In this episode, John Price speaks with music therapist, Jennifer Townsend, about music and music therapy. We discuss the definition of music therapy, the biological aspects of performing and listening to music, how concepts from physics have informed the connecting and healing processes of music therapy, the uses of music therapy as an aid in brain development following a trauma, relationship bonding when coming together on the “beat”, and other topics. Jennifer offers the listener stories of the healing aspects of music within populations ranging from those affected by acute psychosis, and non-responsiveness, she explains the rapport building dimensions of music in relationship and notes how music can reduce anxiety amongst those who have been traumatized. While listening to this episode, one thing becomes clear: that there are profound reasons why many of us will spend more of our time and money on music than sex and drugs (medical and otherwise). Bio: Jennifer Townsend, MMT, MT-BC, is the Program Manager for Music Therapy at Houston Methodist. In this capacity, she has overseen the growth of music therapy across the system of Houston Methodist hospitals, led research initiatives in music therapy and music medicine, and provides clinical supervision to the Houston Methodist creative arts therapy team of eight. She has published articles on technology in music therapy, music therapy in epilepsy treatment, music therapy in NICU, and published a chapter on Medically Fragile Children in Guidelines for Music Therapy Practice in Pediatrics. Website: https://www.musictherapy.org http://www.cbmt.org Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Band of the week: Grace Kali https://gracekali.com https://twitter.com/thegracekali Music page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/grace-kali/1396993208 https://soundcloud.com/gracekali https://www.amazon.com/Sign-Times-Grace-Kali/dp/B07DMGDTY7 Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

This episode begins with Matthew and I exploring his history growing up with the fundamentalist wing of religion in Christianity. Matt’s story is one of coming to terms and wrestling with the religion of his youth and through that process asking challenging to grapple with questions. We discuss power structures within and between groups ranging from economically bound systems to geographically connected and disconnected networks. Matt’s dissertation looked at trauma and the narrative that five women maintained about their religious and philosophical worldview following overwhelming trauma. Matt offers a perspective on religion that is often not included in many religious and academic circles, atheist or theist alike. Bio: Matt is currently on staff at St. Paul’s United Methodist Church in Houston Texas as the Senior Associate Pastor, is the Co-Managing Director of projectCURATE, a social action and racial equity non-profit, Executive Director of Iconoclast Artists, a creative arts program in Houston and Galveston’s urban schools that has over 600 weekly participants and is Assistant Professor of Recovery Ministry at Fuller Theological Seminary. Prior to this he was on faculty at Duke Divinity School as professor of Practical Theology and Community Development. In 2013, he completed a two-year postdoctoral fellowship at the University of Cambridge’s Psychology and Religion Research Group (PRRG) where he explored redemptive narratives and models of social justice movements rooted in religious communities. He received his Masters of Divinity from Fuller Theological Seminary and completed his PhD at Texas Tech University in 2010. His dissertation explored how women construct alternative narratives of redemption from years of sustained trauma and abuse. While at Texas Tech he was the Associate Director at The Center for the Study of Addiction, responsible for the replication model helping to establish collegiate recovery communities in campuses across the United States. From 1996-2008 he was Associate Pastor of Houston’s Chapelwood United Methodist Church and founding pastor of Mercy Street. Matt is married to his best friend Michele and they have 3 crazy boys: Miguel (15), Lucas (14) and Gabriel (11). Website: https://www.projectcurate.org http://www.stpaulshouston.org/staff/ Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Band of the week: Ghostface Killah and BADBADNOTGOOD https://www.facebook.com/GhostfaceKillahOfficial/ http://badbadnotgood.com Music page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/sour-soul/952769969 Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

