The Gaming Playbook w/ Harry Phokou

Today's guest is Joe Hills, an expert game marketer, ex-Blizzard, Supercell, Meta, Riot, and now Head of Gaming & Partnerships at Once Upon a Time. Also newly joined the Advisory Board for Great Ormond Street Hospital.We break down why studios obsess over launch day, how long you should actually market a game, why gut instinct vs data is misunderstood, and what indie devs consistently get wrong. Joe explains how to find your audience, build long-term hype, create content players genuinely care about, and avoid the traps that kill campaigns before launch.If you’re an indie or AA studio trying to stand out in a brutal market, this episode is for you.Connect with Joe:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-hills/Website: https://www.onceuponatime.agency/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights:→ Subscribe to The Gaming Playbook Weekly at thegamingplaybook.comChapters:00:00 Intro02:40 Why Studios Obsess Over Launch Day03:35 What Studios Misunderstand About Marketing05:00 What Every Indie Developer Should Know07:14 Launch Timing, GTA6, and Market Windows09:16 Joe's Gaming Preferences12:46 Social Games, Roguelikes & Replayability15:42 What Joe’s Agency Actually Does17:35 How Devs Should Think About Clippable Moments19:20 Tools That Help Identify Your Audience22:59 How to Brief an Agency Properly25:44 How to Choose (and Evaluate) a Marketing Agency29:49 When Marketing Fails: Is It You or the Agency?33:12 Leadership, Hiring, and Hard Lessons36:33 Surviving Layoffs & Career Advice41:12 The Biggest Mistake Studios Make in Marketing43:52 Mojang, Dev Diaries & The Power of Human Stories46:41 How to Reach Joe & Closing Thoughts

Today's guest is Jenny Xu, a long-distance runner, Forbes 30 Under 30, and CEO of Talofa Games.Jenny breaks down her wild journey from making 100+ games as a kid to raising $6M and building Monster Walk, a genre-bending fitness RPG. We dig into founder focus, beating overwhelm, fundraising reality, personal identity, creative intuition, and the life moments that shaped her. If you’re building games, raising money, or trying to stay disciplined as a founder, this episode is for you.Connect with Jenny:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xujennyc/Monster walk: https://linktr.ee/talofaConnect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights:→ Subscribe to The Gaming Playbook Weekly at thegamingplaybook.comChapters:00:00 Intro03:14 How Jenny started making games at 12 (anime, Pokémon, Flash)05:25 Paying for college with mobile games07:24 Edgy genres, horror dating sims, and internet anonymity10:29 How to make streamers pick up your game (real strategy)13:41 Building Talofa: combining fitness + games15:15 Monster Walk deep dive: world, mechanics, steps16:48 Behaviour change through game design18:22 Mission-driven recruiting & team motivation19:27 Fundraising reality: insecurity, desperation, and losing confidence21:53 The turning point: pitching from personal truth24:56 Why she taught fitness every single day for 3 years27:16 Jenny's 'almost quit' story & getting into the Niantic contest32:10 “Applying to everything” & creating your own luck36:34 Founder focus: events, burnout, and intentional calendars42:56 Calendar engineering, morning vs. evening energy45:42 Remote work strategies, treadmill calls, and keeping energy up47:45 What she’d do differently when building the first product51:18 Filtering feedback without losing creative vision53:34 The emotional story: surprising her parents with a wedding59:44 Life timing, gratitude, and closing reflections

Today's guest is Simon Sundén, a veteran of the competitive gaming scene, CEO of Clutch Group, and the operator behind major esports productions like the GeoGuessr World Cup.We dig into the rise of esports from its origins in South Korea, how livestreaming changed the industry forever, and why most studios misunderstand what esports is actually for. Simon breaks down what makes a game truly competitive, how to evaluate esports potential, and why watchability matters more than most devs realise.Whether you're a game developer, studio founder, or just obsessed with competitive gaming, this is a masterclass in understanding how esports really works.Connect with Simon:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonsunden/Company's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/clutchgame/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights:→ Subscribe to The Gaming Playbook Weekly at thegamingplaybook.comChapters:00:00 Intro03:03 The origins of esports and the Korean boom07:43 How streaming transformed competitive gaming13:14 How esports boosts game retention and monetization19:06 How GeoGuessr unexpectedly became a successful esports24:27 How to know if your game is ready for esports32:51 Why watchability is crucial for streaming and competition36:30 Could “Peak” become an esports? Simon’s analysis41:30 What it actually takes to run an esports competition45:08 Cutting noise, delegating smartly, and staying focused51:18 Meetings, productivity, and the value of IRL networking55:14 Essential advice for new studios today57:16 Community building done right for modern games

Today's guest is Henri Lindgren, a veteran games industry leader, CEO of Kokoon Games, and former head of Lightneer.We unpack the real side of building and leading game studios, from scaling startups to shutting down companies, rebuilding from scratch, and mastering resilience as a founder. Henri shares insights about leadership, culture, and mental endurance in the turbulent games industry, along with practical strategies for bootstrapping, raising angel investment, and avoiding the VC trap. Whether you’re a game dev, entrepreneur, or creative leader, this is a masterclass in staying resilient when the grind gets real.Connect with Henri:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henri-lindgren-9a388b39/Company's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kokoongames/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights:→ Subscribe to The Gaming Playbook Weekly at thegamingplaybook.comChapters:00:00 Intro02:30 Henri’s 16-year journey in gaming and founding Kokoon Games03:44 Why resilience is the most underrated founder skill07:22 The rise and fall of Lightneer: lessons in leadership and culture11:37 Bootstrapping vs VC: how to survive tough markets14:47 Building company culture and values from scratch19:10 Tactical resilience: how to simplify and refocus under pressure22:41 Time blocking, focus, and managing chaos as a founder26:34 Surviving event season and keeping mental reserves31:22 The myth of the solo founder hero33:47 Hiring smart and avoiding premature scaling36:17 CEO loneliness and coping with leadership isolation41:19 Raising angel investment vs VC in 2025’s market45:47 Cap tables, advisory shares, and avoiding equity mistakes49:20 The state of Finland’s games industry and what’s next55:44 Inside Kokoon’s new party game and design inspiration01:02:06 What Henri’s playing right now & closing thoughts

In this episode, I sit down with Matt Hitchcock, co-founder of Other Things Agency, to break down what it really takes to market, launch, and revive games in 2025. From creating game trailers that actually sell, to fixing poor launches and standing out on Steam, this is the conversation every indie developer and studio marketer needs to hear.Matt shares insights from working on campaigns for Elder Scrolls Online, Squirrel With a Gun, and Cloudheim, revealing how studios can build hype, craft effective trailers, and make their store pages convert. We also dive into hiring in the games industry, what great portfolios look like, and the mistakes job seekers keep making.If you’re building, marketing, or relaunching a game, this episode will save you time, money, and frustration.Connect with Matt:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthitch/E-mail: matt@otherthingsagency.comWebsite: https://otherthingsagency.com/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro03:01 Elder Scrolls Online live-action trailer breakdown05:13 Why trailers matter for conversion on Steam08:25 When to start marketing your game10:30 Working with creators the right way12:10 Squirrel With a Gun – how to go viral with intent17:12 The truth about viral formulas in game marketing19:10 In-engine cinematic capture and authenticity26:58 Why most indies underinvest in marketing33:51 What to do if your game isn’t selling37:12 Key art 101: how visuals sell your game43:02 When and why to refresh your store art45:11 Reviving and re-marketing older games47:15 Continuous marketing done right50:42 Hiring insights: what makes portfolios stand out59:05 Common job applicant mistakes1:02:00 Final advice for devs and creatives#GameMarketing #IndieDev #GameTrailers #SteamLaunch #GamingIndustry

What does it actually take to build a career in games? In this episode, I sit down with Amir Satvat, Director of Business Development at Tencent and the creator of one of the biggest gaming career communities online. Amir’s helped almost 4,000 people land roles in games, all while juggling a full-time job.We talk about the real odds of getting into the industry, how he handled 2,000+ job rejections, what it takes to build visibility on LinkedIn, and the personal cost of becoming a public figure.Whether you’re just starting out or making a career move within games, this conversation dives into how to stay consistent, build systems that last, and turn your passion for games into a long-term career.Connect with AmirLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amirsatvat/Website: https://amirsatvat.com/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro01:20 Thanksgiving 2022: How Amir’s journey to help began03:40 Breaking into games after 2,000 job rejections05:50 Family, remote work, and finding balance08:05 Persistence, purpose, and building career momentum11:50 Showing your passion vs. just saying it13:40 “I’ve done everything I can” mindset trap15:40 Networking, visibility, and why no one gets hired by accident20:25 Building relationships and using mentorship to get feedback25:05 The hidden job market and how most hiring really happens28:55 Creation of the Games Jobs Workbook and community34:20 Lessons from hosting and scaling gaming events36:20 Productivity, delegation, and avoiding burnout43:10 Who’s getting hired in games right now (data insights)45:20 Nepotism, referrals, and why trust drives hiring decisions49:00 Handling negativity and staying authentic online55:35 Why criticism doesn’t matter unless it’s from the right people59:00 Giving back without burning out01:02:30 Finding non-games work for gamers01:06:50 Final thoughts and where to connect with Amir#GameCareers #GamingIndustry #CareerAdvice #AmirSatvat #LinkedInGrowth

Ever wondered why some indie games blow up without “doing any marketing”? And why that idea frustrates real game marketers?In this episode, I sit down with Andrew Pappas, founder of RenGen Marketing and host of Indie Game Movement podcast, to unpack what real marketing looks like for indie studios in 2025. Andrew has worked with countless devs across the world to help them understand how to connect with players, build sustainable studios, and turn creative passion into commercial success.We talk about why marketing should start at the concept stage, how to identify player pain points before you even prototype, and why so many devs are leaving money on the table by ignoring empathy-driven marketing. Andrew also breaks down how to build trust-based content, choose the right marketing channels for your strengths, and craft systems that actually scale without burning out your team.This is a practical, no-fluff deep dive into how indie studios can market smarter, connect deeper with players, and build a real business around creativity, not just luck.Connect with Andrew:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewpappas-rengen/Website: https://www.rengenmarketing.com/Podcast: https://www.rengenmarketing.com/podcast/100-2/Newsletter: https://www.rengenmarketing.com/newsletter/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro02:40  Why marketing should start before development07:20 Demand-based vs solution-based thinking12:00 Using player pain points to design better games18:10 The risks of long dev cycles in a fast-changing market23:00 Marketing strategy vs marketing plan explained28:40 Why copying other studios’ marketing doesn’t work34:30 Leading with empathy to connect with players40:10 How to understand your players without being salesy46:50 Choosing the right channels for your indie game51:20 Building a repeatable marketing process57:00 Measuring resonance instead of raw reach1:03:20 Understanding your player’s buying journey1:08:40 Making marketing entertaining and memorable1:11:30 Andrew’s final advice for indie developers#IndieGameMarketing #GameDevPodcast #PlayerFirstDesign #SteamMarketing #IndieDevGrowth

Ever wondered how to scale a gaming studio to over 200+ staff without raising a single dollar of VC funding?In this episode, I sit down with Marcus Holmstrom, Co-Founder and CEO of The Gang, who shares how he built one of the world’s leading Roblox studios, and working with brands like FIFA, Netflix, Amazon, and Wimbledon, while pioneering the rise of UGC gaming.We talk about how Roblox developers are actually making huge money from their games, what’s driving the UGC boom, and why more traditional studios are starting to take notice. Marcus also breaks down how to build a remote-first team, hire the right people, and create games that find product-market fit fast.This is a practical, no-fluff deep dive into the business of modern gaming, from bootstrapping to global scale.Connect with Marcus:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcusholmstrom/Website: https://www.thegang.io/Press Kit: https://readymag.website/TheGang/Presskit-2025/Strongman Simulator: https://www.roblox.com/games/6766156863/Strongman-SimulatorConnect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.net01:10 Intro03:03 How The Gang was founded05:44 What Roblox really is (and why it matters)07:47 Why Grow a Garden became the biggest game ever09:25 How Roblox games make millions13:03 Building 40+ games in 5 years13:44 Working with brands like Netflix, FIFA & Amazon17:40 From hobby project to 300+ employees20:37 Why full-time staff beat contractors22:50 Running remote-first studios pre-COVID26:34 Using Discord as a digital office29:43 Culture, communication & daily structure32:04 Why the age demographics of Roblox matters35:43 Why major studios are now building on Roblox37:54 How monetization really works on Roblox42:40 Welcome to Bloxburg: a case study46:05 Why simplicity wins on Roblox48:05 The Strongman Simulator story (1.5B plays!)53:20 Parents, kids & spending on digital goods58:06 Health-based gaming & motion integration59:07 Hiring tips for scaling studios01:05:29 Final takeaways & how to contact The Gang#RobloxDevelopment #GamingBusiness #UGCgaming #GameDevPodcast #StartupGrowth

