
The Mob Mentality Show
Chris Lucian and Austin Chadwick discuss all things agile and product development from a mob programming perspective.
Latest episodes

6 snips
Jun 2, 2025 ⢠47min
Liminal Thinking with Dave Gray: Meet the Man Who Accidentally Wrote a Book About Us
In this engaging discussion, Dave Gray, a visual thinker and author of Liminal Thinking, delves into the power of belief and its impact on our lives and work. He highlights why many Agile transformations fail and how to navigate confusing resistance in teams. With his artistic background, Dave emphasizes the importance of creating safe spaces for authentic collaboration and change. His insights on perception and how it distorts reality reveal surprising truths, including why lunch with someone you think is 'crazy' might lead to unexpected wisdom.

May 21, 2025 ⢠46min
From the Birth of XP to the Death of Scrum with Tobias Mayer
In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with Tobias Mayerāauthor, coach, and longtime voice in the Agile worldāto explore the journey from his early discovery of XP (Extreme Programming) in 1997 all the way to todayās debate around the death of Scrum.
Tobias shares his personal transformation from developer to Scrum Master, his resistance to early XP, and how he learned great practices from developers he managed. We unpack his reflections on Agileās semantic drift, the role of Scrum Masters as change agents vs. bean counters, and what happens when teams do Agile without even knowing the Agile Manifesto.
š Topics we dive deep into:
Discovering XP through a paper against it š
When āScrumā became a buzzword and what was lost in translation
What it really means to live the values of the Agile Manifesto
XP coaches, grassroots change, and learning from your team
The difference between top-down control and emergent discovery
Misused metaphors in tech: āfirefighting,ā āwar rooms,ā āsoldiers,ā and more
Are software teams more like engineers, artisans, or ensembles?
Can DORA metrics (DevOps Research and Assessment) prove or disprove Agileās effectiveness?
We also dig into mob programming (aka mobbing)āwhat it means, why the name matters, and whether or not new metaphors like āensemble programmingā or āteamingā (Ć la Amy Edmondson) better reflect how high-performing teams really work.
š” Plus:
The problem with the Product Owner (PO) role in Scrum
Why language in IT shapes behaviorāfor better or worse
Applying Artful Making to modern product development
Rethinking business through the lens of theatre, philosophy, and cooperative economics
The importance of psychological safety, dissent, and experimentation in creating real agility
Tobias brings rich context from classics, theology, and historyāyes, even turning a conference t-shirt into fashionāto challenge how we think about building products, teams, and businesses.
š ļø Whether you're into XP, Scrum, Mob Programming, Lean, or simply want to rethink your metaphors and language at work, this episode delivers grounded insight, sharp critique, and fresh perspectives.
š Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of agile thinking, real teamwork, and modern product development.
Video and show notes: https://youtu.be/ZFoY-De91BE

May 13, 2025 ⢠50min
Overrun Navigators, Strong Opinions, and Doc Reading: Prof Benās Mobbing Questions from the Trenches
Join Professor Ben Kovitz, a Computer Science educator with 15 years in software development, as he tackles real-world mob programming challenges faced in the classroom. He shares insights on balancing deep thought with group momentum and the debate between upfront design and agile discovery within a mob. Ben also discusses the dynamics of student collaboration, the role of the navigator amidst chaos, and the importance of structured roles. Additionally, he highlights how collaborative documentation can transform learning and enhance problem-solving skills.

May 7, 2025 ⢠19min
Football, Trust, and Code: What Retro Bowl Teaches Tech Leaders, Coaches, and Teamsā
š Welcome to another episode of the Mob Mentality Show, where we explore the intersection of software development, leadership, and real-world lessonsāfrom the unexpected to the game-changing. This time, we're talking Coaching Creditsāas seen in the addictive mobile football game Retro Bowlāand how they map directly to trust, influence, and leadership in software teams.
šļø What are Coaching Credits?
In Retro Bowl, Coaching Credits represent the respect and trust youāve earned from players, staff, and fans. They let you upgrade your team, hire top-tier talent, and level up your environment. In software development, we argue Coaching Credits are just as realāearned through Extreme Programming (XP), Mob Programming, Test-Driven Development (TDD), Continuous Delivery (CD), and strong relationship-building.
š¶ Austin kicks it off with a story about trying to stay awake helping his wife with their new babyāturning to Retro Bowl as a late-night lifeline. That sparks a deep dive into what the game teaches us about:
Building trust and respect through small wins
The balance between performance and relationships
Using ācreditsā (influence) wisely inside and outside your team
How to upgrade your environment and talent pool over time
What happens when you try to āspendā influence you donāt actually have
šØāš» In Dev Culture Terms:
Earn trust by delivering value. Spend it by coaching others, refactoring code, upgrading environments, or influencing org-wide decisions. Just like in Retro Bowl, you can overreach. Think: trying a big move when your trust bank is empty = a bounced check.
š We also tie Coaching Credits to Stephen Coveyās 7 Habitsāspecifically, the idea of an emotional bank accountāand reflect on how these lessons align with the origin story of mob programming.
šØ Key Questions We Explore:
Can you go into Coaching Credit ādebtā?
Is quick wins and trust the only way forward when you're starting from zero?
Are you too transactional in how you lead or code?
Should someone build a Software Dev Sim game like Retro Bowl? š
š” If you're a software engineer, tech lead, or engineering manager, this episode offers a fun but surprisingly deep framework for thinking about how trust, respect, and influence shape the way you build products and teams.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/ZWgOkphBFNI

Apr 28, 2025 ⢠24min
How to Split the Impossible: Slicing Stories When the Dream Is Too Big
šļø Ever faced a product vision so massive it felt impossible to start? In this Mob Mentality Show episode, we tackle the art and science of Story Splitting ā breaking down huge dreams into small, deliverable slices without losing momentum or clarity.
We explore real-world strategies, including:
Asking the hard questions like Do we really need to release everything at once?
Using SPIDR (Spike, Path, Interface, Data, Rules) to guide story splitting
Implementing Feature Flags (tools to enable/disable features without deploying new code) for flexible delivery
Creating color-coded diagrams to visualize release order and dependencies
Practicing "Yes, and" techniques to manage big customer asks without abandoning Agile values
Running post-mortem retrospectives focused on improving splitting practices
Mapping ideas with Discovery Trees (visual structures for feature evolution)
Handling the tension between Big Bang marketing launches and incremental delivery
Influencing sales and marketing teams to only sell what's already done vs. selling the future
Identifying the impact of poor story splitting on technical debt and customer trust
Differentiating splitting technical work vs. splitting user-facing features
Teaching business stakeholders the fundamentals of CD (Continuous Delivery) and good story practices implicitly vs. explicitly
Working through known unknowns vs. unknown unknowns in product discovery
Using the Cynefin Framework (a model for navigating complexity) to decide splitting approaches
Prioritizing with cost of delay and story split diagrams to maximize value
This episode is packed with hands-on advice for developers, product managers, Agile coaches, and leaders looking to move fast without breaking things. Whether you're struggling with overwhelming customer requests, complicated roadmaps, or internal misalignment, learning how to split the impossible is key to success in Agile, Continuous Delivery, and Lean Product Development.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/MjwIkiM25xM

Apr 23, 2025 ⢠46min
How Gemba Walks and Mobbing Reveal the Truth About Your Engineering Org with Phil Borlin
šļø Whatās really happening inside your engineering org?
In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we sit down with Philip Borlin, Director of Engineering and advocate for lean thinking, mobbing, and team capability building, to uncover how Gemba Walks, smaller batch sizes, and healthy team nudges reveal the actual state of your tech organizationānot just what reports say.
We explore how leaders can stop flying blind and start leading based on facts from the field.
š Topics Covered:
ā
Gemba Walks (Japanese term meaning āgo to the real placeā):
Why your assumptions about how work gets done are probably wrong
How spending even one hour a week in the mob or at the code level changes everything
The myth of managing solely through middle managers
Why high-fidelity information beats filtered reporting
Remote-friendly adaptations: mobbing, Lean coffees, and async insight gathering
ā
Mobbing (also known as ensemble programming):
How mobbing surfaces capability gaps and builds shared understanding
Growing capabilities without enforcing rigid standards
Real stories of capability fire drills, single points of failure, and org fragility
āLow and slowā growth as the only sustainable path to true skill development?
ā
Fixing Batch Size and WIP (Work In Progress):
How large batches lead to delivery waste, delays, and bugs
The surprising power of reducing ticket size to unlock flow
Socratic coaching at stand-ups to improve team work slicing
Giving permission to drop non-priority work and focus only on what matters
ā
Building a Learning Culture:
Why capability resilience > retaining every team member forever
Using ānudgesā and peer pressure the right way
Investing in bright spots without ignoring skeptics
Cultivating environments where psychological safety and growth feed off each other
š” Whether youāre a Director of Engineering, Tech Lead, Agile Coach, or Software Engineer, this episode gives you practical ways to lead with clarity, scale team capability, and build resilience into your orgās DNA.
š§ Subscribe now so you donāt miss the drop:
š https://www.mobmentalityshow.com/
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/bFMD0AsVDUA

Apr 14, 2025 ⢠44min
No Branches?! Ron Cohen Breaks Down Trunk Based Development and Feature Flags (For Real)
What if your team didnāt need branches at all? š„ In this episode of The Mob Mentality Show, we sit down with Ron Cohen, CTO and co-founder of Bucket, to unpack the real story behind Trunk Based Development (TBD) and the practical use of Feature Flags.
Ron stirred the pot online by challenging common assumptions around TBD ā and now heās here to clear the air.
We talk about:
What Trunk Based Development really means (Hint: Itās not just āno branchesā)
Why TBD isnāt just a Git strategy, but a safety mindset often backed by solid practices like Pair Programming, Mob Programming, and TDD (Test-Driven Development)
Gitflow vs. TBD ā which one sets your team up to move faster and safer?
The myth that TBD = chaos, and why short-lived branches might still play a role
How mobbing and pairing can make TBD not just possible, but powerful
We also dive deep into Feature Flags (a.k.a. Feature Toggles):
Why Ron became obsessed with them ā and how they changed how his teams ship code
How to use toggles for faster releases, safer experiments, and smoother collaboration between devs, Product Owners (POs), and marketing
The difference between feature flags that require a deployment and those that donāt
The value of ādogfoodingā your features in production before a full rollout
Why not all toggles are created equal ā from simple UI switches to ops-level controls
How to avoid the mess of long-lived toggles and clean up after experiments (Austin, we're looking at you š
)
Plus:
How flags can power A/B testing and internal beta programs
Fowlerās definition of Feature Flags ā and how it is in action
Using toggles to build internal and external trust
Ronās framework for different kinds of flags in different contexts
Whether you're deep into CI/CD (Continuous Integration/Continuous Delivery), trying to tame your branching strategy, or just want to ship smarter ā this episodeās packed with insights you can use immediately.
š§ Subscribe and listen on your favorite platform:
š https://www.mobmentalityshow.com/
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/4PZN1yO8l2c

Apr 1, 2025 ⢠46min
How Software Prof Ben Kovitz Turned His Class into a Live Coding Mob
What happens when a college software design course ditches traditional lectures and embraces Mob Programming?
In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we sit down with Ben Kovitz, a former software developer turned professor at Cal Poly Humboldt, to explore his innovative approach to teaching software design through mobbing.
Topics Covered:
ā
From Industry to Academia: Why Ben left software development to become a professor and how he discovered mob programming.
ā
Redefining Software Education: Instead of 30 traditional lectures on software design, Benās students learn by doingādesigning software while coding.
ā
The Power of Mobbing in the Classroom: How students collaborate in the mob of 8, rapidly sharing knowledge and tackling challenges together.
ā
Fast Learning vs. Lectures: Why mobbing enables faster knowledge transfer compared to passive lectures.
ā
Strong-Style Navigation: How rotations and fast timers helped to stimulate a highly effective learning environment.
ā
The Role of the Navigator: How students help each other navigate, learn C++ and the QT framework, and document key lessons from each mob session.
ā
Real-World Software Challenges: Simulating legacy code maintenance, evolutionary design, and design patterns like MVC (Model-View-Controller).
ā
Overcoming Student Struggles: What happens when students donāt know how to navigate? How asking for help and learning together fosters growth.
ā
Teaching Through Experience: Letting students experiment with flawed solutions before introducing better design principles.
ā
Assessment & Engagement: How Ben measures student participation, engagement, and learning outcomes in a mobbing environment.
Why This Matters:
Traditional software design education can leave students unprepared for the realities of refactoring real code and collaborative development. By integrating Mob Programming, refactoring techniques, and hands-on problem-solving, Ben Kovitz is equipping the next generation of developers with practical, real-world skills and deeper design insights.
š¢ Subscribe to the Mob Mentality Show to stay updated on the latest insights in Mob Programming, Extreme Programming (XP), Agile, and collaborative software development!
š§ Listen on your favorite podcast platform: https://www.mobmentalityshow.com
š Donāt forget to LIKE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE for more episodes on software development, coding education, and team collaboration!
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/Rajvp2nrg1A

Mar 24, 2025 ⢠48min
Garrick West on 'Building' Great Developers with XP & Agile plus the Best Debugging
Garrick West, a seasoned XP practitioner and Agile coach, shares insights from his rich history in software development, starting with coding at age 10. He discusses effective strategies for building great developers through mentorship and an apprenticeship model. The conversation dives into mastering debugging with key techniques and the significance of communication. Additionally, Garrick emphasizes the revival of Extreme Programming, making it crucial for Agile teams today, while advocating for stronger collaborations between industry experts and academia.

Mar 17, 2025 ⢠46min
Game Jams & Mobbing: Supercharging Learning, Speed, and Creativity with James Herr
š How do Game Jams accelerate learning? Can mobbing make game development more effective? In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we dive deep into Game Jams, Mobbing, and Game Dev Collaboration with James Herrāa full-stack developer, game dev enthusiast, and published game creator on Steam.
š® What You'll Learn in This Episode:
š¹ What Are Game Jams and why theyāre a must-try for devs?
š¹ The tech stacks and tools commonly used in Game Jams
š¹ How themes shape a Game Jamās creativity and constraints
š¹ How James is bringing mobbing into Game Jams
š¹ The difference between solo development, swarming, and full mobbing?
š¹ Pros & Cons of Mobbing Game JamsāDoes it boost creativity or slow things down?
š¹ How Discord & Twitch fuel real-time game dev collaboration
š¹ Can Twitch chat act as a ānavigatorā in game development? Does the live audience guide decisions?
š¹ How Game Jams reveal code smells faster and teach refactoring & design patterns
š¹ Why public game dev can be a game-changer for learning speed
š¹ How Game Jams can simulate real-world software challenges and improve teamwork
š¹ Mob timer tools & Git handover techniques for smoother collaboration
š¤ Why This Episode Matters:
Mobbing isnāt just for software teamsāitās transforming game development, learning, and onboarding. James shares his firsthand experience mobbing with kids, running Game Jams with cross-discipline teams, and teaching mobbing roles in game dev. Whether youāre a seasoned developer, indie game creator, or just curious about Game Jams, this episode is packed with actionable insights!
š¢ Want to Join the Game Dev Community?
James discusses how Discord and Twitch connect developers worldwide, making it easy to collaborate, get feedback, and learn from others. Checkout James' communities here: https://jamcraft.io/
š§ Subscribe & Listen Now!
Donāt miss out! Subscribe to the Mob Mentality Show and get notified when this episode drops:
š https://www.mobmentalityshow.com/
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/AZEH_FmBBKs