VO BOSS

The magic of voice is the way it transcends text to something more than just words. Anne is joined by James MacLeod of BeyondWords to discuss that process. They discuss the need for text-to-speech integration, from news sources to accessibility + how voice actors can stay involved. James explains contractual + licensing agreements that actors should understand before lending their voice so you can approach synthesizing your voice like a #VOBOSS.

To join or not to join, that is the question. Anne & Pilar delve deep into how union & non-union work has shaped their careers. They discuss the biz before SAG and AFTRA merged, jobs in a right-to-work state, and changes in work accessibility due to tech advances & the pandemic. Joining the union is a very personal choice, and depends on where you live and what genres you wish to work in. Learn from Pilar as she shares her journey to joining the union + Anne who explains her reasons for remaining non-union so you can make the best choice for you like a #VOBOSS. >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to be back again with my very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Hey Pilar. How are you today? PIlar: I am doing great, Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm doing awesome this beautiful morning. Hey, I got a question for you. I have a lot of students that ask me about the union and should they be part of the union and when is the time for them to join the union. And I also have another student who's going to be moving to California, and they're asking these questions about the union. So I think it would be a great time to talk about it with you, because I know that you are a union member, and I like to kind of do a here's the union 101 kind of class in the podcast today. So I know there's a lot of people out there that have questions. And tell me a bit about how you joined the union. Pilar: Well, I have a long history with the union. I started out actually in New York because I got extra work on "One Life to Live" back when there were a lot of soap operas. And basically the day that I walked into the area where they -- the holding room, where you have all the extras sit, this very nice person, stuck out her hand and said, hi, I'm so-and-so, a member of AFTRA, the local representative. And I thought, oh, this is interesting. So literally I had not stepped foot on a soundstage in New York when there was somebody already basically saying to me, this is an offer you can't refuse. And so, yeah, because it's like, you don't really have a choice. You have to become a member of the union. Anne: You gotta join here. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. So I did, I joined happily, and I actually did a lot of extra work with the different soap operas in New York. And then when I went to Colombia, they don't have unions down there. They didn't. Now they are starting to, they do have something together. Anne: Let me just back up. You were in New York at what time? What year was it that you joined the union in New York? Pilar: Oh gosh, this was the 90s. Anne: Okay. Pilar: This was in the nineties. And this is when, because AFTRA is not -- everybody thinks of AFTRA as just radio, but also -- Anne: Yeah, that's what I remember. Pilar: Yeah. AFTRA's also TV. Anne: But not all TV though, right? Pilar: But not all TV. Exactly. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I want to say that AFTRA might just be daytime TV or it was daytime TV or maybe it was -- Anne: Plus radio, Pilar: -- like game shows and stuff like that. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. Because when I got into the industry, you know, it was all AFTRA. There was no SAG. There was all AFTRA for voice actors, that that's what you were supposed to join. And then they merged at some point. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. And actually AFTRA stands for the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. Anne: Yes. Yes. Pilar: So that tells you right there, that it was specifically for some forms of television. I'm not really sure back then what the distinction was, but SAG and AFTRA were completely separate unions. Anne: So you were in New York and you were an AFTRA member in the 90s, and then you went to Colombia. And you were on, you were on television in Colombia, but there's. yeah, no unions. Pilar: No unions, but I kept my AFTRA card anyway, because I thought you never know. And dues were very, very low. So I just, I kept it, I kept it up and then I came back to -- Anne: Good thinking. Pilar: Yeah. Well, yeah. Thank goodness. Yes. Yes. Anne: 'Cause you were in Colombia for, what, eight years, right? Pilar: Nine years, nine years. Anne: So a while. So I like that manifestation that you never know, right, when you're going to need that card again or that status. Okay. Cool. All right. Pilar: And the dues back then were very, you know, they were very reasonable, so it wasn't, it wasn't a big deal. So I come back to Miami because I decide I want to be halfway between Bogota and New York. Anne: And that was in the 2000s, right? Pilar: That was in the 2000s, early 2000s. And then I discovered that Miami is a right to work state. Anne: So let's talk about that. Let's define that first. What is a right to work state? Pilar: Okay. So the actual definition of a right to work state is that states have the authority to determine whether workers can be required to join a labor union, to get and keep a job. So labor unions still operate in those states, but workers, they can't be forced to become members as a requirement of their job, which they do have to be, let's say, in New York or Los Angeles, if you want to work on a soundstage. Anne: Right, you have to be in the -- Pilar: You have to be a member of the union. Yeah. And they're very strict with that. And I remember when I worked in, in television in the times that I did extra work, it was so interesting to be on the soundstage. And for example, the coordinator, the guy who yells 5, 4, 3, 2, you know, 1, one time, the director was already in the booth and the actors were on stage, and the guy went to move the plate, and he was not allowed to, because a member of the prop union had to come over and move the plate two inches forward. They're very, very strict about that. And for good reason, you know, because that's -- the unions are there to protect the workers. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: And what each person's job is. So when I got to Miami, I started auditioning and I started getting non-union jobs. And I was happy with that. And every, I remember union actors complains saying once they became union, then there weren't as many possibilities. Anne: Because there was other people vying for the same roles, right? Pilar: Yes, exactly. And there was so much competition. And so non-union actor could vie for a union job. Whereas in other states like California, Los Angeles -- Anne: You had to be union. Pilar: You had to be union. So I kept booking work and you know, I was, I was fine with that. And this, I was booking on camera work at that time. Anne: Did people try to convince you to join the union? Were you offered? Pilar: No, because Florida is a little bit like the wild west, back then it was. And so there was nobody compelling, no -- there was nobody showing up at the door saying, you gotta, you gotta join. No, not like, not like in New York. Anne: Right. Pilar: And so one day I got a call from my agent and she said, you booked a SAG commercial. And I thought, oh, okay, this is cool. And it's just, it's so interesting. The world of non-union versus union. 'Cause I did a ton of extra work in New York on films. And so I think I mentioned that before, like I basically touched Arnold Schwartzenegger's sleeve. And then one time I was in this Michael J. Fox film, and we were in a theater, we -- no, it was just, uh, just hoards of non-union extras sitting in the seats, and then there's this altercation. And then James Woods comes and I don't know what he does. And literally he had a cowboy boot on, I'll never forget it. And he stepped on my foot. And so we did like four takes, and every time he went in, he stepped exactly on my foot. I mean, he, like, my foot was his mark, so wild. And so I've actually, it's so funny. 'Cause I looked at that, I've looked at that scene and you can't really see me. You can see my jacket, and you can see me for like a second, but I'm like, yep. That's the day that I got a bruise that covered my foot for about a week. Oh my gosh. It was so painful. But I was so excited because, you know, James Woods stepped on my foot -- Anne: Stepped on your foot. Absolutely. Right. Pilar: It was interesting. And I also did extra work on "Law and Order," and they treated the union actors very differently from the way they treated the non-union actors. And I remember thinking, wow, they get like extra candy bars. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: Right. And they get like special food. Anne: Yep. Pilar: And it's a whole different world. And they were all in cliques and they would bring their board games and their jigsaw puzzles. And they would, 'cause you know, you're basically waiting all day to do something. And you, the time that you work is so little, but I just remember looking at them going, wow, that's such a cool world. And it's, you know, it's the world of waiting. It's like, you're just basically a waiter. You know, you wait and you wait. So I did a whole bunch of those in New York. And then I started doing more non-union principal work. And then when I got this SAG commercial, I was treated like a queen. I couldn't believe it. I was like, usually you go -- when you're an extra, you go and you, you bring your own clothes, and they look at your clothes and you put your own makeup on, and they treat you a little bit like cattle. I mean, you know, the people are nice. The PA's are nice, but you're just basically shuffled off into a room and you're in. Then they, you know, they, they're, you know, it's food and whatever. When you're like as a union person -- and this, I didn't even have a speaking part. It was a really, really fun thing. We were just all these characters in like this little sort of little mini play of an office, and my makeup was done. My hair was done. They kept fiddling with my outfit, and I was just like, wow, this is what it's like to be in the union. And at that point I wasn't a member of the union. So that was a really special moment. This was like my first SAG on camera commercial. It was like the big leagues because I had done that extra work on daytime TV that was AFTRA back in New York. But this felt really, really special. And so, I don't know, maybe a couple months after that I received a letter. Anne: I was going to say, you did the commercial, you did the commercial, the SAG commercial. And then they asked you to join? Pilar: Yes, yes. And then they asked me to join. And -- Anne: Was it a requirement? It was a requirement? Pilar: Nope, because you -- a lot of the times what happens is let's say you're, you're an extra, and then you get upgraded to a principal. That happens a lot. And that's how people become members of the union. That that's how it used to be. Now it's, it's a lot more tightly controlled, but that's how a lot of people used to get their SAG cards. So I received that letter, and I wasn't a member of the SAG union when I did the commercial. Anne: Right. But they treated you so nicely. And then you say, wow, I want that again. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I get that. Pilar: I want to get my hair and makeup done. Anne: I want hair and makeup and yeah. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was really spoiled in Colombia because I mean, I would go to work pretty much every day 'cause I worked four or five days a week. And so I would just go home with my makeup, and I would go out. And so, you know, it had been so long when I was back in the States that it was just nice. I was like, oh wow. This could be really fun to have this on a regular basis. And I decided I wasn't ready to join the union because it was expensive to join it. Anne: So AFTRA it wasn't necessarily costly, but SAG was a different story back then? Pilar: Yes. SAG was different story. Yeah. Yeah. Because the, the initiation dues for AFTRA were so low when I joined, but SAG was, you know, SAG, it was a big deal. And what was going to happen was that then I couldn't do any non-union work. Anne: Exactly. Exactly. Pilar: Then I start getting into voiceover, and then I started doing -- I find that there's a lot of voiceover dubbing going on. So I start going to all these different studios. Anne: So bring me up to date as to what year. Have they merged yet? Because by the way, BOSSes, in case you're not familiar SAG and AFTRA did merge. Pilar: This is like 2010. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Where I start working in voiceover and I start going to the different studios. Anne: And you're a member of both unions. Pilar: No, no, I'm still a member of AFTRA. Anne: Oh, that's right, excuse me, AFTRA but not SAG. Pilar: Yep. I'm not a member of SAG. Anne: Got it. Pilar: And then I don't see anything in the bylaws that I can't do this. So I just keep doing voiceover. I get a little worried because I think, I don't know if this goes against it, but I checked one time with a friend, and they said, no, no, you can do this. And I was like, okay, great, wonderful. And it was literally the only game in town. So then SAG and AFTRA merged. And I believe, I want to say they merged in 2014 around there, maybe 2012, 2014. Anne: I think it was 2014. Pilar: 2014. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. So one day I got a notice saying you are now a member of SAG-AFTRA and I was like, oh, oh, okay. Anne: So, oh no, let's see. I'm just looking at -- formed on March 30, 2012. Look at me. Does that make sense? Pilar: Yeah, because it says here that it -- that they were suspended in 2014, but yeah, you're right, founded 2012. So that means that -- Anne: On my birthday. Pilar: On your birthday. Oh, well, there you go. Anne: March 30 is my birthday. Yeah. Special occasion. Pilar: Is that Pisces? Anne: Aries. Pilar: Aries. Yeah. Okay. Anne: So sorry. There was a little tangent there, BOSSes. Pilar: I'm a Gemini, by the way. Anne: Okay. Pilar: There you go. Anne: There you go. Pilar: There you go. Gemini and Aries voiceovers. So now in the member of the union, and now I started going, uh-oh, this is now getting tricky. What do I do? And that's when I actually decided, I thought, okay, well, let me see about doing audio books, because I was not getting enough work through the dubbing because it doesn't pay very well. Years pass and I am still doing dubbing. Anne: So it got hard to find work, being a member, right, being a member of both unions -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- where you were living to find more work, and that was in Florida. Correct? So it was hard to find work for you? Pilar: Yes. Now, and so it was hard to find work on camera -- Anne: Got it. Pilar: -- because I wasn't really tapped into the voice over industry per se when I started. I was really more focused on on-camera. In Florida there is no union voiceover work 'cause it is a right to work state. There might be, but I didn't see anyone when I was there. I just, I was always going for what was around. And you know, you, you worked with different studios and there might be, you could do commercials and stuff, but they never talked about union per se. Other people might've had different experiences. Anne: I want to kind of bring this back that this was -- I feel like it was a different time. Pilar: It was. Anne: Before the Internet, right? We're still talking before the advent of online anything, right? Pilar: Right. Anne: Where today we have abilities and opportunities everywhere. Because back in the day, right, when you had a voiceover job, you went to a studio and you did that. It wasn't where you could live, you know, in one state and connect to the studio -- well, until the 2000s, right, and connect to a studio in LA. So there's all sorts of interesting technological advancements that have maybe changed the way the landscape of union, non-union jobs' availability. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. Anne: Because now if you were in Florida, you could still, I feel like you'd have opportunities for union jobs because now we have technologies that allow us to connect to studios that are in different states. Pilar: And the pandemic has changed a lot too. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: It's almost like it's brought the world closer because -- Anne: Interesting. Pilar: -- just so much more accessible. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I will tell you something interesting. Voice123 was launched in 2003, but I don't think people knew about that. Anne: I was part of Voice123 when they first, they first started. They were, there was no union jobs posted on there. Pilar: Right. And you didn't go to the Internet to go -- you, you went to a studio to, to get work back then, right? Anne: Back then before, yeah, before all the pay to plays. And before all the online casting sites, exactly. You would go record in a studio. As a matter of fact, when I first started in voiceover, it was not a requirement to have a home studio at all. Pilar: Of course. Anne: That was like a thing that some people did, you know, because they were, you know, tech heads. And as we evolved with a home studio, it's so funny, 'cause it seems like just yesterday, but it wasn't. You know, it's like, wow. Things have really progressed with technology and home studios and, and the landscape of, of how to get work in, in voiceover. And it really ties into this how do you get work if you're in a right to work state? How can you in, and you're part of the union, is there enough work? I've heard that even recently that it's hard to get union work. I mean, where are the opportunities? Pilar: So here's the thing. What I discovered is, which is something that's very -- more people know about it because is basically word of mouth is that you can convert non-union work -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- to union. You can convert it -- Anne: Through a paymaster. Pilar: -- that's not something -- yes, through a paymaster, but it's not something that's necessarily advertised. So, and it all depends on rates. You have to be, you know, you have to be up on your rates. But one of the ways that I found it was through audiobooks. So I was able to, by having the paymaster -- ACX used to have this. They've kind of done away with it now. It's not the same as when I started. Anne: Oh, interesting. Pilar: The pie has been made smaller. Let's put it that way, but you still can do work through ACX. Anne: ACX that's union? Pilar: Yeah. But also get yourself a paymaster. And on certain jobs you can basically ask the client, can we do it this way? And it's possible. It's just, it is a little harder. Anne: From Florida, you move to California. So now you're right in a right to work state to California. And so how does it -- and you're a member of the union. So how does it change when you move to California? Pilar: I actually spoke to members, people who worked at the union multiple times saying to them, I would like to work as a union member, but I can't, not in this state. And they were very aware of this. And they said, yeah, we know. We know that we cannot have competitive pricing in a place like Florida. So they knew exactly what was going on. It was not like news to them because I said, you know, I wanted to be upfront. I said, this was happened to me. I was not a member of the union. I became a member of SAG because of SAG-AFTRA, and I, I have to make a living. So when I came to California, I found that it was a lot easier because the structures were in place much more for union actors. Anne: That makes sense. Pilar: It also helps having the agents that I do, and they are phenomenon. I was just really blessed to get the agents that I have. Anne: I was just going to say, and now with the added agencies that you're able to work with, and the fact that you can work remotely can help now as well to increase the opportunities for union work. Pilar: Yes. Because, Anne, when I lived in Florida, I was working all the time, but I would never have had the opportunity to audition for a McDonald's, for a Geico. Those just were not available to me. So there is something to be said. The union has its pluses and its minuses. But I will say that my decision to come here and work as a, a union actor has probably been the best decision that I ever made. Now, it's not for everyone, but having been on the other side, having been in a right to work state, it makes a huge difference. Anne: Now let's talk about, it's not for everyone. Now, I will say, as someone who is non-union for me, it really is just based on the genres that I get work in, and the genres that I enjoy doing work in. So I would say obviously, if there's anything broadcast, union is definitely a possibility. You do not have to -- if you're a voice talent, you're just coming up in the ranks, you, you do not have to join the union right away. As a matter of fact, I think it behooves you to do some work, figure out where your niche is, and where you're successful at, at obtaining work, and make the decision then, because for me, I do a lot of non-union work. And for me, it, it works. Even though I live in a state that would benefit me if I decided to join the union and really, you know, go for those genres that can pay off. And I would say that the really nice part about it, the advantage from my standpoint, is that you've got somebody that is on your team negotiating for you and making sure that you are getting paid fairly and equitably. Whereas non-union people, that's, a lot of that is, is left to them, to their own devices, to make sure that you're getting paid fairly and equitably, but it's always nice to have somebody on your team fighting for you and having an establishing ground rules. Pilar: I agree. We as actors, we don't always have those negotiating skills, and I'm certainly not as good as I could be. I'm definitely better than I was. And when I was a member of Equity, which I've, I've lapsed it because I'm not doing theater, it really came into play. Because they require that you have minimums, and they're very protective. And all the unions, that is their goal, that is their intent. And so that's something that I really appreciate in a vast sea and all this competition and all these people coming up to you and offering you this and offering you that. And then you find out, oh, whoops, that's a scam. So it really does depend on the genre that you plan to concentrate on. Anne: Sure, yeah. Pilar: And I will tell you this me probably along with a hundred thousand other people have come to LA thinking, oh yeah, I really want to do animation, which I did. And I do. And I've probably done one thing. However, I've done a lot more commercial work, which I wasn't expecting to do because I thought I was going to get to do animation. It's like, that's like the big joke because everyone and their mother wants to do it. And it's -- it's very hard and it's very competitive. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And so I'm constantly improving myself, and I'm constantly working at it. And I'm, you know, I'm doing my homework, like in the other sessions that we've talked about. And, you know, surprisingly for example, I've done some union video games. So that was not something that I was expecting. 'Cause that's much more, they're more dramatic and, and I've been exposed to other kinds of work that I, I had no idea about. I would never have done -- I did a whole campaign last year that I would never have done if I had stayed in Miami. So becoming a union actor just really opens your vistas as to the possibilities. So -- Anne: In specific genres, for sure. Pilar: In -- yes, in specific genres. Obviously in e-learning and narration, that's something that's still, that doesn't conform to the union. So it doesn't make sense to be a union member if you, if that is the bulk of your work. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: So, you know, it, it depends on location and it depends on, on the kind of work that you want to do. I think that the decision to become a union actor is really up to the individual. It's not something that has to be done in a hurry or like, like FOMO, fear of missing out. Anne: I agree. Pilar: It's something that has to be done strategically and -- Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: -- and when you're comfortable, because it will come with its ups and downs. This took me a period of -- it was a very long time. This isn't just something that just happened and I decided, I mean, it was over a very long period of time that I made the decision. And so when you're comfortable, I think that that's when it's the right time to really look at it, because I will say this. It has been amazing the past two and a half years to be part of SAG-AFTRA, really and truly, and I feel so blessed. However, that said, I came into that. I grew into that moment. It wasn't something that I would just say, oh yeah, join the union or, or no, don't join the union. Anne: Exactly. Because you were already a part of it. So you found the ways to make it really work to your advantage I think as well. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I think if you are just a voice talent, and you're living in a right to work state, or you're doing your genres that you're doing the majority of your work and don't necessarily -- they're not necessarily broadcast, you have some time to grow into it or see if it's something that you might want to get involved with. I think that there's definitely some pluses and there's definitely some things that you've got to think about. I know that you do get health benefits, but I think that that's been a, I'm going to say some negotiations happening there, or some changes in the contract in the last couple of years that have not been positive. Pilar: But I will say this, that was one of the main reasons that I wanted to come here, and then they switched it and then they raised the levels. But coming from somebody who was paying over like $1,300 a month for insurance back in Miami -- Anne: For insurance, health insurance. Pilar: Yeah. To basically paying a quarter of that per every three months is kind of amazing. So, you know, one of the things that I learned from other union actors is that they make sure, and they get that out of the way first from the very beginning. So it's like, I'm constantly auditioning. Anne: So in talking about health benefits, you do have to hit a minimum in order to be eligible for those, correct? Pilar: Yes, you do. And that's what went up a couple of years ago. Anne: Right. Pilar: However, once you hit that minimum, it's amazing. And their health package is like nothing I've ever had. And I had really good health benefits, I thought, in Miami, these are better. They also have some great, great-- the SAG-AFTRA foundation has some amazing webinars and they're constantly teaching. And also for older actors, for dancers, they're constantly trying to get the message across of all the other parts of the, of the performing arts industries, which I think is so helpful. Because, you know, let's say you're a dancer and you are just maybe not wanting to work anymore or you can't work anymore. And so they have all sorts of webinars and workshops where you can learn about these things. And so there are some great benefits to SAG-AFTRA, and again, I, I don't regret in the least having done it. It was just a place where I had to get to it. I had to grow into it. Anne: Absolutely. And BOSSes out there again, it's, it's a personal decision. My career based on genres that aren't necessarily helped by, uh, being a union member. I am able to work and support myself. I think that with healthcare, you know, that is something that you have to take care of yourself that isn't taken care of by SAG-AFTRA. But again, with SAG-AFTRA you have to hit a certain amount of money that you're making in order to be eligible to utilize that benefit. So great conversation, Pilar. I think that it's really great that we went through the of it because I just vaguely remember, God, now I know I'm kind of getting old in this industry, that I vaguely remember I was in it before the merger. And you know, how things happen and how things have evolved with how we get work, and how we can now with technology, there's all other avenues to get work for non-union people in terms of with the technologies and casting sites and pay to plays. And as well as how the union, I think, you know, the union is struggling a little bit to keep up with the advances in technology. And that's just any, I think, organization like that has a lot of ground to cover. And I think that that might be one improvement. I've heard people talk about that hopefully the union will get more with the times a little bit. And there was, I think, what was it, a couple of years ago, there were some people going on strike regarding the video games, and the union wants to make sure that their members are protected. So -- Pilar: Yeah, but their heart's in the right place. Anne: Yeah, I agree. Pilar: They're definitely on the right track. Anne: I agree. I absolutely agree. So BOSSes, lots to think about. We covered a lot of ground. Pilar, I totally appreciate your wisdom and your experience with all this, because it's really, really helped me to see how it's evolved over the years and benefits and things that we might want to consider as we continue our journeys in our voiceover careers. So thanks so much for that. Pilar: No, absolutely. Thank you. Anne: Okay, guys, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our new sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to use your voice, make an immediate difference and give back to those communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org and a big, big shout-out to other sponsor, ipDTL, you too can network and communicate like a BOSS like Pilar and I do every week. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. We'll see you next week. Bye. Pilar: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