Dreaming of breaking into the games industry or scaling your studio?In this episode, John Wright (CEO of Turborilla) shares his journey from leaving accountancy to leading a studio with 200M+ downloads, plus hard-earned lessons on leadership, mobile publishing, and scaling games in today’s competitive market.We cover everything from transferable skills and breaking into gaming, to user acquisition strategies, playable ads, retention metrics, and building a motivated team.This is a raw, practical guide for anyone serious about games, leadership, and publishing.- Learn how to transition careers into gaming with no direct experience- Discover how CEOs manage change, culture, and accountability- Understand why retention and CPI make or break mobile games- Hear real-world lessons from $2B in user acquisition spend- Insider tips on networking, scaling, and sustaining success in gamingConnect with John:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnwright1987/Website: https://www.turborilla.com/Mad Skills Motocross 3: https://apps.apple.com/ua/app/mad-skills-motocross-3/id1508275130?l=en, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.turborilla.bike.racing.madskillsmotocross3&hl=ukConnect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro01:40 Episode roadmap: leadership, publishing, and game economics02:53 John’s background: identity crisis at 25 & leaving accountancy08:50 Advice for newcomers to the games industry17:40 What being CEO at Turborilla looks like23:16 How to manage change as a CEO26:43 Aligning people with business goals & accountability31:14 Structuring company goals and roadmaps35:15 The “happiness index” and motivating teams40:31 The rise of playable ads and lessons learned45:13 CPI, IPM, and industry metrics explained49:53 Zynga, Rollic, acquisitions & scaling user bases52:52 Profitability vs exits in gaming businesses58:46 What separates a “good” game from a scalable hit01:02:10 Retention, MVPs, and testing strategies01:06:01 Ads vs retention: which comes first?01:09:41 Strategies for new studios in a competitive market01:11:43 Understanding VC theses and their impact on funding01:17:23 Giving back to the gaming community01:21:53 The future of AI in game development01:25:31 Closing thoughts and ways to connect

In this episode of The Gaming Playbook, I sit down with Jon Hanson, founder of Skill Tree Marketing and former EA & Warner Bros. publishing exec, who left the AAA grind to help indie and AA studios thrive. Jon shares the unfiltered truth about indie game marketing: why most devs misunderstand it, how to validate your game without wasting years, and what it really takes to cut through the noise with limited budgets.Expect deep dives into:- The biggest misconceptions about indie game marketing- Why 30–50% of your budget should go to marketing (and how to use it wisely)- How to validate your game early with market research & paid UA- Case study: saving a VR game with better store optimization & ads- Steam wishlists: what they really mean and how to grow them effectively- Using Reddit, Discord & Facebook groups to reach players authentically- Why storytelling and community trust beat polished “corporate” marketing- Building a lean, sustainable business in a tough games marketWhether you’re an indie dev, a marketing lead, or a founder aiming to launch your first game, this episode is a brutally honest masterclass on how to market smarter, avoid costly mistakes, and turn your game into a business that lasts.Connect with Jon:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonhanson1/Website: https://skilltree-marketing.com/Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/user/SkillTreeMarketing/Connect with Harry:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hphokou/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hphokouInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hphokouGet exclusive podcast recaps & industry insights: → Subscribe to the Gaming Rally Newsletter www.gamingrally.netChapters:00:00 Intro01:23 Why Jon left AAA publishing to help indies03:09 Viral LinkedIn posts about Expedition 33 & Balatro05:30 Building a small but powerful indie-focused team09:02 Biggest misconceptions about game marketing10:39 Why marketing needs 30–50% of your budget11:34 When and how to start marketing your game13:50 Market research tools: AI, Reddit, Discord, LinkedIn16:12 Validating ideas without wasting years19:04 Case study: VR game turnaround with UA & optimization22:24 Paid UA done right vs. going “all in”24:32 Realistic ad spend returns for indie games26:13 Why indies overlook paid UA vs organic marketing28:16 Using UA to test game concepts before building31:55 Steam wishlists: myths, metrics & algorithms35:15 Discovery channels indies overlook (Reddit, Facebook groups, Discord)36:34 Building authentic community trust & engagement42:22 Discord support, authenticity, and winning trust45:16 Repeat customers & building a sustainable studio51:46 Running a business with 8 Chihuahuas & 3 horses54:40 Lessons learned starting a business: don’t go alone57:41 Final advice for indie devs on marketing59:54 How to connect with Jon and Skill Tree Marketing#IndieGameMarketing #GameDevTips #SteamWishlists #IndieDevJourney #GameMarketingStrategy