Future Christian

What’s worth keeping—and what needs to go—when it comes to modern evangelicalism? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. talks with author Michelle Van Loon, whose new book Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism’s Non-Essentials explores the story of evangelical faith from its post–World War II roots to today’s crisis of credibility. Drawing from her own journey—from a secular Jewish upbringing to decades inside evangelical churches—Van Loon offers an unflinching yet hopeful look at the movement’s excesses, blind spots, and spiritual gifts worth preserving. Together, Loren and Michelle unpack: The distinction between revival and revivalism—and why chasing emotional “mountaintop” moments misses the point. The long shadow of leaders like James Dobson and Bill Gothard, and how their influence shaped evangelical culture. The roots of authoritarianism and control in religious systems—and what healthy spiritual authority looks like. Why humility and listening matter more than programs or platforms. What it means to “downsize” faith while still holding on to Jesus. Van Loon reminds listeners that faith is not about clinging to institutions but about rediscovering the way of Christ—one marked by honesty, empathy, and hope. 👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for more honest conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church.   Michelle Van Loon’s writing is shaped by her deeply rooted faith in Christ, secular Jewish heritage, spiritual hunger, and storyteller’s sensibilities. She has been a regular contributor to Christianity Today magazine, and has articles at a number of other digital sites.. Her eight books include her newest, Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism's Nonessentials. You can learn more about her work at her website, michellevanloon.com or connect with her at her little corner of Substack, which is called Transforming Words.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: michellevanloon.com  📖 Her Book:: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884626/downsizing/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Joelle Kidd 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller 🎧 Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What unique challenges do women face in ministry leadership—and what gives them hope for the future of the church? In this special roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes a panel of seasoned clergy leaders: Rev. Tabatha Johnson (Disciples of Christ), The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyck (Anglican), Rev. Canon Katherine Morgan (Anglican), and Rev. Canon Martha Tatarnic (Anglican and Future Christian co-host). Together, they share candid stories about their call to ministry, navigating representation and authority, the sacrifices women often make that men may not, and how mentors and allies have helped along the way. From maternity leave struggles to stereotypes about “what a minister should look like,” these leaders open up about both progress and persistent challenges for women in the church today. Listeners will gain insights into: How women discern and embrace a call to ordained ministry. The “stained glass ceiling” and ongoing equity issues in church leadership. The importance of mentors, representation, and visible role models. How congregations respond differently to women clergy across traditions. What gives hope for the next generation of women entering ministry. Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or layperson passionate about equality in the church, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a vision for a more inclusive future.   Rev. Tabatha D. Johnson is a pastor in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).  She has served as a pastor and chaplain for over twenty years. She graduated from the University of Missouri-Kansas City and Central Baptist Theological Seminary and is co-editor and contributor to Still A Mother: Journeys Through Perinatal Bereavement (Judson Press.) a 2017 Gold Medal Winner in the Illumination Book Awards. She is currently the Senior Pastor at Shawnee Community Christian Church where she joyfully serves alongside people who love Jesus and one another. Tabatha’s greatest love, besides her family and her church, are coffee and starting home improvement projects in her home that someday, hopefully, she will finish. Tabatha lives with her spouse, Cory, and their children in the Kansas City Metro. The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyk is Archdeacon of Lincoln Deanery and Rector of Church of the Transfiguration. She was born and raised in St. Catharines and was raised in the Christian Reformed Church. She began attending an Anglican Church in my twenties. Until starting seminary at 40, Van Zandwyk worked in retail, for a number of years as the Manager of a Shoppers Drug Mart. Ordained for 17 years, Van Zandwyk has worked in churches in Oakville, Hamilton and now St. Catharines, being at Transfiguration for 6 years now.  