the morning shakeout podcast

“So in the classical tradition they often ask the question of what role athletics can play in the good life. And typically the way it is described is that it has a role in character development in sort of helping us to be more well-ordered such that we can flourish longterm. But they also express a concern that if you are having an outsized focus on athletics that it can be bad, both physically for your constitution, but also for your character. There are ways of participating in sport that don’t form you in the right way and so I’ve wondered about my relationship with running in terms of the sort of life that I want to have, in terms of the sort of life that’s suited to what it means to be a human and flourish, and I just don’t think sports has been an unqualified good in my own formation. I mean, there are certain qualities that are reinforced that are not…I mean, envy is the big example that I give, or a kind of intemperance, having an outsized affection for sport that crowds out other features of my life or doesn’t make me a good member of my community. So, in asking the question of what flourishing is, what a good life would be constituted of, I’ve started to inspect the role that running has on my life and I don’t know how well—at least in the dosage that I do it in in ultrarunning—I don’t know if it really supports that kind of life.” I’ve been wanting to have this conversation with Sabrina Little for a while now and I’ll just say this: It was awesome. Sabrina is an amazing human being. She’s a wife a new mom, she’s a full-time professor of Philosophy and the Humanities at Morehead State University in Kentucky, she writes my favorite column for iRunFar called The Examined Run, and she’s also a heck of runner in her own right: Sabrina has won 5 U.S. titles, she’s represented the U.S. five times at international championships, she was the silver medalist at the 2013 world 24-hour championships, helping the U.S. win a team gold at that event, she previously held American records for 24 hours and 200K, and she finished 12th at the 2018 Trail World Championships in Spain to help the U.S. team take a bronze medal. In this conversation, we talked about how running came into her life, running her first 100 miler as a freshman in college as a grand gesture to her mom, who was in remission from ovarian cancer at the time, and how she eventually got into competitive ultrarunning and representing the U.S. at an international level. We also talked a bit of philosophy, why that field of study piqued her interest in college, how and where philosophy and running intersect for Sabrina, including how she “re-ordered her loves” after becoming a mom a little over a year ago, how she thinks about competition, and a lot more.This episode is brought to you by:— New Balance. The new FuelCell Rebel v2 is my new favorite running shoe. It’s super super light, it’s incredibly responsive, and offers good protection underfoot. I think it’s the perfect workout shoe and I’ll be using it all the time. Check it out today at newbalance.com and consider adding a pair to your rotation today.— Goodr: If you want to support the podcast and treat yourself to a pair of goodr sunglasses, head over to goodr.com/MARIO or enter the code MARIO at checkout for 15% off your order. Look good, run goodr!Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-173-with-sabrina-little/Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“So much of groundedness is about building a life that you want to live in right now and those things are often in opposition to striving, because when you’re striving, when you’re really going toward something, it’s very easy to forget about watering the roots, tending to the base, whatever it is. But when you accomplish or you fail to do that thing, if you haven’t been taking care of all this other stuff, then there’s still nothing there and you still fill empty. So you could also argue it’s just about really focusing on what is there right now, what’s in front of you, and it’s not to say you become a zen monk that’s totally content. I would argue that it’s still great to strive but the texture of the striving changes, so instead of striving from a pace of compulsion—‘I need to win this and if I don’t I’m a failure’ or ‘I need to hit the best-seller list and if I don’t something’s wrong’—it’s much more that this is a great goal but it’s a great goal because all the steps I’m gonna have to take to reach it are going to really fulfill me and give my life happiness, joy, and growth.” Brad Stulberg is a an author, speaker, and executive coach who researches, writes, and coaches on human performance, sustainable success, and well-being. His work has appeared in Outside magazine, The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Wired, and other publications. He’s the best-selling author of Peak Performance and the Passion Paradox, both of which he co-wrote with Steve Magness, and he’s got a new book coming out on September 7 called The Practice of Groundedness, which explores the foundation of peak performance, true wellbeing, and sustainable success. This conversation centers around Brad’s new book and we dive into topics that I think are