

Future Christian
Resonate Media
At the Future Christian Podcast, we talk to pastors, authors, and other faith leaders for helpful advice and practical wisdom to help you lead your church into the future.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Dec 2, 2025 • 1h 5min
Reaching Gen Z: Mike Orr on Belonging, Doubt, and the Future of Faith
What does youth ministry look like when the world — and young people — are changing faster than ever?
In this in-person episode recorded at Broomfield United Methodist Church, host Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with longtime student ministries director Mike Orr to talk about faith formation, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, belonging, spiritual maturity, and what it really means to cultivate community in a post-Christian culture.
With warmth, honesty, and decades of ministry experience, Mike reflects on:
Highlights from the Conversation
His early spiritual experiences and how actual transformation — not willpower — shaped his faith.
The surprising power of belonging-first ministry for Gen Z & Gen Alpha.
Why emotionally coercive youth ministry of the 90s left deep marks — and how churches can do better.
How to hold space for students with radically different political or cultural views.
Why youth ministry should never be about indoctrination, but about helping young people own and explore their faith.
How to handle deconstruction as a natural part of spiritual growth.
The crisis facing young men — and how to model a healthier version of Christian masculinity.
Why the future of church isn't about producing spiritual “products,” but creating a context where real faith can flourish.
The essential role parents play in forming faith, whether they realize it or not.
His hope for Christianity: “Keep adding leaves to the table. There’s room for everyone.”
This is a rich, grounded conversation about what actually works in youth ministry today — and what kind of church the next generation is longing for.
Mike Orr has been a youth worker since the late 1990's, serving churches in Pennsylvania, Connecticut, California, and Colorado. He earned his MDiv from Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. For over 10 years he has been the Director of Student Ministries at Broomfield United Methodist Church, located in the northern suburbs of Denver, CO. He lives with his wife and 3 dogs in Denver, CO. He has written zero books.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Mike's Church: Broomfield UMC
🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root
🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Quiet Revival
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Keywords / SEO Tags
youth ministry, Gen Z faith, Gen Alpha spirituality, belonging in church, student ministries, Mike Orr Broomfield UMC, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr, deconstruction and faith, progressive youth ministry, family faith formation, modern youth ministry challenges, Charlie Kirk Christianity, masculinity and church, spiritual formation for teens, church and political identity, Christian nationalism youth, Wesleyan sanctification, teen mental health church

Nov 18, 2025 • 1h 7min
Navigating Change: Archbishop Shane Parker on the Future of the Anglican Church
How can a historic church navigate a rapidly changing world without losing its soul?
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic speaks with Archbishop Shane Parker, the newly elected Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada, about leading through transition, discernment, and hope for the church’s future.
Archbishop Parker shares the story of his unexpected election, reflecting on themes of surrender, vocation, and guiding change rather than being changed by circumstance. Together, they explore what it means to lead faithfully in a post-Christian context—one where the church no longer holds cultural prominence but still holds deep spiritual purpose.
They discuss:
The evolving role of Christianity in Canadian society
What it means to be “first among equals” in Anglican leadership
The spiritual practice of personal prayer and community intercession
Why some leaders are called to stay instead of move on
The challenge of guiding change before it overtakes the church
How to reimagine church structures for relevance and sustainability
The importance of friendship, pastoral care, and gathered community in thriving congregations
His hope that the future of Christianity will embody the courage, compassion, and justice of Christ
Parker offers both realism and hope: that the Anglican Church can rediscover its vitality by focusing on community, worship, and service — not nostalgia or institutional weight.
