The Covert Narcissism Podcast

This special extra-long episode is an incredibly helpful interview with Ross Rosenberg. We talk about his book, The Human Magnet Syndrome, the draw that happens between narcissistic people and their victims, a new look at codependency, and how to begin that healing journey. What starts off as the codependent’s dream “soul mate” almost always transforms into their nightmare “cellmate.” Ross Rosenberg, M.Ed., LCPC, CADC, is a psychotherapist, educator, expert witness, and celebrated author. He's a global thought leader and renowned clinical expert in codependency, trauma, pathological narcissism, narcissistic abuse, and addictions. Ross's pioneering codependency contributions are responsible for the sweeping theoretical and practical updates and a treatment program that permanently resolves it. His YouTube channel best illustrates his global impact with 22 million views and 231K subscribers, and his Human Magnet Syndrome books (150K sold in 12 languages). In addition, Ross has been featured on national TV and radio and is a regular radio and podcast guest. https://www.selfloverecovery.com/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?” Now that I have shown how I will treat every word that comes out of your mouth, you better just shut up. I’m better than you at manipulating things, turning things against you, controlling you. This is my territory. This in a marriage! So condescending. So hurtful. It’s no wonder that we quit talking to them. So many victims shut down and go grey rock and don’t even understand why. They don’t even know what that is, but do it out of survival. So what should those rights be? What do they look like in a healthy relationship? I re-wrote them: "You have the right to be you. Anything you say can and will be heard and valued. You have the right to speak your mind. If you do not know how to speak your mind, I will wait patiently and eagerly to hear your thoughts. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, are you open to speaking with me?" --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

I often get asked: Why did this happen to me? How did I get here? How do I prevent it from ever happening again? How do I heal from this? These are excellent questions and they are very related to each other. Why did this happen to me has a whole lot to do with how do I prevent it from ever happening again. How did I get here is tied closely with how do I heal from this. You need to know about Radical Personal Responsibility - Your special weapon that is unreachable for narcissistic individuals. Taking control of your own internal world is absolutely one of your greatest tools and something that covert narcissists can never do!! I want to explain this tool to you and then teach you how to use it. The first step is to become aware of your autopilot! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

What a privilege it is to introduce to you Debbie Mirza! She is best-selling author of the book "The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist," one of the first books I ever read that opened my eyes to the nightmare that I was living. This book is an amazing resource for gaining awareness and understanding of covert narcissism. Her second book "Worthy of Love' presents a gentle and restorative path to healing after narcissistic abuse. Debbie is a beautiful testimony that healing is possible and thriving is obtainable. She is currently working on her 3rd and potentially final book in this mini-series. I look forward to reading that book as soon as it is available. Debbie has such a gentle and tender heart for survivors of narcissistic abuse. Her gentle spirit and empowering strength are so encouraging and inspiring. She shows us all that it is possible to stand up for and protect yourself and yet maintain that kind and compassionate self that we all desire to be. To learn more about Debbie's work, visit www.debbiemirza.com June 1 is World Narcissistic Abuse Awareness Day. In honor of that day, for the entire month of June, I am offering all individual sessions with at a discounted rate of $99 per hour. We can meet once or we can meet as many times as you want. If you would like to take advantage of this offer, shoot me an email at renee@cnglifecoaching.com I also want to take a quick moment and remind you that my next round of group sessions is beginning on May 31. I only have a few spots left in these groups. You can choose between Tuesday mornings or Saturday mornings. Each group runs for 6 weeks. We meet for 2 hours on Zoom each week. You receive handouts and worksheets each week. Each group consists of 10 group members, who just like you are struggling through a relationship with a covert narcissist. It is incredibly empowering to work in a group setting where you receive so much validation for the pain, confusion and doubt that you are experiencing. If you want one of these few spots remaining, please do not hesitate to contact me. These groups will fill up. renee@covertnarcissism.com or renee@cnglifecoaching.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

Have you ever tried to figure out someone’s true intentions? Have you been suspicious of the intentions behind one’s behaviors? Have you ever asked yourself, Yeah but what do they really want? Covert narcissists hide their true intentions. You can feel this when you talk with them. Something just doesn’t feel quite right. It doesn’t feel genuine. Everything they do and say has a hidden agenda. What is that agenda? What are their true intentions? The true intentions of a covert narcissistic person are: to rely on others to build them up, to build their self-esteem to earn compliments and recognition to gain admiration and the feeling of being important to confirm that they are better or higher in status than you to create confusion in others so they can maintain their superior confidence over your obvious inferiority to win your apologies and continue to boost their superiority to validate that they are a good person How do we know this? How can you identify it in your own situation? What do you do about it? To join our upcoming group coaching session, reach out to me at renee@covertnarcissism.com or renee@cnglifecoaching.com For more information on the group sessions, visit https://www.covertnarcissism.com/group-session --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

