

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 16, 2024 • 16min
No Makeup, No Offer?
HR expert Colleen McCreary joins Kelli Dragovich to discuss a viral post about a VP candidate denied a job for not wearing makeup. They dive into workplace appearance norms, legal perspectives on hiring, navigating interview feedback, and authenticity at work.

Apr 11, 2024 • 50min
Lean Mindset, Business Impact and the New Era of HR: Jeff Diana, former CPO of Calendly
Former CPO of Calendly, Jeff Diana, talks about the importance of driving shareholder value in HR, aligning with business outcomes, and building strong relationships with CEOs. He discusses navigating career choices, HR program cuts, and power dynamics in company leadership.

Apr 9, 2024 • 14min
Pedigree is Overrated. McKinsey is Paying Employees to Quit
McKinsey's unique approach of offering consultants a payout to depart, navigating employee exits, redefining credentials and skills in the job market, practical skills over academic achievement, and changing employment dynamics.

Apr 4, 2024 • 45min
The State of Startups in 2023 and 2024: A Conversation with Peter Walker of Carta
Peter Walker, Head of Insights at Carta, discusses startup compensation trends in 2023, VC challenges in 2024, honesty in HR around equity structures, and advice for evaluating startup offers with an investor mindset.

Apr 2, 2024 • 13min
Remote vs. In-Person
The podcast discusses the ongoing debate between remote and in-person work environments, emphasizing the importance of considering career stage, work-life tradeoffs, and serendipitous encounters. It explores the significance of in-office experiences for networking, understanding career seasons, and the value of work culture in shaping professional growth.

Mar 28, 2024 • 50min
From MIT to HR Leader: A Conversation with Richard Ni, former CPO of Scale AI
Former CPO of Scale AI, Richard Ni, shares his journey from software engineer to HR leader at a Series E AI startup. He discusses the importance of self-reflection, building trust with the CEO, and making tough HR decisions. The episode also covers fostering psychological safety at work and insights on early-stage hiring and CEO involvement in the hiring process.

4 snips
Mar 26, 2024 • 18min
How to Be Layoff-Proof
Learn how to be layoff-proof with tactical advice on network-building for a resilient career. The hosts discuss practical steps to expand your professional network and emphasize the importance of keeping connections warm for future opportunities. Find out how to increase your luck by expanding your surface area of networking.

Mar 21, 2024 • 58min
Building Legendary Teams: Trust, Transition, and Quality with JR Rettig of Pendo
The podcast delves into the unique challenges of recruiting executives, the importance of succession planning, and the advantages of a hybrid recruiting method. It also explores the CEO's role in hiring and maintaining a high bar for talent acquisition. Additionally, the podcast discusses the essence of tech company cultures and the significance of trust and communication during transitions.

Mar 19, 2024 • 17min
The Promotion Problem
Explore the challenges of seeking promotions in corporate environments, focusing on relationship-building and role-excellence. Learn strategies for advancement through genuine connections and self-advocacy. Understand the pitfalls of rapid promotions in high-growth companies and the importance of data-driven decisions. Discover the dynamics of scaling talent and the significance of recognizing early employees for sustainable growth.

Mar 14, 2024 • 54min
The Freedom to Fail and Dispassionate Assessment with A.J. Thomas of X, Google's Moonshot Factory
A.J. Thomas from X, Google's Moonshot Factory, discusses failure, scenario planning, and the relentless pursuit of truth. Embracing failure and dispassionate assessment are key themes. They touch on unique onboarding, creative hiring, and the unrecruiting route. HR Heretics provides insights into cultivating innovation and resilience.