

The Mob Mentality Show
The Mob Mentality Show
Chris Lucian and Austin Chadwick discuss all things agile and product development from a mob programming perspective.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 24, 2024 • 54min
How Mob Programming Dissolves the Ego to Boost Team Function: A Conversation with Michael K Sahota
In this insightful episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we sit down with Michael K Sahota to dive deep into the transformative power of **Mob Programming** and **Pair Programming** in dissolving the ego and enhancing team dynamics. Michael shares his unique perspective on how mobbing/pairing can lead to profound psychological shifts, ultimately boosting team function, empathy, and humility.
### Key Highlights:
**Pair/Mob to Dissolve the Ego and Increase Team Function**
- Michael discusses the **primary goal** of a mob or pair session, revealing how it goes beyond just writing code or learning new techniques. It’s about dissolving the individual ego and fostering a collective, empathic mindset that benefits the entire team.
- We explore Michael’s **personal journey** with his ego, offering a candid look at how pairing/mobbing have helped him grow both personally and professionally.
- What is the most **significant outcome** of mobbing/pairing beyond the immediate code or learning? Michael explains how the real magic happens when team members listen to each other and take turns, creating a powerful forcing function for collaboration and psychological safety.
- We dive into the **psychological processes** that occur during mobbing, including the death of "fear-based clinging" and how healing the ego leads to deeper empathy and humility. Michael offers anecdotes on how mobbing helps resolve internal conflicts and improve relationships—both at work and beyond.
- How much time should be allocated for **production** versus focusing on **production capability**? Michael discusses how to strike the right balance between learning and output, avoiding over-indexing on either side.
- A unique **"learning theft"** example highlights why juniors should be prioritized during experiments, while senior developers are encouraged to go last—except when it comes to admitting mistakes, where the inverse applies.
**Pair/Mob for Production Capability and Beyond**
- Michael shares his thoughts on balancing the **development of production capability** with immediate production needs. He explains how overinvesting in production at the expense of capability can destroy long-term results.
- We explore how improving production capability with a solid **ROI** can often yield results within a quarter, but must be continually nurtured through retrospectives and lean thinking.
- Breaking the cycle of **overinvesting in production** under intense pressure is a major challenge for many teams. Michael shares stories of how transparency in communication, both within and outside the team, can help break this cycle.
- Michael introduces the concept of building **culture bubbles** and we share contrasting ideas on how much courage is needed for these bubbles.
- We also discuss the **HIPPO effect** and how mobbing can disrupt this dynamic by emphasizing experimentation and collective decision-making rather than deference to authority.
- Finally, Michael ties it all together by emphasizing the role of **humility**. No one is a flawless expert, and through mobbing/pairing, teams can build a habit of asking for help and embracing the idea that everyone, regardless of experience, has something to learn and improve.
### Why You Should Watch:
This episode is a must-watch for anyone involved in **software development**, team dynamics, or leadership. Whether you're interested in improving psychological safety, fostering team empathy, or enhancing production capability, Michael K Sahota's insights on mobbing and ego dissolution will help you rethink how teams work together. It’s about more than code—it’s about creating a culture of **trust, engagement**, and continuous improvement.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/Wj2hYGMei8s

Sep 17, 2024 • 49min
The Nuances behind SRP, YAGNI, DRY, and #NoEstimates with Dave Copeland
Dave Copeland, an agile development expert with a rich background in transitioning from government waterfall projects to startup agility, dives deep into key agile principles like SRP, YAGNI, and DRY. He shares insights on the dangers of rigidly following agile aphorisms, highlighting how misunderstandings can lead to poor outcomes. The discussion emphasizes the importance of context and nuance over strict adherence and tackles the balance between over-engineering and under-engineering, drawing on real-world examples to provide clarity in agile practices.

