

New Modern Mom Podcast
Barbara Mighdoll
You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll, a former tech marketing executive and founder of New Modern Mom, chats with other working moms on how to simplify the chaos of career and motherhood.
Each episode highlights the raw truth behind every successful woman: the mental load, support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity tips, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt and burnout, division of labor, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’ll discover the tools and systems these remarkable women are using to find work-life fulfillment.
Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.
Get bonus strategies and takeaways from each guest by subscribing at newsletter.newmodernmom.com and connect with us on Instagram @newmodernmom.
The New Modern Mom podcast is produced in partnership with Alexandra Alquiza and Emily Roberts.
Each episode highlights the raw truth behind every successful woman: the mental load, support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity tips, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt and burnout, division of labor, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’ll discover the tools and systems these remarkable women are using to find work-life fulfillment.
Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.
Get bonus strategies and takeaways from each guest by subscribing at newsletter.newmodernmom.com and connect with us on Instagram @newmodernmom.
The New Modern Mom podcast is produced in partnership with Alexandra Alquiza and Emily Roberts.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 14, 2025 • 11min
Toolkit Series: Boundless Life vs. Local Camps: Lessons from Our Summers Abroad
Ever dreamed of spending the summer abroad but not sure if you should go with an organized program like Boundless Life or plan it all yourself with local camps? In this Toolkit Series episode of The New Modern Mom Podcast, host Barbara Mighdoll unpacks the two most common paths families consider: joining a structured cohort like Boundless Life or taking the DIY route by piecing together your own local camp experience abroad.Barbara’s done both, and this summer, she’s introducing a third option: Roam Collective, a curated summer experience she’s co-creating in Spain taking what she’s learned from both experiences to create her dream program. In this episode, she pulls back the curtain on what each approach actually looks like, from cost breakdowns and childcare setups to how community is built…or not, when you’re navigating new terrain with kids for the summer.Whether you’re dreaming of slow mornings in Europe or just trying to figure out how to keep your kids engaged while you work abroad, this conversation will help you choose the route that fits your lifestyle, bandwidth, and season of life.What you’ll learn: 🌍 The pros and cons of organized programs like Boundless Life - What you really get when you join a structured family travel cohort and what you might give up in flexibility or control.🏡 What a DIY summer abroad actually looks like - From researching camps to booking housing and managing logistics, Barbara shares what it takes to pull it off yourself (and why it’s not for everyone).💶 The true cost of each option - Barbara breaks down real numbers for camp fees, housing, and hidden extras plus the mental load that comes with each choice.🧳 How to prepare for either route - Her checklist for getting started: from setting a decision deadline to tracking flights, aligning family goals, and evaluating your planning energy.🧠 A 5-step exercise to make your decision easier - Barbara walks you through the same toolkit she used to decide between Boundless and DIY so you can feel confident about what’s right for your family this summer.Resources:Learn more about Roam Collective hereAccess Barbara’s local summer camp research by signing up hereGet €400 off Boundless Life with code NEWMODERNMOMEspecially helpful for moms searching for:→ How to decide between an organized family travel program and a DIY summer abroad→ Real, honest review of Boundless Life→ Insights on the costs, logistics, and community experience of living abroad with kids→ Tips for planning a summer abroad that actually works with your work schedule→ What to look for in camps, childcare, and housing when traveling with young kids→ A practical framework to choose the best approach for your family’s season of lifeFollow Barbara Mighdoll:On Instagram hereSubscribe to Barbara’s newsletter hereAbout New Modern Mom: You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll chats with other working mom executives on the raw truth behind their support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt, partner dynamics, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’re exploring how these incredible women are translating their professional superpowers into their personal lives. Because we believe you can have it all, you just cannot do it all. Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.The New Modern Mom Podcast is produced by Barbara Mighdoll, Ali Alquiza, and Em Roberts.

Oct 1, 2025 • 9min
Toolkit Series: Why Habit Stacking Works (And How to Start Today)
Ever feel like your days are packed but still don’t feel purposeful? Like you’re running on autopilot, but not in the ways that actually matter? This mini-episode of the New Modern Mom Podcast Toolkit Series is here to change that.Host, Barbara Mighdoll, introduces you to habit stacking, a simple yet powerful strategy for aligning your daily actions with the life you actually want. Instead of piling on new to-dos or forcing yourself into rigid routines, habit stacking shows you how to pair small intentional habits with things you already do. The result? Less decision fatigue, more flow, and a greater sense of calm in the chaos of working motherhood.What makes this episode unique is Barbara’s reframing of habit stacking: not as a productivity hack, but as a lifestyle design tool. She shares candid examples from her own life, like stretching while brushing her teeth or pairing a money check-in with a date night. She proves that habits can feel natural and enjoyable, not like one more thing on your list. This is the episode you’ll want to return to whenever you feel like your days are running you instead of the other way around.What you’ll learn: ✨ The science behind habit stacking — What research really says about how long it takes to form habits and why stacking them onto existing routines makes them stick.🦷 Real-life examples of habit stacking — From brushing your teeth and stretching at night, to pairing workouts with podcasts, to using school drop-off as a cue to connect with friends.💡 Why habit stacking isn’t about doing more — It’s a mindset shift that makes habits the building blocks of the life you’re designing, instead of chores on a checklist.🧘 How habit stacking reduces decision fatigue — Fewer decisions, more flow. Free up mental space for the things that matter most.📓 A practical exercise for working moms — Reverse-engineer your routines by asking how you want to feel at the end of the day, then pair small habits to get there.By the end of this episode, you’ll walk away with a toolkit for creating micro-moments of alignment without overhauling your entire schedule.If you’ve ever thought, “I want to feel calmer, more accomplished, or more connected, but I just don’t have the time,” this episode will shift your perspective. Because the truth is: you don’t need more time, you just need smarter stacks.Especially helpful for moms searching for:→ How to design daily routines that align with the life you want→ Practical habit hacks to feel calmer, more connected, and more accomplished→ How to build lasting habits without adding more to your plate→ Simple real-life examples of habit stacking for busy moms→ Ways to reduce decision fatigue and feel more in controlFollow Barbara Mighdoll:On Instagram hereSubscribe to Barbara’s newsletter hereAbout New Modern Mom: You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll chats with other working mom executives on the raw truth behind their support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt, partner dynamics, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’re exploring how these incredible women are translating their professional superpowers into their personal lives. Because we believe you can have it all, you just cannot do it all. Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.The New Modern Mom Podcast is produced by Barbara Mighdoll, Ali Alquiza, and Em Roberts.

Sep 16, 2025 • 30min
Toolkit Series: How to Select a Summer Camp in Europe with Maddy Novich @CargoBikeMomma
What if your dream of spending a summer in Europe, working remote while your kids are off at camp, wasn’t just a fantasy?In this episode, host Barbara Mighdoll, who has spent the past two summers in Europe with her family, is joined by NYC-based mom Maddy Novich (@CargoBikeMomma), who has spent the past six years sending her kids to summer camp across Europe while traveling as a family, working remotely, and living abroad on a realistic budget.Together, they share a practical, behind-the-scenes conversation on how to plan a family summer abroad with confidence. They cover everything from choosing the right destination and finding English-speaking camps in Europe to budgeting smartly and using home exchanges for affordable, family-friendly housing. Whether you’re exploring worldschooling, curious about Boundless Life, or just ready for a more intentional summer, this episode gives you real advice from two moms who have been there.What You’ll Learn:🌍 Destination or. Camp First? – How to decide where to start and what factors to consider📋 Non-Negotiables Checklist – Walkability, coworking, healthcare, playgrounds, and lifestyle fit🔍 Research Shortcuts – Tips for using YouTube, Instagram, expat groups, and international school directories💶 Camp Costs – What to actually expect and how prices compare to U.S. camps.🏠 Home Exchanges 101 – How to stay in family-ready homes across Europe with minimal cost, plus how to tap into trusted local childcare✅ Vetting Camps With Confidence – Key questions to ask, how to connect with alumni families, and what the enrollment process looks likeEspecially helpful for moms searching for:→ How to plan a European summer abroad with kids while working remote→ Summer camp in Europe for English-speaking families→ Best cities in Europe for kids→ Worldschooling vs Boundless Life vs local camps→ Home exchange tips for affordable family travel→ Budgeting for a European summer with kids→ Remote work tips for parents spending summer in Europe→ How to research and vet local kids' campsFollow Maddy Novich:On Instagram hereSubscribe to Maddy’s newsletter hereFollow Barbara Mighdoll:On Instagram hereSubscribe to Barbara’s newsletter hereAbout New Modern Mom: You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll chats with other working mom executives on the raw truth behind their support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt, partner dynamics, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’re exploring how these incredible women are translating their professional superpowers into their personal lives. Because we believe you can have it all, you just cannot do it all. Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.The New Modern Mom Podcast is produced by Barbara Mighdoll, Ali Alquiza, and Em Roberts.

Sep 2, 2025 • 20min
Toolkit Series: How to Hire a House Manager with Expert Kelly Hubbell of Sage Haus
Feeling overwhelmed by household chores? Discover how hiring a house manager can change your life. Experts discuss the essential roles these helpers can play, from meal prep to errands, allowing you to finally relax. Learn tips on finding the right fit, creating clear job descriptions, and the realities of costs. Plus, get practical steps for the hiring process and onboarding. This conversation is a game-changer for busy moms looking to reclaim their time and reduce stress at home.

Aug 20, 2025 • 15min
Toolkit Series: Financial Planning as a Couple; The Money Date, Part 1
What if talking about money with your husband didn’t feel like a chore or a fight, but actually brought you closer?In this Toolkit Series episode, host Barbara Mighdoll is joined by her husband Jason Mighdoll for a down-to-earth, behind-the-scenes look at how they went from having totally different money styles to building a shared financial plan that works for both of them.They’re getting into the real stuff: how they learned to talk (and listen) about money, make aligned decisions as a couple, and create space for both big dreams and everyday joy. Yes, this is the same plan that helped them buy two local businesses, go all-in on building MNTSTUDIO, and still make room in the budget for a full summer living in Europe with their kids.Spoiler: There were spreadsheets... and some strong opinions.You’ll hear how Barbara and Jason:Navigated totally different money mindsets (spender vs. saver, anyone?)Created a shared definition of financial freedomStarted their own version of a “Money Date” that actually works—and doesn’t feel stressfulIf you’ve ever wanted to retire early, take a family sabbatical, or just stop having the same argument about Amazon orders, this episode is for you.What You’ll Learn: 💬 Redefining Financial Freedom as a Couple — Why your personal definition matters more than any trending advice🔥 FIRE, but Make It Realistic — Adapting Financial Independence principles without sacrificing joy today💡 Bridging Money Mindsets — What to do when you and your partner have different financial habits📈 From Reactive to Proactive — The apps and systems they use to make financial planning feel doable🛠 The Money Date Blueprint — A 4-step guide to having calm, productive money talks (even if you hate budgeting)Especially helpful for moms searching for:→ Best personal finance podcasts for couples→ How to talk about money with your spouse without fighting→ Financial planning tips for working moms→ Easy ways to align on financial goals in marriage→ Budgeting strategies for dual-income families→ How to plan for early retirement as parents→ Saving for family vacations while investing for the future→ Money management tips for busy parents→ Real-life financial independence stories for moms→ Financial goal setting for couples with kidsListen now and walk away with a few small shifts that’ll make a big difference.Follow Jason Mighdoll:On LinkedIn hereFollow Barbara Mighdoll::On Instagram hereOn LinkedIn hereAbout New Modern Mom: You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll chats with other working mom executives on the raw truth behind their support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt, partner dynamics, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’re exploring how these incredible women are translating their professional superpowers into their personal lives. Because we believe you can have it all, you just cannot do it all. Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.The New Modern Mom Podcast is produced by Barbara Mighdoll, Ali Alquiza, and Em Roberts.

