Midrats

Show LinksThe Congress, the Golden Fleet, and the Shipbuilding Industrial Base in 2026SummaryIn this episode of Midrats, Sal and Mark engage with Eric Labs, a senior analyst at the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), to discuss the complexities of shipbuilding costs, the role of the CBO in providing independent estimates, and the challenges faced by the U.S. Navy in maintaining and expanding its fleet. Eric shares insights on the differences between CBO and Navy cost estimates, the impact of maintenance on overall ship costs, and the importance of a skilled labor force in shipbuilding. The conversation also touches on the historical context of shipbuilding budgets, congressional appropriations, and the future of naval forces in the face of evolving defense needs.Dr. Eric Labs is Senior Analyst for Naval Forces and Weapons at the Congressional Budget Office in Washington, D.C. He specializes in issues related to the procurement, budgeting, and sizing of the forces for the Department of the Navy. He received his doctorate in political science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and graduated from Tufts University, summa cum laude, in 1988. He has worked for the Institute for Foreign Policy Analysis in Cambridge, Massachusetts and, from 1994 to 1995, as a Visiting Scholar at the Center for International Security Studies at the University of Maryland. Dr. Labs has been with the Congressional Budget Office since 1995. Chapters00:00: Introduction to the CBO and Eric Labs03:01: Understanding the Role of the CBO06:01: Cost Estimation Approaches in Shipbuilding08:54: Historical Context of CBO Estimates vs Navy Estimates12:04: Challenges in Shipbuilding Cost Estimates15:09: The Impact of Maintenance on Ship Costs18:00: Congressional Budgeting and Shipbuilding Appropriations20:48: Labor Force Challenges in Shipbuilding23:58: Future of the U.S. Navy Fleet and Shipbuilding27:05: Conclusion and Future Considerations

They dig into the newly released National Defense Strategy and what its China focus means for U.S. military policy. European burden sharing, NATO readiness, and Canada’s political ties to China get sharp attention. Logistics, industrial mobilization, and naval force design debates drive much of the conversation.

Dr. Elizabeth Buchanan, Arctic geopolitics expert and former Royal Australian Navy Head of Research. She unpacks why Greenland keeps grabbing attention. They cover historic US bids for Greenland, treaty and NATO implications, Greenlandic independence paths, and how geography links Arctic security to Indo‑Pacific politics. Practical outcomes and financing options for sovereignty are also debated.

SummaryIn this conversation, the hosts and Palantir’s Head of Defense Mike Gallagher and Head of Shipbuilding and Naval Programs Matt Babin discuss the integration of AI and advanced manufacturing techniques in shipbuilding, particularly focusing on the role of Palantir’s ShipOS in transforming shipyard operations. They explore the generational gap in expertise within the industry, the importance of optimizing workforce efficiency, and the collaboration between NAVSEA and the Maritime Industrial Base Program. The discussion also touches on legislative support needed for modern shipbuilding and the challenges faced in submarine maintenance and production.ShowlinksU.S. Navy Partners with Palantir to Modernize Shipbuilding Supply Chain and Accelerate ShipbuildingThe Maritime Industrial Base ProgramHow big is the Columbia SSBN?TakeawaysAI and software can enhance traditional shipbuilding processes.ShipOS integrates various aspects of shipyard operations.Bridging the generational gap is crucial for shipbuilding.Workforce efficiency can be optimized through better planning.Legislative support is needed for consistent funding in shipbuilding.Software tools can help decision-makers understand costs better.The shipbuilding industry must attract younger talent.Chapters00:00: The Future of Shipbuilding and AI Integration03:55: Transforming Shipyard Operations with ShipOS10:31: Bridging Generational Gaps in Shipbuilding Expertise12:00: Optimizing Workforce Efficiency in Shipyards18:24: Advanced Manufacturing Techniques in Shipbuilding20:48: Leveraging Commercial Technology for Naval Advantage25:51: Collaboration Between NAVSEA and the Maritime Industrial Base Program33:42: Legislative Support for Modern Shipbuilding44:32: Addressing Challenges in Submarine Maintenance and Production

The recent military operation in Venezuela to capture Nicolás Maduro is scrutinized for its execution and implications. Discussions highlight the potential for Venezuela's economic recovery, emphasizing the necessity for good governance. The conversation touches on China's growing influence in Latin America and the effectiveness of international organizations like the UN. The raid sends strong signals to adversaries while raising questions about the future stability of Venezuela and its governance. Key insights reveal the operation's planning success and the unmatched capabilities of the U.S. military.