Sep 10, 2024 • 43min
Impact of Teaming from a Management Perspective with Rickard Westman
In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we explore the profound impact of mob programming from a management perspective with our special guest, Rickard Westman. With a diverse background in sports and news software products, Rickard transitioned from a traditional solo work environment to embracing mobbing—a journey that radically transformed how teams communicate, collaborate, and deliver value.
Rickard opens up about his early experiences in the industry, where he witnessed the drawbacks of isolated work patterns—particularly the delays and inefficiencies caused by waiting on pull requests. His initial encounter with mob programming was anything but smooth. The concept felt awkward and unnatural, but after Woody Zuill’s workshops and after experimenting with mobbing, Rickard and his teams discovered its potential to revolutionize their workflows.
In this episode, we dive into Rickard's journey from skepticism to advocacy for mob programming. He shares how mobbing helped increase production release frequency and enhance safety within his teams. By exposing communication breakdowns and dependency issues during scaling, mob programming brought to light the hidden challenges that were stalling progress. With the introduction of multiple mob teams, these issues began to dissipate as team members naturally shared knowledge and collaborated across different areas.
One of the key insights Rickard offers is the importance of slack in the system, generated through effective teaming. This slack led to greater autonomy, smoother flow, and quicker resolution of bottlenecks. Rickard recounts a compelling story where a bug fix, which would have taken six weeks in the traditional setup, was resolved in just one day through mobbing. This rapid turnaround is a testament to the power of collective problem-solving and the deep, holistic understanding of the product that mobbing fosters among team members.
Rickard also touches on the shift in management responsibilities as a result of mob programming. With teams becoming more self-organizing, managers found themselves spending less time overseeing individual tasks and more time empowering their teams to make decisions. This distributed decision-making model, contrasted with the traditional command-and-control approach, aligns with principles from the book *Turn The Ship Around.*
Throughout the episode, we discuss the benefits and potential pitfalls of mob programming from a management perspective. Rickard emphasizes the importance of coaching mob members to understand their contributions, especially when not working solo. He also explores how successful mob teams can serve as models for new teams, highlighting different interaction patterns for product owners, analysts, and even sports writers.
Finally, we examine the meta-level impact of mob programming at the C-suite level and how it influences broader organizational decision-making. Whether you're a manager, developer, or team member, this episode provides valuable insights into how mob programming can unlock potential, foster collaboration, and drive continuous improvement in your organization.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/hLN2iCBdYac

Sep 3, 2024 • 46min
Building Trust and Mastery: Matthew Philip on XP, Agile, and Psychological Safety in Higher Education
It's back to school, everyone! Dive into a transformative journey of education with Matthew Philip, an experienced Organizational Refactorer and educator, as he shares his innovative approach to integrating XP (Extreme Programming) and Agile methodologies into the classroom. In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we explore how Matthew's dynamic teaching methods are applied to software engineering education, fostering an environment where trust, mastery, and psychological safety are paramount.
**XP and Agile in the Classroom**
Matthew Philip's unique perspective as both an educator and coach provides a compelling narrative on how XP and Agile principles can be implemented in higher education. From his history of teaching Agile in orgs and universities to leading hands-on learning experiences that go beyond traditional lectures, Matthew's methods challenge the conventional constraints of the classroom.
Discover how Matthew creates a WAR room environment in the classroom, fostering high energy and positivity to encourage active participation. Learn about the use of information radiators, pairing, and mob programming to ensure students not only grasp theoretical concepts but also excel in real-world applications. Matthew also delves into the challenges of teaching Agile content as part of a master's program in software engineering, where students are exposed to the intricacies of refactoring to patterns and leading through facilitation.
In this episode, we discuss the critical differences between being a crafter versus just a coder, and how Matthew helps students navigate the transition from the academic world to the corporate environment. We explore the importance of understanding short-term school code versus long-term maintainability, and how working with real customers in a classroom setting can profoundly impact students' learning experiences and feedback loops.
**Mastery-Based Learning and Psychological Safety**
Matthew is a strong advocate for mastery-based learning, where the focus shifts from simply passing quizzes to deeply understanding and applying knowledge. We discuss how students can assess their own understanding, whether through techniques like Test-Driven Development (TDD) or experiencing the consequences of poor practices. Matthew emphasizes the significance of psychological safety in the classroom, where students learn how to fail safely and collaborate effectively.
Explore how the pressure of pacing in large classrooms can conflict with mastery learning, and how assessment strategies can be adapted to ensure that learning sticks and isn't lost over time. Matthew shares insights on fostering peer assessments and creating systems where even when students "game" the system, true mastery is still achieved.
**The Role of AI and Future of Education**
In a rapidly evolving educational landscape, Matthew addresses the impact of generative AI in the classroom. How can AI be leveraged to enhance learning, and what are the risks of its misuse? We discuss the importance of correct prompting, the authenticity of AI-generated content, and whether mob programming could be the solution to these challenges—while also questioning whether this approach could disrupt current educational and industry standards due to teacher-to-student ratios.
**Psychological Safety and Building Trust**
Finally, we delve into the role of psychological safety in the classroom, exploring how activities like group juggling can teach students to fail and learn together. Matthew shares strategies for establishing trust and the correlation between high energy, positivity, and psychological safety. We also consider whether in-person interactions are essential for fostering trust, or if remote environments can replicate these conditions.
Don't miss this episode as we uncover the future of education, one where trust, mastery, and psychological safety take center stage. To stay updated on this and other insightful episodes, subscribe to the Mob Mentality Show on your favorite platform.
Video and show Notes: https://youtu.be/IkqRI2GQ4MY

Aug 27, 2024 • 39min
Automated Quality Gateways and Cross Discipline Firmware Mobs with Cyrus Metcalf
In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we explore the intricate landscape of **Automated Quality Gateways and Cross-Discipline Firmware Mobs** with our guest, Cyrus Metcalf. This conversation is rich with practical insights and actionable strategies for anyone engaged in software, firmware, or hardware development, particularly those interested in enhancing team collaboration and continuous delivery (CD) practices through mobbing techniques.
**Automated Quality Gateways:**
Cyrus shares his experiences in setting up automated quality gateways for firmware and software that control sophisticated systems like boats. Learn how these gateways, including tests, formatting, and coverage, ensure robust code quality and seamless operations. We discuss the merits of running formatters locally versus within a pipeline. We also discuss the impact of these gateways on agility, depending on whether you’re in a startup or a more established organization.
The conversation includes the role of hardware abstraction layers and how automated quality gateways can supplement and even replace certain types of human feedback, thereby streamlining the development process. Cyrus also provides insights into achieving consistent formatting, the challenges of fine-tuning formatters, and the importance of custom config files. Discover how these practices create “highways” for development teams, enabling them to operate at peak efficiency within a fast red-green-refactor cycle.
**Leveling Up Through Mobbing:**
We also discuss how mobbing techniques can elevate the skills of every team member, regardless of their technical background. Cyrus explains how mobbing demystifies the development process, reducing their apprehension about software complexities. By fostering a collaborative environment where everyone learns a bit of everything, mobbing helps dismantle knowledge silos and promotes a culture of continuous improvement.
Cyrus shares his experiences as the sole software developer in a company, including strategies for using mobbing to educate and collaborate across hardware, firmware, and software teams. We explore the dynamics of cross-discipline mobs, where diverse teams work together on complex challenges, and how these mobs have evolved from training tools into essential parts of the production process.
**The Culture of Mobbing:**
The episode also delves into the cultural aspects of mobbing, including the pros and cons of different mob cultures across various companies, the importance of openness and inclusivity, and methods for resolving disagreements within a mob. Cyrus discusses the benefits and challenges of mobbing with juniors and interns, interacting with skeptics, and how a culture of openness—both within the mob and across the organization—can drive innovation and collaboration.
Lastly, Cyrus offers his perspective on how agile principles and practices have naturally integrated into his teams without the need for an official agile coach. This episode is essential listening for anyone looking to improve their team’s efficiency, collaboration, and overall quality through the integration of automated quality gateways and cross-discipline mobbing.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/vOxFEtX541A

Aug 21, 2024 • 47min
The Behavior Framework with Doc Norton
In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we explore the Behavior Framework with the insightful Doc Norton, traversing the foundational behaviors that drive successful software development teams. Drawing from years of experience and real-world examples, Doc shares the principles and practices that have consistently helped teams deliver software products that are not only desirable but also viable and feasible.
**Know the Problem You Are Solving**
We kick off the discussion by tackling one of the most critical aspects of software development: understanding the problem you're trying to solve. Doc explains why it's not enough to have a manager dictate tasks and why teams must be aligned on the domain or specific set of problems they're addressing. We explore the difference between developers who are "builders" versus those who are "problem solvers" and discuss real-life scenarios where solving the root business problem either succeeded brilliantly or failed miserably. This section also delves into the concept of "Hubris Driven Development" and ties it into the importance of continuous validation before, during, and after development.
**Make Your Work Visible**
Next, we examine the significance of making your work visible. But what does that really mean? Doc challenges the notion of simply having a manager observe the development process and instead advocates for meaningful visibility that enhances awareness of flow, cycle time, and throughput. We discuss how much visibility is necessary and how to reduce the friction in data gathering by automating the process, ensuring that "updating status" doesn’t become an additional burden on the team.
**Favor Automation Over Documentation**
Doc takes us through the benefits of favoring automation over documentation. From auto-generating status reports via code commits to AI, to using Behavior-Driven Development (BDD) to create historical Gantt Charts, we explore how automation can ease developer pain and streamline DevOps engineering. This approach not only saves time but also enhances accuracy and consistency in reporting.
**Work Together**
The conversation then shifts to the evolving meaning of "working together" in modern software development. Doc reflects on how teams used to function without strict roles or specialization and how the industry's shift towards hyper-specialization has created silos and Lean wastes. We share stories of Pair/Ensemble Programming, the impact of certificate mills on over-specialization, and the pros and cons of specialization in Agile teams. Doc also discusses the importance of credibility through collaboration rather than positional authority and shares examples of teams successfully filling roles collectively.
**Create Simple Things in Small Steps**
Finally, we emphasize the power of creating simple things in small steps. Doc highlights the importance of being aware of psychological WIP (Work in Progress) limits and shares a story of how reducing lead time by taking small, simple steps enabled early and accurate validation. We also discuss the dangers of overproduction and the challenges faced when big steps lead to troubleshooting nightmares, all while tying it back to being meticulous about composition.
Don't miss out on this deep dive into the Behavior Framework with Doc Norton—packed with practical insights and actionable advice for anyone involved in software development.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/MsMK0q_KUwU

Aug 13, 2024 • 24min
Nothing in Tech Matters Except XP? A Hot Take
Dive into a thought-provoking discussion that challenges the significance of tech trends and best practices in software development. Explore how Extreme Programming (XP) might render popular frameworks and structures less critical. Personal experiences highlight that following XP principles leads to higher developer satisfaction, regardless of technology used. The debate around Majestic Monolith vs. Microservices raises important questions about architecture choices. Discover how neglecting technical debt can complicate projects and why a clean approach is vital.

Aug 6, 2024 • 21min
Generate Organization-Wide Understanding with Cross Discipline Causal Loop Diagramming
Come dive into the transformative world of Cross Discipline Causal Loop Diagramming on this episode of the Mob Mentality Show! Unveil the principles and practices behind generating organization-wide understanding and breaking down cross-functional misunderstandings that often lead to missed opportunities.
**Key Highlights:**
**1. The Cost of Misunderstanding:** Discover how cross-functional misunderstandings can lead to missed opportunities and inefficiencies. We explore real-world examples and offer practical solutions to bridge these gaps.
**2. Insights from "The 5th Discipline":** Learn from the wisdom of Peter Senge's seminal book, "The 5th Discipline". Understand how systems thinking can revolutionize your organizational dynamics and foster a culture of continuous improvement.
**3. Causal Loop Diagramming 101:** Get a clear definition of causal loop diagramming and its critical role in understanding complex adaptive systems within organizations. See how quantities in a system impact each other through balancing and reinforcing loops.
**4. Breaking Down Knowledge Silos:** Address the dangers of over-reliance on specialists and knowledge silos. Learn how causal loop diagramming can facilitate better communication and collaboration across different functions and departments.
**5. Visualizing Complex Systems:** Grasp the importance of visualizing exponential effects and cause-and-effect patterns that enhance the performance of typically separately managed systems.
**6. Practical Examples and Tools:** Dive into examples from a Fifth Discipline book club and understand how to draw and use causal loop diagrams. Explore tools and techniques that make the process accessible and effective.
**7. Real-World Applications:** Hear about a causal loop diagram example related to bad code quality and how pairing with each part of the system can build a comprehensive system diagram. Understand the impact of psychological safety on system self-awareness.
**8. Interdepartmental Impact:** Discuss the importance of seeing the whole system to understand interdepartmental impacts. Compare the efficacy of having the whole system in the room with and without formal tools.
**9. Addressing Second-Order Effects:** Identify and address second-order effects and human shortcomings in seeing side effects of side effects. Learn how diagramming can help deal with the chunking problem of a large system.
**10. Feedback and Future Learning:** Hear feedback from Big Agile session participants and understand the learning path for drawing and using causal loop diagrams. Discover how mob/pair causal loop diagramming can enhance understanding and problem-solving.
Join us as we uncover the power of causal loop diagramming to aid decision making, improve communication, and foster a culture of collaboration and continuous improvement. Don't miss out on this edifying episode!
Ensure you stay engaged in the world of organizational development and systems thinking by tuning in to this episode. Your learning path for causal loop diagramming and breaking down knowledge silos starts here!
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/Oe75SzPeCSs

Jul 30, 2024 • 45min
Crafting Lean Software: Dave Adsit on Small Batches and Short Lead Times
In this engaging discussion, Dave Adsit, a Lean Software Development expert, dives into the art of crafting efficient software through small batches and short lead times. He highlights the pivotal role that continuous improvement and collaboration play in enhancing software practices. The conversation explores the shift from traditional methodologies to lean principles, emphasizing the importance of learning, experimentation, and frequent releases. Dave also sheds light on the benefits of pair and mob programming, making a case for embracing failures as stepping stones to success.

Jul 23, 2024 • 45min
Artie Gold on scope is your friend. The less you need to know at any given moment, the better.
Join us on the Mob Mentality Show as we sit down with the insightful Artie Gold to explore the pivotal role of scope and cognitive load in coding. In "Artie Gold on Scope is Your Friend: The Less You Need to Know at Any Given Moment, the Better," we delve into practical strategies for enhancing productivity and code quality through smart scope management.
### Scope and Cognitive Load
Artie Gold sheds light on the false pride developers often take in handling complex code and high cognitive demands. We discuss the advantages of understanding as needed versus knowing everything at once. Are developers truly like acrobats, balancing multiple logic threads simultaneously? Artie highlights the human mind's limitations and the significant benefits of encapsulation in reducing cognitive load.
Key topics include:
- The detrimental effects of high scope and cognitive load on development
- Encapsulation's role in making code easier to read, scan, and modify
- Comparing agile, nimble, and shallow approaches to manage cognitive overload
- Artie's amusing analogy of low-level code instructions to a simple task like buying milk
- Strategies for helping developers adapt to a new paradigm of encapsulated code reading
### Clarity of Value on Stories
We shift our focus to the critical importance of clarity in user stories and the benefits of direct client relationships. Artie discusses the drawbacks of indirect communication and the often humorous complications of serving as the middleman for another middleman.
Discussion points include:
- The irreplaceable value of direct conversations in understanding "the why" behind requests
- Whether good story conversations can be replaced with a template or checklist
- The impact of user feedback on delivered products versus theoretical future products
- The risks of over-refinement, illustrated by the rock versus ruby MVP delivery example
- Challenges in assuming everyone excels at written communication
### Code is Everything. Code is Nothing.
In our final segment, we explore the dual nature of code. Code is vital—it produces value, is easier to change than other components, and serves as a repository of knowledge. Yet, code alone is meaningless without context and purpose.
Artie elaborates on:
- The necessity of keeping code in good shape for ease of future changes
- Why "pretty" code isn't the goal—functional, adaptable code is
- The inherent truthfulness of code as the ultimate source of software reality
**Don't miss this insightful discussion with Artie Gold that can transform your approach to coding, user stories, and the fundamental nature of software development.**
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/0z2nQHT8Jvs