Aug 5, 2025 • 11min
Toolkit Series: 5 Back-to-School Strategies for a Smooth Transition
If August feels more like survival mode than a fresh start, you're not alone.In this honest and actionable episode of The New Modern Mom Podcast: Toolkit Series, host Barbara Mighdoll reflects on the logistical chaos that caught her off guard last year: forgotten forms, last-minute lunch packing, zero time for herself, and a mental load that felt completely unmanageable. This year, she’s doing things differently, and she’s sharing the exact five steps she’s putting into practice now to bring more ease, structure, and breathing room into her family’s back-to-school routine.This isn’t about complicated systems or Pinterest-perfect checklists. It’s about real tools for real working moms, tools that help you feel prepared instead of scrambling.Inside this episode, you’ll learn: 📘 A therapist-backed Social Story method that helps ease your child’s back-to-school jitters (and helps you avoid daily drop-off drama) ⏰ Why test-driving your morning routine now, before school starts, can make a huge difference (yes, even if your schedule’s still all over the place) 🎒 How to get your kid involved in school prep in simple, meaningful ways that don’t just add to your to-do list 📋 A night-before checklist that keeps mornings from imploding (plus the visual trick that keeps the whole house on track) 📆 A ChatGPT calendar hack that adds every school holiday and early release to your calendar automatically (because no one has time to do that manually)Whether you're navigating the first year of kindergarten or juggling multiple school drop-offs, this episode is filled with practical tips for working moms who want to start the school year feeling calm, confident, and a little more in control.Perfect for moms searching for: → Back to school tips for working moms → School morning routine hacks → How to prep kids for kindergarten → ChatGPT for busy moms → Family organization tools → Managing the mental load as a parentListen now and walk away with a few small shifts that’ll make a big difference.Resources mentioned:ChatGPT Hack for Back-to-School CalendaringChatGPT Prompt for Creating a Social StoryJoin the August Early Risers Club to commit to no more snoozing your alarmFollow Barbara:On Instagram hereOn LinkedIn hereAbout New Modern Mom: You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll chats with other working mom executives on the raw truth behind their support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt, partner dynamics, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’re exploring how these incredible women are translating their professional superpowers into their personal lives. Because we believe you can have it all, you just cannot do it all. Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.The New Modern Mom Podcast is produced by Barbara Mighdoll, Ali Alquiza, and Em Roberts.

Jul 22, 2025 • 14min
Toolkit Series: 10 Unexpected Items to Pack on an International Trip with Kids
Ever stared at an empty suitcase the night before a big international trip with your kids, wondering how on earth you’ll fit it all and not forget something essential? You’re not alone, and this episode is here to save you from the stress spiral.In this Toolkit Series episode from The New Modern Mom Podcast, host Barbara Mighdoll gets real about what it actually takes to pack smart for international travel with little kids. As a seasoned traveler and mom of two, Barbara has done the trial-and-error for you including 8 international trips with babies, toddlers, and now a future kindergartener. And spoiler: it’s not about packing more, it’s about packing smarter.This isn’t your basic “remember your toothbrush” kind of list. Instead, Barbara dives deep into the extras that actually make a difference when you're managing long-haul flights, jet lag, unfamiliar accommodations, and a different routine in a different time zone. From the carry-on must-haves you’ll wish you’d brought, to the important gear you never knew existed, this episode is a must-listen for any parent prepping for international travel, especially if you’re balancing work and family life.Whether you’re a minimalist, a routine-keeper, or a just-in-case packer, you’ll walk away with practical tools and strategies to help you feel confident and prepared, not overwhelmed, before your next family trip abroad.In this episode, you’ll learn:🧳 The three types of parent-packers and how knowing your type leads to a smoother tripUnderstand whether you’re a minimalist, a routine-keeper, or a just-in-case packer, and what that means for your luggage and your sanity.✈️ The on-flight MVPs that make long-haul travel manageableDiscover the carry-on essentials every parent should have on a plane, from mini first aid kits to shelf-stable milk cartons and activity packs that actually work.😴 The sleep essentials that help your kids rest in unfamiliar placesLearn what to pack to recreate your child’s sleep environment on the road, from portable blackout curtains to sound machines and night lights.👶 The gear upgrades that make travel easier (and avoid major meltdowns)Find out why your daily stroller won’t cut it, the hip toddler carrier you never knew you needed, and the car seat vest that changes everything.📝 A simple method to build your personalized packing listBarbara shares her go-to 24-hour routine planning method to make sure you pack only what you actually use, no overpacking or forgotten essentials.Whether you're planning your first trip abroad with littles or you’re a seasoned traveling parent looking to streamline your process, this episode will arm you with the practical tools and real-world mom-tested wisdom to make your next international trip less chaotic and a lot more fun.Need help packing for your next international trip? Grab our go-to international packing list designed specifically for moms traveling with kids, so you can pack with confidence, not chaos.If you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a fellow mom planning their next big adventure.Follow Barbara:On Instagram hereOn LinkedIn hereAbout New Modern Mom: You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll chats with other working mom executives on the raw truth behind their support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt, partner dynamics, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’re exploring how these incredible women are translating their professional superpowers into their personal lives. Because we believe you can have it all, you just cannot do it all. Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.The New Modern Mom Podcast is produced by Barbara Mighdoll, Ali Alquiza, and Em Roberts.

Jul 15, 2025 • 17min
Toolkit Series: What to Outsource to Reclaim Your Time
Discover the secret to thriving as a high-achieving mom: strategic outsourcing. This conversation dismantles the myth that success means doing it all alone. Learn how to overcome guilt and mental barriers that prevent you from asking for help. Uncover practical tips for building a reliable support network, ensuring a healthier work-life balance. From identifying tasks to delegate to reimagining home roles, this insightful discussion empowers you to reclaim your time and find more peace in your busy life.

Jun 17, 2025 • 11min
Toolkit Series: 3 Small Shifts That Will Radically Improve Your Life
The pressure to be everything to everyone is real and exhausting. But what if just a few small changes could completely shift how you move through your day? I’m sharing 3 simple but powerful tools that are helping me find calm in the chaos and show up as my best self at work and at home.In this episode of our toolkit series, host Barbara Mighdoll shares three of the most powerful, actionable life hacks she learned from guests on Season 1. These are real shifts that are helping her actually manage the chaos of working motherhood. These aren’t vague productivity tips or recycled self-care mantras. This is the practical stuff, the “I started doing this immediately and it changed my day” kind of stuff.From the art of context switching between mom mode and work mode to reframing the perfectionist mindset to get more done in the day and finding ways to rest that don’t come with guilt, Barbara reveals the strategies that are sticking with her. You won’t leave overwhelmed, you’ll leave with clear, doable takeaways you can put into action today.In this episode, you’ll learn:🔁 Mastering the Transition between Mom Mode & Work MomLearn how to create intentional transitions between “mom mode” and “work mode,” even if you work from home and your commute is five steps. These 15-minute rituals can change everything about how you show up in both worlds.📵 The Phone-Free Morning Ritual That Lowers Cortisol and Increases ClarityBarbara shares the habit that completely changed her mornings: no phone until the last kid is dropped off. Plus, how she uses her commute for connection and calm instead of a to-do list.💭 Breaking the Perfectionist Cycle with “No Zero Days”Discover how Barbara and guest Divya Gugnani reframe progress with one simple mindset that makes consistency in the habits you want to uphold in your day possible, even on your busiest days.🧘♀️ Redefining Rest as ProductiveHitha Palepu shares how the concept of “Gentle Wednesdays” is helping her reframe rest as a necessary tool for success, not something to earn.🗂️ Three Shifts You Can Do TodayYou’ll leave with one bite-sized, super achievable action for each of the three major areas covered in this episode. Follow Barbara:On Instagram hereOn LinkedIn hereFollow Kim:On LinkedIn hereFollow Divya:On Instagram hereOn LinkedIn hereFollow Hitha:On Instagram hereOn LinkedIn hereAbout New Modern Mom: You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll chats with other working mom executives on the raw truth behind their support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt, partner dynamics, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’re exploring how these incredible women are translating their professional superpowers into their personal lives. Because we believe you can have it all, you just cannot do it all. Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.The New Modern Mom Podcast is produced by Barbara Mighdoll, Ali Alquiza, and Em Roberts.

May 20, 2025 • 18min
Toolkit Series: Demystifying the Au Pair Program
Hiring an au pair completely changed how Barbara’s family functions, and in this episode, she’s sharing exactly how and why.Whether you’re a working parent looking for more flexible childcare, a dual-career couple juggling inconsistent schedules, or just curious about how the au pair system compares to traditional nannies, this is a must-listen. In this mini-episode of our Toolkit Series, host Barbara Mighdoll shares her candid experience with four different au pairs (and two nannies) and breaks down the real-life pros, cons, and logistics you actually need to know.You’ll also hear an unreleased clip from the original episode with Samantha Wu, CMO of Eventbrite and former CMO of Facebook at Meta, who shares her own au pair experiences and wisdom from life as a high-powered executive and mom of two. If you've ever wondered whether an au pair could transform the way your family operates, this conversation offers the clarity, structure, and gut-check questions you need.In this episode, you’ll learn:👶 What an au pair is—and why it might be a better fit than daycare or a nannyUnderstand the structure, rules, and unique features of the au pair program, including legal hour limits and household responsibilities.💸 The real cost of hiring an au pairBarbara compares the annual expenses of an au pair vs. a full-time nanny and explains what’s included in the price.🛫 Why au pairs are ideal for parents looking for flexibility,Learn how au pairs can adjust to your changing schedule, help with travel logistics, and offer reliability that’s hard to find with other forms of childcare.🏠 How to evaluate if your family is truly ready to have an au pairWalk through a step-by-step readiness workshop with your partner to determine if this live-in childcare model aligns with your lifestyle and boundaries.🧠 What makes an au pair relationship work—and where it can fall apartFrom mismatched expectations to communication pitfalls, Barbara and Samantha share lessons learned and actionable advice to ensure your success from day one.If you’re looking for an honest, mom-to-mom guide to navigating the au pair world, this episode is your toolkit. You’ll walk away with not just knowledge—but a process you can start using today.Need help crafting interview questions for your au pair? Start here.Follow Barbara:On Instagram hereOn LinkedIn hereFollow Samantha:On LinkedIn hereAbout New Modern Mom: You know the dream of having it all – a thriving career, an active social life, present time with your kids, and adventures in travel. But how the F can we actually do it all? Host Barbara Mighdoll chats with other working mom executives on the raw truth behind their support systems, self-identity shifts, productivity, infertility and pregnancy loss, mom guilt, partner dynamics, childcare and even imposter syndrome. We’re exploring how these incredible women are translating their professional superpowers into their personal lives. Because we believe you can have it all, you just cannot do it all. Together, we’re building the playbook for the new modern mom.The New Modern Mom Podcast is produced by Barbara Mighdoll, Ali Alquiza, and Em Roberts.