This conversation explores the research into religion. Ken began his academic search when he started to ask deeper question about the nature of human experience such as morality, values, how people can live better lives, and he is a skeptic and seeking to ground his work in empirical research. Dr. Pargament discusses the relationship between attachment and religion - how one’s developmental history and environment interrelate and often informs one’s relationship with “God.” Dr. Parament’s work involves looking at each person’s religious experience and asking them questions about the nature of that relationship to the sacred in their lives. How have they come to relate to the divine – theist and atheist alike? His research helps us understand not only the nature of the relationship but also the outcome of the relationship. One question he asks is: How has one's relationship to the divine impacted how that individual copes with suffering? “From a talk presented at Harvard: Empirical studies indicate that people attribute sacred qualities to many aspects of life, such as relationships, nature, work, virtues, and the body. Perceptions of sacredness have important implications for health and well-being. A growing body of research indicates that people are more likely to: (a) organize their lives around sacred goals and values; (b) preserve and protect aspects of life they hold sacred; and (c) invest more of their resources into and derive greater satisfaction and meaning from sanctified objects. However, perceptions of sacredness can be problematic when: (a) people experience the loss or violation of what they hold sacred; (b) when they imbue inappropriate objects (e.g., drugs, violence, despots) with sacred qualities; and (c) when people are intolerant of divergent views of the sacred.” (https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/rshm/event/dr-kenneth-pargament-sacred-matters-spirituality-vital-aspect-health-and-well-being). Bio: Dr. Pargament's nationally and internationally known research addresses religious beliefs and health. His current research program addresses how elderly people who struggle with their religious beliefs and hold negative perceptions about their relationships with God and life meaning have an increased risk of death, even after controlling for physical and mental health and demographic characteristics. He also studies the process by which people create perceptions about the sanctity of aspects of their life activities and the beneficial effects of "sanctification" for individual and interpersonal well-being. A strong emphasis on this work is how individuals and couples "sanctify" their marriage and how that sanctification is a strong predictor of marital quality and stability. Dr. Pargament won the 2000 Virginia Staudt Sexton Mentoring Award from the American Psychological Association for his generous work in encouraging both faculty, undergraduate, and graduate research in the psychology of religion. Website: https://www.bgsu.edu/arts-and-sciences/center-for-family-demographic-research/about-cfdr/research-affiliates/kenneth-i-pargament.html Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Band of the week: The Hundred Inevitables https://www.facebook.com/thehundredinevitables/ Music page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/decade-of-downtime/1017437376 Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

In this episode, Henry Richardson, owner, and CEO of DEFINE body and mind, and I sit down to explore how to run what he refers to as a “spiritual business.” He uses terms such as “appreciative inquiry” and speaks of breathing life into not only a bottom line but also the inner and outer community of the business. He states that how the model of the business is structured will influence how each employee views their presence at the business, which then impacts how the customer and the community the business serves, feels about themselves and their interactions with the business. Henry outlines how to make this possible, and with a successful and growing business of 23 facilities in the U.S. and one open in Dubai, along with two graduate degrees, one MBA from Rice University and another master's degree from University of Pennsylvania in positive psychology, he can speak to both how he manages the business and how his story informs his higher purpose. Website: https://definebody.com Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Band of the week: John Evans https://johnevansband.com Music page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/polyester/1103330346 Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

This conversation favors the irrational over the rational. Kate has made it her mission, both in her professional life and personal life to study the pathways on which people travel through their lives. She states, “The paths that people are called to are often socially unacceptable.” She is referencing how often each of us has to sacrifice either a part of ourselves for the security of the outer world, or the security of the outer world so that one can “live on the edge” and discover who they are and what really matters to that individual. When Kate was 4 years old, a poisonous snake bit her, a story that had not entered into her awareness until she was much older and in analysis herself. Once she recalled the event she began to have dreams that included snake motifs and she began to study rites of passage, initiation, and rituals that people had been writing about throughout human history. We discuss the seven aspects she identifies and articulates through her book. Kate has made it her mission to help people place their struggles and conflicts into meaningful narratives. And, how is one to know the direction that the narrative is providing? Bio: Kate Burns is a Jungian analyst with a private practice in Houston, Texas. She earned a bachelor’s degree in mathematics, she worked as a geophysicist until a downturn in the oil industry sent her back to school for an MBA from Rice University. A desire to explore spiritual issues led her to pursue a master’s degree in counseling, followed by studies at the International School of Analytical Psychology, Zurich. She has taught classes at the Jung Center in Houston since 2005 and has devoted herself to the practice of yoga since 2000. She serves on the board of directors for Jungians in Training Zurich, an organization raising awareness about C.G. Jung, his life and work. Kate is the author of "Paths to Transformation: From Initiation to Liberation and "Soul's Desire to Become New" in Jung's Red Book for Our Time, volume 2. Website: Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Band of the week: Lauren Fine Music page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/lauren-fine/30889026 Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