The Reverend Canon Katherine Morgan graduated with a Master of Divinity from Trinity College, University of Toronto. Morgan is ordained in the Diocese of Niagara where she had the privilege of serving in rural, small town and city parishes for 29 years.  Currently Morgan is the rector of Church of the Resurrection in Hamilton. In her free time, she loves to sing, enjoy puzzles, and is the proud parent of an adult son.    Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://shawneecommunity.org/ 🌐 Website:  🎧 Episodes Referenced: Margo Guernsey   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What does ministry look like beyond the walls of traditional institutions? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Father Cathie Caimano—Episcopal priest, writer, coach, and founder of Free Range Priest. For nearly a decade, Caimano has been helping churches and leaders reimagine ministry for the 21st century, blending ancient practices with agile, entrepreneurial models. Caimano shares her own journey from traditional parish priest to “free range” ministry, reflecting on what she learned serving small churches, working alongside Bishop Michael Curry, and navigating the disruption of the COVID era. She makes a bold case for new containers of church—lean, sustainable, and faithful—while still deeply rooted in the gospel. Caimano insists that the church is not dying—the institution is. And in that collapse lies the opportunity to reimagine ministry with freedom, joy, and faithfulness. Key points from the conversation: How spiritual practices can function like a “gym for your soul” Why institutions resist technology and why that must change The difference between innovation within old systems and creating new ones Why small congregations can thrive by embracing sustainability, not size How the church can learn from entrepreneurship, social enterprise, and start-up culture Cathie Caimano, ʻFr. Cathie’, and is an Episcopal priest, ordained for 25 years. Since 2016, She's been a  Free Range Priest - her own ministry/business with a mission to help reimagine ministry in the 21st century. She serves a small congregation in a 'cage free' way, and she writes, coaches, teaches and consults about practical ways of being and doing church in sustainable, faithful, joyful ways. She lives near Charlotte, NC with her wonderful husband and adorable Great Dane. When she's not thinking about God and church, you can find her taking photos of the sunrise, or out running somewhere!   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Website: https://trexo.church/p/start-here 🌐 Website: https://www.freerangepriest.org/about 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chad Brooks 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Steve Cuss 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Matt Syrdal 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bethany Peerbolte   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant        

What does leadership look like when the church is shrinking? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Rev. Dr. Bill Harrison, president of Lutheran Theological Seminary in Saskatoon and author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church. Harrison shares candid insights from his own journey—from growing up in a fundamentalist tradition to leading in ecumenical and academic contexts. He reflects on why complexity is not something to fear, why “do less with less” might be the most faithful strategy today, and how congregations can reclaim a gospel vision rooted in transformation rather than numbers.  Realistic and hopeful, this episode offers practical tools for pastors, leaders, and congregations navigating decline as Harrison reminds that God’s transformation is complex, but the good news is alive and present—even in a shrinking church. In this conversation you’ll hear: Why numerical growth has become an idol in many churches The crushing accumulation of roles and expectations placed on clergy Four dimensions of transformation—intellectual, psychic, moral, and religious—that shape Christian life Why congregations need to clarify identity, mission, and resources instead of trying to be “all things to all people” How gospel vision statements can help churches focus on what really matters The Rev. Dr. William (Bill) Harrison is president of Lutheran Theological Seminary, Saskatoon, and former chair of the Saskatoon Theological Union Common Faculty. Bill teaches systematic and historical theology, and ethics. In addition to his PhD in systematic theology and church history from Boston College, Bill has degrees in English literature (M.A.), theology (B.Th.), and political science (B.A. Hons). Bill is the author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church: Finding New Vision in Unlikely Places; Frequently Asked Questions in Christian Theology; and In Praise of Mixed Religions: The Syncretism Solution in a Multifaith World. Everywhere he goes, Bill takes music with him, listening to a broad variety. At home, he spends as much time as possible walking trails or out in his kayak. Mentioned Resources: 📖 Get his Book: Leadership in a Shrinking Church 📱 Follow: https://www.facebook.com/bill.harrison.359128 🌐 Website: www.lutherantheological.ca  🌐 Website: https://www.facebook.com/LTSSaskatoon/ 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller episode   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share. Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.    Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant      

