
A Pastor and a Philosopher Walk into a Bar
Mixing a cocktail of philosophy, theology, and spirituality. We're a pastor and a philosopher who have discovered that sometimes pastors need philosophy, and sometimes philosophers need pastors. We tackle topics and interview guests that straddle the divide between our interests. Who we are: Randy Knie (Co-Host) - Randy is the founding and Lead Pastor of Brew City Church in Milwaukee, WI. Randy loves his family, the Church, cooking, and the sound of his own voice. He drinks boring pilsners. Kyle Whitaker (Co-Host) - Kyle is a philosophy PhD and an expert in disagreement and philosophy of religion. Kyle loves his wife, sarcasm, kindness, and making fun of pop psychology. He drinks childish slushy beers. Elliot Lund (Producer) - Elliot is a recovering fundamentalist. His favorite people are his wife and three boys, and his favorite things are computers and hamburgers. Elliot loves mixing with a variety of ingredients, including rye, compression, EQ, and bitters.
Latest episodes

Jul 28, 2023 • 1h 20min
The Meeting That Changed the Church
Text us your questions!Many Protestants don't understand or appreciate how transformational Vatican II was for the Catholic Church and the whole global Christian Church in general. Our friend and Catholic theologian Shaun Blanchard co-wrote a book called Vatican II: A Very Short Introduction. In this episode, we chat with Shaun about the size, scope, and impact of Vatican II in the 1960s, and we wonder about when the next changes at the next Vatican Council might be.In this episode, we tasted a barrel select of Eagle Rare from our friends at Story Hill BKC in Milwaukee, WI.To skip the tasting, go to 9:21.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Jul 14, 2023 • 1h 15min
Arguing About the Enneagram
Text us your questions!If you're an American evangelical or used to be, there's a good chance you've heard of the Enneagram. You may have even run into it in another context or heard about it from friends who are really into personality tests. We've discussed it briefly on the show before, and we've wanted to eventually give it its own episode because Randy has found it really beneficial and Kyle is a bit of a skeptic.Lo and behold, one of our Patreon supporters, Jeff Cook, is, like, the Enneagram guru, in addition to having a background as both a pastor and a philosopher. Go figure. Jeff reached out and proposed a conversation about what the Enneagram is, what its particular strengths are, and some of Kyle's objections to it. He's joined by TJ Wilson, his co-host of Around the Circle and two other Enneagram-focused podcasts.It's a fun, serious, personal, and respectful conversation about a topic that a lot of Christians today care a lot about. An argument, in the best sense.*Some resources mentioned in the conversation are:Around the Circle podcastStart Here podcastMovie Typing podcastWhat’s Wrong with the Enneagram (Kyle's article)The beverages sampled in this episode are:Glenmorangie SignetWhiskey Acres Straight RyeFounders Brewing Co. Breakfast StoutTo skip the tasting, go to 3:38.You can find the transcript for this episode here. *Note: in philosophy, arguments are good things.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Jun 30, 2023 • 1h 18min
Why the Church Should Be LGBTQ+ Affirming With Tom and Alexa Oord
Text us your questions!Tom Oord is back! Dr. Thomas Oord and his daughter Alexa compiled and edited a book called Why the Church of the Nazarene Should be Fully LGBTQ+ Affirming." We wanted to talk to them about the book because everyone in the church (not just the Church of the Nazarene) is talking about human sexuality and whether or not the church should be LGBTQ+ affirming. LGBTQ+ inclusion and affirmation is something that's really important to us, and we love making space to have these much-needed conversations with scholars and, more importantly, queer people in and around the church to keep moving this essential conversation forward.For more on this topic, check out our previous episodes from Season 2: LGBTQ, the Church, and Why We're Affirming, Heavy Burdens: Interview with Bridget Eileen Rivera (Part 1), Heavy Burdens: Interview with Bridget Eileen Rivera (Part 2), and LGBTQ Christians, Shame, and Love: Interview with Dawne Moon and Theresa Tobin. In this episode, we tasted Little Elliot, a blueberry session mead from Manic Meadery. Jump to 7:05 to skip the tasting.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: this episode contains explicit discussion of sex and sexuality.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Jun 16, 2023 • 1h 14min
Is God All Powerful? A Conversation with Thomas Jay Oord
Text us your questions!We speak with theologian and philosopher (and former pastor) Thomas Jay Oord about his new book The Death of Omnipotence and the Birth of Amipotence. We cover Tom's objections to the classical idea that God is all powerful, including that it's unbiblical, philosophically unsound, and makes the problem of evil impossible to solve.It's a fun interview and Tom is a good sport about putting up with Kyle's objections and quibbles. We get into the weeds a bit on this one, but given the significance of Tom's thesis and its implications for the problem of evil and suffering (and theism itself), the weeds are important. We barely scratch the surface of these issues, and in some ways this is an introductory discussion to other aspects of Tom's thought about God, which we hope to explore more with him in future conversations. As always, let us know your thoughts!In this episode, we tasted the exquisite Barrell Bourbon Batch 034. As Randy said, "Tasting this bourbon right now makes doing this podcast worth it." Grab a bottle if you see one. To skip the tasting, jump to 8:05.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: This episode contains discussion of the problem of evil, suffering, and theodicy, as well as some mild profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Jun 2, 2023 • 1h 12min
Certainty, Hell, Evil, and Universalism: A Conversation with Keith DeRose
Text us your questions!If you heard our recent episode on hell and universalism, you may recall that Randy mentioned having Keith DeRose, a philosopher at Yale, on the show at some point to respond to some of the objections Kyle had to universalism (the idea that everyone is eventually reconciled to God). Well, we reached out to Keith and he graciously agreed to chat with us. Our conversation covers more ground than just universalism though; we also discuss certainty, the problem of evil and theodicy, and why Keith is uncomfortable at Easter and funerals. And yes, he responds to some of Kyle's worries about universalism. It's on the headier end of the spectrum for our episodes, but we like to throw those in every now and then. We hope you enjoy it.The resources that Keith mentions in the episode can be found on this PPWB-specific page that he put up at his site. How cool is that?In this episode, we tasted the stunning Elijah Craig Barrel Proof (B522). To skip the tasting, jump to 5:41.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: instances of horrendous evil are discussed in this episode in the context of the problem of evil and theodicy. This is not an episode for children.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

May 19, 2023 • 1h 4min
Rescuing Sex and Raising Girls: Sheila Gregoire
Text us your questions!Sheila Gregoire is an author who has written several books that break the mold of Christian books about sex and marriage. Her latest book, She Deserves Better, is about raising girls as followers of Christ in ways that leave purity culture and teaching about modesty in the dust while showing us a better way. We also talked to Sheila about her 2021 book The Great Sex Rescue, in which she points out the inherent misogyny in a vast majority of Christian books about sex and proposes a new way to create a sexual dynamic that promotes flourishing for women and men.In this episode, we tasted Driftless Glen's Port Barrel Finished Bourbon.If you're not interested in the bourbon tasting, skip to the 7:00 mark for the interview. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Content note: this episode contains themes of sexual abuse and rape.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

May 5, 2023 • 1h 10min
How the Brain Constructs Reality: Interview with Andy Clark
Text us your questions!Every now and then we like to talk to someone who is an expert in something we know almost nothing about. What better topic than philosophy and neuroscience? Andy Clark is Professor of Cognitive Philosophy at the University of Sussex, and is a well-known voice within philosophy of mind, pushing the boundaries of how we conceive of the brain, its connections with our environment, and in his new book, how it actively constructs our experience through prediction. The book is The Experience Machine: How Our Minds Predict and Shape Reality. We have a delightfully nerdy, scientific, and humble conversation with Andy about everything from why we sometimes feel our phones vibrating when they're not there, to whether AI can match human brains, to psychedelics, to whether there is a hard problem of consciousness. We even get him to talk a bit about religion. We barely scratch the surface, but it was a lot of fun!The beverage we taste in this episode is Blanton's Single Barrel bourbon from Buffalo Trace Distillery.Audio note: we weren't able to use our standard recording setup for this one, so if we sound a little odd, that's why. Apologies! To skip the tasting, go to 6:53.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Image credit: The New Yorker Magazine=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Apr 21, 2023 • 1h 2min
Redeeming Revelation w/ Scot McKnight
Text us your questions!Do you keep a healthy distance between yourself and the book of Revelation? Have a loved one who believes super weird things about Revelation? If so, you're in good company. Scot McKnight wrote a brilliant book called Revelation for the Rest of Us that turns all of those weird ways of interpreting Revelation on their heads and shows us what Revelation truly is. It turns out that the book of Revelation is a brilliantly subversive book about resisting the evil ways of whatever empire the people of God find themselves living in, whether it's Babylon, Rome, or America. Revelation calls us to give our faithfulness and allegiance to the slaughtered Lamb who has triumphed over the violent and oppressive ways of the empire.Scot is a brilliant New Testament scholar who has become a great friend of the podcast. We're excited to share more of Scot with you.In this episode, we tasted Leopold Bros. Straight Bourbon.To skip the tasting, go to 7:42.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Apr 7, 2023 • 1h 5min
Not Your Typical Easter Podcast
Text us your questions!In this special Easter episode, Kyle and Randy discuss all their questions about resurrection. They cover its significance to them, its coherence, whether it makes any sense to hope for it, apologetic approaches to it, how much it matters, and why Randy finds conversations about it kind of frustrating. Happy Easter!Extra resources (including those mentioned in the episode):N.T. Wright: Surprised by Hope and The Resurrection of the Son of GodSufjan Stevens: Carrie and LowellWe explore similar themes in another episode about afterlife in general: "What Happens When We Die?"For Brian McLaren's take on the importance of the resurrection, see this Patreon extra.For Kyle's take on why it matters, see "Why, Today, I Believe in Resurrection"For this episode's Patreon bonus question, see here.The beverage we tasted in this episode was Coeur de Cuvée Blend #11 from Side Project Brewing.To skip the tasting, jump to 6:28.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Mar 24, 2023 • 1h 13min
Is Hell Real?
Text us your questions!Who will be saved in the end? Does the Bible support eternal conscious torment, annihilationism, or ultimate reconciliation (or all three)? Can a good God condemn a majority of human beings who've ever lived to eternal hell? In this episode we tackle these questions and more, and we find out that Randy and Kyle don't quite agree on this one.In this episode, we tasted both Kinnickinnic Whiskey by Great Lakes Distillery and Heaven's Door Distillery's Straight Bourbon Whiskey.The resources mentioned in this episode are: C.S. Lewis: The Great DivorceRob Bell: Love WinsDavid Bentley Hart: That All Shall Be SavedBrad Jersak: Her Gates Will Never ShutEvent Horizon movie (don't watch it, it's terrible)To skip the tasting, jump to 7:10.You can find the transcript for this episode here.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!