Sounds Profitable

In preparation for Podcast Movement Evolutions and South by Southwest, Bryan Barletta sits down with Tom Webster to discuss research, presentations, and his new weekly video series Data Decoded.Credits:Written by Bryan BarlettaEdited by Gavin GaddisAssembled with Spooler.fmHosted by ART19Sounds Profitable theme written by Tim CameronSounds Profitable: Narrated Articles is a production of Sounds Profitable. For more information, visit soundsprofitable.com.

Manuela: This is The Download from Sounds Profitable, the most important news from this week and why it matters to people in the business of podcasting. I’m Manuela Bedoya. Shreya: And I’m Shreya Sharma.Manuela: The Download is brought to you by Magellan AI. Track the trends in spend, ad load, podcasts on YouTube, and more with Magellan AI's advertising benchmark report for Q4, available now. You can find a link in the description or visit Magellan dot AI.Shreya: This week: Podcasts are coming to YouTube Music, Digiday breaks down the Google antitrust case, Podnews publishes a deep dive on podcasting in Japan, and how marketers are looking at Q2. Let’s get started.Podcasts are coming to YouTube MusicManuela: Since the release of the YouTube Podcasts webpage last year, there has been little in the way of concrete feature announcements from YouTube, leaving some skeptical of Google’s commitment. After all, podcasting has been burned by companies veering away from podcast support at the 11th hour. Last Thursday, during the Hot Pod Summit at On Air Fest, YouTube Podcast Lead Kai Chuck took to announce YouTube is releasing a beta version of podcasting functionality for YouTube accounts, as well as adding podcasts to YouTube Music in the near future. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/youtube-podcasts-1235332624/: “The message that I would hope folks are taking away is YouTube, at large, independent of YouTube Music, is looking to better support podcasters and [recognizes] that podcasting is generally an audio-first medium.” Once implemented, YouTube Music listeners will likely have a comparable podcast listening experience to current offerings with Spotify and Apple. As reported on the https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/youtube-music-premium-80-million-lyor-cohen/ in August, YouTube Music has a subscriber base of around 80 million users split across YouTube Music and YouTube Premium. Not bad, but it pales in comparison to YouTube’s over two billion users. According to Chuck, there are intentions to bridge  the gap between the platforms. https://newsletters.feedbinusercontent.com/60b/60b0be3184899cafee144c595c4fee42eb420187.html: “I don’t expect podcasts to only live on YouTube Music, that’s the only way that people consume podcasts on YouTube,” Chuk said. “We expect there to be kind of a back and forth between the two.”Shapiro then says Google product lead for podcasting Steve McLendon gave an explanation of how the feature would ultimately work, describing seamlessly continuing a podcast episode that had been started on a desktop computer watching YouTube to an audio feed while driving home from work. While not directly related to podcasting, another promising audio feature was announced for YouTube last week: https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/youtube-multilanguage-audio-tracks-mrbeast-supercharges-videos-1235533196/. Currently in beta and piloted by popular content creators like Jimmy “MrBeast” Donaldson, the feature will allow creators to upload alternate audio tracks to dub new and existing videos in different languages. If properly supported and implemented, this could have interesting implementations for podcasting in future.In the https://soundsprofitable.com/guide-and-article/how-google-can-earn-our-trust/, Bryan Barletta detailed several ways Google could win back trust from skeptical podcasters and show they’re committed to integrating with the industry. One way mentioned was a commitment to RSS ingestion and integration. While a step in the right direction, Chuck’s announcement didn’t completely deliver this. A quote from Chan’s presentation: “Definitely support for RSS is something we are looking at. I would say, probably initially, we will leverage RSS to make it easier for podcasters to bring shows to YouTube. In terms of future plans, things like that, we’re sort of exploring what should our goal be.” So podcasts are coming to YouTube. Kind of. As Chuck said, the current vision for RSS integration is less integration and more an automatic import to bring the file into YouTube’s ecosystem. Promising steps are being made towards YouTube integrating into podcasting, instead of YouTube turning podcasters into YouTubers who occasionally upload audio elsewhere, but we’re not out of the woods yet. WTF is going on with the Google antitrust case? Shreya: Back in late January the Department of Justice filed a lawsuit against Google, alleging the search engine giant had created a monopoly in the ad tech market as well. The 155 page lawsuit argues Google has used a combination of ad tech tools like their ad exchange and publisher ad server to corner the market on programmatic ads. https://digiday.com/marketing/wtf-is-the-justice-departments-ad-tech-antitrust-case-against-google/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=digidaydis&utm_source=daily&utm_content=230227 collecting together the first three installments of a series of videos explaining the DoJ’s lawsuit, as well as the basic fundamentals of ad