STEM-Talk

Dr. Tommy Wood is a UK-trained physician who is making his third appearance on STEM-Talk. Earlier this year before the COVID-19 outbreak, Tommy gave a well-attended lecture at IHMC about the latest research on building and preserving brain health across people’s lifespans. The lecture was so popular we invited Tommy to join us for another STEM-Talk interview. Tommy is a research assistant professor of pediatrics in the University of Washington Division of Neonatology. He was our guest on episodes 47 and 48 of STEM-Talk. Tommy received his undergraduate degree in biochemistry from the University of Cambridge and a medical degree from the University of Oxford. In addition to working with newborn infants who have brain injuries, Tommy also develops performance optimization strategies for athletes such as Formula 1 racecar drivers and Olympians. As in our first STEM-Talk interview with Tommy, our conversation was so long and wide-ranging that we have divided it into two parts. In today’s episode, we talk to Tommy about the importance of metabolic health, especially as a way to protect ourselves from COVID-19. We touch on Tommy’s work at developing accessible methods to track human health and longevity, and also his research an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington where he studies ways to increase the resilience of developing brains. In part two of our interview, we talk to Tommy about his continuing research into lifestyle approaches to improve health span and lifespan and physical performance. We also have a fascinating discussion about the physiological and metabolic responses to brain injury and their long-term effects on brain health.  Show notes:  [00:05:15] Dawn asks about an article Tommy and a colleague recently wrote, in which Tommy points out that it is becoming increasingly clear that underlying conditions associated with suboptimal metabolic health appear to be associated with poor outcomes in patients with COVID-19. Considering the nature of these underlying conditions, such as obesity and hypertension, he argues that lifestyle-based approaches to protecting ourselves from COVID-19 are likely to be one of our best tools in addressing this ongoing pandemic as well as future pandemics. Tommy summarizes his key points from the article. [00:09:38] Dawn mentions that when Tommy was last interviewed on STEM-Talk, he had just become a senior fellow at the University of Washington and was in the process of moving permanently to the U.S. She goes on to mention that when she asked Tommy what brought him to the states, he said “a girl,” who he ended up marrying. The girl turned out to be Elizabeth Nance who was interviewed on episode 71 of STEM-Talk. Dawn asks how Elizabeth is doing. [00:10:51] Tommy gives an overview of his work as a research assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington in the division of neonatology, where his focus is on ways to increase the resilience of developing brains and also ways to treat neonatal brain injuries. [00:12:45] Dawn explains that Tommy gives a disclaimer at the beginning of his talks that “many of my best ideas are stolen.” She asks what are his best sources for ideas. [00:14:42] Dawn mentions that when Elizabeth was on STEM-Talk, she mentioned that Tommy was constantly reading paper after paper, to the point that it is dizzying to look at Tommy’s computer screen. Tommy describes his research methods and how he goes about collecting material. [00:16:51] Ken mentions that Tommy’s current research interests include the physiological and metabolic responses to brain injury and their long-term effects on brain health. Ken asks about this as well as Tommy’s work to develop easily accessible methods to track human health, performance, and longevity. [00:18:59] Dawn asks why even as a neonatal neuroscientist, Tommy is still interested in working with football players, Formula 1 drivers, and Alzheimer’s patients. Dawn goes on to say that while most neuroscientists specialize in one of the populations, Tommy prefers to look at the brain from cradle to the grave. [00:21:44] Tommy explains how he uses Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs to explain to people what their brain needs. [00:23:48] Dawn mentions that Tommy finds recent brain-age studies to be particularly fascinating because they are just now beginning to show how fetal/neonatal exposures effect adult aging. [00:26:01] Tommy explains the energy demands of the developing brain, and why it takes up 75% of an infant’s metabolic rate. [00:27:12] Dawn mentions that Tommy published a paper last year about the potential use of exogenous ketones for neonatal neuroprotection, which starts with the idea of ketones being essential for the newborn brains. [00:28:53] Ken notes that ketone bodies play a major role in the central nervous system during myelination, not only as a source of energy, but a source of carbon for lipid biosynthesis. Tommy explains the significance of this function of ketone bodies. [00:30:47] Ken asks about unsaturated fats, and their role in brain development. [00:32:14] Dawn asks about the significance of the mother’s diet during infant development, mentioning the work of the late Sheilla Innis, a researcher and proponent of the nutritional needs of babies, children, and expectant mothers. [00:34:13] Dawn mention’s that linoleic acid is a polyunsaturated omega 6 acid that is one of two essential fatty acids for humans. She goes on to explain that since the early ‘60s, the amount of linolenic acid in Americans has increased dramatically, and that it has also has increased dramatically in women’s breastmilk. She asks if this is a problem. [00:36:54] Ken mentions that in the lecture Tommy gave at IHMC, he talked about how people may be suffering from a deluge of processed oils that have become staples of our modern diet. Ken asks Tommy to clarify this and explain the issue with processed oils, and what his advice is on how to deal with that issue. [00:41:11] Dawn explains that Docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, is a type of omega-3 fat. Since our bodies can only make a small amount of DHA, we need to consume it directly from food or a supplement. There have been studies that have shown women who consume 600 to 800 mg of DHA daily during pregnancy reduced their risk of early preterm birth. Dawn asks about the risks low DHA in an expectant mother and if it raises a mother’s risk for a preterm birth. [00:43:07] Dawn mentions that reducing preterm birth is critically important because depending on how prematurely a child is born, they have about a 30% to 50% chance of dying or having a severe disability. She asks what recommendations Tommy has for expectant mothers in terms of reducing premature births. [00:45:30] Dawn asks about something Tommy said in his recent lecture at IHMC, where he quoted Ken as saying, “Humans have, roughly since agriculture, become dumber, weaker, and more frail.” [00:47:35] Ken asks Tommy, given the rise of Alzheimer’s and dementia, and the prevalence of the modern western lifestyle, how does one prevent the brain from declining over time. [00:49:48] Tommy gives an overview of the Amyloid-beta precursor protein, which is a large membrane protein that normally plays an essential role in neural growth and repair. Later in life, however, Amyloid-B can become corrupted and can destroy nerve cells, which leads to the loss of thought and memory in people with Alzheimer’s disease. [00:51:06] Tommy explains why despite the billions spent by the pharmaceutical industry on trials aimed at targeting Amyloid-beta, there have been no promising results. [00:54:01] Dawn mentions that Tommy and his wife wrote a recent paper where they argued that Amyloid-B is an epiphenomenon of neuronal stress. Dawn asks Tommy to discuss this paper and their conclusions. [00:55:30] Ken asks about the most common neuronal stressors, including inflammation from sleep deprivation. Tommy gives a list of the common stressors a person needs to pay attention to for optimal brain health. [00:57:53] Tommy discusses the importance and function of the microglia, better known as the immune system of the brain. [00:59:26] Dawn mentions that inflammation is associated with almost all neurological disorders. She asks Tommy to discuss this as well as the role of fatty acids in inflammatory signaling. [01:02:13] Tommy explains the difference between acute and chronic inflammation. [01:03:41] Tommy talks about his research into how modulating microglia can reduce oxidative stress. [01:06:18] Ken mentions that the problem with modulating the microglia is that they have long memories. He goes on to ask what the solution is to this problem and how does one reduce microglial activation. [01:08:50] Dawn mentions our interview with Francisco Gonzalez Lima, where the drug methylene blue was discussed. She goes on to mention that she and Tommy have been discussing the potential use of this drug in preventing cognitive decline in those working at high altitudes. She asks Tommy about the potential use of methylene blue as a protection against acute brain stress or injury. [01:11:36] Ken ends part one of our interview with Tommy by mentioning everyone agrees that maintaining insulin sensitivity is critically important, but that here in the U.S., we’re not doing a good job of that, with about 82% of Americans having some kind of metabolic disease. Tommy explains why this is such a major health issue.

Today’s guest is Robb Wolf, who is making his third appearance on STEM-Talk. He has a new book, which is being released today, the same day as our interview with Robb goes live. His new book, “Sacred Cow: Why Well Raised Meat Is Good For You and Good For The Planet,” takes a critical look at the assumptions and also the misinformation about meat and provides contrarian views that are science-based showing that meat and animal fat are essential for our bodies. Robb is a former research biochemist who is also the  author of two other New York Times bestsellers, “The Paleo Solution” and “Wired to Eat.” Robb’s career includes a stint as a review editor of the Journal of Nutrition and Metabolism,  a consulting role for the Naval Special Warfare Resiliency Program,  and membership on the board of directors and advisors for Specialty Health, Inc. He also is on the board of the Chickasaw Nation’s Unconquered Life Initiative and works with a number of innovative startups with the focus on health and sustainability. In today’s interview, Robb talks about his move from Reno, Nevada, to the hill country of Texas, the science that supports the importance of meat and fat in a healthy diet, his transition to a ketogenic diet, and how improving our metabolic health is one of the most important things we can do to protect ourselves against COVID-19. [00:03:52] Ken opens the interview mentioning that Robb is making his third appearance on STEM-Talk. He was a guest on episode 27 of STEM-Talk, and also helped Ken co-host an interview with Allan Savory, episode 40. Ken then asks Robb about his move from Reno to the hill country of Texas. [00:05:57] Dawn mentions that Robb has started a new podcast since his last appearance on STEM-Talk. The new podcast is The Healthy Rebellion Radio, and replaces the Paleo Solution. Dawn explains that this new show follows a Q&A format, and features Robb and his wife, Nicki Violetti, answering listener questions. Dawn asks what prompted Robb and Nicki and to start this new podcast. [00:08:12] Dawn asks for an update on a project Robb discussed on episode 27 called the Reno Risk Assessment project, which was a program of diet and lifestyle changes that he and Nicki developed to improve health and performance of police and fire departments. [00:14:07] Dawn asks about the motivations and origins of Robb’s work with the Chickasaw Nation and its “Unconquered Life” project. [00:18:31] Dawn asks Robb about his comments that improving metabolic health is one of the most important things a person can do to protect themselves during the COVID-19 pandemic. [00:20:52] Dawn mentions that researchers at the University of North Carolina published a paper last year that showed only 12% of Americans have optimal metabolic health. The report pointed out that those with poor metabolic health included many people of normal weight. Dawn follows up by asking Robb if he also has found this to be true in his work with people. [00:24:09] Ken asks for Robb’s take on BMI, which can often be misleading. [00:25:21] Dawn asks if Robb’s personal diet has evolved since his previous appearance on STEM-Talk. [00:33:16] Ken mention’s that Robb’s new book, which is scheduled to come out the same day as this episode goes live, is titled, “Sacred Cow.” Ken goes on to say that Robb and his co-author, dietician Diana Rogers, look at the quandaries we face in raising and eating animals. The book  particularly focuses on cows, which Robb describes as not only the largest of our farmed animals, but also the most maligned. Ken begins the discussion of the book by asking Rob why he decided to take on the vegans and the topic of eating animals. [00:38:22] Dawn asks Robb for his take on one of the two major arguments against the consumption of animal products: that eating foods such as beef and chicken and cheese are bad for our health, and what the true science is behind these two claims. [00:42:58] Dawn asks what happens when people replace meat and dense protein sources with plant-based alternatives like grains, legumes, peas, nuts and the like. [00:45:33] Robb discusses the White Oak Pastures Life Cycle Analysis on the beef they raise and how it compares to the Beyond Burger, in terms of net carbon emissions, and other environmental factors. [00:49:56] Dawn mentions that an international team led by Bradley Johnston, an epidemiologist at Dalhousie University, conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis and found very weak evidence that eating red meat is a health risk. Dawn goes on to mention that these authors received significant backlash for their scientific findings as well as attacks  that were both personal and political and motivated more by emotional entrenched beliefs than by science. Dawn asks Robb for his opinion on the study as well as the backlash the authors received. [00:54:45] Ken mentions that the way the authors of this study have been savaged for publishing their findings reminds him of John Ioannidis, who was the guest on episode 77 of STEM-Talk. Ken mentions that Ioannidis argued that evidence-based medicine has been hijacked by researchers with vested interests and personal bias. Ken asks for Robb’s advice for people who are looking for the best information on what is right for their bodies, and how to avoid this sort of biased research. [00:58:21] Ken asks Robb to explain how he addresses the argument that beef supposedly is the most environmentally destructive food, and a serious threat to the environment, in his book. [01:05:42] Ken asks Robb about his analysis of Allan Savory’s work, who appeared on STEM-Talk, episode 40, who argued that increasing the number of livestock on grasslands, rather than fencing them off, is a way to stop desertification. [01:07:53] Dawn asks Robb about the argument that cattle husbandry is extremely water intensive. Robb discusses a study out of the Netherlands which shows that raising beef requires less water per pound than raising avocadoes or walnuts. [01:09:48] Ken mentions that the New York Times recently published an opinion piece titled, “The End of Meat is Here,” with the subtitle, “If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating animals.” Robb gives a counterview on those claims. [01:12:57] Dawn mentions that Bill Gates, on his website, has a review he wrote of Vaclav Smils’ book, “Should We Eat Meat.” Gates writes that there are indeed environmental issues that need addressing in terms of raising livestock. Gates’ review, however, goes on to explain the many benefits to the poor and developing countries in regards to the introduction of meat into their diets. Robb gives his take on the constant drumbeat in the media for the elimination of meat from our diet despite data such as what is discussed in Gates’ review. [01:16:59] Ken asks Robb about his take on the PRIME Act, or the Processing Revival and Intrastate Meat Exemption Act. Ken explains that the current law requires processing of all beef, pork and lamb to be slaughtered and processed in USDA inspected facilities or state facilities, which are often hundreds of miles away from small farms and ranches. Whereas the PRIME Act would give ranchers and farmers another more local-based option for processing and marketing their meat, and also give local restaurants, grocery stores and other food-service establishments the ability to more affordably source local meat. [01:22:53] Dawn mentions that Robb is part of a team that has put together a  Sacred Cow website. The website focuses on the moral, environmental and nutritional issues we face in raising and eating animals, particularly the cow. Robb discusses the website and how people can order his book. [01:25:18] Dawn asks about the film Robb and his co-author, Diana, are working on, which is designed to be complimentary to the book. [01:26:05] Dawn asks how Robb and Diana met and what lead them to start working together. [01:29:08] Dawn asks Robb for his advice for people who decline eating meat for religious or other reasons that have nothing to do with the environment.  She asks Robb to talk abou optimizing and maintaining metabolic health if you’re a person who doesn’t eat meat. [01:30:59] Robb explains the 30-day challenge he gives readers in “Sacred Cow,” which helps people transition to a healthful and conscientious diet, as well as a way to support sustainable farms. [01:34:14] Ken asks if Robb senses that the mainstream medical community is opening up to the idea of ketosis and fasting as tools to help people lose weight and improve their health. [01:38:26] Dawn mentions that Robb and Nicki co-founded one of the first CrossFit affiliates in the country in 2004, where they worked a lot with people on their diet and exercise regimens. Dawn asks Robb to give an update on the gym. [01:39:13] Ken asks what Robb’s training looks like since many gyms are closed due to COVID-19. [01:42:51] Dawn closes the interview asking Robb if it’s true that he and Ken are working on a book together.

Because of the number of questions that keep pouring in, today we have another Ask Me Anything episode.  We also have been receiving requests to do more of these shows, so we plan to record more frequent AMA episodes in the future. If you have questions for Ken and Dawn, email them to STEM-Talk producer Randy Hammer at rhammer@ihmc.us. In today’s episode we touch a little bit on COVID-19, but most questions revolve around diet and sleep and brain health. Ken also explains the meaning behind IHMC’s name and Dawn shares why she tweaked her vegetarian lifestyle to now include fish in her diet. Plus, Ken weighs in on the dangers of AI, real and imagined. It’s a fun, wide-ranging episode. Enjoy! Show notes: [00:02:28] Dawn opens the AMA with a listener question for Ken about his thoughts on social distancing. [00:03:19] A listener asks Dawn about the long-term pulmonary effects for survivors of COVID-19, and how this will impact divers. [00:04:49] Dawn reads a listener question for Ken about the U.S. relationship with China in regards to drug manufacturing: “During your interview with Katherine Eban, you made a comment about how current events related to COVID-19 truly highlight the fault in our dependency on Chinese manufacturing for our pharmaceuticals. That was just a few months ago…Where do you see our relationship with China heading with respect to drug manufacturing in the future?” {00:06:54] Ken talks about the need for each individual to take responsibility for the pharmaceuticals they ingest and recommends listening to Katherine’s Eban’s STEM-Talk interview and checking out her website, which has a wealth of information about generic drugs. [00:07:19] A listener asks Dawn about her shift from strict vegetarianism to occasionally adding fish into her diet. The listener wonders if this came about as a result of some of the discussions on STEM-Talk, or if her decision was inspired by something else? [00:09:07] A listener asks Ken if he uses branch chain amino acids, and if so how? [00:11:52] Ken talks about how combining essential amino-acid supplementation with mechanical loading via resistance training is a powerful strategy to combat the age-related loss of muscle function and mass that often leads to sarcopenia in the older population. [00:14:45] Dawn poses a listener’s question to Ken about why nutritionists seem to almost unanimously tolerate intermittent fasting or time-restricted eating, but oppose the ketogenic diet. The listener goes on to ask if there is any difference between getting into ketosis through diet versus fasting. [00:17:30] A listener asks Ken, who was an early adopter of a low-carb ketogenic diet, how his understanding of low-carb and healthy diets has changed as research has progressed. [00:19:25] A listener talks about how their adoption of time-restricted eating has led to late-night binge eating. The listener asks if it is true that skipping breakfast makes it harder to suppress ghrelin, sometimes referred to as “the hunger hormone.” The listener is curious about this because so many STEM-Talk guests talk about how they skip breakfast. [00:22:45] A listener asks Dawn: “In your podcast with Francisco Gonzalez-Lima, you talked about the potential role of methylene blue in protecting individuals exposed to environmental hypoxia. Do you know of any studies that have looked at this potential application of methylene blue?” [00:26:05] A listener asks Ken about adding legumes back into one’s diet after losing weight through the ketogenic diet, and if the weight will return if legumes are reintroduced. [00:29:20] A listener asks how Ken came up with the name “Institute for Human and Machine Cognition,” and what all the name entails? [00:30:51] A listener asks Dawn about the replication of extreme environments in a lab setting when studying human performance in various extreme environments. [00:34:56] A listener asks Ken: “There was some recent news coverage about how tanks are being driven by artificial intelligence and how machine guns are being equipped with facial recognition software…As I listened to the interview that Dawn did with you a while back, you said you didn’t agree with Elon Musk’s rather dark vision of rogue robots going around killing people…I’m curious if your thoughts about weaponized robots and the dangers of AI have changed over the past couple of years. And what do you see as the future?” [00:37:14] In responding to a listener’s question about the best ways to improve a person’s mental health, Ken recommends throwing away your TV, limiting your time on social media, taking walks in forests, get better sleep, have more sex, and listen to STEM-Talk. He goes on to expand on some of these ideas. [00:38:27] A listener asks if Ken has ever used the Ooler sleep device, and if so, what does he think of it? [00:39:32] Dawn answers a listener’s question about what her research into the brain’s lymphatic system in extreme environments is yielding. [00:41:54] A listener asks Ken to elaborate on a speech he gave in which he said people should strive to be better animals. Ken explains what he meant and adds that people should also recognize and embrace that we are all part of the animal kingdom. [00:42:56] A listener mentions that there are several activity and sleep-tracking devices in the form of a ring, and that during the Peter Attia episode, Ken and Peter discussed the Oura ring and another ring that Ken said he was evaluating. The listener asks about the results of that evaluation. [00:46:59] Ken asks Dawn if it’s true that you have better glymphatic function when you sleep on your side? [00:47:52] A listener asks how the collection of health-related data via smartphones and wearables will impact the diving community. The listener goes on to ask if Dawn sees the diving community moving toward collecting such physiological parameters to define such things as decompression. [00:50:14] Ken asks Dawn about underwater eye-tracking studies. [00:51:32] Dawn closes the AMA with a listener’s question about natural sleep aids to maintain healthy sleep during the COVID-19 crisis and the disruption of sleep schedules that many people are experiencing in quarantine. Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio  

Behavioral neuroscientist Dr. Francisco Gonzalez-Lima discusses the use of low-dose methylene blue and near-infrared light as therapies for cognitive disorders. Topics include mitochondrial respiration, cognitive benefits of interventions, historical origins of methylene blue, strategies for synergy, and conversations on neurodegeneration and cognitive enhancement.

Our guest today is Dr. Francisco Gonzalez-Lima, a professor in the department of psychology, pharmacology and toxicology and the department of psychiatry at The University of Texas at Austin. He also is a professor at the university’s Institute for Neuroscience. We covered so much ground in our discussion with Francisco that we have split his interview into two parts. Today’s interview focuses on Francisco’s fascinating background as a youth and Cuban expatriate as well as his early research into Alzheimer’s Disease and brain metabolic mapping. The second part of our interview, which follows in a few weeks, covers two interventions Francisco has been exploring with the aim of protecting people against neurodegeneration: low-dose methylene blue and the application of near-infrared light. Francisco describes himself as a behavioral neuroscientist. He and his colleagues at the Gonzalez-Lima Lab are recognized as world leaders for their research on the relationship between brain energy metabolism, memory and neurobehavioral disorders. Although he has spent most of his academic career at the University of Texas, Francisco has been a visiting neuroscientist in Germany, England, Canada and Spain, and has delivered more than 120 lectures around the world about his brain research. He also has contributed work to more than 300 scientific publications. Over the years, Francisco’s brain research has focused on transcranial lasers, memory enhancement, neuroprotection and neurocognitive disorders. Current research in the Gonzalez-Lima laboratory focuses on the beneficial neurocognitive and emotional effects of noninvasive human brain stimulation in healthy, aging and mentally ill populations. This research primarily uses transcranial infrared laser stimulation and multimodal imaging. Show notes: [00:03:23] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that Francisco was born in Cuba where his father worked as a veterinarian. Dawn asks how Francisco’s family ended up leaving Cuba for Costa Rica when he was only ten years old. [00:04:25] Ken asks if it is true that Francisco got into a lot of fights as a child. [00:05:19] Francisco talks about his time as a child accompanying his veterinarian father to take care of cattle. [00:06:46] Dawn asks about Francisco’s time in college, two years of which he spent in Venezuela, and how he became known as an anti-communist student leader on campus. [00:08:18] Francisco tells the story of how he ended up going to school at Tulane University. [00:09:13] Dawn mentions that because Francisco’s father was a veterinarian, Francisco went to Tulane with the intent of working with animals. But after watching a professor dissect a human brain in class one day, Francisco changed his major. [00:10:17] Ken asks Francisco what lead him to decide to get a bachelor’s degree in biology and psychology. [00:11:49] Dawn asks about Francisco’s work with Nobel Prize winner Dr. Andrew Schalley during Francisco’s last summer at Tulane. [00:12:56] Francisco explains how he ended up of the University of Puerto Rico getting his doctorate in anatomy and neurobiology. [00:14:28] Dawn asks Francisco how learning about electrophysiology in his doctoral studies had an impact on him. [00:15:22] Francisco tells an interesting story of his doctoral dissertation. [00:16:21] Dawn asks about Francisco’s work with Dr. Walter Stiehl and the papers the two of them published in the European Journal of Pharmacology. [00:17:19] Dawn mentions that in 1981 Francisco met Henning Scheich, a German professor who had done a study involving the newly developed 2-deoxyglucose autoradiographic method. Francisco talks about why this neuroimaging approach to brain research fascinated him and led him to propose an ambitious collaborative research project with Dr. Scheich. [00:18:27] Dawn asks Francisco to talk about the work he did with Dr. Scheich to develop the human FDG (fluorodeoxyglucose) neuroimaging method, the first functional brain imaging technique to be used in humans. [00:19:58] Ken asks Francisco to explain the difference between functional studies and imaging studies. [00:21:18] Dawn asks about how Francisco met a group of Texas professors at a conference in Madrid, which lead him to join the new College of Medicine at Texas A&M. [00:22:35] Dawn mentions that in 1991, the University of Texas at Austin recruited Francisco to join its new Institute for Neuroscience and the Department of Psychology. [00:23:32] Dawn asks about the research Francisco and his colleagues are doing in the Gonzalez-Lima lab. [00:24:11] Ken asks what Francisco means when he describes himself as a behavioral neuroscientist. [00:25:13] Dawn asks about Francisco’s work on the neuroimaging effects of Pavlovian conditioning. [00:27:45] Dawn asks about the work Francisco did on habituation and sensitization. [00:29:57] Ken mentions that the brain is designed to handle large amounts of communication and computation. He asks if Francisco can elaborate on this concept. [00:31:10] Ken asks Francisco to describe the redundant structures of the brain. [00:33:35] Dawn turns the discussion to Alzheimer’s Disease, mentioning we still don’t fully grasp how the brain works. [00:35:12] Dawn mentions that in 2001 Francisco published a paper titled “Energy Hypometabolism in Posterior Cingulate Cortex of Alzheimer’s Patients: Superficial Laminar Cytochrome Oxidase Associated with Disease Duration.” The main histochemical finding of this study was that the decreased ration or the gravity of Alzheimer’s Disease was not related to any of the other things that were commonly mentioned like amyloid or tau proteins. Francisco gives an overview of this study and its significance. [00:39:32] Ken asks if ketone uptake in the brain diminishes some cases of Alzheimer’s or TBI. [00:41:18] Ken mentions Steven Cunane’s STEM-Talk interview and the work he has done work using neuroimaging to see if it’s possible to replace the energy lost from the glucose deficit with exogenous ketones. [00:42:11] Ken asks about the early signs of Alzheimer’s Disease. [00:45:27] Ken asks about the vascular hypothesis of Alzheimer’s Disease. [00:48:16] Dawn mentions that in the past few years, there has been a lot of coverage in the media about Early Onset Alzheimer’s Disease. She goes on to say that Francisco has pointed out in past interviews that EOAD is a rare genetic disease that is causally different than the most common geriatric dementia that is mistakenly called Alzheimer’s or late onset AD. Francisco discusses how this confusion has been an obstacle in advancing research. [00:52:24] Dawn gives a preview of part two of our interview with Francisco, which will upload in a few weeks. Links: Francisco Gonzalez-Lima bio Gonzalez-Lima Lab Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage  Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio      

Our guest today is Dr. Arthur De Vany, who we interviewed three years ago on episode 30 of STEM-Talk. Art, who is perhaps best known as one of the founders of the Paleo movement, is the author of “The New Evolution Diet: What Our Paleolithic Ancestors Can Teach Us About Weight Loss, Fitness and Aging.” Art is a professor emeritus of economics at the University of California, Irvine. In our first interview, we talked to Art about his early research into the economics of the movie business and how he created mathematical and statistical models to precisely describe the motion-picture market. In today’s interview, Art talks to us about the new book he’s working on that’s tentatively titled, “The Youthful Brain—A Revolutionary Program to protect the Brain, Extend Youthfulness and Prevent Alzheimer’s Disease.” The book is a continuation of Art’s ongoing study of the human body and brain and offers his strategies for preventing brain deterioration and maintaining a healthy, lean body. Show notes: [00:03:13] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that it has been three years since Art’s first appearance on the podcast. She asks Art what it is about the modern Western lifestyle that sends so many people to an early grave. [00:05:42] Dawn asks about Art’s discovery that the world’s healthiest, long-living individuals typically have low insulin. [00:07:44] Ken mentions that Art is working on a new book that will look at brain-body signaling and provide strategies for preventing brain deterioration and maintaining a healthy lean body. Art talks about how we originally planned to write about aging, but that most aging research is bull and that nobody really understands what it is. He explains that in his mind aging is basically a directed random walk into entropy. [00:10:11] Ken asks about one of Art’s key points, that Alzheimer’s disease and many other diseases of neural degeneration and cognitive decline are largely metabolic diseases compounded by loss of muscle mass and stem-cell exhaustion. [00:13:09] Dawn asks about the evolution of the human brain, and how the most recent additions to the brain are the most dependent on glucose metabolism. [00:14:22] Dawn mentions that synapses are essential to neuronal function, as they are the means by which neurons communicate signals. She asks Art to expand on the comment he made in his recent lecture at IHMC stating that “synapses are forever young but in ever need of support and protection.” [00:16:29] Ken asks about the lactate shuttle hypothesis, which is based on the observation that lactate is formed and utilized continuously in diverse cells under both anaerobic and aerobic conditions. [00:18:51] Dawn mentions the role of mitochondria, and how when they are not working the way they should that cells and tissues of our body become starved for energy, forcing us to rely on anaerobic metabolism. This results in a number of issues. She asks Art what we can do to maintain healthy mitochondria over our lifespan. [00:21:25] Art gives advice for reprograming the metabolism of the aging brain. [00:22:35] Ken asks about mTOR from an evolutionary perspective and why people have so many concerns regarding its role in cancer and degenerative disease. [00:24:35] Art explains his view of aging as the “failure of a renewal program,” and why aging is not programmed. [00:26:35] Dawn mentions that she has heard that Art eats just two meals a day, an early breakfast and dinner, to create a long interval between meals so his body can maintain low-insulin signaling. She asks how this brings on the defensive and repair pathways. [00:28:52] Ken asks about Art’s exercise routine and why he prefers fasted exercise. [00:30:46] Dawn asks about the importance of sleep, if Art still takes melatonin to help with his sleep, and what advice he has for people in terms of getting good sleep. [00:32:56] Dawn mentions that Art has commented that physically and genetically we are built to run fast and climb trees, but given the state of the modern world she asks what is the best way to stay physically fit if we are not allowed to regularly do those things that we evolved to do. [00:35:47] Ken asks for Art’s thoughts on why we have seen the loss of mass in the human brain, particularly in the hippocampus. [00:41:44] Ken asks about the role of oxytocin in preserving brain mass. [00:43:02] Dawn points out that Art is 82 years old. If aging is indeed a random walk into entropy, she asks Art what he considers a reasonable expectation is in terms of human lifespan. [00:43:50] Dawn mentions that Art has in the past said that he was 78 years old when he first started thinking about aging.  Given that most people start having those thoughts in their 60s, she asks why it took him so long. [00:44:55] Ken closes the interview asking Art what advice he would give to his younger self. Links: Art De Vany Amazon page Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage  Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio

Today’s interview is with Katherine Eban, an investigative journalist who uncovered the widespread fraud that goes on overseas in the manufacturing of U.S. generic drugs. With the outbreak of the deadly coronavirus, which originated in China but is now spreading across the globe and United States, today’s interview is especially timely. Katherine’s recent book, “Bottle of Lies,” reveals that nearly 80 percent of the active ingredients of all brand-name and generic drugs as well as almost all of our antibiotics in the U.S. are made outside of the country, mostly in China and India. Today’s interview highlights the dangers Americans face in outsourcing the quality and safety of its brand-name and generic drugs to overseas manufacturers. Katherine is an investigative journalist who has written award-winning stories that range from pharmaceutical counterfeiting to gun trafficking to even coercive interrogations by the CIA. Her first book, “Dangerous Doses: A True Story of Cops, Counterfeiters and the Contamination of America’s Drug Supply,” was named one of the Best Books of 2005 by Kirkus Reviews. “Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom” is a New York Times bestseller that came out in 2019 and was named one of the top 100 notable books of 2019 by the Times. Show notes: [00:03:16] Dawn opens the interview mentioning Katherine’s appearance on Peter Attia’s podcast. [00:04:30] Ken asks how Katherine how she ended up living just three subway stops from where she grew up in Brooklyn. [00:05:01] Katherine talks about how despite her talent and interest in writing, she at one point joined the circus in high school and considered going to clown school after she graduated. [00:06:02] Dawn asks how Katherine ended up in Rhode Island to attend Brown University instead of going to Florida to attend the Ringling Brothers Clown College. [00:06:47] Katherine talks about her time at Brown University editing the school’s literary magazine. [00:07:24] Ken Asks about Katherine’s time at Oxford University as a Rhodes scholar. [00:08:37] Dawn asks how Katherine, a woman who holds a Master’s degree in 17th Century English Epic Civil War Poetry, became a journalist. [00:10:23] Dawn asks about Katherine’s first big story, which also happened to be her first story. [00:11:49] Dawn asks Catherine long she worked at the New York Times. [00:13:07] Katherine explains how she came to write her first book, “Dangerous Doses: A True Story of Cops, Counterfeiters and the Contamination of America’s Drug Supply.” [00:14:56] Dawn mentions that after the publishing of “Dangerous Doses,” Katherine spent a decade investigating the generic-drug industry, an investigation sparked by a phone call from a colleague who asked for her help. [00:16:17] Ken asks about the difference between a generic and brand-name drug, and what is involved in the process of reverse-engineering a drug. [00:17:43] Dawn asks about the series of interviews Katherine conducted with patients sharing their experiences with generic drugs, which led to a story she wrote for “Self” magazine in 2009. [00:20:15] Ken mentions that in the “Self” magazine article, Katherine wrote about Dr. Kesselheim, an instructor at Harvard Medical school who reviewed data from 47 clinical studies. He found no evidence that patients on brand-name cardiovascular drugs had outcomes superior to those on generics. Given this study is now 10 years old, Ken asks if anyone has revisited this analysis. [00:21:25] Katherine tells the story of her anonymous informant that contacted her about a month after the “Self” magazine article, who went by the pseudonym “4 Dollar Refill.” [00:22:38] Dawn mentions that over the following five years, Katherine wrote a series of articles about generic-drug quality, which culminated in a 10,000-word article titled “Dirty Medicine” published in Fortune Magazine in 2013. [00:24:03] Dawn mentions that a reason that generic drugs account for 90% of the drugs in the U.S. is that generics are so much cheaper than brand names. She goes on to ask about how in “Bottle of Lies” Katherine explains why the low cost of manufacturing in India and China has created issues for the American consumer. [00:25:08] Dawn asks about the Carnegie Fellowship Katherine received in the midst of working on “Bottle of Lies.” [00:26:42] Ken asks Katherine how many interviews she had to do for her book. [00:27:11] Katherine talks about how the plan to help Africa during the AIDS epidemic laid the groundwork for some of the corruption she laid out in “Bottle of Lies.” [00:29:14] Katherine tells the story of Harry Lever, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic, who started noticing his patients suffering from low platelet count after taking heparin, which raised his concerns, and led him to discover that heparin had been contaminated in China. [00:30:10] Ken asks what the average person can expect if they tell their pharmacist that they do not want the generic version of a drug that their doctor prescribed. [00:31:26] Dawn asks if this problem is being substantially driven by insurance companies. [00:31:56] Ken asks what it was that caused generic drugs to make up 90% of the drug supply today, when in 2009 they only made up 60%. [00:33:16] Dawn asks about Peter Baker, a young FDA investigator, who ended up in New Delhi looking into Indian drug manufacturers. [00:34:17] Ken asks about the obstacles Peter Baker faced. [00:36:47] Katherine explains what the protocol is when an FDA investigator finds contamination. [00:38:18] Dawn asks about Peter Baker’s investigation into the Wockhardt plant. [00:41:22] Ken asks Katherine to tell the story of Ranbaxy, India’s largest drug company. [00:44:27] Katherine how Dinesh Thakur became a whistleblower. [00:45:51] Ken asks what happened to Ranbaxy. [00:46:29] Katherine explains why Peter Baker eventually left the FDA despite the good work he was doing. [00:48:18] Dawn mentions that in light of Baker’s and other FDA investigators’ discoveries of fraud and corruption in China and India, stronger regulations are needed in order to protect consumers. She asks if Katherine has a sense of what direction the FDA is headed in that regard. [00:49:39] Ken asks if we should start producing more of our own drugs in the U.S. [00:50:30] Katherine explains the resource on her website titled “A Guide to Investigating Your Own Drugs.” [00:52:21] Dawn asks about Valisure, a mail-order pharmacy that tests every drug that they dispense to ensure quality. [00:54:18] Dawn mentions that Katherine was recently in India to do some talks and book signings, but that she had concerns about the reception because the Modi Government had put out a statement saying that it was going to take action against her book. [00:55:39] Ken asks if Katherine is working on any new projects at the moment. [00:56:13] Ken asks if Katherine is still in touch with Harry Lever at the Cleveland Clinic, or “4 Dollar Refill.” [00:56:47] Dawn closes the interview asking about Katherine’s 187-pound dog Romeo. Links: Katherine Eban website Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio    

Today’s interview is with Dr. Abraham Morgentaler, an internationally known pioneer in men’s sexuality and the founder of the first comprehensive center in the U.S. specializing in men’s health. Abe’s research has upended longstanding concepts regarding testosterone therapy, prostrate cancer and male sexuality.  He is particularly credited with research that has contradicted the established view that testosterone injections led to elevated risks for prostate cancer. In today’s interview, we talk to Abe about testosterone deficiency and its effects on men’s health and sex drive; the biological functions of testosterone; and Abe’s work treating metastatic prostrate cancer. Abe is the director of Men’s Health Boston and an associate clinical professor of Urology at Harvard Medical School. He is the author of “Why Men Fake It: The Totally Unexpected Truth About Men and Sex,” which was retitled “The Truth About Men and Sex” for the paperback edition. He also is the author of “Testosterone for Life: Recharge Your Vitality, Sex Drive, Muscle Mass and Overall Health.” Show notes [00:02:58] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that Abe grew up in Canada, asking him what his interests were as a kid other than hockey. [00:04:28] Dawn asks what Abe’s gap year between high school and college was like. [00:07:48] Abe explains that when he was born, his mother had some specific wishes for him. He failed at one but came through on the other. [00:08:17] While a sophomore in college trying to find his way, Abe ended up studying sex hormones in lizards. [00:16:32] Dawn explains that for a long time the greatest fear related to the use of testosterone therapy was that it would lead to prostate cancer. This was based on a 1941 paper by Charles Huggins from the University of Chicago, who wrote that his research found cancers were sensitive to hormonal manipulation. Dawn asks Abe to discuss how he started questioning this long-held dogma that high testosterone levels caused prostate cancer. [00:23:29] Dawn mentions that this story is a great example of why it is important in science to question things, particularly the status quo. [00:31:50] Abe talks about his 2006 paper, “Testosterone and Prostate Cancer, a Historical Myth,” which showed that the data contradicted the old belief that more testosterone would lead to more prostate growth. [00:40:10] Ken mentions that Abe followed up his previously mentioned paper with another one titled, “The Saturation Model and the Limits of Androgen-Dependent Growth.” [00:45:19] Abe talks about the exciting work he is doing helping men deal with metastatic prostate cancer. [00:51:32] Dawn explains how Abe uses the term “low T” to describe a condition that is otherwise known as hypogonadism or testosterone deficiency syndrome. Abe describes the many biological functions of testosterone. [00:53:27] Abe responds to the criticism that because testosterone levels decline with age, the process must be natural and, therefore, should not be treated. [00:55:42] Abe discusses a paper that came out in 2013 in the Journal of the American Medical Association that reported increased cardiovascular risk in men given testosterone replacement, and how the study’s statistical analysis was seriously flawed. [01:07:03] Ken mentions that in 2017, a trial by Budoff et al., published in JAMA, suggested that testosterone replacement therapy in men with low T led to more rapid progression of atherosclerotic plaques compared to placebo. [01:13:21] Ken asks why Abe thinks that testosterone replacement therapy can actually be protective in regards to cardiovascular disease. [01:14:19] Ken asks about the seemingly rapid drop in testosterone levels in men in the western world as reported by several papers including the Massachusetts Male Aging Study, as well as a large Finnish Study, and a 2017 meta-analysis. [01:17:37] Dawn mentions that while most people are aware of the term menopause, most are less familiar with the term andropause, coined as the male equivalent. [01:20:41] Abe explains why blood tests for low T can be deceiving, and alternative tests that produce more practical results. [01:25:55] Dawn asks about Men’s Health Boston, which Abe founded in 1999, which was the first comprehensive men’s health center in the United States. [01:29:18] Ken asks about the different modes and types of testosterone administration. [01:33:21] Ken asks about the fears of the aromatization of testosterone to estrogen with replacement therapy. [01:36:14] Ken asks if there are any studies looking into “super physiological” levels of testosterone, such as levels up to 2000. [01:39:22] Ken mentions that in Abe’s book “The Truth About Men and Sex,” Abe explains that his attempt was to pull back the curtain to reveal men as they truly are, the last chapter being titled, “Men Are People, Too.” [01:43:19] Dawn asks Abe what he likes to do in his spare time. [01:45:36] Dawn mentions that Abe was 18 when he entered Harvard as a freshman, and asks him if he had any idea that he would still be at Harvard more than four decades later.

Our guest today is Dr. Adam Konopka, an assistant professor in the Department of Kinesiology and Community Health at the University of Illinois Urbana Champaign, who believes that aging is the greatest risk factor for just about every single chronic disease that exists. Adam’s lab, called the Musculoskeletal Aging and Metabolism Lab, is focused on aging-related research. In addition to doing research that looks at different ways to delay the onset of age-related diseases and functional decline, Adam also has done a lot of research related to the interaction of exercise with metformin. Adam and his colleagues had a paper in Aging Cell that suggested metformin may blunt the health benefits of exercise in healthy older adults, a study that attracted a lot of attention and was highlighted in a story in The New York Times back in June. Show notes: [00:03:59] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that Adam’s lab is at the University of Illinois, and asks if he decided on Illinois because he grew up in a suburb outside of Chicago. [00:04:28] Dawn asks Adam how he ended up getting into competitive swimming. [00:05:13] Adam explains how his involvement in swimming increased his curiosity about physiology and ways to improve performance, a line of thought that contributed to his eventual majoring in exercise science. [00:05:49] Dawn asks Adam why he decided to minor in entrepreneurship. [00:06:18] Dawn asks Adam about the time when a professor doing research in pediatrics gave Adam the opportunity to volunteer for a study. [00:07:01] Ken mentions that while Adam was a student, he had the opportunity to work on a study which looked at an exercise program used by crew members aboard the International Space Station. Adam explains what his role in this study was. [00:08:05] Adam talks about his time spent at the Mayo Clinic as a postdoctoral research fellow, where he focused his time on looking at skeletal muscle mitochondrial function. [00:09:00] Dawn explains Adam’s notion that mitochondria contribute to obesity induced insulin resistance, a highly debated topic. Dawn goes on to mention Adam’s 2015 paper that looked at obese women who had defects in mitochondrial efficiency and hydrogen peroxide emissions. Adam explains how exercise effectively restored the mitochondrial physiology of these women to that of a leaner phenotype. [00:10:36] Adam discusses a metformin study he was a part of while at the Mayo Clinic, where he tested a hypothesis that had been previously shown in cell culture, to learn if those findings were translatable to humans. [00:11:51] Adam talks about the significance of his findings that metformin improved fasting and postprandial glycemia without inhibiting glucagon-stimulated glucose