What does it really mean for a church to be “healthy”? In this episode, Loren sits down with Chad Brooks—United Methodist congregational vitality strategist and author of Is My Church Healthy? Drawing on his years of experience as a church planter, pastor, and denominational leader, Brooks challenges common assumptions about growth and health. He unpacks why stability must come before vitality, how to measure what truly matters, and why small congregations often carry unique strengths that larger ones overlook. With both encouragement and practical tools, Brooks equips pastors, leaders, and laypeople to discern their next faithful step. Whether you lead a large church or a normal-sized one, this conversation will help you reimagine what vitality looks like in today’s context. Key Points: Why size doesn’t determine health—and how small churches can thrive The four stages of congregational life: unstable, stable, vital, and sustainable How to right-size ministries instead of copying “the big church down the street” Why tracking data isn’t impersonal but essential to caring for people The difference between mercy, justice, mission, and evangelism—and why churches must reclaim their distinct call How COVID acted as a “reset button” for many congregations Chad Brooks is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and currently serves on the staff of The Louisiana Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church as the Congregational Vitality Strategist. He lives in central Louisiana with his wife of 20 years Meredith. Chad is a graduate of Louisiana Tech University and Asbury Theological Seminary. Chad grew up in the church as the son of an SBC Pastor and has spent his career working in all aspects of church, from Technical Production Director of churches and a major Seminary, to a pastor of established churches and church plants. He has stewarded the Productive Pastor Community for 20 years and it equally passionate about seeing revival as he is about resourcing Pastors in all aspects of healthy ministry. When not reading and thinking about the Church, he enjoys practicing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and being in the outdoors at his hunting camp.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 Get his Book: Is My Church Healthy? 🌐 Louisiana Conference: https://www.la-umc.org/conferencestaff 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dennis Sanders 🎧 Episodes Referenced: Drew Crowson     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

How do pastors and church leaders navigate ministry when the battles feel relentless? In this episode, Loren talks with Bishop Jeffrey V. Dudley Sr.—retired Air Force chaplain, pastor, and leadership coach. Drawing from his decades of service in the military and the church, Bishop Dudley shares candid reflections on leadership, spiritual practices, and the weight of ministry. He opens up about personal seasons of opposition, the temptation to over-spiritualize crises, and the vital importance of prayer, boundaries, and honest self-awareness. This conversation is a powerful reminder for pastors, leaders, and anyone in ministry that resilience is possible, that honesty matters, and that our hope remains anchored in Jesus. Listeners will hear: Why “battles are inevitable, and preparation must be intentional” How to discern between authenticity and “bleeding on the people” The danger of over-spiritualizing crises—and how leaders can own responsibility Bishop Dudley’s vulnerable reflections on suicidal ideation and the hope that carried him through Why he insists, “You are not what you feel”   Dr. Geoffrey V. Dudley, Sr. is a retired Air Force Chaplain (Lt. Colonel), Bishop, author, and leadership coach. A lifelong minister and visionary leader, he holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership from Regent University, a Doctor of Ministry from Virginia Union University, a Master of Divinity from Virginia Union, a Master of Human Relations from the University of Oklahoma, and a Bachelor of Arts in Communication, Drama & Speech from UNC Greensboro. He also holds a Post-Master Education Specialist degree from the University of Memphis. Dr. Dudley is the founding pastor of New Life in Christ Church (O'Fallon, IL), one of the fastest-growing churches in the St. Louis metro area, and the CEO of New Life Community Development Corporation, which leads major community initiatives including a $20M affordable housing project. A John Maxwell Associate Trainer and author of six books—including Leading Through Storms—he also mentors leaders through iLeadAcademy.net and Changing Lives Ministries. He and his wife Glenda have two adult children engaged in ministry and nonprofit leadership.