Archbishop Shane Parker was elected the 15th Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada on June 26, 2025, and installed on June 29, 2025, at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, Ontario. Prior to being elected Primate, he had served as the Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of Ottawa since 2020. Before that, he was dean of the Diocese of Ottawa and rector of Christ Church Cathedral for two decades. Born to Irish parents in Edmonton, Alberta, he grew up in western Canada. He worked as a labourer for several years before embarking on undergraduate and graduate studies in sociology at Carleton University. After working as a professional sociologist, he studied theology at Saint Paul University. He was ordained as a priest in 1987 in the Diocese of Ottawa, later serving as the diocesan archdeacon. Parker has an honorary doctorate from Saint Paul University, where he has served as a part-time professor of pastoral ministry and chairs its Anglican Studies Advisory Committee. A collection of his pastoral essays was published by Novalis in a book called Answering the Big Questions. He is a recipient of the Interfaith Ottawa Award, for devoted service to promoting interfaith dialogue and cooperation. Parker is married to Katherine Shadbolt, a lawyer specializing in family law and mediation. He has three adult children and three grandchildren. He is handy, enjoys physical work and is most comfortable in natural places.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 The Anglican Church of Canada: https://www.anglican.ca/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Nov 11, 2025 • 52min
Angela Williams Gorrell on What to do When You Don’t Know What to Do
What do you do when life falls apart—and you have no idea what to do next?
In this heartfelt episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell, theologian, researcher, and author of Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do and Always On: The Gravity of Joy. Drawing from her own experience of profound grief and transformation, Angela shares how surrender, acceptance, and spiritual practices like meditation can open us to God’s presence—even in silence.
Together, they explore:
The difference between grasping for control and living in surrender
How to accept reality as it is without losing hope
Why prayer isn’t preparation for action—it is action
Learning from feelings as information, not final truth
What it means to trust that nothing is wasted in God’s economy
How pastors and church leaders can find peace and purpose amid decline or loss
Why healing and joy are still possible, even after tragedy
Whether you’re navigating personal loss or leading through uncertainty in ministry, this conversation offers honesty, theological depth, and hard-won wisdom for finding grace when life doesn’t go according to plan.
Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell is a speaker, author, and consultant. She has taught at several schools including Yale and Baylor University. Media sources such as the New York Times, NPR, and the Washington Post have highlighted her research. Dr. Angela is the author of always on, The Gravity of Joy, and a new book, Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do. She’d love to connect with you on Facebook or Instagram @angelagorrell
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Her website: https://www.angelagorrell.com/
📱 Her socials: @angelagorrell
📖 Her book: Braving Difficult Decisions
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Heather Thompson Day
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Keywords / SEO Tags
Angela Williams Gorrell, Braving Difficult Decisions, Always On The Gravity of Joy, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., Christian leadership, spiritual direction, surrender to God, prayer and healing, faith through suffering, meditation and Christian spirituality, grief and resilience, trauma and faith, pastoral care, nothing wasted in God’s economy, mainline church leadership, church decline and hope, progressive Christian spirituality

Nov 4, 2025 • 1h 3min
Reimagining the Disciples: Faith, Theology, and the Future of a Movement
What does it mean to be the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in a world where shared language about faith, salvation, and community seems to be slipping away?
In this roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic is joined by Loren Richmond Jr., Dennis Sanders, and David Emery for a deep conversation on the past, present, and future of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Together they wrestle with what “No Creed but Christ” means today—and how this historic movement can renew its theological identity in a rapidly changing culture.
This conversation explores:
Why “No creed but Christ” was once revolutionary—and what it might mean now
How Disciples’ emphasis on inclusion and open communion can recover deeper theological grounding
The tension between progressive activism and theological clarity
The role of preaching, formation, and leadership in shaping discipleship
Why local churches—and not denominational structures—are key to renewal
Signs of hope and new life emerging in Disciples congregations across North America
If you’ve ever wondered how denominations can stay rooted in the Gospel while adapting to modern realities, this episode offers an honest, hopeful look at faithful innovation and renewal in the mainline church.
Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible. Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats.
David Emery is the Lead Pastor of Harvard Avenue Christian Church in Tulsa, OK. David is a passionate preacher, compassionate pastor, and adept leader whose understanding of the Gospel and vision for the church help our congregation fulfill our mission to live and love like Jesus. David has a reputation for growing churches, reaching new people, and transforming lives in every church he has served throughout his ministry, which includes congregations in Arkansas, Texas, and Kentucky. He holds a Master’s of Divinity from Vanderbilt. If you were to ask David what his favorite scripture passage is, he would tell you: “Whatever I’m preaching on this week!” An avid runner and multiple-marathoner, when David isn’t on the trail or in the pulpit, he enjoys spending time with his wife, Teresa, and their children and grandchildren.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Dennis' Church: https://fccsaintpaul.org/
🌐 David's Church: https://hacctulsa.org/
📖 Book Referenced: Thriving Church
🎧 Dennis Sanders Podcast: Church and Main
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Oct 28, 2025 • 1h 11min
Embracing the Edges of Faith with Brian Pearson
What happens when the church you’ve loved becomes too small for the faith you’ve grown into?
Former Anglican priest Brian E. Pearson joins host Martha Tatarnic on the Future Christian Podcast to discuss his book Talking to the Trees: A Journey Into Soul and his evolving spirituality after nearly forty years in ordained ministry.
In this deeply honest conversation, Brian reflects on his transition from parish life to life on the edges—where faith, doubt, nature, and imagination meet. Together, he and Martha explore what it means to live faith large rather than small, to follow curiosity and courage beyond institutional boundaries, and to discover the sacred in unexpected places.
They talk about:
Why the edges of faith are often where renewal begins
The cost and gift of leaving the institutional church
How nature, ritual, and imagination can nurture a living spirituality
Storytelling as a pathway to truth and healing
Courage, curiosity, and the call to live with openness instead of fear
Pearson’s journey invites pastors, seekers, and skeptics alike to consider: What if leaving the church isn’t an ending, but another way of following the Spirit into new life?
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: https://www.brianepearson.ca/
📖 His Book: Talking to Trees
🎧 His Podcast: The Mystic Cave
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Oct 21, 2025 • 48min
Aligning Church Life with the Gospel: Sheryl Johnson on Stewardship, Justice, and Everyday Faith
What does it look like for a church’s budget, bylaws, and building to reflect the values of justice and faith?
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Sheryl Johnson, theologian, ethicist, and author of Serving Money, Serving God: Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life (Fortress Press, 2023). Together they explore how churches can move beyond good intentions to embody justice through everyday practices—especially around finance, fundraising, stewardship, and administration.
They discuss:
Why church administration is theological, not just logistical
How job postings and pay scales reveal a congregation’s real values
The pitfalls of donor-centered fundraising and better alternatives
Honest communication about money, failure, and hope
How churches can make ethical decisions about property and buildings
What it means to see the local church as a foretaste of God’s reign
Sheryl challenges pastors and leaders to re-imagine what “faithful stewardship” truly means in today’s world—where economic justice, transparency, and collaboration are essential for credible ministry.
Sheryl Johnson (she/her) is a settler on Ohlone land and was born in Treaty 1 Territory in what is colonially known as Winnipeg, Canada. She began teaching at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in the fall of 2020, as she was defending her PhD in Theology and Ethics at Graduate Theological Union. Her dissertation focused on the intersections of social justice (racial, economic, gender, etc) and ecclesial practices (specifically stewardship, finance, and polity). A book based on her dissertation, Serving Money, Serving God: Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life, was published by Fortress Press in 2023. Sheryl is an ordained minister in the United Church of Canada, with dual standing in the United Church of Christ. Sheryl has served several congregations, campus ministries, ecumenical advocacy organizations (especially KAIROS: Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives and the Student Christian Movement/World Student Christian Federation), and global church partners (specifically the National Council of Churches of the Philippines and People's Action Forum in Zambia), in addition to her academic work. She completed her M.Div and MPS degrees at Emmanuel College, University of Toronto and also completed a Certificate of Specialization in Theology and Ecology at the University of St. Michael's College during her theological studies. Sheryl is passionate about embodied, participatory, and critical pedagogies and supporting students to make connections between justice commitments and vocational practices.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: https://www.sheryljohnsonphd.com/
📖 Her Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506482965/Serving-Money-Serving-God
📖 Her Next Book: The Business of God
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Oct 14, 2025 • 47min
Michelle Van Loon on Downsizing Faith to What Matters Most
What’s worth keeping—and what needs to go—when it comes to modern evangelicalism?
