
The Leader’s Way
Join Brandon Nappi, DMin, and Hannah Black, PhD, on this audio pilgrimage from Berkeley Divinity School, the Episcopal seminary at Yale. Journey with us as we contemplate life’s biggest questions together. In this podcast, we interview leaders and scholars as we think through the Church in the world today, theology, leadership, and innovation. Join us on this pilgrimage, where we cultivate hope and find inspiration along the way. New episodes drop every other Monday.
Latest episodes

4 snips
Mar 4, 2024 • 40min
17: The Church and Prayer with Rowan Williams
The 104th Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, discusses church unity, vocation, and prayer. He shares insights on engaging in contemplative prayer, blending Buddhist practices with Christian traditions, and the transformative power of centering prayer in various settings. The episode explores finding hope amidst conflict and awakening to injustice, highlighting the impact of Bishop Rowan Williams' ministry.

Feb 19, 2024 • 48min
16: Metaphors with Joy Clarkson
Joy Marie Clarkson, PhD joins us to discuss her latest book You Are a Tree: And Other Metaphors to Nourish Life, Thought, and Prayer. Hannah, Brandon, and Joy talk about what metaphors are and why they’re so useful in preaching, theology, and life. They ponder how humans are more like trees than machines and explore the metaphor of love as disease. Clarkson tells the story of how she ended up with her social media presence, and she shares a bit about her other books The Clubhouse and Aggressively Happy.

Feb 5, 2024 • 51min
15: Ecumenical Dialogues with Jamie Hawkey
The Rev’d Dr. Jamie Hawkey, Canon Theologian of Westminster Abbey, joins us to talk about dialogues between the Anglican Communion and the Roman Catholic Church. We discuss church unity, prayer in theology, and engaging the public through mysticism and the arts. Jamie, Brandon, and Hannah get a chance to talk about their shared love of Italy.

Jan 22, 2024 • 50min
14: Compassionate Leadership with Vicentia Kgabe
The Rt. Rev'd Dr. Vicentia Kgabe is Bishop of Lesotho. Bishop Vinny is the third woman bishop in Southern Africa and the sixth on the African continent. In 2023, Kgabe was invited by Archbishop Justin Welby to preach at the opening service of the Lambeth conference. Bishop Vinny joins us to talk about leading with compassion rather than power. She reminds us of how God will get us to where we’re meant to be and of how essential it is to be rooted in prayer (in the pew or at the gym).

Jan 5, 2024 • 51min
13: Songwriting and Spirituality with Craig Minowa
Craig Minowa is a singer-songwriter and the frontman of Cloud Cult, an indie rock band. In this episode, Minowa shares how his songwriting process is something of a spiritual journey through darkness to light.

Jan 1, 2024 • 1h 2min
12: Hunkering with Brandon & Hannah
Join Brandon and Hannah for a special Happy New Year Hunker. Grab a mug of candy cane green tea, because today we’re talking dogs, nativities, dogs in nativities, preaching, prayer, pizza, and more.

Dec 16, 2023 • 34min
11: Thistle Farms with Becca Stevens
Becca Stevens, founder and president of Thistle Farms, joins us to reflect on her mission-driven work as a “love entrepreneur.” She shares stories from Thistle Farms, her wisdom about ministry outside of the parish, what it means that “love heals,” Thistle Farms Christmas present recommendations, and more!

Dec 11, 2023 • 50min
10: Trans Figured with Sophie Grace Chappell
Sophie Grace Chappell, the first openly transgender philosophy professor in the UK, shares her profound journey of self-discovery. She discusses navigating faith as a transgender person, revealing the challenges of reconciling her identity with a conservative religious background. The conversation touches on the significance of representation in the trans community, influenced by cultural touchstones like Harry Potter. Chappell also reflects on personal healing through music and the importance of creating supportive spaces for queer individuals.

Nov 27, 2023 • 32min
9: Theology in the Public Sphere with Angela Gorrell
This week, the Rev'd Dr. Angela Gorrell joins us, and we talk about public theology, hybrid ministry, the Taylor Swift Eras Tour, grief, lament, and joy.

Nov 13, 2023 • 30min
8: Leadership and the Joy of Parish Ministry with Winnie Varghese
In this episode, the Rev’d Winnie Varghese, Rector of St. Luke’s Episcopal Church in Atlanta, Georgia, joins us to talk about parish ministry. We chat about Mariology, in-person church in the wake of the pandemic, and joy in ministry.