Since you are here listening to this, you have probably done some amount of research into narcissism. By now, you have probably run into the word projection as it relates to narcissism. A relationship that is built on projections and expectations is a relationship that is doomed to struggle. I talk about this a lot in my group coaching program, but I have realized that I have never done a podcast episode on it. It is definitely time! Let’s define what projection is. It is the process of misinterpreting what is on the inside of us as coming from the outside of us. Most people refer to projection as what the narcissistic person does, and they certainly do. However, projection is not limited to them. It affects all of us. Good people project their goodness onto others and bad people project their badness. Good people expect good behavior from others and bad people expect bad behavior from others. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

I was SO good at sweeping things under the rug! I could take any huge bad things that happened and just make it disappear. Do you know what I mean? Have you ever experienced this? Maybe you have heard this phrase before and don’t really know what it’s talking about. I am going to explain it right here and give you personal examples from my world. I recently realized that the broom I used the most actually has a title. Here’s what I mean. Sweeping things under the rug refers to all the times that we make excuses for someone’s bad behavior. We don’t hold them accountable for what they have said or done. We push it aside and move on. Some refer to this as forgive and forget. We might try to pretend it never happened. We convince ourselves that this person didn’t mean it or was having a bad day or any other excuse we can come up with. Well, my broom that I recently discovered was that All marriages have problems. I could erase any bad behavior with this broom, sweep it right away. Whoosh, under the rug it goes. What broom are you using?? --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

I can’t keep living like this. I’ve tried everything I know to try. Things might get better for a little while, but it never lasts. I continuously find myself right back in the same place. Over and over trying to explain how I feel and everything is always flipped back at me. I’ve been doing this for years, or even decades, and I just can’t do it anymore. I’ve tried everything I can try. I’m damaged. My kids are damaged. I’m done. I want out, now what? That very thought can be intensely overwhelming! Getting out of the relationship can seem impossible. How will I support myself? What about our kids? How will the family all react? How will he/she react? How do I tell them? What am I thinking? I can’t possibly do this. It is very easy to stay in the relationship because it seems like the simpler answer. Even the thought of trying to leave can send us into a whirlwind. Heart racing, stomach feeling like it is trying to turn inside out, body tense, mind racing. How can I even be considering this? I know these feelings all too well. I never thought in a million years that I would be taking those steps. I never saw it coming. But I just could not stay. I had tried everything I could possibly try. I didn’t have anything left in my tank. And I could not continue this way. Do I file first and then tell him? Do I move out first? Do I tell him first? Do I pack bags? Do I tell him to leave? What do I do first? There are so many different ways that all this happens. There is no magical “right” answer. The path is different in every situation and at the end of the day is not the most important piece. The important part is that you found your voice and your strength. They are going to be upset no matter how you tell them. In person, by phone, write a letter. Say it this way or that way. It truly does not matter. Do you really think that you can find the magical way where they will not be angry? So do what feels right to you. You have spent enough time and energy trying to figure out how to not upset them. You have tap danced around them enough. Email me at renee@covertnarcissism.com or renee@cnglifecoaching.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

Can you get PTSD or CPTSD from a relationship with a covert narcissist 100% yes!! Let’s talk about PTSD and CPTSD in relation to narcissist abuse. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is trauma response triggered from a single terrifying event, such as: natural disaster home intrusion car accident serious injury Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is trauma responses developed from ongoing or chronic trauma. It is prolonged traumatic events, such as: ongoing abuse childhood abuse domestic violence kidnapping, enslavement prisoner of war The majority of people exposed to trauma do not develop long-term post-traumatic stress disorder. It is important to get help and support to prevent our normal stress reactions from developing into PTSD. A vital piece of this is the deep human need to feel safe. You need emotional safety. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism

I would never have said that abandonment was a concern for me in my marriage. He was never going to leave me. He would never run off with another woman. I knew that he would always be home in the evenings and on the weekends. Other people talked about the issue of abandonment. Some narcissists do run off with affairs. They discard their victim simply to get another one. But that didn’t apply in my situation. So I really didn’t think that abandonment was an issue for me. Until one day, I opened my eyes and realized I was wrong. I was absolutely dealing with abandonment. He abandoned me within our home every single day. He completely isolated himself constantly. He lost himself in video games and movies for hours on end. This was every evening after work, every weekend, every holiday, every vacation, no matter where we were or who we were with. He disengaged from our lives. He checked out completely again and again and again! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/covertnarcissism/support   I am Renee Swanson, and I help people recover from covert narcissistic abuse. Are you tired of feeling isolated and alone?  Are you searching for people who get it?  Are you confused, reactive and unsure what to do?  Are you running in circles in your mind? Are you worried for your kids and the effect this is having on them?  Do you want to know how not to raise another narcissist in this world? I can help you! I offer both group and individual coaching, which you can find at www.covertnarcissism.com   Renee Swanson, Certified Coach and Advocate for Victims of Covert Narcissistic Abuse http://www.covertnarcissism.com https://www.tiktok.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.youtube.com/@cngreneeswanson https://www.facebook.com/renee.covertnarcissism