History isn’t just about the past; it’s a guide for today! On this episode, we unravel the myths surrounding Pearl Harbor and what they teach us about current global tensions with returning guest, John Keuhn.Dr. John T. Kuehn is Professor of Military History at the Army Command and General Staff College. He served in the US Navy as a naval flight officer flying in EP-3s and ES-3s, retiring in 2004. He has authored or co-authored seven books and was awarded a Vandevort Prize from the Society for Military History in 2023 for his article “Zumwalt, Holloway, and the Soviet Navy Threat Leadership in a Time of Strategic, Social, and Cultural Change.”His latest book from is Strategy in Crisis (Naval Institute, 2023).SummaryIn this episode, Sal, Mark and guest John Kuehn discuss the historical significance of the Pearl Harbor attack, exploring its lessons for modern military strategy and the importance of public support in warfare. They analyze the complexities of the attack, the role of logistics in sustaining naval forces, and the geopolitical implications of sea lines of communication. The conversation also touches on the current state of the U.S. Navy and the strategic calculations of China in the context of potential conflict over Taiwan.Chapters00:00: Introduction and Context of Pearl Harbor04:22: Understanding the Surprise Attack10:41: Lessons from Pearl Harbor for Modern Warfare17:27: The Role of Public Support in War25:12: The Importance of Selling Naval Power31:08: Logistics and Sustaining Naval Forces39:42: Geopolitical Implications of Sea Lines of Communication46:00: China’s Strategic Calculations and Modern Warfare56:40: Conclusion and Future Considerations

One of our guests on Episode 3 of Midrats was Bryan McGrath, CDR, USN (Ret.). Over the years he’s returned often, and has even graced us with the pleasure of a few guest posts here.As he’s let people know for years, he was going to retire for good at 60. True to his word, he hung it up a few weeks ago.Earlier this year before he got too focused on his figs and vines, I asked Bryan to come on for a broad-ranging conversation.What a great hour.A retired Naval Officer, Bryan spent 21 years on active duty including a tour in command of USS BULKELEY (DDG 84), a guided-missile destroyer homeported in Norfolk, Virginia. In command, he received the “Admiral Elmo Zumwalt Award for Inspirational Leadership” from the Surface Navy Association and his ship earned the USS ARIZONA Memorial Trophy signifying its selection as the Fleet’s most combat-ready warship. His final duties ashore included serving as Team Lead and Primary Author of the US Navy’s 2007 Maritime Strategy “A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower”.Bryan was formerly the Deputy Director of the Hudson Institute Center for American Seapower. In this capacity, he helped develop the Surface Navy’s “Distributed Lethality” concept and the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments’ 2017 Navy Alternate Fleet Architecture Study.Bryan earned a BA in History from the University of Virginia in 1987, and an MA in Political Science (Congressional Studies) from The Catholic University of America. He is a graduate of the Naval War College.He retired again in November 2025 after 13 years in defense consulting.Show LinksThe End of the Road, Bryan McGrathIn Praise of the Military-Industrial Complex, Bryan McGrathSummaryIn this episode of Midrats, hosts Sal and Mark welcome back Bryan McGrath to discuss his reflections on retirement, the changes in the naval environment over the years, and the importance of relationships in naval policy. They delve into the challenges facing shipbuilding and naval strategy, the need for diverse naval capabilities, and the influence of Congress on naval development. The conversation also touches on personnel and leadership in the Navy, learning from past naval conflicts, and the impact of historical events on naval leadership. Bryan shares insights on future directions for naval operations, praises recent naval performance, and emphasizes the role of technology in naval warfare. The episode concludes with a discussion on collaboration between industry and military and Bryan’s final thoughts on future advocacy in the naval sphere.Chapters00:00: Introduction and Guest Background04:46: Reflections on Retirement and Career Path07:35: Changes in Naval Environment Over the Years11:17: The Importance of Relationships in Naval Policy14:47: Challenges in Shipbuilding and Naval Strategy18:03: The Need for Diverse Naval Capabilities21:25: Congressional Influence on Naval Development24:40: Personnel and Leadership in the Navy28:14: Learning from Past Naval Conflicts32:45: The Impact of Historical Events on Naval Leadership36:08: Future Directions for Naval Operations39:00: Praise for Naval Performance in Recent Operations43:23: The Role of Technology in Naval Warfare46:57: Collaboration Between Industry and Military50:48: Final Thoughts and Future Advocacy