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. talks with author Michelle Van Loon, whose new book Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism’s Non-Essentials explores the story of evangelical faith from its post–World War II roots to today’s crisis of credibility.
Drawing from her own journey—from a secular Jewish upbringing to decades inside evangelical churches—Van Loon offers an unflinching yet hopeful look at the movement’s excesses, blind spots, and spiritual gifts worth preserving.
Together, Loren and Michelle unpack:
The distinction between revival and revivalism—and why chasing emotional “mountaintop” moments misses the point.
The long shadow of leaders like James Dobson and Bill Gothard, and how their influence shaped evangelical culture.
The roots of authoritarianism and control in religious systems—and what healthy spiritual authority looks like.
Why humility and listening matter more than programs or platforms.
What it means to “downsize” faith while still holding on to Jesus.
Van Loon reminds listeners that faith is not about clinging to institutions but about rediscovering the way of Christ—one marked by honesty, empathy, and hope.
👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for more honest conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church.
Michelle Van Loon’s writing is shaped by her deeply rooted faith in Christ, secular Jewish heritage, spiritual hunger, and storyteller’s sensibilities. She has been a regular contributor to Christianity Today magazine, and has articles at a number of other digital sites.. Her eight books include her newest, Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism's Nonessentials. You can learn more about her work at her website, michellevanloon.com or connect with her at her little corner of Substack, which is called Transforming Words.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: michellevanloon.com
📖 Her Book:: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884626/downsizing/
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Joelle Kidd
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller
🎧 Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Oct 7, 2025 • 1h 16min
Breaking Barriers: Women in Ministry Leadership Roundtable
What unique challenges do women face in ministry leadership—and what gives them hope for the future of the church?
In this special roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes a panel of seasoned clergy leaders: Rev. Tabatha Johnson (Disciples of Christ), The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyck (Anglican), Rev. Canon Katherine Morgan (Anglican), and Rev. Canon Martha Tatarnic (Anglican and Future Christian co-host).
Together, they share candid stories about their call to ministry, navigating representation and authority, the sacrifices women often make that men may not, and how mentors and allies have helped along the way. From maternity leave struggles to stereotypes about “what a minister should look like,” these leaders open up about both progress and persistent challenges for women in the church today.
Listeners will gain insights into:
How women discern and embrace a call to ordained ministry.
The “stained glass ceiling” and ongoing equity issues in church leadership.
The importance of mentors, representation, and visible role models.
How congregations respond differently to women clergy across traditions.
What gives hope for the next generation of women entering ministry.
Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or layperson passionate about equality in the church, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a vision for a more inclusive future.
Rev. Tabatha D. Johnson is a pastor in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). She has served as a pastor and chaplain for over twenty years. She graduated from the University of Missouri-Kansas City and Central Baptist Theological Seminary and is co-editor and contributor to Still A Mother: Journeys Through Perinatal Bereavement (Judson Press.) a 2017 Gold Medal Winner in the Illumination Book Awards. She is currently the Senior Pastor at Shawnee Community Christian Church where she joyfully serves alongside people who love Jesus and one another. Tabatha’s greatest love, besides her family and her church, are coffee and starting home improvement projects in her home that someday, hopefully, she will finish. Tabatha lives with her spouse, Cory, and their children in the Kansas City Metro.
The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyk is Archdeacon of Lincoln Deanery and Rector of Church of the Transfiguration. She was born and raised in St. Catharines and was raised in the Christian Reformed Church. She began attending an Anglican Church in my twenties. Until starting seminary at 40, Van Zandwyk worked in retail, for a number of years as the Manager of a Shoppers Drug Mart. Ordained for 17 years, Van Zandwyk has worked in churches in Oakville, Hamilton and now St. Catharines, being at Transfiguration for 6 years now.
The Reverend Canon Katherine Morgan graduated with a Master of Divinity from Trinity College, University of Toronto. Morgan is ordained in the Diocese of Niagara where she had the privilege of serving in rural, small town and city parishes for 29 years. Currently Morgan is the rector of Church of the Resurrection in Hamilton. In her free time, she loves to sing, enjoy puzzles, and is the proud parent of an adult son.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: https://shawneecommunity.org/
🌐 Website:
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Margo Guernsey
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Sep 30, 2025 • 1h 4min
From Institution to Innovation: Cathie Caimano on the Future of Church
What does ministry look like beyond the walls of traditional institutions? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Father Cathie Caimano—Episcopal priest, writer, coach, and founder of Free Range Priest. For nearly a decade, Caimano has been helping churches and leaders reimagine ministry for the 21st century, blending ancient practices with agile, entrepreneurial models. Caimano shares her own journey from traditional parish priest to “free range” ministry, reflecting on what she learned serving small churches, working alongside Bishop Michael Curry, and navigating the disruption of the COVID era. She makes a bold case for new containers of church—lean, sustainable, and faithful—while still deeply rooted in the gospel. Caimano insists that the church is not dying—the institution is. And in that collapse lies the opportunity to reimagine ministry with freedom, joy, and faithfulness.
Key points from the conversation:
How spiritual practices can function like a “gym for your soul”
Why institutions resist technology and why that must change
The difference between innovation within old systems and creating new ones
Why small congregations can thrive by embracing sustainability, not size
How the church can learn from entrepreneurship, social enterprise, and start-up culture
Cathie Caimano, ʻFr. Cathie’, and is an Episcopal priest, ordained for 25 years. Since 2016, She's been a Free Range Priest - her own ministry/business with a mission to help reimagine ministry in the 21st century. She serves a small congregation in a 'cage free' way, and she writes, coaches, teaches and consults about practical ways of being and doing church in sustainable, faithful, joyful ways. She lives near Charlotte, NC with her wonderful husband and adorable Great Dane. When she's not thinking about God and church, you can find her taking photos of the sunrise, or out running somewhere!
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: https://trexo.church/p/start-here
🌐 Website: https://www.freerangepriest.org/about
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chad Brooks
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Steve Cuss
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Matt Syrdal
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bethany Peerbolte
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Sep 23, 2025 • 1h 12min
Do Less with Less: Bill Harrison on Leadership Lessons for a Shrinking Church
What does leadership look like when the church is shrinking? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Rev. Dr. Bill Harrison, president of Lutheran Theological Seminary in Saskatoon and author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church. Harrison shares candid insights from his own journey—from growing up in a fundamentalist tradition to leading in ecumenical and academic contexts. He reflects on why complexity is not something to fear, why “do less with less” might be the most faithful strategy today, and how congregations can reclaim a gospel vision rooted in transformation rather than numbers. Realistic and hopeful, this episode offers practical tools for pastors, leaders, and congregations navigating decline as Harrison reminds that God’s transformation is complex, but the good news is alive and present—even in a shrinking church.
In this conversation you’ll hear:
Why numerical growth has become an idol in many churches
The crushing accumulation of roles and expectations placed on clergy
Four dimensions of transformation—intellectual, psychic, moral, and religious—that shape Christian life
Why congregations need to clarify identity, mission, and resources instead of trying to be “all things to all people”
How gospel vision statements can help churches focus on what really matters
The Rev. Dr. William (Bill) Harrison is president of Lutheran Theological Seminary, Saskatoon, and former chair of the Saskatoon Theological Union Common Faculty. Bill teaches systematic and historical theology, and ethics. In addition to his PhD in systematic theology and church history from Boston College, Bill has degrees in English literature (M.A.), theology (B.Th.), and political science (B.A. Hons). Bill is the author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church: Finding New Vision in Unlikely Places; Frequently Asked Questions in Christian Theology; and In Praise of Mixed Religions: The Syncretism Solution in a Multifaith World. Everywhere he goes, Bill takes music with him, listening to a broad variety. At home, he spends as much time as possible walking trails or out in his kayak.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Get his Book: Leadership in a Shrinking Church
📱 Follow: https://www.facebook.com/bill.harrison.359128
🌐 Website: www.lutherantheological.ca
🌐 Website: https://www.facebook.com/LTSSaskatoon/
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller episode
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant