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 His Book: https://ivpress.com/leading-through-storms 🌐 His church website: https://www.nlicic.org   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What does it mean to lead the church toward vitality in a time of disruption, decline, and shifting cultural landscapes? In this episode, Loren sits down with Dr. F. Douglas Powe Jr., President of Phillips Theological Seminary.  Recorded live at the General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), this conversation explores how seminaries and congregations alike can foster authentic belonging, support diverse pathways into ministry, and reimagine theological education for the future. Doug reflects on his first six months at Phillips, the seminary’s bold tuition initiative, and the vision behind Bedford House—a new space designed to embody belonging for marginalized and underrepresented communities. He also shares his hopes for how churches can model unity and reconciliation in a divided world. Topics include: Why belonging must come before believing for new generations How Bedford House embodies Phillips Seminary’s commitment to inclusion The challenges and opportunities of rural and small-church ministry Alternative pathways into ministry beyond the traditional M.Div. Why theological education must adapt without losing its core formation The role of social justice engagement in calling new leaders Dr. Powe’s hopes for the church in an age of disruption and division   Rev. F. Douglas Powe Jr., PhD is President of Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, Okla., where he leads the seminary in its work toward deep learning, faithful leadership and global impact. An ordained elder in The United Methodist Church, Dr. Powe is a respected scholar, teacher, and author whose work explores congregational vitality, urban ministry, and innovative approaches to evangelism. Before leading Phillips, he served as Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and James C. Logan Professor of Evangelism at Wesley Theological Seminary. His books include Sustaining While Disrupting, The Adept Church, and Transforming Evangelism. A graduate of Ohio Wesleyan University, Emory University’s Candler School of Theology, and Emory’s Graduate Division of Religion, Dr. Powe is widely sought after for his insights on faith, leadership, and the changing ministry environment.   Mentioned Resources: 📖 Book: https://www.cokesbury.com/The-Adept-Church?vsl=2487 📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506479200/Sustaining-While-Disrupting 🌐 Phillps Seminary: https://ptstulsa.edu/ 🎧 Past Episode with Doug Powe: Sustaining While Disrupting 🎧 Past Episode with Doug Powe: The Adept Church     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What does it mean to build safer, healthier churches in a world where abuse and misuse of power have left deep scars? In this conversation, Loren talks with Dr. Lisa Compton and Taylor Patterson, co-editors of Skills for Safeguarding: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church. Drawing on decades of counseling and trauma work, they explore how churches can recognize unhealthy dynamics, respond with integrity, and create cultures where both leaders and congregants can flourish. This is a vital conversation for pastors, lay leaders, and anyone who cares about the long-term health and witness of the church. Topics include: Why integrity, not charisma, is essential for church leadership The difference between protecting a church’s brand and serving the people of God The “tripod of relational safety”: safe self, safe community, and safe ministry Distinguishing between guilt and shame, and how each shapes spiritual formation Why forgiveness does not always mean reconciliation Practical first steps churches can take toward safeguarding   Taylor Patterson is an instructor in the counseling department at Regent University. She worked for several years as a mental health counselor at a nonprofit agency serving survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, and human trafficking and now sees clients in private practice, specializing in adult with a history of childhood trauma. She served as co-editor for "Safeguarding Skills: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church,” a textbook for seminaries, parachurch ministries, and local churches, and has published in peer-reviewed journals. Taylor’s research interests include interpersonal violence, compassion fatigue prevention and treatment, and trauma-informed counselor education and supervision.   Dr. Lisa Compton is an Associate Professor and Director of the Ph.D. in Counselor Education program at Regent University. With over 29 years of experience in the mental health field, she is a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW), certified trauma treatment specialist (CTTS), and compassion fatigue educator (CFE). Dr. Compton has been a conference keynote speaker, presented internationally on trauma-related topics, and has been featured on CBN News discussing domestic violence and sexual trauma. She is the co-author of Preparing for Trauma Work in Clinical Mental Health and Safeguarding Skills: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church. Her research focuses on secondary trauma and trauma pedagogy with numerous published articles, including "Absorption Vulnerability" in Traumatology (2024).   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Dennis instagram: @adventcelina 📖 Their book: https://www.ivpress.com/skills-for-safeguarding 🌐 Lisa's Website: https://drlisacompton.com/ 🌐 Jeff Gill's Substack: https://substack.com/@knapsack 🎧 Mike Cosper on the Dangers of Ideology in Church 🎧 May Young on Biblical Lament       Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

Recorded live from the 2025 General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Memphis, TN, Loren is joined once again by pastor and podcaster Dennis Sanders for a candid conversation about the state and future of the denomination. They reflect on what’s changed since past gatherings, the unique role and challenges of General Assembly in a time of declining attendance, and the ongoing tension between institutional loyalty and openness to diverse theological voices. From the missed opportunity of a revival resolution to the practical realities of costs, exhibitor layouts, and programming balance, Loren and Dennis bring both deep care and honest critique.  The conversation also moves beyond denominational borders—raising questions relevant to mainline and evangelical contexts alike: How should denominations engage in political advocacy when their cultural influence has waned? What would it take to be truly inclusive of conservative, moderate, and progressive voices? Where might revival come from—and how will we know it when we see it?   Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota.  A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible.  Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats.   Mentioned Resources: 🎧 Last GA Episode with Dennis: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-fgenv-1476ff7 📱 Dennis instagram: @adventcelina 📖 Mixed Ecology Book: https://www.churchpublishing.org/embracingthemixedecology 🌐 Ben Crosby's Substack: https://substack.com/@bencrosby 🌐 Jeff Gill's Substack: https://substack.com/@knapsack 🎧 Dennis Sanders: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-q2e35-134587d 🎧 Church and Main Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/church-and-main/id1660817140     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What does it take to start a brand-new church in one of the fastest-growing cities in the U.S.? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Drew Crowson, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of Dallas planting a church in Celina, Texas—a city where 800 new residents arrive every month and there’s never been an Episcopal congregation. Drew shares his journey from growing up Baptist in East Texas, to ministry roles in Germany, the Middle East, and Alabama, to finding a spiritual home in the Anglican tradition. He explains why he believes the parish model is the future of the church, how a preschool can be a vital ministry and funding source, and the discipline it takes to keep showing up—even when no one else does. Whether you’re in church leadership, thinking about starting something new, or just curious about what it takes to plant a church in today’s cultural climate, this conversation is both honest and inspiring. They discuss: Why liturgy and the Book of Common Prayer resonate with non-liturgical Christians How to plant a church in a mainline denomination with little recent church-planting history Balancing entrepreneurial hustle with slow, patient spiritual formation The importance of pastoral boundaries for family health Building a prayer team and cultivating resilience in ministry   Drew Crowson is a church planter in the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas. Before stepping into church planting, he served in young adult and youth ministry in diverse contexts—from Dallas to Düsseldorf, Germany, an oil compound in the Middle East, and Auburn, Alabama. Deeply shaped by the early 2000s emergent church movement, his journey ultimately led him deeper into Jesus and into the Anglican tradition. Drew is married to an incredible woman, and together they are raising three young children who daily remind them of their ongoing need for grace.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Celina instagram: @adventcelina 🌐 Drew's Substack: https://substack.com/@andrewcrowson 🌐 WashPark UMC: https://www.washparkumc.org   Other Church planting episodes: 🎧 Cameron Trimble: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8siub-10d0a4d 🎧 Paula Stone Williams: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-pgxda-f59f19 🎧 Tim Morey: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-25zwi-1059d6d 🎧 Nick Warnes: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ketw5-1172f9e 🎧 Jonah Overton: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-y28bz-13457f4 🎧 Even More: https://www.podbean.com/ep/pb-wzbs7-173f5fc   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant