VO BOSS

How do you determine your worth as a voice actor, especially when you're just starting out? Join Anne and Tom as we unravel the complexities of setting rates in the voiceover industry. We challenge the misconception that newbies should work for less and emphasize the need for a solid base studio session fee. From understanding SAG-AFTRA and Global Voice Acting Academy (GVAA) rate guides to navigating the nuances of broadcast and non-broadcast work, we provide practical insights that empower you to establish your value right from the get-go. Efficiency and quality are your best allies in commanding higher rates and securing repeat clients. Learn the essential strategies for managing your career, from cultivating new leads and staying updated on market trends to understanding client churn. We'll share actionable advice on how to keep your pipeline full and stay ahead of the curve in this ever-evolving industry. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzzacom. 00:26 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next project. Find out more at anganguzacom. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. The boss, a VO boss. 00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I am here on the Real Boss series with my co-host, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere, how are you? 00:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello Anne, how are you doing? 00:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Real boss. Yeah, hey, Tom, as a real boss. How's your year going? By the way, it's gone by so fast already. 01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) First quarter gone. 01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, first quarter and tax season is already coming. 01:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I mean, we filed, I filed and I got paid already. So yeah, oh, very, very nice. 01:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, speaking of numbers, you're a numbers guy, so how's your year going? 01:20 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's funny because I just did my first quarter analytics financially and I think I'm like literally like $300 ahead of first quarter 2023. 01:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Congrats. 01:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Can't complain about that. 01:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Being ahead is always a plus, always a plus and myself as well, and I'm ecstatic that I got paid already from the government, so that's good. I'm going to reinvest that in my business. But I love talking real numbers, like real money. So I thought it would be good to talk about real money, because so many times I have students who just get into this industry and they get that first job where somebody's interested in their voice and then they panic and they say, oh my God, they've come back to me and they want to know what I'll charge for this job and I thought we should actually. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about those numbers. How do people come up with those numbers? 02:13 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. It's funny because, like we could just say, well, just go look at the SAG-AFTRA contract if you're union, or go look at the Global Voice Acting website if you're non-union, and this will be the world's shortest podcast episode. 02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's it. Gvaa rate guide and SegAftra Boom and you're done. 02:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) But, as you well know, it's a lot more complicated than that. But I want to do a little bit of myth busting real quick. A lot of voice actors coming into the industry think hierarchical. They think vertical, as in. Since they're just entering the voiceover industry, they should get paid the lowest and the people who have been in here the longest should get paid the highest. And that is not necessarily true. I mean, if there's one thing I've learned in the 25 plus years I've been doing this is that the last gig I got isn't always the worst paying gig I've got, and then the next gig I've got isn't always the best paying gig that I've got. 03:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It fluctuates, it just does right. I mean, before the rate guides. Well, I think there was always SAG-AFTRA, but SAG-AFTRA mostly concentrated on things that were national and broadcast right, and so national, regional, local, anything that was broadcast. So what was a girl to do back in the early years when I was there trying to figure out what do I charge? And literally it set myself into a panic and I always, tom, had to pretty much just kind of wing it and guess what? I think that that's even still true today. 03:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) I mean, now we have guides that we can look at as benchmarks, but in reality every job is absolutely different, especially when you're talking non-broadcast rates, so broadcast rates, radio, tv, cable, internet, streaming right, all the front-facing stuff, where there's going to be a session fee, which is how much you get paid to record the voiceover audio files, and then the usage fee, which is how much you get paid for giving license, because you're literally licensing your voice to the voice seekers for them to use your audio files in a certain period of time and in a certain area. 04:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. 04:31 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So that's broadcast in the broadest sense, for lack of a better term, and just by giving your listeners that basic explanation. That's what sets up this avalanche of other questions. It's like how big of a market, how many listeners, how long are you getting paid for? It's, in simplest terms, the more listeners or viewers, the more you get paid, and the longer that they're going to air this spot, on whatever medium they decide, the more you get paid. So the question is where do you start with that? So actually, that leads me to a question. Anne, do you have like a turning? 05:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) on the lights fee. Do you have a base studio session fee? Yes, I absolutely do. For me to step into the studio, I have a certain fee and a lot of my work is non-broadcast. So if I am doing any work that's broadcast. Typically that's either handled by my agent, right? Who's negotiating that for me? Which is why it's awesome to have agents, because they handle that and they're always fighting for the most part, if you've got a good agent for your best interests. 05:35 If it's not an agent fighting for the rates, then I have to go to a rate guide to start somewhere and figure out what that is. But for non-broadcast, absolutely. I have a rate for stepping into my studio and that is my studio session fee, which. 05:51 I try to equate everything non-broadcast to the same equivalent on the broadcast side, because these days, with synthetic voices right, I want to make sure that nobody's going to be using my voice for a purpose that it wasn't intended for, and so I will actually put and I'm probably getting ahead of myself on my non-broadcast, I will put an actual length of time, whereas previously this was not something we talked about in perpetuity in another episode. But I want to absolutely address that. For non-broadcast, typically it was you gave somebody a rate for usage of that file and it was forever. And now, with synthetic voices and the fear of getting our voices stolen or used for purposes other than intended, I now put in for non-broadcast. I put in a length of time that they can use that for as a safeguard. 06:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right and for certain things I mean there's explainers and corporate and e-learning and stuff like that. 06:47 Most of that stuff isn't evergreen anyway, because, like an explainer video, for example, the company's branding may change, the name of the company may change, the product, the service, the widget may change, so they're going to need a new explainer video. 07:03 If they have just like one explainer video which is parked on their website and their social media channels just saying we are this company, this is what we do, in two, three years, maybe five at most, they're going to need a new video and they may go to you and they may go to somebody else. But when you see non-broadcast in perpetuity, you want to be smart about it. You want to give it some form of shelf life, and that's a big part of this conversation, anne is how do you communicate this? How do you educate your clients? By explaining, like look, in a few years you're going to need a new one of these anyway, because I've noticed that for like non-broadcast, most of them want it in perpetuity, not because they want to synthesize your voice or because they want to hose you financially, it's just because they just don't want to be bothered. They just want to do this and it's done, and it's there and now they can go focus on other things. 07:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, they say that it's theirs. 07:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) And they say it's theirs. For non-broadcast genres there's a whole bunch of different ways to charge. Sometimes you charge by the finished minute. If it's an audio book, you charge by the finished hour. If it's long form e-learning modules, you could get paid by the word. 08:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, I mean, those are the big ones there used to be per page but I don't remember the last time I got paid per page and you know what. I'll be completely honest, tom, I don't remember the last time I quoted an e-learning module on a per word basis, because most of the companies or most of the people that I'm working with I'm not on a roster that is paying on a per word basis or working with an instructional e-learning company, that usually is on a per word basis. 08:31 Whenever I get e-learning clients, I always price them on a per hour, per finished hour basis and I get paid the same for e-learning as I do for corporate pretty much. 08:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, I mean they're both informational, non-broadcast, so in the broadest brushstrokes they're pretty much the same genre-wise, with the exception that e-learning is usually used to train students and new employees and corporate is for internal communications, like an HR video or a memo, or here's how you pick your employee benefits, and stuff like that. 09:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or even a corporate narration video. That's what I meant. Corporate training and e-learning to me is the same. Do you know what I mean? Corporate training and academic e-learning rates are the same to me, except most educational institutions can't afford what a company can Right. 09:15 It's harder for them to get the money, but I think one thing that I want to emphatically tell the bosses out there that are just beginning for non-broadcast is that really every job is unique and we don't always have a rate guide to go to, and it's up to you as a business person to understand what would be an acceptable market rate for that and price it accordingly to that and also know your worth because, again, like you had mentioned before, you think that just because you're newer, you should charge less, and that is probably not the. That is not the way I would be thinking about it at all as a new person into the industry. Because you're being paid for your voice right, you're being paid for your voice. You can get just as much as I can or Tom can for that voice. It is your business. 10:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. Here's the thing about that is that a lot of my students immediately devalue themselves. Yeah, and you shouldn't do that to yourself, because, think about it on the other side of the equation is that if you're a voice seeker, do you care how long the voice actors have been doing voiceover Really? I mean in the abstract. Well, of course we would like an experienced narrator, but when it comes down to the audition, within two, three seconds, either they like you or you don't. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing voiceover. 10:43 Now there is obviously a correlation between the ability to tell a story effectively and how long you've been doing this. But ultimately, if you've got quality training from Anne and a quality demo and that demo is submitted and you've been trained by Anne to audition effectively for projects, I'd say 90, 95% of the time, it's a level playing field. Regardless of how long you've been trained by Anne to audition effectively for projects, I'd say 90, 95% of the time, it's a level playing field regardless of how long you've been in the industry, and I agree with you there, completely agree with you. 11:10 So you take that data point and then you extrapolate that. Well, if that's the case, then that means everybody should get paid the same who's auditioning for that, because if one of my students auditions for an e-learning project and I audition for an e-learning project, if I book it, I shouldn't necessarily get paid more than they should. 11:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree with that, completely agree with that. Again, they're paying for the voice. They're not necessarily paying for the experience. However, in dealing with the client, your level of experience might have a part in it because after you get the job, in order to maybe keep the job or have the person keep coming back, that's where your experience and customer service comes into play and that's where I feel that you can command. And again, you can command just as much if you can give them a good experience. 12:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. This is what I tell my students is that your talent will book you the first gig with a client. Your project management skills will book you the next gig with the same client, because if me and a student are auditioning for the same gig and they book it. Great, they should get the same that I get, but then they better deliver the goods, communicate the retake policy, understand how to use their DAW, understand how to edit and deliver the audio files, being able to take direction if it's a live setting those are skills that. 12:31 Yes, there is a correlation between your experience level and the ability to execute good project management, but if you work with Anne or if you work with myself, part of our jobs is to teach you that and how to be able to be professional and communicate effectively and do all those things, because it's not just getting the first gig, it's getting the next gig and the next gig and the next gig without auditioning. 12:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly. And it's funny because it reminds me of a conversation I had in my Voices in Podcasting Clubhouse the other day with Jodi Krangel and Cheryl Holling, where we got into this discussion about acting right, because a lot of coaches these days will say it's more important now more than ever to have your acting skills so that you can separate yourself from the synthetic voices. And Jodi said you know, I don't know if I'm completely convinced about that, because in reality it also has to do with your customer service. And I'm like, yeah, well, you've got to get the gig first right, which is your auditioning talents and your performance talents and your acting talents are going to get you the gig. 13:34 Then what's going to help you keep it is going to be that customer service that business aspect that you just mentioned, in order to keep them coming back and then commanding that good rate, moving forward. 13:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) And that's when it comes into so for the audition, to book the audition it's about your talent and your storytelling ability. After that, it's about your ability to manage the project effectively. Because, also, if you can demonstrate that you can deliver the goods and do it quickly and do it right, then, yeah, you're in a better position to command higher rates and slash. Or you're in a position to just get more bookings without having to audition for this end client that you got that initial gig with and other end clients at this production company or recording studio or ad agency or marketing firm or political production company or explainer production company has they're like yeah, you work with Ann. Ann delivered the goods on this series of explainer videos. She can do that for you and your series of explainer videos too. So it's not just about getting as much as you can for the project in question, it's about delivering the goods so you can get paid over and over and, over and over again. 14:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And aren't those the best jobs? 14:46 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, we all want regular clients, like everybody, everybody, in every part of the country. 14:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You don't have to audition for them, that just takes out a complete amount of steps. And it's funny because I think for me and for my business right. I'm always telling people you always have to cultivate new leads, because if you've been in the business for a long time, undoubtedly you'll probably have repeat clients. Right, tom? You must have lots and lots and lots of repeat clients Many, many, many, many, many repeat clients and me too, and I'm grateful for them. 15:10 but I always have to be cultivating the new clients as well, and that means I have to really continually assess and understand rates and what I should charge and understand my worth in the current market, in the current market. 15:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, my friend Adam Werner, audiobook narrator, fellow FAFCon attendee. He taught me about client churn, which is every quarter. I look at all of the voiceover gigs that I booked and all the clients that I worked with and the genres that I booked and how I got the gig whether it was through my representation, whether it was through an online casting site and whether it was through my self-marketing strategies and I look to see how many new clients did I gain and I keep a very close eye on how many new clients I'm getting, because if I'm getting a regular stream of new clients, that means my marketing strategies are working well, yes, yes and your marketing strategies. 16:03 Is your self-marketing strategy? Cold calls, cold emails, indirect marketing, social media, blogging, whatever. But also, am I just auditioning better through my representation? Am I auditioning better through my online casting sites? Because clients are just going to naturally go away, they're going to retire, they're going to go out of business, they're going to change their business model. 16:23 They're going to hire their nephew who wants to do musical theater, to do their phone greets. And now you're out. Ai is going to replace and already has replaced some of us voice actors. For certain clients, that's just going to naturally happen. So you always want to keep the till full. 16:39 Yep, yep, absolutely absolutely want to keep the till full, yep, yep, absolutely, absolutely, and making sure that you understand what you're worth in today's current landscape on a per word, per finished minute, per finished hour, per studio hour. You always want to keep an eye on that, yeah. So how do you keep an eye on that, anne? How do you keep an eye on current rates? What are your go-tos? What are your habits? 16:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, my current rates. I actually make sure that I check the rate guides frequently because they're continually being updated by people more than me out in the industry. Back in the day I was a core contributor to the GVAA rate guide and I think you were too Tom like e-learning and corporate and telephony and medical and those were the rates that I helped with on that rate guide. I make sure that I'm continually assessing those rate guides, but I'm also assessing the market. I mean, I work in the market and so I do a lot of research on the client and I try to understand, like, where else could they be going for potential business or another voice, and how can I remain competitive with that voice? And so how do I keep myself current? It's continual research, really, and assessment with the rate guide and some of it, honestly, is just pulling it out of the air. That is really what happens Sometimes. It's nowhere to be found and you just have to use your best judgment. Always use your negotiation 101 tactics on asking what is the budget? 18:06 That's like the most important first question I think you can ask a client. 18:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Do they have a? 18:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) budget, and if they have a budget, can you work within that? 18:13 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, my go-to's is just looking at my agent casting notices and looking at my online casting site casting notices yes, yes, yes. 18:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Market assessment notices. And looking at my online casting site casting notices Market assessment. 18:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) Market assessment and what Ann does and what I do. You should be doing both of those. You should be doing both of those because when you get a casting notice from your representation, it's been pre-negotiated. They've already gone through the rigmarole of negotiating with that particular client, so what you get is most likely the finished product of what the actual rate is going to be for that project. So that will let you know, because, along with that casting notice, in addition to the rates, is the specs, the session fee, the usage fee, the market, the exclusivity and conflicts and the rate of usage, how long it's going to be used for. So you can use that to greatly inform your broadcast rate sheets. And then for non-broadcast, looking at the online casting sites and just noticing trends in e-learning versus corporate, versus explainer, versus telephony, versus medical versus voice of. 19:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God. And in order to do that, in order to do that, do you need to be a member, tom? I know, because some of them will post job rates without you necessarily actually being a paid member if you're a free member, but I believe you've got to be a paid member to get that information these days. 19:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) For places like Voice 123, I believe you won't have access to the casting notices unless you're on the tier, because the only way you'll get them is if they make it to your inbox, and the only way it makes it to your inbox is having a subscription tier, unless you have a free site, a free membership and some casting notices come in and some say here's the jobs you missed and here's the money. 19:53 Right, voicescom, I think you can run searches but you can't audition unless you're a paid member. But you know what? There's other places to go. I mean you could look at Backstage and Badalgo and Casting Call Club, even Twitter. Now Casting Call Club and Twitter, there tend to be lower no-pay jobs, which is why a lot of voice actors early in their journey go to Casting Call Club because it gives themselves a great opportunity to kind of develop their audition skills, their rate negotiation skills, build up their portfolio, resume, genre awareness and confidence, all of which are extremely, extremely important things. But if you're able to hit the ground running and you have more resources at your disposal which I've got, a pay-to-play site like a voice123 or voicescom you can get a much better idea of what current trends in the rate structure is for voiceover gigs. 20:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know what's so interesting. What I'm hearing from you, interestingly enough, is not just understanding the rate guide and then understanding the principles of negotiation and what you're worth, but also your audition techniques, right. Auditioning techniques, it's a first impression, right. And so if you're looking to command a particular rate for a job, even if you don't get a job that you've auditioned for right, you're submitting auditions into your agent and you're just, you're nailing time after time after time, or you're nailing the auditions in the pay to play, right, you're getting consistent in people's minds and that is building your value. 21:16 And it's interesting because when people come to me and they say I want to get a corporate demo or I to get a medical demo or I want an e-learning demo, I've, over the years, evolved into the type of coach that is really coaching how to do the audition to get the gig first, because, honestly, we all can do that. Read, that's a really pleasant, nice read. You know that's reading the words, but it takes acting skills to really tell the story. And so I really work on building up students' storytelling skills and acting skills and that, I feel, is going to command you the higher rate. 21:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, I've got some numbers for you. 21:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know you love your numbers, I do, I do, I do. Tell me Okay. 21:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) In 2019, I auditioned roughly 400 times. Okay 1% of my voiceover revenue came from representation. 18% came from casting sites. I wasn't on any paid casting sites back then. Fast forward to all of 2019, 5 years later, 2023, I did 1,854 auditions. My online casting site revenue percentage grew from 18% to 50%. 22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, that's incredible. 22:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) My representation revenue percentage went from 1% to 12%. Wow, that's incredible, and my overall revenue increased by 20%. 22:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now, what would you say that was due to then? 22:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Auditioning Auditioning right and auditioning skills. 22:43 Getting my reps in on specifically Voice123. And you can hear, if you haven't watched our casting site VO Boss Video, go check that out. You'll hear me talk about Voice123 in severe detail, about my voiceover journey, the fact that I was auditioning so much on pay-to-play sites I was just getting better at auditioning. I was auditioning so much on pay-to-play sites I was just getting better at auditioning, which meant when I was getting those agent and manager-driven auditions, I was just getting better at auditioning there too and as a result, I booked more gigs and I booked better gigs. 23:12 So, if nothing else, don't put all of these things into separate buckets or silos, pass judgment on them and ignore them, or covet one and ignore the other. It's through data and money I've shown that the online casting site portal and the representation portal are clearly linked. There was clearly a synergistic relationship between the quality and quantity of my auditions on Voice123 and the quality and quantity of my audition efforts through my agents and managers. I love that you're backing it up with the numbers and quantity of my auditions on voice one, two, three and the quality and quantity of my audition efforts through my agents and managers. 23:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you're backing it up with the numbers, because I mean, it's so easy right To point the finger and say, oh well, pay to play suck, or there's too many people on the pay to plays, or the pay to plays are bottom feeders. And so, therefore, I didn't get to the audition on time, which you know that plays a certain part in it. 24:03 But also it could be like my agent keeps sending me the same auditions to everyone. So it's easy to point the finger and lay blame. But I'll tell you what a lot of times, if you can increase your audition skills, you can increase your net worth, you can increase the rate that you can ask for. It's kind of like this what came first, the chicken or the egg, the audition or the value right that you can charge your potential client? I mean, honestly, it just goes hand in hand. If you are a better actor, if you are a better auditioner and that's going to require an investment, typically in working hard with maybe a performance coach that can give you good feedback. Because if you're like I don't know what's happening, the pay-to-plays suck these days. I'm not getting any work or my agent is not getting me work, and I hate it when people blame their agents for not getting them work. 24:50 It really is up to you to put in that investment into your business so that you can audition better and then command those better rates. 24:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Absolutely so. Creating a rate sheet from scratch or using the SAG-AFTRA guidelines or using the Global Voice Acting Academy rate guides is an important thing to understand what is a voice actor's worth in relation to the genres and the broadcast versus non-broadcast market. But I'll be honest. I mean, yes, I have had rate sheets that I built from scratch and talked to other voice actors over the past 15, 20 years, but these days I don't really look at it anymore. I just kind of just know, through repetition, what I'm worth, what the genre is worth, what the gig is worth based on the broadcast or non-broadcast usage. Is it going to just be in a museum exhibition or is it going to be on a corporate website that has 10,000 employees? 25:40 After a while you just kind of get the hang of it, but that does not help our bosses who are early in their voiceover journey. So bookmark that SAG-AFTRA rates, Bookmark that GVAA. Have your own little Google Doc. Keep track of the agent auditions that you get if you have representation. Keep track of the online casting site audition rates. Just start to note them. Just make a little simple spreadsheet Genre rate terms. 26:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did that right in the beginning of my career. It was like audition. Where did the audition come from? Did I book the gig? What was the price? Literally? That can really help establish for you rates to charge and just make sure that you're keeping up with those rates and really doing some market research. If you're new to the industry, those rate guides use them as a guide only. That doesn't mean that they're the be-all, end-all of what you as a business owner should charge. But I would say, rather than going to the lower number because you want the client right, make sure that that number is well within what you are worth. And just because you started just recently doesn't mean that you can't command the same rate that Tom and I can. 26:47 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, and here's the thing about that is that the lowest bid doesn't always book the gig. It does not always. It does not always win. 26:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I get nervous when I buy things that are too cheap. Then I'm like oh, I don't know about the quality of this Right, because you know there's going to be. 27:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, there may be a lack of quality. I mean, think of it this way Like my wife and I were just in the big Macy's flagship store a couple weeks ago to see the Macy's flower show, and we walked through the departments and you see, like on the top floor of Macy's is the luggage and you luggage and you've got five different suitcase sets. The first few are worth $100 and then the last one is worth $400. What are the ones people are going to look at first? They're going to be like why is this one $400? What is it that gives it more value than the other ones? 27:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'll tell you something too Sometimes I can't believe I'm going to admit this like on the air top as a female when I go shopping clothes shopping right and they have huge, huge sales. When there's like bins of clothing that are slashed 70%, sometimes that's almost too overwhelming and exhausting. And now that the prices have been slashed so much, I'm like I don't know people have been handling these clothes. I don't know. Are they not in fashion anymore? I question everything right. 27:58 Oh my gosh, they're so low, yeah, why are there so many of those in the bin of the same like style? Is that because it's not in style? And then I question all the other aspects of it. The quality, is it in style? And so, literally I will. To save my brain the overwhelm of low prices, I will go to the stuff that is priced higher and it's usually presented much nicer right and it's less overwhelming. Think about your voiceover right. Think about your voice and presenting it in a way that you are worthy, right. You are worthy of commanding that price. You are worthy of the elegant luxury brand of that voice, right and people paying that money. There is such an attraction to that for a lot of buyers it's like a psychological aspect. 28:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, look, look, vo bosses. If you have gotten your training, if you have gotten your demos, if you've built your website, if you have your home recording studio set up and you have a rate sheet built, you're worth it. Yeah, absolutely, you are worth it. You are worth it and you have a rate sheet built, you're worth it. Yeah, absolutely, you are worth it. You are worth it and you are worthy, yes, absolutely Good stuff. 29:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We could go on and on and on about this, but I find, tom, when I talk to you, like our podcasts run a little bit long because we have so much to talk about. You're so easy to talk to. 29:14 - Tom Dheere (Host) Aw, you too. 29:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, Tom, for the wonderful, wonderful, sensible business head that you have. I absolutely love, love, love our sessions together and, bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, that allows me to connect with Tom and talk numbers, because I love to do that, and all sorts of other wonderful business things that we should know as voice actors. You can find out more at IPDTLcom, tom. Thanks again so much. I just love our sessions together and I can't wait till our next one. 29:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me back. 29:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bosses, have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye. 29:52 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at V? O bosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business Like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.