SummaryIn this episode of Midrats, Sal and Mark discuss various aspects of national security, including military deployments, the influence of drug cartels, and the geopolitical dynamics in South America. They delve into the implications of China’s growing presence in the Western Hemisphere and the challenges posed by information warfare. The conversation also touches on the ethical considerations surrounding military orders and reflects on the representation of military experiences in media, particularly in relation to the Vietnam War.Show LinksThe Last 600 MetersDoes Rep. Maggie Goodlander (D NH) really have your back?NORK labor to Russia to build dronesNauru President visits PRCCorbett, China, and CounterintelligenceThe Navy’s new unmanned acquisition officeTactical quantumSmall Wars Journal on the Future FightChapters00:00: Welcome and Thanksgiving Reflections02:11: Military Deployments and National Security04:41: Venezuela and Drug Cartels10:47: South America: Political Dynamics and Security12:54: China’s Influence in the Western Hemisphere20:31: Information Warfare and Disinformation25:59: China’s Global Relationships and Military Strategy30:03: The Role of Smaller Nations in Global Security35:05: Technological Challenges in Modern Warfare48:25: Legal and Ethical Considerations in Military Orders01:00:34: Reflections on Vietnam and Military Representation

For a decade and a half, since President Obama’s Pacific Pivot speech, there has been a rising tide in the conversation about the need to fix the US Navy’s shortfall to meet the challenge of the People’s Republic of China.Faced with systemic and cascading failures in everything from surface ship design to maintenance, and distractions as frivolous as Great Green Fleets at sea and as serious as the Islamic State ashore, navalists have been waiting for serious action on the waterfront to match the rising tide of the strategic situation.Rhetorically at least, the second Trump administration came in saying all the right things to give hope that, at last, we would turn into the wind.Are we?Returning to the Midrats Podcast is Chris Servello, CDR, USN (Ret.), cofounder of Provision Advisors PR Consultancy. Show LinksCavas Ships PodcastProvision AdvisorsSummaryIn this episode of Midrats, Mark, Sal, and Chris Servello discuss the current state of the U.S. Navy, focusing on leadership challenges, the importance of communication, and the need for innovation in naval strategy and technology. They explore the cultural issues within the Navy that hinder progress and the necessity for reform in acquisition processes. The conversation also touches on the role of allied navies and the importance of domestic shipbuilding capabilities in maintaining American sea power.TakeawaysThe Navy is at a critical juncture in reclaiming its sea power.Leadership changes are necessary to address the Navy’s challenges.Communication with Congress and the public is vital for naval support.Cultural issues within the Navy contribute to a lack of innovation.The Navy must learn from allied navies and their practices.Acquisition processes need significant reform to be effective.Risk-taking and creativity are essential for naval success.Domestic shipbuilding capabilities must be prioritized over outsourcing.The current political climate affects national security discussions.The Navy’s future depends on effective leadership and strategic planning.Chapters00:00: Introduction05:04: Reflections on Naval Strategy and Leadership09:51: Challenges in Navy Leadership and Administration14:47: Comparative Analysis of Military Services19:50: The Importance of Communication and Public Engagement24:51: Innovations in Naval Technology and Acquisition Reform30:07: Concluding Thoughts on Naval Future and Leadership32:18: Navigating Leadership Challenges in the Navy34:28: The State of American Sea Power36:42: Balancing Domestic and Foreign Shipbuilding40:52: The Future of Naval Strategy and Technology45:18: The Role of Congress in Naval Affairs48:32: Innovating Beyond Traditional Naval Constructs51:43: Cultural Barriers to Risk and Innovation56:40: Reviving Experimentation in Naval Programs01:00:07: Learning from Global Naval Practices

How are naval shipbuilding, commercial shipbuilding, and commercial shipping linked together to create a healthy and effective national seapower ecosystem?What did the 1990s “Last Supper” get wrong, and what can be done to correct the error?Our guest this week is Hunter Stires, founder and CEO of The Maritime Strategy Group, returning to Midrats to discuss this and more.We will be using as a starting point for our discussion the recent article that he co-wrote with Steve Brock at CIMSEC, Maritime Statecraft and its Future.SummaryIn this conversation with Sal and Mark, Hunter Stires discusses the interconnectedness of naval shipbuilding, commercial shipping, and the broader maritime strategy of the United States. He emphasizes the historical context of U.S. maritime power, the importance of bipartisan support for revitalizing the shipbuilding industry, and the role of allies like South Korea in enhancing U.S. capabilities. The discussion also touches on workforce challenges, the need for competition in the shipbuilding sector, and the strategic imperative of maintaining a robust maritime ecosystem.ShowlinksMaritime Statecraft and its Future, by Steve Brock and Hunter StiresThe Neptune Factor: Alfred Thayer Mahan and the Concept of Sea Power, by Nicholas A. LambertThe Influence of Sea Power Upon History, by Alfred Thayer MahanShipbuilding, Shareholders, and National Asynchronization, by CDR SalamanderShareholder Interests Are at Odds with Navy Needs, by Martin BollingerEpisode 736: Anduril and the Promise of Autonomous Systems - with Chris Brose, by CDR Salamander & Mark TempestTakeawaysThe U.S. maritime ecosystem is interconnected and requires a holistic approach.Bipartisan support is crucial for revitalizing the shipbuilding industry.Historical lessons from figures like Mahan are relevant today.South Korea’s investment in U.S. shipbuilding symbolizes a strong partnership.Workforce challenges in shipbuilding can be addressed through better pay and training.Outsourcing shipbuilding undermines U.S. strategic interests.Competition in the shipbuilding sector leads to innovation and efficiency.The U.S. must leverage its allies for technological advancements in shipbuilding.A maritime revival is possible with the right political will and strategy.Investment in shipbuilding is essential for national security.Chapters00:00: Introduction to Maritime Strategy and Ecosystem02:05: The Interconnection of Naval and Commercial Shipbuilding07:06: Historical Context: Lessons from Mahan and the Past14:40: Bipartisan Support for Maritime Revival18:16: The Role of South Korea in U.S. Shipbuilding31:00: Challenges in U.S. Shipbuilding and Workforce41:50: Future Directions and Strategic PartnershipsHunter Stires served as the Maritime Strategist to the 78th Secretary of the Navy, completing his term in June 2025. He has been recognized for his work as one of the principal architects of the Maritime Statecraft strategy put into action by Secretary of the Navy Carlos Del Toro to rebuild America’s comprehensive maritime power, both commercial and naval. Mr. Stires serves as a Non-Resident Fellow with the Navy League’s Center for Maritime Strategy and as the Project Director of the U.S. Naval Institute’s Maritime Counterinsurgency Project. A graduate of Columbia University, Mr. Stires previously served in the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy and in several positions on the Navy Staff, including in OPNAV N96 Surface Warfare Directorate, OPNAV N95 Expeditionary Warfare Directorate, and OPNAV N522 Navy Irregular Warfare Group. Since departing government, Mr. Stires founded and now serves as CEO of The Maritime Strategy Group.Mr. Stires has been recognized twice with the U.S. Naval Institute’s General Prize, the premier writing award of the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard, judged in the blind by active duty Sea Service professionals each year since its inception in 1879. He was awarded 1st Prize for “The South China Sea Needs a ‘COIN’ Toss,” published in Proceedings in May 2019; he was awarded 2nd Prize for “Win Without Fighting,” published in June 2020. His article in the Summer 2019 issue of the Naval War College Review, “‘They Were Playing Chicken:’ The U.S. Asiatic Fleet’s Gray-Zone Deterrence Campaign against Japan, 1937-40,” was selected for inclusion in the Newport Papers monograph Deterrence. Mr. Stires’s published work has been cited in a wide range of outlets, including Voice of America, Radio Free Asia, War on the Rocks, The National Interest, 19FortyFive, the Liberty Times, Rappler, and the South China Morning Post —as well as the Chinese language edition of the Global Times.