The Unspeakeasy With Meghan Daum

Gen Xers and young Baby Boomers can be nostalgic about the freedoms of growing up in the 1970s. But there was a darker side to that era, too, especially for girls. Feminism was on the ascent, but the sexual revolution was moving even faster, bringing profound changes to behavioral norms and assumptions about pleasure and consent. In her new memoir, The Big Hurt, Erika Schickel recalls a childhood that was both magical and ruinous, one in which she played freely on the streets of her Manhattan neighborhood but, at the same time, attended a private school where (with the blessing of the headmaster) Hollywood casting agents scouted for girls to audition for the role of a child prostitute in the film Pretty Baby (incidentally, Jeffrey Epstein was teaching math at this school at the time). As a teen at boarding school, Erika was seduced by a male teacher and asked by the administration to leave before graduation. Her mother, meanwhile, applauded the relationship and Erika even briefly lived with the teacher before heading off to college. Decades later, while living the life of a conventional married mom in Los Angeles, Erika found herself embroiled in an obsessive affair with the legendary crime writer James Ellroy, a man who was himself damaged by the violence and tragedy of his youth. Erika spoke to Meghan about the book and the revelations that came to her over the more than ten years it took her to write it. During those years, the #MeToo movement came along, further complicating Erika’s story while making it all the more relevant. Guest Bio: Erika Schickel is the author the memoir The Big Hurt (Hachette Books, 2021) and You’re Not the Boss of Me: Adventures of a Modern Mom (Kensington Books, 2007). She has taught memoir and essay writing at UCLA and privately. Her work has appeared in The Los Angeles Times, LA Weekly, LA City Beat, Salon, Ravishly, Tin House, Bust Magazine, and The LA Review of Books, among others.

Husband and wife evolutionary biologists Heather Heying and Bret Weinstein are the authors of the new book A Hunter Gatherer’s Guide To the 21st Century: Evolution and the Challenges of Modern Life. Former professors at Washington’s Evergreen State College, their involvement in a 2017 controversy that became a touchstone “campus culture war” event led them to become major figures in the so-called “heterodox” intellectual space. They now cohost livestreams of Bret’s popular Dark Horse Podcast, where they talk about social, political, scientific (and sometimes medical) issues through an evolutionary lens. In this conversation, Bret and Heather talk with Meghan about their new book, which is premised on the idea that society has become “hypernovel,” meaning that the rate of change is so rapid that “our brains, bodies, and social systems are perpetually out sync.” They define what they mean by the “WEIRD" world (Western, Educated, Industrialized, (relatively) Rich, and Democrat) and explain why human mating and reproductive strategies— and the community structures that are designed to support them — evolved the way they did. They also untangle mysteries such as why appendicitis is almost unknown in the non-industrialized world, why hunter-gatherer civilizations didn’t need orthodonture, and why monogamy is still the best bet for the survival of the human species, despite some rumors to the contrary. Finally, they discuss recent controversial statements they’ve made about the COVID-19 vaccine and the drug Ivermectin. Guest Bios: Heather Heying and Bret Weinstein are evolutionary biologists who have been invited to address the US Congress, the Department of Justice and the Department of Education, and have spoken before audiences across the globe. They both earned PhDs in Biology from the University of Michigan, were professors at the Evergreen State College for fifteen years, and have more recently been visiting professors at Princeton University. They cohost the weekly livestreams of Bret’s podcast the DarkHorse podcast. Heather is the author of the 2002 book Antipode: Seasons With the Extraordinary Wildlife and Culture of Madagascar and writes the Substack newsletter, Natural Selections.

Naama Kates, host of the podcast Incel, debunks the media narrative that incels are a hate group or terrorists. She explores the forces shaping them, such as mental health struggles and changing social norms. The podcast challenges assumptions about male ideologues and discusses the prevalence of autism among incels. They also explore the media's portrayal of incels and the demographics of the incel community. The podcast also delves into the potential similarities between incels and jihadis and explores the phenomenon of unrequited love and romanticized loneliness. They even touch on the potential benefits and societal implications of AI relationships and sex dolls.

Meghan met actor/author/comedian Chelsea Handler several years ago when they attempted to develop Meghan’s 2014 book, The Unspeakable (no direct connection to this podcast) into a television series. In fine Hollywood tradition, the project failed to launch, but the two remained friendly and Chelsea agreed to come on Meghan’s podcast to talk about her own podcast, Dear Chelsea, which offers advice to lovelorn or otherwise tormented or confused listeners. Chelsea talked about the advice she’s both given and received (and often ignored) over the years, her foray into psychotherapy, her interrogation of her own privilege, and the effect of Trumpism on her political consciousness and mental health. Along the way, she argued a bit with Meghan about progressive activism and challenged Meghan’s assertion that seeing everything through the lens of race is itself a form of racism. Chelsea also discussed her views on parthogenesis, a form of natural asexual reproduction that’s seen in certain reptiles and that might have surprising benefits in humans. Guest Bio: Chelsea Handler is a comedian, television host, and bestselling author. For seven years, she was the host of E!’s top-rated late night show Chelsea Lately and the only female late night talk show host on the air. She then launched a documentary series, Chelsea Does, followed by her talk show Chelsea on Netflix in 2016. Five of her six bestselling books have reached number one on the New York Times Bestseller list, including 2019’s Life Will Be The Death of Me. Most recently, she released her first stand-up special in over six years, the critically acclaimed Chelsea Handler: Evolution on HBO Max, and launched her iHeart Radio advice-based podcast, Dear Chelsea. She is currently on tour with a new standup show, Vaccinated and Horny.

Sam Harris is a giant in the world of podcasting. His podcast, Making Sense, which began in 2013 under the name Waking Up, averages more than a million downloads per episode. He is also a philosopher and neuroscientist, a meditation expert, the author of several bestselling books, and a prominent voice in both the “new atheist movement” and in “heterodox” intellectual circles, which has led him to have public debates and disagreements with other high profile thinkers. Meghan and Sam cover lots of ground in this long conversation, including the perils of confusing messaging around vaccines, the cowardice of institutional leadership in the face of social media mobs, and why the debate format can be, as Sam puts it, “a commercial for the limitations of conversation.” Most of all, they talk about what Meghan calls the question of “how not to ruin the dinner party,” which can happen when people who think too much about all of this stuff (like they do) engage in intellectual nitpicking and ruin everyone’s fun. Guest Bio Sam Harris is a neuroscientist, philosopher, and author of five New York Times best sellers, include The End of Faith, The Moral Landscape, Free Will, Lying, and Waking Up. Sam hosts the popular Making Sense podcast and is also the creator of the Waking Up app, which offers a modern, rational approach to the practice of meditation and an ongoing exploration of what it means to live a good life. Sam has practiced meditation for over 30 years and has studied with many Tibetan, Indian, Burmese, and Western meditation teachers, both in the United States and abroad. He holds a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA.

Frank Bruni spent more than 25 years at The New York Times, the last ten of them as a columnist on the opinion page. In June, he left the column to become a professor of public policy and journalism at Duke University. Frank spoke with Meghan about the difficulties — maybe the impossibility— of writing a weekly opinion column while also maintaining intellectual humility and engaging with your own uncertainty. The author of many books, including a book about higher education, Frank explained how “campus craziness” tropes have been distorted by the media even though students continue to disagree about free speech and administrators continue to pander to a small minority of loud extremists. He also talked about an ongoing medical issue that threatens his eyesight and about which he writes in a forthcoming book. Guest Bio: Frank Bruni was a New York Times opinion columnist from 2011 to 2021. He has also served as a White House correspondent, Rome bureau chief and chief restaurant critic for the Times. He is the author of three New York Times bestsellers and his newest book, The Beauty of Dusk, about affliction, aging and his brush with blindness, will be published early next year. He ended his op-ed column in June 2021 and moved from New York to North Carolina to become a professor of public policy and journalism at Duke University, but continues to write a popular weekly newsletter (www.nytimes.com/BruniLetter) for the Times.