Get ready for an epic conversation with the one and only Jon Bailey, the voice behind Honest Trailers and one of the voices of Optimus Prime. Jon shares his unique journey into voice acting, from his unexpected start and overcoming the early hurdles of being labeled "just a YouTube voice" to establishing himself as a renowned actor in the industry. We discuss the importance of performance background and how platforms like YouTube have become integral to shaping modern voice-acting careers. Authenticity and resilience are the cornerstones of lasting success in the entertainment industry. This episode illuminates how maintaining a genuine persona can inspire others, with practical advice on consistency, branding, and leveraging mentorship. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzacom. 00:24 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza. 00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to have a very special guest in the studio with me today Epic voice guy of the four-time Emmy-nominated Honest Trailers, the sixth voice of Optimus Prime and over 20 other Transformer characters and voices for Marvel, disney and many, many more and the credit list just goes on and on, but this is a finite amount of time that I have with you, so I am going to let you talk. Welcome, Jon Bailey. 01:17 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you. It's good to see you again after 100 years. I said 500. 01:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yes, we go way back. At least we were just discussing it like 16 years it is. I said 500. So, yes, we go way back. At least we were just discussing it like 16 years, gosh, when you first got into voiceover and I have watched you over the years become this incredible success. Bosses I mean, this is the VO Boss podcast. We are talking very boss-like. We are talking very boss-like strategies and hard work. Jon, I am so, so happy for all of your successes and so proud of you, my gosh, because I know in the beginning it was a struggle for you. So maybe for the bosses I don't know anybody that probably doesn't know who you are, but in case they don't, tell us a little bit about how you got into the world of voice acting, it's good to be back. 02:06 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you for having me back on. It's been a hot second. Yeah, it was all kind of accidental. I had background in performance from school, all the way from, I would say, kindergarten, through college and public speaking and improv and things like that. 02:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In fact, I think that's how we met is through Rebecca's love. That, oh, yes, that's right. Oh my gosh, I feel like that had something to do with it. 02:27 - Jon Bailey (Host) It's been so long ago I don't 100% remember, but I feel like that may have been how we connected. So that was back in my R&D days, which was two years before I even did anything professionally and, like you had said, before, we started the show. Seriously, I would go in, for my first manager kind of found me on the Internet by accident because I'd started YouTube out of boredom. 02:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) really, Little did you know? 02:49 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah well, the main reason why I did it was because I saw other people taking old cartoons and dubbing over them and making funny things out of them. I was like, well, that's what I wanted to do. If they can do it, then why can't I do that? And I had this small following just based off the comedy stuff that I put together involving Transformers and the movie trailer voice, the inner world guy and my first manager, family from that video. And then I ran into the problem with him, like he pitched me to Sony because I would feel like we've heard your voice before and something. I'm like, oh, cool. I was like, well, I did this little tiny thing online and caught on his trailers and they, oh, because you're not a real voice actor, you're a YouTube voice actor. And I was like there's a difference. 03:30 And it's so funny how much just changed in a decade, because now that's considered a major platform. 03:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That is what is so impressive, Jon. You just forged through, because I remember that they're like oh yeah, honest Australia's. You're not a real voice. I remember that and I remember your struggles and your frustration with that, and you have like a trillion followers. I mean literally. 03:50 - Jon Bailey (Host) Not that I'm inflating. 03:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you got what? 03:52 - Jon Bailey (Host) over a million, over a million, yeah, combined across all platforms, which is impressive. For voice actors, yeah, who haven't been the main character in some major popular anime or cartoon or whatever game? I kind of coined the phrase recently where it's like I'm the guy everyone's heard but no one's heard of, right. 04:10 Because I'm so in everything like my manager, my agents, whoever, or sometimes just directly from the clients. They just throw everything at me and I'm just willing to give everything a shot. I know that can't hurt to try, so as long as it doesn't violate my personal faith. There's some things I'm just like no. And other things I'm like well, I'll check it out, but I can't make any promises and some stuff. I'm just like you know, don't bother me with this stuff because I'm not going to work on it. 04:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so you've worked on such a wide range of projects. I mean, what would you say, say I mean outside of? I know in the beginnings were really like getting started and getting your feet wet and getting known. Talk about some of the biggest challenges that you've had as a voice actor, because, gosh, we all run into what we think are challenges. But I feel like just with the amount of exposure and the amount that you've grown over the years, I mean your challenges I feel must equal almost sometimes your follower size. 05:04 - Jon Bailey (Host) I think my challenge is there's been a lot of them, but I'd say if I had to narrow it down for an interview with you, I would say that you really need to have some organization to your personal life, because if you don't have the availability for this job, you're wasting your time because you really can't do anything else. 05:24 You have to find a way to work around their schedule instead of your own and be available for them, and that often leads to that thing between voice actors where it's like why did they get the job instead of me? Well, it might've been because they had a home studio and you didn't, and they had immediate availability and you didn't. Or they might've decided to move to a town like Los Angeles rather than the middle of nowhere, because sometimes it doesn't matter how great you are for the job, it really doesn't. For some reason, some people out here are just too scared of change and they would rather have a real human person that can show up at their studio at a specific time and day and record the thing. And unfortunately, you have to sacrifice a lot. I mean, you have to kind of give up your freedom, so to speak, and I'm thankful that technology has changed, where there's mobile options now, where I don't feel like I'm stuck in this particular physical space 24-7. 06:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I was just going to ask how much do you actually go in studio now? 06:21 - Jon Bailey (Host) Still probably more than me, I would say it's more than it used to be only because I'm booking more, but I would still say, you know, 90% of the time it's still here. In fact a good percentage is. Just to look at the bookings for this coming week, I have four bookings the first week of June and half of those are in studio and half of those are home studio. So it sometimes varies, but I would say the majority of the time I still feel like the majority of it is here. But certain projects they really want to work with just the studios that they've already recording all their other actors at, because they want the quality to sound the same. It makes sense to me, but at the same time people's home technology has gotten so good they don't really need it anymore. 06:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) COVID kind of proved that. Yeah, exactly Now. Did you have to do any upgrade? I'm sure you probably had a great studio already, but did you have to do any upgrading to your studio? 07:08 - Jon Bailey (Host) I mean it's still the same booth. It always was this one I've had, for I would say I've had this one for at least five or six years. Todd Haberkorn's misfortune was my fortune. He got this booth for his place, which is not too far from here, and he moved here from West Hollywood, which it fit perfectly fine in his old place, but it just happened to be a few inches too big for his new place. So he had to sell it for a third of what they normally run and I'm like well, I can make payments. 07:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And he was cool with that. 07:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) He just wanted to get rid of it because it takes up so much space and it's so heavy and so bulky and big. It's bigger than I need. It's an 8x4 and I don't recommend anything bigger than 4x4. But the truth is you really don't have to have a booth that looks like yours, no offense, but it looks beautiful on camera. That's great. 07:52 That's one of the main reasons why I had it, because if I want to make content and look like a pro, it needs to look like a pro. And no matter how great the audio quality is, no matter how many studios or clients that you've worked for, when it looks like the inside of a closet you don't look like a very good pro and I guarantee people out there it sounds better in that ugly closet than it does in that fancy studio of yours. Even the guys from VoiceOver Body Shop they recommend you don't have to have a whisper room, you can just have that freaking closet. But I figure that half my career is content creation. Freaking closet, but I figure that half my career is content creation. Half my career has been voiceover, so it might as well upgrade that because the opportunity presented itself for such a low price. 08:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I agree with you that image, I mean, it's how you present yourself really. 08:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) They don't teach you about how much branding is important. 08:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Back in our day, when we first started. 08:40 - Jon Bailey (Host) Branding was not part of the education. It was all about the voiceover, the career. They never really talked about, like your social media presence or having a color scheme. Well, you were developing that. We were still figuring it out. 08:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We were, and I remember like first time physically meeting you at a VO Peeps meetup. We were talking about how important it is to start branding and things were just getting popular on the internet. They were starting gosh. We're talking back in our day when we walked to school 10 miles. I know it's funny, that was only 10 years ago I know, I know, and it's incredible how it's grown. 09:12 And you know, you mentioned content creation, which, wow, I mean, like I said, you were ahead of your time back in the day on YouTube, and so I concur, yeah, you were ahead of your time, and I like to think of myself as being a little ahead of my time because I was broadcasting from my living room back when people weren't broadcasting on the Internet. 09:31 My VOP's made up and, that being said, I feel like we're kind of pioneers together, forging our own little paths in our business, which is why I'm so excited that we're talking today and you mentioned content creation. So let's talk a little bit about content creation and what it takes for you on a day-to-day basis, creating the content that you do, because, gosh, I've been following you for the longest time. And then I have another question that I'm going to talk about in a minute, because you have transformed. Not only have you voiced transformers, but you have transformed yourself. But let's talk a little bit about content creation and how important it is for bosses today and people wanting to build a successful business. What does content creation mean for that business? 10:11 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, the one thing I learned and I have always been a trial and error person People always ask me every freaking day. I would have said you need to find reliable, trustworthy coaches that are affordable and just get coaching, instead of trying to do this the cheap, free way and learning it all the hard way through trial and error and just free research on the internet. 10:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It can be done. 10:39 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'm proof that it could be done, because I didn't get any coaching until I'd already been at this job for like almost a decade and I just didn't see the point because I'd been. Unfortunately, a few not so great coaches can ruin it for everybody else. I'm like I don't hear anything here that I couldn't find on the internet. 10:55 I personally have a theory that when we got started, people were gatekeeping the information. I think people were only telling they were so insecure in their own careers they were afraid if they shared this information, this is going to create more competition, which is going to screw me out of work, and I don't think that this is the kind of career where you should have to worry about that because it's so freaking huge. There is enough room for everybody in this job. 11:19 And if you're great at the job and you do a good job and you take the time to grow your brand and create content, do all the things that you need to do in order to be able to show what you're capable of, you'll be able to get work. There's no doubt in my mind. I've always been kind of ahead of my time, but I've been that guy that like I'll do it and until some huge voice actor does the same exact thing after they've seen me do it, then all of a sudden it becomes popular. I was one of the first voice actors to stream my own video games on Twitch. It didn't really go anywhere and I was like you know what and I told a few other voice actors about it. I said this is a great idea. Now all of them are actually making a separate income from doing the same thing I was doing, but nobody even showed up for me. 11:57 I was also one of the few people out there like I should create content about what I do, or just do career centered content. That's entertaining slash, maybe a little informational way to show what I do, just to promote myself. Because the thing, like I started off, the thing that I learned by making content, was that your representation. They will never represent you as well as you can represent yourself. And when I found out that my agents only just get the auditions and sometimes they'll have some relationship with clients and they'll pitch you to somebody they're never going to know you until you get out there and show them who you are. So take whatever thing that you do and just formulate your content around what you're best at, whether you're best at creating creatures or you're best at doing impressions. Whatever Impressions won't get you anywhere in professional voice of a career. 12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) but they're fantastic for content. 12:48 - Jon Bailey (Host) That's not the advice I got 12 years ago. I was told you will never get anywhere in this business doing impressions. That's not true, because you can grow a brand and all of a sudden you're so popular Clients can't do anything except they can't ignore you once you have millions of followers and you're like, oh man, we should hire this guy because people will buy our brand or at least consider our product or service or whatever, just because this guy has so many people. 13:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I love that. 13:15 - Jon Bailey (Host) So growing your brand and making content is a way for you to represent yourself and not just sit back and sit on your hands and wait for your agents to do it, because they're not. Your representation's primary job is to make you look good and let people know what you're booking even if they didn't book it for you, and get you auditions and opportunities. They're not out there promoting you specifically, they're not putting out visual audio demos of you doing stuff and working on things, and everything is content Everything. 13:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now question for you because you create so much content and now that you have so many followers, I would imagine yes, of course. Now you're getting sponsorships. You're getting people who want you to talk about their things, because you do have a big follower base. Do your agents have control over the type of content? How careful do you have to be now creating your content? 14:00 - Jon Bailey (Host) I think that agents representatives have to be careful depending on their talent. I think if their talent is smart and they're wise, obviously they're going to hit me up and say you can't post that, you need to take that and sometimes I just have to kind of self regulate. 14:15 I'll give you a perfect example of that. There was a project that was coming out and I thought it would be funny to make a prank video because it's a project that I have been known to work for in the past. So for an April Fool's joke, I created a fake thing for this thing and posted it on the Internet and all of a sudden it reached a point because my content has gotten so big and my career has grown so much that people were using that as a potential news leak of some nondisclosure stuff. I'm like oh crap, I've reached the point where I can't just be regular Joe fan that makes funny stuff for the internet. And then they're like oh, that's so. 14:54 I had to be way more thoughtful and because of, like I said, I learned everything the hard way because of some NDA scares and because of some reprimands from some agents in the past. Over the last decade and a half I've learned like what is okay and what's not, and I'm just always very careful because it does help. I've been working for Hasbro for eight years. Eight years I've been doing voices for the same company, for the same franchise, and only within the last couple of years? Did they even know I was working for them? 15:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow. 15:15 - Jon Bailey (Host) Because when you have a massive corporation they drop down all those little jobs down to other companies that are lower on the pole. So they can just like look, we're just going to license this brand out to you. You tell us what you're going to make, you do the entire production, We'll approve, and then you know it's got our official stamp on it. They have no idea who's working for them. So when I get out there and I start making content, I'm really starting to push something like Transformers, for example, because I remember that. 15:39 I do remember that, so they'll send me products or they'll send me news, information or images, digital assets whatever to repost because it makes sense for me, and the more that I do that, the more that people are associating me with my favorite brands that I already work for or it's making other companies go wow, he does a really good job for them. As long as there's no conflict between clients, maybe we should get them to check out our stuff or whatever. So, for example, for Transformers specifically, I have probably four different companies that send me stuff that I don't have to pay for, that I can make content with, or I can resell or give away. There's a lot of different ideas that you can do. You just have to think outside the box. 16:37 It's all about thinking outside the box and doing the best you can to represent yourself in a way where your reps don't have to worry about what you make because they're afraid that you're like oh my gosh, you said you're not a chub on that, I mean, I even had to think about that whenever it came to anything marvel related, because when I started booking sound likes for some of these actors for marvel, I'm like does that mean I can't make comedy, marvel content or whatever, because that might be a spoiler for something that I don't even know about because I'm not working on a project. But I feel like anything I'm doing to help it boils down to this. This is the very, very important part. It boils down to only doing positive things about the clients, brands, products, whatever that you want to work with or that you're a fan of, whatever Because let's just say you like. 17:18 Snickers. If you like Snickers, you don't want to do negative Snickers things. You want to show yourself eating a Snickers, show yourself talking about Snickers, making funny things based on Snickers, and eventually you get enough followers and enough people are like this is really funny, this is really entertaining. This makes me like Snickers. This makes me want to support you by getting whatever. Eventually, snickers is like hey, you know what, we'll send you some free Snickers, send you money in a brand deal. The important part is to do it positive. Don't do anything negative about a brand that you like. 17:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was just going to ask you. There's the other side of the coin, where any publicity is good publicity, so sometimes negative. 17:52 - Jon Bailey (Host) True, but I feel like you're playing it safe and smart if you just stick to only things that, for example, if something comes out, that's not that great, but it's for a company that I like. That's the truth. But it's also about growing your brand, about being seen by enough people to be considered like, oh, and it's also about showing all the things that you do, whether it's your skill set, whether it's your sense of humor, whether it's just your perfect, whatever it is that you're doing it helps them understand like this person has all these positive traits that we like. We would like to continue to work with them, or we'd like to start working with them. 18:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. I like that a lot. 18:34 - Jon Bailey (Host) The whole Mint Mobile ad with Ryan Reynolds. It did not come from my voiceover stuff, it came directly as a result of social media stuff. I was one of the first people out there doing an impression of Ryan Reynolds, because I've seen people out there doing impressions for decades. They started doing it on YouTube when it was first brand new a thing. People were trying to do it as some kind of bit where it's like here's this tiny little cartoon picture in the corner and here's one second of me doing this character. Like I could do 500 cartoon characters in three minutes. And I was like, okay, I see what you're doing, but it's also terrible. It doesn't mean you're a good voice actor, it just means you've made clever content that a lot of people watched. 19:09 But wouldn't it be better, instead of doing those impressions, to just take your skill set and promote yourself in a different way and do something nobody else is doing? So I started looking. It's like man, my gosh. All these voices are old. These characters are ridiculously ancient. It's always Mickey Mouse and Kermit the Frog and stuff that anybody pretty much could do, because the guys who came up with those characters they didn't want to stray so far from their own voices. They were just doing whatever. So I was like you know what? I should just look at who's popular right now, who's the number one top dogs right now? So I started looking at the A-listers. I'm like nobody's doing Chris Hemsworth Nobody's doing Ryan Reynolds. 19:43 Nobody's doing. 19:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All of a sudden. 19:51 - Jon Bailey (Host) Now everybody's copying that pattern. It's just one of the first out there and because I did such a good job with Ryan Reynolds' voice and I made positive, funny, entertaining content, it eventually got the attention of Maximum Effort who reached out to my agents, said we really like Jon, we have this funny idea. We don't really know what we're going to do yet, but we'd them on commercial. There's a good paycheck for it involved, also good social media. Because he's smart enough to know, because Maximum Effort is very good about this. They think like I do. They're like there's a potential for this stuff. It's all in the internet and how you present this More people to see that than you can by throwing this up on a television commercial. So, yeah, it just kind of became that formulation of is it positive? Does it show off my skill set well, does it make me look like we should work with this guy and want to work with this brand? Would this brand be like? This is a unique or entertainer insert thing here of a way to promote our product. We'd like to work with this guy more or continue to work with him. So, yeah, it's going to be, became the whole mindset and the main goal was always not to make money from. 20:49 I make hardly any money from social media, just next to nothing, because the primary goal was not to make money. If I wanted to monetize, there's a very particular set of rules that you have to follow in order to make money from social media. My goal was to get more eyeballs on it, get more followers, because at some point you want to be indispensable, you want to be invaluable to people and like well with me. Not only do you get 16 years of professional experience, all these credits, all these working with all these great companies or clients or studios or whatever. You also get somebody with over a million followers on social media who will promote your project and make content about it for no extra money, just because that's what he already does, because that also helps. It's a cycle. It helps me get bigger, which helps me book more jobs which helps me get bigger, which helps me get more jobs. 21:32 It all works together and it does kind of feel like you're working half your time for free, but that's why you should do things you enjoy. Make your content something that you enjoy, based on things that you like. Just build it around your skillset around your talent. 21:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, I love that and I love the whole positive spin that you put on things, as well as authenticity. To take a moment to talk about authenticity you have been very authentic, having known you for so many years now, about things like in your personal life, like your transformation right In your family, and so let's talk a little bit about what authenticity means as well in terms of I feel as though it's not a put on to get more followers. I just really identify with you through your stories. I think you and I have a similar story about, let's say, our body change, our health. We've transformed a little bit in that way, and I've seen a lot of posts from you about that and also stuff about personal struggles that you've had. Let's talk for a moment about the authenticity and how important that is. 22:30 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, I think you should keep the majority of your personal life offline. Nobody needs to know all your personal business. But I do feel like, when people have been supporting you for so long, they feel an attachment to your story and to you and they want to root for you. They want to be in your corner, they want to see you succeed. Some of them even live vicariously through you. But a lot of people are just looking for inspiration. They're looking for somebody else to give them justification for whatever it is that they're going to decide to do, and when they see somebody like me give up, it makes them want to give up. When they see somebody like me keeping on and pushing on and just never quitting, it makes them not want to give up. 23:09 I inspire other people and, as a person of faith, that's kind of half the reason why I do what I do, because I feel like it's better to be genuine and be yourself, because if you have to mask, eventually it'll all fall apart. You won't be able to keep that up for forever because it's not really you. Jim Carrey's talked about this a lot because he used to be that guy. He thought he had to be like this all the time. That was a persona that he created. It was just a different version of himself where he literally was not Jim Carrey, he was whatever character he was portraying. 23:38 That was Jim Carrey. And when he finally dropped the mask and started being himself, he felt better. And yeah, he's not a super energetic I mean, he's still funny, but he's not that crazy, energetic, over-the-top, ridiculous guy all the time. He's actually just a normal human being who happens to have a very clever mind and sense of humor, et cetera, et cetera. And he talks all the time about how the word depressed has the words deep rest in it and how our brains can't keep up with that fake facade. 24:05 And I know exactly what he's talking about, because my personal life is not rainbows and skittles all the time. I don't go into great detail about it, but people do know. They know that I'm on the spectrum. They know that my son is very much on the spectrum and he's had a lot of issues. They know that my home life has not always been a hundred percent fun. And they also know that financial struggles and all I go through the same thing everybody else does. 24:29 There's a really great interview with Larry King, with the actor who played Abed in Community, which is one of my favorite TV shows and I did promos for it, which is how I became a fan and he was being interviewed. 24:40 Larry King's like give me a luxury that you can't live without. He's like cup of coffee. He's like no, no, no, a luxury. He's like a warm pair of socks. He's like no, a luxury, you know. Like a private place, like I work on duck tails, larry. It's like people don't get that. We're struggling just as much as I don't think, until the strike came forward. This feels like the first time ever that a strike has actually finally got people to realize we don't make a lot of money, we're not sitting around floating in a pool of money and everything is fancy and expensive. 25:09 I literally live from paycheck to paycheck. I don't know how I get from point A to point B except through faith and hard work. That's all there is to it. And you have to find things that work with your schedule in order to stay in this career, because you can't just go get a grocery store job or whatever and be able to make it. You'll only be able to work when you're free. These clients don't care when you're free, they only care when they're free. So so you have to make yourself available until you get to the point where you've reached the career level, we're like no, no, no, we'll wait for you, we can reschedule for you, don't worry. That didn't used to be the case when you first start off like next, because they have a million other people that can do what you do. No-transcript, how fast they can get it done, reliability, all these different things that are factors they're going to succeed. They see that, they can just tell, and part of it is that I am a really hard freaking worker and I'm very genuine and open about. 26:09 I'm just always going and doing stuff, but it's gotten a little better with content creation wise, because while I'm still just being me, I do take the time to like look ahead and see, okay, what's coming out. What am I working on? What am I allowed to talk about? What am I not allowed to talk about? What's trending right now? Since right now, I only have this free time on Saturday, and that's it. I'm going to make a whole bunch of stuff that week, and then I'm just going to drop it online whenever I have time, rather than so. 26:34 it's not like I'm making stuff all day long, every day. I can't do that. I can't keep working for free because people don't realize if they're not sending gifts or they're donating to your social media you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart on what little spare free time you've got. I don't have all day long to stream and et cetera. Content creation is. I absolutely agree with you, it's no small feat it is a full-time job that does not pay. 26:59 No small task at all, but it does pay off in jobs, in exposure. 27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, and that's interesting. My next question was going to be what's your best tips for people starting out in the business? You just gave it to me in that last Well, I got a lot more tips than that, but I loved it because hard work and I'm going to say determination, and especially now that the industry has shifted, I mean and evolved and I think you, more than anyone, really understand how to roll with the changes and to really evolve. 27:23 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, you've brought up challenges, and that's what the challenge is that this job has become far more public. It's gotten much bigger. It was already big, but the career itself is already bigger and we have all these factors to be concerned about now, like AI replacing jobs like ADR. 27:50 And the competition has increased by a ton because now people understand technology is caught up, where you can pretty much do this anywhere with a decent Internet connection, which makes a big chunk of the industry going to be much tougher. But if you do all those things in conjunction, if you get training, get training from good, reliable coaches that are honest, trustworthy and affordable, you'll spare yourself years of research and development. Start creating a brand. I say this to people when I coach and all of a sudden it's like people realize all this stuff is just common sense stuff. 28:06 Make your profile picture Be the same. Make your bio Be the same across all your platforms. Just be consistent with making something. Find free time, bank up a bunch of free stuff. Post it when you don't have time, because you may not have time to make stuff later, but be showing what. Like I said, everything is content. If all I have time to do is be in the booth doing my job, then I'm going to record myself in the booth doing the job. 28:29 Add some different audio to it, so I don't break non-disclosure agreement when I'm recording auditions and just post something else over that and make that into a video to show people like I'm freaking, working, I'm doing this stuff here, I am in my booth, or just take a picture, do something, but make content and keep something going out there. Yes, it helps if you stay up with current trends, if you have a particular genre. I'll give you a couple of examples, because people probably think that this is just confined to well, you work in cartoons and movies. It's easy for you because you have all this stuff. That's not necessarily true. You never know which horse is going to win the race. 29:00 I would have thought that Mad Max would have been a great thing to post content about, but it's not doing as well as I thought it would do. So all the other stuff that I do content for is like okay, well, I can keep making that, but you just kind of have to keep an eye on it. But you have inspirational stuff, you have creepypastas, scary stories. There's just so many things that you can do and it be your brand, as long as you keep consistent and keep making something. And in the meantime you're doing auditions, you're out there, whatever, and as you're growing you can start adding that to like oh well, if you book me, you also get this. 29:30 I have a protege. I would love for you to interview her sometime. Her name is Hunter and she did not know what a voiceover was before she met me, but she did have performance experience. She used to be a haunter in haunts and let me tell you something it is harder to be a haunter in a haunt than it is to do stand-up comedy, Because you have an infinite amount of time that you're going to be doing this little performance. You've got about 10 minutes In a haunt. You're in there for hours coming up with characters, terrifying people, improvising, doing all the makeup and stuff yourself too. So there's on-camera stuff as well and you develop crazy skill sets that she didn't even know was a valuable skill set. She can create creature sounds that I've never heard a woman do before. 30:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've only heard Dee Bradley Baker, do what she's done. 30:13 - Jon Bailey (Host) And, like you, have any idea how special that skill is in this industry. 30:17 You need to make content and show people what you do, and especially if it's something that you can do that they cannot do and all of a sudden, within three months of just doing a little voiceover coaching with me showing you the stuff that I know after 16 years, she was booking work, which proves that you don't have to have two years to 16 years to book that kind of stuff. If you have the information and you work hard and you supply the stuff that you learn, you can book stuff right away. This industry is easy to get into. My biggest problem and I'm going to hurt a lot of people's feelings right now my biggest problem is that people come to me with their hands out and that's all they ever do hey, what can I do to blah, blah, blah. 30:52 And I tell them they're like that doesn't sound like I'm just going to be able to do it without you giving it to me. So I'm like if you don't want it, if you're not willing to work for it, then don't ask. It's not a job where you can just go get an answer and I give you a key and you go open the door and you receive the rewards for it. It took 16 years to do that, yes, yes, it can be condensed down to shorter amount of time. When you find somebody like me who coaches and I've made all those mistakes already in 16 years' time I've gone through every version of how not to do the job, then finally figured out the right way to do the job wouldn't it make sense to invest a little bit of money and save yourself a lot of years to get that information and actually use it and apply it and just work hard at the job? It's kind of like Shawshank Redemption All it takes is time and patience. 31:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Well, before we go, I do want to talk to you about your transformation. 31:42 - Jon Bailey (Host) You look amazing. 31:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I imagine you must feel great. I feel a lot better today, not so much because I injured my shoulder. 31:45 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'm sorry, that's right, but again, like I said, everything is content and I'm like you know what. A lot of people are already supportive. They want to see me succeed and I wanted to show them that if I can do something, anybody, if you just put your mind to something and you're just consistent at whether it's your health or your career or whatever, if you're just consistent at it, that's all it is. People just fall out of it because they go too hard, too fast. Whether it's your physical health or whether it's the career, they think that, okay, all I have to do is this one thing and then when it doesn't work out in a couple of months, people just quit. Or a couple of weeks, they just don't give it enough time. You don't get healthy in just a couple of weeks. 32:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It took years of back and forth and bouncing up and down, you and I both know, because we both been there. 32:25 - Jon Bailey (Host) I remember, I remember. 32:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You look like a different person too. 32:29 - Jon Bailey (Host) I've lost an entire person at this point I'm down 145 pounds. 32:33 - Intro (Host) I haven't had my biggest, I was 335. 32:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) That was around the time when you and I met I was literally that. 32:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No neck guy and my overall goal was 170 pounds, but still is wonderful. 32:42 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you. I've only got 25 pounds left to go. 32:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good for you. I still have some to go too, and it's funny People are like what? But I need to continually have that challenge. I feel like I'm like you in that way. 32:53 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'll give everybody something that really helped me, and it's going to seem like a silly thing, but if your health is important to you and you have people that depend on you and need you to be around, then you should make it a primary thing. Number one. Everything is content. You can film and take pictures of your progress. My progress stuff gets more traction than my professional career stuff does Mine did too my picture of me shrinking. Those are just pictures not even a video. 33:20 Those pictures had over 3,000 likes and I don't even have that many followers on Instagram. People want to see you succeed and it also inspires them and makes them want to do better for themselves, which is great. So you can literally make that as part of your journey, and I remember incorporating it into my routine. I'm like you know what, instead of it feeling like it's a job and that I have to go lose weight and I have to go hike and I have to go to, I'll make content while I'm out there. I'm make videos of me doing the thing, or make I did different celebrities going to the gym, you know, or working out or exercising, and it became where it was fun and eventually I'm multitasking. At that point, I'm making content and I'm working out. 33:57 At the same exact time, I'm also finding cool locations while I'm out doing whatever that like you know what. This would be a cool place to make a thing. There's so many different cool factors involved in just doing things better for yourself. The gym that I got for the backyard I was like you know what this would make great if I want to do gym videos because they have a very strict policy about making content inside of a gym, so having a gym in my backyard makes it a lot easier for me. 34:21 But it also I got it from another voice actor. Dave Fennoy got rid of his old gym because his studio flooded and he did not feel like putting it back in there. 34:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I got a great deal on it. Oh, that's awesome. I didn't realize that was Dave Fennoy. It helped me network more with yeah it helped me network with Dave Fennoy who's? 34:37 - Jon Bailey (Host) also a local to Memphis, which you know, I've only known two or three other voice actors that came from where I came from. So there's so many positive things about. Everything is interconnected, everything's all part of one big giant thing and it does sometimes feel a little bit like a video game because you're just like this doesn't feel real, but it's just all the parts working together and just looking for opportunities. I'll put it to you this way there's a movie I hate to bring up Jim Carrey again, but the movie yes man. I don't live quite that strictly to that kind of policy, but I do feel like you should say yes to every opportunity that comes your way. Unless you have a very solid like there, unless you have a very solid like, there's just no way I can. If it feels like there's resistance, then don't do it, but unless there's just something that instantly red flags, I'm just trying to be like yeah, I'll, absolutely. I'll do my best. I'll give it my best freaking shot, whether it's my health, whether it's my content, whether it's a voiceover job. 35:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I've been shocked at how many times that has worked out for me. 35:31 - Jon Bailey (Host) Just give it a chance. So many people are not confident in themselves. They don't have security in themselves. I don't think people understand the term fake it till you make it. It's talking about acting. It's literally talking about pretending to be okay and pretending to be fine and acting like you're good even if you're not good, even if you are nervous. This will change your entire life and I'm only going to give this one, and this is just an example of what you get when you coach with me. By the way, if you can pretend to be another person when you go into an audition, it completely changes things, because when you're already acting like you already got the job, you're going to do a better job performing the job. So, whether it comes to in-person auditions or whatever, or social situations or networking situations, you can literally just get comfortable acting like the person who is confident and who is a success until you are that's what faking it do to make it move. 36:22 People on the spectrum and voice actors and actors and performers. We're all very good at masking, and does that make us an exceptional liars? Probably All of us are not like that in our personal lives. 36:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But when? 36:34 - Jon Bailey (Host) you're very good at pretending to be someone else. You can make that into a viable career and it works for your content. It works for your overall brand. It works for your auditions. It also works for your booking. When you actually get the job, People will like you better, when you act like you belong there. In other words, when you go into a session, don't sit there and go. I'm sorry, let me do it again. I'm sorry. 36:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I messed up. 36:55 - Jon Bailey (Host) Hang on. I messed up. Hang on. I'm sorry you shut your mouth. Just say let me try that one more time. 36:59 I got a better one in me Change your mindset, change the way you speak, change the way you act. You're faking it till you make it, because eventually you'll start booking those jobs and it's just. I hate to keep using nerd references, but I am one it he could do it because he saw himself do it, and this is exactly. There was a life changing moment for me when I went into record Bumblebee for the third time and it's one of my favorite movies that I've ever worked on. It's my favorite franchise, my two favorite characters that I got to voice. I had no idea who I was working with in that studio. I didn't have a clue. Nobody told me that anybody from the movie was going to be there. The only people that I saw that were famous were some of the other voice actors that were working. So on the third session I was like I wonder who the director of this film is. And I looked it up and it was the guy I'd been working with for three sessions. 37:48 I didn't even know he was the director of the movie. I thought he was just the engineer at Paramount and it was like dude. I was nailing it, not even knowing I should be nervous. So why even be nervous? The next chance I got to work with another director, it was Michael freaking Bay. I wasn't even concerned anymore. Everybody was warning me. He's hard to work with. He's difficulty blah, blah, blah. I'm like dude. I worked with Travis Knight, didn't even know I was working with Travis Knight. I'm fine Because I can just act like I belong there and and people will believe it because I'm being very confident. Even though it's fake confidence, it's still confidence and eventually you'll start to believe your own confidence. 38:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's kind of manifesting. 38:24 - Intro (Host) Manifesting that it's faking it till you, make it I didn't understand. 38:27 - Jon Bailey (Host) I heard people say that for years and years and years until I realizing it's just faking confidence until you're actually doing that job, because you really kind of need to prove to everybody else and yourself that, yeah, you can do this, and once you can do it you don't need to worry about it anymore. 38:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what I love is knowing you for so long Like I've seen this happen. I've actually watched you become this incredible success, confident, and it's. I love it. I'm just so, so happy for you. 38:54 - Jon Bailey (Host) I appreciate that it really is just about kind of like learning all the cheat codes. It takes me a little longer than most. I had friends tell me like it takes 10 years to get into cartoons. I booked an anime in eight and thought I was doing good, but then it was just crickets for another four years. So you just never really know. But then when I started realizing it really is all about faking that confidence and just believing in yourself, even if you don't believe in yourself. If you can fake it, other people will believe it. 39:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm signing up to coach with you, but actually this is a great segue into, first of all, how can people follow you If they don't know they should know because you're all over the place and then how can people work with you. 39:29 - Jon Bailey (Host) I recently. I won't say it's finished yet because I'm trying to add a couple more pages to it, but I recently overhauled my website thanks to my awesome mentor who also does website design. So if you need a voiceover website, I know somebody and the contact page. There's a section on coaching. My rates are all there. I've expanded from when I first started. You probably remember this. There was a long time I did not want to coach because I didn't feel like I had enough experience for it, because I was like I've only been at this five years. Even though I'm doing great, I don't feel like I've got anything to say to anybody. Brand new, because I'm brand new Now. I don't feel I've got a decade and a half plus two years of research and development. 40:01 I've worked for the biggest studios out there. I have gone through every version of how to do this job wrong, just like Thomas Edison inventing the light bulb wrong 99 times. I figured out the right way to do it by doing it wrong so many different ways. So I haven't named it yet, but it's kind of like the gamer's guide to voiceover. 40:17 - Intro (Host) It's a little cheat code magazine. 40:18 - Jon Bailey (Host) Love it. So, yeah, I'm really easy to find Epic Voice Guy on every major platform and you can contact me via my website page or any DMs across any of the social media. I'll probably still sling you over to my website because it goes straight to my email address, but my coaching rates are ridiculously affordable compared to most people and you won't have to keep coming back for more coaching sessions unless you want to, because I didn't like that when I got started. I think we had this conversation before. I was very against the overall coaching community because I felt like so much of it was predatory. They were giving some of the same information over and over that you can find on the Internet for free. And now they have a website. D Bradley Baker God bless his soul created Iwanttobeavoiceactorcom, and now I don't even have to like look, if you don't want to pay me, spend a few weeks on this free website. No skin off my teeth, you don't have to pay me a dime. 41:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If they're not willing to look at that website for a couple of weeks because there's a lot of information there, then they don't really want to do this job and that's my number one go-to thing. 41:12 - Jon Bailey (Host) But yeah, I coach and I also do other stuff too. I also offer, if they want, fan stuff, a little bit of everything Awesome. 41:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, you do. I remember that you were doing that back 16 years ago too. 41:23 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah, I try to look at the industry and see where the gaps were and see where is something missing. It's like, oh, I started realizing these brands that reached out to me like, oh, we realize, you make a lot of Transformers content. I was like, well, you know, as a voice actor and having a professional page, I should freaking have a shop page. 41:39 And then call those companies and say hey, would you like to advertise for free on my website? Duh Three or four, I'm like, yeah, we'll give you some free ads and we'll even throw you a commission if they buy some stuff through the way I mean. 41:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) there's so much opportunity. 41:51 - Jon Bailey (Host) We just don't. Nobody really takes the time to think they're just looking at insert job here in the voiceover business and they don't think about all this other stuff. 41:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's the business mind too. 42:01 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah, the simplest way I can put it, because I know your time is valuable too. The simplest way I can put it is if you're going to fish because you're starving to death and it's your only option, you have plenty of opportunities to fish, but you have a boat and you have a place to fish Do you put one hook in the water or do you put them all in if you have the opportunity, to put them all in there If you have a chance to catch more fish? Look for every single chance, every single opportunity, whether it's a YouTube and a TikTok and a Twitch and a whatever. If you're a gamer, game, if you're a reactor, react but do something. Build it around your skill set, make content on every platform out there. Look for every opportunity networking opportunities, voiceover meetups like what Anne and I used to go to the coaching sessions from people that are reliable free website resources. 42:47 There's a ton out there If you just put in the freaking effort. That's where you guys make me angry. Put in the freaking effort. 42:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This podcast is a resource. 42:55 - Jon Bailey (Host) Exactly, I've been doing this podcast for eight years, eight years weekly. So yeah, I just celebrated my eight year and you guys are not paying for it. This is free resources that are extremely helpful, Jon. 43:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bailey, john Bailey. Oh my gosh, it has been so wonderful. We should have like five more, no, 15 more episodes. 43:11 - Jon Bailey (Host) I mean I would if I didn't have a game to record I know right. 43:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I could go on and on and on and I have a session I got to get to myself. I take that back. Five sessions. 43:19 - Jon Bailey (Host) I forgot one. I just booked another one today. Five sessions and two out of five are at home. That's not normal though. 43:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I did want to be fair and honest. That means you got to drive three out of the five too, so that's time involved as well. Knowing this area. 43:32 - Jon Bailey (Host) Oh, that's aed. There you go, there you go, oh my gosh. 43:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) John, it's been amazing. Thank you so, so much for this. Bosses out there, follow John and coach with John. I'm telling you, you were like a fountain. You're a fountain of wisdom and information and again, thank you I keep telling people they should go to me. 43:54 - Jon Bailey (Host) I've got living proof. If you want living proof of how far you can come with a little information for me, if you are properly motivated and you work hard, go to VoxyDitch on any of the social medias. That's my mentee. I'm mentoring her and look how quickly she has people coming to her asking her for voiceover advice. Awesome, only being in this job for a few months. 44:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome. Well, John, thanks again. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses like John and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Everyone have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye. 44:33 - Intro (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.

Join us as we sit down with Steve Pogatch, Senior Manager of Voice Over Operations at Studio Resonate, SiriusXM and Pandora, to uncover the transformative journey of voiceover and audio advertising over the past decade. Prepare to have your perceptions of podcast advertising turned upside down. We dive into the fascinating differences between host reads and announcer reads. Gain valuable tips on delivering standout performances, crafting compelling commercial reels, and handling ambiguous scripts with finesse. Steve underscores the importance of prompt communication and reliable turnaround times while highlighting the industry's efforts to protect voice talent amidst the rise of synthetic voices. Finally, discover the impact of the Sonic Diversity Initiative, a significant step towards inclusivity in voice casting. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, upgrade your voiceover game with VIPeeps and access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, audiobooks, corporate narration, video games, promos, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPs today and take your voiceover career to new heights. Find out more at vopeepscom. 00:39 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level the boss level. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza. 00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and today I'm very excited to have with me in the studio a very special guest, senior Manager of Voice Over Operations of Studio Resonate, which is SiriusXM Media Pandora Stitcher, Steve Pogatch. In addition to producing thousands of high-quality audio ads in the past 10-plus years that he's been at Pandora, steve has been the go-to guy for all things VO casting, direction and quality. He's responsible for recruiting, auditioning and curating new talent for the Pandora VO roster, as well as managing that roster. Steve, I am so super excited to have you with us today. Thanks so much for being with us. 01:42 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I feel like I've reached the upper echelon of the VO world now that I'm on the Boss podcast. 01:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So thank you so much. Well, thank you, thank you. Well, we're super excited to glean all of your years of wisdom and I'm just so excited that we had this opportunity that I saw you in person. I had to see you in person to beg you to come on the show. So let's kick off things by talking a little bit about your journey at Pandora. You've been there for 10 years and I know in the past 10 years in my voiceover career, I've seen a ton of things change. Talk to us a little bit about what you've seen as far as changes in audio advertising, casting and voiceover. 02:24 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Sure. So yeah, about 10 years ago when I started I was just a producer and our voice roster was maybe about 60 talents or so Wow, and yeah, when they started their advertising department they were getting talents off of Craigslist and other places that I really didn't know. So when I got there, that roster was on an Excel spreadsheet really and it was just filled with all kinds of information and it was really hard to manage and navigate. But a lot of the voices were that terrestrial radio, you know announcer-y style voice. 02:56 And one overarching theme is that voices and everything we've been doing for the past 10 plus years has really just escalated from the announcer-y like hey, pandora listeners, you know like radio style, to hey, pandora listener, you know it's like instead of talking to a group of people talking to one person, you're interrupting their music flow, you're tapping them on the shoulder. You know you're in their earbuds and you just hey, let me tell you about this Tide detergent or Cascade dishwashing liquid or something like that, and just the gentle approach. So it's really gravitated from the super announcer-y, terrestrial radio style to super conversational. The directional word I love to use nowadays is casual a lot. Everyone's sick of conversational already. They're like oh yeah, you're talking to a friend, blah blah, blah, you know yeah. 03:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, what's so funny is just my own personal feelings about it is, I get that Like I think they're just sick of the conversational word, but in reality we have conversations with each other every single day, and so there's all different styles of conversational. It could be authoritative conversational, it could be like super casual conversational. I think that when it comes to advertising, though, one of the reasons why it's kind of gotten to that in your ear one-on-one sort of, I think that's what sells and I think that's the evolution of advertising over the years. Would you say that that's true? 04:18 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think so it's. You know, the more personal you can get, or targeted, you know, with an ad, or I mean not to the point where it's creepy, but to the point where it resonates with the listener. You know where it's like, oh yeah, the same thing with VO talent getting into a script and connecting with a script. It's like you want to connect with that listener, like, oh yeah, I do use that dish soap every night. 04:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yeah, I want to. 04:40 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Oh yeah, that sounds interesting to me, you know. 04:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then I guess my question would be is and this is probably something you're very familiar with is that they ask you to have that casual, like engaged, sort of sound, but yet they don't always write it so that it's easy to achieve that? Do you find that, in terms of the copy that you're seeing come across your desk over and over again, like people still want it to be very, you know, like you're talking to your best friend or that casual, but yet sometimes it's written like super announcer-y? 05:08 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, and that is hard. That is really hard when you get the bullet point style our orange juice has 100% fresh pulp and made from only Valencia oranges. It's like there's three other facts attached to that and you're squeezing that into 30 seconds spot. It's like there's three other facts attached to that and you're squeezing that into 30 seconds spot. It's like how do we get these bullet points to be super conversational? 05:30 - Intro (Host) That is hard. 05:31 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) That is very hard for a talent and for a copywriter. So we do have some great copywriters on our team on Studio Resonate that actually really write great scripts and whenever I can get scripts with humor in them or stuff like that, it just really makes the whole experience better. 05:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now in the studio, are you always writing the copy, or do the clients come and provide copy as well, or do you make suggestions? Let's say, when they come with copy and then they ask for a super casual read, or they have 5,000 words when they need it in 30 seconds. 06:02 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, that happens. The struggle is real. 06:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The struggle is real. 06:06 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I'd say I don't know the exact percentage, but from where I sit I don't do the writing, but it feels like maybe half and half half are our copywriters and half might be the clients, and sometimes we'll actually take the clients and go here, let us try and rewrite this in a Pandorified way or something like that. And sometimes again, it's like those bullet points-y stuff that really need to get in there and don't even get me started on like some like pharmacy disclaimers and stuff like that. 06:32 - Intro (Host) You probably know from medical narration and stuff like that. 06:34 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's just like woo. You know, it's like 90 words in a 30 second script. 06:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, but they're changing too. It's interesting if you actually listen to some of them now I don't think they're as fast as they used to be, because I'm almost positive that because it's a legal disclaimer that they have to be, like, understood by the listener, and so sometimes if they're talking too fast then it's not clear, or because I've really noticed that trend and I don't know if it's the same in terms of I've seen it on television at least. 07:04 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah. 07:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know about Pandora, but very interesting. So then my question is is the casual read dying? Are people coming back to announcer style, or are you seeing variations on the type of casual? 07:20 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I hope it's not going back to announcer, because we've really worked hard on this whole gentle approach. Yeah, exactly, and you know personally, when I meet a voice actor who's locked into that whole radio world like I have 27 years of radio experience how do I get on your roster and I just kind of go well, how do I let you down gently? 07:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, exactly Because you're looking for an actor. 07:44 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Some talents and again talents who haven't really evolved with us in the 10 years that I've been there at least, or may not be on our roster anymore because there has been that evolution. But yeah, it's really difficult for some people who have been locked into that radio world to actually shift and change and it's part of their muscle memories. 08:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right Interesting. I know that even when it comes to, like, long format narration, I know that just reading it it doesn't cut it anymore. I mean, you have to be in their ear and that's super hard, given you've got more than a minute's worth of copy and it's not always written in a first person kind of way, so that I know the struggle is real for that as well. So, in terms of advertising, would you say that there are more advertisements from 10 years ago today, or how are you seeing the trend? Because I know in podcasting there's a lot of people who, like they find advertising annoying and so they fast forward quickly, and so I'm just curious to see how advertising is received in terms of listenership and in terms of popularity of people. Yeah, let's advertise on Pandora. 08:49 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's funny because when I first started this job, I would meet people at like a party or something like that, or a dinner, you know a get together, and they were like oh, where do you work? 08:57 - Intro (Host) I'm like, oh, I work at Pandora. 08:58 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) They're like I love Pandora, and then I just sit back and wait for the next sentence. They take a breath and they go, but the ads, yeah, exactly. 09:14 - Intro (Host) You, he knew it. And then I go, hey. 09:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I make those ads and then talk about like an awkward. You know you can hear a glass drop in the background, but it's just like, well, we're trying to you know to make these ads gentle and not as abrasive and in your face like real radio ads. 09:22 And then they turn around and they start to agree with me. I'm like yeah, yeah, you know, okay, but I think the Free Pandora, you knowora, has really kind of survived on the advertising and I haven't really done a count in a while, but I don't think it's that many ads. I don't think it's really changed over time either, like in terms of an ad pod and an hour listening session. 09:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think it is what it is. I mean, you have to support the medium and I know that for myself, like on the VO Boss podcast, I've had sponsors which I wait until the end typically to say anything about the sponsors. But lately I'm like gosh, I've had this podcast for seven and a half years and I've never done any advertising, and so now I'm kind of doing my own ads. Now we'll see how that turns out. But my question to you is is that podcast advertising is now really started to become a thing just because podcasts are now becoming a thing? So what are your thoughts on that? Are you seeing trends? Are you seeing changes in how people tolerate ads and podcasts? 10:16 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I actually am guilty of fast-forwarding through a podcast ad recently, when I was listening to a podcast. 10:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It better not be mine. 10:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Shame on me. 10:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's like a voice actor who fast-forwards through a commercial on television. 10:27 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Right, it was their own. No, no, no. 10:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I don't watch commercials Really. 10:34 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) But since SiriusXM bought Stitcher a few years ago, they were a podcast company. So we had to kind of figure out okay, we're going to do a lot more podcast ads now, so what does this sound like? So I feel like in the past few years we've been kind of sculpting this. There's a couple of different versions of what we work with in our group, on our team, and one is host reads. You know, it's like you have your Conan O'Briens and they're just handed a sheet of bullet points and they're ad living. 11:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, and I think that's effective. 11:02 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, if you ever listen to Conan O'Briens ad reads, they're incredible. 11:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, it's smart list. I'm going to put my vote in for SmartList. Okay, Really, really excellent. It's Sean Hayes, Dustin Bateman and oh my gosh, Will Arnett. 11:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah. 11:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so each one of them take turns. And you're right, they get the bullet points and they add them. They're amazing, they're funny. That's the best yeah, and so I agree. So that's just so so interesting yeah. 11:25 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) So that's the host read, and then we also do this thing called announcer. 11:29 Read now again that word announcer is not used in the same context that I just told you that we've evolved from. It's just quote announcer read, it's another package or whatever. So we've been trying to sculpt what does this announcer read sound like? Well, in my eyes it's like an offshoot of the conversational, because you're listening to a podcast and it's usually two hosts, you know, or whoever the hosts are, they're just shooting the breeze, you know, talking to one another, you know, we've all heard that. And then boom, a podcast ad comes in. So how do we want that ad to be? And it's the same thing as interrupting someone's music flow Again. But this is like. So we just want that super casual approach. 12:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you can still tell the difference, because it's not necessarily ad-libbed right Like a host Right. 12:14 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, you can definitely yeah, but we're trying to write that way as well, and we've been working on this for a couple of years already, and I feel like we're getting there and we have a select group of talent. 12:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think I'm going to hire you guys. I wrote my own and it took a long time because trying to write it as a host and in trying to like write something to sell something, I'm doing it myself, not bouncing it off anybody, and so it's a tough way to write. I mean, it's a whole different way of writing. Very interesting. 12:41 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I actually. You know, I produced a podcast for my wife and her sister my sister-in-law and my wife is a therapist and a coach and she has products and stuff like that and she finally said oh, I should advertise myself on there. Sure, I said, you know, go to chat GPT and have them write some scripts for you and adjust it. 13:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) She didn't ask you to write them. 13:05 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No. 13:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, Steve, I think maybe. 13:07 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I already do too much. Producing this podcast is a lot more work than I expected, but I said feed in your website or something like that, so they know who you are. 13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Again, I'm not super experienced with it yet I did have some help with ChatGPT writing my own ad, yeah and she came up with three, and so I created three commercials for her. 13:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Now I put them in a rotation for her midway through her podcast, so it's cool. And then they also turn it on ads wherever they're uploading their podcast to as well, so it'll be her ad, and then whatever ads they decide to put in there as well. 13:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, let's talk a little bit more about when you're recruiting or trying to find new talent for your roster. What is the process and what are you looking for? What sort of qualities in a voice actor are you looking for that are suitable for your roster? I know before it used to be a thing in the industry where it would be like, oh, they're opening up the roster, so everybody would be like, oh my God, did you get an invite, or it was that kind of thing. Or did you submit? Did you submit and did you get asked to be on the roster? And it was a big thing when you weren't thing, when you weren't. I remember that it was years ago. I submitted. I just remember, like going in the underground VO circles, it was the big thing. 14:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, and I will say it's very hard. We have 260 talents on our roster, or 250 talents on our roster right now, and I'd say it's pretty jammed up, so it's like it's really hard to like find what are we looking for now. You know, I feel like every time someone applies or sends me something, the number one reason I have to tell people is you know, you kind of sound like one or two other people on our roster and I feel bad like you are a superstar. 14:41 But yeah you know I can't give the people on our roster a disservice and I can't give you a disservice by oversaturating those kind of voices. So it's been tough to manage and we don't open the roster at any particular time. I know at the end of the year I do a little house cleaning. So people who aren't really, who are maybe booking one or two jobs a year, it's like, let me tell you, that's the hardest thing about saying goodbye to someone because they're not booking enough, like sorry, you've only booked like two gigs in the past two years. It's like you know that's not sustainable for you as us being a client of yours. It's like you're firing me. I'm like no, I'm not. No, I don't want to use that word, no, but again, it's not sustainable for you to just book one spot a year from us. You know. 15:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I book one spot a year from us, you know. So, right, I agree, and I also think that it's hard for talent because they take it very personally when in fact sometimes it's not. I mean, sometimes, yes, it may be performance related, correct, but myself, having been in casting and having done Vio Basta as an audition demolition, but in casting and for projects like that, I just know that sometimes it has nothing to do with the performance, it has everything to do with oh okay, I have this product and this voice is not the demographic that I'm looking for, and so a lot of it is based on the client and what kind of voice they're looking for and who they're trying to sell to. Is that similar to what you feel, as well as to why some people get picked on the roster, like is there a trending sound right now, like millennial, like that kind of thing? 16:13 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No, I mean there was the millennial thing, I think, but we've gotten everything we need right now and I just like what I really watch out for is oversaturating certain age ranges, you know, and just like you know, okay, we already have some, you know, senior age, males only a couple and then it's like do I bring one more on? No, because again it's that oversaturation thing. That's the thing I have to watch out for the most these days. 16:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what would be your tips or secrets to help voice actors deliver their best performances? Not necessarily to get on the roster, but because I mean you've been casting for years and casting talent and performances. So what would be your best tips for helping VO talent deliver a great performance? 16:59 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Sure, I mean, I think the number one thing in the way we deal with talent is we're not doing a lot of live sessions, we're booking via email. So in those cases you're going to have to send us three takes, and your confidence and your self-direction is really what's at play here. So I would say that's like the number one kind of thing that we really hope you have is that confidence and self-direction, because you're going to send us three choices and you can't be unsure and you can't send us three of the exact same carbon copy. We've had some talents in the past? 17:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, how often does that happen? 17:33 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's happened where I actually have taken all three of their takes and put them on top of each other in Pro. 17:38 - Intro (Host) Tools or whatever. 17:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) And it's just one thing, echo and there's no difference between any of them. It's almost like it's eerie. Yeah, so that's a no do. But other stuff, definitely a good commercial reel. I think from like listening to a ton of commercial reels, I'm starting to learn like what makes a good one these days. You know, and also sitting on the speed dating with your demo panel the past few years at Solvus, I've had people give me demos that are, like you know, sound effects heavy, and then there's another voice on there and I say you have 60 seconds, add up the sound effects, add up the other voices on here. What's that? Four, five, six seconds? Okay, that's 10% of your demo. 18:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's not you. That's real estate. 18:21 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, so you can have sound effects, but not have it just be by themselves or start your demo with a big explosion or something like that, right, unless you're going for terrestrial radio or whatever I don't know. But yeah, other stuff is like. One thing I really appreciate from a talent is I call it VO intuition. If you have a script that, for example, it says finance or something like that, and you're not sure the way the client wants it, you know it's finance or finance and I want to write a book that has those words in VO data data. You know, I wonder if anyone's done that yet. A book that all the words that could be said two different ways. 18:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh right. 18:57 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) There's my quarter million dollar idea. I guess I don't know. But if you have a script like that and it's like 9 o'clock pm and the producer's not available, send it both ways and say hey. 19:07 I gave it to you. So that's what I call VO intuition. I really appreciate that when it's like oh, I didn't know if you wanted data or data, so I'm giving it to you both ways or I'm picking up this sentence. Stuff like that is really great, but it's not a requirement. Good communication If I send good communication, you know, if I send you a request, I want to hear back from you within, you know, three or four hours, say, yes, I got it, I got you, I'm going to hit it by the deadline, no problem, our turnarounds are like 24 to 48 hours, so we need that as well. So, yeah, stuff like that and other stuff. I mean definitely the commercial demo is number one. These are nice to have character work singing, but, again, not required got Got it. 19:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what qualities in addition to like, let's say, the demo? Right, let's say you have a demo and the demo is amazing. And then, all of a sudden, do you find talent sometimes that don't equate to the demo. Meaning what you hear on the demo is not necessarily what you get back when you give them. Okay, here's a job the customer picked out for you. Can you give me three versions of it? And then, all of a sudden, it sounds nothing like their demo. And then what happens at that point? 20:09 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Do you direct them or yeah, I mean, there is always a chance for us to get on the phone or do a live session. But in terms of our recruiting and the way it works to get on our roster is we listen to the demos and if we really like it, then we'll reach out with a whole packet of auditions. Oh god, this is like 12 different scripts you know from like automotive, university, healthcare, retail, and then we've just created a podcast script and cpg, which is consumer packaged goods, and a conversational script and ad lib script. So it's like 12 of those scripts. So that gives us. So you'll find out. Yeah, did you record in a fancy studio and now you're at your kitchen table and what you did on your demo? Is that also translating as well to our scripts? 20:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let's talk a little bit about I always call it like the technological disruptor in the room synthetic voices. Are you finding that you have clients that are looking for that these days and, if so, do you have a source or how do you feel about it? What's your take on synthetic voices and their place in the industry today? 21:13 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think there are some spots where it would be good for a talent, you know, like if you had your clone and you were in control of it. I think that is number one. Again, I want to shout out to Nava and everything they're doing for. Ai Because I believe in all the stuff that their manifesto, everything about how they stand for the vo industry and ai. 21:34 I'm just so into what they're doing so I gotta shout out for them. But there are places, you know, suppose you were given something you know where you needed to read like 2500 addresses or something like that, you know, and you're just like, oh god, I can't do, I can't do this, I'm going to blow out my voice or it's going to take six hours. And then you're like, all right, I'll just do the body of the spot and then turn my clone on to do that. It's hard to figure out. What are the rates? What is a good rate for that as well? You know, and that's kind of stuff I think about, you know, when I'm what is a good rate? I always want to stand for our talents and try and get the best rates possible for them. So you know, that's something I need to think about if we ever were to go into an AI world Right now. I mean, some clients are asking for it and stuff like that. 22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what type of applications Are they asking for it in terms of it's because they can't afford or they have, let's say, volume material that they think it's an ongoing thing where just a date will change or a price will change or a couple of things will change. 22:30 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I don't think it's gotten that expressive yet or that detailed yet. I think they're just like wanting to touch the new toys that are out there Play around yeah. 22:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I actually almost I agree with you on that, because I feel like it's kind of novelty. People just want to see how good it is and I think for certain things, as you mentioned and a big shout out to Nava and one of the reasons why on the VO Boss podcast and Bosses if you haven't listened to it I did an extensive set of interviews with a number of AI companies to talk to them about ethics and the industry and synthetic voices in general, and I got educated. I did a lot of work and I got educated and I think that's wonderful and Nava is a really wonderful source for being educated as well, and so I think if we own the creative license to our voices and we can control it, I think that's moving in a positive direction and we just need to get it there first so that we can do that Absolutely. 23:27 But I don't think that the technology is there yet for emotion or rhythm or that kind of thing, although there's lots of great examples out there, and the scary thing about some of the great examples is somebody will say, oh gosh, listen to this. And everybody's like, oh my God, it's really good. And then everybody panics and gets scared. And in reality there's a lot of technical things on the backend and this is just from my own education, from interviewing so many people that worked in the AI industry that there's many, many different ways that people come out with these samples and you don't know how much engineering is done on the back end to make them sound that good. 24:01 And there's different technologies too. I mean there's text-to-speech, and then there's speech-to-speech, which is an entirely different technologies too. I mean there's text-to-speech, and then there's speech-to-speech, which is an entirely different thing, which is what they use for high-end Hollywood movie dubs, and that's where it sounds scary good. And so a lot of times you don't know. You don't know how it was produced or how it was manufactured. But kudos to NAVA again. And the sooner we can get legislation in place so that we can be protected, the better. You know, I've always said that we should, as an industry, just evolve. I mean, we're not going to make it go away, that's for darn sure. So we need to evolve and somehow work with it as it evolves as well. I don't think anymore that AI's high power is in synthetic voices anymore. I really feel that it's in data manipulation and data curation, and that's where its true strength is in terms of helping the world, you know, and hopefully in a good way. 24:55 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think there's also in my mind. There's a difference between, like the synthetic voices which are just like sprinkling stuff into a blender, and creating a new voice, versus a real person who owns their clone and they're in charge of their clone. That, to me, feels like the more comfortable situation. 25:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And to me I feel like that's like money-wise, it's an equal split, right? I feel like I should get 50% and the company that has my voice and generates my voice and hosts my voice right with their engine should get 50%. That's where I start in terms of why not, right? 25:28 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) yeah, if you need a pickup and you're like I'm sleeping, I'm on vacation, I'm in charge, I'm going to push the button, I'll get you that pickup, but I'm just going to set it for my phone right here, you know, or, yeah, you're in charge of that locker or whatever it is. 25:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, well, what other predictions? So I guess I'll say, if you took a look into the crystal ball outside of synthetic voices, what sort of predictions do you have for the future, at least for yourself and audio production and advertising? 25:54 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Well, this is what I'm enjoying a lot more in my day-to-day is more immersive sound design in audio advertising. 26:05 We are starting to do some cool stuff in the 3D space, where and I'm now the go-to guy Well, I'd like to think I'm now the go-to guy on my team for horror movie trailers or all things horror, because I just did something the other day that was really cool for this horror movie coming up and I just enjoyed taking an alien and going whoo whoo, whoo, whoo whoo, but in the headphones, where it comes from the top of the head to the bottom, or you can go around in that 3D space in headphones, which is really cool. 26:41 So anytime I could do that where you're just getting more theater of the mind stuff to actually immerse a listener and just have the VO be a support to that. I think if we can get more into those kind of things almost cinematic ads in your headphones I think that might be the way to really get people to enjoy ads too and really just be like whoa, did you hear that? You know, imagine people talking about did you hear that audio ad? You know? Like when they're in the same way people talk about super bowl ads, you know it's like, yeah, I'd love to get there. 27:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, audio ads like that. One other thing before I have to leave you, we could probably do five podcasts with all this really great conversation. Tell us a little bit about you started something called the sonic great conversation. Tell us a little bit about you started something called the Sonic Diversity Initiative. Talk to us a little bit about that. Sure. 27:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) This is like something we started during the pandemic. It's called Stand for Sonic Diversity and is a website we created called standforsonicdiversitycom, and basically we just started to take a look at our casting practices and other advertising agencies and we kind of put out almost like a pledge to other advertising agencies hey, will you guys pledge along with us to make your casting and your rosters more diverse and more inclusive? And as a result, I've worked really hard and I'm proud to say that our roster is now more than 50% voices of color. So I'm really proud of that work and we're trying to also make sure that our casting practices are that way. 28:10 Because, back then it was like you know, you're just like, unless a client specified, you would maybe assume like, oh, if they don't specify, then they want a white talent as their go-to and it's like no. So we decided we can move the needle from within by just making these changes internally and smartly, and it's the right thing to do. And so we also put this pledge up to other agencies and other advertising conglomerates and stuff like that, and hopefully they all join in as well. 28:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wonderful, wonderful. 28:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Well, thank you for that, yeah if you go to that site, there's a really cool audio spot that you can play there, and I am I'm proud to produce that spot as well. 28:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what's that site again? Stanforsonicdiversitycom okay, awesome, so all right. My last question, which is here's a fun question for you if you were stranded on a deserted island and you could only bring three albums or podcasts with you, what would they be? I mean, I figure you must have some music preferences, for sure yeah, oh man only three, wow all right. 29:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) One of them is Prince. 29:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, Of course I say 1999. 29:21 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No, it's a double album. 29:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, just saying Prince is enough for me. Yeah, yeah, I would absolutely. 29:27 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I like that it's the one with Housequake and Starfish and Coffee. I don't know why the name has escaped me. It's one of my favorite albums too he's brilliant. He's brilliant. Yes, and then I'm also a metalhead and I like kind of like heavy hardcore music and there's a band I. 29:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why did I know that? Why did I know that somehow? 29:44 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I play in two bands actually, so that's my weekend. Therapy is going and playing super loud music. 29:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, and what do you play if I can? 29:51 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) ask I play bass. 29:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, okay, awesome, my brother plays. Brother plays bass. Yeah, wow, okay, can we hear you anywhere? Is that a thing? Can we hear you somewhere? 29:59 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Uh-huh, I'm in a band, it's an all-dad band, and this is the best name for an all-dad band. It's called that Ship has Sailed. I love it, I love it. We're on all the streaming places and I'm in're called Converge and their album is called Jane Doe. Okay, and then one more. 30:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh God, it could be a podcast too, if you have a favorite podcast. 30:29 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah. 30:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because you've got to keep yourself busy. 30:32 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Right. 30:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So maybe the podcast would be more refreshing because it would come out on a regular basis. 30:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) There was one podcast I listened to by a co-worker introduced it to me and it's not something I can listen to over again because it was pretty intense, but it was really cool. It was called Sweet Bobby, I think. Okay, it was like a kind of a true crime kind of podcast. 30:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that I have. 30:53 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I wouldn't take that with me, though. I'm sorry you put me on the spot. 30:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's okay, that's all right. I think you did really well. 31:00 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you. 31:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you I'm really excited by the way that, before I let you go, that I'm going to have you as a guest director for my VO Peeps group, which is going to be really amazing coming up in July. So thank you, Very excited to have that happen. If a voice talent, Voice talent want to reach out and find you, see all the good things that you do, listen to your band and also the other website that we mentioned, when can they find you? 31:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) You can probably hit me on LinkedIn or my email address is spogach at pandoracom. It might change to SiriusXM shortly. But one thing I like to tell talents and I guess I'm overly nice this way is like I'm always happy to lend talents their ears, like, for example, if someone sends a mission out or they want you, they want to know oh, why didn't I get that audition? You know, I'm happy to give feedback on there. It's like almost like you're all sending resumes out in the world. You don't hear anything back. You know it's, and it's like you're sending auditions out and no one ever gets feedback. So I'm always happy to lend an ear and give feedback. Or someone's like oh, can you listen to my demo? If I have time, I'm glad to take a minute and listen to someone's demo, give them feedback and stuff like that. 32:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's wonderful, I guess I'm too nice, I don't know. Now I'm going to send everybody your way out. 32:14 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I know. 32:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) By the way, I'm changing my email address. There you go, yeah, right, well, steve, it has been so wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much for taking the time. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Yes, you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Steve, thank you again, it's been wonderful. 32:35 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you, can't wait to see you. It was great talking to you. 32:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah for VO. Peeps and bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. 32:44 - Intro (Host) Bye-bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IP.

Explore the intricacies of financial success in your voiceover business with our new series "Boss Money Talks," featuring special guest Danielle Famble. Discover how assembling a team of financial experts, like accountants and CPAs, can help you track expenses, handle taxes, and ensure consistent profitability. The BOSSES highlight the benefits of separating personal and business finances and the advantages of having ongoing relationships with professionals. They discuss the benefits of quarterly meetings to assess profit and tax liabilities and the complexities of running a business, including payroll and compliance. This episode is packed with actionable advice to help you build a reliable financial team and set a solid financial structure for your voiceover business. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anganguzacom. 00:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza. 00:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to start a new series called Boss Money Talks with the one and only Danielle Famble. I am so excited, Danielle, to have you on the show today to talk about something so important to our businesses, and that's money. Welcome, hey. 01:10 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Anne, thank you so much for having me on. This is really exciting. 01:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I have to say it is my honor to have you. When I interviewed you and bosses if you didn't catch our last episode together I was just blown away by your savviness financially and, of course, voice actor and all that other good stuff. But it's very rare to find someone who really is all about the financial aspects of things and you're just right on top of everything. And I just was so excited to ask you to create a series with me on this because I think it's really important for the success of any boss out there for their business. 01:47 So, kicking off the first episode, I thought maybe we should talk about forming your team, because I recently spoke to my accountant and she handles things for me and I absolutely love it and I said it so many times across many, many episodes how important my accountant is to me. I thought, wow, we really need to like go over this again for any bosses that are out there really starting their own business how important it is to get your finances in order. Do you have a team of people that work with you? I mean, I know you have background in finance, but do you have a team of people for your business? 02:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I do. I think it's really important to talk about having a team, because as a solo entrepreneur, you want to do everything yourself, and some things you could do yourself, but it's just better to have an expert in that field. Oh, I so agree, and so, for me, I think I am the expert in the business in voiceover, in what I do, and so I want to bring in experts who are good at what they do so they can help educate me on how I can run my business better, because the main point of having a business is to create a profit, which is more money coming in than goes out, and if someone can help you exactly that's like kind of the basic, that's what we're doing here and if you can have someone who can help you exactly. 03:03 That's like kind of the basic. That's what we're doing here, yeah, and if you can have someone who can help you understand the profits and the business and what to do with the money and how to handle your taxes, all of that stuff, like having that team will help you grow and scale your business. 03:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I think accounting isn't something that I love to do. I mean, that's like one of my biggest reasons for when I got my accountant was that. Not that I wasn't financially savvy, but it certainly wasn't my main focus. I didn't go to school for it, and so when I started my own business, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to keep track of all of these things, like I'm spending money on equipment, I'm spending money on coaching, I'm spending money on demos, and God, I have to report this at the end of the year, right, and it just. 03:46 I remember I didn't really have great record keeping in the first year. Now, granted, I was doing it part time, but still I had to account right for the money that I expensed and the money that came in, even though it wasn't a whole lot. That first year, I wanted to make sure I was taking advantage of the fact that I gave up the corporate job. And now, all of a sudden, I've got to account for things, because at the end of the year, uncle Sam is going to want to know what I've been doing and when I waited too long to be very organized in my expenses and accounting, I, at the end of the year when I got ready for taxes. It was hell. It was just pure hell. 04:23 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) No one wants that. Like two or three months or two or three weeks I've been there of like just the worst possible aches in your stomach because you're like, oh no, in, like March or April, it's just horrible. 04:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like oh God, tax season, it's here. I got to do this. I got to do this and I was using oh gosh, back in the day, I was using QuickBooks, but on desktop, and so it was like I want to talk about like 15 years ago, and it just was like one of those things where, like God, I got to enter another transaction. 04:55 It was just one of those things that just became very tedious and I was like I really don't like this. And ultimately I was very fortunate to have a recommendation for an accountant that could work with me. And that first year because again it was so long ago QuickBooks wasn't online or anything and, as a matter of fact, there was that whole stigma of you don't want to do anything financial online because it's scary and your security and that kind of thing. But how lucky are bosses in this day and age you know what I mean to kind of have that advantage that now things are so much more secure. Now you might say, well, is it really secure? But I have to say it's a whole lot more secure than it used to be, or at least I was always comfortable. 05:37 I remember in the 90s paying my bills online and I was one of the few people to do that. I mean, in the beginning I was just like, look at some point, you just have to trust the technology at some point and it's so much easier to pay things online. When I got my accountant for my business here, it was like magic. It was like we would meet once a week and she got to know my business and she got to know, like, what sorts of things were expenses, what sorts of things were income, and especially important was separating those expenses so that it wasn't all I had one account. I mean, I think when we talked before in our past episode we talked about how important it was to have a business account. Talk to us a little bit again about business accounts and what's important about that. 06:20 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) The most important, especially when it comes to taxes, but really just for simplicity, is to be able to separate your personal life from your business life. Your personal life, hopefully, is affected by your business life, as in your business, pays you to do the job that you do for your business. But keeping them separate is going to be very helpful, especially when it comes to taxes, and it will be easier for your financial team, as you build it, to be able to say okay, this is tax, this is business and this is personal. Here's how we keep them separate. There may be tax implications. You may be able to write certain things off if it's business, whereas if it's personal you can't. So it's helping you, but it's also helping your team keeping everything separate. 07:07 It's like legally, you kind of have to. I mean, imagine if, like any major corporation, the CEO of that corporation is just like swiping their own personal credit or debit card, Like you've got to treat your business, no matter the size or the scale of it, the way that other businesses are treated because they are taxed similarly. So this isn't necessarily just about business practices, but for me, with money, all of it I think about is like, come April 15th or come like the quarterly tax period. How can I set myself up for success now so I'm not feeling crunched and stressed for a couple of weeks during tax time when my CPA is probably not as available to me because they've got other people to work with? So keeping it separate will help you with bookkeeping. It will help you with, like the way that you think about your business and personal, how you can pay certain bills on time. Just keep it two separate accounts one for your personal and one in your business name. 08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, now question for you. Now my I guess I would call her my bookkeeper. She also does my taxes, so I don't know if yours is one in the same, but what I found to be super helpful and convenient is that I literally just have her on retainer. She does everything for me, and what is wonderful is that now we use QuickBooks online and so literally we can have a meeting and the two of us can be on the phone talking on a weekly basis or whenever I need to meet with her regarding okay, what is this? Is this a new category or is this an expense? And she pretty much knows my business because she's been doing this for me for about 10 years, so she pretty much knows what's going on and it makes it so easy. I cannot tell you that this year at tax time and the last few years really have been like oh yeah, hey, oh, it's April. What do you need from me for the taxes? Do you need anything specific? Because she also does our personal taxes as well as my business taxes. 09:07 And so in reality, like we barely have to do anything except send her the paperwork that we get and boom, she's done, I mean, and it's so stress free, I don't ever have to worry, she's got a good handle as to where I am. The other thing is that she's got a good handle as to where I am at any given point during the year, like how am I doing profit wise, how am I doing compared to last year? And she can generate reports and so she can really keep me up to date on what's happening in my business. And then I can say, all right, maybe I need to cut back here or I need to invest more here, and so it's really so helpful. And for me then she is the one person I guess you would say on my team that handles pretty much everything. But let's talk about creating a team. Who do you feel is necessary to have on a team to set yourself up for financial success in your business? 09:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I think this is a situation where you can expect to grow as you go. So I would say the first person to add into your financial team, your money team, is a CPA or some sort of accountant who is going to be helping you specifically when it comes to your taxes. But you made a really good point because you have an ongoing relationship with your accountant and for me in the past I would only go to my tax person when it was time to do my taxes once a year. 10:27 But if you can plan to have an ongoing relationship and I also have my accountant team on retainer so they know where I am throughout the course of the year we have quarterly meetings where they give me quarterly reports on where's the profit, what is my potential tax liability as of that time of the year, as of that quarter. So, looking past just April 15th and saying, okay, this is a relationship that I'm going to have with a person ongoing For me. I didn't realize that in the beginning and that's something that I've more recently figured out. So I would say to bosses out there make sure that the relationship that you have with your accountant is not a once a year relationship. 11:11 This needs to be an ongoing relationship throughout the course of the year, because then they can help you with tax planning and if you're forecasting for what's happening in the future, then you won't feel so shocked. I've been there. You won't feel so shocked when it's time to write that check or maybe you get a refund. 11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean hallelujah if you do Absolutely, and you know what else too is that a lot of times I'm shocked by the state of California and taxes. But you know, that's just a whole other issue that has nothing to do with my lack of preparation for it. But anyways, the other thing too depending on the type of business, if you have a DBA or you know an LLC or an S-corp which I do I also have to pay myself, and so I have to do that on a regular basis, and so she takes care of that as well. 11:57 For me, she took care of the registering of it, and anytime I get a letter from the IRS or from and which happens a lot with this S-Corp because, they're either keeping me up to date on the newest things that are happening or maybe, for whatever reason from two years ago, they always seem to find, like you owe us $1.30. And I'm like, really, like you couldn't tell me that like $1.30. And the funny thing is is that my accountant has always been so. On top of it, she's like, no, actually, no, we paid that and so she will take care of all of that for me. I'll just have to like scan the paperwork that gets sent to me directly because my business is here at this address, and then I'll say, ok, what do I need to do? And she literally will say, ok, here we need to go to the IRS and we need to file this or do that, and it's more than just what you owe. 12:42 I'm talking about all the paperwork that needs to be filed for running an S-Corp for me in the state of California and as well, as she pays me so that, again, I'm not surprised at the end of the year and as a matter of fact, I've not been surprised really. I've been surprised when I actually got more refund than I thought, which is great, but I've never been like, oh God, I have to pay money, which always makes my stomach twist and knots, because we've planned so well. And a lot of times she's up on the laws, right, because that's what she does, right. This is why I'm like why try to do it yourself? She's up on all the laws and so she'll say okay, so this year or now they've introduced something new where you can expense so much of your mileage or so much of your medical expenses, and so she's up on all those things, and that way we can take full advantage, because who wants to pay more taxes if you don't have to? That's all I have to say. 13:35 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Exactly, and it's not even just about taxes as well. You go back to what you're talking about being an S-corp. I didn't know when it was the right time for me to be an S-corp. And so getting that information, if you can find in your accountant, your CPA, whomever you're working with, find someone who has the heart of a teacher. Dave Ramsey says that. And find somebody who can help educate you, because I wasn't trying to work with someone who just I handed things over. 14:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, especially your financial data. I mean that is personal and sensitive right and it's got to be a. I think you have to have a special relationship with your accountant. 14:13 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) To be honest, yeah, and personally I'm curious because I love money and numbers and talking about this and also I love my business. I love what I do and profit is a huge part of my business, or at least even the income, the money that's coming in, is a huge part of my business. So I want to understand it. Sure, I want someone who can teach me how to think about things, what I need to know going forward, that informs what decisions that I make, what conferences am I going to budget for? How am I paying myself? All of those things as part of an education, so that person isn't just telling you what to do. You are working with them and then you can direct them with your business goals and ideas and they can help support them with your business goals and ideas and they can help support you with what they know. 14:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which I love. 14:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's a huge part of the money team and for me. You said that your accountant and bookkeeper are one and the same. Mine are two completely separate people. 15:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, okay. 15:04 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Okay, so the accountant does just the taxes and tax planning which we have our quarterly meeting, and then the bookkeeper is a completely separate person who does work at the accountant's office and they do my monthly profit and loss reports and send that to me Any day-to-day. They have access to my QuickBooks so they're seeing everything that I'm seeing basically. So they're kind of a different point of contact and I appreciate the separation because my bookkeeper is an expert in the bookkeeping aspect. So if I have questions I go to that person, if I have questions about taxes I go to this person. I like that separation but it doesn't have to be that way, it just happens to be that way. 15:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, no, and I agree, I feel like mine is a very unique case because she did our taxes before, but she always did her taxes. First I didn't have her as my ongoing accountant forever. I used to just go to her once a year and then I realized we developed a relationship and I realized I was like God, I hate entering, I hate having to do this every month. She goes. Well, I can do it for you. And I was like oh, yes, please. 16:08 So I think also, what's wonderful is isn't it nice that now we have things that like, especially in our business, our income comes in electronically and that can be filtered right into, so I don't have to manually like oh, I wrote a check, I don't have to manually enter it into QuickBooks like I had to do 10 years ago, 15 years ago, right, oh, I have a checkbook. Who writes checks anymore? I mean, I still have a checkbook and I do have to write checks every once in a while, but I mean, gosh, it's so nice that if I get a client payment that comes in via PayPal and I think it could be a whole separate other episode was what are your methods of payment? Because you got to make it easy right and what's important to know about that. But PayPal, Stripe, Wix, backend payments, QuickBooks allows payments, so I have lots of different banks 16:57 right. These are considered banks, right. Paypal's considered a bank, stripe's considered a bank, and so the fact that QuickBooks can integrate these in automatically it doesn't do it perfectly, but the fact is is if I get something that comes into my PayPal, simultaneously, it is fused into my online QuickBooks account, which is nice, so I don't have to enter things in and again, like I don't, but she does, and she'll make sure that it's categorized properly, because sometimes it tries to automatically categorize and it doesn't work right, but she's on top of the categories and making sure that. Then I know, oh gosh, I'm spending a whole lot of money on subscriptions or whatever. That In a lot of ways because the manual method was tedious. 17:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's super tedious. And imagine throwing into that someone pays you personally instead of paying your business. How much that like throws a wrench in the whole bookkeeping plans and everything else, which is why it is important to start with the separation of business and personal accounts. It's enough, you know, just the bookkeeping itself for your business is enough. Then adding in additional things to have to add and subtract, and forgot that I have this card. I use my credit card for everything personal business. It makes it really difficult down the line, especially as you grow your business. So, yeah, it's great to have everything electronically, it's great to be able to be paid in multiple different bank accounts or different accounts, but keeping it all under the umbrella of your business, separate from you personally, is really, I would say, like the baseline. 18:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think the simpler the better. But then again, for me and anybody that knows me, I have multiple departments of my business, or multiple businesses really. I'm not just Ann Gengu's, I'm not just VO Boss that's one of my brands and then I'm also Ann Gengu's of Voice Productions and I'm also VO Peeps, and so I've got really kind of three different streams of business that come in. And you know, of course I'm always looking for more streams of income. And so you know, of course I'm always looking for more streams of income. And so you know, I think if you can keep it simple, I'll take income any way you can throw it at me, but for my accountant I've got to make sure that it's organized and easy. So the more that I diversify my business and again I'm thinking of diversifying yet again for another brand, just because I like to keep it interesting. So I've got another brand coming up, but I'll discuss that later. Got another brand coming up, but I'll discuss that later and so I want to try to make it as simple as possible for my accountant but yet still allow clients to pay me in a number of different ways. 19:26 I will make mention that I had my one business account, which I had to, actually had to change over to a new business account, and the reason why is because I changed my name. I originally was a DBA under and speak and then when I went and I created the S Corp, I became Ann Genguza Voice Production, just changed the name. But because I did that, all of a sudden it became like a thing with my bank that said, hey, who's this? Ann Genguza Voice Production. So because I didn't have the two registered at once, I didn't go back in DBA and add it in. They registered at once. I didn't go back and DBA and add it in. 20:04 They then said my business account was not valid under the name and speak. So I had to open up a new business account. And so it amazed me just how tied in that one business account was to everything that I did, to my PayPal, to my Stripe, to my website here, pay me. Everything would go on my Venmo, all my Bank of America was tied into that account. Or my cards, my debit cards, were all tied into that one business account, and transitioning it over became like oof. That's an event. As a matter of fact, I still haven't completely transitioned over and completely closed the old account, so I still have money coming into two accounts. Now it's even more important that I have a team or I have people really watching both accounts. 20:44 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah for sure your new business is being treated as a new business, even though it's not. 20:50 It's the same business under a different name. 20:52 But that kind of tells you why it's so important to really start and plan it, to create almost the foundation for how you're going to be separating your accounts, the names, how you're getting paid, what's being paid in taxes, who's going to be your team to oversee all of that. Really setting up the structural foundation of the financial components of your business how that's run is really important. The unfortunate thing is it really is tedious and time-consuming when you're in the process that you're in. But you only have to do it once and you learn the process so that you know what to do in the future. I just recently purchased a rental house in my home state of Texas and I was speaking to my accountant about like I've never done this before, what do I do, and she said oh well, you just treat it like you treat your other business. And for me, having the experience of doing this with my business my voiceover business has actually taught me what I can do. To copy paste the principle the idea, so once you get this. 21:54 Once you understand how you're working your business and creating the structure for your business and the team that you need to help you, you can actually take that knowledge and just copy and paste it to whatever the next thing or the next industry is, which is really pretty great. 22:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. So, in addition to, let's say, your bookkeeper and your accountant that does taxes, is there any other member of your team or anything else that you can recommend for bosses? And also I'm sure the bosses are like oh my God, I'm not even making money at voiceover, how am I going to afford? Right, I want to address that as well. 22:28 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right. So, like I said, this is a grow as you go situation. I did not start by having a CPA and a bookkeeper, and you know the other members of my team, which I'll talk about in a second. So I would say, start with what do you need in the moment. If what you need in the moment is an accountant, which I would say everybody's got to pay taxes, so I would start there is having an accountant. Maybe it's not somebody that you have on retainer, but it is someone that you can maybe check in with once or twice a year outside of tax time, so that you can make sure that you are educated on what you need to be doing to prepare yourself for tax time. I would start there if you can, and then, if you can, grow to having that person be more of a person that you work with on an ongoing basis. That will definitely help you as you grow. Bookkeeping is something that I think you should understand how to do on your own. 23:24 Oh, I agree, I think you should educate yourself first, you should definitely educate yourself, but eventually it's something that you might want to outsource to someone else. For me, my metric is do I like doing it? Am I good at doing it? If the answer to both of those things is no, I will find someone I like that. That is their gift. 23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Shop around. I mean, it's got to be somebody you trust. Again, your financial life is, I think, very personal and people want to be very secure about it. So it does take a special relationship, I think, with a person that you trust, with your numbers and your bank accounts. 23:59 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And you might need to, yeah, shop around. You might need to work with multiple people. 24:08 The CPA that I'm with now is not the CPA I was with two years ago, and so this is still a relatively new relationship that she and I that we're cultivating, even with this bookkeeper. So there's a lot to learn, but you need to learn about it from a person who, like I said, has that heart of a teacher who wants to help educate you. That's how I would take it, and that's actually what I did was at first, I was working with someone who was just doing taxes and it was up to me and I was clearly not up for the job of bookkeeping, which is why I had those three weeks of panic in late March early. 24:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) April. 24:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But you can grow as you go and find the people who can help educate you. Now I also have I think we talked about this in our past episode but I have an assistant who for the day-to-day applications in my business making sure invoices are sent, making sure they are paid, making sure they're marked as paid, not only in QuickBooks, which she and I do together, but also making sure that there are no outstanding invoices like that kind of day-to-day thing. 25:12 Some people have a bookkeeper do it, I do it with my assistant and, to give her credit, she's really the one who's like more on that day-to-day in terms of data entry and things like that. Obviously, it's something that not every VO boss is going to have an assistant at whatever stage in their business. It took me a while to get to that point, but I have found it helpful because then it's like one less thing that I'm doing in terms of the day-to-day touch points. That I'm doing in terms of the day-to-day touch points. And then, finally, I work with a financial advisor, because I wanted to work with someone who could help me understand my finances as a whole as a business owner and personally, and what's great is that I will have quarterly meetings with the financial advisor, the bookkeeper, the CPA and myself. 26:00 we are all on a big like money call quarterly. 26:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And. 26:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I have monthly meetings with my financial advisor about my personal goals with money and also, you know, with the business, and she can give me feedback. Like one of the things she said to me was hey, if you don't understand something in these meetings, I would love to see you show a little bit more courage and ask if you don't understand, because while I say yeah, I have the heart of a teacher. 26:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sometimes I don't even know what to ask, and so I just you shake your head and go okay, uh-huh yeah sometimes you're just like okay, yeah. I get it uh-huh and I'm like I have no idea. I have no idea where they're going with that yeah. 26:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But it's totally okay, even as the boss, the VO boss, to not understand, and that's why you're relying on these people. 26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. 26:53 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But really, truly like lean into your curiosity and understand, because these people that you're working with like I said, the ones I'm working with now, I wasn't working with two years ago. You may work with a new team at some point, and so you want to go in with a level of armed with the knowledge about how your business is run and what your goals are for your business, so that you can direct your team instead of them telling you what to do, because you are the boss, absolutely, and what a wonderful note to end on. 27:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you are the boss and so, yeah, you need to educate yourself so that you can direct these people with your financial aspect of your business, which is so very important and so very close to our hearts as we run our successful businesses. So I manifest that, danielle, thank you so much. I could go on and on and on. Now I just thought like a hundred other questions which I'm going to ask you in our next episodes. But, bosses, stay tuned for this brand new series called Boss Money Talks with Danielle Fanville. I am so, so happy you were here today, danielle. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge. Bosses, I'm giving a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtlcom. All right, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, thanks, y'all. 28:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.

Grow your voiceover business with actionable insights and expert advice from THE BOSSES! We dive into pivotal resources and strategic investments necessary for your success. The BOSSES share transformative coaching strategies that can shift your whole perspective on script interpretation and character understanding. By aligning your unique strengths with market demands, you can stay relevant. We emphasize the lifelong commitment to ongoing training and professional coaching, along with the need for top-notch demos and a polished website. Your website serves as your professional storefront, boosting your visibility and credibility with potential clients. Practical advice on budgeting, wise investments, and cutting unnecessary expenses will help you navigate financial challenges and maximize your resources to grow your voice acting career. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzacom. 00:22 - Testimonial (Ad) As I was getting more and more into the voice acting industry, I started realizing that it'd probably be really good to start specializing in certain sectors. I started talking with Anne and we realized that corporate might be really good for me, both in the way that I thought about things and in the aspect of the industries around me, what would be good for me to market with. So we decided to go with corporate, and it only took a handful of sessions with Anne for me to realize that with. So we decided to go with corporate, and it only took a handful of sessions with ann for me to realize that I was looking at sentences differently because of the way that she was teaching me, um, the way that I had to think about my character in the mint in the middle of like a paragraph or in the middle of even just the sentence itself. She really drove home the fact that you have to think about these things. There might not be a place given to you whenever you get the copy. There might not be a person there whenever you get the copy, however, that has to be there. There has to be some sort of connection in order for you to really understand that character in your corporate narration. 01:18 Moving past that and into other sides of different industries, I started doing more video game work and realized that the way that she taught me about sentences, the way that she taught me about my character and realizing that there is another person there even if it's not in the copy, there is another person there it was almost revolutionary. I absolutely love the way that I look at sentences now and the way that I go about my work, and she really changed all of that. I have to give her as much credit as I can. I know I know it sounds weird saying that the fundamentals were revolutionary, but the way that she teaches it, the way that she makes you think about it, it was revolutionary to me and it definitely has helped me a lot in my journey. 01:55 - Intro (Announcement) even now, it's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza. 02:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my lovely special guest, co -host Lau Lapides. Hey Anne, hi Lau, how are you Fabulous? How are you? I am awesome. Thank you so much. Ah, Law, I've had a busy week, a busy week with students, and I've made an observation that I might have mentioned to you before, but the observation to me is that lately, especially with the economy not being the best, I've had a lot of students who spend time talking to me about how they're very frustrated that they've not been able to move ahead, and that they know that they need coaching, or they know that they need more coaching, or they need a new demo, or they need a website, but yet they can't afford it, and so I wanted to like maybe talk to the bosses about resources and how maybe we can wisely utilize resources in order to grow our businesses, because I just have been hearing it so so much lately, Lau. 03:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Me too. I mean, when we work with students and have clients, it's a constant state of conversation. And it really is true, it's a bad economy and we understand inflation. 03:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're the starving artists, we know what's going on. 03:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, exactly yes we understand how much milk and eggs cost, like everyone does. We can't shove that under the rug. It's real. It affects everyone. There's an impact. We totally get that. But I'm of the belief system and the training and background that we have to make money. Yeah, so we have to make money before we make money, right. What I mean by that is we have to create it like an alchemist out of nothing. We have to make it happen so that we have those resources to go out and do what we need to do. 04:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I like that, yeah, we need to have money so that we can invest money, so that we can grow our business, and if we don't have that money, there's got to be ways that we can create that money. As you said and I like to manifest it right Come from abundance right, and not necessarily have my dark cloud over my head saying it's not possible, I can't do this. I really think that the mental state has a lot to do with it, as well as being resourceful. So I know that for some of my students, when they talk about what are they doing to invest in their business and Lau, what are the absolute essentials that people need in order to run a successful voiceover business in terms of things that money that they have to invest? What are the things that are the absolute essentials? 04:49 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right. I think we all can agree those of us who are in the industry that training, coaching, classwork, is just a basic. It's just the most rudimentary that we have to have, and it's something that is a lifelong learning. It's not just five weeks, six weeks, one day's something that is a lifelong learning. It's not just five weeks, six weeks, one day. It really is a lifelong learning, and so we have to be careful how we invest in that, because we know it's for the long run. It's not just a quick hit, overnight success and go. It really is going to be throughout your career that you're going to need retraining, you're going to need to upscale your training, and so we have to be careful how we plan for that and how we utilize our resources. But I would say training leading to your production work of your demos is baseline. 05:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yes, I am a coach and a demo producer and so, of course, I'm going to agree with that. But I agree that I mean honestly not just because that's part of that's my livelihood, but honestly, bosses, your product is your voice, right, and you need to showcase that product to your potential clients. And so the best way to do that is to make your voice the very best that it can be. And I mean, how else do you do that outside of getting training and coaching and practice and classes and workshops and that sort of thing? And then you need to have the medium in which to showcase that range of talent and that range of acting skills that you have, and that is, more often than not, your demo, and it has to be able to be available for people to listen to, right, so it needs to get in front of people's eyes, it needs to be distributed so that you can then sell it as a product. 06:25 And so the very essentials I'm right there with you are the training to get your voice to be the product that it needs to be, to be competitive right in this industry and to be competitive so that you can make money with that voice, and you need to have the demos so that you can showcase that. And a lot of people will say to me well, do I really need the demos? I do auditions right. So my answer to that is yes, you need to also audition and do the custom auditions that your potential clients want. But also you need to have that medium that sits in your online storefront or somewhere on a roster, like on a pay-to-play, on a roster, in all the places that it can sit while you're sleeping, so that other people can listen to it and make their decisions and say, oh, I need that voice. 07:13 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, case in point and we had a big job, big client come through about a week ago and we did the call and it was right on the script, the audition was right on the script. Sure enough, they came up with two of our people that they wanted to shortlist and they said we need to hear their demos, yeah, yeah. Now if we came back as agents and said sorry, they don't have demos, can they just record something for you? Already your credibility goes down the drain Because they're thinking of course you have demos, you've selected them for your agency roster, so they're sitting there ready to go right, which they are With these particular people. They are, and we sent it, we expedited that right out. It wasn't a question, it wasn't a problem. And so the least amount of problem that you can cause, the least amount of friction that you can cause in terms of having the best practices ready to go, well, you have to pay for that. That's one of those resources you just have to pay for. You have to have it. 08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you have to have the training, you have to have the demo, and that showcases your product. 08:16 Then, once you have your product right, you have to have a storefront right or a way to distribute that product, and there's lots of different mechanisms to do that. 08:24 The first and foremost that I can see is, if you're a business today, you have to have a website, and so investment into a website. So it means the hosting of the website, it means the creation of a website that deems you as a professional right, so that it looks as if you are a professional voice actor and that's what you do for a living. And so I did not go to school for website creation right, and even though I did try to do it myself I mean, I managed a website a long time ago but I'm not a graphic artist so I do believe that you can invest some of your money into having somebody help you make a beautiful place to showcase your product, because for me, it makes a difference. The packaging makes a difference. I don't know human nature, right, I love pretty packaging and a website that is done well and done professionally and is efficient so that you can sell that product, is absolutely worth the investment. 09:15 So that would be my next thing I would say that is so important is your online storefront, and so that includes somebody who's going to host it, and that's typically going to be like a monthly or a yearly cost. You have to buy that domain name too, which is yet another like yearly cost or monthly cost, and then you have to have somebody that designs that website and maybe maintains it or keeps it up to date, and if that's something that you can do, then that's fine, but I would say, if it's not something that is your specialty, I say that there's another worthy investment, right. 09:47 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And of course it goes without saying, but we have to say it and that's having some sort of home studio set up. Oh gosh, yes. So for all of the new folks who are listening in right now, I know it's so obvious to us, but a lot of new people are coming into the industry and saying how do I set that up? What do I need at home? How much money do I spend? Well, I'll tell you. You have to have the basics for your home studio setup, and that does include SourceConnect. 10:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So now, when we sign a talent under a contract, they have to have SourceConnect, it has to be available to them. Now I have so many people that say that they have SourceConnect but they're like, look, I'm going to wait until I get the job and then I'm going to get SourceConnect Right, just having SourceConnect myself. I mean, unless they've changed things considerably, it's not an easy thing to do within a short amount of time. I mean, I know that there needs to be ports opened up in your router in order to allow the stream and not be firewalled out, and so for me, the setup I mean required some time, and I would hesitate to say wait until you get that job before you invest in it. I mean, I invested in the one-time fee and there's also a monthly option so that I'm at the ready whenever I'm needed, and so it sits there waiting for my client, and so I would say don't skimp on that. And so, yeah, I can't believe I like. That just eluded me. I just assuming everybody has that studio. 11:09 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I know right, and yet a lot of new people coming into the industry don't know yet. They really don't know. And I would say okay, if you want to wait, you wait. But I'm telling you this it's a psychological decision you're making, because what you're saying is I could wait on an excellent mic. I could wait on a good computer. I could wait on almost everything. I, a good computer, I could wait on almost everything. I could wait until I'm working. But which came first, the chicken or the egg? You have to have good stuff. You have to invest in yourself before others are going to invest in you. 11:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and these days you have to have great sound. 11:42 I mean you have to be able to—and, like you know, with our audition demolitions. When we are judging and giving feedback and criteria, the first thing that will make me throw out pretty much unless if somebody's completely botched up the name of the file, because there is a specific way to name the file that most casting directors prefer, and so if you can't follow directions, that's number one. But number two is if the first thing I hear is that you have a poor studio sound, I'm throwing that audition out the window, because that's something that I need right to be pristine. Hear is that you have a poor studio sound, I'm throwing that audition out the window, because that's something that I need right to be pristine. 12:16 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I also would say you need to invest in some sort of SEO in terms of your marketing. I know that's the big buzzword now. Everyone marketing, direct marketing. Half the people don't know what that means or know what that is. And I say listen, don't think of it as marketing, Think of it as building relationships, Like you're connecting with people, you're connecting with prospects, you're connecting the dots so that you can work. That's really what you're trying to do. Well, that's expensive and time consuming. After a while, Just think about this how much do you pay for Wi-Fi? How much do you pay for your computer access? That's all stuff you pay for. You can't do it without paying for those things. Right? Those are your investments. 13:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've got to piggyback on that and say technologically right, pay for an internet connection that is stable and allows you to communicate efficiently with your clients and potential clients. So don't go cheap on your internet connection because, especially with SourceConnect, you need it to be a good ethernet connection to your router, and it has to be an ethernet connection, by the way. So that's another thing I would say. Now your studio needs SourceConnect. You're going to have to make an investment to make sure that you can get to that router using an Ethernet connection versus a Wi-Fi connection, because that is unstable. A lot of times Wi-Fi will cut in and cut out and the last thing you want is to be doing the best take of your life ever while you're connected to another studio using SourceConnect and just have the connection cut out and that doesn't look good for you as a professional and it doesn't look good for any of us and have business speed. 13:55 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, you know what I mean have your best plan that you can have Get fiber if you can I have gig fiber? 13:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Get boosted. 14:00 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, get boosted, get a boost. 14:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you need a boost, like do whatever, you need't connect or why you're dropping out, or why the transmission is bad, right, sometimes you can't help it, but most of the time you can, yeah, and I'm going to say that have students that are in all stages of coming into this industry and some of them aren't quite sure if it's going to work for them right, so they're hesitant to spend the money. 14:26 But if you come to someone in your initial steps of trying to get into this industry and you're training and you already don't have enough money to train properly, then that tells you something. 14:38 That tells you that you need to get that money together in any way that you can right in order to advance and move forward. 14:46 And so, really, if you're coming into the industry for training and then you just want to get that demo right away, I think you need to change your mindset, because it's not going to be obviously, as we've said a billion times before, it's not that you can do this in a couple of sessions and then get a demo and go out and start making money. I mean, this is a process that if you look at things wisely and you use your resources wisely, you can steadily grow and move forward. And so that means that when you are starting and you are investing the money into training and then you're finding out if this is something that I find joy from and I have passion about continue to invest that money, but maybe not spend trillions of dollars right away on something that you need to continually invest in and then not have that money. I mean, I had a couple of part-time jobs that kept things flowing in the household while I was transitioning to full-time. 15:39 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Listen, you and I are old school in the sense that we had more demands. We'd just get another job. We'd get another side hustle, we'd make it work, we'd go under the seat cushion and save our pennies, like there was never an excuse in our backgrounds as to why we couldn't do something. I'm not suggesting you should get into major debt Like I don't love debt, don't get into debt but there are times where you do need to acquire some debt in the investment of your career. Like a lot of college people are going into college and spending $75,000 a year. Well, they're making an investment in their career, right? 16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How interesting is that? Like you bring that up, I think things have probably changed in terms of are people spending $75,000 a year to go to a school now for college education? I mean, things are changing. I mean people do, but back in the day it was a thing it wasn't even thought about twice. You paid that money because it was expected that you paid that money for training, got the education and then you went out and got that job and that investment was going to pay off in a nice job. 16:38 Now things have changed a little bit, I would say in terms of like, is it necessary to have that college degree? I mean, I think it's necessary to have education in some form. It doesn't necessarily have to be a college degree, but education in the career path that you plan on pursuing. And so if voice acting happens to be that one, then you're going to have to have some money to pursue it. It's not that quick money grab. We're going to make a lot of money and not invest a lot of money. So you have to step through, I think, carefully and wisely, and so maybe give up that Starbucks on a given day. That can really help you. I mean a couple of pennies here and there can really help you to save up for the training that you need or that demo that you need. 17:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I would agree. Yeah, I would look out for your expenses. Make sure you're budgeting so that you know exactly what you're spending monthly. Look at all the surplus stuff that you're getting that you really don't need, whether it's a membership you don't need. Whether it's a latte you don't need. Whether it's taking excessive trips that you don't need to do, whether it's I mean. I could go on and on, and I'm not a financial advisor. This is not professional advice. I'm just telling you from my experience how I come up with a lot of money at the drop of a hat by sacrificing. Well, we can be frugal. 17:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We can be frugal right. 17:55 Of course, yes, we could. It's one of the reasons like so now I'm going old school but one of the reasons why, when I was a child, my parents took us camping, right, they couldn't afford big, expensive trips, so we went camping and so, you know, we went to the parks where we could get in for like five dollars a night and that kind of a thing, and so that's how we were able to live a comfortable life, I think, and really also have fun. So I think you mentioned the trips and gosh, I love taking trips, but there are times when I can't afford the trips that I want to take, like every other day. 18:28 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, I know, here's another obvious one for you a great computer. 18:34 - Intro (Announcement) I need a great, relatively updated. 18:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) It doesn't have to be spanking new, but I work with so many people, annie and I know you do that say oh, my computer's like 10 years old. I don't know if it can hold the audio. I'm like well, upgrade it. Go, update it, because it shouldn't be 10 or 15 years old. 18:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's a wise investment, Absolutely. I mean, you're talking to a girl, a tech girl, here. I'm like at this point, actually my computer at home needs to be upgraded. I just know that because now it's starting to do weird things. You know, when your computer starts to do weird things, like it reboots on its own and it's like some unknown error. 19:07 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, launching 12 programs without you being there. 19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, there's a time when it becomes a necessary investment, and I just know that I'm reaching that time to get a new computer and I know that I'm reevaluating my monthly subscriptions right now as well. Case in point here that my email service provider has now doubled their price to me, and this is the email service provider where I send out the boss blasts. And so now I have to go back and actually crunch the numbers and make sure because I'm charging a certain amount for a boss blast and a certain amount for a monthly boss blast, and now that they've raised the price on my email service provider, I have to make sure that I'm still generating a profit, at least enough to pay for it right and to reinvest for another year of it. So periodically you've got to just take a look at those numbers to make sure that you are still okay with making a profit and moving forward in your business, because you don't really want to. 20:04 I mean the first few years though of your business is probably going to be in the red. A lot of new businesses show in the red for the first few years, but you can't do that for too long, otherwise the IRS will be like, hmm, that sounds familiar. There's something going on there, then we might get audited. And I actually have been audited twice already, not because I was suspicious or it showed any suspicion, just because I mean it is our own business. 20:29 And I've been in business long enough, you're in business long enough, you're going to get audited. 20:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And so yeah, you want to make sure that if you get audited you're ready. Yeah, you're ready for it. 20:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that's your next investment is an accountant, oh my gosh Accountant. 20:43 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm married to one. Everyone needs one. I'm telling you Accountant, someone who really can deal with your books, who really understands that you run a business, you're an entrepreneur, deals with your receipts in an appropriate way, what are your tax write-offs, getting you money back at the end of the year? You need someone who's clever, creative and wonderful and works cleanly and in an organized way. If you don't have someone, hire someone and a lawyer and an attorney, someone who can go over contracts with you. 21:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes because none of us are attorneys. A lawyer is lovely. I just engaged my lawyer the other day, so, yes, it's wonderful to have one that you can go to if you should need to. 21:23 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And then, of course, another obvious one that I have to say you need a smartphone. It's really important, and those of you who are actors, you have to have a smartphone because all your self-taping is going to be on your iPhone. But you really have to have it because oftentimes people would describe it including myself, as your walking office. Like a lot of us don't have home phones any longer. We put all the investment into the cell phone, into the mobile, and we're on the road. Annie, are you not in a car day and night, working from your car? Well, I mean hands-free, of course. Well, you're in California, so, of course, hands-free. But the point is, I was in my car half the day today. I was working. The whole time I was working, yeah, absolutely, because I don't have to be back at an office. 22:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You need to be able to respond to your client inquiries right all the time. So that is important and that is something again like that can be expensed that smartphone. 22:15 And so those are the things I mean. Gosh, I can come up with a lot of things, and it's funny because a lot of people will say, oh well, I didn't realize that was involved. I mean, when you talk about marketing right, that effort of marketing I mean half of the episodes in VO, boss, more than half are about how to build your business, and marketing is such a huge part of building your business because I always say that you can have the best voice in the world, but it doesn't do you any good if nobody knows about it, and so marketing is key. And then that includes marketing is like your time, right, your time in finding leads and generating leads and nurturing relationships, and so that's something you have to invest in and you may want to invest in some help in doing that. 23:00 You may want to have a boss blast. I'm just going to say that. 23:03 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, you took the words right out of my mouth because I was going to say when you're at the tipping point, and you'll know when you're at the tipping point, meaning you just can't handle more than you're doing, you need to hire a VA. It's really important to get that one assistant in that can take the load off, that has expertise that maybe you don't have, that can really take on some of your projects and push the needle of your business forward Absolutely. 23:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and so what you need to do, get yourself a business mentor too. I mean gosh. I just want to say that I do a once a month special, the once a month special with Tom Deere, the VO strategist, and he's wonderful. I love Tom, yeah, he's amazing, and so I highly recommend Tom in terms of helping you to, like, get your business together. Do you need to register your business? How do you do it? Do you have a plan? Do you have a strategy? I mean, that can really be a wise investment. And again, maybe not that Starbucks, maybe not that of course, I say that because I've been buying clothes all the time but maybe not that extra pair of shoes, or maybe not. It's one of those things. Where are the priorities? 24:07 - Intro (Announcement) And I don't want to be like a mom. 24:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm not, but honestly, it becomes where I hear this so often and it's exhausting. I'm just going to say it's exhausting because I think to myself gosh, I mean, I, when I first started, I had quit my full-time job and I was like, oh, I'm going to go into voiceover full-time, and so now, what do I do? Right, you become resourceful. Right, you have to become resourceful, you have to really do what it takes if you want to make a go of this and you want to be successful. And there's a lot of people who have support, people who will be like hey, so what's going on? Are you making money? What's happening? And so I mean we've got enough of that as it is. We need to really question our own selves to make sure that we are making the wise choices that we can make in order to move forward. 24:56 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I love that I mean, we could go on and on with this, but I don't want to scare everyone to think you need everything at once. You can layer as you go. 25:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and it can be something that you wisely invest. You make a plan and it happens little by little. I mean, gosh, our overnight success Lau. Mine took a long time. 25:16 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I laugh. My 30-year overnight success? Yes, exactly. 25:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, it was a lot of blood, sweat and work, and work. 25:24 Tears, a lot of work and a lot of work doing stuff that maybe I didn't want to do, right, that I was like damn, I wish I could have taken that trip. Or I really want that pair of shoes. But right now, right, I want to grow my business, and so what do I need to do? I've got a payment coming up right for my internet. Or I'm going to upgrade my internet, or I need to upgrade my computer, or I need to improve my studio sound, which the one thing I'll say about studio sound, I mean, once you get it set, it's a no-brainer, it kind of just stays, it's great. I set, it's a no-brainer, it kind of just stays, it's great. I mean equipment doesn't really die. I mean I've had my microphone for years, this studio here, it's not falling apart, that's for sure. So I've made the investment and I'm done For the most part. 26:07 - Intro (Announcement) I've got everything for a good long while. 26:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So that's okay, I got my backup right. I got my backup mic, I got my backup computer. I have things in case things break. I've got the backups, and so that took time and you know what. 26:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Get help in determining. Yeah, it takes a long time. Yeah, get help in determining what you want versus what you need. Yeah, I like that. Like, really keep that journal in front of you Want and need. Do you have like wants and needs Right? We think it's so strong. When we want something, we want to get it, but we don't oftentimes need it. We need what we need and really determining what do we need first, and then later we can reward ourselves when we're making extra money. 26:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's all sequencing it is, it's choreography, and we did touch upon and I'm going to say, just because I know that training we talked about that was like one of the first essentials. But sometimes there are professional students who train and train and train and train and train and yet it's almost like they're scared to start and so you've got to be careful with that too, and I would highly recommend that you go back and listen to that episode. 27:06 Bosses, We'll put a link in the show notes, but yeah, you've got to start at some point. 27:11 - Testimonial (Ad) You've got to start no-transcript. 27:27 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And with that, don't go down rabbit holes you don't need to go down. Don't go into major technical fixes, don't go into major learning curves during your workday unless you have to, and don't overload on the training throughout your day. That will procrastinate from what you need to get. To Make sure you get your work time in first, then do your professional development and education time if possible, because you don't want to take up a whole day or a whole weekend or whatever, unless you really need it, unless you plan for it. Absolutely, I think you just need to plan for it, 27:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know it's tough out there, bosses, but we have the faith that you can do it. I mean, if you become resourceful and you invest wisely. I really fully believe, if you've got the passion and the desire and you blast as always. Yes, it was. I'm going to give a great big shout out to one of the things that I've invested in, that's IPDTL. You, too, can invest wisely and be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye, see you next week. 28:36 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via IPDTL.

In this episode, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere dissect the key components of building a robust online presence. From identifying customer pain points to harnessing the power of color psychology in your website design, The BOSSES explore what it takes to convey competence and reliability. We also delve into the subtle yet vital aspects of maintaining an easy-to-navigate, professional website that establishes credibility and trust. Learn how consistent visual cues and coherent storytelling can make or break your brand's effectiveness in today's competitive market. Finally, The BOSSES tackle the nuances of maintaining a consistent brand across social media platforms. We underscore the importance of professionalism and how off-brand or controversial content can jeopardize client relationships. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm here with my special guest co-host Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere, how are you? 00:30 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hey Anne, I'm good. How are you? I'm awesome. 00:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you very much. 00:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) You look fabulous today. 00:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why thank you? So do you. I love your coloring. 00:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Thank you, it's one of my Hawaii shirts because my wife's from Hawaii, so we go to Hawaii all the time. 00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. It's very boss. 00:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) Thank you. I love your blue because it kind of matches the coloring in the background. You look very branded today. 00:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why, thank you. You know I have multiple brands and multiple colors for my brands, and so it's interesting because red is typically my boss brand. But I thought, you know, let's work a little A&G and Guza brand in here as well, which is my blue, my signature blue. So I'm kind of combining them right now. And, yeah, I've been branded for a while yet, but I don't know, tom, what are your thoughts? I think we should talk about branding, because it is a big discussion among voice actors and it's like everybody makes a big deal like oh my God, I have to like figure out my brand, and they and it's like everybody makes a big deal Like, oh my God, I have to like figure out my brand and they stress out over it. And so let's talk about brands. I mean, how important is it for voice actors to brand these days? 01:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, my thoughts have evolved on this quite a bit over the past 15, 20 years or so. I used to be of the mind that every voice actor absolutely must brand themselves. They should design a logo, they should pick a font, they should pick a color scheme and then their demos, their business cards, their website, their social media content, all of their outbound marketing content newsletters and things like that should be 100% branded. It should be 100% aligned. 02:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well then, I fit the bill there for you. You're perfect. Okay, you're perfect. 02:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) But over the years when I had that perspective, I was focusing primarily on direct and indirect marketing strategies to get the bulk of my voiceover revenue. 02:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree, myself included. 02:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) I have representation. I'm on casting sites, but for me, direct and indirect marketing was the place and it's like the old mentality. It's like Anne, why aren't you wearing my glasses? Because they help me see better. So obviously they should help you see better. But gotten a little older, hopefully gotten a little wiser, and just looking at myself and looking at all the students I've had over the years and watching what other successful voice actors do, I don't know if everybody needs to brand themselves. 02:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, gosh Tom, for many years there was no branding, right, there was no internet. Well, I shouldn't say there was no branding, but it wasn't as visible. And so how did voice actors in the 80s stand out? 03:02 - Tom Dheere (Host) They didn't, they just auditioned and booked. 03:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They were managed by their agents, right or managers. And so they didn't have to necessarily brand their businesses. They became known for their voice and their agents were out there kind of branding for them, right. 03:20 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, their reputation was built solely on the quality of their auditions and the quality of the experience when they were in the recording studio working with the clients. And that was it. The value promise was the audition Sure, the value delivery was the recording session. Yeah, platforms on top of that. Most voice actors feel obligated in a way that they have to brand themselves because they have to be on all of these social media platforms and they have to be spewing out content all the time in the hopes that they will catch somebody's attention to stay top of mind to get them into and through the sales funnel and all of that stuff. 04:01 But to your point, if representation was the only casting portal in the industry, no, we wouldn't need to brand. There are online casting sites too pay-to-play sites, voice123, voicescom, vidalgo, what have you? You don't need to brand yourself on there either, because all it's about is the value promise of the audition and the value delivery of the recording session or delivering the files properly formatted, with the proper amount of takes, and you took the direction on the casting notice or whatever. You know what I mean. 04:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What about Fiverr? Just out of curiosity. I know we've had this, I know that's a bad F word but I think it depends on how the platform is marketing you right, or how are people finding out about you right On the platform? 04:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, and it's interesting because Fiverr and Upwork, which are technically online casting sites, they weren't designed as voiceover casting sites like Voice123 and Voicescom, but they seem to be conducive for voiceover casting. There's very little auditioning happening on Fiverr and Upwork. 04:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) People come and look and listen. 04:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's direct bookings. So, with that in mind, yeah, your branding actually is very important. 05:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your headshot's very important, I agree. 05:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) Your tagline, the verbiage, how you package and present yourself. Yeah, branding is important. 05:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then, if you're direct marketing, right, I feel that a brand is very, very important. If you're direct marketing and if people are finding you online, let's say at your website, like for me, tom, and we have different businesses, right, you and I I have multiple brands. I don't have a ton of time to audition, except for my agents, right, which that's a whole different way that I obtain my job, and I don't have any time literally these days to audition on pay-to-plays. However, I do exist on pay-to-plays because I want to make sure that I know the platform so that I can recommend to my students. So for me, my branding is still relevant, I would say, because that's how I get a lot of people that say, oh, the Ann Ganguza brand or Ann, I see you everywhere, and that's good, because that's kind of my purpose. 05:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, I have two brands. I have the Tom Dheere the H is silent, but I'm not voice actor brand and then I have the VO strategist brand, and both of them serve different needs. Well, obviously, one for me as a voice actor and then one for me as a voiceover business and marketing consultant and coach and mentor. What's interesting, and tell me, if you have this experience, is that your branding as Ann Gangu's a voice actor greatly informs your reputation and branding as Ann Gangu's a voiceover coach. Because, with a very precious few exceptions, like a Maurice Tobias or a Mary Lynn Wisner, you need to be a boots on the ground, successful, consistently working actor to be taken seriously as a voiceover coach. Absolutely, absolutely. 06:39 So a part of my branding as a VO strategist is go check me out at tomdeercom, listen to my demos, look at my YouTube channel, see all the work that I've done, because the fact that I've done a bunch of e-learning modules is one thing, but the fact that I was the voice of Inspector Gadget in the Inspector Gadget video game last year gives you a lot of street cred. So that attracts certain types of voice actors who want to do that sort of business. And even if they don't. They grew up on Inspector Gadget, so I'm writing the coattails of the brand of Inspector Gadget when I brand myself as Tom Dheere voice actor, because I was Inspector Gadget, which also then feeds into well, if he's able to book work like that, he's competent as a voiceover business and marketing coach. So they all feed into each other. 07:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. You said that you branded on the coattails of another brand and I think that's definitely a strategy. I mean he used to talk about that all the time is that to get credibility? If you are the voice of a brand that is out there and that is heard and seen, then that is your brand right, gaining credibility from another brand, and so it's kind of a strategic partnership. However, I think you can get that strategic partnership. It doesn't necessarily mean like oh, I'm Ann Ganguzza, I have to have blue. That's only a visual part of my brand, that is one part of the encompassing brand when people come to my website. But people if they don't see anything right. So there's a visual part of your brand, there's an audio part of your brand and then there is, I would say, an in-person, physical part of your brand as well that all contributes to who you are and if people decide if they want to work with you or not. 08:20 Right, there's that personality, part of your brand that says I'm reliable, I'm fast, I am accurate. I have the voice that can work with your brand and make it come alive. So there's so many aspects to branding besides, let's say, a website, which is what I think most people think. When they talk about branding, they think, oh, I've got to have that tagline Gosh. I gave up my tagline years ago because it just wasn't pertinent for my particular brand. It just wasn't, and I was out there showing my photograph a long time ago because for me it worked. I felt like people wanted to connect with a person and not necessarily an image of a microphone. 08:59 - Tom Dheere (Host) Sure, it's funny that you say that, because I've been teaching branding for well over 10 years and I've always told my students that branding is telling a story what is the story of you? But also there's usually two ways that you can tell your story as a voice actor from a branding perspective. You can brand your sound or you can brand your personality. So the more distinctive your sound is or the genres that you can do, the easier it is to brand in that direction. If you've got a particularly young voice or particularly deep voice, or if you do movie trailers primarily, or if you do military fiction, audio books exclusively or almost exclusively, it's a lot easier to brand. But the branding of your personality is what is the experience of working with you? So for years I used you as one of my examples of, yes, branding your personality using your tagline are you ready for awesome? 09:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's true. Are you ready for awesome? I like that. I did use that and I haven't used that in a while, so let's talk about that. Tom, tell me, what was it that attracted you to that particular aspect of my brand? 10:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) What attracted me to that is that you were setting expectations of what the experience of working with you was is like. So there's the value promise. Like I said, value promise and value delivery. This is about the value delivery. If you work with me, you're going to have a great experience. You're going to be working with a professional, intelligent, excited, ethical, prepared voice actor. That's what are you ready for. Awesome means to me. 10:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Geez, maybe I'll bring that back, Tom. 10:36 - Tom Dheere (Host) I mean, why not? 10:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that, I like that it meant something to you and yeah, absolutely, and it's not that I actually got rid of it, tom. Before that one, I had Dream Out Loud. That was my tagline, and I thought Dream Out Loud didn't do anything for me, necessarily because Dream Out Loud was kind of more focused on me rather than my client. Right, in terms of like, are they dreaming out loud? No, they need somebody that's not dreaming, they need somebody that can speak. Their brand, right, and so therefore, are you Ready for Awesome, kind of helps out their predicament in a much better way. So, yeah, actually I think that that's a great brand. I'll have to talk to my web person. 11:15 Your webmaster, business coach my webmaster to maybe bring that back. And it doesn't have to be all over my page, right it can be in certain parts of my page or in, let's say, in my signature file. It could be in a lot of different places, but I like that. You're right. It basically tells people this is what you're going to be working with. 11:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, and one of the key aspects of any successful brand, regardless of whatever sector that you're in healthcare, automotive, beverages or whatever is that an effective company is able to identify the pain points of the customer. What do you need, what are you struggling with? And then your branding helps you tell the story of how you can solve their problems, how you can address those pain points, how you can cure what ails them, so to speak. Are you ready for awesome is a great way of letting them know that if you work with me, everything's going to be okay, Everything's going to be taken care of, you're going to have an awesome experience and you're going to get what you need, which are quality audio files delivered on time, properly formatted and that help you tell the story of your company's brand most of the time right. 12:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now I do believe that people visually see that text, they read it, they comprehend it. There's also something to be said for your website in general, and we can have a whole other podcast on websites. But I do believe that, like when I go to purchase something from a website, I have to see that website and feel that I trust it and that the people behind that website have a valuable product and I can purchase that without fear that I'm not going to get that product delivered in a timely and quality manner. And so I assess a lot visually the product by looking at a website. If the website is not constructed in a professional manner, of what standards are today, I hesitate to click and buy. And so I do feel that if you are a voice actor that has a website out there and people happen upon your website, at least have it functionally and visually professional enough so that it instills trust in your potential client, so that they can say oh, okay, this looks safe, right For me. 13:31 I mean, gosh, it's like oh, I buy online all the time. I mean this is like the 21st century, right? We buy online all the time. So again, that place where I buy needs to instill trust in me. And now a quick word from our sponsor, which could be me. Hey bosses, are you looking for even more voiceover resources? Head on over to vopeepscom and take a look at our special Vopeeps VIP VIPs membership. You get access to over 350 hours of on-demand video workshops in addition to free live monthly workouts. Plus, you'll get 15% off each monthly VO Peeps workshop in the future. Sign up now at vopeepscom. 14:12 - Speaker 4 (Host) Hi, this is Debra Elaine Fowler sending a huge shout out to Anne for her VO Boss podcast. I've been listening now since the very first episode six years ago, and I always learn something new. The guests are interesting and Anne brings up topics that maybe I haven't thought about. I find myself researching new topics almost every week. Anne, keep it up, I love what you're doing. And now back to the show. 14:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) The website tells the story of you and of the experience they're going to have as a result of working with you, Because they're immediately. Obviously the first thing that happens as they go to the website is they see the website. Yeah, you know what are the colors that? 14:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) come out? 14:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) What are the fonts Right? How is it organized or laid out? What are the colors? What are the fonts? Is it easy to find your demos? 14:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I contact this person that's like so important to me? 15:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) Can I contact this person in the way that I want to contact them? Do I want to pick up the phone? Do I want to email them? Do I want to message them on Instagram, or do I want to use their contact form or any of a number of ways? So this tells the story of your competency as a voice actor, and it needs to be consistent. That's why you should be looking up the psychology of color when it comes to establishing a brand. It's like what is the type of voiceover work that you do? How does that reconcile with your personality? How does that reconcile with the needs of the customers that you want to attract? A lot of this stuff is very subconscious or unconscious on the part of voice seekers when they go to your website, but what's there and what isn't there speaks to your brand. 15:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And there's something to be said, like there's something almost intangible. When I go to a website and I say oh, oh, I like that, Like it's like pretty packaging, right, I mean. 15:52 I like that package, and so that makes me interested to want to find out more, and if the verbiage on the website helps me to find out more and gets me to where I need to be quickly. Because, again, I don't know. I mean, how many people go around just looking at websites to say, oh, that's a pretty website or, oh, I don't like that website. I mean, really there's a purpose, right, people are shopping around going to a website either finding information. 16:18 Maybe you somehow attracted them to get to your website to find out more about you and your brand and your voice. And if they can get that information easily and it seems to speak to you as being a credible, professional, trustworthy business, product right that they can purchase, then I think that really all has a handle on. It's like a part of the sales funnel, right? I feel like your brand is part of the sales funnel. 16:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) It absolutely is, and that also extends onto your social media platforms and the content that you're creating on the social media platform. If you're trying to brand yourself effectively and consistently, the branding on your social media platforms should line up perfectly with what's going on on your website the font, the logo, the color schemes, the banners, the verbiage and the content that comes out. All of this needs to be consistent Verbiage. 17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom verbiage, and that means if you're on a social media platform and verbiage is coming out of your mouth that isn't necessarily conducive to promoting your brand in a positive way. You might want to think about that. That means if you're going to be controversial or you're going to be spewing verbiage in your social platforms that may be off brand. You might want to consider maybe not doing that or having a completely different brand. I feel like personal brands and voice actor brands are very close. 17:40 It used to be, where, okay, I have a business brand and I'm going to only talk about business on that and I have a personal brand, but I feel like those two brands have really melded together over the years, tom. 17:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Oh, yes, no, they've completely blurred for a number of reasons. I mean, one reason right now is that if, through your marketing strategies, you've been able to get a voice seeker to go to your social media platforms or to your website, one thing they're trying to determine is are you human? 18:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah or are you an AI? That is slowly becoming more of a consideration for voice seekers, and if you're human, are you a good human. 18:12 - Tom Dheere (Host) And are you a good human there? 18:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) can be human actions that are controversial that would potentially harm their brand if they were to align right Strategically. We talked about strategic alignment with brands If they were to align with your brand right, it could hurt their brand. 18:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. That leads me to a great point, Anne, is when it comes to your branding. To be perfectly honest, the vast majority of voice seekers aren't paying any attention to anything we're doing on social media, and they're not paying attention to much that's going on on our website. However, they will vet you. They will check out your brand for the aforementioned AI reason and for exactly what you said because nobody wants to work with a voice actor who is an NDA violator. 18:52 Sure sure, absolutely. And starts talking about auditions that they did for projects that haven't been cast yet. 18:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or negatively about companies that they've worked with. 19:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Or client questions, whether it's warranted or not. 19:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, whether it's warranted or not, guys, just don't do that. 19:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) I see, specifically audiobook narrators regularly complaining about the publishers because, oh, I didn't get enough of a pronunciation guide or there were too many spelling errors on this manuscript, and I'm just as they're doing it. I'm like, what are you? 19:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) doing yeah yeah, why Because? 19:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) audiobook publishers are the ones that are the most likely to pay attention to your branding and pay attention to your website and pay attention to your social media platform and if you're kvetching about your client like that's a great way to lose a client. 19:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's like anybody complaining about their employer. Right, hr is continually going out online to see if you're making complaints and then that's the first line of fire to get fired if you're speaking negatively. And so even if you think it's private, like in a Facebook group, and it's marked a private group, it's not. Screenshot is like literally a couple of keystrokes away, and even if it says it's private, it's not. We all know things are not private. 20:00 I mean yesterday I happened to be on a family outing at Disney and everything I talked about came up on my Facebook feed just saying so nothing is private. And so really just for your brand's sake, and so I do want to. I know now we've got into the whole what's good for your brand, but let's go back to Tom. If someone is just doing jobs through their agent, is it required that they have a website now and a brand specifically, or maybe not? 20:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) Website yes, brand maybe. 20:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay. Maybe, what's on the website then? 20:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, well, from a branding perspective logo consistency of font on the logo itself and the tagline and with the verbiage on the website the color scheme that you have established on this logo needs to align with the color scheme that is on the homepage and all the other pages, unless there's a possibility you've branded yourself based on genre or subgenre. 20:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is this for voice actors who are managed or who have talent, agents only, or is this? 21:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's a great question. I can't speak to what voice seekers that work through managers and agents are doing. How much are they vetting the voice actors that are represented by the agents and managers that they're working with? Most of the time they're probably not. It's usually just send me these auditions. We'll pick the person that we think is the best who vocally represents this company brand message. 21:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Unless you're well-known, I would say right as a video game, character or an animation, character and then I think, your brand is important online. Right your actions in your social media. I'm thinking Daniel Ross, who recently, you know, is now the voice of Donald Duck. Bob Bergen has the voice of Porky. Pig, I mean and Christina Milizia, who I just interviewed as well on this podcast, and Christina Milizia who? 21:41 I just interviewed as well on this podcast the characters that they represent. She has to be careful. They have to be careful what they do online and also their actions, because a lot of them might go to cons and do autograph signing, and so that's an in-person branding as well, so they have to be very careful about their brand. 21:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, there are two groups of voice actors. There's public figures and private figures. Public figures in voiceover are those who do cartoons, video games and audiobooks. Okay, because if you're an audiobook narrator, you're being followed by authors, rights holders and listeners of the audiobooks. Okay, and it's a very public thing because these are very front-facing products audiobooks, cartoon and video game voice actors are also public figures, also just because of the fan base. The fan base really wants to know and loves to adore and follow the voice actors who are the voices of their favorite cartoon and video game characters. Everybody else is kind of clumped into the private voice actors. With the exception of, for me, inspector Gadget, red Dead Redemption and a handful of other things. I'm primarily a private voice actor. So me talking about my e-learning and her explainer experience online, nobody cares, nobody cares that? 22:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom Dheere. I'll tell you what his e-learning module. 23:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) That HR video he narrated oh for God's sakes. Like nobody does that. Nobody does that, nobody cares, nobody cares about that. And yes, that, nobody does that, nobody cares, nobody cares about that. And yes, your branding should be influenced by that Absolutely. So you want to be careful. So if you're a private voice actor, yeah, don't be an NDA violator. Don't be a client basher. Don't be some religious political whack job. 23:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's all you have to worry about. And even if you're a public figure in a way that you don't think like because I know there are people who are out there that troll. I've been trolled. If you're out there as a coach, as a demo producer, I guess you can say if you've been trolled, you've made it. 23:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, because then, so you actually matter. I matter in a way, but yes, I've been trolled and that's very upsetting, but Tom, I'm sure you've been trolled too, Maybe. 23:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know if Inspector Gadget has, but I mean Inspector Gadget. 23:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) I only got trolled in that. I'll just put it to you this way. There was one person who hated my performance so much that they took the trailer for the Inspector Gadget video game and replaced my voice with Don Adams, who was the original Inspector Gadget. So You've made it Tom, congratulations actually I'll take that as a proper trolling. There you go. 24:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I guess then, in essence, tom, I know you've evolved over the years with your views on branding. You don't know if it's as necessary, or maybe just branding in general has evolved. I still feel like, in this sea of voice actors, if somebody is going to see you online, then brand is important. 24:29 If you're not necessarily online, if maybe you're part-time and hey, there's a lot of amazing talent that we hear every single day on national spots that don't have websites that I don't even know. We don't even know who they are, right, Because they don't need to have that brand. So I tend to agree with you and I think that we have to continually be educated about what's important for your business when it comes to being recognized. Now, what about voice actors that are new to the industry? Is it important that they have a branded website, that they have a tagline? Is it important that they have a headshot? 25:07 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, I think at first it's a terrible idea. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea because what drew them to the voiceover industry may not necessarily be what keeps them in the voiceover industry. In other words, they may not be any good at what they want to do and they may turn out to be really good at something that they don't want to do. So from a branding perspective-. 25:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They don't know their brand yet. 25:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) They don't know their branding because they don't know what they can book. So if you're early in your voiceover journey, us bosses are taking a little pressure off. You Don't worry about branding yet Book gigs. 25:38 See what the voiceover industry tells you are the types of genres and subgenres in the markets that you can book Then you can build a brand around that because if that's something that's bankable, if people are willing to give you money to say this kind of voiceover work, then you can build a reputation on that because, like we said, branding, storytelling, reputation all of these things are intertwined. So just to have a basic, nondescript website with your contact information, basic information about you and downloadable demos which is the most important thing to have on a website- yes, absolutely. 26:12 Then let the branding come about you and downloadable demos, which is the most important thing to have on a website. Yes, absolutely. Then let the branding come to you and then you can and you're talking visual branding. Visual branding. 26:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I'm going to say vocal branding. I'm very much into vocal branding, depending on what genre you study with me, right. So vocally branding, that's something that you can have a good coach help you with, because they're going to help and you will discover that vocal branding in the beginning. 26:34 For whatever genre you're studying Now, that doesn't mean that you won't evolve over time right To have more vocal brands. I think you can have multiple brands that are related, but you cannot, like, if you're a young person and you sound young right, for the entirety of the time that you are younger, for a few years at least, you're going to be more of that youthful sound, probably if that's how you've been vocally branded. So I think if you're new it helps to have a good coach to help vocally brand you. But visual branding and you're right, tom, as you go you'll find out. What do you get hired for? Right, I never thought about medical and all of a sudden I started getting hired for medical and now, oh well, that makes sense now because I used to work in the medical field. So you know something I didn't know before. 27:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, what a great coach like you can help people with is what celebrities do you sound like? What sectors of the voiceover industry can you get work in? You know there's commercials in general, but then there's automotive in particular, or home and family products, or alcohol, or boots you know what I mean or cowboy boots or whatever that sort of thing. Anne can definitely help you with that. And then when you are positioning yourself, and then when Anne helps you make your demo, it can help with that vocal positional branding. So the spots that you would do on a demo with Anne would align with the celebrities that you can sound like. Not imitations, but just like reminiscent of. 27:58 You know what I mean. I'll give you an example For me right now. For the past year or so it's been Ryan Reynolds. I've been booking spots because I have a Ryan Reynolds sound. 28:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you do. 28:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) A voice actor just connected with me on LinkedIn and said do you know that you sound like Ryan Reynolds and I don't have that branding anywhere on my website. I'm seriously considering doing it because these casting notices that tend to have the Ryan Reynolds celebrity reference I'm booking. So that may be something I would need to consider. But again, that's the industry. At this point in my journey, that's the industry telling me, because Ryan Reynolds wasn't a factor when I started in the 90s. But if I was starting now and working with Anne, she's got a good enough ear to know that like, yeah, you got kind of a Ryan Reynolds sound. Maybe we should get kind of these kind of quirky, fun, cute little spots on your demo to showcase that particular sound. 28:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Well. That was a very involved branding conversation but I love it, I love it. I feel like we still could go on, and, on, and on. But, thank you, tom. So much for that. Guys, I'm going to give a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too, can network and connect like bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPdtlcom. Have an amazing week, guys, and we will see you next week. Thanks so much. 29:20 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry-rev, revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.

Anne welcomes Heidi Rew, commercial voice actor and co-founder of Atlanta VoiceOver Studio. Heidi shares her journey from radio to voiceover and offers insights on booking jobs and finding success in the industry. The BOSSES emphasize the importance of perseverance and training, highlighting their own experience of steady climbs in the industry. They also discuss the qualities of a good coach and the value of personalized instruction. They advise newcomers to discover their unique voice and niche through training and collecting feedback. The BOSSES share their thoughts on overcoming self-doubt and the importance of perseverance in the voice acting industry. They emphasize the need to uncover personal insecurities and fears in order to succeed in business The BOSSES also discuss the importance of demos, online presence, and easy accessibility for potential clients. Anne (00:01.142) Hey everyone, welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to have very special guest, Heidi Rew, joining us to the show. Hey Heidi, yay! Oh, awesome. So a little bit of information about Heidi for the bosses who are not familiar with her. She started her career on air in radio, but was introduced to voiceover by her coworker who eventually turned into her husband. Heidi Rew (00:12.922) Hey, Anne! So glad to be here. Anne (00:29.922) She is mainly a commercial voice actor and has voiced national TV commercials for Jiffy Lube, Secrets Resorts, Redfin, Kohl's, Danimals, and Baker's Chocolate, excuse me, and probably many, many more. And about eight years ago, she and her husband started the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio, a training and recording studio. Heidi, thank you so much for being with us today. It's so exciting. Heidi Rew (00:54.092) Oh, I am so excited to be here, Ann. And we already talked, Ann already talked, she was our guest on the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio podcast. And it was so good, we had to do a part two, which is the first time that's ever happened. So yes, I'm so excited to be here, Ann. Anne (01:09.166) Well, thank you so much. And I'm actually going to just turn around and ask you some of the same questions that you asked me. For those bosses who are not familiar with Atlanta VoiceOver Studio and Heidi, why don't you start off by talking a little bit about yourself and what that journey was like going from radio to VO? Heidi Rew (01:15.77) Okay. Heidi Rew (01:25.654) Yeah. Yep. I always wanted to go into radio. That was kind of my career goal. And this handsome coworker came in my studio one day and was like, hey, do you do voiceover? Because I could listen to your voice all day. And I know. He always says that's like his one and only line. But it worked. And he told me all about the voiceover industry, kind of got me going. Anne (01:44.754) What a line. I love it. I love it. Heidi Rew (01:55.554) And I really did think, oh, this will just be something that I do on the side. And then five, six years after that, things were changing at the radio station. And at that time, then Mike and I were married. And so to find on-air jobs in another city for both of you is really, really almost impossible. And so. Anne (02:13.527) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (02:20.19) things had just changed and Mike was like, why don't you just quit and just do voiceover and on camera stuff full time? And so that's what I did. And there we go. Anne (02:28.658) And there you go. Now, when we were talking before, we were discussing about agents, and it took you four years to book a job with your first Atlanta agent. Let's talk about that journey, because I'll tell you, for me, when I started, I'm gonna date myself, I literally, I was working for four years before I even thought. Heidi Rew (02:36.059) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (02:39.622) Yep. Mm-hmm. Anne (02:53.406) about an agent because back then we didn't really have like Facebook groups or there was there wasn't a lot of ways to communicate with other people in the industry, which I believe is one of the reasons why you might have started your studio as well to like see people face to face and Heidi Rew (02:57.088) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:07.075) Yeah. Heidi Rew (03:10.734) Yes, totally, and have that community. Yeah, I had a great agent here in Atlanta. And I would get auditions and everything, and just wouldn't book. And I thought, I really suck at this, obviously. And I would ask my agent, I said, you know, gosh, why? Anne (03:12.939) Yeah. Anne (03:18.091) Mm-hmm. Anne (03:22.903) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:30.026) Richard, it was Richard Hutchison management who's, he's retired at this point, but I said Richard, why haven't you dropped me at this point? You know, and he said Heidi, because you're doing good auditions. It just sometimes takes time. Just keep going, keep going. And I did. And then year five was when I started booking a lot. It's when I booked a national spot that ran three years, gave a sag health insurance for three years. Anne (03:32.215) Mm-hmm. Anne (03:41.91) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Anne (03:54.754) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:56.162) So it was just one of those things where it just took some time. And I had some other clients on the sides from self-marketing and a smaller agency that I was with in Florida. But yeah. Anne (04:03.817) Mm-hmm. Anne (04:07.862) Now do you think that it had, I mean, was there, was it possible that maybe you were needing feedback? I'm assuming four years your performance, you know, was improved, you know, and that is, takes a lot of resilience sometimes. I mean, I remember my early career as well too, and it was difficult. I mean, when you didn't get feedback or you didn't book, it was kind of like, oh my gosh, now. Heidi Rew (04:16.995) Oh yeah. Heidi Rew (04:21.658) Yeah. Heidi Rew (04:24.986) Mm-hmm. Anne (04:36.734) Now what do I do? I mean, do I even belong in this industry? I mean, did you ever run into any of those feelings? Yeah. Heidi Rew (04:39.154) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (04:42.794) Oh gosh, yeah. I mean, I would tell Mike, like, you liar. No, I'm just kidding. Like, what in the world? I don't have a good voice, obviously. But he really was always, he's always been an encourager of mine. But a big part of it was, you know, I was doing radio full time, full time. And also, you know, I was on air, so I was doing like events on the weekend. I mean, it was busy. And so I really. Anne (04:47.524) Hahaha! Mm-hmm. Anne (05:02.187) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (05:09.322) voiceover was a side thing. I didn't do the kind of training that I needed to do to get to that level. I was very lucky to even get on with Richard at the very beginning because, I mean, you know, all I had kind of was Mike's training and tutelage. And that is why I say to so many people, too, that, you know, one, you never know how long it's going to take to book, so keep going. But also, right, but also, Anne (05:11.106) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:16.514) Mm. Anne (05:24.76) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:32.142) Right? For that overnight success. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (05:36.982) you do need to train and I, you know, if I had trained more, who knows that four years could have been shortened to a much shorter time frame. Anne (05:41.559) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:45.91) Well, you know, it's so interesting because, you know, I just was looking at your website again, and your studio offers, gosh, everything. And you have a team of coaches that basically covers every genre. You know, I think anything that anybody ever would want to do in voiceover, you guys cover at your studio. So let's talk about coaching because we had a discussion about it on your podcast. What is it that you feel Heidi Rew (05:56.08) Yeah. Anne (06:17.387) key qualities or qualifications of a good coach and what you look for your own team and for yourself. Heidi Rew (06:19.407) Yeah. Heidi Rew (06:23.83) Yeah, well, you know, first of all, one of the things that we really look for is for people that have a heart to teach and that aren't just in there to make extra money or to be known that they really care about the students that they're trying to reach. And then a big part of that is we Anne (06:33.996) Mm. Heidi Rew (06:48.898) With Atlanta Voice over Studio, we have three values that we run our decisions through and really have just kind of been the compass for our business. And one of those values is grace. And Mike and I define that as meeting people where they're at. And so we always talk about that with the instructors of like, you have no idea where somebody is gonna come in, whether they walk through the door or they appear on the screen. Anne (07:03.691) I love that. Anne (07:12.106) Yeah. Heidi Rew (07:14.458) You know, you have no idea where they're at. And so our goal is to find out where they're at and how do we get them at least one step closer to their goal, if not two steps. But that's the goal. It's like really meeting people where they're at, which was huge during COVID. Like that, oh my gosh, that was so helpful to remember. So those are some of the biggest things and just being able to really personalize the... Anne (07:23.086) Mm-hmm. Anne (07:30.878) Oh my goodness, yes. Heidi Rew (07:43.01) the instruction to each person, which kind of goes with that meeting people where they're at. It's just not everybody responds to the same type of technique or you know what I mean? Like you really have to find what works for that person, you know? Anne (07:45.205) Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Anne (07:48.938) Sure. Yeah. Anne (07:54.414) True. Very true. Anne (08:00.702) Yeah, and it's very much a personal journey, I think. Because it is a creative journey, and I do feel that that. Heidi Rew (08:04.868) Yes. Anne (08:10.934) Gosh, everybody reacts to it differently. Everybody learns in a different way. And I know that just from my years of teaching in front of the class, that you do have all different types of students. And I think it's even more important to meet them where they are when you're talking about something as a creative endeavor that is so deeply personal to them. Because any, you know, any... Heidi Rew (08:20.804) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (08:28.098) Yes. Yeah. Anne (08:34.218) any frustration or any kind of like, you know, roadblock can be really devastating. And that can, you know, that can affect performance like this. And so I think it's so important that you have teachers who care that I love that, that you have, I mean, that's where I always talk about. Heidi Rew (08:41.064) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (08:45.57) Oh my gosh, yeah. Yes. Anne (08:54.238) My students with eLearning, you've got to be that teacher that has a heart that cares. And that's important when you're... It's a journey you're taking these students on. And it's a delicate journey. Yeah. Heidi Rew (08:58.364) Mm-hmm, yeah. Heidi Rew (09:03.962) Yeah. Yes. Because your voice, that is really important. And there have been some people that come in that have been told certain things about their voice or believed certain things about their voice that are not right or not correct. And to be able to show them, like, hey, you actually have power in your voice. And you thought that maybe you didn't, or you thought that it was. Anne (09:15.547) Mm-hmm. Anne (09:24.438) Mm. Anne (09:31.303) Yeah, yeah. Heidi Rew (09:33.65) You know, some of the biggest ones that we've had come through the studio is like I always Was kind of told that I was weak because of the way that I sounded Man that does that does something? Yeah That is hard. So to be able to help them discover that and how do you? How do you find that empowerment through your own voice? You know, that's That's really crucial Anne (09:42.374) Mmm. That's a hard, that's hard to take. Yeah, gosh. Mm-hmm. Anne (09:56.844) Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So then let's talk a little bit about then as they're on their journey discovering, like where, you know, thinking about where do they feel the most passion or joy or where does their voice fit in the industry? What advice can you give, let's say people just entering in this industry in order to find their niche? And I don't know if like, I think niches can be ever evolving, I don't know about you, but you know. Heidi Rew (10:15.182) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (10:23.458) Yeah. Heidi Rew (10:27.939) Oh, 100%. Yeah. Anne (10:28.994) How do they discover that? What's your best advice for that? Heidi Rew (10:32.894) So one of the things that we do that's really important, but you can do this whether you're working with a private coach or whatever, but we have one of our foundational training is called the Beginner VoiceOver Intensive, and it's a three month thing. It has like this curriculum that goes with it. So one of the weeks that we do, you go into the booth to record and you do just a bunch of different spots that are in different types of tones and specs and everything. Anne (10:57.719) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (11:00.022) And then your class and the instructor will write down what they feel like is your natural three top reads. Just you as yourself and that you can just, as you're speaking, it just comes so naturally. You don't have to push it or force it or anything. And then they also write down descriptions about your voice. So maybe it's like, you know, Anne (11:09.158) Mm. Mm-hmm. Anne (11:17.614) Sure. Heidi Rew (11:27.314) grandfather that always has a funny joke. You know what I mean? Like it's like that warmth caring but also he can be funny and you know what I mean witty. So they write down all that stuff so then that person that comes out of the booth they have all this vocabulary of some of their strengths with their voice right which is kind of just the step one of figuring out like where do I fit you know what is that uniqueness that I can bring to the table. Anne (11:30.955) Mm-hmm. Anne (11:43.571) Yeah. Anne (11:50.812) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (11:55.334) So you can do that even with like a private coach. They can help you discover that. But another thing that's really important, I think, is just be a collector of data, you know, yourself. And because it's, we forget so quickly when people give us like specific encouragement or things of like, oh, I really love, you know. Anne (12:08.289) Yeah. Anne (12:18.698) Mm. Heidi Rew (12:22.294) the way that you've got that texture in your voice. It kind of feels like a warm blanket or whatever. Anytime somebody says something about your voice, write it down. Collect that data because then you're going to have this whole data set of stuff that you're like, oh, this is me. This is who I am. This is what I can bring to the table. And then when you do that, then you can kind of figure out, okay, what is, what are the specific genres that maybe Anne (12:25.08) Mm-hmm. Anne (12:32.911) Mmm, great idea. Anne (12:42.19) Mm-hmm. Anne (12:50.379) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (12:51.627) that I would fit in the best. So, yeah. Anne (12:53.214) Yeah, that would cater to those qualities. Yeah, it's so hard to assess. It's kind of like, I think that's why self-direction is so difficult, right? I mean, you have to assess where you're at by yourself. And I think that I love the fact that you have a whole class where you have other ears involved in the process and other people helping, saying, well, this is what I hear. And it can really help you to help define where your space can be and where your niche can be. Heidi Rew (13:05.437) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (13:16.315) Mm-hmm. Anne (13:22.826) and also where you might want to grow. Because I think there are a lot of times somebody will say something about your voice that you didn't expect. Like somebody will say, oh my God, that's a great character. And I'm like, but me? I've never thought about doing character work or animation work or that kind of a thing. So I think that the process with a great coach or another set of ears that can help you. Heidi Rew (13:22.894) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (13:33.818) Mmm. Heidi Rew (13:44.409) Mm-hmm. Anne (13:46.382) to establish that can really help you to grow and then can help you to develop your ear. I think there's a whole science to developing an ear, which is it doesn't, that doesn't happen overnight. Heidi Rew (13:49.134) Yes. Heidi Rew (13:52.63) Yes. Yeah. Heidi Rew (13:58.006) No, I still feel like I'm fine tuning my ear. And as things change, you know what I mean? Like I've grown up learning that polished sound and that polished sound in commercial is just like, so many people don't want the polished sound. And it is so hard to like make sure that I'm hearing the right things, yeah. Cause I wanna default to that, so. Anne (14:01.01) Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah. Anne (14:06.951) Mm-hmm. Anne (14:13.866) Yeah, yeah. Not be perfect. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's so interesting. So outside of performance, right, what would you say are key factors for any boss out there in order to grow their business? What sorts of things outside of, of course, keeping their performance, you know, and I say coaching and training all the time, but what else is important for a successful business? Heidi Rew (14:44.71) Yeah. So personally for me, I am all about relationships. That has been one of the things that has helped me create a sustainable full-time voiceover career. It really is. Not only do I seek out relationships and I don't seek them out for like, oh, what can you give me? But I have the mentality of like, give more than you can, more than you get. Anne (14:51.531) Mmm. Anne (15:06.164) Mm-hmm. Anne (15:14.375) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (15:14.682) But I just think that the more relationships that I have and the more people that I know, the more potential opportunity is gonna come my way, because of people that they work with, people that they know, they like and they trust. And so I am really a big proponent on creating those relationships and maintaining those relationships as best as possible over the longterm. And that has been... Anne (15:24.502) Mm. Mm-hmm. Anne (15:28.415) Mm-hmm. Anne (15:38.168) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Heidi Rew (15:41.654) That has been one of the biggest things that during times where things aren't, I'm not booking as many commercials or whatever, that those clients come back. It's just like, it feels like magic. Yes. Anne (15:53.098) right, in those lulls. Because I think the biggest difference, right, in our businesses is that, you know, as opposed to it, because I worked in the corporate world, you know, I expected that paycheck and got that paycheck every other week. And now all of a sudden, we've got, you know, our own business, which, ooh, now we got to hustle. We got to go get that business. We have to nurture those relationships. And we have to sustain, which I think you said the word sustainability, which I really love, because over the years, I mean, my gosh. Our overnight success, which for me has been how many years? Like 10, something like that. I mean, it's been sticking with it. Talk to me a little bit because you've been in the industry for a long time. What is it that you say, what would you say is key to success in terms of having a career that can continually, I guess, evolve along with the times and be sustained for a long time? Heidi Rew (16:26.769) Right. Heidi Rew (16:30.811) Yeah. Heidi Rew (16:46.61) Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I want to share really quick this, I don't know if you've ever read James Clear's Atomic Habits book. It's so good. But he gives an example of bamboo. And bamboo, if you've ever seen, there's a bamboo forest here in Atlanta that's on this beautiful hike. And it's just so gorgeous. It's so tall and everything. Well, bamboo, when they first are planted, you don't see hardly anything for five years. Anne (16:55.398) I have not. Anne (17:04.96) Mm-hmm. Anne (17:15.467) Mmm. Heidi Rew (17:15.598) and then all of a sudden within six weeks, they shoot up like, I don't know how, I'm gonna say 90 feet, that's not true. You can fact check me on that if we have fact check. Anyways, it's something along those lines, very, very tall, in about six weeks. And the reason why is because they develop such a strong root system. Anne (17:23.607) That's tall. That's tall. Anne (17:34.461) Mmm Heidi Rew (17:35.314) that that's what they're doing in that five years. So you don't even see you're like, what's going on? Nothing's going on. And actually a lot is going on so that way they can stay strong for years and years. So that's part of it is, I think, you know, creating a good foundation. But I think the other part and I think this is really true and I don't I can't give anybody a certain like applicable thing to do to discover this. But the problem about. Anne (17:42.122) Wow, yeah, I love that. Heidi Rew (18:04.558) becoming a voice talent, especially if you're in another, you know, job or whatever, is that it's all on you to do every, you are the business, right? And sometimes the biggest hindrance to growth is ourselves and things that we find ourselves doing, you know. For me, I, one, I want people to like me. I want to do a really good job. Like I don't ever want to not do a good job, obviously. Anne (18:14.058) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Anne (18:21.07) Mm-hmm. Anne (18:32.973) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (18:34.886) And I can get really caught up on my performance and it just makes me want to go I'm done. This is too much I want to quit well that has nothing to do with my business. It has nothing to do with numbers It has nothing to do with data. It's all on me my own Insecurities my own you know fears about things so I think that The more that I'm able to uncover things about myself like little hiccups that I put my own way Anne (18:45.27) Mmm. Heidi Rew (19:01.99) actually the better my business is, you know, and it's just it's easier to not have to face those. I think when you are in another business where there's a lot of other people coming to your aid, you know, and being able to do things and, you know, make up for your weaknesses and everything. Anne (19:12.147) Oh yeah, absolutely. Anne (19:20.01) You know, it's such a thing when we talk about, you know, having moments of doubt and wanting to give up and wanting to quit. I mean, you know, self-sabotage. I mean, we talk about that quite a bit. I mean, what can you, what's your best advice? What can you say to those bosses out there that are just, they're like frustrated. I, you know, I'm not booking any work. I can't continue to, you know, fund. Heidi Rew (19:32.486) Yeah. Anne (19:47.334) this career if I'm not making any money at it. Because that just happens quite a bit. I hear that a lot from talent. Heidi Rew (19:54.83) Yeah, of course, of course. I heard there's a wonderful psychologist, Angela Duckworth. She's written books and everything. And she said something that I will never forget. And this one thing will help so much. She said, don't quit on a bad day. If you're having a bad day and you want to quit, do not quit on that day. Now, if you have a great day and you just booked a great thing and you still want to quit, OK. Anne (20:11.906) Mmm. Heidi Rew (20:24.39) Then quit, because you know that it is, it's not the challenges that are coming your way, but it's just the actual job itself. But if it's those challenges and those hard days, push through, because I mean, there are, I still have days like that, and I'm how long into my career? Like, it's crazy. And you think, and I think. Anne (20:41.578) Right? Isn't that true? Like, and we've been in this forever, right? And we still have days. Heidi Rew (20:49.314) If people looked at it, you're like, but you're making a great full-time income from this job. And there are still days that I want to quit. And I just think, OK, you know what? I don't quit on a bad day. And then also, sometimes I do quit just for the day. You know, I'm like, Anne (20:54.442) Mm-hmm. Anne (21:02.879) I like that. Don't quit on a bad day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I like that. I'm quitting for the day. Heidi Rew (21:10.046) I am, I'm either burnt out or I've got just too much. I need to quit for today. I need to go on a walk. I need to do something else for my mental health. And then tomorrow, jump back in. Anne (21:12.607) Mm-hmm. Anne (21:23.102) Yeah, I like that. So what are some important tools that you would recommend for voice actors in order to further their career? Heidi Rew (21:34.822) So I will say that I have had a CRM since I started, but let me tell you, this CRM is, I mean, it's Google Sheets. Like that was my CRM for years. And I honestly, and yeah, and same, I'm literally right before we got on here, I've been trying. Anne (21:42.145) Mmm. Anne (21:49.334) Yeah, yeah, yeah. My name is Google, too. That was my CRM. It actually still is. OK. Ha, ha. Heidi Rew (22:01.382) to migrate all of my clients over to Voice Over View. Because listen, my system works for me. I get it. The only problem is a search function. I don't like that because I love to be able to go, I don't have a great memory. And so I mean, I just had a session where I booked a job. And the guy was like, hey, Heidi, we worked together years ago on this. And I'm like, ugh. Anne (22:05.011) Uh huh, uh huh. Anne (22:08.992) Yes. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (22:28.654) So I'm typing in word war, you know what I mean? Like who did I, what was this? And I found it, it was fine, and I have all my notes there, but I really do need to be able to quickly search things. Because two, if you've been in this business, you probably are the same way for a long time. The people that are at one company that you worked with years ago, they may be at a completely different company. And so you need to be able to reference things and search things. Anne (22:29.559) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh gosh, yeah. Anne (22:40.162) quickly get to it. Mm-hmm. Anne (22:50.122) Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (22:56.618) So that CRM says no matter what you do, have a way to track your clients. Have a way to track your clients. And don't get frustrated if it's not perfect or whatever, but just start doing it. Start putting those notes in there. Because again, relationships, that's so big. And if you get to the point where you're booking a ton, it's really hard to keep track. I know it sounds so weird, but it's just like, I can't. Anne (23:03.263) Yeah, that's yeah. Anne (23:22.592) Yeah. Heidi Rew (23:23.138) Remember this the guy that I was talking to about his kids softball game that weekend that I would love to mention to him You know in the follow-up email And so you really so that's that would be my first tool for sure and then the second tool to be honest with you and I would say maybe you can't do this at the very beginning of your career, but a bookkeeper Anne (23:29.558) Mm-hmm. Anne (23:49.338) Oh gosh, I'm right there with you. Right there with you. I say over and over again, my accountant is the best investment I ever made in my business. Yep. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (23:53.422) I mean, and I- Heidi Rew (23:59.126) 100% I agree. I agree. I mean, I, when I was learning QuickBooks, I mean, I remember crying at the table in front of my CPA and accountant, like I was like, I just, I didn't make, make it make sense, you know. It was so, so hard. And so it is, oh my gosh. Anne (24:08.862) Oh god, I know. Anne (24:19.486) And it's tedious too. It's not, if it doesn't bring you joy, outsource it. That's what I say. Ha ha. Heidi Rew (24:25.63) And do you like reconciling? Because I hate it. I hate it and it is the easiest thing. It's like, come on. Anne (24:28.174) No, I hate it. I hate it with a passion, but my accountant loves it. I mean, that's why they're an accountant for a career. They love numbers, for the most part. Yeah, I can't stand it. Yeah. Heidi Rew (24:35.522) Exactly. Oh my gosh. I hate it. I would just dread it. I would put it off and then all of a sudden at the end of the year I have to reconcile like months and I'm like okay. Anne (24:45.218) And I've had my accountant, I want to say, for a good eight years or so. She knows me so well. She knows my business so well, which is really wonderful. And she's not anywhere near me. So we use QuickBooks online. And literally, the two of us can meet once a week or every other week. Heidi Rew (24:49.654) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (24:57.922) Yeah. Anne (25:02.13) to kind of go over things and she can generate numbers for me. She does my taxes. I mean my taxes I don't even have to prep anything. That's the cool thing is that you know before it was like Oh my god tax season was just you know the end of the year would come and I'd be like Oh god, I've got to get everything together And I've got to somehow figure out how to do and QuickBooks keeps updating and you know It's like trying to make things simpler, but I don't like it and so it's just like I don't want to spend time Yes Heidi Rew (25:09.186) Right. Heidi Rew (25:17.529) Yeah. Heidi Rew (25:25.654) Yeah. So what we're saying is don't quit on a bad day or on tax day because it can get better. Anne (25:32.062) Yes, or on tax day. I can't tell you though how wonderful it was to have taxes done, you know, so. Quickly, I mean, literally, I just said, hey, it's April. Are we all set? She goes, yeah, I'll have your numbers tomorrow. Literally, it was like, oh, god, I didn't have to really organize anything. Every time I would get something in the mail, my forms, I would just forward them to her. She had it, and it was just, boom, she was able to do it. And it was wonderful. So those are some good business tools, a CRM and an accountant. Anything else? What about, let's talk about, Heidi Rew (25:40.728) Yeah. Heidi Rew (25:51.492) Yeah. Heidi Rew (26:02.906) Yes. Yeah. Anne (26:10.364) What about demos? I mean, I consider a demo a portfolio of your product, and your product is your voice. Let's talk about demos. How important are they these days? There's been some discussion out there about how important really is the demo. I mean, isn't the audition more important? What do you think? Heidi Rew (26:11.252) Yeah. Heidi Rew (26:16.182) Yes. Yeah. Let's talk about. Heidi Rew (26:22.734) Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think that the demo is still important for a lot of different reasons. I mean, one, if you do want to get on with an agent, you need a good demo. And it needs to be really, really good. Anne (26:38.518) Yeah, kinda need a demo. Because you can't audition at every second of the day. And your demo is kind of there as the representative voice of you when you're not available to audition at the very second that a client might want to hear your voice. Heidi Rew (26:45.187) right. Heidi Rew (26:50.342) Right. Yeah. Plus, I think that being able to be ready for a demo, and I'm speaking more, I will say I'm not an expert on a lot of the demos, but commercial demo, you know, we do at Atlanta VoiceOver Studio. We let everybody else do all the other stuff. But also, that's kind of your way of going, I'm ready to do this. Like, as a talent, I feel like when Anne (27:06.647) Mm-hmm. Anne (27:16.63) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (27:21.426) to do a commercial demo, then it also shows to you, like you need to be able to, it's kind of like just showing your work, like I'm ready, look, and here's what I can do, yeah. You know, we, so we actually, we used to have like a long wait list for our demos, and now we hardly, we don't have a wait list, and part of it is because we put all these like barriers for people. Anne (27:29.598) Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Here's my work, yeah. Anne (27:40.279) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (27:46.394) before they did their demo. So I think people are scared. They're like, oh gosh, there's a lot of work to get to that. But we're like, well, you know what? That's fine. We're not out to be a demo factory. Anne (27:48.125) Mmm. Anne (27:55.606) Well, I kind of really respect that because, you know what I mean? It's one of those things where nobody will ever come and say, well, you guys are just a demo mill. And that there are prerequisites. I mean, I always put a big, huge disclaimer saying, I'm not gonna produce a demo if you're not ready because you need to be able to replicate that sound. I mean, and so I do feel demos are an important tool. Heidi Rew (28:04.974) No. Heidi Rew (28:09.185) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (28:14.455) Right. Heidi Rew (28:19.042) Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yep. Heidi Rew (28:25.488) Yes. Anne (28:25.99) for a business. What else? What about, I mean, I feel like every voice actor needs to have an online presence. Website slash social media slash... Heidi Rew (28:32.994) I 100% agree with that. Yes, you need to have a website. So with Atlanta Voice Over Studio, we have these industry pro workouts where we'll bring in agents or creative directors or casting directors or whatever. I've had several people that have been our industry pro that have said, you know what? We wanted to book somebody. Anne (28:45.329) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (28:55.586) We couldn't find them. Or they're like, I love this voice, and then we couldn't find them. They had no website. We couldn't search for them. You need to be searchable these days. You need to be searchable. Anne (28:57.402) Ah, interesting. Mm-hmm, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's a wonderful, yeah, I love that you brought that up because I mean, I host workouts as well with agents and casting directors and yeah, an online presence, a website, and a way to get to your demo or a sample that can be downloaded and passed around. Heidi Rew (29:20.23) Yes. Yeah. Anne (29:23.73) I think I can't tell you the amount of times I've gone to a website and you can't download their demo or there's not an easy way to get in touch with them. Like where's the contact information or there's a form somebody has to fill out. And I'm like I just really give me an email address or a phone number or you know so that I can I can get in touch quickly because you don't want to make it too hard for somebody to get in touch with you and everything. But I'm afraid to maybe post my phone number to for spam. I'm like really? Like I mean you're a business. You're a business. Heidi Rew (29:32.203) Yes. Heidi Rew (29:38.312) I know, yeah. Heidi Rew (29:44.343) Right. Heidi Rew (29:50.706) I have my number, phone number up there, I know. I agree, I agree. Yeah. Anne (29:54.826) a phone number or some way to get in touch with you. I mean, I will say that I literally, this is on a personal note, there have been some vendors, some very large vendors that have foregone phone support and gone completely digital where they'll have like a chat bot on their website, which I think is fine. But when you've got those problems or those questions, or you need to contact them for, you know, something that isn't covered by their chat bot, Heidi Rew (30:09.873) Hmm. Heidi Rew (30:17.967) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (30:23.247) Yeah. Anne (30:24.31) Being able to contact somebody either in a Zoom, a video meeting or a phone call is really, really helpful. And a lot of companies I know to save money have foregone that tech support or that phone support. And I will say right now, I don't know if that's gonna last very long because there are always those conditions where people need to get in touch with you, like quickly. Heidi Rew (30:31.776) Yeah. Heidi Rew (30:39.067) Hmm. Heidi Rew (30:49.154) Yeah. And this is for vendors. No voice talent have done it, right? Or. Anne (30:52.96) Yeah. Well, I always, I mean, I make sure that people can get in touch with me in any which way. I'm like, here's my email, here's a phone number, here's a Zoom link, here's a Source Connect link, here's an IPDTL link. Go ahead, get in touch with me. And I deal with spam. Yeah, I deal with spam, you know, and it's just, it's just it. I mean, there's lots of spam protection filters in place. So for me, I would rather have somebody be able to get in touch with me because gosh, they might want to hire me. But. Heidi Rew (30:58.926) Right. Yeah. I agree. Heidi Rew (31:08.546) I know. I even put it on my social accounts too. Heidi Rew (31:14.358) Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. Heidi Rew (31:20.218) Yeah, of course. Do you think that it matters what type of genre you're into? Because I know commercials, I mean, they move so fast. I lost a job just the other weekend because I couldn't do it. I literally had Lasik surgery, so I couldn't get it done. But they needed it right then and there. And I couldn't do it. But I couldn't do it. Anne (31:30.391) They do. Oh, all the time, because you can't respond in time. Mm-hmm. Anne (31:40.698) Yeah, yeah. Anne (31:45.854) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, I know if I can't contact somebody, if they don't get back to me right away, I'm like, well, fine, I guess you don't want the work. I mean, sure, you don't want my business, that's fine. I'll just go find somebody that does. So, gosh, so what's next for you and the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio? What's in your future? Heidi Rew (31:47.822) So that's another reason why I'm like my phone numbers everywhere and Heidi Rew (32:01.102) Yeah. Yep. Heidi Rew (32:07.954) Gosh, honestly, some potentially big changes. But not, yeah, I don't even know if it's, so the place that we rent, the lease is up in October. And our original plan was to buy something. There's just not a lot available in Atlanta right now that's the size that we need. And Anne (32:15.905) Ooh, sounds exciting. Anne (32:24.322) Mm-hmm. Anne (32:34.064) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (32:36.534) and stuff so we'll probably move spaces. So that's a big thing, that'll be a move in October. And yeah, so I don't know, we're gonna have to change some things. To be honest with you, the studio has been wonderful, it's grown so much. I mean, we're about to celebrate eight years this summer, which is crazy. Anne (32:42.117) Ooh, that's a big thing. Anne (32:56.622) Mm-hmm. Wow, that's fantastic. Heidi Rew (33:02.198) But it's been a lot on Mike and I. So it may even be changes of like we fine tune things or we shrink some of the things that we offer, to be honest with you, because it's a lot of work on our part. And we try and take the weekends off, but you know, we don't take a paycheck either from the studio. And so that's been like, ugh. Yeah, I know you do. I know. Anne (33:04.579) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:09.403) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:14.034) Yeah. Do you have a day off? Anne (33:19.314) Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you what is funny. I don't have a studio and I work six and a half days a week. So, and I really try not to because you're right. I think for my own creative mindset and health, it's important to have that refresh time. So. Heidi Rew (33:32.964) Yeah. I know. Well, and let me ask you this too, because this is something that I think we've experienced is like we, Mike and I love to give to people. And that's been the thing with Atlanta VoiceOver Studio, but if you keep giving and giving and giving, it's really easy to get burned out. And you're just like, I... Anne (33:43.8) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:54.95) Yeah, it is. It is. Heidi Rew (33:57.03) wasn't able to fill up and we recognize that too with like it like COVID was really hard going through all of that and then coming out of it and yeah I you know it yeah. Anne (34:05.281) Yeah. It is hard, it is hard. And I know I did that with Vio Peeps for a long, long time. I mean, you give, you give, you give. Vio Boss, this podcast is one of those, I wanted to give back. And if you're not careful, it will burn you out. It is one of those things. And I thought, well, maybe I'll give up the Vio Peeps and it'll just be Vio Boss. And I couldn't do that, because I don't know, I liked my bird, I liked my little Peeps bird. And I love my Vio Boss. And I, so. Heidi Rew (34:17.722) Hmm. Heidi Rew (34:22.331) Yeah. Heidi Rew (34:30.307) I know. Well, and we like to give. Yeah, it's not, yeah, it's not gonna stop, but it is a tricky thing to try and find that balance of like, how do I fill back up myself so I can give to other people, so. Anne (34:39.322) Yeah, it is. It's yes to navigate. Yes. Well, absolutely. Well, you guys have just been amazing and you're just an icon in Atlanta there. And it was so wonderful to actually get the opportunity to have you on the show because you guys are bosses and you are a boss. So, yeah, thank you so much. And we really appreciate you sharing your nuggets of wisdom. Heidi Rew (34:51.402) Uh... Heidi Rew (34:59.05) I know. Oh. Anne (35:17.406) when you have self doubts. Because that really means a lot to people out there that think, gosh, she must have it all, because she's been doing it forever. And it really helps to know that we're not alone out there. And so I appreciate your transparency. So, yes. Heidi Rew (35:19.026) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (35:25.188) Mm-mm. No. Heidi Rew (35:29.476) Yeah. Heidi Rew (35:33.146) Yeah, thank you so much for having me on, and thank you, VO Bosses, for letting me be with you in this moment. Anne (35:39.314) Yay, yay, awesome. All right guys, a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like Heidi and I. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.

The BOSSES talk about practice this week! Through personal anecdotes and expert advice, they reveal that practice isn't just about refining technique—it's a journey to discover new habits that can benefit your career. The BOSSES talk about why many voiceover students skip practice sessions and how accountability partners and workout groups can be game-changers in your pursuit of vocal excellence. The BOSSES discuss the risks of practicing without professional oversight, and how it can lead to bad habits that are tough to break. They shine a spotlight on the undeniable advantages of participating in structured groups like Audition Demolition and VO Peeps, which offer both expert feedback and the kind of networking opportunities that can kickstart a career. We equate voice acting to mastering a musical instrument, asserting that progress requires commitment to practice beyond the four walls of coaching sessions. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses. Anne Ganguzza, you know your journey and voiceover is not just about landing gigs. It's about growing both personally and professionally. At Anne Ganguzza voice productions, I focus on coaching and demo production that nurtures your voice and your confidence. Let's grow together. Visit Anne Ganguzza.com to find out more. 00:33 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Ganguza. 00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau, hey. 00:58 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie, it's great to see you, as always. How are you Wonderful, ready to talk and chat it up? 01:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome, awesome. 01:06 - Lau Lapides (Host) So, Lau. 01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) As you know, I am a coach, and as well as you, and it seems like every week I have a few students that they always want to do live reads with me during our sessions, which I think is wonderful. But, as a coach and a former educator, I always assign homework, because I want people to get the most out of their sessions. 01:25 So I feel like it's very important that they have different scripts that they can read, they can record, they can practice getting used to different styles, and I want to make sure that in between sessions they are doing that on some sort of a daily basis. I think that's super important for their growth and development. It amazes me Lau how many times I will have students say well, I got really busy and I get it. Like life happens, there's families, there's things that happen and you can't always practice, but sometimes there are students who just never seem to take the time to really work in between sessions. I thought we should have a discussion about that. 02:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point. I used to think, and my team used to think and oftentimes mistake, when that happened, and it happened quite frequently with us as well that they didn't care, they weren't engaged, they weren't serious, they were lazy, all of those things. Sometimes, it is true I don't know if that's it or they procrastinate, procrastination was very, very big. 02:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a whole other episode. 02:27 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's a whole other episode, but I mean, I have found that the learning process of how you cement technique and how you utilize your tools and how you really discover organically who you are as a performer is through the practice session and there's different methodologies that you've got to look at to make it successful for yourself. And, of course, one which is very hot today the accountability of having at least one other person, one partner, out there that's going to meet you, that's going to be with you, live real time and work you through. It has typically been very successful for people that their schedules match. Sure, they're well matched together, they enjoy being together, it becomes a professional friendship for them and it can work. 03:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, now you're talking about accountability like an accountability group, right, that can just say all right. So what did you do this week to further your business? So I want to make sure that we're talking not just accountability in terms of hey, what did you do this week to secure more leads, to get more? 03:32 - Intro (Announcement) work. 03:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're talking accountability for, let's say, if you want to get better at the craft and I think there's lots of things that you can do to help yourself get better at the craft- and now it's hard to have an ear when you haven't developed an ear yet, and so sometimes I'll give homework and people will get very upset if they're like, yeah, but I did the homework, but now that you've told me these things, you shouldn't listen to that homework anymore. But, honestly, the homework that I gave or the scripts that I give, no matter what performance level you're at, right, there's so many good reasons to do the homework. 04:09 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, no question about it. 04:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because even if you don't have an ear yet, there's many advantages of you experiencing and attempting to record by yourself and get things submitted on time. Gosh, there's just so many things right, it's like auditioning techniques. 04:28 There's editing techniques you're getting better at, you're experiencing different styles. 04:32 I mean you could be within a genre and have multiple different style scripts come your way that you have to analyze and figure out. 04:40 And so, for me, if you don't have a discipline of doing something voiceover every single day performance-wise right, I think you're kind of missing the boat. And I'm not going to say that you're lazy if you don't do it, but I am going to say that having something that you do every single day is important because it helps you learn, as you said, who you are. As you said who you are, it helps you learn like, oh, if I record a script in the morning, I realize, oh, I have a lower voice in the morning, or I have more energy in the morning, or versus recording after a long day at work, right, oh, I sounded a little bit strained in that performance. So it helps to know who you are as a performer by having those practice, having the exercises, having the homework, whatever you want to call it. And also, yeah, I think having an accountability buddy is very helpful. And also, la, let's talk about workout groups. 05:33 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, absolutely. And I'll tell you, you know, before this idea of accountability, buddies came in, which really came from other industries, completely like the gym. Working out at a gym, you'd have an accountability partner at a gym. You know, way before I knew about it for voiceover, I always learned it as an actor In conservatory level. You would always be in rehearsal. We didn't call it practice sessions, we called it rehearsal. You were always rehearsing your roles, always. And could you rehearse alone, rehearsing your roles always. And could you rehearse alone? Of course, and you have to rehearse alone at times, but when you can be with another person, that level of energy and stimulation and fun factor I think helps to cement a discipline of saying I got to come to it every day. It's like I have a class that I'm going to yes. 06:23 I have to get to that. I have to do that. I'm being held to that. So then, when you go to your workout classes, you have a lot to bring to the table because guess what, you're not just relying on the workout class to give you everything You've already been working out on your own right. And then you're bringing that in for your director or your coach or your facilitator and saying here are things I've been working on, here are things I've been coaching and practicing and rehearsing every day. Now let me work through it with a live group in the room. 06:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I think that that gives you yet another level of practice that can really help you develop auditioning skills, and it can, again, it makes you accountable. 07:06 You're like, well, I don't want to be a complete fool, I should probably right, I should probably work on my technique or my performance, so that when I get in front of the group, right, I'm not going to necessarily seem like I don't know what I'm doing. And so I do want to say one word of caution when working out with peer groups right, peer groups without necessarily someone that can really guide along the peer group that maybe have more experience might be just floundering, shall I say, or misguiding. If that's the case, if you have a bunch of new people in a workout group and you're all directing one another, sometimes you can get direction that may not be helpful because everybody is new. So at least if you're working out with a group of people, if you can try to have a leader of that group that can oversee or that has some experience, some casting experience, some coaching experience that can help guide, if there is feedback that may or may not be helpful to you for your performance. 08:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) I couldn't say that any better, annie. I'm not a fan of pair workout groups and the reason is because it's not that you can't have professional friends and you can't help one another, you can. But I get concerned about and I'll bring it back to the gym again, because it's an easy analogy that if I meet up with two or three or four people and we're all lifting the 50-pound weight or whatever and I'm just not doing it properly and they're not aware of that, they're not catching that, they might even be saying great job, lau. Oh my God, look at your biceps. And meanwhile I'm straining my back, I'm hurting my lower back. I'm hoping that the facilitator or the coach or the trainer has that knowledge base to say hey, hey, hey, no, no, no, no, we don't do it that way. 08:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Here's your proper technique, here's your proper form. 08:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's my biggest concern. And the other concern I have about a peer workout group as well is be careful, like, have your gossip antennas up. We shouldn't be going into a practice rehearsal, performance group to talk about the business or gossip about other people or whatever. And oftentimes it can go down that road of like oh, who did you audition for today? Oh, I got that script. Oh, what do you think of her? How come she sent that out? And then all of a sudden all sorts of things are said in that room which are not appropriate, makes people feel really uncomfortable and is completely off topic from what you came in to do in the first place, which was practice. 09:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, and we're talking again bosses. We're talking performance and techniques, not necessarily business meetings, right, we're business accountability and in that place I think you can talk about the business, the industry as it exists. And I agree with you. I think gossip we have to be very careful about gossip, just because I don't think gossip serves any useful purpose really, and it is one of those things that gets to think of let's gossip around the water cooler. It happens. 10:00 I mean, we do it, we do it, but I think that business accountability groups or performance groups should probably steer clear of that, if it's possible. I don't think it's really constructive in a lot of ways. And in regards to workout groups, I mean I can't sit here on the VO Boss podcast and not say we have an audition, demolition, which is a really wonderful group where you can work out, and we have a simulated audition and you can get feedback from coaches, lau and myself and also work up your live performance skills as well. As I have the VO Peeps, which has a workout group that happens once a month. That is part of the group and you've got TIC right. 10:39 - Lau Lapides (Host) Then you have workouts that happen for your group, lau, yeah, we got weekly workouts happening and I wanted to say about Audition Demolition, when we came up with that, Annie, like I don't even think we realized really the impact that that kind of a live directed session has. And I'll be honest, I mean you can edit this out later. It's educational, it's developmental, it's social. But let me be honest, I have pulled a few of those people for my roster that were amazing people that came in that I said, oh my goodness, they need an agent or they need representation, like ASAP. So whenever you go into a professional work experience like this, you're in a room, you're auditioning, You're actually auditioning. It's the real deal. It's not a mock audition, it's not a mimic audition, it's a real Well, even though we say it is, but it is real. 11:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not a mock audition, it's not a mimic audition, it's a real. Well, even though we say it is, but it is real, it's real. 11:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie could be casting something or have a friend that's producing something and she may be thinking about you because she just saw you in the room. So I'm just saying come in and really experience the live directed session and observe Also observe what's happening with others with your colleagues. It absolutely. And observe also observe what's happening with others with your colleagues. It's fabulous. 11:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And with your weekly workouts as well as mine. I have guest directors that come in on a regular basis and I cannot tell you the amount of times where I've had a casting director come in or a talent agent and I can never promise right. As a matter of fact, I even have to have a disclaimer saying that this does not guarantee you representation at all. However, there have been a number of peeps that have come into my workout groups and performed well and they have been signed with an agent or they have struck up a relationship with a casting director and then gotten hired. So I think that these are the things that I think are very beneficial for bosses out there in really growing in the performance aspect of your career, and it's so, so important because I am a business owner, I am a coach. If you say to me, I want to do live reads every time we meet, of course I can do live reads, but I also want you to be working on them in between sessions, because otherwise it's going to take you a really long time to get to the point where you're going to be ready to, let's say, record a demo or ready to really get out there and do work. It's kind of like I used to take piano lessons back in the day and if I didn't practice in between my lessons, boy did my teacher know it, because she would give me music to practice during the week. And so when I would meet with her the following week, if I didn't practice, it guess what? It was very painfully obvious, and she could take my money week after week. And if I didn't practice, well, my mom would be angry, because you know she's like why am I spending all that money on these sessions? And if you think about it, really, bosses, you're spending money and you should be getting the most out of your sessions that you can. So, in addition to the I would say, workout groups that are led with coaches or people that are experienced, that can really help move you forward, also yourself in the studio, working on these scripts and even fumbling, which is fine. That's what they're there for. I mean, that's why I give homework. 13:57 And then struggling through the editing, and people always say, well, do you really need me to edit it? And I said I want you to edit it, like it's an audition for me, right? So then I'm going to play it back for you and then we're going to talk about it and I'm going to redirect you. And the reason I do that is not because I want to just give you busy work. It's not busy work, it is giving you so much more. 14:18 Like this is what's going to happen when you get a job right You're going to have to record in your studio, you're going to have to self-direct, you're going to have to edit that audio and you're going to have to present it. Or, if you're doing an audition right and you're going to have to put it in a form that someone can actually listen to, you're going to have to understand your editing skills. You're going to have to in certain cases in e-learning and corporate, you have to remove breaths or you have to really de-amplify your breaths and you have to do all those things. And I'm like, look, the point of me giving you something on a day-to-day basis to do is not to stress you out. 14:51 It is to help you get the most out of our sessions together, and I think that it's important that you have a discipline. If you can spend 20 minutes a day, if you can spend an hour a day, if you can spend more than that, that's wonderful. But take time set aside and make a discipline and sometimes I say mix up the times, like if you can do it in the morning before you, if you have another job that you go to do it in the morning before you go to the job, and then maybe, if you can do it during the lunch hour, maybe try it when you come home. And then you get to know yourself, know your performance level, know, oh, I sound good in the morning, I have a lot of energy, or I sound horrible after a day's work, when it's been horrible. 15:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well said. Couldn't have said it any better. I mean, that's really what it is, and when you show up to, whatever you show up to, don't underestimate it. What I mean by that is whether it's a partner of yours, whether it's a workout group, whether it's in front of a casting director, whether it's audition demolition. Put yourself together as if you are a professional in a professional environment, and I don't care if people are showing up in pajamas and they're coming from bed. Don't do it. 15:58 Don't make the mistake to do that, because not only will your psychology not be up to par with the level at which you need to be sustaining and working at, but you could literally lose connections, you could lose jobs, you could lose potential opportunities, because I don't know about you, annie, but I see the weirdest things and tick Like all of a sudden I see a bed and I'm like why am I looking at an unmade bed and I have to take out the video. Like I have to literally watch out and take out the video. I see the weirdest things and I'm like why would you show up in bed? Why would you show up just coming out of the shower? Why would you show up in these ways? These are meetings, professional meetings, and I think that the casualness of being at home has trained people into thinking well, I'm on Zoom, it's just I'm here. No, you're still in a professional meeting environment where people are thinking about the work you're doing. They're observing you. 16:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it is about more than just your voice. I mean, it is about the professionalism and professional demeanor and how you act, what you look like. It's all part of the package. And that's that whole discussion. Like, do we even need demos anymore? Of course we do. Do we need performance coaching? Of course we do. I mean, in reality, I mean this is what makes us who we are. It helps us develop and move forward in our businesses. 17:18 And again, I cannot stress enough that if you're not dedicating a certain amount of time on a day-to-day basis to get better at this craft, then I'm not quite sure what you're doing. And that's fine if maybe it's just a hobby for you, Maybe it's just something you're trying out to see, if you enjoy it. And a lot of times there are people who are like oh gosh, I didn't realize it was going to be work, I thought I was just talking behind the mic and a lot of times, right again, you don't know what you don't know. And so if you think it's easier than it is, that's another reason why I give the homework that I give so that people can see that it really isn't and so that you can get the feedback, you can get the evaluation and I can say you know what it sounds like. You need to improve on your studio a little bit. I'm hearing a little bit of noise, or, hey, I'm hearing some mouth clicks, or I'm hearing whatever that is, or your performance sounds like it's not. I don't believe it, it's not authentic, and so those are the things that your practicing is going to help you. 18:16 And again, at some point, it's like you practice and you don't hear yourself. You don't hear yourself and then you get feedback and then you come back, you practice some more and then you get some more feedback, which is why I think having that coaching or having that professional that can give you feedback is so incredibly critical to improve in your career. I mean, can you do it all on your own by watching videos? I think that can be a supplement if you have a good group the VO Peeps we have videos that you can watch that were people that have worked out before with guest directors who are amazing in their field. I mean Lau, you've been on it a couple of times with guest directors who are amazing in their field. I mean Lau, you've been on it a couple of times. And Audition, Demolition gosh guys, we have the Audition Demolitions on the VO Boss YouTube channel. You can go and watch them now and learn from those. So, yeah, I think that those types of workouts, those types of group practices, are something that can be very beneficial for you. 19:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. I couldn't have said it any better. You're taking the words out of my head. I would say this, though, too I think you and I take for granted how much energy and stamina and willfulness we have in going from session to session, hour to hour, moment to moment, through a very, very long day, because we've been trained that way, we're used to that, we expect that to some degree, we enjoy that, we love that. Well, I have found like, when I run classes and as it goes after the first hour into 90 minutes, I start watching the group to see is their energy going, is their stamina going? By two hours, people are starting to pop up. Yes, yes, I am so shocked at that Listen. 19:56 Mama lau knows, mama lau, mama lawu knows that they're lying when they say, oh, I got an appointment, I have to go. 20:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, they're getting tired. Yeah, they leave after two hours. And you know, that's so interesting that you say that, because it used to be years ago I would have three-hour workouts and if it were like a guest director, that was like top in their field. People would stay until they left. I mean, it was just like they couldn't get enough of it. And lately, lau, I have had sessions where my guest director goes a little bit past two hours and people are like I got to go, I got to go, I'm off, right, and I find that a little bit disturbing. 20:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, therein lies the background and the history of that talent, and where has their training come from? Where has their experience come from? I'll use an example, because a lot of voiceover talent are also on-camera actors as well. Many, many, many. If they're on a film set, they know they have to have patience for 7, 8, 11, 14 hours. They're not just going to be released because they get tired. They're going to have to stick that through and figure out what makes them stay with it throughout that time frame. I mean same with, like, if you do theater, many voiceover talent come from a theater background. Well, that's a big rehearsal process. You could go in for three, four, five hours at a time to rehearse a show. So those folks that come in, I find those folks that come in already have a built-in understanding of time and energy and stamina. 21:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean stamina, stamina. I'm just going to say there is something to be said for stamina and especially because, let's say, I mean I work a lot in long-format narration, right, you need stamina to be able to be present in that script, to execute that 45-module e-learning right. And audiobook narrators, I find, have good stamina, but there's also material that may be completely interesting to them, right. Whenever it's story-driven, right, I feel like, well, at least there's some story in there, and sometimes there may not be stories within the stories, but you have to develop a vocal muscle. You really do. 22:08 And it's kind of like me when I gosh back in the day when I was teaching, and I would be teaching class after class after class after class, your voice had to get used to talking. That much. I mean I had to build up stamina. You go to the gym, right, I got to build muscle. You have to build vocal muscle and you have to build not only vocal muscle but mental muscle. 22:26 That really helps you to stick it out, to be present, to be that actor for the amount of time that you need. I mean, if there's breaks in between, right, and you're watching somebody else go in a group session, right, and all of a sudden it's like but I'm on the East Coast, right. I get people that say that I'm on the East Coast and I got to go to bed. Okay, I get that, but still, there's stamina. Right, there is a muscle that you need to build up If you really want to see yourself succeed, and we might have people that argue with us and say is it that hard? Yeah, I mean, I feel like it can be if you want to be good at this, right. 22:59 - Lau Lapides (Host) But wouldn't you say also, though, annie, that there's this whether it's an addiction factor or a dopamine kick or whatever it is, I find so many of us that come from these backgrounds and work through a long day, work through a long shift, love it. We just can't get enough of it. There's an insatiable need to keep doing it. So if you're practicing, for instance, you shouldn't keep practicing at five minutes or 10 minutes for a year, two years, three years. You should be building that time frame and that stamina and the passion for why you're staying longer with it. I just love what we do. I love what I do. I enjoy what I do. I want more of it. I want to do more of it. You know what I mean. 23:42 If I teach a live class and I teach a live class in a studio, which is more rare nowadays they're typically six to eight hours in length, and the kids that sit in the class, that are like in the 20s or in the 30s. They will start to fade about halfway through. I'll see them kind of like fade, and I'll be like you know what? You guys, I'm not used to taking as many breaks, but you tell me when you need a break. I don't want to lose you Just tell me when you need a break. 24:07 But those kinds of things in your training is so important because then when you go practice on your own, if you've done six hours of training or eight hours of training in a row, to do 15 minutes or 30 minutes is no longer a big deal for you. It's all relative right in a lot of ways. 24:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. So Law, what are your best tips for developing that stamina muscle that you would say voice actors can do to help their performance? 24:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, perhaps this is redundant. You need to do it and you should do it a lot, and so, like, let's say you're joining a class or a group or a workout or whatever it is. You need to, like, top yourself, keep challenging yourself, keep topping yourself. One group may be one hour. That's going to help me practice. That's all I need for now. One hour is perfect. But then I want to also join a group that may go two hours in length, because I want to be able to see. 25:04 This is one of the things, annie, that graduate school taught me. I didn't realize at the time, but later I realized they taught you how to teach your craft, direct your craft, produce your craft. Why? Because you weren't always performing, you were observing all the people in the room. Yeah, you were made to give feedback to every single person in the room, until you were blue in the face and said I don't know what to say anymore. They said you better figure out what to say, because if you're teaching in a program, if you're producing a project or you're doing whatever and you have to give feedback, you have to give feedback. So that's a muscle. That's a muscle where you have to just keep exposing yourself to more and more people simultaneously and more and more time. I just want to say one more thing about actors. Actors oftentimes beginning-level actors would get very annoyed if they're in a room where they only get to work for a very small part of the time. 26:01 And then they have to watch 15 people right, and I said you better thank your lucky stars because that's going to be one day, your company, your team, your classroom, your whatever and you're going to have to have the stamina and discipline to go through every single one of those auditions, every single one of those performances student or someone that really wants to learn as much as they possibly can, will understand the value of sitting there and listening and watching other people. 26:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you're right, there's a lot of people who will be quick to complain that, well, they might do a group workout, but they only get 10 minutes on mic, and so I believe that you should have individual attention, which is great for one-on-one coaching as well as the group workouts. 26:47 Yes, I do too. That together builds your muscle and really is something I advise everyone and to get experience and exposure with different directors, which is why one of the reasons why I have the VO Peeps group and it's one of the reasons why you have TIC right and you bring in guest directors, because it's very important for you to get exposure from different teachers, from different feedback from different people, because it just helps you become a more well-rounded actor. And, of course, if you can make that discipline I mean you don't want to be investing all your money into sessions and not be getting the most out of your sessions, out of your sessions and so, with that, if you are making the investment to get that coaching, then make sure that you start to exercise that muscle on a daily basis or every other day, whatever you can work in on a consistent basis. I think consistency is key. 27:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, it doesn't always have to be constant, but it should be consistent. That's really important, and I would build in every time work, a new tool, something that you have observed, picked up, been coached or directed to do. Write it down. Don't just keep it in your head and forget about it, because there's a million things that coaches and directors are going to be offering to you throughout your career that you're just not going to be able to conjure up and remember. So you have to document. However, you document, document and pull one thing out, say, oh okay, annie coached me, okay, she gave me builds. This week I got to work on my build. Let me look at this script. Let me work on my build. That's going to take my focus into a very specific zone, rather than me standing in the booth going has 15 minutes gone by yet? Have I practiced enough? Right, exactly. 28:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, and I'm going to say when you practice, it requires your focus. So for me to be the best actor that you can be, it requires 100 plus percent focus into your scene who you are, who you're talking to, because it's so easy to just read, so easy to just read. So don't just get in there and read. Get in there and create those scenes, figure out who you're talking to be in the scenes. And that requires imagination, it requires a lot of focus and that's tiring. 28:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) And take care of yourself, like don't dehydrate, don't overheat, don't feel like I'm standing for so long I can't see straight. If your eyes are hurting you from the light, turn the light off. Be easy on your brain so that your brain can focus on the more important things, that's, your work at hand. Make your environment conducive to practice. How many times, annie, have you seen one of your clients that you meet on a coaching session on Zoom and they're in the dark? They're in the dark and I'm like where's your light? Where's your light? How do you see? Aren't you straining your eyes? They're like, oh yeah, let me set something up. How do you see, aren't you straining your eyes? You're like, oh yeah, let me set something up. You got to do what's best for you. What makes your work more palatable for you is what's going to make your practice sessions more enjoyable. Right, absolutely. 29:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good stuff, Lau, great stuff. So very important bosses, practice, get your practice in, get your discipline in All right. Practice, get your practice in, get your discipline in All right. I am going to give a huge shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, which allows Lau and I to get in our vocal practice and talk to one another like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. 30:03 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.

Join Anne Ganguzza and guest co-host, Lau Lapides, as we share the personal rituals and support systems that keep us at the top of our game. From the mental clarity of Anne's Pilates routine to Lau's cherished moments with her furry friends, the BOSSES unravel how these treasured practices not only lift spirits, but also propel BOSSES through the most demanding business battles. The BOSSES guide you through the creation of an optimal workspace designed to awaken your most productive self. They also tackle the often-overlooked aspect of sound, from the tranquility of headphones to the creative surge provided by the right playlist. Plus, discover tried-and-true methods for diffusing work stress, to improve your business performance #likeaboss 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know your voice has the power to move, to persuade, to inspire. Imagine taking that power to its fullest potential. With guidance and expert production, I can help elevate your voice to new heights, making every voice script resonate with your audience. Let's empower your voice together, one session at a time. Find out more at anneganguzza.com. 00:29 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here in the Boss Superpower Series with my amazing special guest co-host, Lau Lapides. Oh hey, Annie, hi Lau. 01:01 - Lau Lapides (Host) So good to be here. 01:03 - Anne ganguzza (Host) So good to be here too. I am all set to record another amazing episode with you, and I've got my trusty cup of coffee right here, you got your cup of coffee and I got my trusty big dunks. 01:18 - Lau Lapides (Host) I think that's 32 ounces of water from dunks. 01:21 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Wow, look at that. Do you get your water from dunks? 01:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Not always, but if I'm going to go and get coffee anyway or something there anyway, I always ask for a large water. Even if they charge you a little, I ask for a large water, my double-fisted coffee. 01:36 - Anne ganguzza (Host) And these are actually my Ultima replenishers, which are electrolytes, which I love so I make sure that I'm drinking. I'm supposed to drink close to 100 ounces a day, and these help me to do so and to make sure that I'm getting all the nutrients that I need so that I can run my business like a boss. 01:54 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love it, I love it. 01:55 - Anne ganguzza (Host) So those are just a couple of my I guess, tools that support me while I am working and keep me energized and going and running my business like a boss. Let's talk about, maybe our tools or our support mechanisms that help us to keep running our businesses like bosses today. 02:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, that's a great topic. I love that. Just thinking about that makes me all cozy and fluffy inside, because when I think about the rituals, the routines, what I consider to be necessities of the daily run, what keeps me engaged and energized, going from morning till night, what is it that does that? For each individual person, there's so many different support options. 02:43 - Anne ganguzza (Host) We just showed you one. Yeah, and I'll tell you what right now. It was so funny because I happen to be watching Saturday Night Live last night and that tells bosses that we're here on a Sunday. I'm just saying we're here on a Sunday recording some boss episodes, but I happen to be watching Saturday Night Live and there's a whole comedy skit on Pilates, because it makes me think of. I've been getting into Pilates this year and it is something that I do early in the morning before I start my day. Usually I have a 7 o'clock class that goes till 8, and I get myself in the studio by 8.30 and really start running either with students or recording stuff in my studio, doing demo production by 9 at the very latest on a day-to-day basis. So Pilates, or getting my daily exercise in, has now become one of my go-to things. That is something I need to do. I need to feel like I've been able to exercise and get my heart rate up and be invigorated. Mm-hmm. 03:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love that, I love that. And if you miss it, if you miss that routine or ritual, how different do you feel, how different is the start of your day? So it's like patterns, you know. We're also talking about the discipline of creating a pattern in your social comfort that you need to really perform. There's all sorts of different things I pull out depending on the season and how I feel, but one of the things you and I discuss is the importance of our fur children. Oh gosh yes. 04:07 Because we're fur mamas and I've got my two Frenchie bulldogs, you've got your beautiful cats and we both love animals so, so much. 04:16 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Oh, my goodness, yes, and that love, that passion, helps to fuel the business as well, right when I need a break, when I'm having a lunch break or something, I make sure that I go and have playtime with the cats or I'm like I need a hug from one of my kitties, and so I'll go seek them out and get a hug and it's funny because animals, I love animals. 04:37 The other thing is that the horse show season has started here by me and for those of you that have not seen my photos on social media, I love, love, love horses and back in the day, Law and I, when we were talking about what we used to do when we were in our younger years, I used to ride horses and show horses. And so for me to live literally a mile away from a showgrounds where they have amazing, top-rated shows every weekend during the season Just makes me so happy. 05:08 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's such a big deal and it really infuses your spirit in a different way that really, I would say even redirects any kind of negative energy that I'm feeling, which we all have for different reasons. You know what's going on in the world, or what's going on in your family, or what's going on in your home, or whatever. It has the power to redirect you onto something very specific, very detailed, that is positive, that is something uplifting for you and something you can take that energy and put it right into your work. And I know you feel the way I feel about the animals. After a while I literally forget they're animals and I treat them as people and I feel like the energy and spirit of people are in the room. It really feels that way. 05:55 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I just live in the house with my cats. They run it pretty much. They let me live there and anybody that has been to my house knows there is a cat condo in just about every room. I think we have five. I think we have five cat condos. 06:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) Those condos are HOAs, aren't they? They're gated communities. 06:14 - Anne ganguzza (Host) They really are, and I'll tell you what the good thing is is that our cats actually use them, so that's a good thing If they never looked at them. 06:19 I would feel really bad and they also have their boxes of toys which they dig out and get new toys. And you know it's funny because Law I don't know if this is the way with your dogs but like, literally I've collected cat toys for the past. I mean I've owned cats ever since I was little and since I moved to, I would say, new Jersey, like in my 20s, I mean I've got like 40 years worth of cat toys that they just keep getting reused by the cats that I acquire. 06:44 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's hard to get rid of them, isn't it? Oh? 06:45 - Anne ganguzza (Host) it is. It's like a favorite stuffed animal. I mean, how can you when the cat plays with it? And of course they have boxes and boxes of toys, but really it's the paper bags that they like. 06:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) And we have those plastic bags. You know those really beautifully designed. So we have one on every floor brimming with stuff and I'm literally praying at times that the dogs rip them apart so I can start throwing them away. Oh my God yeah. Because I won't throw them away unless they need to be thrown away for some reason. Like I'm hoarding dog toys, so I get you right there. I get you right there, and it's like the joy of watching them play with one of those toys while you're working is so fun. 07:23 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, as much as I say that we're working on a Sunday, I mean, and we work hard both of us, I mean there's something to be said for just taking that time to kind of reset and refresh and re-engage and have things that we enjoy doing and that we need in order to continue moving forward in our businesses, and that is watching our animals play, watching our fur babies play, or going to a horse show, or something that really takes us out of the work day so that it can really refresh our brains, which I need. I need to have that brain power to run my business as efficiently and as effectively as possible. 08:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) There's a softening there too. There's a softening of a hardness which happens throughout the day, not necessarily becoming jaded or cynical, but becoming expectant of difficult things or expectant of challenges on a daily basis. It softens those blows I always say it keeps me more human. It keeps me more human as they're human. It keeps me more human in the keeps me more human as they're human. It keeps me more human in the situations that I'm dealing with. How about the room itself that you're in the studio, the office, the space you're in, having a support within that space that really allows you to flourish and grow? I know I love having sayings that I believe in so much so when I'm in a meeting I can stare at them and remember what they mean. Remember what they mean. Here's one of my favorite ones that's hanging on my wall in my office and I'm not always in my office, but when I am I remember it says create the things you wish existed. Oh, I like that. That's wonderful. 09:01 And that gives me a little frisson every time I see it. 09:03 - Anne ganguzza (Host) That is wonderful. Well, I think that I might have shown this to you before, but when I open the door of the studio and I don't know if you can see it, but I do have pictures of my fur babies, and over on the other side I have a picture of Jerry and I. And so that is something I can look at, and I plan on getting another one, actually, and hanging it, and so I think that being able to look at those things that just give me joy and some creative inspiration is paramount in the studio and of course I think for me I have to have windows with sunlight. 09:39 I am a big, big sunlight person. For me, and especially when it's the winter months and I get cold and you work and you know we're not moving a lot when we sit, sometimes when we're in the studio, or if I've got the headphones on and I'm doing some editing. I like to be able to get out into the sun and just soak up that vitamin D for a few minutes, when I get a break and that always, always refreshes me. 10:05 - Lau Lapides (Host) Always. I have a porch, annie, that's a screened-in porch. I also have a patio, which I love during the summer months, but the porch during the winter months, when we have some of the harsher, colder weather, has the sun pouring in so I can go out right in the middle of a winter and it's 30 degrees warmer on the porch where I can get that like you get that vitamin D, get that solar energy going to take a nap or refresh me or whatever the case may be. How about this? Sounds really weird, but the CEO of Starbucks was one of the first ones to study this over years and years and that was the shape of the desk. The shape of the table and where you sit in the table affects you socially and it affects the quality of connections you make with others. 10:56 - Anne ganguzza (Host) The shape of the table. So in regards to, I have a standing desk, which I love because if I don't feel like sitting, I can stand at it, but for me, placement-wise, I like to be right in the middle. I also like to also be in a cozy corner with a high back in terms of. If I ever go out to a restaurant, I always feel like I have to sit in a certain place. But tell me more about the shape of the table. 11:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh it's really interesting. 11:22 - Anne ganguzza (Host) In terms of like, if the table is round versus rectangular versus L-shaped versus…. 11:28 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, I don't know these days, I don't know if they've kept to this original thinking, but they found through their studies, through Starbucks, that the round table, the circular table, is more connecting in terms of the community that you're sitting in oh that makes sense Than a square table that has edges Right of the community that you're sitting in oh, that makes sense Than a square table that has edges right. I don't always find that, though, because I sit at a lot of square and rectangular tables that I feel really good at. 11:52 - Anne ganguzza (Host) So I don't know. You know that's interesting, but I think, if maybe you're talking about community, yeah, community. It's why it's always nicer to sit at a round table, because it's easier to talk, easier to communicate. Right At a round table, I think, well, a square table because you can have people on equidistant sides, but rectangular, you might have somebody all the way over you can't see people on your side, right, that makes total sense. 12:15 Or they're far away, Right, but in terms of placement on my desk, right, I like to be right in the middle and for me as much as sunlight, right. I was talking about light. I love a lot of light and actually I love a lot of white light in my office area, Like for me, fluorescent lights make me happy and I don't know if that's just me. 12:35 There's a lot of people that don't like fluorescent lights. I like a lot when I'm living and not necessarily working. I like more of a softer yellow light, but for me, for working, I love the white lights and, as a matter of fact, I have LED lights that are white lights that I can actually change the percentage of the lumens, but I like to have very white, bright light in my work area. 12:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) That makes me happy, fascinating, and I like to have, if I can. Of course, for us in New England, weather permitting, I like to have an open door or an open window at all times. Oh, interesting, if I can. I can't always do it, but even in the winter, if it's not horrible out and I have the fireplace on, I have the heat on, I can still have the porch door open, or I can even have a window open to fresh air. There's something about air and wind that the dynamics of that re-energizes me in a certain way. 13:31 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Luckily in California I can do that quite a bit. 13:34 - Lau Lapides (Host) And I like to keep windows open for the cats. 13:36 - Anne ganguzza (Host) It's interesting because when I moved to California, there's a lot of Californians that will just leave their doors open if they're in the house. 13:43 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, I grew up that way too. My neighborhood was that way too, but I don't love bugs and so if a bug happens to fly in. 13:50 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Living in the East Coast, in Mosquito, Aladdin, New Jersey, or humid places where there's a lot of bugs or moths at night. I just no, yeah, of course Cannot have an entryway for bugs to get into the house. Okay. 14:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) I got a good one for you. I got a good one for you, and maybe this is bordering on my OCD, I don't know but I need it neat and organized to a certain degree, where I do the physical cleanup right before I work, and it might be a minute, it might be five minutes, it might be whatever that activity gets me going in the dynamic of doing things. 14:29 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Interesting, so I like to, before you start, have a clean desk. Is that correct? Or one that's not cluttered? 14:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's me, I'm not so sure it's about the cleanliness per se. I think it's telling my brain that you're physical, you're active and you're able to accomplish something, even if it's very small and detailed. So cleaning up my papers, neatening my pens and pencils, making sure my monitors are there, making sure my coffee is ready to me, sets a dynamic in the feng shui of my energy that is easier for me to tackle my goals than if everything is all over the place. 15:06 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I have to have a clean sheet of paper because I have my little to-do pad and I still write it down and I know I have lots of lists. 15:11 - Intro (Announcement) Do you have your stickies? I don't have stickies. 15:13 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I don't have stickies but I have like a long to-do pad and that's where I write everything that I need to do, and I do that on the night, like when I'm done with work. I write things to do for the next morning and sometimes, when I sit down, if I do have things that I need to do for the day, I'm writing that down too. But I like to have a fresh, clean sheet of paper. 15:30 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's a generational thing. I do that as well. I think it's our generation. And it's tactile, it's physical. There's a physical thing there you're interacting with, you're writing, you're checking things off. I can barely write anymore. 15:43 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I mean, but you're still doing it, You're not doing it on your computer, right, I'm still doing it. Yeah, I'm still doing it. You're right, I can barely write legibly anymore and I don't even know if they're teaching like— Are they even teaching cursive writing anymore today? They're coming back to it, Annie. They're coming back to it. 16:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) There's something about handwriting. 16:03 - Anne ganguzza (Host) After my mother passed away. There's something so special about seeing her handwriting that brings back so many good memories. 16:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, I got a tear because it's so—why do we keep the cards, the letters, the notes? Because it's that handwriting for us it really is. You know, I also want to say too and this may seem a little odd, like to go into this, especially when you have other priorities, but I feel like if I can make it through X amount of emails, first thing in my morning number one I'll catch all the time priorities, and then, from the agency perspective, it's like you better catch it, Okay. But beside that, there's a click in me, there's something generated that's very open and very fresh and excited when I can make it through X amount of those and then I can get to the new thing, the next thing, the layered thing, whatever that is. If I have a lot waiting, if I have a lot in the wings that hasn't been done, my brain has a hard time getting into gear fully of what is happening throughout my day. 17:05 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Very interesting. Right, it's interesting You're talking to the girl that has all these unread emails in her mailbox. Some people have to clean their mailbox, right. 17:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) I kind of I guess I have to clean my mailbox because I have to clear my brain in that way so that I can have the appointments or go through the new things or whatever has to happen, and I feel like, even if it's just three or four or 10 or 20, I feel like that's an accomplishment. That's an accomplishment, right? Yeah, absolutely. It may not be the biggest one in our day, but it is one. It is something to celebrate in the day, whatever that means for you, whatever kind of organization that means for you. What about, like do you listen to a TV or music in your day or have that outside entertainment source coming in as you're working? 17:55 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Very rarely do I listen to anything other than my own audio or somebody else's audio during the day, because I need to be focused on it. Every once in a while, though, there is certain music that I can play, and it can only be like ambient music. Right, that can't disrupt my thinking, if I need to focus Like a white noise. 18:16 Well, no, it can be like Sirius XM chill, because chill is very, there's not a ton of dynamics to it and it can just be chill music and so I can listen to that and sometimes I like that. It's therapeutic. But it's very rare that during the day that I listen to anything other than the headphones are on my ears pretty much the whole day, because I'm either working with students or I am recording in the studio or I'm editing audio or I'm editing a demo or whatever that is. I Pretty much have these on and I could put music on, I absolutely could, but I need to make sure that I'm focused on the audio that comes through my ears, which is not always music and not always for enjoyment, but for work-related purposes. 18:59 - Lau Lapides (Host) Gotcha. I have to say I've always loved music. 19:03 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I love music too. 19:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, meaning that I've always had to have music around as I'm functioning throughout the day. And it's funny, my husband is opposite. He never has music on. He almost never has to listen to music. Well, he's a numbers guy, is he not? 19:17 - Anne ganguzza (Host) He's a numbers guy he might need to concentrate on. I'm just thinking that for me it's hard to concentrate with certain types of music. Maybe, maybe. 19:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, it just gets in the way of his thought process and his patterning For me. I was a dancer for many years in my younger years and I always had some sort of sound. There was some sort of sound happening that would transport me in a certain way. So I yearn in the day for a transportation of moments where I can daydream or I can concoct a new idea or I can think about something else. Oh, that's lovely. That's an interesting vehicle for me to do it, and I know it is for many people too. 19:55 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Well, when I'm not at my desk, then yes, and I do love music, I mean and music is so important when I'm exercising, for sure. 20:05 I mean, that is so very important that I have music that can help motivate and inspire me while I'm exercising. And it's funny because if I'm doing something like out in my gym, in the garage, which might be like on the pre-core or on the bike, and I'm not following a class and I'm just moving and doing long-term movement, that is where I need to have music. And it's funny because I have lots of playlists that my husband and I, through the years I met my husband he was my spin instructor we've created all these playlists. 20:35 We have hundreds of playlists that are pretty much essentially our favorite music and it's a whole lot of fun. So for that, yes, I do need music to inspire and motivate myself. But then it's funny because when I go to Pilates classes there are some instructors who like music kind of in the background and some of them that find it to be very distracting and really don't want the music on because they want you to concentrate and focus on the muscles of your body and not worry about the music they're playing. 21:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) Do you ever find that you need to step away in the middle of the day and do something completely different? Yes, absolutely Absolutely the day and do something completely different. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. That's a support right there, whether it's exercise or clean, something like do the dishes or make a phone call to a friend that you have to make a contact with, or whatever. Absolutely. I find that's very refreshing. That's a support that I look forward to. 21:26 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I think it's since my transition of working out in the world to working from home and working in my own studio. 21:33 Getting out is one of those things. It's kind of like going out to lunch or running an errand, and I do love the fact that we work for ourselves, that we can schedule those things. In. A lot of times on my off days, when I'm not coaching, I might have a doctor's appointment, or I might have a regular appointment where I go shopping or I pick up stuff at the grocery market and that, to me, is just a nice getting out, breathing the air, going for a walk and getting the mail. That is something that can really help Huge. 22:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) They may sound like small, insignificant tasks, but I really feel like they can not only fulfill my sense of accomplishment, but also recalibrate my whole mind and my body, to relax, to pull out of a situation recalibrate and then come back in more refreshed, more rejuvenated and more balanced right. 22:24 - Anne ganguzza (Host) What can you do? Or what do you do if something at work is frustrating you right Outside of trying to resolve it immediately? What do you do for support? 22:34 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, of course it depends on what it is. So if I feel like I need outside support of the problem solving, I have my little inner circle that I'll call or email and say hey, I got a situation, what are your thoughts on this? I'd like to get your thoughts and I usually get really quick response of those inner circle of people. It's exhausting because you're going from one session to another, one moment to another, one audition to another, or people are misbehaving, people are misbehaving Any number of things right that you can't really help or do People are misbehaving. 23:04 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I have my circle of friends. You are in that circle a lot and I will like I'll be like texting you. 23:11 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love it. In the middle of the night we'll be like, yeah, let's just talk it out on text, let's just make it happen so that you get to a new place, you get to a new place. I still tend to physically do something because I feel like, kinesthetically, my muscles need to shift out of stress or tension mode into accomplished mode. Even if it's like do the laundry or do the dishes or something simple like that, I do find that helps me a lot. It allows my brain to rest through an activity that I need to do anyway. That's useful anyway, but something that is not taxing. 23:47 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I will say I will. Sometimes. I'll either get off of social media because that might be the source right, or I will go to social media, but it won't be within voiceover. It'll be looking at something in social media that is, other interests of mine Like cooking or something Right, I watch a lot of horse jumping. I watch a lot of cats. Does that surprise you? 24:08 - Intro (Announcement) I watch a lot of cat videos, no, so all those things, it does not. A lot of humor, it does not. 24:19 - Anne ganguzza (Host) A lot of entertainment, music, so that sort of thing. So I will either unplug or plug into the social media. That brings me joy and entertainment versus work stress. 24:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly To me. They're not only ritualistic disciplines, but they're also support. They're not only ritualistic disciplines, but they're also support. They're comfort and support that we know how to self-medicate in a really positive way. Here's the thing. I don't want to dull out my senses, I don't want to dumb myself down, I don't want to water myself down, so I don't feel it. I just want to give myself a momentary break and then be able to come back to it with a fresh eye and a fresh ear and a fresh thought. I think there's a big difference between the two of like I have to run away from this, I don't want to think about this and I don't ever want to come up against this. Right, you have to be willing to come back. 25:00 - Anne ganguzza (Host) You know it's interesting. I'm trying to think like I've never really tried to run away from things because for me, the sooner I can resolve them, I think the better. 25:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) I feel and for me. 25:12 - Anne ganguzza (Host) I really am trying not to run away from things, and I don't know if that's a personality thing or if that's something I don't know. Bosses what do you think I mean? Being bosses of our own business? Sometimes we can't run away and we have to face issues and try our best to resolve them, and these emotional support mechanisms, or support mechanisms that Law and I have been talking about, may be something that can help us to ease our minds, ease our emotional psyche, so that we can come back better, stronger and resolve them, so that we can move forward in our businesses. 25:48 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love that and it's so interesting how we do this unconsciously until we really recognize. It takes time to recognize. What am I doing, what am I actively doing to either soothe myself, help myself, whatever, and what am I doing? That's not helping, that's counterproductive, right? And really being honest about that, like being aware, having a self-awareness about that yeah, absolutely Even just like writing it down or taping yourself or having someone report back if they're seeing you doing certain activities or doing certain things, I think it's really important to document that and figure out what's working for you as a business. 26:28 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Absolutely so. Yeah, I mean it's been a fun episode. I mean talking about our little emotional support mechanisms and bosses out there, as you said, it may seem like, oh, it seems like just well, this is what we do every day, but in reality, they do a lot to help us to move ourselves forward in our businesses. And so, bosses, what do you do, Right? What do you do to help get yourself through the day? What are your rituals? What things do you need? We'd love to hear from you. 26:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely and really claim them, really own them and really be proud of them. You want to make sure that you're able to talk about them and be proud of them and not hide them away. 27:05 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Cool episode Law. Very cool, Very cool. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and let's hear from you guys. We'll see you next week. Bye. 27:23 - Intro (Announcement) See you next time. Bye, join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. Via IPDTL. 27:52 - Anne ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the boss. Did I say podcast? I didn't say podcast. Take two, take two.

One of the first places voice actors often look for auditions is on Pay to Play sites. For a fee, these sites let you audition for jobs from potential clients all over the world. But these sites can have downsides, including unethical business practices. Controversy over these sites has been highlighted at voiceover conferences and throughout social media. In this episode, the BOSSES delve into navigating online casting platforms and cultivating loyal client relationships outside of these sites. We discuss the investment of time and resources needed to be successful and the importance of evolving with the industry to avoid getting left behind. Ever-evolving AI technology challenges us to redefine our roles and strategies, and we tackle this head-on sharing insights into how we can adapt to remain indispensable. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey VO Bosses. Ann Ganguzza here. Are you struggling to market that boss voice of yours? Well, let me tell you about the VO Boss Blast. With a custom vetted list and personalized emails, we can help you get your marketing message out to those who hire. Find out more at vobosscom and let's blast off together. 00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, everyone welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and we are here with the Real Boss series with my good friend and guest co-host, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere. 00:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Hello Anne Ganguza. 00:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom Dheere, it was so awesome to see you at VO Atlanta. I have to say. 01:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, the drive-by hug Right. 01:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know and I saw you for like a split second, but still it was good for that split second to get the hug in. Absolutely, I know the two of us were insanely busy but getting back together since VO Atlanta. There was a big bomb dropped at VO Atlanta with the Drama, bomb. 01:17 Yeah, with the online casting panel, which began with an apology from the CEO of Voicescom. And so, hmm, let's talk, shall we? Let's dish, let's dish, let's, let's, let's fill some tea. So what were your initial? Were you surprised and what were your initial thoughts? And actually we should just recount for the bosses who were not there at VO Atlanta, the very first thing, on a panel of online casting with J Michael Collins, j Michael asked the acting CEO of Voicescom was he prepared to apologize to the voiceover community for the actions on behalf of Voicescom in the past few years, now that David Cicerelli has stepped down and indeed there was an apology. So, tom, were you there, present in the audience? 02:07 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, yes, I was there. I was asked to be there actually. Me too, me too Okay so you were part of that little group of people that were asked to make sure that we would be present at the online casting. Because then we could talk about it like this so then we could talk about it, or we could step up to the mic and ask some pointed questions. 02:23 But to give everybody a little bit of background is that Voicescom has had a pretty bad reputation for a good 10 years, Because I think the first great resignation was in 2014, which is when the interview with Graham Spicer came out and the article that somebody wrote showing how, you know, the same casting notice was posted on Voice123 and Voicescom, but the Voicescom was thousands of dollars lower. So they were caught kind of red-handed doing what many would consider some unethical practices. 02:53 Double-dipping, triple-dipping, Right so Jay O'Connor, who is the acting CEO of Voicescom, is also the son of the recently deceased Supreme Court Justice, sandra Day O'Connor, and he also works for Morgan Stanley. 03:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And Morgan Stanley was the company that put $17 million investment into Voicescom, not a voiceover company. 03:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Not a voiceover company. They invested that roughly six, seven years ago. So I'm assuming that David Cicerelli stepped down because he didn't come through on his promise to make their money back. So that's why they put one of their own people in there. So I'm assuming Jay's job is very simple make their money back. So that's just kind of the background. And JMC who I just had him on my Ask Me Anything said that one of the conditions of Jay appearing at VO Atlanta was that he apologized for the past business practices and behaviors. So it made me think about the word responsible. Jay was not CEO of Voicescom when all the interesting stuff happened. However, if you break down the word responsible, it's response able able to respond. 03:57 Oh, I like that Well yeah because, if you think about it, Jay is not guilty of the stuff that Voicescom did under their previous administration, but now he is able to respond to all of that stuff. So you know that late last year Voicescom signed the Fair Voices Pledge and altered their terms of service, the Fair AI. 04:19 Thank you Nava and Tim Freelander and Karin and all those wonderful people there. So what was extra funny is I was sitting next to Miranda Ellis, who's our buddy, who helps run VA for VO, and we were talking about it. We're wondering who's that guy up there? And then I was telling her about the whole Jay O'Connor thing and then JMC said and here is CEO of Voicescom, jay O'Connor, and we're like oh okay, there he is. 04:47 And yes, he did apologize. He gave them an F for how they handled the situation, but they said they're going to be working on moving forward and a lot of pointed questions were asked. I was surprised that he was there. I was surprised at the apology. I think he handled most of the questions from the audience pretty well, pretty professionally. 05:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I wasn't surprised at the apology. I mean, j Michael basically said are you prepared to apologize? And when you are a CEO of a company, I mean at some point, like I imagine, you're going to work that out politically correctly in front of an audience of thousands, knowing that we would be talking about this. What was he going to say? To be quite honest, I mean, I wasn't surprised that he apologized. I wasn't surprised that he took Jay Michael on it, because, guess what, there's business for him sitting there in the audience. 05:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh yeah, potential customers. There was a sea of potential customers in there and ones who had left the platform who now could be persuaded to return to the platform as well. I did make it a point to talk to him afterwards. I as well. I did make it a point to talk to him afterwards. I first said I'm sorry about your mother's recent passing. 05:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, thank you. 05:47 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I say thank you on behalf of I know he's a person. 05:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) He is a person, yeah, Like he's just a guy. 05:52 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) He probably didn't know Voicescom existed, right? So, like he doesn't know about this stuff and we have to give him the benefit of the doubt, of course of the doubt, we have to assume he's an ethical, response-able person and I said hey, if you need some insight from boots-on-the-ground people, let me know. I gave him my card. He said thank you, he was very kind. So am I optimistic about Voicescom? Cautiously pessimistic? No, yeah, cautiously optimistic. So I'll say cautiously pessimistic. But you know what? I'll tell you something, anne. I rejoined in September of 2023 because they did change their terms of service, they did sign the Fair Voices Pledge and also, as the VO strategist, I have students who want to understand what's going on and if it should be used and how it should be used Yep. 06:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) completely agree with that. So if nothing else. 06:39 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I wanted to create an account to understand how the platform functions, how to feed the algorithm. 06:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If we are going to be working with students I mean myself included. I mean honestly. I mean we have to know about these platforms so that we can talk about them and recommend them or not to our students. So I feel like I'm a member of Voice123. Now I will say that I was not able to stay for the full session at VO Atlanta because literally they scheduled that right in the middle of my X session, so after 20 minutes I had to leave and so I did not get a chance to speak to him myself personally. But I know a lot of people that I've talked to did, and Mark Scott also did a nice recap on his podcast about the conversation and his conversation with him as well, and myself and Law had a discussion about it as well on a podcast. So I think it's good that we're talking about it. But I'd like to go further, tom. I'd like to talk to you about pay-to-plays in general, what part they play now in the voiceover industry and where you might see them going in the future. 07:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's funny because maybe 15 years ago they were a disruptive force in the voiceover industry, not unlike AI right now, which is currently a disruptive force in the voiceover industry. And, like I've said about AI and you and I talked about this a couple of episodes ago when it comes to disruptive technologies or business models, you can fight it, you can ignore it, you can adapt to it or you can embrace it. So everybody has their own journey and their own path on how to define success as a voice actor and what they need to do. You want to do all high-end cartoons and video games. You need representation. You need to join SAG-AFTRA. You may need to move to LA or New York or Dallas and do a boots-on-the-ground thing. If you want to narrate audiobooks, that's a different track. If you want to narrate e-learning modules, that's a different track. The best way that I can illustrate this is talking about my journey on Voice123. I joined Voice123 in 2006. 08:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) no-transcript. 08:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I joined it the first year that I went full-time as a voice actor. I learned a lot on there. 08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It wasn't my first year as a voice actor, but it might've been my second or third, and it was an opportunity. It was a new opportunity to get work, and I remember at the time. How else did you get work outside of if you had an agent? I did not have an agent at the time. I was working on the online platforms like Freelancer back in the day I mean, it was Freelancer, I don't know if it was Odesk. 09:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Odesk Elance, Elance. 09:23 - Intro (Announcement) I was on all those too. 09:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was on all of those too, and then Voice123 came out and I joined in 2006 as well, and actually it worked well for me Although you have actually created a record of how well you've done on that platform throughout the years, and so I'm eager to hear about that. 09:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Sure. So for those of you who are listening to this, I'll just read this to you as best I can, but I've got a little slide up here. So I joined in 2006. There was only one tier, it was $200. That first year, I made $1,100. So a great return on investment. Next year, rejoined, made $2,750. So that was great. 2008, it went up to $300. I made $2,650. 2009, made $1,. I made $2650,. 2009, made $1950,. 2010, I made $13,000. 10:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What changed. 10:09 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I got better at auditioning and I also landed a big textbook like a science textbook. So that was a big chunk of that $13,000. 10:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you, in those years, in those early years, how many auditions were you doing? Were you doing 10 a day, 20 a day, as many as possible? 10:26 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I was doing a lot less than that. I was doing a handful a day, but also my direct marketing strategies were working pretty well, so it was complementing. So I was blogging and doing social media and posting on Facebook and Twitter and stuff like that, so it was part of a balanced breakfast, absolutely. 2011, made almost $8,000. 2012, I renewed, but I only made $350. Now what happened in 2012 is that my voiceover career turned the corner. I went full-time in 2006, but late 2011, all the seeds I'd been planting for all those years started to bloom. So I found myself auditioning a lot less because I was just booking a lot more as a result of my direct marketing strategy. 11:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right and then also probably repeat clients at that time were starting. I was also getting repeat clients. 11:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) So yeah, so that was happening too. Now, in 2013, I did not renew. I made only $300 just from a legacy client. But the main reason I didn't renew is because there was a cultural thing going on in voiceover where a lot of voice actors were saying that if you are on a pay-to-play site, you are contributing to the lowering of rates, you are a bottom feeder, you're enabling predatory practices, and I made the dumbest decision in my voiceover career, which was I stopped auditioning on Voice123. It was a huge mistake. So, 2014, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, I made virtually nothing because I didn't have a paid account. 11:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But also what happened in those years. Had you gone more to direct methods of marketing? Yes, okay. 11:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, direct marketing was my main jam. 2014 was, to be totally honest, and that was the year I made the most money as a voice actor. And then in 2015, 16, 17, 18, my income started fluctuating wildly $20,000, $30,000 rises and falls year over year. One of my top 10 clients replaced me with AI back then too. 12:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In what year was that? 12:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That was 2018, I think, A top 10 client. I was replaced by AI and then 2019, I made nothing. 2019 also, there was like a major downshift in my voiceover revenue because I noticed almost all of my direct marketing strategy stopped working. So did I all of a sudden become a lousy voice actor? Maybe Did industry trends change and my voice was out of fashion? Definitely not. It was becoming even more in fashion more young, energetic, friendly guy next door sound, which is still in demand. So, after contemplation and talking to friends and professionals, I rejoined for $888 in 2020. And now there was a tiered plan. 12:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, exactly I was going to say at this point bosses, pay-to-plays evolved. They used to be just one fee and it was usually around $200 to $300. I remember when Voicescom came on the scene it was the cheaper of the two, for $200, when Voice 123 was at $295, I believe, or something like that. And so then there was a bunch of people that joined Voicescom because they kind of undercut the competition, so to speak, which maybe we should have looked at that in the beginning and said, oh, look at that Now there's competition in the online community and online casting community because Voicescom was the second, I would say, largest platform to come out and they grew fairly quickly, I think because of that lower price point. 13:42 And they also did a bunch of good marketing, I would say, on Google. I think they did a bunch of Google ads and they had a bunch of. Seo that they were working on, and so they became really, really popular around that time. 13:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) So what happened in 2020 when I rejoined? So I rejoined like it was a Black Friday sale. Basically, I had one month and in one month I made $1,300. But here's what I noticed. Well, I made my money back immediately. But the other thing I noticed is that when you're on Voice123 and you can click on the client number, sometimes you can see an email address associated with that client profile and often it's the extension of productioncompanycom and I started noticing production companies that I used to work with or that on Voice123. So I was like oh, interesting. So apparently there has been a migration of ethical, well-paying production companies making quality content that had been slowly making their way to Voice123 and probably Voicescom too, because it's easier to curate a roster, it's easier to post an audition. 14:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, yeah, you have hundreds and thousands of people of different voices on these platforms and it can be a little bit cheaper. I know that was the whole thing, because here you're not necessarily saying how much will it cost, right, when you have a direct contact, versus specify your budget, right? A lot of these pay-to-plays asked you to specify a budget and so if you specified a lower budget, you could still have hundreds of people responding to this, because it was like freelancer Odesk. It started to become the lowest bid, wins almost. 15:23 - Intro (Announcement) Yes. 15:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like kind of thought, and especially when you're talking after the many years of online casting, it just then became a thing where, oh, I can get cheaper voiceover, and for a business, right, I can have lots of different voices I can choose from and it's probably cheaper. And so for a business, I mean really, where's that business decision, unless you've caught them right and you've become like a valued voiceover actor for them, that you've given them value over and over and over again. Now, all of a sudden, they have hundreds of thousands of people they can choose from that are credible, right, and they're cheaper. So business decision, tom? 16:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, here's the thing about that too is like since 2020, since I rejoined, my gigs aren't $100 or $200. They're $4, $5, $6, over $1,000. 16:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because you can specify that. 16:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Because I can specify that and that also tells me that there are ethical, well-paying production companies on Voice123 in addition to bottom feeders. So in spring of 2021, the algorithm changed All of a sudden. The auditions there was a lot less and they were a lot lower paying, so I didn't renew. 16:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, they redid their platform a couple of times completely. So that caused a lot of commotion in the voiceover world. 16:35 And, interestingly enough, tom, I just want to bring this up who else was sitting on that stage at VO Atlanta but Rolf Veldman, who was always the one from Voice123 that got a lot of heat from these conferences. But I love Rolf. I think, rolf, he took it year after year after year right as a person who was not necessarily in the voiceover business either, but he would show up and he would respond and he was, I believe, transparent, which then I gave him my respect for that Because, if nothing else, he was transparent. 17:11 He finally was on the stage and probably going wow, the guy from Voicescom is getting all the heat this year. 17:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, he was grinning from ear to ear. He was eating it with a spoon. He loved it. So 2022, I rejoined again, but this time I joined on the $2,200 tier. So this was late March 2022. In that year, I made $12,000. And then 2023, which is my first full calendar year of being under the $2,200 tier, I made almost $19,000. 17:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a definite return on investment. So. 17:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, and as of this year, 2022, and today, as of literally today, April, I have made $6,200. 17:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now is the majority of that from new clients or clients that are coming back to you. 17:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, that's the thing, it's a combination. So there's two sets of clients, you know, there's your audition and pray clients, and then there's your legacy clients. 18:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Audition and pray Yep, absolutely Right. 18:06 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Commercials tend to be audition and pray. Cartoons, video games tend to be audition and pray. E-learning, corporate explainer, more of the audio book. Often those tend to be non-audition and pray because often you join an e-learning roster or you join a telephony roster and you don't audition, they just send you work. So with Voice123, there's a lot of them. One particular one comes to mind I auditioned for a corporate, short, three-minute, corporate industrial about bananas in a grocery store. If you work in the produce department, how do you handle the bananas to make sure they don't bruise, how to display them properly, quality check and all that stuff. It was a gig. Three minutes directed session, $550. So I'm like okay, that's like right in the sweet spot for that. That's like perfectly fine For three minutes directed session, great. And then they sent me nine more without auditioning. 18:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 19:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) So an audition in Prey see, that's what people think about Voice123 is that it's an audition in Prey machine. It is if you suck, and it is if you can't audition well, and it is if you can't deliver the goods once you audition and book the spot. So I do have a lot of new clients, but a lot of them, a lot of them, have come back for more. 19:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And with Voice123,. One of the big differences of the platforms is that you can take the client off the platform. They have never intercepted and I don't believe that they will, because I think that's Rolf's claim to fame and how they lasted right through the turmoil of people being angry at them was that you could always take the client off the platform. Now, voicescom does everything in their power to make you not take the client off the platform, and that is where they get into people labeling them as double and triple dippers. 19:50 So not only are you paying for that yearly membership fee and they also have different levels. But when you have a managed job or any job you cannot disclose, you won't know their email address, you cannot work with them off platform and people have been threatened if it's found out that they're working with them off platform. So thoughts on that business policy. Tom, what do you think about that? 20:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'm going to answer that question with a question. Do you think voice actors should pay to audition for anything? 20:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, yeah, that's a really, really good question. I mean, I don't think so. 20:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I don't think so to a point. 20:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think they should pay for a platform that gives them opportunities. So that's a tough one, right? I mean should they pay to audition. 20:38 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, I think of it this way If you told me 20, 25 years ago that I would have to pay to watch a Yankee game on television, I would have said you're out of your mind. And now they have the yes Network, where you have to pay to have access to get the quality content that you want. That being a Yankee game and auditions are quality content and that's a subscription model of a lot of businesses today. 21:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and even I've considered it for this podcast, right, all right, so you can get a certain amount of listens free, but there is quality content or maybe more in-depth content that you would subscribe to. 21:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And you do keep it with subscriptions, like Patreon pages do, and things like that. Yes, it's a common business model. Here's another question Do you think voice actors should get paid to do auditions? 21:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's a good question. Not necessarily. It depends on if that gets used right, If their audition gets used for the job, if you're getting paid. 21:32 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Is it a demo or a scratch track? 21:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. But now, okay, let's just say you pay for the option or you pay for the opportunity to get auditions. Should then there be an escrow fee? Right, and that's what a lot of people have the problem with an escrow fee. And should there be a managed services fee? And should there be a managed services fee? Now, anybody that manages a job, right that project, manages the job. A manager takes a percentage, an agent takes a percentage, but then on top of an annual fee right to audition, plus an escrow fee. Now, if you remember, tom, in the beginning Voicescom's escrow fee was an option and I believe is it still an option. If you want to do, because escrow was an option back in the early days, you could choose to have them hold the money or say I'm going to get my money guaranteed if I put it in escrow, and then you paid a fee for that. 22:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I think it's mandatory now. 22:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, so that's triple dipping to a lot of people right, Get rid of one of those fees, I mean do you feel that's right. 22:40 - Intro (Announcement) I mean, I think it's fair that it's either you pay to be on the site and there's no additional fees or being on the website is free and then they're taking a percentage of it, not both. 22:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Now, you weren't there for the Q&A. Our friend, miranda Ellis, who I was sitting next to in the audience, got up and she said I have a problem with the fact that one of the casting spec options is broadcast in perpetuity. And she said that's a big problem for a lot of voice actors because that can create permanent conflicts. She asked are you going to get rid of that? And he said no, because we would lose a lot of business that way. That's not a good answer. That's the only thing I was truly unhappy about with his answers, but he owned it. 23:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, honestly, I think that it's a responsible action for an online platform like that to like lead the way. Right, because here's the deal. Right, you're talking about consumer mentality. I mean in voiceover jobs, I mean if people are not used to. If you're a small company, you're not used to hiring a voice artist and you're not sure, like, how does that work? Right, I mean in perpetuity. I mean if you work for a company, right, and they hire you, you sign a contract, you're working full-time, everything you do for that company is property of the company, and that just became that same mentality. Right for the freelancers Okay, I'm going to pay you. 23:53 Work for hire yeah work for hire and I pay you and that's it, and that's where the mentality stayed for a lot of companies. I think if you are a large service provider to a voiceover, you should take the lead and do what's right and do what's ethical, and that to me would be like start it and say no in perpetuity. There's not an option for in perpetuity. 24:14 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right. 24:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that would be a nice thing. Otherwise we sit here and we fight, and we fight, and we fight like we've always fought right To get rid of in perpetuity. Do you think in perpetuity will ever go away, tom? 24:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I think it will always exist in some form yeah, I agree. 24:30 The thing that concerns me the most about it is that, like, if there's a casting notice and it says erotic, there is explicit sexual content. Everybody knows what that means. They know what they're getting into. If it's a casting notice for a political ad Democrat, republican or whatever you look at the script and you go oh okay, do I feel comfortable with this? You know what you're getting into. You can make a value decision. If it's these text-to-speech things, some of these casting notices, or if it's an online perpetuity, a lot of the voice actors don't know what that means. They don't know what they're getting into, and that's where SAG-AFTRA, nava and other organizations that's where the onus is on them to educate, to make sure that people are aware of what these things mean. That should not be the case. Voicescom should not have that option or the ability to modify the option. 25:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly. You know what I mean Exactly. 25:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Because there's genres and sub-genres. You know like, if you want a public service announcement forever to technically broadcast and have that be in perpetuity, you can make a case for that. 25:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what I mean. 25:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) But it's too broad and it isn't explained. There should be like a little button or a little like question mark or a little thing next to it. You click on that and it's like this is what this means. 25:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And voice actors should have been educated many, many, many years ago, right? And what does it mean when you deliver an audio file, right? This is where, okay, we're creatives, we're good at what we do, but we also this is where the business sense comes in. Right, here, have my audio. 25:53 And usually what happens is something bad has to happen for us to like say, oh shoot, I probably should have a terms of service or a statement of work or a contract for all our non-broadcast stuff. So all our non-broadcast people are like, yeah, sure, give me a hundred dollars or give me $500, give me a thousand, that's perfect. And then all of a sudden, they find that their voice is out there on TikTok, you know, I mean, I'm not saying that that was Bev, but things like that happen, right. Or it even happens today with agents that are looking after our best interests, where sometimes you'll find a commercial that was supposed to only be regional which is now in a different place. And how do we know about it? Not until somebody tells us about it. And so we should. Now, with the technology, there should be a way to voice print and tag our audio so that we know if it's not where it should be, and it's being used. 26:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And they're working on that? Yeah, exactly, they are working on that, exactly. 26:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, I really feel as though we should have a part two and a part three and a part four with this conversation. But wow, tom, good stuff. Thank you so much for sharing. I love that you shared the real numbers. I mean, anybody that knows me knows how much I love talking numbers because it really brings a level of realism to the bosses and I think that we all need to really see those numbers and it really helps to educate us on making good decisions for our businesses. So, thank you, tom, it was wonderful talking to you again and I look forward to the next podcast. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses real bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. All right, have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye. 27:33 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. 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