tech needed to understand  the situation. In general, the crux of the lawsuit centers around Google having a DSP in the form of Display & Video 360, an ad exchange platform in AdX, and a publisher ad server in Google Ad Manager. A tech stack that, if leveraged a certain way, would give preferential treatment to Google’s interests. A quote from the DoJ lawsuit: “By allowing only its own publisher ad server effective access to important, unique Google Ads’ demand, Google could force publishers to adopt and remain on its publisher ad server; other ad servers could not compete to offer a similar product.” The situation is further exacerbated by Google’s sheer size in the adtech industry. According to the lawsuit’s allegations, Google’s market share for ad servers jumped from 60% in 2008 to 90% in 2015. The DoJ cites a 2016 customer presentation in which Google stressed this 90% market share, describing their publisher ad server as the quote-unquote “defacto” choice. Even now, as alleged by the lawsuit, header bidding can’t escape Google’s first-look clauses. From the lawsuit: “Critically, through dynamic allocation, Google’s ad exchange always received this “lastlook” advantage, essentially a right to buy any impression as long as it had at least one advertiser willing to match the competing bid price from the header bidding auction.”  Podcasting as an industry has many paths in front of it right now. If we choose to go down a handful of current options available, we might find ourselves in the same situation Digital found themselves in with Google. Let’s hope podcasting doesn’t get to a point where even header bidding can’t break free of one company’s control. It has been said before on The Download and it will be said again: independent third parties are vital for a healthy industry. Japan: A Podcasting Deep DiveManuela: The first in a series of https://podnews.net/article/podcast-deep-dive-japan was published last week on Podnews. A sequel to January’s https://podnews.net/article/podcast-in-asia-japan, this deep dive examines the driving factors behind an industry-defining podcast (such as Serial), explores Japan’s existing podcast industry, and explores what could be a podcast category driver in Japan to the point of reaching a similar impact to Serial. It’s an uphill battle in Japan, for sure. A snapshot of podcast listener statistics out of the internet population in several countries shows podcasting’s weekly reach is just four percent of the total population in a country with an 83% internet-connected population. For comparison, the same graph’s data for the US shows 26% weekly reach to the population.Some significant barriers to entry do stand in the way of a thriving Japanese podcast industry. Popular commercial radio syndication apps like Radiko undercut the motivation of radio to repackage segments as podcasts, Japan has far stricter content copyright laws than the US, and most how-to guides built for educating new podcast listeners are only available in English. From the article: “But is it all doom and gloom? Not exactly, TBS - Tokyo Broadcasting Station, the first radio broadcaster in Japan is planning to release a large number of new original podcast programs on all the mainstream podcast outlets - which means that they see value outside of Radiko. Covid also encouraged a surge of creators globally, including Japan which means more people are willing to tackle the complicated copyright laws and more people are willing to explain them to creators.” Global podcasting is growing, and as this deep dive shows, some markets remain full of untapped potential with only a few speed bumps in the way of mainstream adoption. Mixed outlook for Q2, marketers hold hope for second halfShreya: This week Digiday’shttps://digiday.com/marketing/marketing-briefing-the-outlook-for-q2-is-mixed-but-marketers-hopes-grow-for-a-better-2nd-half/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=digidaydis&utm_source=daily&utm_content=230228

Writing for Sounds Profitable recently, Bryan Barletta posited the idea that Spotify has a big opportunity to use their streaming ad insertion technology to grow the industry. In this episode, Arielle Nissenblatt speaks with Bryan and Tom Webster about this opportunity, what it means for the larger industry, and how this all fits into the current zeitgeist around the future of audio (i.e. there have been some doom-and-gloom-focused articles popping up). Listen to learn about: The origins of streaming ad insertionHow streaming ad insertion differs from dynamic ad insertionHow streaming ad insertion and dynamic ad insertion can work together Why publishers benefit from streaming ad insertionHow this discussion affects Apple, Amazon, and more companiesSounds Profitable’s presence at Podcast Movement and SXSWLinks:Bryan BarlettaArielle NissenblattTom WebsterThe article we’re discussingPodcast MovementSounds Profitable at SXSWCredits:Hosted by Bryan Barletta, Arielle Nissenblatt, Tom WebsterProduced by Spooler MediaHosted on Art19Recorded on SquadCast.fm Edited by Reece Carman and Ron Tendick

Every podcaster thinks they know what their audience likes. This week Tom Webster shares strategies to actually get that audience talking and directly telling you what they like. Credits:Written by Tom WebsterEdited by Bryan BarlettaAssembled with Spooler.fmHosted by ART19Sounds Profitable theme written by Tim CameronSounds Profitable: Narrated Articles is a production of Sounds Profitable. For more information, visit soundsprofitable.com.

Manuela: This is The Download from Sounds Profitable, the most important news from this week and why it matters to people in the business of podcasting. I’m Manuela Bedoya. Shreya: And I’m Shreya Sharma.This week: The App Tracking Transparency Recession, Streamers struggle with frequency capping, Bumper calculates listen time, and IPG Equity Upfront Spotlights Lack of Diverse Adspend.Manuela: The Download is brought to you by Magellan AI. Track the trends in spend, ad load, podcasts on YouTube, and more with Magellan AI's advertising benchmark report for Q4, available now. Link in the description or at Magellan dot AIShreya: Let’s get started. The App Tracking Transparency recession Manuela: While not hot off the presses, an early January article from Eric Benjamin Seufert discussing the effects of Apple’s App Tracking Transparency has come across The Download’s desk. As with most things in advertising, there’s nuance in the numbers.Quick refresher for those who haven’t seen the letters ATT dozens of times: App Tracking Transparency was a privacy policy introduced to iOS in 2021 that turns most forms of mobile data tracking into an opt-in service. As a result, a significant portion of iOS users have digitally disappeared for advertisers. An upset to the status quo, for sure, but the overall numbers provided by Seufert show the digital advertising market is not in a cyclical downturn. That said, social media platforms and other industries most likely to be affected by ATT have experienced a significant downturn due to a combination of both ATT-influenced changes and changing consumer preferences.Which is to say, not macroeconomic factors. A market-wide downturn, as well as more stress on those companies most affected by ATT, would primarily come from an actual 2023 recession. Overall, digital advertising has been working as intended. Consumers are consuming. Seufert points to a Bureau of Labor Statistics graph tracking US employment in December of 2022. According to these, unemployment is the lowest it has been since August 1969. From Seufert’s piece:“But one might assume that the economy has utterly imploded from reading the Q3 earnings call transcripts of various social media platforms. Alphabet, Meta, and Snap, in particular, cited macroeconomic weakness, headwinds, uncertainty, challenges, etc. in their Q3 earnings calls.”In the weeks since Seufert’s article, the overall numbers are trending to agree. The Download has recently mentioned podcast ad spend has remained up while others decline, but the same holds true for other areas. Last week a piece by Ethan Cramer-Flood for Insider Intelligence reports mobile app install ad spending increased 24.8% in 2022, on track to a market growth of 12% this year. Meanwhile, still on Insider Intelligence, Daniel Konstantinovic reports that while market concerns aren’t gone, ad-cost inflation has slowed. 84% of ad executives told Insider Intelligence they're not lowering budgets for 2023. From Konstantinovic:“But now, the industry is adjusting to a new normal. With inflation steadily falling and the cost per ad decreasing, some of the advertising spending that was staunched in the second half of last year may return.”The future may be uncertain, but for the wider advertising economy, podcasting included, things tend to be stable or trending upward. And, it bears repeating, podcasting has never benefited from mobile device IDs. From this industry’s perspective, at least, ATT has had little to no impact. It feels fitting to end with this quote from Seufert’s article:“While one might materialize, the belief that an advertising recession is currently and comprehensively depressing advertising spend is difficult to support with analytical rigor.”Streaming advertisers continue to struggle with frequency caps.  Shreya: If you’ve used a video streaming service with advertisements, you’re likely intimately aware of the industry’s issue with frequency caps. Last week’s Future of TV Briefing from Digiday’s Tim Peterson zooms in on this particular issue with the section Capping Out. Streaming advertisers are in a bind. Some viewers are getting underexposed to ads, while others are overexposed. Problems that will only exacerbate as digital video streaming continues on its overtake of traditional television. According to a recent eMarketer graph, US adults only averaged five minutes less digital video time than television last year, and are projected to overtake TV’s declining numbers for the first time this year. Of course, addressing the frequency issues isn’t as easy as it sounds. A myriad of reasons exist, from lack of ability to track exposures across multiple streaming platforms, to multiple DSPs buying from the same pool. Even when the solution exists, sometimes it comes at a price. Peterson reports some streamers are charging more in exchange for placing stricter frequency caps. An anonymous ad agency executive told Digiday:“Some will endeavor to charge more for more restrictive frequency caps, which could be prohibitive or incentivize lower spend from partners. But more and more, they’re willing to waive those fees. And hopefully that will be the case going forward as I think these lower frequency caps are the expectation, not the exception anymore.”This particular piece made the cut this week for two reasons.It’s a good overview of the situation as it currently stands for streamers. It serves as a reminder that issues we experience in the business of podcasting are not always unique to podcasting, nor is the onus on our industry to magically fix the problem ourselves. Something to keep in mind before the next headline about ‘podcasting’s frequency capping problem’ rolls around.  Bumper Calculates Listen TimeManuela: Back in January, Bumper’s Jonas Woost posted a proposal for the podcasting industry to move past the download and evolve similarly to how YouTube has evolved past the view. While not abandoned by any means, video view counts have taken a back seat to watch time metrics in recent years. Bumper’s future aims for podcasters to have their own metric with listen time. This week Dan Misener has followed up Jonas’ post by calculating listen time on an episode of his podcast Grownups Read Things They Wrote as Kids. From the article:: “Inconveniently, many podcast apps simply do not report Listen Time, or equivalent metrics. At Bumper, we try not to let perfect be the enemy of good. So to calculate Listen Time for podcast episodes, we do the best we can with what we have, then use reasonable estimates for the rest.” While not a herculean effort, Misener’s step-by-step guide on how to pull your own numbers from Apple and Spotify require some arithmetic and a teeny bit of opening your browser’s code to find a specific JSON file. For anyone finding themselves interested for business reasons, or perhaps for a geeky weekend math project, the article also provides a Google Sheets template to start from.In addition to the guide for Apple and Spotify, Misener tosses in a few extra-credit opportunities into the assignment with suggestions for also implementing YouTube watch time, Google Podcasts ‘minutes played’, and ‘hours listened’ data from applicable embedded web players.As Misener says in his closing bullet points, the download isn’t going anywhere. Bumper’s goal is to aim for a future where downloads are not the only metric considered. Now to see if various platforms and apps share a similar outlook and make steps to provide Listen Time. We’ll keep our ears open.     IPG Equity Upfront Spotlights Lack of Diverse AdspendShreya: This month the IPG Mediabrands Equity Upfront event in New York brought together around thirty publishers to focus on media with owners of diverse backgrounds. Ryan Barwick of Marketing Brew was in attendance to cover the event. From his article:“Nearly two years after many in the advertising industry revealed plans to invest more money in Black-owned media, those publishers said they are still educating media buyers and advertisers about what the

On this episode of the Sounds Profitable Podcast, Bryan Barletta sits down with Audiohook's Jordan Bentley to discuss pre-bid. What is it, what does it mean in the world of display advertising, and how can it be brought to podcasting? Listen to learn about: Pre-bid/header bid for Display.Pre-bid is coming for audio.What 'headers' will look like for audio. Links:Bryan BarlettaArielle NissenblattJordan BentleyAudiohook

There has been a cooling of Google and YouTube's enthusiasm for podcasting as of late. Bryan Barletta details what they can do to to heat things back up.Frequency Webinar Signup Link.Credits:Written by Bryan BarlettaEdited by Tom WebsterAssembled with Spooler.fmHosted by Omny StudioSounds Profitable theme written by Tim CameronSounds Profitable: Narrated Articles is a production of Sounds Profitable. For more information, visit soundsprofitable.com.

Manuela: This is The Download from Sounds Profitable, the most important news from this week and why it matters to people in the business of podcasting. I’m Manuela Bedoya. Shreya: And I’m Shreya Sharma.This week: The ‘slippery slope’ of podcast endorsements, Netflix’s ad-supported tier has teething troubles, why ad buyers are hesitant to embrace DSPs, and a look at modern contextual advertising. Let’s get started.Navigating the ‘slippery slope’ of personal endorsements in podcast adsManuela: Over the past few years there have been multiple headlines spotlighting instances of social media influencers butting up against the Federal Trade Commission. This period of adjustment as new media incorporates modern advertising rules has matured to the point the FTC has a official page just for coaching influencers on advertisement disclosure. As MarketingBrew’s Alyssa Meyers pointed out this week: the FTC hasn’t similarly cracked down on podcast advertisements just yet, but it has come close. Listeners of The Download might remember a case in November when Google and iHeartRadio settled with the FTC out of court. The case concerned allegations that several iHeart on-air radio personalities were given ad copy with personal endorsements for a Pixel phone the hosts had not used. From Meyers’ article: “Though the FTC’s guidelines for endorsements and testimonials in advertising don’t mention podcasts, the agency proposed a change last May that would, if approved, add an example concerning a podcast host related to disclosing material connections.”Podcasting is no stranger to ad copy that flirts the line between advertisement and personal endorsement. Meyers opens her article asking if the reader has ever questioned if podcasters really made the meal kits they endorse, or if their mattress sponsor actually fixed their back problems. Hyperbolic, perhaps, but endorsements are a big factor in the appeal of host-read ads. David Plotz, CEO of City Cast told MarketingBrew he has experienced advertisers requiring ads to contain personal endorsements or, more worryingly from an FTC perspective, attempt to slip a personal endorsement into the ad copy.  Meyers spotlights two approaches that eliminate any FTC concerns: Lauren Lograsso and NPR. Lograsso prefers ad deals with required endorsements and the authenticity of having tried the product herself. Conversely, NPR has a blanket policy of zero personal endorsements, a byproduct of the company carrying over its radio journalism ethos into podcasting. The article then closes out with advice from Veritone One VP of podcasting Hilary Ross Shafer and Adopter Media CEO Glenn Rubenstein: onboarding calls between podcasters and advertisers are useful, if not vital, tools to establish goals and prevent miscommunication. While host-read remains the preferred method of podcast advertising, it’s worth remembering Sounds Profitable’s first study, After These Messages, found the gap between host-read and announcer-read was smaller than conventional wisdom might suggest. 81% of respondents trusted host-read ads, followed by 71% trusting announcer-read.While it’s certainly possible podcasting will get a headline or two on par with, say, Instagram influencers selling teas that claimed to cure cancer, the data shows there’s no need for such extremes. Podcast listeners, especially in comparison to other forms of media, are quite accepting, if not supportive of advertising. Netflix Ad-Supported Tier Experiences Teething TroublesShreya: Time for an update on a continuing story involving Netflix. Back in early November we covered the details of Netflix’s new Basic tier with advertisements, as well as the big brands buying space at a reported CPM between $60 and $80. Now Basic with Ads has been out a few months and experienced its first teething troubles. Danielle Long, writing for The Drum, reports the streamer has had to issue refunds to Australian advertisers after failing to meet projected audience numbers. From the article: “Media reports suggest Netflix’s Basic with Ads subscription tier, which launched in November, has underperformed by as much as 70% in the first three months of operation.”While Australia’s ad refunds are the most eye-opening headline, Basic with Ads is reportedly slower to start than expected on a global scale. From a US perspective, last week an Insider Intelligence piece from Sara Lebow digs into the question of why, in the face of a recession, consumers aren’t downgrading their Netflix memberships to Basic with Ads. In fact, as economic worries mount, CivicScience numbers show there has been a three percent decline in US citizens who only have one subscription video-on-demand service since January of 2022. From Insider Intelligence analyst Daniel Konstantinovic: “Not only have people shown they are willing to pay for entertainment through difficult economic times, but they’re actually adding more.”One bright spot for Basic with Ads is the recent rollout of Netflix’s password-sharing restrictions in certain markets, with plans to implement them in more places over time. While controversial on social media, kicking people off shared accounts will likely drive Basic with Ads subscriptions as people begin to sign up and see the ad-free experience they’ve grown accustomed to comes with the sticker shock of $16 a month.Audiences can be ad-averse and comfortable with paying to get away from ads. Even in podcasting, where we have seen audiences be particularly accepting of ads, there’s a booming market of premium subscriptions that frequently offer ad-free feeds. The question remains if consumers will value ad-free Netflix at the price point of three premium subscriptions on Apple Podcasts. Why podcast ad buyers are hesitant to spend through demand-side platforms Manuela: It’s no secret that programmatic has yet to be wholly adopted by podcast advertisers. This Valentine’s Day, Sara Guaglione of Digiday has published a piece specifically to investigate why the hesitancy still exists. From the article: “There are a variety of reasons for this: host-read ads are still king in the medium, not all podcast networks or shows have inventory available to buy programmatically, and buyers often feel the need to vet the content to ensure contextual alignment when targeting specific audience segments or category verticals across a number of podcast networks.”This commitment to host-read and lack of programmatic accessibility also leads to a shortage of inventory available to plug into an SSP. Podcasting is also light on SSPs, with few exceptions past AdsWizz and Triton Digital. As Marketecture founder Ari Paparo told Digiday for another piece, it’s not likely we’ll see a lot of new SSPs pop up anytime soon. Paparo’s quote from that article: “I think that, fundamentally, the SSP business is not very attractive … It’s not growing, and it’s very competitive as publishers really treat you like a commodity, they have like 10 or 20 of them implemented on every page.”It’s not all grim news, though.Guaglione reports some buyers Digiday spoke to are either in the testing phase or outright investing in programmatic podcast ads for the first time this year. She also cites a prediction from Insider Intelligence that programmatic’s 2% of total podcast ad spend in 2021 will grow to just under 10% by 2024. That said, there are still some outliers who take issue with programmatic as a concept. From the article: “One buyer — who did not feel comfortable speaking on the record to summarize agencies’ hesitancy to buy podcast ads programmatically — said there is a “sect of the podcast ecosystem that is anti-programmatic that does not exist in other mediums,” which they believe is due to being “burned” by issues with programmatic display ad buying.”It’s perfectly fine if buyers prefer host read. It’s a proven and sound strategy, but it’s also not a good look to trash alternatives that appeal to a larger buy-side. As has been said many times on this podcast: programmatic advertising is a tool, not a magic button. When used correctly, it can do amazing things. When implemented suboptimally, it can deliver suboptimal results. Shreya: Finally, it’s time for our semi-regular roundup of articles we’re calling Quick Hits. These are articles that didn’t quite make the cut for today’s episode, but are still worth including in your weekend reading.Before we get into the articles, we want to take a quick second to poin

On Air Fest is a yearly event that celebrates sound by way of the podcast and audio industries. It’s in its 7th year, and this year, there’s an added bonus to the three-day-long event: the Podcast Experience. Bryan Barletta speaks with On Air Fest founders Jemma Brown and Scott Newman about the festival, this year’s inaugural “experience,” their hopes for the future of events in the audio space, and more.Listen to learn about: How On Air Fest has evolvedHow the podcast and audio space can grow by way of in-person and fan-focused eventsWhy Bryan thinks we have to look outside of traditional audio spaces to grow the industryHow to get ticketsSounds Profitable’s plans for SXSWLinks:Bryan BarlettaArielle NissenblattJemma BrownScott NewmanOn Air FestThe Podcast ExperienceEventsCredits:Hosted by Bryan Barletta and Arielle NissenblattProduced by Spooler MediaHosted on Art19Recorded on SquadCast.fm Edited by Reeece Carman and Ron Tendick

This week, on a very special Law and Order-flavored article, Tom Webster recounts his experience serving on a jury and what the defense’s tactics taught him about podcasting. Don’t look at the chicken.Credits:Written by Tom WebsterEdited by Bryan BarlettaAssembled with Spooler.fmHosted by Art19Sounds Profitable theme written by Tim CameronSounds Profitable: Narrated Articles is a production of Sounds Profitable. For more information, visit soundsprofitable.com.