relevant to many of us: the pursuit of high achievement that seems pervasive in our society today, the fallacy of “arriving” in life and how that gets the best of so many of us, what Brad calls heroic individualism or an ongoing game of one-upmanship against ourselves and others, the differences between real vulnerability and performative vulnerability, and a lot more.Pre-order Brad's new book here before September 7, 2021 to get exclusive bonuses: https://www.bradstulberg.com/tpogpreorderThis episode is brought to you by:— Runderwear. Runderwear’s mission is to eliminate the discomfort caused by ill-fitting underwear and to create seamless performance running underwear, base wear, bras and socks that are supremely comfortable, moisture wicking and chafe-free. Take a look at Runderwear.com and use the code TMS20 at checkout for 20% off now through September 15. — Precision Hydration. I’ve been a devotee to PH products for the past 4 years and my last few marathons wouldn’t have gone as well without them. Go to precisionhydration.com and take their free online Sweat Test to get a personalized hydration strategy to test in training. As a listener of the show you can get 15% off your first order of electrolytes that match how you sweat by using the code TMS15 when checking out.Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-172-with-brad-stulberg/Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“I think for me it ties back to seeing myself as more than just a runner but [as] a complete person in mind, body, soul. I’ve just found that when all the parts of who I am are aligned and enjoying everything then really the results, they’re going to come and you’re more patient for them—you’re not dependent on them to have this joy and this fun time being out there putting in the work. In my opinion, that become way more important than the fact that you’re going to go and hit these certain paces and you’re going to put in this certain amount of training to equal this sort of result. So there was definitely a transition there for me, where it’s like, ‘Hey, if I have found complete joy in this whole process, then the results will come.’ Some day they’re going to come, some day I’m going to have that breakthrough, but at least I’m already now enjoying where I’m at today.” I’ve been taking a brief break from recording new episodes of the podcast these past two weeks but don’t worry, starting next week we will have a fresh episode coming out every Monday through the end of the year, so be sure to stay tuned for those. That said, we’re trying something new this week and for the first time, I’m re-publishing an episode from the early days of the podcast: this one is a conversation with mi tocayo, Mario Mendoza, who I sat down with almost exactly three years ago on Episode 29. It’s one of my favorite episodes, and also one of the most under-appreciated ones, which is why I’m re-sharing it. Mario is a five-time national champion on the trails, a four-time USATF trail runner of the year, he’s won races all over the globe, finished top-10 twice at world championships, set world records on the treadmill, and accomplished all kinds of things on the competitive side of the sport. Beyond that, however, he’s one of the most genuine people I’ve ever met, we really connected over this conversation, and have kept in close touch ever since. Full disclosure: I started coaching Mario a few months ago but this episode was recorded years before we had a coach-athlete relationship.Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-re-run-with-mario-mendozaSign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“The hardest step in anything is to start—that’s the hardest step. The second hardest thing is to stay with it. That sounds really obvious but I think keeping those two things in mind—you can’t stay with it until you start, so 1. Just get started, and then 2. When you stay with it, you’ll have days when you want to quit, and you’re like, ‘Is this worth it?’ whether it’s podcasting, whether it’s continuing on with the run, whether it’s being in a relationship. Staying with it is hard but that’s the second hardest part and you’ve got to keep working through that and I think having people who can help you with that, whether it’s in a mentorship role, whether it’s a training partner, or a partner, find those people, because I think it’s a lot easier to get through things—whatever it is—when you’ve got support from others.”Trying something a little different this week: I’m sharing a special crossover episode of the Grounded Podcast with Dinée Dorame featuring me as her guest. Dinée asked me questions no one has ever asked me in an interview before. We talked about my obsession with basketball, the early days of my journalism and coaching careers, diversity and inclusion in the running industry, and a lot more. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope that you will too. You may remember Dinée from back on Episode 145 of the morning shakeout podcast, which came out earlier this year right before she launched her show, and I recommend checking that one out or revisiting it if you haven’t already. Dinée and I got connected late last year through the Tracksmith fellowship program, I’ve been mentoring her over the past 8 months or so on her own podcast journey, and she’s become like a younger sister to me—I think I’ve learned more from her than she has from me and she’s someone I respect and admire so much.Dinée’s podcast helps fill a huge gap in the running podcast space: Every week she explores the intersection between running, culture, land and community through long-form conversations with runners of all backgrounds and levels. You can find it in all the usual places you listen to podcasts if you search for the Grounded Podcast with Dinée Dorame, and you can also follow the show on Instagram and Twitter @groundedpod. She’s had some awesome guests thus far, including Meb Keflezighi, Jordan Marie Daniel, Ric and Nell Rojas, and my personal favorite: Billy Mills. Dinee’s voice is important. I am so proud of the work she’s doing and the impact it’s making in the running industry.Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/crossover-episode-mario-fraioli-on-the-grounded-podcast-with-dinee-dorameSign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“A lot of athletes—especially when things are going really well—the last thing they want to do is take a break, even if their goal race is in the rearview. Trust me on this: You want to take your breaks as seriously as your training. It’s much better to take a planned break and be a little grumpy about it at the beginning than be forced to take a break sometime down the road because you’re injured, burned out, sick, overtrained, whatever it may be. I see this all the time, not only with athletes that I work with but people who reach out to me with questions, and people I train with—when things are going good, you want to keep them going, but we’re human beings. It doesn’t matter how experienced you are, how good you are, we all need breaks. You need breaks to absorb training, you need breaks to shut things down mentally as much as physically, especially if you’re someone who’s doing hard workouts and long runs and always building toward the next goal. That takes a lot of mental and emotional energy—you can’t be on all the time, you’ve got to shut it off.”This week on the podcast I’m answering listener questions in the second Ask Mario Anything episode of 2021. (You can check out the first one here.) On the other side of the mic for this one—once again—is sponsorship director, Chris Douglas. We got some good questions about about me running Boston in the fall, the importance of taking breaks in training, the controversy around Timothy Olson’s recent FKT on the PCT, channeling my own passion for running into a creative pursuit, what information you should include in your running log, and a lot more. This episode is brought to you by:— New Balance. The new FuelCell Rebel v2 is my new favorite running shoe. It’s super super light, it’s incredibly responsive, and offers good protection underfoot. I think it’s the perfect workout shoe and I’ll be using it all the time. Check it out today at newbalance.com and consider adding a pair to your rotation today.— Goodr: If you want to support the podcast and treat yourself to a pair of goodr sunglasses, head over to goodr.com/MARIO or enter the code MARIO at checkout for 15% off your order. Look good, run goodr!Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-171--ask-mario-anything/Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“I think it’s because we’re always measuring ourselves—everything we do is measured. You go out for an easy run, you see your pace, you compare it to how fast you ran yesterday. You go to a race, you finish 10th, or you’re a minute off your PB—or you PB by a minute and you’re ecstatic. You’re always comparing yourself to who you were yesterday and who you want to be in the future. And then while you’re comparing yourself to you, you’re also comparing yourself to other people who are doing the same things that you do. You see so and so run amazing and say, ‘Oh, that’s great,’ but [then] you ask yourself, ‘Why am I not running amazing?’ You’re just always asking yourself these questions and I think measuring yourself in that way really leads you to…yeah, it’s not to prescribe too much self worth to the numbers. And just being like, ‘OK, if I could just run 2:10 in the marathon I’ll be happier,” and it doesn’t feel that way because then you run 2:10 and you were fifth and somebody else ran 2:09 or whatever, so it’s hard—it’s just the nature of our sport is that we’re always measuring ourselves against each other and ourselves, and if you’re not in a good place with that you can kind of go down a rabbit hole.” Noah Droddy is one of my favorite people in the sport and it was a treat to have him back on the podcast. Our last conversation was almost exactly 3 years ago on Episode 23 so be sure to give that one a listen if you haven’t already. Noah is a blue-collar as they come and that’s part of what I love about him. The Division 3 alum from Depauw University in Indiana ran 2:09:09 at The Marathon Project last December, making him the ninth-fastest American marathoner of all-time. He lives and trains in Boulder, Colorado with the Roots Running Project, which, as we talked about in this episode, has done more with less than any other elite level training group in the U.S. In addition to being a great athlete, Noah is also a big fan of the sport! We recorded this episode just a few days ago on Friday and spent the first few minutes of the show talking about the first day of action at the Olympic Games in Tokyo. From there, Noah told me why he’s at an interesting point of his professional running career right now, what it was like to lose sponsorship after having a breakthrough race last fall, how he’s thinking about the place competitive running holds in his life right now and moving forward, and a lot more.This episode is brought to you by:— New Balance. The new FuelCell Rebel v2 is my new favorite running shoe. It’s super super light, it’s incredibly responsive, and offers good protection underfoot. I think it’s the perfect workout shoe and I’ll be using it all the time. Check it out today at newbalance.com and consider adding a pair to your rotation today.— Goodr: If you want to support the podcast and treat yourself to a pair of goodr sunglasses, head over to goodr.com/MARIO or enter the code MARIO at checkout for 15% off your order. Look good, run goodr!Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-170-with-noah-droddy/Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“If you get me talking about things that happened in college or I think about races in college I can just spiral in my own head and get frustrated and kind of disappointed with myself in the way things turned out. It’s definitely in the back of my mind. I would like to prove to myself that I do belong, whether it be at the NCAA level or the professional level, I just believe inherently that I am talented enough to do it. I just have to be patient and let it kind of come to me rather than go searching for it…I think Peachtree, although it’s just one result and doesn’t mean all that much in the grand scheme of the running world, it has meant a lot for me and validating what I’ve been doing for the last year and half, two years.” This is Fred Huxham’s first podcast and I am super excited to introduce him to you. Fred, who is 25 years old, just placed second at the Peachtree Road Race on July 4 in 28:45. That race was the 10K national championships and he finished just two seconds behind Sam Chelanga and a few places ahead of Galen Rupp, Jake Riley, and Abdi Abdirahman, the three men who will represent the United States at the Olympic Marathon in Tokyo. In this conversation, we talked about Peachtree, how it went down, and what that performance means to Fred at this point of his career. He told me how he ended up in New Hampshire, training with Ben True and Dan Curts, and what the next few months look like for him from a competitive standpoint. We talked about his high school career at Redwood in California and his relationship with coaches Laura and Jake Schmitt—both of whom I’ve had on this podcast, so check out those episodes if you haven’t already. Fred described the process of overcoming periods of frustration and disappointment during his collegiate career, explained why he’s got a chip on his shoulder, how he uses that to his advantage, and a lot more.Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-169-with-fred-huxham/Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“What the marathon experience—that first marathon experience—did for me, was it gave me a perspective shift on life, which, wow, that sounds really lofty hearing myself say it back, but truly, everything was like so muddied and I couldn’t pull myself out. I had gone to really good schools and done all of the things I was supposed to do but I couldn’t pull myself out of feeling terrible and feeling like I was a failure and there was no blueprint of, ‘What am I supposed to do with my life?’ But the marathon gave me this very concrete training plan—like in 16 weeks, if you do this, you will get this—and never in my life outside of school had something been so prescriptive and easy. I mean, [it was] really difficult because you have to do that work but if even a stranger can promise me that if I do this work and I get that, then like f*ck yeah, I’m gonna do this. So I stuck to that training plan like it was my bible and what I saw was that it wasn’t magic but these physical challenges that I was doing really were very much tied to my mental ability to push through it and to stay in places of discomfort…You’re in a place of discomfort but you're moving through it—you don't get stuck in the place of discomfort, so that was a really powerful lesson for me.” I’ve been waiting a while to have this conversation with Alison Mariella Désir and it did not disappoint. Alison wears many hats: she’s a mom, athlete, and coach. She works as the Director of Sports Advocacy and an Athlete Advisor for Oiselle, she’s a co-chair of the Running Industry Diversity Coalition, co-founder of Harlem run, a community organizer, and a lot more. In this episode, Alison told me about her relationship with running, the ways in which it’s evolved over the years, and how she views her place in the sport today. We discussed how feeling out of place as a runner led her to create communities where people feel like they belong, we talked about the lack of diversity in the running industry and the work she’s doing to help change that, as well we her upcoming book, The Unbearable Whiteness of Running, due out in 2022. We also talked about identity and extroversion, competitiveness and community building, and a lot more.Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-168-with-alison-mariella-desir/Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“One day we had a bad basketball practice. The coach was pissed off at us. He literally made us run the cross-country course as punishment. I was the worst player on the JV basketball team but I came back first when we had to run 3 miles in cross country and I just said, ‘Hey, maybe I should switch sports instead of fighting to be bad.’ And so I switched to running and running seemed to be a place where an obsessive personality and an infinite amount of work payed some benefits—and it did for me. I don't think it's quite as important now as I did 50 years ago but there's no replacement for hard work, is there?” Amby Burfoot is a legend in running and someone I’ve looked up to and admired since I first got my start in the sport over 20 years ago. A native of Connecticut, Amby won the 1968 Boston Marathon when he was a senior at Wesleyan University. After his competitive running career ended, he worked at Runner’s World, where he spent 25 years as an editor before retiring in 2012. Amby is still running strong—and writing about running regularly—as he nears the age of 75 and I just have so much respect for everything he’s done and is still doing in the sport.There’s a lot that we covered in this conversation. We talked about Amby’s competitive running career, how he got started, and what it was like to win the Boston Marathon while he was still in college. He told me about his obsessive personality and the different forms it’s taken over the course of his life. We discussed what he’s up to now, his longevity as a runner and writer, and continuing to pursue your passions as you age. Amby told me about his time at Runner’s World, he shared his thoughts on the evolution of the running media landscape over the past 2-3 decades, and a lot more.This episode is brought to you by:— Tracksmith. Tracksmith crafts performance running apparel, inspiring publications, and distinct experiences that allow runners to indulge in the sport’s rich culture. Tracksmith is offering new customers $15 off your first purchase of $75+. Just use code MARIO15 when you check out at tracksmith.com/mario.— Goodr: If you want to support the podcast and treat yourself to a pair of goodr sunglasses, head over to goodr.com/MARIO or enter the code MARIO at checkout for 15% off your order. Look good, run goodr!Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-167-with-amby-burfoot/Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“When I was out there, baking along the lake where it was really hot, all I was really trying to do was just keep moving forward, and whatever that entailed. So I was just looking ahead to the next aid station—like, what can I do to keep moving forward? It really became that simple, which, for as busy as my brain can be sometimes with thinking, is surprising because I really didn’t think much beyond that because I just knew how hot it was, and how else was I going to get to the finish line? I just have to move forward…It’s not always—I think we forget this as competitive athletes that all have goals—but it’s not always about the result too, it’s just sometimes how you do the thing and get across the line. We always learn infinitely more from the struggles than we do from our successes.” We are back with a new episode of the podcast after a brief hiatus and my guest this week is a really special one: it’s my favorite person in the entire world, my best friend and biggest supporter, my wife, Christine Gould.Christine has been one of my most requested guests since I started the show 3-1/2 years ago and you’ll finally get to hear from her this week. Christine recently completed Ironman Coeur d’Alene in Idaho (it was her first swing at that distance in 14 years), and this was a good opportunity to debrief with her about that experience—why she signed up for the event, how it went, and what she learned from it—as well as to learn more about her and how she operates, us as a couple and how we operate, and a lot more.This episode is brought to you by:— Tracksmith. Tracksmith crafts performance running apparel, inspiring publications, and distinct experiences that allow runners to indulge in the sport’s rich culture. Tracksmith is offering new customers $15 off your first purchase of $75+. Just use code MARIO15 when you check out at tracksmith.com/mario.— Goodr: If you want to support the podcast and treat yourself to a pair of goodr sunglasses, head over to goodr.com/MARIO or enter the code MARIO at checkout for 15% off your order. Look good, run goodr!Complete show notes: https://themorningshakeout.com/podcast-episode-166-with-christine-gould/Sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday morning: www.themorningshakeout.com/subscribe/Support the morning shakeout on Patreon: www.patreon.com/themorningshakeout Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.