

The Other 22 Hours
Michaela Anne, Aaron Shafer-Haiss
"Artistry flourishes in shared conversation."
Everyone struggles with self-doubt and motivation in their careers. The Other 22 Hours Podcast features conversations with renowned musicians and artists, sharing tools for resilience, helping you feel more inspired, connected, and confident in your creative journey.
Hosted by music producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss, and singer-songwriter Michaela Anne, these are artist-lead conversations - not your typical outsider journalist interviews.
Everyone struggles with self-doubt and motivation in their careers. The Other 22 Hours Podcast features conversations with renowned musicians and artists, sharing tools for resilience, helping you feel more inspired, connected, and confident in your creative journey.
Hosted by music producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss, and singer-songwriter Michaela Anne, these are artist-lead conversations - not your typical outsider journalist interviews.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jun 11, 2025 • 35min
Seth Walker on nomadic creativity, chasing anxiety, and silence.
Seth Walker is singer/songwriter, guitarist, author, and painter who grew up on a commune in North Carolina, has released 12(+) records, has toured and collaborated with The Mavericks, The Wood Brothers, Paul Thorn, and Raul Malo, amongst others, and wrote a book titled 'Your Van is on Fire," about the life of a touring musician. This conversation centers around mindfulness, presence, and awareness, and we touch on his nomadic creativity (having lived in NC, Nashville, Austin, New Orleans, and NYC), listening closely because peace speaks much quieter than anxiety, shedding the energy from the audience after the show, pointing towards the joy, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Seth WalkerGladys KnightWillie NelsonGuy ClarkJerry Jeff WalkerGary NicholsonEp 28 - The Wood BrothersEp 60 - Lori McKennaGabor Mate - When the Body Says NoClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Jun 4, 2025 • 1h 1min
Caitlyn Smith on editing stars, first drafts, and writer's block.
Caitlyn Smith is a singer and songwriter who has released 3 records via Sony and is now releasing music independently, she has a publishing deal with Universal (UMPG) and her songs have been recorded by Garth Brooks, Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers, Meghan Trainor, John Legend, Miley Cirus, Avicii, Lady A, Rascal Flatts, and Chris Isaak amongst others, and she has been nominated or won a Critics Choice Award, ACM and CMT Music Awards. We talk to Caitlyn about not moving from a major label to independence, not believing in writer's block, everyone's horrible first drafts, telling a massive star that they line they came up with just isn't good, and a whole lot about the business of songwriting.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Caitlyn SmithSony NashvilleTristenVanessa CarltonMiley CyrusAnne LamottJason AldeanTim McgrawEp 46 Mary Chapin CarpenterEp 100 Rosanne CashEp 63 Lori McKennaClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

May 28, 2025 • 52min
Wilder Woods (Bear Rinehart) on internally fueled disappointment, starting over, and frames.
Wilder Woods is the solo project of Bear Rinehart, the lead singer of multi-plantinum, Grammy-nominated, Billboard award winning, multiple Dove award-winning mega rock band NEEDTOBREATHE. We chat with Bear about how his prolific creative output forced his hand on starting Wilder Woods, juggling not only creating but performing with 2 drastically different projects, setting goals and intentions, knowing the path to those goals, internal perception of success and not only allowing things to unfold in their own time but enjoying them for what they are, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Wilder WoodsNEEDTOBREATHEp 60 - Lori McKennaNatalie HembyAnderson EastDaniel Tashian“The War of Art”Ep 27 - Mary GauthierEp 16 - Rodney CrowellBob Seger - Shame on the MoonJim ScottRyan TedderDrew HolcombEp 59 - Tyler RamseyPearl JamThe KillersTame ImpalaClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

May 21, 2025 • 58min
Daren Thomas Magee on tuning your instrument, funnels, and cliches.
Daren Thomas Magee - Real Fun, Wow! - is an illustrator, muralist, and designer based in Ojai California, who has used social media as a creative tool to grow a following (370,000 on instagram currently) and launch a company built on his artwork - selling prints, apparel and housewares of all kinds, and has grown to include multiple employees and collaborations with companies as far reaching as tiles, towels, and candles. We talk with Daren about tuning your instrument to the beauty of life around you, sacrifices you make to live in an inspiring place, play within a system not designed for play, creative inspiration in creating performative social media, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Darren Thomas MageeReal fun, wow!Keith Richards“1000 True Fans” essayBeyonceClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

May 14, 2025 • 49min
Laurie Berkner on improvising songs, selling back catalogs, and stigmas.
Laurie Berkner has released 15 best-selling records, has performed everywhere from The White House to Carnegie Hall and The Today Show, authored children's books based on her songs, written music and lyrics for 3 different off-Broadway shows, and is one of today's most prominent artist's for kids. We talk to Laurie about her transition from rock bands and 'adult' music, to writing and performing music for kids and the assumptions and stigma around that, self-distributing on a large scale, selling your back catalog, navigating changes in the industry, improvising songs experientially, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Laurie BerknerRaffiDaniel TigerToniesYotoKidz BopRazor and Tie“After Ecstasy, The Laundry”Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

May 7, 2025 • 49min
Denison Witmer on patience, embracing imperfection, and woodworking.
Denison Witmer is a singer/songwriter and woodworking from Lancaster PA and longtime collaborator of Sufjan Stevens, who has been releasing records for 20+ years acclaimed by the likes of NPR and Stereogum, and ran a recording studio in Brooklyn before returning to PA. We talk to Denison about the value of creative documentation, leaving behind the external stimulation of the city (Brooklyn) and how returning to relative quiet (Lancaster) shook up his creativity, embracing imperfection, the parallels and contrasts between woodworking and record making, putting systems in place to be the person/artist you want to be, patience, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Denison WitmerSufjan StevensSaltlandsDawn LandesFelix McTeigueChappel RoanCharles MingusEp 85 - Caroline SpenceEp 39 - Joe HenryMLS DocCavan SullivanClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Apr 30, 2025 • 47min
Valerie June on the law of attraction, a malleable life, and testing limits.
Valerie June is a Grammy-nominated singer/songwriter whose music has been praised by Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, The New Yorker, NPR, and Bob Dylan himself (who is a self-proclaimed fan). She has performed with John Prine, Norah Jones, Booker T. Jones, Robert Plant, Meshell Ndegeocello, Dave Matthews, Angelique Kidjo, Willie Nelson, Brandi Carlile, and Elvis Costello, written books of poetry and on art, and is a certified yoga and mindfulness instructor. We talk to Valerie about intention setting and the law of attraction, learning to live with chronic illness, testing different approaches and your creative limits, manifesting, rituals and routines to get ready to be present for people, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Valerie JuneEp 39 - Joe HenryEp 17 - Elizabeth Cook'The Artist's Way' Elizabeth CottonMississippi John HurtSkip JamesCarla ThomasClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Apr 23, 2025 • 55min
Marla Frazee on creative chronologies, childhood mindsets, and cracking the code.
Marla Frazee is an illustrator and author who is a 3x Caldecott Honors recipient (for distinguished American picture book for children), the Boston Globe Horn Book Award, is a NY Times Bestseller, she illustrated Hillary Clinton's children's book ("It Takes a Village"), and her own book "The Boss Baby" was the basis for the Oscar-nominated animated film of the same name (made by Dreamworks). We talk about getting into your childhood mindset of why you wanted to make art, narrowing in on what is vital in a project vs tackling everything, cracking the code and "figuring out" what a project/piece of work is, functional art versus art for arts sake, trust, and more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Marla FrazeeEp 96 Maggie Smith“All The World”“Everywhere Babies”“The World’s Greatest Toy Expert”“In Every Life”Ep 16 Rodney CrowellEp 28 The Wood BrothersCheryl Strayed “Wild”Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Apr 16, 2025 • 52min
Rosanne Cash on allowing yourself to be called an artist, respect, and rituals.
Rosanne Cash is a 4-time Grammy-winning member of the Songwriters Hall of Fame, who has released over a dozen albums and published 5 books, has had her (prose) writing featured in the likes of Oxford American, The New York Times, and The Atlantic, was the 2020 recipient of the Edward MacDowell Medal for outstanding contributions to American culture, and holds an honorary doctorate from Berklee College of Music. We talk with Rosanne about navigating insecurity and imposter syndrome, measuring your own success by your talent and not your validation, allowing yourself to be called an artist, prose vs songwriting, respect for yourself and for the audience, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Rosanne CashJoan Baez SF eventEp 47 - Margo PriceTom Morello“House on the Lake”John Stewart Martha Graham“I Will Miss What I Wanted to Lose”Maria Callas memoireEp 39 - Joe HenryTom WaitsClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Apr 9, 2025 • 42min
Tift Merritt on constant flowering, the growing edge, and sound installations.
Tift Merritt is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter and practitioner-in-residence at the Franklin Humanities Institute and Duke University, she has released records via Lost Highway, Fantasy Records, and Yep Roc Records, performed with Joan Baez and Kris Kristofferson, and had a (pre-podcast type) show on Marfa Public Radio about the artistic process and integrity, called The Spark. We talk with Tift about intentionally stepping back from touring and the full-time music industry, seeking the growing edge, surviving without social media, the fallacy of constant flowering, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Tift MerrittThe SparkRosanne CashDorris BettsClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.