As a scientist, Tom’s insight into religion and psychology balances his worldview given that he matriculated through both the sciences and philosophy. He says, that as soon as he began to see the world through a hand-lens, he was sold on physics, biology, entomology, evolution and ecology, and vertebrate zoology, but landed squarely in biology. Tom’s primary area of interest began in complex systems. Access to an electron microscope in the biochemistry lab opened up Tom’s understanding of the microscopic world that is within, around, and through us. He defines “complex systems” and uses this interest to look at religion and psychology. Tom asks why no one can predict what the Dow Jones is going to do tomorrow?” Because the economy is a complex system. Tom’s “naïve love of biology” was the attitude that bade him to leave the early movement in bioengineering, which he deemed as morally repugnant, and sent him onto a path of recollecting his interests in philosophy and religion primarily to the work of Carl Jung, James Hillman, and Henry Corbin. Tom’s love for Hillman is expressed from his seeking psychological diversity and Corbin for his grounding in the imagination. Tom departed from reductive science because his brain began to feel like a machine, cranking out facts, and this landed him in the exploration of the imagination. With this in mind, Tom recognizes the battle within him between the “humanist” and the “scientist.” He believes on some level that adopting an easy pluralism as a means for us each to deal with our tendency toward fundamentalist thinking and behaving. He has been actively undermining the tendency for any human to be motivated by any fundamentalism – which both Henry Corbin and James Hillman do. Good on you, Tom! Bio: Tom graduated from Connecticut College in 1974 with a B.A. in philosophy, magna cum laude, with coursework in history and the history of art, and received the Susanne Langer Award for Achievement in Philosophy. Among the most long-lasting influences were my reading of Hegel, Heidegger, Ernst Cassirer and Erwin Panofsky, as well as the ideas and the teaching of historian F. Edward Cranz. In 1997 Tom resigned from my teaching position and my family moved to Maine. He then began writing in earnest. Tom's first essay on Corbin was among those selected to receive a John Templeton Foundation Exemplary Essay Award in the “Expanding Humanity’s Vision of God” Program in 2000. The following year he was one of six invited speakers at the Eranos Conference in Ascona, Switzerland, where Corbin had been a leading figure for many years. Tom's first book on Corbin, the imagination and related themes was published in 2003, and others followed in 2005, 2007, 2012 and 2015. In 2004 he was invited for the first of a series of lectures for the Temenos Academy in London. In the summer of 2007 Tom was honored to be elected a Fellow of the Temenos Academy. Website: https://sites.google.com/view/tom-cheetham/home?authuser=0 Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Band of the week: Centro-matic Music page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/centro-matic/6557444 Will Johnson: http://www.will-johnson.com Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

The discussion begins with a question about duality in the structure of human consciousness (up/down, sacred/profane, subject/object, yin/yang, psyche/soma). Gary maintains a longstanding interest in explorations of matter and psyche. His book borrows from the conversations and ideas exchanged between Carl Jung and Wolfgang Pauli, one of the men responsible for the discovery of quantum physics. For Jung the opposites are primary therefore the conversation expands on this idea throughout the exchange. Further, Gary defines spiritual and synchronicity, noting how often “science” or the material and spiritual are not interpreted in the way that may be of more service to us all. He provides examples of synchronicity and helps the listener understand the concept of synchronicity. Jung and Pauli converse because of the strange behavior of the electron in the atom and how causality breaks down when we try to understand the individual – less about causality than about a teleological structure of the individual’s life. Technology is questioned and viewed as a phenomenon that has drastically changed the relationship that we have with ourselves and created us into distracted individuals who struggle to sit with ourselves. Gary discusses his understanding of the religious task and defines this process as “learning whom we are born to be and making it real in time and space.” We finish on the subject of numbers and the archetypal background of numbers as qualities and not only quantities. Bio: J. Gary Sparks, B.Sc., M.Div., M.A., is a graduate of Bucknell University in Lewisburg, PA; the Pacific School of Religion in Berkeley, CA; and the C.G. Jung Institute of Zurich, Switzerland. He is a former Peace Corps Korea Volunteer during the early 1970s and co-editor of Edward F. Edinger’s Science of the Soul (2002) and Ego and Self: The Old Testament Prophets (2000). He is widely known in North America for his lectures and seminars on the significance and application of Jungian psychology. Completing eight years of training in 1982, Gary graduated from the C.G. Jung Institute in Zürich and presently makes his living as a Jungian analyst. The Jungian approach observes that the personality spontaneously produces images which symbolically communicate the means of resolving a given impasse and—more generally—the unique life course for each individual in pursuit of meaning and satisfaction to follow. In practical terms the Jungian focus studies dreams as a way of getting at this deeper source of knowledge. Such has been Gary’s enduring fascination: to learn the nature of our symbolic language, to understand its value in the therapeutic setting and to discover its relevance to solving human problems in general. Website: http://www.jgsparks.net Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Band of the week: BADBADNOTGOOD http://badbadnotgood.com Music page: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/badbadnotgood/505464105 Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

19: Tibetan meditation and spiritual practice. A conversation with Alejandro Chaoul In this episode, Alejandro’s knowledge provides a guide rail down into the parts of meditation that are not just about feeling calm and blissful, but the meditation that brings the “gunk” to the surface so that one can be more present with it, work with it and transform it. He discusses how valuable it is that a meditation practice helps increase feelings of relaxation and calm, although he also recognizes that we often need to bring our “shit to the cushion,” and ask difficult questions about where that pain is coming from and how we keep falling for the same patterns. We talk about religion as containing helpful tools, whose value can often be overtaken by people misusing the potential of each tradition. Dr. Chaoul defines enlightenment (if such a thing can be defined) and carefully articulates his words to help the listener begin to understand what it means to be present. Further, he defines spirit and discusses different ways to enhance one’s “spiritual connection,” with one’s life. How we find ways to support our connection with self, world, and the meaning of life. Bio: Dr. Alejandro Chaoul is a Senior Teacher of The 3 Doors, an international organization founded by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche with the goal of transforming lives through meditation. Alejandro has studied in the Tibetan tradition since 1989, and for over 20 years with Yongdzin Tenzin Namdak and Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, completing the 7-year training at Ligmincha Institute in 2000. He also holds a Ph.D. in Tibetan religions from Rice University. Since 1995, he has been teaching meditation classes, and Tibetan Yoga (Tsa Lung & Trul Khor) workshops nationally and internationally under the auspices of Ligmincha Institute and is on the Board of the Ligmincha Texas Institute for the Tibetan meditative and healing arts. In 1999 he began teaching these techniques at the Integrative Medicine Program of the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX, where he holds a faculty position and for the last fifteen years conducts research on the effect of these practices in people with cancer. He is also an associate faculty member at The University of Texas’ McGovern Center for Humanities and Ethics, where he teaches medical students in the areas of spirituality, complementary and integrative medicine, and end of life care. Alejandro is also the author of Chod Practice in the Bon Tradition (Snow Lion, 2009). Website: http://alechaoul.com https://junghouston.org/about-the-center/mind-body-spirit-institute/ Theme music provided by: http://www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week: Bleeding https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/bleeding/20833875?i=20833857 Flickerstick’s music: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/flickerstick/473740 Learn more about this project at: http://www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks

Rabbi Sholklapper may speak and read enough languages to make anyone jealous. This multi-lingual blessing allows him the unique gift of investigating ancient religious texts to deconstruct them and explore meaning lost over the passing of time and that has often been injected with interpretations based in ulterior motives. This fact makes him an exceptionally fun person with whom to share a coffee and conversation. One of the most influential and life-changing moments in Ariel’s life involved his experience of arriving on the scene as a first responder following a bomb exploding on a bus in Israel. This trauma sent him into enough of a blunted state of numbness that he began exploring meditation and mindfulness. He is now a teacher of both. Through this conversation, Ariel answers the question, “What is Judaism?” His answer: that each of us has a divine spark and our lives are about getting closer to that spark. The consequences of this understanding from his perspective is one of the goals of the work: becoming kinder to others, more compassionate, and also more settled, and in life. A necessary and honorable goal indeed. Bio: Rabbi Ariel Sholklapper is a mindfulness practitioner who got his start under the guidance of Rabbis Jeff Roth, James Jacobson Maisels, and Joanna Katz in 2011. Since then he has attended, managed, and facilitated retreats and mindfulness meditation groups all over the world. He was recently appointed Director of the Jewish Mindfulness Center of Houston at Congregation Beth Yeshurun, the largest Conservative Jewish congregation in the United States. He earned a degree in philosophy and Jewish studies at UCLA, was ordained at the Ziegler School of Rabbinic Studies, and holds an MBA in nonprofit management. Learn more about this project at: www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Theme music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week: Fireproof on Mingo Fishtrap’s album “On Time” lyrics and music by Treson Scipio and Roger Blevins Jr. www.mingofishtrap.com

This conversation explores some of the basic foundations for depth psychology; in particular, how paying attention to the body provides a ground for any individual to come to know their intuitive center point. Dr. Nanine Ewing surveys the body and the unconscious and the various pressures on how one should view each of these concepts in today’s culture. Nanine explains “the psychology of beauty” through both her academic study of attractiveness and the body, and also her experience as a woman in a culture that both subtly, and not, so subtlety emphasizes looks, pressuring women to change, alter, and value her looks and presentation. She discusses death and aging with a grace that is contagious. An underlying theme of this conversation is that if we but have these conversations more and more, may we all come to learn the gifts that life, death, aging, and impermanence conceal beneath our initial fears of coming to term with these inevitabilities. Bio: Nanine Ewing, Ph.D., F.A.G.P.A., GGP, L.M.F.T, BC-DMT is a clinical psychologist in private practice in Houston, Texas for the past 33 years. She is a Fellow of the American Group Psychotherapy Association and a Certified Group Psychotherapist and a Dance Movement therapist. She has spoken nationally and internationally on the subjects of nonverbal communication, Jungian theory, Group process, Group dynamics, Psyche and Soma, Countertransference, the Anti-group, and many other topics. She teaches in an alternate training route for dance movement therapists in Embodied Neurobiology for advanced clinical training at Experiential Therapies in Austin, Texas. She has a private practice in Houston, Texas and runs 3 groups a week for clinicians and private clients. She does in depth individual work with a Jungian orientation focusing on dream work and symbolic work in the body and psyche. Her clientele includes a large percentage of her fellow clinicians. She has a Ph.D. in clinical psychology and a Masters in counseling psychology and is a certified Adlerian and has studied hypnotherapy to the consultant level. She believes deeply in the work of the therapist's inner life and has been committed to her own therapy and analysis for the entire spectrum of her clinical work and dedicates herself to encouraging other clinicians to do the same. www.nanineewing.com Learn more about this project at: www.thesacredspeaks.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesacredspeaks/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thesacredspeaks Theme music provided by: www.modernnationsmusic.com Song of the week: Bitta Honey (live) by Mingo Fishtrap www.mingofishtrap.com