
The Mob Mentality Show
Chris Lucian and Austin Chadwick discuss all things agile and product development from a mob programming perspective.
Latest episodes

Jun 24, 2025 • 48min
From Pub Night to Production Code: How a TDD Board Game Transforms Teams with John Wilson, Janis Kampe, and Ted M. Young
🎲 In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we dive into a unique and game-changing (literally) approach to learning Test-Driven Development (TDD) with Ted M. Young (JitterTed), John Wilson, and Janis Kampe.
Discover the origin story of the TDD board game that started as a simple teaching aid and evolved into a powerful learning experience for developers, teams, and even product managers. Hear how this game went from casual pub nights to becoming a staple for some in team training sessions, meetups, and Agile coaching toolkits.
We break down:
✅ How the TDD board game helps teams internalize the deeper steps of TDD beyond the basic "Red-Green-Refactor" mantra.
✅ Why the game’s focus on prediction, risk management, and working in small steps transforms the way people think about writing code.
✅ The surprising ways the game builds psychological safety, making it accessible even to people new to TDD or nervous about exposing gaps in their knowledge.
✅ How the game naturally leads to ensemble (mob) programming and seamless transitions into hands-on coding platforms like CyberDojo.
✅ Practical tips on using the game to onboard, coach, and improve team collaboration—whether you're remote, hybrid, or in-person.
We also explore the importance of failing safely, incremental learning, and how the game allows players to experience both the thrill of success and the consequences of cutting corners—without the high stakes of real-world code.
Whether you're a developer, Agile coach, product manager, or just curious about TDD, this episode will give you actionable insights on:
🛠 How to enable continuous learning in your teams.
🎯 Why predicting outcomes matters more than just getting green tests.
🎮 How gamification makes TDD fun, social, and sticky.
Key Topics:
TDD Board Game Mechanics & Variations
Psychological Safety in Learning
Risk vs. Reward in Software Development
Ensemble Programming (Mob Programming)
Transitioning from Game to CyberDojo
Practical Coaching Tools for TDD and XP
Building Stronger Developer-Product Manager Collaboration
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/GjcUdoS5K6I

Jun 16, 2025 • 50min
Why Legacy Code Is Everyone’s Problem: Wouter Lagerweij on Product & Engineering Ownership
Wouter Lagerweij, an independent Agile Coach from the Netherlands, shares insights on tackling legacy code and its underlying organizational issues. He argues that legacy systems reflect deeper problems within teams and emphasizes the significance of cross-functional responsibility. The conversation covers the power of Agile teaming, like mob programming, to enhance collaboration and speed. Wouter also critiques traditional bug tracking as ineffective and promotes a zero-bug policy for better quality. Listeners gain practical strategies for improving their software processes and fostering teamwork.

Jun 9, 2025 • 47min
Powerful, Profitable Software Products – Behind the Book with Kyle Rowland
🎙️ What happens when software engineers and leaders don’t speak the same language? How do context-free Agile practices and technical dogma lead teams astray? And how do we create engineering cultures that deliver real business value without burning out?
In this Mob Mentality Show episode, we sit down with Kyle Rowland—leadership and software consultant, 20-year software engineering veteran, and author of Powerful Profitable Software Products: The Executive Guidebook—to tackle the tough questions at the heart of sustainable, impactful software delivery.
💡 What We Cover in This Episode:
🔧 The Engineering-Leadership Impedance Mismatch
Why do engineering leaders and business leaders often talk past each other? Kyle shares how focusing on both “how” we build and “what” we build—can prevent burnout, bottlenecks, and bad outcomes. We explore why real innovation depends on creating win-win systems, not siloed thinking.
⚠️ The Danger of Context-Free Agile
Many teams argue about Agile, TDD, TBD, and pairing without understanding the systems that make those practices work. Kyle unpacks how context, principles, and shared goals determine whether these tools help or hurt—and how to avoid cargo cult Agile.
🔬 Empiricism vs. Philosophy in Tech Decisions
Is the Agile Manifesto's call for empiricism enough? Or is there still a place for a priori reasoning (argument from principle) in engineering? Kyle argues for a balanced approach—using experiments where we can, and wisdom where we must.
⏱️ The 1:40 Rule and Escaping Tactical Overload
Are you buried in endless 1-on-1s and tactical firefighting? Kyle introduces the “1:40 rule”—a lens for spotting when leaders are too involved in details and not investing in system-level growth. He explains how to avoid organizational entropy and shift your focus from maintenance to momentum.
📚 Plus: Behind the Book
We go deep on Kyle’s new book Powerful Profitable Software Products, exploring practical ways leaders can move from reactive chaos to purpose-driven product delivery—while empowering teams and aligning with business goals.
🎧 Whether you're an engineering leader, product owner, or software dev, this episode is packed with insights on leadership, systems thinking, quality, speed, and how to build software that matters.
FYI: Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/oCK1lMa2s9A

6 snips
Jun 2, 2025 • 47min
Liminal Thinking with Dave Gray: Meet the Man Who Accidentally Wrote a Book About Us
In this engaging discussion, Dave Gray, a visual thinker and author of Liminal Thinking, delves into the power of belief and its impact on our lives and work. He highlights why many Agile transformations fail and how to navigate confusing resistance in teams. With his artistic background, Dave emphasizes the importance of creating safe spaces for authentic collaboration and change. His insights on perception and how it distorts reality reveal surprising truths, including why lunch with someone you think is 'crazy' might lead to unexpected wisdom.

May 21, 2025 • 46min
From the Birth of XP to the Death of Scrum with Tobias Mayer
In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with Tobias Mayer—author, coach, and longtime voice in the Agile world—to explore the journey from his early discovery of XP (Extreme Programming) in 1997 all the way to today’s debate around the death of Scrum.
Tobias shares his personal transformation from developer to Scrum Master, his resistance to early XP, and how he learned great practices from developers he managed. We unpack his reflections on Agile’s semantic drift, the role of Scrum Masters as change agents vs. bean counters, and what happens when teams do Agile without even knowing the Agile Manifesto.
🔍 Topics we dive deep into:
Discovering XP through a paper against it 😅
When “Scrum” became a buzzword and what was lost in translation
What it really means to live the values of the Agile Manifesto
XP coaches, grassroots change, and learning from your team
The difference between top-down control and emergent discovery
Misused metaphors in tech: “firefighting,” “war rooms,” “soldiers,” and more
Are software teams more like engineers, artisans, or ensembles?
Can DORA metrics (DevOps Research and Assessment) prove or disprove Agile’s effectiveness?
We also dig into mob programming (aka mobbing)—what it means, why the name matters, and whether or not new metaphors like “ensemble programming” or “teaming” (à la Amy Edmondson) better reflect how high-performing teams really work.
💡 Plus:
The problem with the Product Owner (PO) role in Scrum
Why language in IT shapes behavior—for better or worse
Applying Artful Making to modern product development
Rethinking business through the lens of theatre, philosophy, and cooperative economics
The importance of psychological safety, dissent, and experimentation in creating real agility
Tobias brings rich context from classics, theology, and history—yes, even turning a conference t-shirt into fashion—to challenge how we think about building products, teams, and businesses.
🛠️ Whether you're into XP, Scrum, Mob Programming, Lean, or simply want to rethink your metaphors and language at work, this episode delivers grounded insight, sharp critique, and fresh perspectives.
👉 Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of agile thinking, real teamwork, and modern product development.
Video and show notes: https://youtu.be/ZFoY-De91BE

May 13, 2025 • 50min
Overrun Navigators, Strong Opinions, and Doc Reading: Prof Ben’s Mobbing Questions from the Trenches
Join Professor Ben Kovitz, a Computer Science educator with 15 years in software development, as he tackles real-world mob programming challenges faced in the classroom. He shares insights on balancing deep thought with group momentum and the debate between upfront design and agile discovery within a mob. Ben also discusses the dynamics of student collaboration, the role of the navigator amidst chaos, and the importance of structured roles. Additionally, he highlights how collaborative documentation can transform learning and enhance problem-solving skills.

May 7, 2025 • 19min
Football, Trust, and Code: What Retro Bowl Teaches Tech Leaders, Coaches, and Teams
🏈 Welcome to another episode of the Mob Mentality Show, where we explore the intersection of software development, leadership, and real-world lessons—from the unexpected to the game-changing. This time, we're talking Coaching Credits—as seen in the addictive mobile football game Retro Bowl—and how they map directly to trust, influence, and leadership in software teams.
🎙️ What are Coaching Credits?
In Retro Bowl, Coaching Credits represent the respect and trust you’ve earned from players, staff, and fans. They let you upgrade your team, hire top-tier talent, and level up your environment. In software development, we argue Coaching Credits are just as real—earned through Extreme Programming (XP), Mob Programming, Test-Driven Development (TDD), Continuous Delivery (CD), and strong relationship-building.
👶 Austin kicks it off with a story about trying to stay awake helping his wife with their new baby—turning to Retro Bowl as a late-night lifeline. That sparks a deep dive into what the game teaches us about:
Building trust and respect through small wins
The balance between performance and relationships
Using “credits” (influence) wisely inside and outside your team
How to upgrade your environment and talent pool over time
What happens when you try to “spend” influence you don’t actually have
👨💻 In Dev Culture Terms:
Earn trust by delivering value. Spend it by coaching others, refactoring code, upgrading environments, or influencing org-wide decisions. Just like in Retro Bowl, you can overreach. Think: trying a big move when your trust bank is empty = a bounced check.
📘 We also tie Coaching Credits to Stephen Covey’s 7 Habits—specifically, the idea of an emotional bank account—and reflect on how these lessons align with the origin story of mob programming.
🚨 Key Questions We Explore:
Can you go into Coaching Credit “debt”?
Is quick wins and trust the only way forward when you're starting from zero?
Are you too transactional in how you lead or code?
Should someone build a Software Dev Sim game like Retro Bowl? 😅
💡 If you're a software engineer, tech lead, or engineering manager, this episode offers a fun but surprisingly deep framework for thinking about how trust, respect, and influence shape the way you build products and teams.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/ZWgOkphBFNI

Apr 28, 2025 • 24min
How to Split the Impossible: Slicing Stories When the Dream Is Too Big
🎙️ Ever faced a product vision so massive it felt impossible to start? In this Mob Mentality Show episode, we tackle the art and science of Story Splitting — breaking down huge dreams into small, deliverable slices without losing momentum or clarity.
We explore real-world strategies, including:
Asking the hard questions like Do we really need to release everything at once?
Using SPIDR (Spike, Path, Interface, Data, Rules) to guide story splitting
Implementing Feature Flags (tools to enable/disable features without deploying new code) for flexible delivery
Creating color-coded diagrams to visualize release order and dependencies
Practicing "Yes, and" techniques to manage big customer asks without abandoning Agile values
Running post-mortem retrospectives focused on improving splitting practices
Mapping ideas with Discovery Trees (visual structures for feature evolution)
Handling the tension between Big Bang marketing launches and incremental delivery
Influencing sales and marketing teams to only sell what's already done vs. selling the future
Identifying the impact of poor story splitting on technical debt and customer trust
Differentiating splitting technical work vs. splitting user-facing features
Teaching business stakeholders the fundamentals of CD (Continuous Delivery) and good story practices implicitly vs. explicitly
Working through known unknowns vs. unknown unknowns in product discovery
Using the Cynefin Framework (a model for navigating complexity) to decide splitting approaches
Prioritizing with cost of delay and story split diagrams to maximize value
This episode is packed with hands-on advice for developers, product managers, Agile coaches, and leaders looking to move fast without breaking things. Whether you're struggling with overwhelming customer requests, complicated roadmaps, or internal misalignment, learning how to split the impossible is key to success in Agile, Continuous Delivery, and Lean Product Development.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/MjwIkiM25xM

Apr 23, 2025 • 46min
How Gemba Walks and Mobbing Reveal the Truth About Your Engineering Org with Phil Borlin
🎙️ What’s really happening inside your engineering org?
In this episode of the Mob Mentality Show, we sit down with Philip Borlin, Director of Engineering and advocate for lean thinking, mobbing, and team capability building, to uncover how Gemba Walks, smaller batch sizes, and healthy team nudges reveal the actual state of your tech organization—not just what reports say.
We explore how leaders can stop flying blind and start leading based on facts from the field.
🔍 Topics Covered:
✅ Gemba Walks (Japanese term meaning “go to the real place”):
Why your assumptions about how work gets done are probably wrong
How spending even one hour a week in the mob or at the code level changes everything
The myth of managing solely through middle managers
Why high-fidelity information beats filtered reporting
Remote-friendly adaptations: mobbing, Lean coffees, and async insight gathering
✅ Mobbing (also known as ensemble programming):
How mobbing surfaces capability gaps and builds shared understanding
Growing capabilities without enforcing rigid standards
Real stories of capability fire drills, single points of failure, and org fragility
“Low and slow” growth as the only sustainable path to true skill development?
✅ Fixing Batch Size and WIP (Work In Progress):
How large batches lead to delivery waste, delays, and bugs
The surprising power of reducing ticket size to unlock flow
Socratic coaching at stand-ups to improve team work slicing
Giving permission to drop non-priority work and focus only on what matters
✅ Building a Learning Culture:
Why capability resilience > retaining every team member forever
Using “nudges” and peer pressure the right way
Investing in bright spots without ignoring skeptics
Cultivating environments where psychological safety and growth feed off each other
💡 Whether you’re a Director of Engineering, Tech Lead, Agile Coach, or Software Engineer, this episode gives you practical ways to lead with clarity, scale team capability, and build resilience into your org’s DNA.
🎧 Subscribe now so you don’t miss the drop:
👉 https://www.mobmentalityshow.com/
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/bFMD0AsVDUA

Apr 14, 2025 • 44min
No Branches?! Ron Cohen Breaks Down Trunk Based Development and Feature Flags (For Real)
What if your team didn’t need branches at all? 💥 In this episode of The Mob Mentality Show, we sit down with Ron Cohen, CTO and co-founder of Bucket, to unpack the real story behind Trunk Based Development (TBD) and the practical use of Feature Flags.
Ron stirred the pot online by challenging common assumptions around TBD — and now he’s here to clear the air.
We talk about:
What Trunk Based Development really means (Hint: It’s not just “no branches”)
Why TBD isn’t just a Git strategy, but a safety mindset often backed by solid practices like Pair Programming, Mob Programming, and TDD (Test-Driven Development)
Gitflow vs. TBD — which one sets your team up to move faster and safer?
The myth that TBD = chaos, and why short-lived branches might still play a role
How mobbing and pairing can make TBD not just possible, but powerful
We also dive deep into Feature Flags (a.k.a. Feature Toggles):
Why Ron became obsessed with them — and how they changed how his teams ship code
How to use toggles for faster releases, safer experiments, and smoother collaboration between devs, Product Owners (POs), and marketing
The difference between feature flags that require a deployment and those that don’t
The value of “dogfooding” your features in production before a full rollout
Why not all toggles are created equal — from simple UI switches to ops-level controls
How to avoid the mess of long-lived toggles and clean up after experiments (Austin, we're looking at you 😅)
Plus:
How flags can power A/B testing and internal beta programs
Fowler’s definition of Feature Flags — and how it is in action
Using toggles to build internal and external trust
Ron’s framework for different kinds of flags in different contexts
Whether you're deep into CI/CD (Continuous Integration/Continuous Delivery), trying to tame your branching strategy, or just want to ship smarter — this episode’s packed with insights you can use immediately.
🎧 Subscribe and listen on your favorite platform:
👉 https://www.mobmentalityshow.com/
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/4PZN1yO8l2c