This week, Meghan talks with legendary sex and relationship columnist Dan Savage. Recounting thirty years of correspondence from people seeking advice, Dan reflects on how anxieties and concerns have changed over the decades. Whereas he once got mostly practical questions about sex, he now hears from people who describe a relationship dynamic and ask some version of “am I the asshole?” Dan also talks about how he’s become gentler over the years in doling out advice, the legacy of his famous “It Gets Better” campaign, and his discomfort with Meghan’s “favorite” issue, the surge in transgender identity declarations among young people. (That’s not really her favorite issue.) Meghan also announced some new developments with the podcast, including the first ever Unspeakable Zoom hangout for listeners on August 19. To learn more and to register, click HERE [link] Guest Bio: Dan Savage is an author, media pundit, journalist, and LGBT activist. He writes Savage Love, an internationally syndicated relationship and sex advice column, and hosts the popular Savage Lovecast. He is the author of several books including The Kid, It Gets Better, The Commitment, Skipping Toward Gomorrah, American Savage, and Savage Love. In 2010, Savage and his husband, Terry Miller, began the It Gets Better Project to help prevent suicide among LGBT youth.

In this very special, guest-free episode of The Unspeakable Podcast, Meghan talks to her listeners about the now ubiquitous concept of the “mid-career pivot.” Drawing from her experience as a longtime freelance writer who has had to shift her entire work philosophy to accommodate a changing media landscape, Meghan shares several ideas and at least one pet theory. That theory has to do with the ways that Generation X is in an especially precarious position when it comes to this pivot, mostly because they’re too young to retire but too old to be digital natives. She also talks about launching the podcast exactly a year ago, the challenges of promoting it, and the show’s recent move to the Podcast One network.

Science writer Tom Chivers is the author of How To Read Numbers: A Guide To Statistics In The News (And Knowing When to Trust Them) which he co-wrote with his cousin, the economist David Chivers. He came to Meghan’s attention recently because of an article he wrote for the British publication, UnHerd, where he serves as science editor. That article, entitled Twitter Trolls Mentally Ill?, was a response to a widely circulated statement by the author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, who wrote about defamation she’d experienced from a former student and about how the language of empathy and self-care is now often repurposed as a cudgel. Tom's piece expanded on some of these ideas, suggesting that mental health struggles and personality disorders have become engines of social media and that the kind of behavior that’s rewarded on places like Twitter is sometimes the same behavior that’s associated with diagnoses like Borderline Personality Disorder. Tom spoke with Meghan about this article and about related ideas in his book, including the ways misperceptions of harm can turn people into catastrophists. Relevant links: Are Twitter Trolls Mentally Ill? https://unherd.com/2021/06/are-twitter-trolls-mentally-ill/ It Is Obscene by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie https://www.chimamanda.com/news_items/it-is-obscene-a-true-reflection-in-three-parts/ Guest Bio: Tom Chivers is science editor at UnHerd and the co-author with David Chivers of How To Read Numbers: A Guide To Statistics In The News (And Knowing When to Trust Them). He is a two Tim winner of the Royal Statistical Society’s “statistical excellence in journalism” award.

Approximately 554,000 Americans experienced homelessness last year, and over half of were in California. In Los Angeles County alone, 66,000 people were unhoused in 2020, a 16 percent increase from the previous year. Shawn Pleasants is an advocate for the homeless in Los Angeles who often speaks about policy issues and ideas for addressing the crisis. He was also homeless himself for ten years, living for most of that time in an encampment in Koreatown, where he and his longtime husband dealt with medical problems, addiction issues, street violence and tried several times to find jobs and housing. Shawn also happens to be a Yale graduate who once worked on Wall Street and later owned his own business. The stories of how he entered and finally escaped homelessness are remarkable. But even more remarkable is his perspective on the bigger crisis. Shawn spoke with Meghan about not just the day to day life of someone living on the street but also what city and state officials are getting wrong about when they talk about how to fix the problem. Guest Bio: Shawn Pleasants is an advocate for unhoused people in Los Angeles. A former banker and business owner, he lived on the street for ten years. He has been housed since late 2019.