​​This week, the script is flipped! Pilar is interviewing Anne on her specialty: E-Learning, Corporate Narration, and more. Anne shares her secrets for keeping listeners’ attention during long scripts + tips on how to have an exciting read for corporate copy. Although many consider these scripts dull, Anne argues that it’s the opposite. Putting yourself in the shoes of your favorite teacher or favorite CEO will give you the passion you need to make these jobs soar like a #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Both: Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza (I'm Pilar Uribe --) Anne: Hey! Pilar: And today, I'm so excited to bring back your favorite host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Pilar. Pilar: Yes, Anne? Anne: Pilar, what's happening here? Pilar: Well, I'm taking over hosting duties today. Anne: You are? Pilar: I am. Anne: Um, okay. What, okay, so what are we talking about, Pilar, today? Pilar: Well, I want to know, I want to know about corporate narration. I want to know how you got into the business because that's something that I have not done very much of. My world is all about commercials and video games and auditioning, and I've done audio books, but I don't know very much about corporate narration or e-learning. And I would like to know how you got into that end of the business. Anne: First of all, thank you. I love corporate narration. I love talking about it. Any kind of narration, actually, I'm geekily excited by it. So. Pilar: Geekily excited about it. Anne: Geekily excited about it. Pilar: I will remember that. Anne: And I'm going to say I have corporate experience after I graduated -- for those that don't know, I have a degree in computer graphics engineering. And so when I graduated college, I was an engineer for a bio-mechanical firm and designed hip and knee prosthetics. And that was a really cool job. I really loved that. I did that for six years. If you know me and you know that I do medical narration, you'll know that's one of the reasons why I love doing medical narration. So I did not start off in voiceover all of my life, out of the womb. I did have some corporate experience and loved my experience in the corporate world. I also consulted after I got into education. So I do have a few years of being in the corporate world and working in that space and understanding what corporate culture is. And the cool thing is, is that now that I work for myself, I can work for a lot of different companies and not worry necessarily about being thought of as you know, somebody who just jumps from company to company, which at the time when I was doing that, it was not something that corporations looked fondly upon. It was one of those things where loyalty was everything to the company. And it was nice if you worked for a company for a good amount of time before you jumped ship. That was always kind of left for like, oh, that person's just out for money and not necessarily out for their corporate experience or education. But anyways, I digress into that. But my experience with the corporate world was it's similar in a way of our industry where we're really in competition with one another. Although we don't really say that we are, but we are. And, and in the corporate world, I think in a company, you're fighting for rank within the company. And that to me was it was, it was the way it worked, but it was tiring to me. And for me, I just loved doing the job and I loved sharing my knowledge, which is why I ultimately ended up getting up into education because I love to share. I get excited. I get geekily excited about, you know, my job and I would share things ,and that didn't always work out for me in the corporate world. So doing voiceover in corporate narration is the way that I win. If that's just a simple way to put it is a way that I can win at every single company that I work for without necessarily having to go to a meeting where I'm fighting for, I'm fighting for that. And I just, I love, I understand the culture. I understand how to speak the corporate language. And I think that's an important part of being a voice for a company to be able to elevate their brand. Pilar: Yeah. That's a really good point that you make, because as we've said before, we are not just voice actors, we are the business. And so you have to be able to navigate in the world of corporate speak -- Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: -- in order to survive and to thrive. So let me ask you this, Anne, what was that moment, that moment that triggered you to say and to think, Ooh, I could like this idea of doing voice acting? Anne: Well, I had since moved on from my corporate job into education, but interestingly enough, it was a really interesting transition because I did not go on payroll as a teacher. I went on payroll as a staff member, and then ultimately got my certifications and was able to teach as well, but I wasn't a full-time teacher. And so the cool thing is, is that I got to teach when I wanted, teach all different types of elective classes in technology, which there goes my, my love for technology, as well as work as a staff member and actually learn the technology and direct people. So it was kind of a really great combination of corporate and education at the same time. And I was installing phone systems for other campuses and for non-profit organizations and state and county agencies in the state of New Jersey. And after the installation of the phones, people would always need to record their welcome greeting in the phone tree. And nobody really wanted to do that. And so they would have me do it as part of the job. And that's really where my voiceover started because I loved being able to do the voice, be the phone voice. And people told me I was good at it. So they said, you should think about doing something like this for a career or kind of as a side hustle. And that's where that whole thing began. And I looked into it, I got training, I got a demo, started working part-time, and really fell in love with voiceover. And then after my long career in education, after about 20 years, I really was kind of done with snow in the state of New Jersey where I was, and I was ready for a change. The worst thing for a person loved my personality is to be stagnant and not change and not learn. I'm always wanting to learn new things. I'm always wanting to grow. And I felt like I hadn't grown much in the past few years in my position there. And I just was wanting really badly to try something new. And I thought working for myself and being an entrepreneur and doing something that I loved would be a really cool thing to do. So I took a leap of faith and started working full-time in voiceover and learned a whole lot, I'll tell ya, still learning. So it's one of the things that I truly, truly love. I don't think I would ever work for anybody again, even though we are temporarily working for people when we do voiceover. And that's kind of the thought is that whether you're doing a commercial or you doing a narration, you're working for a company who has a product that you are the voice of, and that you are typically selling that product and elevating that product's brand through your voice. And so you are working for a bit with, for companies and I love the challenge of that. Pilar: Sure. So you, you said something that I just want to reiterate for the VO BOSSes out there, working for myself and an entrepreneur. Because I think we really, we do forget that when we are in the midst of our auditions or we're in the midst of learning, that we are our own little bandstand and we have to go forth into the world as creators, yes, but as business people. And I think that that's really important. So I'd love for you to expand on that a little bit, because I -- Anne: It's very important. Pilar: -- think we just, we get too caught up in this, did I get the audition or didn't I, and it's not just about that. It's not really just about the marketing. It's not just about the auditions. It's not just about paying taxes. It's being a really well-rounded person who is in the service industry. So we are providing a service, and we are business people. Anne: Yeah. I think it's so, so important. I mean, so many times people will say, you know, I really enjoyed doing these character voices, and I really want to get into the voiceover industry. And the first thing I'm always saying is that it really is so much more than just going in a studio and being the voice. You are running in an enterprise, really, you're wearing all the hats. And for me, that challenge is just as exciting as the voiceover challenge, to be quite honest. How can I build my business? How can I grow my business and how can I get this job? And so it becomes, to me, it becomes a challenge. I think all my life, I'm that person who gets excited when I have a challenge, and I want to be able to solve problems. It's might be my, that engineer mind of mine. It all comes together when I think about it. When I was younger, I was teaching my dolls. And then, you know, I got into engineering because I love solving problems. And so it kind of just follows me throughout my whole life, where I feel being an entrepreneur is really just challenges that you're presented with and a place where you can continue to grow and grow and grow if you rise up to those challenges, and you're willing to fail a little bit and learn, and then move in another direction and then try that. So that whole entrepreneur thing I just love, but it's scary. It's really scary. And it's funny because I think that I've grown to the point where this is it, I'm good. You know what I mean? I'm doing well. I feel like I'm successful in everything that I'm doing, but I always want to keep adding and growing more. And it's probably one of the reasons why I probably work a little too much, but I'm looking for that next step and how am I going to get there? And a lot of that still takes courage, and it's still really scary, when you start employing people and shifting control out of your hands, into their hands to help grow the business. I think that's even scarier than when I started. And so I continually am scared and inching my way in this direction or that direction to see if I can have a success. And if I have a success, okay, where's the next step? How can I keep climbing up that mountain? So I don't think I'm ever quite at that place where -- I mean, I feel successful, but I can always grow. Pilar: Yeah. And I think it's important too, that when we are in fear of something, obviously we don't want it to paralyze us. Anne: Right. Pilar: It also can catapult us to the next step. Anne: Yeah, great point. Pilar: So being scared of something is not a bad thing, because then that means that you're taking on more responsibility by employing other people. So that's actually a good thing. And because you continue to grow, and you bring these people on to grow as well. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So when you became an entrepreneur, you were talking about how you started in the business in IVR. So for those people who don't know what that is, it means interactive voice response. So it is the voice that you hear "for English press one. Para español, pressione el número uno." That's how I learned. Anne: Which I would hire you for because you do that so well. If I have to speak that one line of Spanish, it's sad. So I have like, I have a great person I know who could say that prompt for you. Pilar: Okay, done. Anne: Done. Pilar: Done. So you're coming from this background of education and technology. Anne: Yes. Pilar: So what makes you think, ooh, I could do this corporate narration. And how did you branch out then into e-learning for example? What propelled you to move into those areas, and explain the difference as well? Anne: I think for me, they're similar. When I started, it's a large market, the corporate market, because as I always say, there's 30.4 million registered companies in the US, and the, all of those companies have a service or a product that they want to tell the story. And they probably all have a website that has a video or a YouTube channel that requires a voice to explain what that service or product does. And I think because of the sheer size of that market, that's where a lot of the jobs in my early years kind of came from. And actually today, I mean, that's a large majority of what I do. I love the fact that I've had the corporate experience to understand the corporate speak. There is corporate speak pretty much in every piece of corporate copy that you look at. And if you understand that, if you understand where you can start driving a story from, that helps you to voice it more effectively. I think in the beginning, I started doing these jobs for companies that I didn't think much about in the beginning, but as I started to do more and more of them, of course, I wanted to grow and improve. Right? I didn't want to just be a narrator that would read the words off the page. It really became to me like, how can I tell this story? Because I know that this company has a deeper meaning behind it. When I did work out of college, when I worked at the orthopedic company that I started with, I was employee number 206. And as employee number 206. And it's funny how I just remember that to this very day, 206 -- I loved the product, I believed in the company. I love the product. And I was ecstatic that this product that I had a hand in creating would help people to walk again. And for me, oh, that was the passion. And that was when I would go to meetings and we would discuss new products and that sort of thing. And some of the meetings became like hours long, not because we were discussing products, but because people were fighting with their egos to say, I did this product, or this product is not where it should be because of this person. I just got really frustrated, and I'm like, can't we all just love what we're doing and be joyful and share in it? And that was probably a young, naive sort of a way to look at it. But I still remember the joy and the excitement of being a part of creating something that could help people. And that's the attitude that I take with every corporate project, because every person who ever started a company -- look at us, right? We have our own companies. We are entrepreneurs. We believe in the product. We believe that we can be a great voice and make a difference and affect others. Well, so does every company founder. I want to believe in the good of that, right? Companies are founded for good reasons. They have a product that can help someone, that can make their jobs easier, make them feel better about themselves. And that is the principle of what I drive the emotional nuanced read or thought process of a corporate narration. And that's something so very different than just reading a mission statement. It's understanding that I am a part of this company, and this company has a passion for their product and their services that they're putting out there to help people. And if I believe in that, I can voice that effectively. Pilar: That's so important what you just said, Anne, and I think we don't do that enough. I mean, I can speak for myself only -- is when we are, even in an audition -- because getting the job great. Wonderful. But even in audition, if you put yourself in the shoes of, I am part of this company, as I'm describing this product, and I'm fighting for this product to get released instead of, oh, you know, I'm just reading copy -- that will make a difference. That will make a difference in what you're feeling and ultimately what you are communicating through your voice. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Pilar: I think that's super, super important. Yeah. So tell me the cousin, the second or the third cousin or the sister? Anne: The e-learning. Ah, yes. Well, okay. So being in the education, starting off as a small child, as we've mentioned before in the podcast, teaching my dolls and being in education, even though I was on payroll as staff, I still taught classes, and I still taught classes at night. I taught adult continuing ed. I taught college. I was adjunct professor, and I just have a love for sharing, for sharing my knowledge with others. And I think that that again is a big reason as to why I do e-learning quite a bit, and I'll do corporate e-learning because I was a corporate trainer as well as training for students for many, many years. And so the e-learning industry, so again, if you're thinking e-learning, I always divide it up into two different categories. You've got educational e-learning, academic e-learning, and then you've got corporate training, and there are two very different buyers. Understanding the educational market, I know that the academic e-learning it's noble, it's wonderful, it's honorable. And I'm proud to be a part of that or have been a part of that. But unfortunately, budgets, aren't always there. Academic institutions, aren't saying, oh, let me pay Anne Ganguzza $10,000 to voice this curriculum. It's just, they don't have necessarily that type of resource typically. And so it's harder to do that type of e-learning. However, it's, it's very necessary. And I do believe just like in corporate, in e-learning you've got to be a passionate teacher. I mean, if you think back to who your favorite teacher is, what were the qualities of that teacher? You know, I think a lot of times people will tell me they were passionate about their topic. They were excited, they were enthusiastic, and they really, they wanted me to learn. And that's again a type of emotion and nuance that you can put behind any e-learning copy that you read and that you voice. And the other aspect, or the other wing is not just academic e-learning, but corporate learning or corporate training. And the cool thing about corporate training is again, you've got the 30.4 million registered companies that probably train their employees. And if they don't train their employees, they also train or they, most of them do train their employees, right, they also train people on their product. So you've got like kind of an internal facing training as well as an external facing training that they do on their products. And so again, that is a huge, huge market. And I think that for that market, again, you've got to be that great teacher. It can't be that person that is reading the material. However, that's what we've done, a lot of us for many, many years is simply read academic material. And the way I look at it is some people will pay for that. Nobody will not pay you for reading the material, but I think there's other types of clients that will pay you for a really engaged read as a great teacher. You've got to keep people entertained for longer than a minute, right? That's one of the biggest differences between commercial or promo. I mean, you're doing this for more than a minute. And with today's attention spans, you have to really work hard to keep people's attention and focus, because there's so many distractions like, oh, look it, I just got it. Just got a text. Oh. And so your voice has to be that you like the Pied Piper of, of e-learning. Your voice has to be audibly raised and in the ear of your listener, and you need to make it easy and engaging for them to learn from you. Pilar: Yeah. And so important. What you're saying about being in the moment while you're reading because -- Anne: Yes, absolutely. Pilar: -- you are providing as the voice over actor, you are providing a service to the person who's listening because they are being paid to learn. So it behooves them to learn from what you're saying. So you have to really engage the person who's on the other side of those headphones, you know, that that's listening to you because you want them to do better because that's basically why you're there in the first place. And so going back to that whole idea of being part of the company, part of the training, I think helps a lot when you're in the, the reading of the copy. Anne: And that's where the acting comes in too, right? Because you can't just read the words off the page. You're the one that's making them come alive. So you need to kind of understand what those words are and to be able to tell the story. And there's a story in corporate narration, as much as there's a story in teaching, right? We learn through stories, easiest through stories. And so even if the corporate copy or the e-learning copy doesn't necessarily tell a story directly, there's an underlying introduction, main topic, topic switch, crescendo, I always call it a crescendo, a learning moment, right. where the light bulb goes off, and then it's wrapped up in a nice little conclusion. So every piece of copy that's written like that, you have to dissect the copy and understand those moments, understand those crescendos, understand the purpose, the introduction, the wrap-up so that you can tell that story effectively. It's so much more than just reading. It's so much more than that. Pilar: It's like a little three act play. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Pilar: I mean, it goes back to Chekov, it goes back to Shakespeare. I mean, you're basically telling a story. It's not about the words. It's about how effectively can you tell this story so the person on the other end goes, oh, okay, that person's making a great point and will retain that at information. Anne: And I'm so passionate about that. It's interesting that I have people who just never thought of it that way. And, and the thing of it is, is I'm going to be real here. I think probably everyone does narration, whether they admit it or not. It's the non-glamorous part of voiceover or it's always been perceived as, oh yeah. And I also do e-learning or I also do a little bit of narration, but the big draw is the, I'm the voice of this game or this commercial. And I think that's amazing. That's just, I'm not discounting any of that. And that's where I think most people, when they get into voiceover, that's the stars in their eyes, kind of, you know, Hollywood -- Pilar: The red carpet experience. Anne: It's the Hollywood experience of a voiceover, but I'll tell you what, the narration and the e-learning, and that's, that's like, I call it like the bread and butter that pays the bills in the meantime. And so there are so many people I think that can elevate their narration game or their e-learning game if they choose to, because we can all be better storytellers. We can all improve. I mean, all of our lives, it's just, it's a mission for me as a, as a lifelong learner -- I think teachers are always lifelong learners because a lot of times they're asking you to teach something that you don't necessarily know. So for me, especially with technology, it was always like, well, learn it by the seat of my pants and then teach it. Pilar: And that's how you would retain it. That's how, that's the best way to retain it. Anne: And that's how you learn, right, teach -- Pilar: Teach someone else. Anne: Yeah, exactly. It's one of the ways you learn, but it's an amazing thing to be able to share in joy your knowledge, whether you're sharing in the passion of a product, of a company as a part of that company, as a part of a greater whole to help people. And again, if you hold that emotion in your heart, as you're telling a corporate story, it does wonders for the effectiveness of it. And the same thing with teaching, the same thing with e-learning. And they're both huge, huge markets in this industry. And I think everyone, everyone needs to take the narration maybe more seriously than just, oh, let me just prettily read these words. I mean, I was always the teacher that said, hey, look, I am not going to say that you won't get paid to read those words pretty. I would never say that. However, if you want to go from good to great or amazing and really capture your audience, we can always learn. We can always learn to tell the story better. Pilar: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you heard it here first. This is the e-learning and corporate narration guru you have been listening to, Anne Ganguzza. I want to do my demo with you now, so, there you go. Anne: Pilar. Thank you. First of all, thanks so much for interviewing me. I mean, I've never had the tables turned on me like that. So thank you for being the first -- and talking with me about something that I clearly love. Pilar: Well, was it, to me, it's really evident how passionate you are and it makes me excited. It makes me want to go out and move that muscle, you know? Because I do the short sprinting, and, and e-learning and corporate narration they're marathons. That's the marathon. So you have to learn the pace yourself, and that's really important to have as a skill. Anne: Well, thank you, Pilar, really. I'm always happy to share my passion as a coach, as a voice artist, as a podcast host. Thanks so much for talking to me about it. This just flew by actually. Pilar: And thanks for letting me interview you. This was fun. Not like you had a choice, right? Anne: Wait, now I have to end the podcast by saying, I want to give a huge shout-out because I like to have a huge impact, and I like to make a difference. You can also make a difference, and if you've ever wanted to donate to a cause that's close to your heart and make a difference, you can do so. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org and you too can make a difference. Also great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love talking to my BOSSes and my BOSS, Pilar, and Pilar, thank you for talking to me. Um, you guys can find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Pilar: Ciao, ciao. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

After holding the first ever #VOBOSS Bilingual Audition Challenge, Anne & Pilar welcome the winners onto the show. Joe Lewis, Milena Benefiel, and Ramesh Mahtani share the process behind their winning entry, what stood out to Anne & Pilar when judging the contest as well as what it means to be a bilingual voice talent in today’s industry. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey, hey. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today we have a very, very special episode planned for you. Not only am I here with my awesome special guest co-host Pilar Uribe -- woohoo Pilar! Pilar: Hi, Anne. Anne: Thanks for being here. We are so honored to be here with our VO BOSS bilingual audition challenge winners. So a huge welcome to our English audition winner, Joe Lewis. Yay! Joe: Hello. Ramesh: Hello, Joe. Anne: And our Spanish audition winner -- Pilar: Milena Benefiel. Anne: Yay! Hey Milena. Milena: Hi. Anne: And then our best English and Spanish audition, Ramesh Mahtani. Yay! So first of all, congratulations, everybody, on your wins. Joe: Thank you. Milena: Thank you, gracias. Ramesh: Gracias. Anne: It's very exciting. For those BOSSes that are just joining us and have not joined us before now, Pilar and I ran a bilingual audition challenge contest, which featured a Toyota commercial in both English and Spanish. And this was about, I'm gonna say, three to four weeks ago, and we had a number of submissions. I think it was over what, Pilar, like 130 or something like that? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Or close to 130. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And so first of all, everybody did a wonderful job, but we are so, so incredibly excited to have the winners with us today to talk about being bilingual in the industry today and what it takes. So let's start with our English winner, Mr. Joe Lewis. Yay, Joe. Joe, tell us a little bit about yourself and then I wanna play your winning audition. Joe: Okay. Well thank you for having me here. First of all, it's great to be with you all. I am a bilingual voiceover and voice actor, born in the US, Spanish father, American mother. And basically I've been back and forth in the States to Spain and from Spain to the States at different points of my life. And it's been a trip or several trips. You learn to adapt where you are and you do as the Romans do. And you learn a lot of stuff because you have to leverage two cultures, two languages. It's a thing. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, let's play your winning audition. And I wanna tell you a little bit about the specs. Our specs indicated that the voice should be confident, knowledgeable, optimistic, never take themselves too seriously, but at the same time, never come off as sarcastic either, warm human down to earth, playful spontaneous, conversational, relatable, and above all else, nothing that is typical commercial sounding, movie trailer, or announcery at all. So. Milena: All the things, all the things. Anne: All the things. Pilar: In other words, the kitchen sink. Anne: All the things. Totally. And I want to give a big shout out to the queen bee herself, Liz Atherton, and CastVoices for her sponsoring this contest and offering our winners a year pro membership to CastVoices. You guys, castvoices.com, go and get yourself an account. Liz is amazing and always has the voice talents' backs. I'll tell you what, she's amazing. So thank you Liz for that. So let's go ahead and play the warm, human, down to earth, playful, not typical commercial sounding, movie trailer or announcery English winning submission by Joe. Here we go. Joe: Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: I love it. Joe: Thank you. Anne: I think that that really took every single spec into consideration. Joe, did you have any particular strategy when you were doing this audition or what is it that you do to prepare for an audition? Because we had so many submissions, but yours just kind of really stood out from the get-go. Joe: Well, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it. As far as strategy, if it's automotive, I take it extra seriously because it's a big genre. So no matter what it is, even if it's a dealership, you know, it could turn into a long-term gig. So you take it seriously. It's always a challenge, uh, to see if it's a soft sell or if it's a harder sell, more promotional. At the same time, as you say, there's lot to consider in the styles or the trends that we work with today, uh, which are very different from 10, 15, 20 years ago. And that's as far as in general or as far as English. As far as Spanish, obviously my origin is of Castilian Spanish, uh, from Spain. So knowing that this would be for the American market, I tried to modulate that and go to a more neutral read and, and taking the specs into consideration as much as I could and have fun, have fun with it. Anne: Yeah. I think that's so important that you have fun with it. Pilar, comments about why we love Joe so much. Pilar: Listening to it again, I think what, what I really liked about it, this is probably not the right word. It wasn't folksy, but I really felt like I was listening to you, and I was listening to a real person rather than somebody reading it. Anne: Yeah, I agree. Pilar: Like, and just the small pauses, the little giggle -- there were some amazing entries, but what I found so interesting about yours was that you had this attitude from the beginning. You weren't serious, and then you went to the punchline. You had this sort of upbeat throughout the entire read. That's what really stood out for me. Anne: Yeah. Really, really warm smile, I think overall. Joe: Thank you so much. Anne: I just felt like. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: I felt like we were just longtime friends, which we are, but listening to, I felt like we were, and it really, really stood out from the beginning. So congratulations, Joe, again -- Joe: Thank you so much. Anne: -- on that. Joe: I appreciate it. Anne: So onto our winner in the Spanish division, Milena. Milena: Hi. Anne: Tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're located and your VO journey so far. Milena: All right. Well Saludos, hola, hi. Milena Benefiel. I am currently located in Orlando, well, near Orlando, Florida. I am the first generation born here in the US. Both of my parents came over from Cartagena, Colombia, woohoo and they insisted that I learned Spanish as a child, and I never understood why. Why would I ever need this other language? And look at me now, right? My background was actually in television. I worked part-time as a TV host for a Telemundo affiliate in Spanish and did a lot of commercial acting while also being an ER nurse and ICU nurse. I came from entrepreneurial parents who had multiple careers, multiple jobs, 'cause they had to, right, coming from another country. So I don't know how to not have too much on my plate. So this was kind of my side hustle. And after COVID I, I took it from part-time to full-time. I, I was kind of burnt out in the hospital, and yeah, I had the ability to go from sounding very middle America English, as you can hear in my, in my accent to speaking [Spanish] speaking in Spanish that's very neutral. It kind of like people are like, are you Colombian or Cuban or from where? So I've been very fortunate in that that I've been able to provide both sides for my clients. So it's been a really fun journey. Ramesh: Super. Anne: Yeah. Let's have a listen to the winning entry. Here we go. Milena: Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Yay! Ramesh: Super. Anne: Congratulations again, such a wonderful, warm sound. That's what I really got. And I love how, when we said have fun with this or somebody that doesn't take themselves too seriously, I really felt that in the places where you could -- it opened up to have fun, the more conversational like, "oops, I think my burrito's done." I love the way that you guys brought life to that and brought fun to that that wasn't even as expected. Pilar, your thoughts, Pilar: You had me from the beginning Milena. This was to me displayed so much warmth and reassurance. I felt like when I listen to it, you're taking me by the hand, and you're reassuring me as a consumer that it's gonna be okay. And it's like, oh yeah, I'll do whatever she says. Milena: Wow. PIlar: So that's what I got from this read. It was really, yeah, it was, it was really good read. You just, you got me. Milena: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. I am so grateful for that feedback. That's kind of my MO when it comes to anything that I do in VO. I just, I, I wanna be warm and caring and reassuring. That's kind of my, my thing. So that you heard that feels so good because it makes me feel like, wow, okay. I'm, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. So thank you so much. Anne: I wanna kind of tag on to what Pilar said. Like for me, I do not speak Spanish, but I could hear the story. If I listen, I could hear your story in there. And when we talk about trusting Toyota, I felt that, and I really felt that you took the words beyond just what was on the page, and really you were in the scene. And like I said, for me to not even speak Spanish but to listen and to be able to hear your storytelling, I thought that that was, that was just really wonderful. So yeah. Milena: Wow. Thank you so much. Such a huge compliment from two women that I admire very much. So this is a very surreal moment for me. So thank you so much. Anne: well deserved. Well deserved. Milena: Thank you. Anne: Okay. So onto our English Spanish combination winner. Ramesh Mahtani yay. Congratulations. Ramesh, tell us a little bit -- Ramesh: Well, thank you very much. Anne: Yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey. Ramesh: Yeah, well, I suppose like most of us over here, very, very varied background. I mean, I was born in Karachi, Pakistan to Indian parents who perhaps were a bit disgruntled with the way things were going out over there, and they decided to move to the Canary Islands. Why, I have no idea, but that takes me back to when I was about four. So I came over here to the islands, speaking a combination of Sindi, of Hindi, of Urdu. Of course I had to learn Spanish rather quickly. And my parents always wanted me to speak English because they knew that English is the lingua franca, and you wouldn't get anywhere in the world without it. So I grew up in an American school over here in the canaries, and I was shipped off to a horrible concentration camp sort of boarding school in England, which was a nightmare. Um, I would spend four long miserable years there, which is I suppose, where I picked up the sort of vestige of an English accent. And then I went to America to do my university degree, which was a lot of fun. And I saw what the real world was like. And I didn't, I suppose, switch on to the American accent because wherever I spoke to were like, oh my God, your accent's so cool. Where are you from? Well, I'm originally from -- Oh my God. Keep on speaking. We just love your accent. So, um, no, I didn't pick up an American accent, I suppose. I just veered towards what, what I call international or neutral. So that's my story. And in voice, I I've always played around with my voice. I love switching accents between -- I speak to my parents with a bit of an -- well, my mom. My father passed away -- with an Indian accent. So it changes depending who I talk to, if it is very strong Indian community, well, it becomes Indian, otherwise it's what I speak now. And then of course, in Spanish and English and French and all these sort of, you know, weird voices going on in my head, it was but natural that I followed a voice over career. So that's what brings me here today, basically. Anne: Wow. Well now you did something interesting with your auditions. You did two takes for both English and Spanish. And so one of the things that stood out to Pilar and I were the fact that you did two different takes for each. And so let's go ahead and play now. Um, I'm gonna click on this one. I'm not sure if this is the English or the Spanish. So hang on one second because the name is, is long. So it's kind of running off my little table here. Ramesh: Sure. Anne: It could be either one. Let's put it that way. There we go. Ramesh: Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: I love it. I wanna just make some comments before we played your Spanish entry. I thought, first of all, you had two completely different takes, and now I understand where the accent came from because you were living in the UK. So I get that now. I was not aware of that, but I really loved it because it really wasn't something that felt to me like it was obviously forced or something that wasn't natural to you. And the fact that you did completely different reads shows just some tremendous acting ability, which I think is any good casting director that can hear that knows immediately that they would be able to direct you to do anything really. And so that was, I thought was really strong about your English entry. And I also liked you had a different reaction and a different emotion about the burrito, which stood out to me, even though it was like a nuanced change. You're like, oh I think my burrito's done. Or Ooh, I think my burrito's done. It really lent a lot to the different reads and the different aspects and the showcasing of your acting abilities. Pilar. Pilar: Yeah. I felt like you were talking to two different people in the two different reads and that was really significant. And it's funny because I didn't realize it, but they were two different accents, and I was like, they sounds so different, and it's, it's like, oh yeah, duh, because he's so versatile. But that also colored the read because one was a little bit more business-like. The other one was a little bit sort of more off the cuff, more warm. And so it was really interesting to see them together, but they are very different reads, so yeah, that's great. Ramesh: Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I suppose one of the underlying elements is that I try and make sure that I'm not trying to sell in this case, sell the car, but just say, tell the story, uh, as something that we will often talk about in voiceover direction. As soon as it sounds sort of salesy, you know, you're going the wrong direction. So spice it up, you know, conjure up some magic, just make it sound as if as Pilar said, you know, you're just basically off the cuff having a conversation with someone, without sell, buy this car sort of thing, you know, which we definitely do not want to go there. Anne: And you know, I don't know if you guys noticed, but in the middle of that script, the sentences were a little bit long. You know how we always get a script and if it's a really lovely, wonderfully written script, we're like, oh yes, it's so easy to voice. We gave you something specifically that may not have been so easy to voice in navigating a long sentence. So. Ramesh: Ah, you did it purposely. Anne: Yeah. All of you handled that so well, so kudos on that. I mean, I'm used to doing that because you do a lot of long format narration and coaching my students, there's always unwieldy sentences. And to make it sound truly conversational and you know, as if you're talking to one person or talking to us, you gotta know your rhythm, you gotta kind of know, you gotta put yourself in the scene and understand where those pauses, where the commas are, even if they don't exist. Ramesh: Yeah. I realize, I thought, my gosh, who's written this, because it is, there was a part where it got really wordy and thought, you know, you have to navigate that. Pilar: Those were the traps and none of you fell into it. Anne: Yes. You know, we are teachers . Exactly. Yes. Always a teacher, just saying so, so congratulations. All right. So let's play, uh, the Spanish entry, which again, you did two reads, which were different. So here we go. Ramesh: Soy Ramesh Mahtani. Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Anne: Yay. Ramesh: I suppose I'll just caveat, uh, the accent there. I mean like Joe, I live in Spain and sometimes if my client's in mainland Spain, I would do a Castilian accent, but I put on a sort of neutral and general Latin American accent for those, which is similar to the Canarian accent. Anne: Yeah. I was gonna just ask you about that. And one thing that I wanted to point out, which I thought was super strategic, because you did the two takes, you immediately went into your second take to call the attention of like -- Pilar and I listened like, oh my gosh, I think it took us a weekend, right, at least, uh, one after the other one after the other. Pilar: Several times too. Anne: Exactly. And the fact that even though, I didn't know, you were having two takes immediately going into that second take was like brilliant because I didn't stop listening. You know, I was just getting ready. Okay. He's finished -- oh no, here he comes with the next one, which I thought was really strategic. And I think if I know you, Ramesh, that was on purpose Ramesh: Would it have been the alternative to have said, take one? Pilar: No. Most people leave a space. Anne: A lot of space. Yeah. Pilar: You don't let the listener down for a second. There's no lag time. Ramesh: Right. Pilar: And that is brilliant. I mean, I'm using that in my auditions now as well. Ramesh: Okay. I've I've always done it that way. Anne: That's smart. Ramesh: I, I seldom send off an audition unless I do two. Pilar: It's wonderful. Ramesh: I usually always do two takes. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: And I just do them back to back. So as you said, so they don't have a chance to hit the next button. Yeah. Milena: I typically call it out in my slate if I'm going, do two takes, which -- Anne: And that's good too. Milena: -- for most auditions I would do two. Yeah. But I like this. You give them no choice. Give 'em no choice. Anne: Right, right. Just go right into it. I love it. And you went right into that second character too, which I thought was great for that. Now did you have a strategy English versus Spanish? I know you just mentioned that you did more of a neutral Spanish. What was your strategy for those two different reads? Ramesh: For the two Spanish reads? Anne: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Ramesh: Um, just, just variation really. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: I mean, I just, I would loathe for them to sound similar so the director would've said, ah, you know, this guy's obviously reading the same thing twice in the same way. I, I just do not wanna fall in that trap. So whatever I could do to spice it up or color it to just make them sound different and believable, relatable and conversational, keeping away from the salesy. Anne: Sure. So then let me ask you what's happening in your brain? What's happening? What's the process? Are you putting yourself in a different scene maybe? Ramesh: I've got a different audience and I'm somebody else. Anne: Okay. Ramesh: So either I'm a young sort of rich, youthful sort of business dude, or I'm an older person just wanting to sort of have a nice car. So I, my whole persona changes, maybe it helps being a Gemini. I could switch from one, from one personality to the other, but yeah, definitely. I've gotta change the audience and change the speaker. Both of them. Anne: Oh good. That's a really good tip. I like that. I've always changed the scene, but not necessarily who I was, because I always wanna be conversational and, and tell this story and, and not be salesy as well, but I never thought about changing, let's say I'm a younger Anne, which that would be nice. I like that. Milena: Your voice can be as young as you wanna be. Anne: That's it. There you go. Yeah. I like that. Ramesh: I guess ever since I was a young kid and, and having been moved around so many different places, I perhaps, and this is for something very personal and intimate, and I, and now that it comes up in context, I don't mind sharing it, but I've, I've often struggled to have a proper identity as an -- sometimes I don't even know who I am because I've had to switch and I do often switch, you know, when I speak, as I said, I speak to my mom, I speak to in an Indian sort of way. I speak to the local Canarian dudes out in the street and become totalmente canario; it's a totally different accent. So I'm always switching, switching, switching, switching in the end, to think, you know, oh my gosh, existential crisis, you know, who am I? Anne: That's a, that's really an interesting point. Yeah. Joe: You're a chameleon, Ramesh. Ramesh: I'm a bit of a chameleon. Anne: Absolutely. Ramesh: I'm not Spanish and I'm not English, you know? So it's really weird. Anne: That's very interesting. I always equate that, and again, I'll get maybe a little into it, but I grew up with three brothers. And so being the only girl in the family, I didn't have to share necessarily, but I also didn't have like a sister to kind of like play dolls with or whatever I was gonna be doing. Milena: Same. Anne: So I got really good at my imagination. Ramesh: Yeah. Anne: And playing with my dolls and teaching and talking to them and really putting myself in different scenes with them. And I think that carries through the adulthood. Right, Milena, you mentioned the same thing? Milena: Oh yeah, absolutely. I didn't have a sister growing up. And I also just think like with my parents having the multiple jobs, they were both performers. My whole life has been a performance, and I kind of do the same in my two takes. I go into my lower register in that warm, buttery, soft, like my first take will be -- or exactly what the specs ask for, I'll give you in the first take, and then the next one, I'll kick it up to a little bit of a higher pitch, make myself a little bit younger and I'll be a little wackier, like a little more fun, a little more conversational, and just get a little more crazy with it. Just to add some adlibs and some different things too, just for range. Anne: I think that's great. Do you have more than two personas? I always have two in my pocket, but do you spend time developing, let's say, a third read or a third persona that can give you a different read? I think that's good for the artist in us. Joe: I mean, I, what captivated me about this piece was the invitation to do effects. You don't usually see that in copy, so I thought that was like, ooh, this is gonna be fun. Anne: Yeah. Joe: And then I tried to add layers, do several takes and sort of warm up and then listen to them and see if I can be sprinkling, uh, or adding something. But I do agree that when you kick into another language, it's another dimension of tools and, and tricks that you have. I wasn't privileged to have brothers or sisters. So being lucky enough to grow up with a, a parent of either side, you know, you, you kind of take it for granted when you're a kid, and then you, you grow up and you're like, wow, this is pretty powerful to switch on and off, switch the languages, you know, with all the cultural and the contextual things that come along with each particular one. Totally there with Ramesh on the strange dichotomy that happens and not really knowing who you are or when it's the, uh, what secret service did you say you worked for again? Pilar: No, comment. Milena: I love how he's silent. He's like -- Joe: He's a pro. Milena: If I tell you I'll have to kill you. Ramesh: Well, sorry. Did I, did I talk about a secret service? Joe: I was asking you what secret service you work for, my friend. Anne: I love it. Milena: Crickets, crickets. Anne: Crickets. Secret service. Pilar: Speaking of which, that was one of the things that really struck me about Ramesh's Spanish read is that I heard someone speaking in Spanish with the Spanish language rhythms rather than a translation. And that to me was so important because that not being your first language, and I think that that's really important because like Milena, I mean, I was born in this country, but my parents spoke to me for the first five years of my life in Spanish, but it's technically not the language that, you know, I speak English all the time. So there's something, there's always that strange sort of divide. Like who are you? Are you this? Are you that? And what I really liked about your read was that it was like, I was listening to a Spanish person speaking, not a translation. And that's so important. Everyone is always so concerned with the accent. That really kind of falls by the wayside. Because if you believe in what you're saying, and it has to do with acting, if you're really acting it, how well you speak or how much of an accent you have doesn't really matter. It all falls by the wayside. So that's what to me, what made a very successful bilingual audition. And that's why we picked you, one of the reasons why we picked you as the bilingual audition winner. Ramesh: Oh, thank you. I'm privileged. Thank you very much. Anne: And again, I'll just kind of tack onto what Pilar was saying is both of the Spanish versions of your audition, I could hear the story that you were telling. And again, I listened very carefully, especially in the unwieldy sentences, because that's what I do every day with my students. I'm working on these crazy, long format narration scripts that aren't always written well. And so I would really be listening carefully throughout all the entries for that navigation. And I still felt the story. I felt the rhythm, and I felt the words that needed to come be a little more present in my ear that were important, like the brand name, the fact that you trust Toyota on all of your reads. Believe it or not, listening to all of the entries, that was kind of a key I was listening for, to trust Toyota. And I wanna feel that trust as opposed to trust Toyota. And I really wanted to feel that little nuance of emotion or trust. And I think every single one of you in every one of your English and Spanish gave me that trust feeling and that warm feeling and that kind of having fun with it, especially at the end, and the beeps too. I mean, I like the fact that we gave this script out because of the beep beep and what people did with the beep beep was really telltale, especially in the beginning, if you did something that maybe wasn't a traditional beep beep or you had fun with it, or you just kind of smiled at yourself. I think Joe, you're, right off the bat, you're kind of chuckling a little bit and it just was so warm and I fell in love with that from the beginning and all of your interpretations of the beeping at the front end of that and the back end of that, I loved it. You know, you had fun with it like we asked in the specs. Joe: Well, I was just gonna say Road Runner, you know, I mean, it was irresistible to me. It was irresistible. Ramesh: Absolutely, absolutely. Milena: Yes, that's exactly what I pictured in my head too. Ramesh: Yeah. Milena: That's funny. Ramesh: I think after doing this for, I mean, you know, you're speaking to people who are super professionals. I have great respect for Joe and Milena and Pilar and yourself, Anne, of course. I mean, when you listen to somebody who's just started off and doesn't have much training, that's when you realize, oh my gosh, this is a poorly done audition. But after a while it just becomes intuitive, I think, plus the script lend itself, the beeps, the mic proximity that you can, the burrito whole thing. I mean, what does the burrito have to do with the car sale, for God's sake? So you can do so much with that. You know, you can just, as you said, have fun and the more imagination you have, and the more years of experience you have tucked under your belt, you can do crazy things within parameters, of course. I often don't overthink it because that's usually when it doesn't usually work. It's usually my first and my third take, which are good. Uh, the first one, because I'm just off the bat, I'm fresh and I'm just being really spontaneous. The second seems to be similar to the first ,and the third, usually I've had a bit more time to imagine nuances, and those come out quite magically. So, but yeah, the script was nice. It lent itself to, to having fun and being creative. Milena: I completely agree with that, the instincts, I know Anne, you had asked earlier, you know, what was your method? How did you attack this script? How did we look at the script? And I actually will do a read prior to even reading the specs, just to get my natural inclination of like, okay, I'm looking at the script without overthinking it. Let me just do a read. And then of course looking at the specs, and then kind of picking apart, you know, I listened back to my read and picking apart, what words do we wanna highlight? Like you said, trust, right? The brand, faster and safely, getting there fast and safely. Those are important things, right? Joe: Exactly. Milena: So then I go through with it, but I completely agree with Ramesh, it typically is my first read. And then maybe my third or my fourth. The second one always sounds like the first one, or it's like, so off the wall that it's like, why did I go totally left field on that one? But yeah. I completely agree with you, when you just go with those once you've been doing it for a while, when you try to be someone you're not, it's not authentic. Ramesh: Exactly. Milena: And you can hear it in your read. Joe: Yeah. By family tradition, my parents came from the academic and the publishing world. So script analysis, I put at the top of the list, you know, the top three, because the burrito for example was what invited me not to do it in Castilian. And that was my choice. I thought it was great that you did two takes of each, Ramesh. I, I shied away from the Castilian because I just wanted to have a burrito and, and that's Mexican, and I just -- and it's international by now., yes, but it's traditionally and originally Mexican. And I wanted, I wanted to go there. If you told any person in Spain, you know, burrito just stand alone, they might not get it. If it's contextual, they'll be, oh yeah, yeah, Taco Bell, you know, whatever, but, or Mexican restaurant, but that's, that's the reason I, I shied away from Castilian and I, I made an attempt at my best neutral Spanish. Milena: I had no choice. I don't do Castilian You don't wanna hear me trying to do Castilian accent. Anne: So that brings an interesting question, which I had asked of Pilar early on in our series, about when specs come in for Spanish, is there a strategy? Are specs clear? Do you sometimes have to say, well, is there a particular dialect that you're looking for? What do you guys do? Joe: First and foremost is the market. What market is it hitting? Because if it's a state, it's gonna be 99.9% neutral Spanish. It's very exceptional to do Castilian. I've spent many years living in Spain, and sometimes they call me to do Spanish and Catalan. And for many years they wanted an American accent, even though I don't really have one when I speak normally. So I, I had to kind of impose, impose an accent like this or something like that. You know, you know what I'm saying? Milena: I love it. Being in the US, I think it's kind of less of a question for me. I know Ramesh and Joe are overseas. For me here in the US, typically my specs are always gonna say either neutral Spanish or Latam Spanish, Latin American Spanish. That's 99%. I think I have gotten a couple auditions that have asked for Catalan or Castilian Spanish. And it's very rare, but I am pretty upfront with them that I'm like, you're not gonna be happy with my read, if you want me to try to pull one of those off. But yeah, I think for me over here in the States, it's almost always, it's gonna be neutral or, or Latin American Spanish, which is what I do. And I can put a little bit more of that Paisa, you know, Colombian accent on it, if they're asking specifically for Latin American, but yeah. Ramesh: I've had a very strange situation with many of my castings in Spanish. I've booked jobs. And then they come to me and say, you're not Spanish, are you? I said, they say, you sound very Spanish, but by your name, we had doubts. And a few times they're, they're brave enough to say that. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: They're like, your name sounds Indian or Pakistani. I'm like, well, it is. What you want do about it? Milena: What you want? Ramesh: You bookedme. You, you booked me, you liked my audition, but are you just curious? You just wanna start a conversation over here? And, and I struggle with that. And the same thing with my English, like, oh, this guy's Indian. He probably, he doesn't have a proper English accent. I'm like, well, so I stopped trying to be very British at one point, and I said, well, I'm international English. I mean, what can I say? Yes, I'm Indian. I can't, I could change my name. And at one point I tried to go as Robert Martin, but I thought it just sucks. Joe: No, you should be Pepe Mahtani. Ramesh: Pepe Mahtani de las islas canarias... so, yeah. So that's another sort of strange one, but like Joe's, But I mean, I also do a lot of times they, they ask you to do a span with the English accent. So you have to do what they, what the client wants and you hope they're happy. Joe: You have to. You have to. Ramesh: You have to. Pilar: You have to. Ramesh: Yes. Milena: Oh my goodness. Ramesh: Without a doubt. Milena: Ramesh, that did strike me. Remember, our first conversation. That's what I said. I said, I'm completely blown away. As soon as I saw your name, I was like, well, he's not Spanish or American. [indistinct] Ramesh: No, I totally understandable, yeah. It's like, where are you from? [speaking Spanish] Milena: Cómo puede ser, pero no entiendo. [banter in Spanish] Joe: For me, it's the same, Joe Lewis. Right? You know, talking in Spanish, like, come on. This is -- Pilar: You could be José Luís. Joe: Ridiculous, ain't it? Milena: José Luís. Joe: José Luís, exacto. Ramesh: Whenever I speak to Joe, whenever I, the first thing I tell him, when we get on the phone is like, hello, Mr. Joe Lew-is. . Joe: I try to do my best Southeast Asian for Ramesh because I love him so much. Ramesh: Listen, all my white friends who try and do an Indian accent are just terrible at it. You guys suck big eggs because you cannot do an Indian accent. Even Mr. Peter Sellers, who I have great respect for in the movie "The Party," he also did not pull out a decent Indian accent. I'm sorry. It's crap. Joe: A thousand apologies. But I do -- I do this with, with love. I do this with love. I promise you. Ramesh: Joke around. Anne: Oh my goodness. Ramesh: You can joke around because we are good friends, but your Indian accent, I'm sorry, is not very convincing. Joe: Totally. Totally agreed. Anne: Oh my goodness. Well, you guys -- Milena: Friends don't let friends go around with terrible accents. Anne: There you go. There you go. Joe: Precisely. Anne: So I wanna ask each of you, what would be your best tip? Like how do you market yourself as -- like people that are coming in to the industry now, if they're bilingual, what best tips can you give us to market yourself as a bilingual voice talent? Joe: I've spent many years trying to equate both. I have them at the same level, both languages. It was a thing of responsibility. That's a big R word, responsibility. And this was instilled through my parents directly and indirectly. So I was very lucky with that. It all went astray when, uh, a number of years ago, I started to get requests from clients to do accents that are not my natural accents. Oh, I wait, are you sure? I'm like, yes, no, please. And then you do it and they love it. And like, Hmm, well, maybe there's something here. Maybe, maybe it's a thing. So you can never sleep in your laurels. You can never get too comfortable. You can never get too overconfident because it's like music. I come from music. It's ultimately unattainable. You're not gonna finish it. Just keep on pumping. That's what you can do. That's my best advice. Keep on pumping. Ramesh: 100%. Milena: I guess before this interview, we talked about this a little bit. I actually shied away from doing Spanish when I first started, despite me literally being on Telemundo, right? like having my own segment in Spanish. I always was a little bit insecure about my Spanish, and I would get requests to do things both English and Spanish, and producers kept telling me like, you've got something here. You've gotta do -- when you can offer both sides, it's more efficient. It's mutually beneficial for you and the client. You've really gotta push this. And I did. So I try to -- and I'm trying to get better at it -- I try to, when I'm posting things, say to social media, or, you know, whenever I'm doing things, I'm trying to do more showing the spots that I do in English and in Spanish so that people can see both sides, especially right now. There's this huge shift in the last few years here, that is this huge push for diversity, huge push for bilingualism, especially with Spanish in the US. And I don't know if you guys are seeing things over there too, or internationally, 'cause of course I just know here in the US, but there's this really big push. So I've been very, very fortunate in that everyone that I connect with, as soon as I mention that I'm bilingual, they then mention that to somebody else. So my biggest tip would be let people know. Don't do what I did for the first, you know, five years and shy away from that. Practice it. And if you don't feel as confident in that second language, which I didn't, start reading books out loud, watching movies, speaking -- I told my parents do not speak to me in English. We're speaking in Spanish, and I would read technical things so that it would be more difficult, you know, words that I didn't use in conversation, and just let people know, but plaster it everywhere and make sure everyone knows. Anytime I send an audition on say Voice 123, 'cause I do use that as a pay to play in addition to my agents and other things, anytime, even if it's an English audition only, I always, always, always write, hey, and if you ever think about hitting the Hispanic market, I also speak neutral Spanish. Please go to my website and here's my stuff. Even if it's only an English spot, I always let people know. And you know what? 50% of the time, they come back to me and say, you know what? We posted a separate for the Spanish. We'll just go with you for both of them. So whatever language that is that you're in, use it. And even if you don't think they'll ever use you in -- let people know, 'cause they're not gonna know unless you tell them, right? So that is my biggest piece of advice is just brag on yourself, man. Let 'em know. Joe: And if I may quote Jaco Pastorias, the great late bass player, it ain't bragging if you can back it up. Milena: Heyo. Ramesh: Absolutely. Anne: Ramesh, your thoughts? Ramesh: Yeah. Well, I think in my case, I was speaking to Joe about this actually a few, a few days back, it, it's very market specific. I mean I live in Spain and I don't really market myself to Spanish clients in Spanish, I suppose because I know there's, there's a whole plethora of Spanish voice artists here. Why would they necessarily go to me? So they come to me for English and as Milena said, once they come to me for English, then I'd bring out the Spanish. I'm like, here you go. I can do it in Spanish for you. Oh great. That saves us so much trouble and hassle finding somebody who can do it in Spanish. And likewise with international clients that I book in English, you know, I tell them I, I can do the Spanish, but I think you, as Milena said, you have to let it be known that you can do both and do whatever you're good at. If you're good at corporate, well, sell yourself at corporate and be even better at corporate, and then perhaps branch out to something that you may want to aspire to. If you wanted to do some animation in Spanish, you've never done that before, get coaching, but focus on your strengths and build your strengths and be really confident that my strong piece is this. And I can promote that openly and confidently, because confidence is, is 90% of the game. If they see that you say I can do Spanish for you as well. And you know, you don't have a belief in yourself, it's gonna seep through. I mean, I do French voicing, but I tell the clients, I'm not a native French speaker. I've got a very good accent, but it's not native. And I try and pull it off because I have confidence that I can do it. Joe: I totally agree. We don't read minds. And I, I was in a corporate multinational advertising agency for a while, and bilingualism in the States is a really important thing. I mean, I don't know what you think, Ramesh, if you agree with me, but for certain reasons, I think there's more of a bilingual ambient in the States than there is in Spain. 'Cause Spain is too busy with politics and they're busy with co-official languages. They're not dialects, they're official languages like Catalan, Gallego, or Galician and, and Basque. And the, the thing is that, uh, because of the way English is taught in Spain and, and because of dubbing, this is the reason why English is not a second nature, uh, language in Spain. So you always have to have client education in mind in the good sense to try to explain to them because they may not read your mind. They may not understand to what level you are in the other language. It's not easy. I mean, it's, we live in a world that is very multiplied because of social media. And you know, I see this from the musician standpoint, again, you know, the advent of pop star. You do a 3000 line casting. You, you get in, you're on TV, it's instant stardom. I mean, there's a lot of ways to get known really quickly and dramatically in this world. And a lot of people are strutting their stuff. So it's a complicated thing to market yourself effectively. It's not just marketing, and here I would like Anne to take over on the marketing thing because you're a master at this, but it's a really important question, what you ask. How do you market yourself in English and Spanish effectively and be taken seriously? You know? Anne: Well, I mean spoken by the guy who has the bilingualvoiceover guy.com, right? I mean me@thebilingualvoice -- so that I'll tell you, right in your URL, you're advertising, and you've got multiple URLs. And I know that, you know, all of you on your websites are focusing or you have the fact that you are bilingual. And I think that's number one, I mean, in this online world and Pilar, I know does an exorbitant amount of not just bilingual voiceover, but also dubbing. So Pilar, any specific, additional tips that we haven't talked about that maybe you could offer as advice to, let's say, bilingual voiceover talent that are coming into the industry now? Pilar: Um, well a lot has been said about it. When I first started in the industry, in voiceover, I was encouraged not to do a bilingual voiceover demo for example by a very, very well known coach here that Anne and I both know who shall remain nameless who said, absolutely. You never mesh the two together. Milena: I've been told that too. Pilar: You have Spanish on one side and English on the other. So I did, not with them. And so then I, I was like, okay. So I went with somebody else. I did it, Spanish, English, fine. And then I thought, no, I'm gonna go ahead and do a bilingual voiceover demo. And I did, and that is one that's booked me so many jobs. The other one is really good. The other two that I did, the Spanish and English and it, my agents prefer me separating them. So that's fine. But the Spanglish one is what has booked me so many jobs. And so for somebody starting out, I think it's just important to keep at it, just to keep putting yourself out there. And also you never know what the client's gonna ask. I just, I find it so hysterical that I get booked for something. We'll do it in English. We'll do it in Spanish. And then they'll say, well, can you just give us a little accent? I'm like, you're kidding, right? And I don't have an accent in either. I mean, in Spanish, I always think I do, but I don't. I know I don't, it's just, it's so minuscule, but they're like, can you just make it a little bit more for us? And then in English, can you just give us a little bit more, a little thicker? I'm like, okay, fine. If that's what the client wants, that's what the client gets. So I think that the key is to be elastic and to say, yes, I can do this. I can do this. Never say no. A lot of times I've come up against artists who sit there, and they say, oh, well, I passed on that because I can't do it. And I was like, well, why can't you do it? Well, I didn't, I didn't think I could. Well, if you don't think you can, then you're not gonna be able to. Right. Exactly. So always be available and let the person who is casting see if you're right for it or not. And you know, keep putting yourself out there, no matter what. Milena: I wanted to ask, 'cause this is the question that I have and I think maybe some that are coming in would appreciate an answer to this -- in the US, the majority of my buyers are speaking English, right, whether they want Spanish or not. Now I do work with buyers that speak Spanish, but the majority of them are in English. So I've struggled with the decision to make my website, do a Spanish website, all Spanish website, or just an all English website. So I've chosen to do an all English website that says I'm bilingual and I'm gonna have an about me page that's just in Spanish, just my about me page. And I just wanted to get your feedback on that, 'cause I think that's a question that a lot of people have coming in as well. Like do I need to have these two separate entities like I have for my demos? Or like I said, for me, the majority of my buyers speak English regardless whether their client is or they -- their primary language may be Spanish, but my buyers are usually in English. Pilar: So this might sound a little radical. Milena: I like it. Anne: Already. Pilar: I'm not thinking about who my buyers are. I'm thinking about me. And if I go, and I did this, 'cause I had two separate websites 'cause I actually followed what this person said to me at first, and I had an English website and I had a Spanish website. And all that does is dilute you. That does nothing for your SEO, does nothing for the persona. And if you're talking about branding, for me, this did not work. It might work for other people, but I just park everything in one place and I have different categories. That's just me. Milena: Perfect. I like it. Pilar: And that has worked better. I think it's worked better in consolidating everything because at one time I had like three different websites. It was just crazy. And it just diluted -- Milena: It's a lot to manage. Yeah. Pilar: Exactly. Joe: I mean, Milena, you could put a tab -- you could have your website in English and then put a little tab of in Spanish and then they can click, and then they'll, they'll go to that same site, and you'll have it all translated into Spanish. What I'm not an expert is an SEO and how it behaves looking at a, at a site in one language and if it can complement SEO ratings on the same site. So just because I could, I have the Bilingual Voiceover Guy, but I have both Voces Bilingue, and right now I'm redirecting them. But the idea is to have Voces Bilingue in Spanish and then have it linked to the English one. Anne: And then Joe, you have a page on your, the Bilingual Voiceover Guy, English that also is translated in Spanish, correct? Joe: Yes, because I hadn't had this thing that I just talked about yet. That, that, that was a sort of a patch in the meantime. And funny enough, that page is what's ranking. Anne: I was just gonna say that, if you have that page, if it's all in Spanish, because if somebody doesn't speak English, and they're typing a search term in Spanish, that would match your page, your landing page. And it still comes to your central, you know, I call it the central website, but you've just got another page. Yeah, a separate tab, a landing page. And I think that's a really good strategy that you'll be able to capture the best of both SEO worlds. Yeah. Pilar: Yeah. The tab is essential. Joe: Yeah. The tab, mm-hmm. Anyway, I mean, my thing is work in progress too, but the way I choose to think is that there's 2 billion English speakers, and there's 600,000 Spanish speakers. So that's a market of 2.6 billion. Anne: Yeah. Joe: For each one of us. And sky's the limit. Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: Ramesh, how do you work your website? Do you have a special page dedicated? Ramesh: I just have it in English actually. I think that's, that's definitely something I need to work on to see how I can, but I've -- to be absolutely honest, I'm quite happy with the level of work that I've got right now. So -- Milena: If it ain't broke. Ramesh: -- smooth sailing, I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I'm comfortable. So I, I could perhaps do all these lovely suggestions that you guys have come up with, but perhaps another time. Anne: Well, I don't have another language page, but I have literally four other genre specific pages like website, because I specialize in corporate narration or I specialize in e-learning. So I have the e-learningvoice.com. I have medical-narration.com, phone voice. And so even though I may not get a ton of activity on those sites, the words on those sites get indexed, and it contributes to my SEO. And each of those sites also maps back to my core site, which I think is my core brand of AnneGanguzza.com in addition to my VO BOSS and VO Peeps brands. So I handle probably 11 sites. Pilar: That's next level marketing. Go to AnneGanguzza.com for next level marketing, that's, that's that's our next, our next job. Anne: But yeah, it just helps to be found and it kind of just works on its own. And every once in a while I do have, as a matter of fact, I'm looking to refresh those pages just to make sure they keep generating people, pointing at my website. And again, it's a wonderful position to be in. If you have a, a good amount of work, I think that's amazing. Then things are working for you. And so that's why your advice and everything we're talking about today is so valuable for people that are coming into this industry. So we thank you, guys, so much for joining us. Milena: Thank you for this contest -- Joe: Thank you for having us. Milena: -- and this swag. Hello! Ramesh: Thank you for having us. Anne: I know. So yeah, I do wanna mention the swag. So not only did you guys get, uh, thank you again to Liz Atherton, but also you guys got BOSS swag, which Pilar and Milena are wearing right now. Ramesh: Yeah. Mine's on the way. It'll be here in about next -- Anne: Which it is on the way. As a matter of fact, I will tell you because you're on that little island there, Ramesh, it might take a little longer to get you. Milena: It's gonna come by carrier pigeon. Ramesh: Keep on looking at the skies to make sure the drones are dropping in. Anne: I can't wait to see pictures of you in that t-shirt. Ramesh: Oh, I will. Anne: And Joe with your mug. That's awesome. So. Ramesh: I love it. Super. Anne: You guys, amazing job. Thank you so much. It's been, this has been so wonderful, and we thank you for sharing your wisdom with us, and yeah, I wanna do this like now every six months. Milena: Down for it. Anne: Think we should -- Joe: -- amazing. Anne: You know, right? Ramesh: It would be pleasure. Anne: So what's been going on in six months in the bilingual world? So yeah. Awesome. Well guys, I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You guys can connect and network like we have on ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I will say that this was recorded today with Riverside. So I'm extremely happy to have given this a try, and thanks for the wonderful video and audio tracks that we're going to get. And one more sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. If you want to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you, find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. Thanks, guys, so much for joining us again. It's been amazing and we'll see you next week. Ramesh: Thank you very much. Joe: It was lovely. Milena: Thank you. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne & Pilar are casting directors! Or at least they were for the first ever #VOBOSS Bilingual Audition challenge. They share the common mistakes, honorable mentions, and (of course) the winners! Tune in to sharpen your auditioning skills & learn what the audition selection process is really like. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the one and only amazing special guest co-host Pilar Uribe. Hey Pilar. How are you? Pilar: Hola todos. ¿Cómo están hoy? Anne: Hola. So Pilar, I'm super excited today because a few weeks back we launched the VO BOSS Spanish bilingual audition challenge. Woohoo! Like it was our first bilingual audition challenge that I've ever seen actually and conducted. And I'm super excited because we sent out the casting first of all through our good friends over there at CastVoices, Liz Atherton and the team over there at CastVoices. We sent out this audition through their system, and we also sent an email to all of you BOSSes out there. And we also published far and wide on social media. So let's talk a little bit about what the specs were for this audition challenge. So the specs were, it could be male, female, non-binary, age range from 25 to 65. So the purpose of this audition challenge was primarily for educational purposes. And so we cast the net far and wide. Our specs were for male, female, and non-binary, age range from 25 to 65. So our specs also wanted to grab a diverse range of voice talent. The voice should be confident, knowledgeable, we have a lot of adjectives here, optimistic, never take themselves too seriously, but at the same time don't come off as sarcastic either, warm, human, down-to-earth, and playful. Their delivery is conversational, relatable, and above all else nothing that is typical commercial sounding ,movie trailer, or announcery at all. Sounds pretty common to me, those specs, right, Pilar? . Pilar: Yeah. And, and the thing is, is that a lot of the times you get just this three paragraphs worth of specs, 'cause they, they want to really throw the kitchen sink in. And the casting directors, they're looking for something. So they're trying to be as helpful as possible. Anne: Yes. Pilar: And sometimes as voice actors, we go, oh my gosh, they gave us so much. Anne: Sometimes it's not helpful. Pilar: Really and truly -- yeah, well right. But they're trying to give you as much information as possible -- Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: -- so you can make your creative choices. Anne: Absolutely. We also specified that talent should read both Spanish and English versions with or without a specific regional accent. And we were going to judge on performance. We wanted two separate MP3s delivered and labeled and named in a particular fashion. And also what else did we specify? Oh, it needed to be uploaded to a Dropbox location that we had set up for the challenge. Pilar: Well, and I think we were very conscious of what we do on a daily basis. I mean the auditions that come in from my agents are very, very similar to that. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: So we wanted to make it as close to a real audition as possible. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And you get this list of things that you need to look at and you need to look at all the aspects of the audition. Anne: Absolutely. We also gave some references. So if people wanted to learn some more, we pointed back to a couple of episodes that you and I did about bilingual on the VO BOSS podcast. And very exciting, we have prizes. So we are going to be selecting today three winners. We are going to select the best English audition, the best Spanish audition, and the best English and Spanish combined. So the prizes are going to be an amazing choice of swag from the VO BOSS shop. And also thank you so much to, again, our friends over there at CastVoices and Liz Atherton, a one year CastVoices pro membership, courtesy of Liz and CastVoices. So very excited about that. All right. So let's talk overall what we thought about the contest and how it went. And actually we gave, I think it was almost two weeks we gave. The due date was to -- Pilar: Mm-hmm. Anne: -- have everything submitted by 6:00 PM Pacific on April 15th. And we took that very seriously because that gave you almost two weeks to submit. We did have some people that submitted a couple, and I was okay with that. Normally that's not how it works in the audition process. You wanna get your audition in probably sooner if you can, rather than later, but because this was an educational experiment, an educational process, I said it was okay to upload alternate files as long as they were in by the due date. So let's talk about the good, the bad and the ugly Pilar: Oh yeah. Anne: Let's start with the ugly. I'm just gonna say, we could probably say it together. One of the biggest things was not following directions. I mean, everything from uploading to the wrong spot and the one that you kept catching. So I know you're gonna say no slate. We requested a slate, and there was so many people that did not have a slate. And that made a difference if it came between two close contestants. So it did make a difference. Not auditioning for both spots. And I'm gonna say the ugly would be ugly audio because people didn't have a good recording environment. There might have been noise. People might have been -- noise in the background. I heard like some whirring and hissing and I don't even know, people plosive-ing on the mics. Pilar: Or they were different levels. Anne: Yep. Different levels. Pilar: One was really loud. The other one was way softer. Anne: Exactly. So yeah. What was ugly for you? Pilar: So for me, the reason why we did this was really, we wanted to simulate what a real audition is like. And the whole slating thing is just, I've been in webinars where they say, well, it doesn't really matter anymore. It really does. And I get probably, on any given day, let's say, I'll get 10 auditions, five of them say, please slate your name when you send in your MP3. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And that's one thing and it's into highlighted. And then the other way it comes in is do not slate anywhere on your file, in bold letters, capitalized, highlighted. So the direction was, and it was really simple, just slate your name. Anne: Right. Pilar: And of -- we had 110 auditions, almost half -- Anne: I think it was 120, yeah. Pilar: 120? Anne: Yeah, okay, so half of them. Pilar: So almost half of them -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- came without a slate. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So that is just glaring because obviously people were quick to rush. Other things that we got, which weren't really necessary -- and I will tell you, because my agents in LA are a little bit more forgiving, but the agents in New York, they are very clear on their auditions that if you don't do it exactly the way they say, they are just not submitting you. Anne: Yeah. If you can't follow directions, then it's very likely that you can't follow direction. Pilar: Right. Anne: Get it? Pilar: And -- exactly. And so when it says, like your name, you slate your name. Don't slate your hometown, don't slate -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- your email address. When you label -- and this is something that is, you know, you copy and you paste it. You don't try to sit there and memorize it. The reason I say this too is because as a voice actor, I saw a lot of mistakes that I have been guilty of at some point. So it was actually a real learning experience for me to go, oh, okay. Once I have done my audition, I've edited it, and I've checked all these things, I -- and I've been doing this for a while, but it really makes me understand that I have to have an eagle ear -- I go and I put it in a file. I go away, I take my headphones off, and then I come back to it and I listen to it as an MP3. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: Because you can't trust your ears. And a lot of the times there are things that just, they don't correlate. So if it says, slate your name, you slate your name. And when you label, you label the way they're asking you to label. So you have to check and recheck your audition because here's the thing about auditions. Auditions are the job. This is what we do. This is what I do every day. The gigs are the hobby, and the gigs are wonderful, but really it is the job. And so if you are submitting to your agent, they need to know that you're serious. They need to know that you're gonna be able to send your auditions the way they asked you to send them. Anne: Mm-hmm. absolutely. Pilar: Because this is not a dress rehearsal. It's not something that you just slap together. It's better not even to send it in, if you're just gonna kind of do it in this sort of half-baked way. Anne: That's such a good point. What happens is, especially if you're sending to your agent, I think that if you become a person and they -- you get a lot of auditions from your agent and you submit all the time -- if you're constantly not following directions, that agent remembers it. And whether or not they mention that to you, I'm sure they will at some point, but it just sticks in their brain. It sticks in my brain when you don't follow directions, because I'm like, ah, that would was a great read, but they didn't name it right. Or I lost it; where did it go? If they had named it right, I would find it. What was that audition that was so good? Or they didn't slate. Oh yeah. What was that guy? So really it becomes something that sticks out in a way that maybe is not as positive as you'd like. And the next time you're asked to submit an audition, I think it just becomes something that gets stuck in their memory. Then it becomes like, well, again, they forgot to slate, or again, they didn't name the file correctly, so now I've gotta go and fix it here on my system. So that just really stands out, I think if you cannot follow directions. And again, if you can't follow directions, it leads me to think that you cannot follow direction either, so. Pilar: Well, and here's the thing that it's even more serious because it's your category, and it's one audition. They're probably dealing with 30 auditions on any given day -- Anne: If not more, right? Exactly. Pilar: Yeah. But let's just put 30 as a, let's just say 30 auditions on one given day. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: So let's say they are submitting five of their best people, but they're sending it out to 50 people for each audition. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: They don't have time to sit there and email you back and say, you did not slate. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: Or you did something or, or there was a mistake here. They're just not gonna submit you the next time. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: They're not gonna tell you because the whole thing is on you. You have to be proud of the fact that you are -- this is -- it's a craft; auditions are a craft. And so it's like, you're giving like a little mini performance. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: Because you're basically saying to the person who's hearing on the other end, I can do what you asked me to. Anne: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Pilar: So you have to make sure that it, it is all in place because if you ask them, because I have. I mean, at the very beginning, when I first started working with my agents and I wasn't booking and I, so I asked them, and they gave me some really constructive criticism. And so I went and I studied more with some specific people, and then I started booking, but they're not gonna sit there and say, oh well, you didn't slate and you keep not slating. And we can't submit you. They're just gonna ignore you. Anne: Everything contributes, everything contributes to it. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: So it, it's so important. For everybody who slated, thank you. And for everybody who followed the directions, thank you. But for the people who didn't, just remember that there's more than one pair of ears listening. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: And so for the next time, make sure that you've crossed your T's and dotted your I's when you send submissions in. Anne: I mean, every time when people are asking casting directors, what are the worst things you can do when you submit an audition? Pilar: What's your pet peeves, yeah. Anne: And that is not following directions. Now, the other thing I noticed for the ugly was the bad audio. So, you know, it's unfortunate. It is part of the business though; you do have to have a good studio or a great studio where you can produce quality audio. And if you have bad audio and, and it becomes between you and another person who had it, maybe an equally great read, I'm gonna pick the person that has the good studio or the, the studio. Because I cannot guarantee, let's say, even though you may not have the best studio sound, that you're gonna be able to come into the studio and then execute by tomorrow, if that's when I need the spot to be done. So you really have to invest in figuring out how to get the best quality audio out of your studio. Pilar: And just, it's so important to note that having the best quality studio does not mean you have to spend $5,000. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Because what they're looking for to be able to submit to the client, what they're looking for is clean audio. It does not have to be a $10,000 studio, a $10,000 booth. It has to be clean. So there's, there are parameters that you have to follow in terms of getting that -65 DB noise floor. It's not hard, but it just takes work. And you have to be able to put in the time and find out how to get that quality. Anne: Well, the cool thing is is that once you get it set up, usually you don't have to change it. It's not like you're gonna have to improve it afterwards. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: And there's a lot of really wonderful audio engineers out there that can help you. They don't have to come to your house. Pilar: And they don't have to cost an arm and a leg either. Anne: They don't, but they're very well worth -- Pilar: There's some great people out there. Anne: They're very well worth the investment of getting that sound to be in tiptop shape. Pilar: Yeah. Yes. Because once you have it, then you've got it forever. I, yeah, absolutely. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Good point. Anne: And that's, and it's done, you know, set and done. So let's talk about, okay, that was the ugly. There might be more if we, if we wanna talk about it more, but I'm gonna go into the bad now, which is not quite as ugly, but the bad is -- so let's think about this. Probably 90% of the time for a commercial read these days, we are being asked for conversational, nothing, typical commercial sounding or announcery. Pilar: Mm-hmm. Anne: Honest to God. Every time I see it, it's like nothing that sounds commercially. So I think that for a lot of you, it's hard to hear yourselves because I think what you're trying to do is sound like you're conversational, and you're not actually acting, and you're not actually in a scene and being conversational. So I'm just gonna say that it's not bad. It's just that you need to develop that ear. You need to really put in the hours for getting yourself as best as you can be in the scene, acting it out so that it's believable and it's authentic. And the thing is, is that when you listen to 200 auditions, it is very obvious which ones are sounding authentic and genuine, and which ones are just trying to sound conversational, and of course those that are being announcery. So it becomes very evident to the ear when you listen to it. And I think when we reveal some of the winners, you're gonna hear that as well. So I'm just gonna say maybe not the bad, but I think everybody always, it is our job to be good at what we do and to be able to bring that copy to life in the way that the director wants to. And so to get my ear, the casting director's ear, if you can show me that you can act, I'm gonna hire you because then if I want you to sound commercially, it's a piece of cake. And a lot of times that might be what you hear on the television. But the fact is is that when you're auditioning, you gotta show me that you can act, and that's the audition that I'm gonna pick. Pilar: And the thing is when you know, people will say, well, what do I do? Where do I go? And coaching is so expensive and this and this and that. Well, it does take work, and it does take learning, but here's the thing. YouTube and iSpot TV are your best friends. Anne: Mm, I'm gonna disagree with you there. Pilar: Why? Anne: Because yes, you can go and listen to the commercials. But again, if the end result is being directed to sound commercially, it's not necessarily gonna help you not sound commercially. Pilar: No, but I'm talking about getting an ear for what is being heard on the radio. For example, if you don't know what it sounds like for, let's say a Ford commercial, you go and you look up a Ford commercial. It's like, when you don't know something, you go and you look it up. If you're auditioning, like, let's say you don't know what a microwave sounds like. You go and you look up, what does a microwave sound like? How can I experiment with how a microwave sounds like? Let me play with it. 'Cause that's what we saw, what we heard in these reads, people who were willing to take a little chance and people who were willing to sort of put some of their personality in there. That's what I mean in terms of doing research for trying to figure out, well, what is it, if I don't really know what it is -- go listen and also study. Absolutely. But there's always research to be done when you are voicing something that you might not be super familiar with. Anne: I will agree with you there. If you're not familiar with the brand, I would absolutely go and do a Google search of the brand. And I'm gonna just say, I'm gonna be very careful listening to other commercials on YouTube and or iSpot. Some of them are amazing, but some of them are not -- if they're ask for a particular style of a read, just be careful. Because not everything that you hear on TV is conversational. And so if the specs are asking for that, then make sure that you go and find something that sounds conversational and not commercial. And if you are new to the industry, I would recommend that you get some coaching to help you with that, to help develop your ear. I think you should consider it to be an investment in your business. And I'm not saying this because I'm a coach. I'm really not. I just know that the longevity of this profession, you learn it's a marathon, not a sprint. Over the years, I've studied, I've coached and I've developed an ear. And I think that that is something that doesn't happen overnight. And so you really have to go and study, Google and make sure you're listening to good commercials and great actors and invest in a coach. And I'm not saying you need to invest in a coach for 10 years, but I think even the best still hit up coaches so that they can continue to be their best. All right. So, and now for the really good, now we're going to announce the winners of each category. So let's start with the winner for English, and the winner is....Joe Lewis. Yay, Joe. Let's play his winning audition. Joe: Beep beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep -- oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: Yay. Congratulations, Joe Lewis. So let's talk about what we liked about Joe's audition. I'll start with saying, I really liked his warm tone. I thought that it was really friendly and super conversational. Pilar: Yeah, absolutely. I will say he did not slate... but his audition was so good, and he made me feel sort of like, oh wow. He made me feel warm. That's what his voice made me feel. Anne: Yeah, me too. Pilar: And that, and that's so important -- Anne: Me too. Pilar: -- when you're listening to any kind of commercial, when you're listening to a voiceover, if they make you feel something -- Anne: I was just gonna say that, yes. Pilar: Then you know that you have reached that person. You've reached that, you know, it's like you've gone through the sound and through the, through the computer, through the cyberspace, and you've reached that person, 'cause you're like, oh yeah, okay. This is, this is cool. I, I, I could trust this person. Anne: Yeah. Such a good point because that is exactly how I felt when I listened to it. And when I listened to it for the first time, I immediately went, oh it wasn't like, oh I love the sound of that. I love the way he did this particular. I mean, there's lots of aspects of it that I love, but it was the feeling that I was left with, and that is gold, pure gold. So yeah, if you can just listen to an audition or listen to a spot and you are able to feel something about it, then I think that is, that is the money, that is the money read. So yeah. Congratulations. And I loved how at the end he really kind of had a different tone, a change of tone. He kind of brought his voice down like, oh it was a secret about the burrito. So I liked his ending burrito. Awesome. All right. So now there were so many good reads that we also decided to award an honorable mention for the English category, and we think you're gonna really enjoy her read too. So the honorable mention in English goes to....Sofia Zita. Congratulations, Sofia. Let's play her audition. Sophia: Beep beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep -- oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: Oh gosh. So I love Sophia's beep that like that struck me from the beginning. I just thought it was really cute. And I'm gonna say at the very end, like she did something, she went off mic. She did an off mic technique for her burrito, which I thought was super creative and super fun. And I thought that her personality, while I thought there were some places in, you know, maybe her first couple sentences where it may not have the flow of a conversational English, her personality just shown so brightly through it that I couldn't help but smile when listening to her. So again, it evoked a feeling out of me, and that pretty much just said, yep. She needs to get an honorable mention for that. So great work on that, Sophia. What are your thoughts? Pilar: I felt like she was talking right to me. I felt like she was standing right next to me talking to me from the get-go. And I was like, oh wow. It's like, she was right there next to me. I don't know it just, again, it gave me this warm feeling inside, and I was like, okay. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. So that really unique beep and that off mic technique really grabbed me at the beginning and at the end too. Pilar: Yep. Anne: So it made her pretty memorable. Pilar: Mm-hmm. Anne: All right. Congratulations, Sofia. All right. Let's talk about now the winner in the Spanish category, and Pilar, I'm gonna let you handle that. Pilar: So the winner in the Spanish category is.... Milena Benefiel, and this is her submission. Milena: Milena Benefiel. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Pilar: I felt like she was very just right there and very straight forward. And you know, this is how it's done. And there was that little sort of laugh at the end. And I, I just, I love this read. Anne: I thought she had a nice, warm smile and a lot of personality in it. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And so I really enjoyed her, and there were so many good ones, but I, I think for her, I just felt an immediate connection with that. Pilar: Mm-hmm. Anne: She was, it was almost like she was in my ear. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And that's a very cool feeling. It's like, hey, telling you a secret and let me tell you about this Toyota. So yeah. Lots of fun and nicely done. Congratulations, Milena. Pilar: Okay. So now we have an honorable mention for the Spanish version and the runner-up was....Nicoletta Mondellini, and here is her read. Nicki: Soy Nicki Mandolini con Dos Thomas. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo en la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito ya está listo. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo en la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Anne: . I'm all about her beep, I'm just saying. Pilar: Her, yeah, her beeps are really fun. And so since we didn't specify one take -- Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: -- or two takes, obviously there a few people who submitted two takes, and I really liked her read because it was different, the first one from the second. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: The first one was very bubbly. Anne: Mm-hmm, yep, absolutely. Pilar: And it was bouncy, and it was full of energy, and the second one was straightforward, but it was still warm, still engaging. Anne: I agree. Pilar: Still talking right to you. And I liked that. Anne: I agree. And I, I think you're right. We didn't say one or two takes, we didn't make a specification, but I think that if you are going to submit two takes, make sure that those two takes are different and different enough so that we can hear that difference. Because for me, that ended up being the point where I said, oh, that was a really cute take. I was like, okay. Short list. But there was a few people on my short list, but when she went on the second take, it showed to me that she could actually have a different take and act. And so I tended to choose her because she did the second take because now I know for a fact that she can give me a different read, and I know I can feel confident that when I'm directing the session, that she can give me what I need. Pilar: That she can deliver. Anne: Yeah. That she can deliver. And so congratulations. And that beep really kind of stuck out. And so here's the thing we asked, 'cause beep beep was kind of a sound effect in the file. We never really specified where the beep was coming from. Even though it seems obvious that maybe it would come from a car or a microwave. But what I loved is most people had a lot of fun with the beep beeps, and I applaud that because that's what made your auditions stand out, if you had fun with the beeps or if you could laugh at yourself. I had a couple of people that really, really went all out for the beeps. And I think that it paid off. Pilar: Because when you bring that little teeny weeny piece of creativity, it affects your voice. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: And it affects your attitude. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so that tells us as the casting directors, oh, they know how to play. They know how to give us a, a little bit of a different flavor for that particular moment, even if it's just two seconds long. Anne: Yup. Absolutely. Pilar: So that's really important. Anne: Cool. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: All right. So now our final category, our combination. Pilar: You know what? Anne: Yeah? Pilar: I feel like this deserves two drum rolls. Okay? Anne: because let's talk about the English first and then the Spanish. How's that? Pilar: Exactly. Anne: We'll do that. So one drum roll, one drum roll. Pilar: One drum roll. Anne: Winner of the English is Ramesh Mathani. Congratulations, Ramesh. Let's play his winning read in English. Ramesh: This is Ramesh Mathani. Beep beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know you can trust Toyota and all our new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep -- oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Beep beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep -- oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: So two completely different reads and interestingly enough, he had a little bit of a, a global international accent on his first read and then more of a straight English read on the second, but they were definitely different. And I remember listening to his first read, I thought, oh, that's really, that sounds nice. But I was just like, okay, I let it -- and then when he came in with the second one and had a different read completely, and even had a different like burrito he had a different burrito expression, I really just thought that that really showed his acting ability. And I was, I was just very impressed. Pilar: Yeah. And I just, I wanna reiterate how important it is to have, if you're going to do two reads, make them different. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: Obviously you don't wanna, you know, have a low voice and then have a high voice because that's kind of silly, but there were a couple of entries where the exact same thing was uploaded twice. Anne: Mm-hmm. yep. Pilar: Or a read was done double time, much quicker. Anne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Pilar: But that doesn't make it a different read. What's your attitude? Who are you talking to? Anne: Right, exactly. Pilar: Are you talking to your mother or are you talking to your best friend? Anne: Sure. Pilar: Are you talking your husband? 'Cause that's going to inform the difference in the read and that's what's gonna make a difference and show us that you know how to act. Anne: Yeah. Change the scene and change your read. Don't just change what it sounds like. Right? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Change your scene and it'll change your reaction to it and your acting. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: So awesome. So now let's go ahead and play his winning audition in Spanish. Oh! Pilar: One more time for the drumroll. Anne: That's right. Ramesh. Pilar: Ramesh. Ramesh: Soy Ramesh Mathani. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo en la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo en la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Anne: You know what I love about that? Pilar: What? Anne: So besides that he's got two different reads, what is really strategic that he did is he placed in both his English and Spanish placed his second read right at the end of the first so that there was no time for the casting director to just like, okay, next. So he literally almost ran them into each other so that it was obvious that there was a second read coming, and it was actually really kind of cool that beep beep was the words because it made it even more like distinct that here's the first read. Here's the second read. But he just, he really butted them up against each other to strategically not allow the casting director to take the ears off of the listen. Pilar: Yeah. And that's so important as we've probably discussed in an earlier podcast, how casting directors are gonna listen to you. They say they listen to everything, but my question has always been -- 'cause I listened to every single one of these. Anne: Do they? Yes, I did too. Mm-hmm. Pilar: And to the end. So when I hear casting directors say we listen to every single one, I wonder, do they listen to every single one to the end? Anne: Right. Pilar: Or do they in fact listen to -- Anne: The first part. Pilar: -- six seconds -- Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: -- which is what is sort of the average. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: And that's why it's so important to remember the ears that are listening to it on the other end. What you're saying is something that I'm gonna use too is just to -- Anne: Yeah, super strategic. Pilar: -- just to smoosh it right next to it so you you're not giving -- to me, one of the things I learned when I started doing on camera work so many years ago, 'cause I've been doing auditions for like over 30 years, is that you wanna make it really difficult for them to turn you off. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. That's it, that's key. Pilar: Or to discount you. Anne: Yep. Pilar: So you wanna do everything possible and obviously you don't wanna make it sound rushed, but it's -- and that's what it means about making, just perfecting the audition. So it's like a little slice of this perfect 30 seconds, and it's not about, you know, being perfect. That's not the point of it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely, good point. Pilar: But it's just about how much you can give to the audition that you're sending in. And then you just, you know, you send it in, and then you let it go and you release it. Anne: Yep. Exactly. Pilar: And I think that he gave us variation. He gave us warmth. Anne: He gave us the feels. Pilar: I trusted him in both languages. So I felt like, oh yeah, okay. If this stranger came up to me and spoke to me, I'd be like, yeah, this is okay. I can go with this. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: So that's so important because it's about confidence. It's about confidence in what you're doing in the moment as you are acting. And so if you believe what you're saying, the person on the other end is gonna believe it as well. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, great takeaways. I mean, so let's remember, BOSSes, make sure that first of all, you follow directions . First of all, follow directions, make sure that you've got some good audio coming out, really work on your acting, make us feel something at the end of your read. And again like Pilar, I love that you said it doesn't have to be perfect. And as a matter of fact, there's a lot of imperfections. I even wrote a blog article on it once, but imperfections are beautiful, and imperfections make me listen. They make me connect. It makes you relatable. It makes you real and authentic, and play, have fun. Pilar: Play and have fun. And don't be worried about if your throat does something weird and it comes out -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- and it's funny, keep it. Anne: If you don't think it sounds right. Pilar: Yeah. Right. Like don't get rid of all your breaths. If that's part of the acting, keep them in there. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: It does not have to be perfect. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: But it has to be engaging so we stop and go, oh yeah. That's what that, that's it, that's the one. 'Cause most of the times casting directors don't know what they're looking for. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: But when they hear it, they're like, yes, that's it. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: That's what I want. Anne: Absolutely. Well, to wrap this all up guys, congratulations. Thank you all for participating. It was an amazing challenge, I think. Everyone, I thank you all for participating. Congratulations to our winners, winner of the English, Joe Lewis, and honorable mention to Sofia Zita. Pilar: Winner of Spanish Milena Benefiel, winner honorable mention Nicoletta Mondellini. Anne: And the winner for both English and Spanish, Ramesh Mathani. Pilar: Ramesh! Woo-hoo! Anne: Congratulations, everyone. I'd like to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect like BOSSes and find out more atipddl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll catch you next week. Congratulations, winners. Woo-hoo! Pilar: Ciao. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Three days with VO industry experts + networking with peers? Sign us up! Anne gets the inside scoop on what’s in store for eVOcation 2022 with co-founders Jamie Muffett and Carin Gilfry. The three chat industry advice for newcomers + seasoned voice artists, what to expect at the conference, paying it forward, and how important it is to make education a lifelong journey! Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to be here with amazing talents and founders of the popular eVOcation Conference, which is devoted to the business of voiceover, Jamie Muffett and Carin Gilfry. Thank you guys so much for joining me today. Carin: Thanks for having us. We're so excited to be here. Jamie: Yeah. Thanks, Anne. Anne: I am so excited to talk to you guys about all things, eVOcation, business voiceover, because I think you guys are such an amazing team. Like you've been together for a number of years, I'm gonna say at least that I've known about -- Carin: Yeah. Anne: -- doing wonderful things for the voiceover community and supporting communities on Facebook with a wonderful conference that you're now having once or twice a year, I'm not sure. Um, we'll talk about that. . Carin: We're not really sure either, because I feel like as soon as we started this conference, then we had a global pandemic, and -- Anne: Yeah, right? Oh my gosh. Carin: So now we're like, so what, what are we doing? Jamie: Yeah. Anne: Well, so before we get to talking about eVOcation, I'd like my BOSS listeners to find out a little bit about you guys. So if you guys wouldn't mind introducing yourselves tell the BOSSes a little bit about how you got into voiceover and then ultimately how you two met and started creating these wonderful community resources. Jamie. Jamie: Carin, do you want to go -- oh. Jamie: Too polite. Carin: We're, we're just so polite. Anne: You guys are so polite to each other. That's why I let you do that. . Jamie: All right. Well, I'm gonna take the lead . I started voiceover in 2009 in the UK and knowing that I was gonna move to the US. So I sort of had this plan that was gonna sort of be a job that I could start in the UK and then try transition over. Um, only really had confidence in it because I had sort of recording knowledge. I was in the sort of studio world in the music industry. And so I knew how to record my voice. And I knew I was going to America where apparently they like English guy voices. So that's, that's all I had really coming in . I started in the UK and then we moved over ,and then I sort of continued on and gradually moved away from music into voiceover. That sort of happened actually fairly quickly. Yeah, I do a whole different array of genres of voiceover, anything that requires British guy really that I'll throw my hat in the ring. And yeah, we connected, when was that? Probably, I don't know, like 2018? Carin: 2017 maybe. Jamie: Oh, maybe earlier. Oh, right. Yeah. Maybe 2017. Carin: 'Cause I feel like it was around when Mahalia was born, my daughter, and she was born in 2017. Jamie: Yeah. And it was actually -- Carin: Sometime around there. Jamie: -- Tim Friedlander I think that introduced us, I think. Carin: I think so. Jamie: Because Tim shot me a message and was like, oh, you know, there's this lady in New York who's got this huge Facebook group for New York voice actors? I was like, no . And so we connected that way and yeah, we just sort of got on well. And I've obviously got my podcast VO School, and she had her community, and we were talking and we was like, there's nothing really in New York aside from Carin's regular classes and things like that. There was nothing big in New York, which seemed crazy . So that was sort of the sort of burgeoning discussion that eventually resulted in VOcation. Anne: A-ha. Carin? Carin: I was a theater kid. My dad's an opera singer. My parents are both performers, and really in my family, there are two options. You either become a teacher or a performer. And a teacher is really a kind of performer anyway . Anne: True. Carin: And so I ended up going to school for opera. And then after being in the opera industry for a while, I, it just, it was so stressful. It's like being an opera singer is like being like an Olympic gymnast or something, or like a professional ballet dancer where you just have to be on top of your game all the time. And if you are even a little bit below what is considered absolute pro, then you're just like, you don't exist. So it was so stressful. And I had a friend who was narrating audio books, I thought, oh, that would be a great thing to do. I can use my voice. I can use my acting abilities. And so I got into voiceover that way. What I didn't know, and this is part of the reason why we founded VOcation also is like all the other skills that you have to know in order to be a successful voice talent. You have to learn how to record yourself and edit yourself and negotiate your own contract. And you have to learn how to direct market and set up a website and make sure that your online casting profiles are set up in a way that meets all the algorithmic things that you need to meet on those sites. There's just so much, and I love every single part of it. The more I found that I could take the reins of my own career, the happier I was. Because in so many parts of the performance industry, the entertainment industry, if you're a performer, you're kind of like waiting for gatekeepers to open doors for you. And in voiceover, yeah. I find that it's not that way. You can really build your own career the way that you wanna do it, and you don't have to wait for an agent or a manager or for winning a competition. You don't have to wait for any of those things. You just kind of jump in and go. Anne: Amen. . Carin: Yeah. And it's, and it's awesome. Anne: That's one of the parts that I love about it as well. It's so refreshing to meet with a couple of people who probably love the business aspect of voiceover, as much as the creative and performance -- Carin: I love it so much. Anne: -- aspect. And I love how you said it just, it becomes, it's your own. This is something that you can direct your own business. And it's one of the reasons why I kind of diverged into three different brands myself, because I wanted to follow each passion and have that as part of my business. And I think that, honestly, there's so many people that, it's so necessary, the business aspect of it, because I'm always saying that you can have the greatest voice in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if nobody knows about it. And so -- Carin: Exactly. Anne: -- there's gotta be that aspect that you are being able to market yourself and create the business that you want in order to be successful in, hey, I gotta help pay the bills. That's for sure. Carin: Yeah. Anne: So. Carin: The other thing that, what I love about voiceover is that there are so many ways to make a career. And like, I know that you, Anne, and I have totally different approaches to how we find work. Like, you are amazing at direct marketing. And you're great at marketing yourself and branding yourself. And you just said, you have three different brands. And I don't do any of that. I started on online casting sites. And I just love to audition. And I audition all day long. And I think both approaches are valid and both approaches can result in similar outcomes. And you know, now I work with agents and managers too, and I love that part of it too. But I think Christian Lance who's, if you don't know Christian Lance, he's like -- Anne: I do. Carin: He's, yeah, he's a great voice talent. He said voice actors are kind of like drivers where like, if you say you're a driver, are you a race car driver, or are you an Uber driver or are you a truck driver or are you like, what kind of driver are you? It's the same with voiceover. There are just so many different ways to be a voice actor. Anne: Yeah. Carin: And that's why at VOcation, we bring a lot, lot of different people in to give you a lot of different approaches to doing the business of voiceover. And you take what works for you and you can toss out what doesn't work for you. So I like that. Anne: I do too. I love it. Jamie, your thoughts? Jamie: I agree. Anne: One of those things that's so funny because at conferences, when you're given choices about what classes to take, there are always the performance classes and then there are like the business classes. I've noticed year after year, people are always going for those performance classes, yet what they really need is the business aspect to it. So I can completely appreciate and love the whole concept of a conference just about the business of voiceover. And you guys have really did something successful. So talk to us a little bit about the evolution of the conference and how you guys came to be, and, and that first year, what was it like? Jamie: Well, we didn't want to just put on another conference that already existed, because what's the point in that? You know, I know things are a little different now post-COVID or well, we're in COVID still, but at the time there were a whole bunch of conferences that, although in different locations, which is most important for a lot of people in terms of access. The offering was kind of similar, you know? I mean, you'd go to one conference and the similar kind of speakers. So we wanted to do something a bit different. And like you said, a lot of conferences, people are so drawn to the performance type classes and panels and things like that. The -- they're like the sort of fast food . Anne: Yeah, right? The candy. Jamie: Yeah. The candy. Anne: Yeah, the candy. Jamie: And we are like, we're like the broccoli. Anne: Yes, exactly. Oh my God. Carin: We're totally the broccoli. Anne: yeah. I love it. Jamie: But if you go to a conference and or you go to a restaurant and it's like a salad bar, like you're gonna indulge in the salad like that you're not even gonna worry about all the other stuff. So that's, that's what we are. We're the salad bar. Anne: The salad bar. Jamie: Yeah. Anne: But I love broccoli. I'm just saying. Jamie: Yeah, I do too actually, Anne: See, there we go. Jamie: I dunno why people hate it. Carin: Delicious. Anne: There we go. So we love broccoli. So therefore we love the whole -- Jamie: Yeah, that's the big takeaway from this. Anne: There you go. We love broccoli . Jamie: So yeah. We're broccoli. Anne: Jamie: Shall I expand on that? Anne: Yes. Expand on what was the first year like, and did you have it, I think you had an in-person conference, right? The first year? Jamie: Yes. We did Symphony Space on the upper west side in New York. You know, the other thing we wanted to do is we wanted to hold it in the city. Like not in an airport like 10 miles outside of town. And that, you know, brings its own challenges. You know, you're having to bring stuff in and shepherd people around, put them where they need to go. Carin: And it's a lot more expensive. Anne: Oh, I was just gonna say, I can't imagine the cost of having it in the city. Carin: Yeah. Renting space in New York is a whole thing. It's and actually Symphony Space is wonderful because they cater to a lot of nonprofits and I mean, we're, we're not a nonprofit, but they cater to a lot of like, you know, smaller groups, and renting a theater was much better for us than renting an event space. Event spaces are just crazy in New York. Yeah. We love Symphony Space. Jamie: Yeah. And we were sort of feeling it out as we went really. It was our first big event that we put on. And, um, for both of us, we, neither of us had been to a voiceover conference before. We'd been to conferences, but not voiceover. So we didn't really have something to compare it to, but it was such a fulfilling weekend. And, you know, we think based on the feedback, everyone had a at time. So yeah, it was, it was really good. We had a whole array of business classes and panels that some were very genre based. Some were, you know, marketing, some were more businessy like tax and stuff like that, and negotiation and things like that. So there's still a huge amount of scope even within this sort of limited niche conference spare to explore lots of different avenues. Like you said, there's just so much, there's so much to it. So every year, maybe not thematically, but we'll dive into different aspects. And, you know, because like Carin said, there is no definitive one path through this industry. So you really have to sort of present, uh, many of the options as possible to people. And then they draw out what is appropriate to them and what sort of fits in their career. Anne: What I love about that is because there is no one clear path or right path to get into it, your conference is offering all of the options, and people that are just kind of finding their way in this industry, I think that's such an important resource for them to understand. Number one, as you both are saying, there's more than one path into success in voiceover, and having a resource that allows people to see all the different options, I think, is truly a wonderful thing. And I wish, you know, when I had gotten into voiceover back in the day, and I'm like, I'm old, there wasn't -- Carin: You're not that old. Anne: Well, probably older than I'd like to admit these days, but it's one of those things where there wasn't groups, there wasn't online groups. There were physical groups, but when you were just getting into voiceover, it was hard to find them. And so this has kind of evolved over the years. And I just love the fact that you guys have provided a resource solely dedicated to business, 'cause I'm a business geek. I'm fully so very excited that you guys are gonna be continuing this and, and this year, even you're having a, a virtual conference and I think an in-person conference, is that correct? Carin: We are. Anne: Cool. Carin: Finally after three years, we're now gonna do a VOcation in person again in New York at Symphony Space in September -- Anne: Nice. Carin: -- of 2022. And our virtual conference eVOcation is gonna be in June. And we're so excited that you're joining us, Anne. Anne: Yes. Thank you. I'm honored and very excited to take part in this for the first year for the virtual conference. I'm excited. Now, Carin, you moved from New York -- Carin: I did. Anne: -- to my neck of the woods, and I, and I'm originally from New York state myself and New Jersey. So now that you are in California, do you miss New York? Do you miss your peeps in New York? . Carin: I miss it so much. Oh my gosh. We left at the very beginning of the pandemic. Anne: Yeah. Carin: It was so crazy in New York at the very start. Anne: Yes, oh, I know. Carin: You know, we have two little kids and being in our little 800 square foot apartment with one bathroom and a potty training toddler and a baby and no backyard was like just impossible . So we bought a house sight unseen and moved to Southern California, and this sounds really dumb. And I feel like maybe this is a bit of hyperbole, but it, I felt almost like, like a refugee. Like we left without saying goodbye to anyone. Anne: Yeah, right. Carin: Because we couldn't see anyone, and we just kind of bought a house and packed up our stuff and left within a few weeks, and we were not planning on it. And so for the first like year that were here in California, I love it. My family's close by, the weather's beautiful. The kids absolutely love it. But if I would see a picture of the New York skyline -- Anne: Oh I know . Carin: -- I just would burst into tears. Anne: Yeah. Carin: I just, I miss it so much. And what I miss about it most is the community of people that we built there. Anne: Yeah. Carin: Because voice actors of NYC, we were doing two or three in-person events a month with like 50 to 100 people every event. And they were almost all donation based. So, you know, a teacher would come, and people would just pay what they could. And then the teacher would take the whole donation amount except for the space rental. And you know, we got to know each other, like we would eat each other's cooking when we had a potluck, and we knew each other's family, and we met each other's spouses. And it was just such a beautiful, wonderful community. And I'm so excited to do VOcation in New York and to see my New York family again, 'cause I just, I miss them all so much. Anne: I definitely miss New York. There's something about New York that I don't know. I love California. Don't get me wrong. And I'm probably not gonna move back to New York or New Jersey, but I have family back there. So there's really just something magical about it. And I love how you had a community. It reminds me of, you know, one of the reasons when I moved out west, I started the VO Peeps because I wanted a community because I didn't know people, and I wanted to meet people and just start a community out here. So I get that community. I think that's something so important when you are first starting out in this business. It's important to have a sense of community because people helping people in like minded industry, I think it's wonderful that you have a, a group, and that group is also online. And I can really see the sense of family there. You guys take such good care. I'm in a lot of groups, and you guys really take care of your members. And I really admire that about both of you. And you're both really giving people. I noticed that this year there's like a trillion scholarships for the conference. I mean, talk to us a little bit about your scholarships for the conference. Jamie: Well, yeah, it started originally at the very first event when Joe from Voice Actor Websites gave up his speaker fee to a ticket for the following year for someone, and he said, oh, just donate it to someone next year. I don't -- you don't need to pay me, which I thought was really a sweet thing. And then we mentioned that, and then quite organically people started offering, well, I'll pay for a ticket for someone. And then someone else saw that they did that. Then it just sort of snowballed. And then last year I think we had 15 scholarships that we gave out. And then this year we've had 27. Anne: That's amazing. Jamie: So 27 people, yeah, are getting to go to the conference that maybe they probably otherwise wouldn't have gotten to go to. So, you know. Anne: So then let me ask you, because I've also offered scholarships through VO Peeps, and that's not a small thing. There's a lot of work. I mean, I love to be a provider of scholarships if I can, but there's also some work. And I think you guys, in order to just even offer the scholarships, what is the criteria for the scholarship? And then you have to judge, and that's always tough. Carin: So we had 87 people apply for scholarships this year, and Jamie and I read through every single application. And it's just an online form. And you talk a little bit about your journey and voiceover, why you think you would be a good candidate for the scholarship, how you plan to give back to the community, if you get the scholarship, and then anything else we should know. And I have to say it was such a tough decision, and we awarded scholarships based on so many different things. People who had real financial need and seemed like real go-geters. People who've had like a really bad couple of years. People who just filled out their application so well and seemed like just amazing candidates who are just gonna take the next step into voiceover and have great success. It was just a real mix of all of those things. And we came up with 27 people that we agreed on took a little while, but. Jamie: Yeah, we had a whole process that we had to go through to get to that point. Anne: I had a score sheet. And I love that you based it on financial need. And I, I really am a big proponent of offering scholarships to help people that really need it. And even if, like you said, if they've had a couple of tough years and judging that those entries are so difficult. I actually would have a different judging panel every year, which I never disclosed, but it became work for people. And I'm so grateful for the people that helped in the judging of that all because it is a lot of work. And, and I thought for myself, for me to just judge, it was tough without having someone else have a -- Carin: Yeah. Anne: -- another objective view. So I would always get a team of people who would volunteer their time to judge. And so I love, love, love that you guys are doing scholarships and just, it warms my heart, it really does because I haven't had, uh, VO Peeps scholarship in, in the last year because I've kind of gotten on board with some other scholarships. And so I still once a year, try to give out scholarships for VO Peeps, for people that have a financial need. So kudos to you for that. So let's talk about your lineup this year. Who do you got coming? Yeah. And what sort of topics are you gonna be talking about? Carin: Well, we have a lot of great people. Maria Pendolino of course is a rockstar. She's coming back. Anne: She is. Carin: Anne: Total rockstar. Carin: She's gonna give a talk called Non-broadcast Genre is the Foundation of Your House. Anne: oh, nice. Carin: Which is great. Anne: Love it. Love it. Jamie: I feel that's up your street, Anne . Carin: Yeah. I'm gonna be, uh, interviewing Mark Guss about the agent client relationship. Mark Guss of course is a manager at ACM talent, but he's been an, an agent as well. Amazing guy. We have a panel on all of the freelancer websites, including Fiverr and Upwork and -- Anne: Okay. Carin: -- what they mean for our industry. And is there a way to use them ethically? Anne: Sure. Love it. Carin: We have a -- yeah. We have a working pros panel. What else do we have, Jamie? Jamie: I think you should have prepped people that you were gonna say the Fiver word, 'cause if someone's driving while they're listening to this, they'll probably just crash their car. Carin: Yeah, that panel is called We Don't Talk About Fiverr, No, No. Anne: But we do, but we should. Jamie: We should. Anne: I think we should. Carin: We don't talk about Fiverr. Anne: I'm kinda on board with that. I think there's too many people that aren't talking about it. Carin: Yeah. Anne: And there's too many people that don't talk about other things like synthetic voices. And I think that that's important. Carin: Yeah. Anne: Because how do we prepare ourselves for that -- Carin: Exactly. Anne: -- influence in our industry? So, I mean, you can't ignore Fiverr. It's there. Jamie: Yeah. Anne: And other assorted, you know, maybe freelance communities that are maybe not desirable in some people's eyes. I think like you said, Carin, there's multiple paths. Carin: Exactly. Anne: And I am not here to judge. To be honest. I mean, we run our own businesses. I think that there's principles that we should all maybe try to strive for and knowing your worth, which is I think at the top of the list, I think that that's definitely something that you have to understand, but then we all run our own businesses. Carin: I think so much of knowing your worth just comes from an education. Anne: Yeah. Agreed. Carin: When I started, I didn't even know that there were agents that were sending people out for auditions. Like, I didn't know there was a union that I was supposed to join. I didn't know anything. All I knew is that I did a Google search and I found these online casting sites, and they were offering $100 for only a 30-second commercial? That's like, so little time. Right? I just had no idea Anne: I get it. Carin: I had no idea what the rates were. Anne: So totally get that. Carin: Yeah. And that's how people start. They go on Fiverr because that's like the thing to do if you're a freelancer, and they don't know about the GVAA rate guide. Anne: Right. Carin: They don't know that you're supposed to be getting higher rates. And I think when you know, then you charge more. Anne: Yeah. Carin: So I think is a huge part of it. Anne: Yeah. Carin: And we can't fault people for not knowing what the industry standards are. The only thing we can do is educate, you know, lovingly guide them to charge more if they can. Anne: I agree. I got on the pay-to-plays back when they were first starting and they worked for me. But before the pay-to-plays, there was freelancer.com. And I don't even know if it was called that, but that was, if you wanna talk about people who underbid in order to get a job, the earliest freelancer was people would go post their jobs, and the person that bid the lowest won. And I was on that. I'm not saying that could be considered the Fiverr of today maybe. Carin: Yeah. Anne: But I didn't know. Carin: Right, exactly. Anne: And again, it was, I didn't have the education. There weren't the online communities like there were, and I found out and I learned thankfully, you know, that I was worth and I was worthy of charging a fair rate. And ultimately I evolved into the mindset, know your worth. And I think as influencers with the podcast that we are putting out there as a resource, with the conferences, eVOcation, I think that it's wonderful that we are putting out resources to educate people about knowing their worth. And that's all we can do really . Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's only part is part of the offering as well. So you may hear discussions about Fiverr and Freelancer and what have you. And, and then you learn about some of the other avenues, direct marketing. And then you determine where your journey, where your path lies. That's sort of the, the beauty of this, this industry. And you know, with some of the online discussions, particularly not to make this all about Fiverr, but with some of the online discussions, you, you even mention that, and you're immediately pounced upon, you know? Anne: Oh, I know. Jamie: There is no discussion -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Jamie: -- why it's bad, et cetera. But the other thing is that for me, I think if you've been in the industry for five plus years, you don't know what it's like to start in 2022. The landscape is different now to how it was five plus years ago. So we really should have those discussions to educate us who are more established as to what the lay of the land is in a sort of earlier phase. So yeah, we got a whole bunch of stuff. We got casting panels, rates and usage. Anne: Wow. Jamie: You're teaching the email marketing class, and social media, we've got Natalie. Carin: Yeah. Natalie Natus. She's so great. Jamie: Yeah. Carin: She's an audiobook narrator who has like just kind of exploded on TikTok and -- Anne: Fantastic. Carin: -- very funny and wonderful. So she's talking about social media, all good stuff. Jamie: And we've got Voice Actor Websites' crew talking all about how to optimize your website and separately, how to work your SEO because they're two sides of the same coin, but you can't have one without the other, if you really wanna, you know, your website to work. So yeah. There's other stuff too, but we won't go through everything. . Anne: Well, it sounds like a fantastic lineup. And what are those dates? Jamie: eVOcation is June 10th, 11th and 12th. Carin: Yes. Anne: Got it. Jamie: Three days. Anne: Your in-person one, you're kind of scoping out for the fall, is that correct? Carin: We have the dates actually, September 10th and 11th. Anne: Fantastic. Carin: In New York city. And I'm pretty sure tickets are gonna go on sale in July for that one. So keep an eye out, and we actually have another kind of secret thing that we'll announce at the conference as well about something coming up in 2023. Anne: Awesome. Jamie: Yeah. Carin: We won't tell you here, but it's a fun secret. Jamie: It's just a tease. Carin: This is just a tease. Anne: I love secret things. Carin: Yes. Anne: All right. Jamie: Tease from the broccoli. Anne: I'm so excited BOSSes. Really, this is a conference I think everybody should go to this conference. Everybody in voiceover should go to this conference. Jamie: I agree. Anne: It's just, yeah. Such a wonderful resource for the community. Thank you, guys, so much for doing this, for your generosity. You guys are just amazing for being such a support in the community. I really appreciate that. I see it all the time. You guys are just so wonderfully supportive and that is a wonderful thing. So my last question would be, if you guys had one tip to give to the BOSSes about being successful in their voiceover career, what would that be? Carin: I would say my best tip is find the thing that works well for you and works well for your brain and lean in to that. So if you find that you absolutely love direct marketing, lean into that and do it to the best of your ability. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, of course, but really, really put focus and attention and love into that. If you find that you love auditioning, put your focus and attention and love into that and find the thing that makes you love voiceover and makes you love going to work every day and lean into that thing. And that will help you to love your job and be successful. Anne: Awesome. Jamie: Yeah. And I've been thinking a lot lately, well, the last of year or so about how I interpret specs, and I've sort tried to change my approach to it. Rather than trying to twist myself into a pretzel to be the person that I think they want me to be, I use them as just ingredients into the soup of my brain that is trying to interpret what this project is. And then I give them my natural, authentic interpretation of that and the most real thing that I can offer, rather than getting too hung up the adjectives and the references and things like that. So I know that's not to do with business, but it's just something I've been thinking about a lot lately. And I saw an immediate uptick in bookings as a result of changing that mindset. Anne: Awesome. That's awesome. No, I think that's amazing. Thank you, guys. If anybody wants to get in touch, if the BOSSes wanna get in touch with you, how can they get in touch with you guys individually? And also what again is that URL for the conference, should they want to buy tickets? Carin: Yes. If you want to buy tickets for the conference, you can go to VOcationconference.com, and I am @CarinGilfry at -- on all the socials. Jamie: And I am Jamie Muffett on Instagram and all that jazz. And you can find my website, JamieMuffettVO.com. Anne: Thank you so much. And again guys, eVOcation tickets are on sale. Go get them, very important, BOSSes. I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor. ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes like we are today. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Carin: Bye. Thank you. Jamie: Thank you. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Auditions are a voice actor’s work day in and day out. Anne & Pilar understand how important auditions are and how much time goes into crafting one that will catch the attention of casting directors. They discuss spending time with your copy, researching the product, adding smile to your slate, respecting the concept, and more…to get you auditioning like a total #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am with my very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, how are you today? Pilar: I'm exhausted. Anne: You know what, I am too. And I have a question for you in regards to that, why? Pilar: Yes? Anne: Why Pilar? Pilar: Why am I exhausted? Funny you should ask that, Anne, funny you should ask that. I was up until all hours doing my auditions. Anne: Oh man. Why is it that every agent I know sends auditions at like 5:00 or 6:00 PM, when at the end of the day I am literally, I'm done. I'm like, I'm exhausted, my performance, and that's a big thing, Pilar, for me. I've got to have energy enough for performance and thought and acting, and I'm exhausted at the end of the day. And I'm like, oh no, because there's a decision, right? Do I do it at night when I'm tired and I've got to rev myself up or do I wait in the morning where I know I'm really good, but then my voice is like this, it's very low. Perhaps I can't get back down there again. Pilar: Yes. This is really true. It's kind of six of one, half dozen of the other. I really look at auditions as it's, it's work. Anne: Yes, it is work. Pilar: You know, auditions are what we do. It is the work. A good friend of mine said audition is the work and acting is what I get to do once in a while. Anne: It's our job. Pilar: Auditions are the job. Exactly. And so I like to look at auditions as sometimes I go, oh yeah, right, time to make the donuts, time to do the auditions. But other times I really like to look at them as an adventure. Anne: Yeah, like a puzzle. That's me. It's a challenge. Pilar: What is the adventure? Where's the story that I'm going on? And this may sound odd, but I have learned so much about people and about different themes just from auditions. Because when they tell you, okay, go here on, look on YouTube. Here's this reference, look at this. And then you look at it and you go, oh, wow. I didn't know about this product. I didn't know this woman had done this. Some of the images that they send you are so heart-wrenching and, and I just go, wow. I would never have known that if I hadn't auditioned. So I always try to look at the positive. [sings] "You gotta accentuate the positive." And um, yeah. I know everything is a song for me. It's really ridiculous. It's just what it is. It's a song or it's a jingle. Anne: Right? I think of you now every time I climb in my studio and I'm singing, and I'm like, yeah, I bet Pilar's singing right now. She's singing the audition. But -- Pilar: Yeah, pretty much. Anne: -- I always like to go at auditions with a strategy, right? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: I try to do something that I think that nobody else will do because in my head immediately, right, when I read the script, I'm hearing something that maybe I've heard on television before. I've heard a melody. And again, I want to make sure that I'm selected for the job. I want to get the gig. So I want to really figure out how I can be unique in that audition. And that's what most people say, what's a good strategy for auditioning, well, bring yourself to the party, do something unique, because casting directors and by the way, for anybody who's never cast before, I strongly encourage it. If you guys have an accountability group or you work out with peers, run your own casting. Because that will help you to understand what casting directors go through. I literally -- only takes one, one example, one test where you're listening to maybe a couple, even 20. Even if you just listen to like 20 auditions in a row for the same piece of copy, you're gonna find things that stand out to you and things that don't. Pilar: It's so interesting because I had the opportunity, I had to cast, uh, something, but it wasn't for a voice at all. It was for some artwork. And I was very specific, very specific in the directions. And I had this one person who basically fought me every step of the way, because we could have that interaction, which you don't usually have when you're doing voiceover auditions. But he would ask me questions and I would answer them. And every time -- I would say, this is what I need, I need one sketch. And then he would go off on a tangent and present 10. And I was like, did you not read the directions? This is what I want -- Anne: But no. Pilar: But no, exactly. And so it's -- I think the one thing that I learned from casting is casting directors, they are looking for you. They are looking for your voice, and it may not be in this particular audition or in the next one or in the next one or in the next one. But they are looking for you. So you need to present your best work and think of that. Anne: And impress them. Pilar: And impress them. Not by trying to please them, because that's another big trap that people fall into that I've fallen, fallen into so many times. Anne: What a good point. Pilar: It's not about what do they want? You know, it's like when they say we're looking for a Scarlett Johansson or Sigourney Weaver type, which I get all the time -- Anne: Yup, yup, me too. Pilar: -- they're not looking for Scarlett Johansson. They're not looking for Sigourney. It's for an essence. Anne: Right. Pilar: So watch her movies, watch their movies, listen to them. You don't need to ape them. You don't need to try to copy them exactly. But listen for their attitude. And you have to develop that attitude when you go into the booth to record. Now, everyone has a different strategy, right? Like some people print the auditions. Some people just underline, they bold. Some people just do it. Boom. They just go ahead and they go and they read, and they read a couple of times. Whatever it is that your process is, you want to try different things. You know? So you want to maybe read it a few times or maybe walk around with it. And I think in an earlier episode we mentioned singing. Anne: Of course, sing it to get you into a different frame of mind. Pilar: Exactly. Or do it like in workouts. When I do animation workouts, our teacher will say, okay, do it as if you were Cruella de Vil. And it's completely opposite, you know, and you're doing like the straight commercial copy for Charles Schwab. But when you get out of yourself -- Anne: As Cruella. Pilar: -- as Cruella, and then all of a sudden, you dive into the copy again, and it's a completely different read. Anne: Going back to the one point, which I think is almost possibly more important than, than your voice, and that is following directions. Pilar: Yes. Oh my God, yes. Anne: I wanted to revisit that. I wanted to add some commentary to that, understanding that I do some casting myself and also work with students. And so I have a number of people that I'm working with at any given time, so that when there are instructions on how to do something and perhaps where to put the audition, how to name the audition, and then there's a naming convention. Oh my goodness. That is so, so important because here's what happens if you're not following directions. First of all, I can't find your file. And if I can't find your file, I'll spend all that time, if I'm with you as a student, searching for that file, and that's your time that you've paid me for. So number one, you're kind of digging into your own time, if I cannot find the file that I've asked you to present. And also if it's not named correctly, it's not going to show up correctly in my computer. So again, I'll be hunting for something and taking up time that you have paid me for during our session. And/or if I'm casting, you've just taken up my time. And just at that point, because I've already asked you to do something, and you didn't follow directions, then I really have -- I've got a taste, kind of not a good taste in my mouth of you as an actor. Right? Pilar: Yeah, there's more of a possibility you're going to ignore the, the audition. Oh my God, fine. Whatever. Anne: I'll toss it right out the door. Sometimes it really depends because I could have 200 people, 300 people vying for that. And the people that have not followed directions, right, if I can't get to that audition quickly enough, or if I've specifically asked for something, and you've not been able to show that you can follow directions, well then how do I know you're going to be able to be directed? And that is, I want to say one of the biggest things. I think when we're auditioning for our agents and we're doing the job of auditioning, we're imagining what it sounds like, and we're trying to please, like you were mentioning before. We're trying to please the director is, this is what it should sound like. But in reality, we have to showcase so much more than that. We have to showcase our acting ability because what you hear in the commercial, when it finally runs, may not be what you auditioned with. And trust me, I think more casting directors are looking for the actor and not the sound that's in your head that you're mimicking. Pilar: Yup, yup, right. Anne: So they want to see that you can act and whether or not they direct you to that same audition in the final spot, if you get it, that's neither here nor there really. So -- and I heard a very well-known agent the other day that said, what you hear on TV is not necessarily what got you the job. Pilar: And something else, I mean, my agents are relentless when they say this, and they get this from the casting directors. I've been out here for almost three years now. And it amazes me that I still see the same language, which means people are not following directions. So when they say do not slate, we don't want anything. Don't start talking about yourself. I'm like, are you kidding me? You're sitting there talking about where you're from and you're trying to sit there and interact with the people who are going to hear it. Right? Anne: That's people trying to make things unique. Right? Pilar: Yes. Anne: So, yeah. So you've got to be careful, when all of the good advice is make yourself unique, that doesn't mean making yourself unique when you're not following directions. If people say, please don't slate, don't slate. That's not going to make you unique if you slate. So follow those directions. And then when it comes to the actual copy, then yes, I would say, be creative, bring yourself to the party and showcase your acting skills. Because a good casting director is going to be able to hear that like from note one, from the very first word. They're going to be able to tell if you're a great actor. And that is something that is attractive because when it comes time to actually laying down the spot, I mean, if you're lucky, they'll use your audition. But if they decide they want to lay down the spot later on and live direct you, they know that that's going to be a thing that they can do with you. They can direct you, you can be directable. So that is super important and follow all of those instructions. And you know what? Don't, don't follow the instructions because that way I'll have a better chance, right? That's the way I think, you know what, fine. You don't want to follow directions. Cool. Then my audition gets listened to and yours doesn't, so. Pilar: And here's something that's really interesting -- exactly -- that I learned actually recently, when they say, be creative again, you label. You slate or you don't slate. Within the boundaries of the competition itself, when you're auditioning, you can go ahead and be creative, but here's something -- there's a caveat to that. There might be like ums and ahs. You know, you, you can do something straight for your first take and then do a second take. And you want to be careful that one is different from the other, because you don't want to send them almost the exact same take. 'Cause then they're like, well, what's the difference? So if you have something that you think you can offer to them that is going to make them slow down and go, oh, okay. She can do this now. Or he can do this. Great. If you don't, just give them one take. I took a class the other day with a SAG-AFTRA foundation, SAG-AFTRA union members listening to this. There's some great free webinars. I heard this voice actor who's also casting director talk about -- he asked us, okay, who is the person who makes the decision? And there was a bunch of categories and the agent, the casting director, the producer. Nobody got the answer right, which was that the copywriter is the one who makes the decisions. Now that is open to interpretation. But I thought that that was really interesting. Anne: Oh, that's very interesting. Well, the copywriter is hired to write that voice in his head. Right? Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Represent the brand. And so I've always agreed. If you can get yourself into the copywriter's head and understand where they were, and you can figure that out and audition with that in mind, because it's going to fit nicely into the spot. 'Cause sometimes, you know, the spot, you know, has the video been completed. And the last thing they're doing is putting in the voice. Is there a scratch track already there? We don't know these things. Sometimes we have a storyboard. Sometimes we don't. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten an audition where there's absolutely nothing with it. There's no storyboard. I look at it and go, my goodness. What is that even about? And that's where your, your initial investigation into the brand, if you know what it is, can really help. Google is your friend, and that can really help you to understand the brand and how they are selling to their current clients, their potential clients. So that can help give you an idea. But I love that, like, who is it that hires you? Because that's such an interesting perspective because is it the copywriter who wrote the piece of copy? Is it the casting director, right, who is casting the project, or is it the client? So let's send in our audition, right, to our agent. The agent then shortlists us or not. Right? I don't know. It depends. You don't necessarily know if that audition got sent out to five of you or maybe 250, although sometimes that's easy to tell with certain agents where it seems like it's a big cattle call. But sometimes your agent and, and I'm sure, depending on the agent, if they know you very well, they're going to send it out to just a few people that they know would be great. So they've already in a way cast, right, your agent. And even if they cast the net far and wide, when they get those auditions back, they're listening to them, they might shortlist and then give that list to the client to make a decision. Pilar: Right. It could be interesting to know who it is that makes the decision. But really the reason I said that is because you have to respect the copy. Whether it's good or whether it's bad, whoever wrote it or whether -- that's your opinion. Somebody wrote that and somebody was hired professionally to professionally write that, and you have to respect their words. Anne: And every word is there for a reason. Pilar: Exactly. Because these people have worked on that thing for months and months and months and months. Anne: And look at us, coming in our studio for like maybe a minute, looking at the copy, and then making a decision as to what it means. Pilar: Exactly and saying, oh yeah, I'm going to change this because I don't really like that. It's like, no, no, that's not our job. Anne: Or not even that is to interpret it, but to take some time. I know people that just come in and they're like, okay, I got it. They read it. And they haven't taken any time to really digest the copy or to even try to analyze and see what's the idea, are there innuendos, is there like a double entendre? You know, what is it actually talking about? What does the visual look like at this time? And even if you don't know, and you never do know, if you make some assumptions and try to really analyze it a little bit more than just a few seconds, that's going to really help change your read. Pilar: Yeah. Because the voice is going to give a life to what you're seeing if it's a TV spot, for example. If it's radio, your voice is everything. Your voice has to be able to portray all these things. It's our job as voice actors to really take the time and note, what is the story we're telling? What is the beginning, middle and end? Because every piece of copy really, it's like a little one act play. And it, whether it's 15 seconds or it's a 10-page narration, there is a story. And it's our job to sift through that and to make our decisions, how to navigate that. And also by the way, the audition that you're given is usually not the audition that you're going to be doing. Sometimes it's going to be the copy, but sometimes it's not going to be the final thing. 'Cause it'll go through a whole bunch of other rewrites and by the time you get to actually record it. And so a lot of the times, if you're not careful, you can fall into traps. There are crumbs showing you the way. But if you sit there and you say, oh yeah, I'm just going to do the copy. I'm going to get into the booth and just read it, and it'll be great, you're going to fall into those traps. So that's another reason why we have to take our time with the copy, underline, try a different ways, see where the meanings are, see where those little trapdoors are. Anne: Tell me about the traps, expand on those traps. Like you just want to fall into a particular melody of what you think it should sound like versus there's actually a meaning behind the few words -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- right, that you haven't bothered to really investigate or to analyze. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Okay. Pilar: So I have a Spanish audition coming up, and I have to have an accent where it's sort of the equivalent of like a Southern accent. Anne: Interesting. Let's actually talk about that because I mean, obviously as a bilingual voiceover actor, there's lots of different opportunities that you have, if it's going to be English speaking or Spanish speaking, or maybe it's going to be cast for both. Let's talk a little bit about your auditioning techniques for that. Are the casting specs always for, I need a Spanish talent or are they more like we need an English that has a Spanish accent? Or what are you finding in the casting specs, first of all, that call for bilingual talent? Pilar: You know, it varies. Most of the times it's divided. So you're either going to get Spanish or you're going to get, here's the Spanish copy. But once in a while you will get a bilingual audition. So it's the copy in English and in Spanish. Anne: So you would get cast for the same thing in both languages, right? Pilar: Yep, yep, absolutely. And that doesn't happen very often, but it's happening more and more that a client wants to hear the same voice in both languages. And I don't know if this happens to all bilingual voice artists, but it's, it's just really funny. It's a totally different sensibility, when you read a commercial in English and you read the words in Spanish, it just is, the musicality is different. The rhythm is different, the attitude is different. And I can't really explain why that is. I just know it. Anne: Well, you have to know the culture, I think, right? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: I mean, to be a, an effective bilingual talent, right? There has to be some native speaking there or growing up in a particular region or whatever other language that is. I would imagine more and more casting directors are looking for native speakers so that they can probably know that about the demographic. Pilar: Yeah, because you would think that a translation would be the same, but it's not the same thing. So you really have to kind of get into the character of this person who speaks Spanish versus the person who speaks English. And it's just a little, kind of a little switch, but there's a flavor to each piece of copy. So you have to bring your personality, even if it's in a different language to that copy. Anne: I would imagine that if they're having you do both English and Spanish, there might be some timing issues just because of the language difference. Like let's say it's a 30-second spot or something like that. And they're trying to have the same message, but yet the translation usually it takes a whole lot longer than an English version, let's say. And so do you run into issues like that where they have to re-write the copy or cut some of the copy for the other language or both languages? Pilar: Well, that's not my job -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- to do that. So I try to stay away from that. I used to be very, very concerned about the timing 'cause I'd be like, oh my gosh, this is -- because Spanish, it always takes three words to say the same thing in English, uh, for one word. So now I don't really worry about that as much. And if I go over, I go over, and again, it's just an audition. Anne: Right. Pilar: If they're being very specific, which I have had as well, you have to fit it into 30 seconds, I try to speed it up as much as possible before I sound like a chipmunk. And then I'll, you know, because I mean, sometimes I do and it's just kind of crazy. And I'll just tell my agent. Anne: That's like me in automotive. Right? Because they always throw in like so many more words than I can do in this 15 or 30-second. And so -- Pilar: Especially the legal, especially the legal. Anne: Well, by the time you get all the words in there, you have no room for emotion or nuance, you know, and it's just -- Pilar: Or breath. Anne: Or breath, exactly. So you're pretty much just like, blablblabla, you know, and that's it, which is always crazy to me. But so for the majority then let's say if your auditions, you're getting them in maybe English with an accent, or you're getting just a particular style of Spanish that you're auditioning for? Pilar: You know, I get everything. And it's really funny. 'Cause when I go and I do spots, because I've, I've done, let's say back to back English spot and Spanish spot. So then we'll be recording. We'll do the English spot, we'll do the Spanish spot and then they'll come back and they'll say, can you do the English spot with a little bit of an accent? And I'm like, really? And I'm like, okay, great, sure. You want that? It kind of depends. So if they ask for it, I do give them a little bit of an accent because you know, my mother has an accent. Pretty much all my relatives have accents. So I can just go to that little voice bank for that. Anne: So are you slating in an accent or in Spanish? Pilar: Only when the, the entire copy is in Spanish do I slate as Pilar Uribe, instead of Pilar You-ribe. When it's obviously something that they want some Spanish for -- like, I do a lot of work for spots that speak English, but they have sprinklings of, of words. So they need somebody who knows how to say those words in Spanish. So I'll always slate in my just, you know, Pilar Uribe. But for a Spanish speaking audition where only Spanish is spoken, I do say my name in Spanish. 'Cause I know that the person listening is, if they're not a native speaker, they speak it fluently. Anne: Right, right, right. Pilar: So they're going to understand what I'm saying. 'Cause if I say Pilar Uribe, most of the people are going to go, huh? Anne: Right, right. Actually, when I used to work at, um, in radio at NPR in Miami, they would say, no, no, we want you to speak. We want you to say your name the way you say it. And I was like, oh, okay. That's kind of a switch, because I always say, you know, if I try to say Pi-lar Uribe, people still don't get it. So I always just say, Pilar You-ribe. And I get Mylar, people call me Laura. And you know, it's not a common word, Pilar, but for auditions, yeah. You can get away with saying your name. And in fact, when you slate, something that I like to do is I like to smile a little bit and do a slight shrug of my shoulders. So I go, so one way, for example, I'll say my name one way, Pilar Uribe, two Pilar Uribe, Pilar Uribe. So I just smiled a little bit and I shrugged my shoulders and that completely changes the attitude. Anne: Yep, sure does. Sure does. Pilar: Especially when you're doing a serious commercial copy or narration or a video game, it just kind of gives them, it shows them a little split second personality. Anne: A little bit of your personality. Yep, exactly. And I think that's important. It's the first words that they hear, so. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Those are great tips, Pilar. Wow. We could probably go on about auditioning for like a whole other episode. Pilar: We could. Anne: Yeah, we could. Great tips. Thanks so much. Fantastic, BOSSes. So next time you audition, make sure you give it a little bit of time before you rush in there and start voicing everything. Do some research, give a shrug, have a little bit of a smile in your slate. Make sure you follow those directions. BOSSes, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to a brand new sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. This is a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you. You can find out more by visiting 100voiceswhocare.org. Pilar: Ooh, I'm going to check that out. 100voiceswhocare.org. Anne: Yup. So this is a great way to make a difference without having to make a huge commitment. So you guys, check it out, make sure to check that out. Also big shout out to sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect a network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Go forth and do all the wonderful auditions, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye. Pilar: Hasta la vista, BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Although we wish it were true, companies don’t need VO produced 365 days a year. So what do you do when things are slow? Anne & Pilar have learned that the ebb and flow is all part of the biz. The amount of auditions you receive is not indicative of your worth, but it does feel good to be busy. Filling your time with classes, coaching, and market research during down time can prepare you for when the busy season comes again, but slow days can also be times to relax + restore your hard working voice, mind, and body like a true #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am super excited to be back with special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Hey Pilar. How are you today? Pilar: I am good, Anne, and it's, uh, it's a little slow today. Anne: Yeah. You know what? That happens in our industry. We have days where, gosh, every time I turn around, there's something else to do. And I love those days. They're crazy days. But then there are days when it's slow. Back in the early days, Pilar, I used to like question, oh my God is what's happening? Like, should I get out of the industry? Like I haven't heard from any of my clients. I didn't book any gigs today. So what do I even do? So that would be a good topic for discussion today. Pilar: It's funny because I think that voice actors tend to equate their worth with the amount of auditions they get, which has absolutely nothing to do with them. Anne: auditions and or jobs too. So don't forget about that. Right? 'Cause they're like, oh my God, it's been slow. I haven't, I didn't book anything. I didn't get any auditions. What am I doing wrong? Pilar: Exactly. And it generally, it has nothing to do with you. There are things that you can do of course, but just remember that it's not necessarily a reflection on your ability. It's just sometimes it's the wave of what the market is doing. Anne: Yeah. The wave of the market. Pilar: I mean, there, there have been so many waves when people didn't know what was happening. And so clients and companies are still trying to figure out where to put their advertising dollars, and then that's when you see, well, what's happening? Why isn't, why isn't this coming in? Anne: I know and then you immediately blame it on yourself. Pilar: Immediately. And that's so that's so unhealthy. Anne: Yeah. It's a good thing to remember. I tell people because we do our BOSS advertising, the BOSS Blast, and a lot of times it really comes down to like what you said about the market. It is so true. We are driven by the market, right? When the market needs voiceover, they buy, not that they're not going to completely not need voiceover any given day, but there are waves. And it's always good to remember that if you're getting auditions, or you're submitting to any particular clients, corporate clients, if you're doing your own marketing, a lot of times any one particular company doesn't need a voiceover necessarily every single day. They're advertising. I don't really know one company that's advertising every single day, like hiring a voice talent. Sure, they're advertising, but it might be print. It might be email. It might be social media. They may not always be hiring a voiceover talent every single day. So remember when you send that email or that advertisement or that email for your services, remember that not every company has a new commercial every day or has a new e-learning module to do today. And that has a lot to do with offers that may come by. It just may be a whole timing issue. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. And so when those days are slow -- Anne: What do we do? Pilar: What do we do, exactly. And so one of the things that you can do is look at the business of where you are in your voiceover career. Are you sending out emails? Are you -- Anne: What's your marketing plan? Pilar: What's your marketing plan? Are you being top of mind for certain people, without being a stalker, 'cause that's something that we have to be really aware of. If you've had a client that you worked with, let's say a year ago, and you haven't heard anything or you got a new demo and you can say, hey, I just did a spot and I have a new demo. There's certain things that you can do during the slow time, during the let's say holiday times or the winter or the summer months. I was just thinking about this one very specific, slow time of the year is let's say Christmas through New Year's -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- because nobody's thinking about that. Everybody's dealing with their Christmas presents or their Hanukkah or whatever they're getting into. Anne: Well, the majority. Pilar: The majority, true. If you're not religious, that's fine too. Anne: Yeah. International clients might be working. So there is that. Pilar: Right. Anne: Yeah. But generally slower. Pilar: It's generally slower because people don't have that. They're getting together with their families. They're planning trips. They're not necessarily thinking about the office work, and it's also end of year. So everybody's wrapping up their financial business. Anne: Well, yeah, and anything that is needed for the new year, or to end the year for the holiday, for example, any holiday advertising, hopefully they've taken care of that months before. Right? And so during that end of the year, they're hopefully planning for what's happening, you know, in the beginning of the following year. Pilar: Right. But they're not concerned with, oh, I need to hire this. They're not necessarily as concerned as they would be let's say in a heavier year for that particular company, that particular business. So it's a great opportunity to sit there and look at your plans. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. Look at where you are right now in your career and what can you do to grow? It's the most opportune time to market yourself or figure out, if you're not marketing yourself, how you can start or how you can market your better. Pilar: Exactly. So what can you do, let's say, in those slow months? Well, you can take a class, you can work on your craft. You can look at your emails from people you've done business with, people you want to do business with, do a little bit of research. Basically we are so lucky that we live in this day and age of the Internet, because all we have to do is Google a company and see what their practices are. You can see that the health and the range of a company you're going after, you know, XYZ company, say, well, what is it that they're, they're going after? What are their spots like? What are their radio spots like? What are their TV ads? What is their marketing push, and see what could be interesting for you, let's say if you're, if you're looking at a specific company. And then when you're looking at your own stuff, everyone has a different style. Some people are really organized. Some people are not. People have, you know, little tabs that they do. They have spreadsheets. Some people are fly by night. I'm a little bit of both. I like to make lists, but I'm not necessarily a spreadsheet kind of gal. So I'll sit there and look at -- I have a very specific list where I'll look at, you know, who have I heard from? Who have I not heard? Anne: I think it's a really good time to, if you don't have a CRM or if you either invest in a CRM or take a look at your list of clients that you do have. I have a couple of different CRMs that I work with, one of them specifically because I do a marketing program, the BOSS Blast for other clients. So I am looking at that CRM and finding out, when is the last time I contacted this person, if they're not on the list to get them on that list. And I love what you were talking about in terms of researching companies that you might want to try to reach out to and contact and investigate like what's their market like? What are their new products? What is their form of reaching out to potential clients? That's one of the things that I always tell my students to do is, hey, if you want to be aligned with a company, go check out their website, sign up for their mailing list. I know I'm like, I have so much email. This is why I have like 900,000 emails that are unread, but I sign up for a lot of company email lists so that I can find out how they are marketing. And this is part of my ongoing research anyway, to make sure that I'm current and relevant in the corporate realm of things, because I do a lot of corporate narration. But that also is a very good reference for commercials as well, because companies have products, and they advertise those products. So not just for corporate narrations but for commercials and basically all sorts of voiceover applications for researching companies and finding out who they're reaching out to. Maybe they're now reaching out to a younger demographic. So what does that mean for you? So keeping that research kind of at your fingertips can really help you for when you're auditioning starts picking back up or your jobs start picking back up because you're going to be really relevant and current with trends. And I think that that's so very important that you do that, especially if you're in the middle of your career, and you may not be actively coaching with anyone right now. It's something that I do almost on a daily basis. It's market research to find out what are the trends, what are, what's getting hired? How many people that I see posting on Facebook or that are just starting off that say they don't watch commercials. Oh my goodness, no. You have to watch commercials. That's like your homework. Pilar: Yeah. I think that that is just such a goldmine that people I don't think realize. And that's part of your homework. That's, as much as it is doing research on a company, it's being aware of like big events throughout the year. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Like the Olympics. Anne: Yeah. Cultural impact. Pilar: Like the Super Bowl. Like the Oscars, all those commercials that come on, inform us what the industries are interested in right now. Anne: And why am I watching the Super Bowl mostly this year? For the commercials? Pilar: Exactly. I don't want to downplay the, the actual Super Bowl -- Anne: Oh no, I'm not downplaying, but I -- look, if your team isn't in the Super Bowl, of course. Do you know what I mean? It's not, I'm not saying I'm not watching the Super Bowl for the Super Bowl, but I also, as much as I watch the Super Bowl for the Super Bowl, I watch it for the commercials. Pilar: Exactly. And it's so interesting when there's a big event going on, you're going to see the different patterns. Like for example, if you're watching the Olympics or any Olympics or any big event, whether it's the Emmys, or Country Music Awards -- Anne: Advertising changes, yeah. Pilar: -- they are focused. They have a very, very specific demographic that they're aiming for. So it's really key as a voiceover actor to see who are they aiming for and what is it that they want, and then contributing as part of that. Because if you don't put yourself in that whole part of the process, then you're missing out on a lot. So it's really important when you do have time to think of yourself as one of the cogs in the wheel that's getting this done as you are, you're planning your financial and your email marketing throughout the year. Anne: And speaking of spending time on yourself, right, while things are slow, you can absolutely take classes. There are so many wonderful opportunities out there for educating yourself and furthering your performance, furthering your, your business acumen, all types of classes that you can take, acting classes. You know, improv, we were just talking, we had a whole episode on improv, which was phenomenal. But yeah, doing something that can help you to really get your performance kicked up a notch so that you're ready for when those auditions do come around again. Pilar: Yeah. And even, even something as simple as yoga, tai chi, centering yourself, all of that is so important because that just adds, it just gives you colors and flavors. So when you go and you do an audition, it's basically like having your own proper tools to be able to stand in front of the booth when the time comes. Because for example, this has happened to me over and over again, where I'll get an audition the night before it's due the next day, you have to come up with this accent, or you have know about this product. And I'm like, I don't know about this product. So for me, like what you're doing in terms of looking at all those emails, all the marketing, seeing how these companies work, it basically for our general knowledge, it's always, it's always important to be sort of on the pulse of what's happening. Because when the time comes and you have that audition, you have to be able to just produce it, just like that, snap. So whatever it is, whether it's a new accent or it's a new product, or it's a new idea, and you're like, okay, what is this? So that, you know, you quickly have to Google, you want to be Googling and you want to be interested and looking at the world, because that's going to help you when you're sitting there by yourself, in the booth going, what is this? Anne: Oh, yes. Look at the, I like that. Look at while you're sitting there waiting, look at the world. That's such a cool concept though. Really, get out there and look at the world. And you know, what I really love too is if you're not watching television and listening to those commercials, right, which gives you a nice, I think, pulse on trends in voiceover coming up and as they are, you know, you can also go to a really great resource on the web, like YouTube or ispotTV is amazing if you want to go check out commercials. And you know what's interesting, really understanding and really listening. You know, how many times I've gone to, I spot and you listen to a commercial. You're like, okay, in my head, I hear it this way. But in reality, if you watch it, and I noticed that you had mentioned this before is to listen with no image, right? Don't look at it, but just listen to the voiceover. And I think that's a really, really great tip. I want you to just listen to the commercial and listen to the voiceover because there's so many times where we think we hear something, but yet when you really sit back and listen without any visual, without anything else that's disrupting your focus, you're going to be able to hear those nuances. And those nuances are so, so important. A lot of times with students, I'll be like, okay, go check out this YouTube. And I don't want you to watch it. I want you to just listen to the voice and how the notes are happening and the nuances and the emotion as this piece progresses. Listen to the nuances of the voice and how they are responding and telling the story and emoting and tugging at our heart strings. That I think is so, so important. That alone, if you spent a certain amount of time per day just doing that I think would really help your performance. Pilar: Yup. You would start knowing each company that advertises, they do have a signature. It's really subtle, but then you start learning what each company's signature is. And that's so important when you go into the booth because you know, when we go into the booth, we get a spot at 6:00, and everything's, it's always rushed. But if we take the time, when things are a little slower, and we're doing this on a daily basis -- again, I mean, I'm not saying spend all day watching TV, but you spend 10 minutes -- Anne: Consider it market research. Pilar: -- let's say a couple times a day in market research, it's for your own benefit. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Something that I, I really like doing, Anne, and I do this periodically is that I go over my old conference or class notes. How many times have you opened a book and go, oh yeah. I went to this class. Anne: That was a good class. I remember that. Yup. Pilar: Do I remember anything about it? No, probably not. But when I go and I look at my notes, I go, oh yeah, that, they made a really good point. That's really important. And I think that it's so important generally when you take a class, whatever it is. And let's say you write notes, go look at your notes immediately after you've taken the class, and then look at them again one week later. Because here's the thing about learning. You know, this, 'cause you have been an educator for such a long time. The very first time we get something or we hear it, we may not necessarily get it fully. Anne: Yeah. Get 100% of it. Yep. Pilar: So to maybe see it again, we need to -- Anne: Go back, review. Pilar: -- read it again. We need to explain it to somebody because that's when it really sinks in. Anne: Sure, if you have to teach -- that's so funny that you mentioned that because one of the things that I used to do when I was a teacher in front of the class was we would have project days where the students would propose to me something that they wanted to do for their grade, like a project. And so a lot of times I would say, all right, if you want to learn this, then I want you to teach it to me, teach it back to me. So that's a really great tip there is to go back and review because you'll, you'll get all those nuances that you might've missed the first time. It's like watching a great movie, right? When you watch it a second, third, fourth time, you get all the other nuances that you miss the first time. And that I think is a great analogy to reviewing your notes. And even if you have a recording of the session, I get a lot of conferences where I get the recordings, which I can look at later. Now how many times have you ordered a course online and then you forgot about it. Right? I actually have multiple courses. I actually have a bookmark of places to go where I've bought courses that I need to go and take, or I need to go back and listen again. And so I'm going to say probably that's going to be one of the biggest, best tips that we can give, because I know it's not just me that's kind of addicted once in a while of I want to learn this, let me buy this course. And then I promptly make a log-in, a password, and then I forgot about it until three months later. And then I'm like, oh wait, I bought that course. Let me go and actually take it. So that's a perfect thing to do when things are slow, make sure you have a place -- you know, I just have a bookmark of, of courses. And so it just reminds me to go back and revisit those courses again and again, and get my money's worth. Pilar: And get your money's worth, but also for me, it's always about how can I use it in the booth because it's that moment -- you know, VO BOSSes, I know you faced this. You're sitting in your booth and you're going, I don't know how to relate to this copy, or I'm tired. I want to go to bed. I'm falling asleep, but you have to push through because it's due at a certain hour. So it's, it's basically having those tools. And that's why it's so important to listen over and over to these things again, because they're all there to help you give your best performance in the booth, whether you're auditioning or whether you're working, we talk a lot about auditioning, but then you get the job, then what you do? So you, you have to be able to have all those tools at your disposal. So having that downtime enables us to be able to kind of just sort of hone them. It's kind of like, you know, filing your nails. Anne: You know what's so interesting too? You know what else you can do in your downtime? Pilar: Yeah? Anne: You can actually like take some downtime. Pilar: This is very true. Anne: That is actually going to -- like for me, like I'm working, working, working, working, working, and then all of a sudden, whoa. Now what? Actually, like, I don't know, take a nap, go play with your fur babies, watch a great movie. I always love to watch good movies to get inspired, listen to great commercials, that sort of thing. I watch the Dodo videos, which are all about animals, you know, being saved and helped and goodness with animals. And that always just gets me emotionally, and it makes me happy. And believe it or not, that helps my performance in the booth. So yeah, take some actual time for yourself as well, because it's important for you to refresh. Whatever, whatever it takes for you to feel good, go for a run, get on the treadmill, go floating, so many things, right, that can really just help you refresh and be -- live in the moment. You know, spend time with your family, go on a vacation. Pilar: And also it's knowing that slow time is not a reflection on your performance or your ability or anything, any of that. Anne: Right. Unless that slow time is extended like for six months or so. I mean, you, you want to make sure that that slow time -- but you know, I'll tell you what, a few days here and there a week, you know, it's, it's very, very common. So I remember those first in my career, first of all, if you can stick out your career, right, and you're in it for the long haul, you'll start to learn that these ebbs and flows are normal, and you'll get more used to them. You'll get better at, I think, working through them. But in the beginning, guys, it's okay. It happens. I know so many people that will come to me, like, I don't know, what am I doing wrong? It's just slow. And I'm like, well, you know, it's been a little bit slow. So, you know, give yourself some grace, right? And in the meantime, here's what you can do. The first thing is always educate, educate, educate, right? Educate yourself. Either build a CRM, educate yourself about your clients, educate yourself about the market, what's trending, take a class. Right? All of the things that we've already talked about, work on your marketing that can help you to educate and grow. It's just the best thing that you can do, whatever you can do to grow. Even if that means taking some time off, right? To relax and get your mental health back because it's so delicate, I think, in the beginning for people who are not used to this industry, right? It's very much a mental game, very much a mental game of confidence. And you need to know that it's okay, that you will have slow days, and you need to be able to do what you can to push through them, to build up your confidence, to build up your performance, do whatever you can to grow, grow, grow. And don't let it, you know, don't let the mind start to play tricks on you. Pilar: Something, I think that's also really important is reaching out for help. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: Because for years I didn't have a voice over agent in Miami. I just basically found the jobs by myself. I had an on-camera agent, but I didn't have a voiceover agent. So when I came to Los Angeles, I got a voiceover agent really quickly. And then I noticed that I, I worked and worked and worked on my auditions, and I started thinking, oh my gosh, what's, what's wrong? So I actually reached out to my agents and I said, okay, I'm not booking, what do I do? Anne: What a great idea. Pilar: And so they were so helpful, and they each had just one or two lines. I mean, you know, they're so busy. It's not like they have a whole bunch of time, but they suggested I get with a few coaches. I had actually gone to one or two that they mentioned, but then I went to some others. They had some really good, it's very short sentences of critiques. And I just took that. And I was like, okay, great. And I'm going to work on it. Anne: Yeah, I love that. Pilar: And I worked on it. Anne: I love that you reached out to your agents. I think people tend to forget that it is a two-way street. You guys are partners. And you know, I think it's wonderful. If your agent can take a moment and give you feedback. And I think any good agent will do that to help you, because you guys are partners. I mean, you help them make money. They help promote you. So I think that it's, it's important that you do reach out for help. And you know what, reach out for help from your peers too. I think peer groups can really help when things get tough -- Pilar: People that you trust, people that you trust. Anne: People that you trust, and when you get down on yourself or maybe you're, you're lacking confidence, a group like that can help. It's one of the reasons why I put together the VO Peeps group so long ago. We were also isolated and it was to have a community which we could lift each other up. And I think that that is, that is absolutely important, when things get slow and you start silently going, oh my God, do I even belong in this industry? That's time to reach out, you know, reach out to your community, reach out for help. We're all here for you. BOSSes. We're here for you. So you can always reach out and come to us for encouragement, confidence to lift each other up. Pilar: And if you don't see something like that in your community, go ahead and start one. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because for example, I, I, one day I just kind of lucked into this play reading class. They read new plays. It's every couple of weeks. And I go and I read. They give me a role and I read. Is there any monetary gain? No. Do I get a lot out of it? I get to read out loud. That's just priceless. I'm going to start another new reading accountability class. Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Pilar: Just to read. D Anne: Don't let your auditions be your practice ground. Do you know what I mean? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Like I think that, you -- remember, your auditions or your work so glad you brought that up because you know, like I tell my students every day -- I give them enough homework, you know, I just like, I don't want you to be bored ever. You need to do something every single day that is voiceover related, and you need to practice. I think if you're at a certain level, it's wonderful to have that support of the community and to be able to work out and perform in front of each other. Be careful because depending on the group, you want to make sure you have somebody that has some experience in there that can give you some critique that is valuable to you. I think if there's a ton of, you know, maybe beginners in the peer group, it may not be as effective as it could be with somebody that has some experience in casting or directing. But it is so very valuable for you to practice that read every day. And don't let that be on your auditions. Really. Pilar: Yes. Anne: If you can spend 20 minutes a day just reading scripts, I think that that really, really helps, and also working out, it's another, again, another reason why I have VO Peeps, and we have workouts every month. We have a couple of different workouts every month. It's just so, so valuable to keeping those, those skills honed, and you know, and in check. So. Pilar: And I will give a tip that I think is probably the most important tip that I will give. If you have a cat, you can read to him. Anne: I love it. I love it. Yes. You can read to your fur babies. And your babies. Pilar: I just did that last night. I'm preparing a monologue for an audition. And I was like, you know what? He's right there. What the heck, why not? Anne: They're our biggest supporters. Pilar: They are. Anne: What a great conversation, Pilar. Great tips. Thank you so much. I'm excited. So remember guys, when things are slow, they don't have to be slow. You've got a lot of, you've got a lot of stuff to do. There's a lot of alternatives here. Pilar: You have a lot of homework. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: That's important. Anne: There you go. So I would like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. This is a unique chance, guys, for you to use your voice and make a difference and give back to the communities that give to you. You can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. Also love to give a great, big shout-out to our long-time sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect, and network like BOSSes like Pilar and I. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. We'll see you next week. Pilar: I'm so glad we had this time together. Anne: Good bye, goodbye. Pilar: Goodbye. Anne: Bye, guys. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

As a voice actor, you are often given the power (and burden) of setting your own rates. Now, where to begin? Anne & Pilar have been through taking low paying gigs, walking away from jobs, and even getting their way in financial negotiations. It all comes down to knowing your worth. Tune in to learn how to navigate price setting, negotiating with clients, finding strength in community, and getting paid as much as you are worth like a #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and with me today is very, very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar!   Pilar: Aloha. Anne: Hello, how are you? Pilar: I'm doing great today. And how are you doing? Anne: I am doing good. I'm doing really good. Except, ugh, I had a client that I had to let go the other day. Pilar: Why? Anne: Well, it was a new client that we were in a negotiation phase, and they wanted to kind of lowball me on a job. And it just turned out that what they wanted to pay, what their budget was, just did not align with where I am. And I was really standing tall and standing by what I'm worth. And I think that's a very valuable lesson that we should talk about for the BOSSes today is to know your worth. It is so very important. It's so hard to say no, to walk away from a client. Like it's terrifying I think for anybody starting out in the industry, right, to give up on an opportunity, especially when you felt like, well, I'm just getting started. I need the experience. Pilar: I wish I had known you when I was getting started, because I can't tell you how many times that happened to me. And it's interesting that you bring this up, Anne, because a lot of the times when we are starting out or let's say, you know, we've worked -- I did a lot of dubbing where the rates were standardized in Miami. Anne: So you didn't negotiate it. They were just, this is what we're paying you. Pilar: Exactly. So it's like, take it or leave it. And I was like, okay. But I think that voice actors sometimes think that there's something wrong with them because they don't know how to negotiate. And I think it's so important because this is such an industry where there is no standard set of -- there is a standard set of rates, yes, for the industry, but everybody offers a different price. So it really is up to you, the voice actor to figure out what it is that you are worth and to know how to negotiate. And so it's a skill that's learned. You may go into it, not knowing how to negotiate, but that doesn't make you any less of a voice actor. It's just, it's, it's a skill that has to be learned and it takes time. It's not something that happens immediately. Anne: It does. I think it's a skill that takes a little bit of practice. And I think you just have to be courageous. You have to be brave. And first of all, I want to just separate out, if you have an agent, the agent's job is to negotiate on your behalf, which is amazing. I love my agents who negotiate on my behalf. That's what they do. They get the work and then they negotiate the best price for us. And they're looking out for our best interests, hopefully for the most part, right? They're looking out for us getting the best price for who we are so they know what we're worth. So think about it. If you're put in a position where you are negotiating, and this job may not have come through an agent and you're got somebody that's inquiring on your website, I'd like to use your voice for this particular job, how much, that's where you have to stand firm in understanding that you are worthy of a fair market price, and a great place to go find out a baseline of rates is of course the GVAA, right? Who doesn't love the GVAA rate guide. There's also Gravy for the Brain. They have some good international rates there and SAG-AFTRA too. Pilar: SAG by the Numbers is the website. And I think that going to those different places gives you a gauge. So that will give you the confidence to be able to say, okay, this is how much I can command. Instead of taking the number out of a hat or allowing somebody to steam roll you. Anne: Yeah. It gives you a baseline. And I think too, the first time you say no, and then you're terrified, right, when you say no, or you walk away, and you're like, oh my gosh, I'll never get work in this town again. Because I've either made an assumption that is too large of a number, and everybody's laughing at me now because they're like, no, I can't pay that number -- that is part of the negotiation game, really. And you have to know that even if you're a beginner, you deserve as much as I do. I think we all deserve as much as the next person in terms of rates. Because there's so many new performers or new businesses, new voiceover artists that come to the game and say, well, I don't have the experience. You're not being hired for your experience. As a matter of fact, you're being hired for your voice and your performance. And your voice is just as worthy as my voice. So don't feel as though you cannot charge the same rate as I can. And I'm a big proponent of that because if you're not, and you're trying to undercut because you either feel you're not worthy, or maybe you just want to get the job, that doesn't do any favors to the industry either, bidding low. Because in reality, it's a market perception. I want to always bring it back to lipsticks or shoes. I have certain brands that I love, and I spend money for those brands. Let's say, maybe not lipstick or shoes, but yes, hair, but let's maybe talk tech, right? My Apple computer, my Apple iPhone. I buy brands and I pay the money. I pay the money. And so think of your voiceover business, the same way. I used to call myself Tiffany's. I don't go on sale. And I don't advertise my brand to be cheap. So anybody out here, you can do the very same. Now I'm not going to price myself out of, you know, I'm not going to be crazy high or anything, but that's where the rate guides come in handy. Right? You get a good baseline, and you take the chance to negotiate with a client. And most of the time, the best question that you can ask for this when you're starting in negotiation is do you have a budget? Okay? So if you're putting the position where they're asking you, how much would it cost? The best question to ask is, do you have a budget? Because sometimes their budget is a whole lot more than you thought. Um, that's happened to me multiple times. Well, I can't go over a $1000. Okay. I'll take that for a two-minute medical narration read. That's awesome. Yeah. I think I can make that work. That's what I've been known to say. And so it's a rule in negotiation that the person who mentions money first is usually the one that loses. So, so, there you go. So always have the question in the back of your head to ask if there is a budget. And then after that, if there is no budget, then go ahead and bid high or on the higher side of the range. Usually the rate guides, right, if you've looked at them, have ranges. Like a five minute corporate read could be $350 to $550 or whatever that is. Bid on the higher end. Because when you're starting a negotiation start high, because then the only place to go is not necessarily higher. Client's not going to say, oh no, let me pay you $800 instead of $500. Usually they're going to negotiate down. So pick the higher number that doesn't price you out of the competition like crazy and stand true to that. Because honestly, Apple doesn't care about, do you know what I mean? They're like your new iPhone is $2,000 or whatever it is, right? It's the price is that. And we choose to accept it or not. And so you as a business, same kind of thing. Pilar: Yeah. 'Cause it's like, when you go in and you buy a dress, and they tell you it's $100 or $500, you're not going to go and say, oh, can I buy $50 for the sleeve? No. Anne: Can I haggle that price? You might be able to haggle the price in some places, but not most stores that are retail. Pilar: Generally it's like, they're not going to sit there and give you half a dress because you're not going to -- Anne: At a garage sale maybe. Pilar: Maybe. Anne: Or consignment. You can negotiate those things down, but -- Pilar: We can start a trend, sleeves, just buying the sleeves. Yeah. But that's generally not going to happen. Anne: I'll take just the sleeve, please. Pilar: Exactly. Something, I think that's important though to mention is knowing your worth, yes, but also knowing your worth as to where you are and not trying to oversell yourself because I've seen this happen over and over where somebody throws out a number and then it turns out that they don't have a professional recording studio, for example. So there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I know, I do know people who've actually worked with their USB mics. Great. So you need to be able to show your potential client, this is my studio. This is what my studio looks like. This is what my noise floor is. This is what my software is, everything. And then that way they know what they're dealing with instead of sort of projecting something that might not be true. Anne: I agree. But I feel that before you're in that position, right, before you're in the position of actually negotiating a job, you're going to make sure, hopefully, that you have a studio that can create great audio. But I totally agree with you there. If you're just starting out and you haven't had anybody evaluate that, that's one thing I think that's important, especially now, since the pandemic. We're all expected to have a quality space where we can generate great audio from. So yeah. Very important. Very important for you guys to know that. And yeah, you're right. There's that argument that demos don't necessarily showcase what your sound is like from the booth. I've actually known people to put sound files on their website. Here's what my booth sounds like, as kind of a precursor. And I actually think that's not a bad idea. I don't have it on my own website right now, but I actually thought about, here's a noise floor or here's a, here's a quick sample from my booth so you know what you're getting. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really important to show who you are, because just like when you walk into a store, you're seeing what the ground is like, the arrangement of the clothing, and the register, is the floor clean. So you want to be able to, since you are projecting a business out onto the world stage of voiceover, because you don't know who it's going to be reaching, you know, you want to have your office in order. And then that, that makes it just that much easier to be able to negotiate and to stand up for yourself. Anne: The presentation of a professional. I love that. Because they want to know that they're dealing with a business, right, that takes it seriously. Gosh, that brings up a whole other whole other side of things. So too like your website, right, you should have a domain name that is yourbusiness.com, anneganguzza.com. And that storefront should absolutely showcase who you are to the world professionally. A lot of times when I go to buy a product, right, online -- isn't that what we do all the time? Pilar: We Google people, we Google the product. Anne: We go to the website, we look at the -- if the website looks any kind of cheesy at all or not trustworthy, I don't buy. And so that's such a great thing that you brought up for people to understand that that helps so much in your negotiation, that you are representing yourself as a professional business. And I think it does help also in the negotiation process if, if you're known to be a full-time voice talent. If you're not, you don't necessarily have to state that. You just have to look like this is your business, and this is what you do. Sometimes I'll, if a customer's or a potential client is reaching out to me, I might throw in there full-time voice talent, just so they know that's all I do. Like I'm not, you know, doing three different jobs, and this is my business and this is how I make a living. So that's a -- what a great point that was, Pilar to present professional. Pilar: Yeah. You have to present yourself as a professional because otherwise, you know, you're not going to be taken seriously. You reminded me of when I was in my agent's office for the first time, and they were sweet as can be. And one of them was busy, and she was like, you know, don't pay attention to me because I've got all this stuff to do. Obviously she had a huge job that she had to get out at a certain time. And the only thing she said at the end, she piped up and she said, oh, we've looked at your website. We've listened to all of your material. Anne: Oh, don't you worry. Pilar: And I was like -- and it was just so interesting, 'cause I was like, oh, these people did their homework. So if somebody's looking at your stuff, believe me, they are checking you out regardless of -- Anne: Whether you know it or not. Pilar: Whether you know, but also it's, it's also a question of it doesn't have to be the fanciest thing or it doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles, just like a voiceover booth doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles. The important part is are you producing sound quality where you can literally hear where it's so quiet that you don't even hear a fish fart? I mean, I know of, I know this one very well known voice actor who does promos inside his car, and he is just fixed it so he's got the microphone, he does it in a certain way because a lot of the times he's driving, and he needs to do something. Anne: But yeah, he's not going to audition while he's driving. Just, just, just want to -- Pilar: No, no -- Anne: Just want to say that. Pilar: -- obviously, no he stops on the side of the road. He's out here and he'll have something from New York that's due at a certain time. He will stop on the side of the road. He's got his whole little preparation. I don't know what he does, but he's got a whole preparation. He does it. He sends it off. The promo gets aired that night. So it's really about, can you, you know, can you come up with the goods, and the goods are showing yourself, as you know, as I've been saying -- Anne: As a professional. Pilar: -- as a professional, this is, this is what my space is. This is where you can find my work. It's all here. It's all out on the table. It's, it'll be really easy to find. So you can hire me, and you can negotiate with me because I have all these parts of the puzzle. Anne: All the parts of the puzzle are together. Yeah. That -- absolutely. It's such a cool side piece that you don't think about, right, when you're talking about knowing your worth. I mean, understanding that you're prepared to deliver quality, audio quality performance from a quality storefront or booth, right? And also I am going to go so far as to say that your website says a lot about who you are professionally. And that has a lot to do with the power you can have in negotiation and also helping yourself know your worth. If you yourself are committed to doing this for a living and making money at it, then that is step one of knowing that you are worthy of getting paid for it and getting paid well for it, getting paid fairly. We can only hope that every job we do, we get paid well. And I will tell you, in the beginning, when I first started out in the industry, I didn't have a concept of what my worth was. And to be honest, there wasn't, you know, so long ago that there weren't many groups out there online. Again, this, one of the reasons why I created VO Peeps back in the day was to have a community online that we could talk and say, well, what did you charge? How do you handle negotiation? What is this job worth? And so now we have so many resources available at our fingertips. It only just says to me even more that we have to even more be vigilant about understanding who we are, what we're worth in this industry. And not that we even have to convince, but just showcase that we are worthy of getting paid something that's more than, oh my gosh, something like 8 cents a word. No, not at all. Those jobs exist. And those are the ones that you don't necessarily -- for me, I try not to align myself with jobs like that because if the client doesn't value the service, right, to begin with, and they're putting out budgets that don't value the service -- maybe they truly don't have the budget. But again, I think a budget is all in what you, all in what you make of it, right? I pay good money for certain services so that I can depend on them. And the same thing should be thought of you, right? So if your potential client doesn't value the service that you provide, then maybe you don't want to align yourself with them or work with them because trust me, there will be somebody out there that does value you and the courage that it takes for you to say no to those clients that don't value your services -- once you say no, it gives you the biggest sense of -- well, you're scared and you're terrified, but it allows the door to open for people who do value your services and that leaves the room for them to come in and pay you what you're worth. So I can't tell you -- you'll do it one time. And then that door will open and you will get paid by someone who believes in you and values your worth. And then that will give you all the confidence you need to go and just negotiate and understand your worth and put out those prices, put out those quotes that are worthy of your time, because you spent a lot of money. You spent a lot of time to get to where you are. There's training, there's demos, there's practice, there's you, your personal investment is what people are paying for, right? Your personal investment. And that is worth something. Pilar: Absolutely. I totally agree. Something also that I have found when I used to negotiate back in Miami, is that no doesn't always mean no forever. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because there's a way to stand your ground because a lot of things can happen between the time that a number's thrown out and you walk away. And I've had that happen to me more than once where I don't necessarily say, I'm not going to take any less. I say, this is my price. Anne: Yup. Pilar: And I've learned that from some amazing voiceover people in the industry when I was very, very green and I went to my first couple of conferences. I learned from them that they stand their ground basically. And they just, they stand up for themselves and they say, this is what I charge. And they're very, very specific. And there is room, there is wiggle room, and it is very important to throw out a decent number and not too low, but obviously not out of the range, but when you're in that negotiating stage, I've actually had people come back and say, okay, all right, let's do it. Anne: Yeah. I agree. Pilar: So it's just kind of funny. So it's just, maybe there's also a mental sort of attitude to have about that saying this is who I'm worth. So you're not necessarily closing the door, but basically saying, here, I invite you to partake of my services for this amount. Again, it doesn't happen always, but sometimes there's a door that can stay open. Anne: Sure, absolutely. I totally agree with that. And people might have gone and they had a budget that was lower. And so they went and hired somebody with that lower budget and they weren't as happy. Right? So they come back to you, and that has happened to me multiple times too. And again, it's one of those things where you have to have the confidence, and guys, if you're just starting out and you don't have the confidence, it's okay. We all were there. We were all there once. Right? You just have to take the step. You've got to have the courage to take the step, to stand by what you're worth and walk away if the client doesn't bite. And, and the thing of it is too, usually the clients that are offering a lower price are usually the ones that will nickel and dime you for everything. And I have run into that. I have lowered my price. You know, I've worked with a client's budget. I -- here's my number. We negotiated. And they said, I only have this. And I thought, okay, all right, I'll work with you. And it might've been lower than I would have wanted. At some point you get an idea, a sense of who this client will be. Sometimes clients will just, if they get that low ball price, they're just going to be painful. They're going to be painful clients that will want everything for no money. And you only have to work with a couple of those, like maybe one of them once. And you'll be like, okay, never again, never again, because the amount of time that you spent trying to please that client at that low rate could be better spent working with a client who did value you or does value you and doesn't try to nickel and dime you for a bunch of pickups afterwards. Pilar: You have to know when to walk away. Absolutely. But it's also an attitude that I think is so important. As we've been saying throughout this time, this is what I'm worth, here I am. When you walk into a, an Apple store, you know exactly what you're getting into. Anne: Apple doesn't go on sale, right? Pilar: Exactly. It's like, what you see is what you get. Anne: Chanel lipstick does not go on sale. I'm just saying, I am just saying, I have bought Chanel lipstick before. They do not go on sale. And the funny thing is, is in a way, it makes me relieved because I feel like sometimes when things do go on sale all the time, I'm like, oh my God, let me wait until the right price comes. But Chanel, they're just, I know they're dependable. I love them. They've got my colors. They last, and they're worth the money. And so think of that client hiring you. It's going to be, you know what, Anne, whatever, can you do this job? Sure. Give me an invoice. I love clients like that because that means that you've worked with them enough. They trust you. And they're just like, okay, whatever. They know they're going to get good value from you. And so it is something to be said to work with quality clients, rather than trying to just work your way up. And as I mentioned, I really, in the beginning I did, I didn't know better, but now BOSSes, we can't be the only podcast or the only people who have said know your worth. However, this is just another step where if you've listened to this podcast, you have to know your worth. You have no excuses now to take something that does not pay you what you are worth. And maybe you need the experience of working with a client who may not pay you what you think you're worth. And that's okay, because that's a learning and a growing experience for you. But we're here to tell you that you don't really have to go through that if you don't want to, because you, you are worthy, you are worthy of a fair price. Pilar: Yeah. I think it's really important to visualize yourself as a -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: Just because we are a voiceover, we are a brick and mortar store. We just do it from our own area. But why not visualize yourself as an Apple versus a -- Anne: Tiffany's, Apple, Chanel. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. You don't have to be a 7-11. I mean, 7-11 is great when you're, when you want a Slurpee, but why not visualize yourself as, as you know, this is who I am and this is what I have to offer? Anne: That's so important. I got so excited because you said visualize that you are worthy or manifest. Pilar: Yes. Anne: It's so important, manifest that you are worthy of it. And that will carry you really far, that whole belief and the manifestation that you are worthy of it will carry you really far in this industry. I just had to agree with you wholeheartedly. Pilar: And also that you are a working actor. Anne: Yes. Pilar: That you are a working voiceover actor capable of taking these jobs. I think that people think that when they visualize -- and you know, we could spend a whole podcast on this -- I think people think that when they visualize something, that all of a sudden it's just going to magically like [snaps], like that. That is not what happens when you see yourself and you present yourself. You put it out into the universe; it's not necessarily going to come back immediately, but it does come back. Because if you had told me over 12 years ago that I would be making a living doing voiceover -- Anne: Oh my gosh. Pilar: -- I would have said, are you kidding? There's no way. I'm an actor. I've done on camera. And I love this business. I just kept putting one foot in front of the other, seeing myself do this. And so there really is something to be said. It does take patience though. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So, you know, you, you can get there and you can see yourself taking those steps. And once you're there, you can accept it. You can say, yep, it's done. It's done. And you just, what we're saying about knowing your worth is just that much closer to what it is that you want to accomplish. Anne: Yep. Yep. That successful business. And that's so funny. Like think of when you first started in this business. Did you ever believe -- like when I first started, I didn't really have a thought one way or the other. I just knew that I was passionate about it, and I just kept putting my head down and working. However, I will tell you in the beginning, it was a very different environment because coming from a corporate background, which I came from, you know, where that paycheck was given to me every two weeks or whatever, and I knew that money was coming -- coming into the entrepreneurship, and now all of a sudden being put in a position where I had to negotiate, my price was, oh my goodness. Like before people told me what I was worth, because I got a paycheck for it. Now it was me there to determine what was my worth. It's so interesting to go from the mentality of here, I've arranged a salary, and I work for this particular salary, and that's what I'm worth, to an environment and an entrepreneurship where I am determining what is my worth. That's a whole big pedagogical shift in your brain. And so yes, it takes time to learn how to do that. And it's okay guys. Just remember, there's always clients out there. I think if you make a choice, and you're brave, and you walk away from one client, there's always another client around the corner that opens the door for more clients and more work. You just have to manifest, and believe, and take that leap of faith. Pilar: Something definitely that you can learn to do. Anne: Good stuff, good stuff. Wow. So BOSSes, know your worth. You are worthy. So on that note, if you also want to make a difference and use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world, that will give back to the communities that are close to you, you can find out more and how to do that at 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Wonderful, wonderful new sponsor. BOSSes, literally it takes less than a dollar a day, and you can make a humongous difference in a local organization of your choice. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. Also, thank you so much to our amazing sponsor ipDTL, because I get to talk to Pilar every week, and we get to talk about really cool things about how wonderful you guys all are and how we are worthy. We are worthy. Much, much support, and thanks to ipdtl.com. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye! Pilar: Goodbye, guys. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Every script is the answer to a question. It’s up to the actor to discover (and sometimes create) that question. In this episode, Anne & Pilar are here to keep you on your toes with improv techniques + exercises. They will teach you how to stay fresh with your reads, and - more importantly - why it’s necessary to know the script, scene, and emotions for everything you read. Whether it be E-Learning, IVR, or commercial, you’ll be ready to tackle it with authentic reactions + diverse copy interpretations like a #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast, con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey Pilar. I'm trying to figure out how to lead into today's episode. And I've been thinking about different scenes that maybe I could place myself in. So maybe I'll come at the introduction not like I've come at the introduction like people expect, so I want to do something different. So what are you thinking? Where can I start? Pilar: Where can you start? "Let's start at the very beginning. A very good place to start." What's that from? Anne: I'm on a mountainside. Pilar: No, quick, what's that from? Anne: No wait. Okay. I'm on a mountain side in the sun and I'm feeling like I'm very happy, and I want to sing because I dunno, I like to sing when I'm happy. Pilar: And you're twirling your arms. Anne: I am twirling my arms, and I'm going to not have a dress on with an apron. Okay. So, well, let's just put it this way. I'll have a dress on that really works with the twirl, but it won't have an apron on. Pilar: Nix the apron, okay. Anne: And I'm going to be young with long flowing hair. Pilar: Long blonde flowing hair. Anne: Yep. That's it. That's it. And there's going to be animals. Pilar: Okay. Anne: There's going to be, well, there'll be cats. Of course. Actually -- Pilar: How about llamas? How about llamas? Anne: Okay, cats and llamas I think go well, lots of cats. Pilar: Except that llamas spit. Anne: Yeah, but they're not going to spit on the cats. They're going to spit on me because maybe I'm not in tune. Pilar: You're going to ride off into the sunset on top of a llama. Anne: But then I'll make friends with the llama, and I will carry the cats in my arms and hop on the llama, and ride off into the sunset because I've had a wonderful morning and day of singing on the mountain side. Pilar: And you're singing "Do, a deer" at the same time.   Anne: Yes, exactly. Wow. Pilar: That's improv. Anne: Hey BOSSes. That's improv with that said, hey, everyone. I completely was so in the scene that I forgot my introduction. Pilar: You forgot who you were. Anne: I forgot who I was for just a moment. So here we go. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, up on the mountain, singing and twirling with my cats and llamas, along with my special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, come to the mountain and sing with me. Pilar: "The hills are alive with the sound of llamas." Anne: -- "VO BOSSes." Pilar: "Llamas and VO BOSSes." Anne: So Pilar, that was fun. Pilar: That was fun. Anne: I think understanding and practicing improv can really, really help us in our performance and in our business. So I think we should have today's episode featuring improv, and talking about improv, and how can we better our performances with improv? Pilar: Yes. Improv is something that I -- it's funny, 'cause I've always been scared of it, and I've never really understood it, although I've done it most of my acting career without realizing it. It's just really funny. We improv all the time in our lives when we're talking. So improv is all about taking what somebody is saying and you keep going. It's that? Yes. And moment with improv. That's that's like the biggest rule. Anne: Yes, and. Pilar: Yes, and, meaning -- Anne: Yes, and, and then what happens? Pilar: And then you add onto the story, and the intent is to be positive always. I mean, unless it's a tragedy kind of a thing which improv is, is really about it's taking whatever that person gives you and running with it, however you're going to do it, so. Anne: Well, I think it needs to fit into the context, right? So if we're going to try to improv and get ourselves into a scene for a script that already sits in front of us, so that maybe we can improve our auditions, right, there is some context to the script. Maybe we should just talk from genre specific right now, like commercial or corporate or e-learning, those types of -- versus character-driven spots like animation and video games. We can talk about that in a minute, but let's focus on the genres where people go in, and they have a commercial audition to get out the gate. Right? What is it that we're going to do once we look at the context of the script there, how are we going to work the improv into it? Pilar: What I've learned early on is it's so important to have a moment before. Anne: Yes. Agreed. Pilar: Especially if it's a product, let's say, that you don't know much about, or it's a storyline, let's say it's a medical narration, for example. And you're kind of, you know, what is this drug that has seven syllables? And I don't even know how to pronounce it. Well, you have to come in, if you're talking from a voice of authority, you have to come in with that knowledge. Anne: Right. Pilar: Now, you don't necessarily have to have knowledge of that particular drug. You can use something else that you have knowledge about. And then you set the stage by making up like a little sort of maybe 15-second play, which can be your lead-in which you don't have to record, but you're making the story up about this particular product and how it affected you. And you basically just start doing storytelling. Anne: Well, I think that's absolutely wonderful advice. And I think too, again, going with the context of it, let's kind of go with the medical, right? Because I do a lot of medical work, medical narration. I think it's important to know that in this storyline who you're talking to, and a lot of times people will, if want it to be conversational, they'll say something like, oh, as if you're talking to your best friend, but I think you need to go deeper into this, because you want to talk to a person that's genuinely going to be interested in that product because your task in most copy like that is either going to be to educate or to sell. So you need to be very clear as to who you're speaking with. And I think that that needs to come into your improv, understanding that let's say you might be a pharmaceutical representative, that's coming into an office and speaking to a doctor who might be interested in this particular medicine that might be able to help his patients. And so going with that, setting that scene and then improv-ing in that before you even open your mouth, because that will help you develop a point of view that makes sense and an emotion that makes sense and a voice that makes sense for that scene. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. Very true. And what you were saying, which ties right into that is the more specific you are, the better. Anne: Yes. Agreed. Pilar: A lot of the times, if you're doing medical copy -- let's say you've got the job. It's not like you're going to rewrite it or change, necessarily change the words, but you can give it a little bit of flavor by imagining different scenarios while you're speaking. Anne: And thinking of different subtexts too. Pilar: Yeah. Even like, you know, breaths or -- Anne: Rhythm. Pilar: Yeah. And just like little inflections that aren't necessarily in the script itself are going to give it a different flavor. Anne: I like that. Pilar: Yeah. So because it can't be all about the reading. It's -- there has to be -- a lot of people say, oh, well, you know, they, they won't let me improv. And it's like, it's not necessarily, it's about using those moments of improv where you can just kind of give a little inflection here, do a little something over there. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Like that scene is playing while you are voicing the script, right? There's a scene that's playing. And so that improv, it doesn't necessarily have to come out in words, right? The improv, like you said, can be in breaths. It can be in rhythm. It can be in, again, if it's a medical narration and you're informing somebody about the capabilities of the product, right, it can be that subtext where maybe you're looking at the person that you're speaking to and they're not quite understanding. So you become more confident or you've slowed down on that explanation a little bit more. And so the subtext is, let me help you understand better what I'm saying. And so that improv comes into your scene, as you are voicing and into the storyteller, the sell of the spot. It really is something that I think adds a really nice layer and a realistic, authentic layer to when you are voicing. And this, by the way, does not allow you any time to listen to what you sound like. Again, I say this over and over and over again. Right? You cannot listen to what you sound like and say, oh, does that sound like they want it? No, you have to be in that improv, that story, in that scene, and really being there and telling the story. Pilar: I just want to clarify something for the VO BOSS warriors, that everyone thinks of improv as Second City or Saturday Night Live, but improv, you can use some of those rules and those tips of improv to give your script a different flavor, whether it's medical narration, whether it's e-learning, whether it's even, let's say, IVR, and you're saying, you know, "please hold." You know, you don't have to sound like the mechanical thing that you've always heard. If you maybe make a joke to yourself right beforehand, or you imagine something very specific. Anne: Imagine the person that's picking up the phone and listening to you and they're angry. Pilar: There you go. Anne: Because they want to speak to a person, right? So you're in that scene, and they're screaming at the other end. Right? And you're like, "thank you for calling. Your call is important to us." So as they're screaming, so it can change your voice. Right? It can change the way you're responding in a very interesting way, because I always used to say that I love telephony because I imagine that that person is on the other end of the line, and that they're not happy and they're concerned, they want to get to somebody quickly. So I actually will speed up a little bit. As long as I'm articulate, I'll speed up. I'll be kinder. And I'll try not to be that annoying sound at the other end of the line that I even get annoyed with. Pilar: Yes. Yes. And the important thing is specificity, which you've just mentioned. It's just to be as specific as possible. Anne: Right, because your message, when you're, that let's say telephony, right -- and this is crazy. We're talking about improv with telephony and medical narration, like the two genres that nobody would think, right, that you would use improv with, but think about telephony for a doctor's office, right? People are typically, they're not feeling well, or they're calling for maybe a member of the family that's not feeling well; they're upset. They could be nervous. They could be scared. And so that puts a different light on how I'm going to voice my message, right? Versus maybe a party store, you know, so understanding that scene and who you're going to be talking to again, is paramount. It is so important to get yourself in that scene and then play that scene before you even start talking. Because again, that helps you hit the notes. It helps you hit the emotion, the point of view that you need to be in once you start voicing that copy. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All true. Anne: Let's talk about a commercial, commercial genre, right? Pilar: Okay. Anne: Because I think a lot of people think that might be more resonant with them. It might come to them simpler if you're thinking about a commercial, because there's, I think there's more realms of scenes that can take place. There's more emotions that can take place. It could be a funny commercial. It could be a serious commercial. It could be all different types of commercials and scenarios that are, and you have to create that scene and improv your way into the voicing. Pilar: And here's the thing. If you listen to actors, when they talk about the roles that they did, when they admit, they say, well, no, actually it was all scripted, and you sit there and you go, oh, hey, how did they do that? It looked completely improv. That's because they had a very, very specific pre-life into going into the scene. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Pilar: Since as voice actors, we don't have to memorize. We've got the copy right in front of us. We can mark our script up. We can imagine a scene beforehand. There's always the moment before, you know, who, what, when, where and why you're talking. Anne: Right. Pilar: And then you bring those colors in. And this is something that I always think about too, when I'm doing commercial copy. And this is Mary Lynn Wisner taught me this, what is the answer I'm giving? There's always a question. So put the question before, and then you give the answer. Anne: Right. Act, react. Pilar: Right, exactly. And all those things being specific and question and putting yourself in the scene, let's say you're a Taco Bell. Don't just read the Taco Bell. Imagine you're sitting at a Taco Bell and you're looking at, at the menu and you're going, oh my gosh, the waffle. I mean, I don't go to Taco Bell anymore because, cause I will order that big, huge mother of a waffle thing. And it's so delicious and it's so caloric. So I'd like I have to stay away from them. So I like, I give that to myself once a month as like a prize. But if you focus on the scene and that -- Anne: Maybe you're eating that in the scene. And so you'll have a different reaction. Pilar: Right. You're chomping on it. And it's like, you know, the, the sour cream and the avocados just spilling down your mouth and everything, you know, and the more colorful details you give yourself, the more that's going to come out in your read. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and you know, what's interesting is commercial spot, I think sometimes when there's dialogue, it makes things easier for the improv when it's a dialogue or first person written. I know that when I do dialogue spots for, let's say, e-learning characters in e-learning -- when it's a written dialogue on the piece of paper, I find that there are so many -- it's harder than most people think, because I'll find that initially people will read the dialogue instead of being in the dialogue. And that's where improv can really help you because set that scene. And what it will do is if you are engaged in that scene -- Let's say you're walking in the hallway with your colleague, Sally, and you want Sally to make sure she gets the accounting numbers to Joe before Friday. You can, as you're walking along, "oh Sally." And then you imagine yourself walking, right? And so the rhythm of your line that you're going to say is going to change as you're thinking about, "oh, we need you to get these numbers to Joe by Friday because he's going to need them for this." So it will really change the rhythm as you're walking along or creating that scene, as you're thinking of things to say to Sally, in order to get your point across, because that's what will happen. All that like subtext, where she's looking at you going, "why do I have to get these to Joe by Friday? Because this is a lot of work, Anne." You know, so that kind of improv where you're imagining that as you were speaking of voicing, the dialogue can really, really help. Pilar: Yup. Yup. Absolutely. Location is so important. Putting yourself into the scene wherever you are, focusing on the here and now of it. Because a lot of the times we think, okay, I have to get through the copy or it's 30 seconds. Forget all that. The most important is what is going on right at this moment? What is the, the person who is not maybe physically there, but you are speaking to someone, are they standing next to you? Are they standing moving away from you? And you're trying to get their attention? "Oh my goodness, let me get your attention," and all that stuff you can put, you know, obviously you can put into your body, but you can put into your intention and that's how you can improv a scene or a, a commercial or, you know, a piece of longer copy. So the here and now, the establishing the location -- Anne: And establishing movement, movement through it. Pilar: Establishing movement. Yes. Anne: Yeah. That's the biggest thing I find people forget is they'll set the scene up, but then they'll forget to move through it. They'll set it up and the first sentence will be very much in the scene. But then after that first sentence, they just go into their own little monologue, and they forget about the scene. They forget about who they're interacting with. And again, that movement through the scene and the sound as if you're moving through the scene is super important. Now there's a lot to be said for leading in to help you get into that. But I think just the verbal lead-in is not enough to get you through an entire piece of copy, because we can't be completely improvising every single line, but we can certainly lead into a line that helps us get to the place where we need to be. And some of those can even be left -- I would say in the commercial genre, you can kind of, oh, you can kind of lead in with maybe a, a sound, I think, maybe a little bit of a word, but in other types of copy, let's say for narration, corporate narration, medical narration, telephony, you can't really keep those lead in words in there, but they can certainly help you as to get you in the place. And then you can, you can take them out. I mean, we all, we all know how to edit our stuff. So if it helps you get there, I say, leave it in and then take it out in post, you know? Pilar: Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. But like extending a sentence. We don't say words the same way. We don't talk the exact same rhythm, every single -- I mean, some people do, but I'm always speeding up and slowing down. So why wouldn't I put that in? I mean, and it depends, obviously, because sometimes, you know, if you're doing a biography, you do need to have a certain pace, but -- and I'm speaking specifically for commercial copy, but improv is also about changing. It's like how the character changes. In a 30-second piece, there's always like, there's a problem. It's described. Anne: There's a solution. Pilar: And then there's the solution at the end. So the person reading the copy is going to go through all these changes, and they're not necessarily going to say them at the same time. Anne: Right. Pilar: So change is a big part obviously of, of that, which you can incorporate into, into the copy. Anne: And change, even in the middle of sentences, right? 'Cause emotion, because right, you've got a problem. Commercial copy, usually you have a problem or an implied problem. And then you have a solution. So as you have this problem, you know, it's I kind of have this problem, but oh, now I've got a solution. You can hear the change, right? You can hear the change within even a sentence. And that's where that improv and subtexts and imagination and being in the scene can really help you to make that a more authentic and believable voicing. Now question, Pilar. What about commercial copy that's written very selly, that doesn't seem to have, you know, those are always the ones that people talk about. They're like, oh God, look at the way they wrote this copy. And now they want me to sound like I'm talking to my best friend. So what are your tips there? Pilar: Well, honestly, I mean, that's not true. I mean, I get pieces of copy and I go, wow, this is really good. But a lot of the times they'll tell you, you want to sound, you know, conversational. That's like the big, the big word, conversation -- Like you're not going to, you're going to sound like a robot, but conversational and not announcer-like, and then they give you this copy. And you're like, you know, what do I do with it? You break it down, you break it down into beats. You run through it. You sing it. Anne: Question, answer. Right? Act, react. Pilar: Yes, question, answer. Right. Anne: For every sentence. Pilar: Yes. But that's not what you're going to put into the final part of the copy. Anne: No, no. Pilar: But it's basically like when you've got a piece of copy that you have to work on, it's like stretching your body. You have to stretch your body. So whatever, like let's say, I'm stretching my arms right now, and I'm stretching them forward. I'm also going to stretch my arms up, and I'm going to stretch my arms to the back. I'm not just going to do it one way. I think voice actors get a little stuck, and they go, oh, okay. I did it this way. This sounds okay. Let me stay there. And then we get stuck. 'Cause that happens to me all the time, and I'll listen back and I'll be like, what are you talking about, Pilar? All three reads were exactly the same. So I have to go back and I have to like, and I think I've used this before on the podcast, but it's kind of like when my dog would turn around three times and then, you know, all of a sudden he would go and do something else. And my cat does the same thing. So I, I do that too, because I realized that if I turned around three times really quickly, I either get dizzy or I start laughing, but I don't go back to where I was before. So I need that change. You know, improv is all about change. So it's like, if you get stuck, all you need to do is shake it off, go outside, touch your toes, scream in the booth, and start again because that's going to give you a little bit of a different scenario so you don't slide into that sameness, that sameness of reading the copy the same way. Anne: Then when your director is asking you for that ABC take, right, improv is going to help you get there. I'm always like -- Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: You know, and I've said this before on a previous episode, everybody thinks about let's do the different sounds. This is take A. This is take B. This is take C. And that just is a, a simple, like change in your pitch. It's not even -- I want you guys, you BOSSes out there to really improv your way into ABC. And that is a skill, that is a muscle that, if you work on it, can really improve your ABC reads or your second take. And that is so important that, that second take, that ABC, they're all different. And I think there could be an entire like course on ABC takes and how you can get to them better because they do have to be different. And there's a lot of times myself even, Pilar, where I'm like, okay, let me give a second read. Right? And I haven't done the work enough. And I listen to that second read. I'm like, oh, that's kind of sounds the same. So really spend the extra moments and figure out what's happening in the scene or a change in the scene that can give you a different, alternate take. And don't just do the start of it. Right? Don't just say, okay, well now I'm on a mountain. Here, I'm in my office. But start and continue throughout the script. As you're reading the script, things change, right? The product solves your problem. And so then there's an evolution, and it may evolve in a different way. So create the scene all the way through the text. I would say, create the scene, be in the scene between the periods of the copy. Pilar: Yeah. I mean, I think it's simple that you could say, let's say for example, off the top of my head, um, I'm going to the store this morning. So I could say it, oh my God, it's 10:00, I'm going to the store this morning. Anne: Exactly. PIlar: Oh my God. I forgot the tomato sauce. I'm going to the store this morning. Or, oh my God, they're coming. They're coming at 7:00 and at six 15, I'm going to the store. I'm going to the store this evening. You know, I mean, and I'm exaggerating, but I just did three to four ideas. Anne: You just got up and you had a plant. I'm going to the store this morning, right? Pilar: Right. Or, or like, I'm going to, I'm going to surprise you. I'm going to the store this morning. Anne: I like that. Pilar: So you've just created different worlds. Anne: You just had four or five different reads, exactly different worlds, different scenes to react to. And that's where, BOSSes, I want you to start practicing, take a sentence, a tagline, and think of three different scenarios for it. Or take every piece of copy that you ever auditioned for and give yourself different scenes. Or maybe just take a line out of it and give yourself different scenes so that you can read it differently. And don't think about what sounds like. Don't think about what it -- think about being in the scene and reacting to the scene and improv-ing that scene. That's what's going to get you that different read. Pilar: Yeah. It's really important too, because I, I didn't even know what improv was, even though I was doing it. I was always a little scared of it. And so like, when I was working in Colombia, I used to improv all the time, not realizing that that's what I was doing, but stuff would come out of my mouth, and I would just do it. And they'd be like, oh my gosh. Yeah, let's keep that. And then I finally finally, because I read books about it and I would take like classes here and there. But finally, when I came out here to LA, I took an improv class at Second City. And then all of a sudden it all came together because all this stuff I'd kind of heard willy nilly randomly and what I'd seen and the way television and movies, people improv-ing, I was like, oh, that's what it is. You know, there, there are rules and there are things that you can do. And so I, you know, I think it's important. I mean, you know, that we are still going through what we're going through, but there are classes online that you can take. Anne: Absolutely. I've got one coming up as a matter of fact. Pilar: Oh, oh really? Oh, okay. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. With Scott Parkin, who is amazing -- Pilar: He's awesome. Anne: He is awesome at improv. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. He's really good. Yeah. And so it's about becoming loose because that's the whole point. When you're in the booth, then that's why you need to take classes. 'Cause it's like exercising that muscle. Anne: Yes, it's a muscle. Pilar: So when you're in the booth by yourself, and you've got a piece of copy, and you're like, what do I do with it? You've got these tools that you can use, the yes, and, the imagining, the being specific, you know, the being goofy. And you never know what's going to come out, but allowing yourself the space to say something and fall down and maybe not have it be right, and that's okay. Anne: Absolutely. I mean, I think that that is all part of it. Right? If it didn't work out, no, that's okay. Right? This is improv. Right? You change the scene. Right? Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. Because one thing that's really important to know is that yes, improv is an art, but it's also a craft. You have to practice it. You have to work on it. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's a daily thing. Like honestly, I think you should take a sentence every day and give yourself three different scenes and three different ways. And I think do that, or do that with your auditions, right? Do that with your auditions daily. Even if you don't have an audition, take an old audition and do that. And I'll tell you what, it will keep you, I think, on your toes. And it will give you a better performance. What a great discussion, Pilar. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: So much fun. Pilar: That was really fun. Anne: So much fun. BOSSes, make sure that you get in the booth and practice, practice, practice, and that will help you perform at your very best. I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, Pilar. Pilar: Thank you. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You know, there's a new song that just came into my head when you said that it could be like, "network like a BOSS, network like BOSS" Anne: Who! Pilar: "Network like a BOSS. Yeah. Yeah." Anne: Alright. BOSSes. Have a great week, and we'll see you next week. Pilar: Bye. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. 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