production. [00:12:59] Ken asks about the two and a half years Adam spent at Colorado State and the research that he conducted there. [00:13:32] Adam explains the mission of, and the research being done at, his lab, The Musculoskeletal Aging and Metabolism Lab, at the University of Illinois. [00:16:25] Ken asks Adam if he has looked into rapamycin and muscle, with respect to mTOR inhibition. [00:17:01] Dawn mentions that Adam took these earlier studies, as well as the research he did as a postdoc, and started asking questions related to the interaction of exercise with metformin. [00:17:30] Ken mentions how this research led to Adam’s paper earlier this year, which was highlighted in the New York Times, and which cast doubt on the idea that exercise and metformin, both of which have been looked at in the context of healthspan extension, work well together in conjunction. [00:19:24] Dawn asks if the negative effects of metformin documented in various studies are relatively modest and or negligible. [00:20:30] Ken asks Adam to speculate on some of his findings, particularly why a certain portion of individuals dosed with metformin are likely to be negative-responders, but at the same time others are positive-responders. Adam talks on this wide variability in the response to metformin. [00:23:12] Dawn asks about Adam’s follow-up research into exercise and metformin that he received a grant for. [00:25:20] Ken mentions it has been suggested that people space out the taking of metformin from the time a person exercises, given that the half-life of metformin is six hours. [00:27:03] Dawn asks if the widely reported health benefits of metformin are worth it possibly inhibiting beneficial mitochondrial adaptations to exercise in older adults. [00:28:38] Dawn asks for Adam to speculate on the mechanisms behind how metformin blunts the adaptive response to exercise. [00:30:48] Ken talks in regards to the NIH-funded trial into metformin called, “Targeting Aging with Metformin” or TAME. Ken asks about Adam’s paper in GeroScience titled, “Taming Expectations of Metformin as a Treatment to Extend Healthspan.” [00:32:57] Ken mentions that he would have liked to have seen rapamycin used instead of metformin in the TAME trial. [00:33:42] Dawn asks if Adam believes that a metformin trial in healthy individuals is currently warranted. [00:34:38] Dawn mentions that while metformin undoubtedly helps individuals suffering from metabolic disease, it is unclear if it has any significant positive effects on already healthy individuals. She goes on to mention that this is paradoxical in light of the fact that the majority of popular interest in off-label use of metformin is in healthy individuals or the so called “worried well,” people who already follow habits of good health. [00:36:16] Ken asks Adam how, in a perfect world, he would design a trial for healthspan-extending intervention in regards to what intervention would he pick, and how he would gauge efficacy considering that an intervention in healthy individuals would ideally need to be continued for several decades in order to determine a true effect. Ken goes on to ask what the pros and cons are of proxies for age in such a study including telomere length as well as biological and epigenetic clocks. [00:39:26] Ken asks how Adam would adjust for lifestyle behaviors like dietary manipulation and exercise that activate similar pathways to drugs like metformin and rapamycin in his hypothetical study. [00:40:44] Dawn asks if Adam has much expectation in extending lifespan with pharmacological methods, or if he thinks that merely healthspan will increase while we see a so-called compression of morbidity, and if he thinks that these pharmacological treatments are likely to surpass lifestyle interventions like exercise. [00:42:39] Ken asks if Adam has looked at PPAR-D agonists, which are a class of drugs that provide some of the effects of exercise pharmacologically. [00:43:50] Adam gives his advice to people interested in extending their healthspan. [00:44:57] Dawn asks what Adam’s diet and exercise routine look like. [00:46:11] Dawn mentions that she knows that Adam and his wife have a young child and closes the interview asking Adam what he does for fun in his spare time. Links: Adam Konopka bio Musculoskeletal Aging and Metabolism Lab Facebook page Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage  Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio  

Today we talk with Dr. Rachel Yehuda whose pioneering research on cortisol and brain function has revolutionized worldwide our understanding and treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder. Rachel is also well-known for her studies on the intergenerational transmission of trauma and PTSD. This novel research has shown that the children of traumatized parents are at risk of similar problems due to epigenetic changes that are transmitted from the parents to their offspring. She has worked with war veterans, Holocaust survivors and other victims of trauma to detail the biological roots of PTSD. She is a professor of psychiatry and neuroscience and the director of the Traumatic Stress Studies Division at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. She also is the director of the Mental Health Patient Care Center at the James J. Peters VA Medical Center. Show notes: [00:02:31] Dawn begins the interview asking Rachel about her time as a child growing up in Cleveland. [00:03:17] After Ken mentions that Rachel’s father was a rabbi, Rachel explains how growing up in an observant Jewish household shaped her. [00:04:46] Rachel talks about a biology teacher who inspired her to go beyond her interests in philosophy and pursue science. [00:05:50] Dawn asks Rachel why it seems that so many scientists start out with an interest in philosophy. [00:07:16] Dawn asks Rachel why she decided to major in psychology at Touro University in New York. [00:08:16] Ken asks Rachel why she decided to attend the University of Massachusetts at Amherst after graduating from Touro University. [00:09:03] Rachel explains how she went into graduate school looking for a way to become both a psychologist and a scientist. [00:10:08] Dawn asks Rachel about something Rachel’s daughter observed about her: “You move to the beat of your own drum. You never do anything other than what the voice in your head tells you to do.” [00:11:12] Ken asks if it is true that Rachel’s first graduate advisor was not optimistic about Rachel making it through grad school. [00:12:33] Rachel tells the story of how she first met Bill Edell and walked up to him and said that she wanted to do clinical research. [00:14:38] Ken asks Rachel why she decided to do research on stress, particularly when stress wasn’t a major focus of research in the 1980s. [00:16:05] Dawn mentions that after graduating from UMass Amherst, Rachel did her postdoctoral work in biological psychiatry at Yale Medical School. Rachel met Dr. Earl Giller there, who became Rachel’s mentor and an early researcher in post-traumatic stress disorder. Rachel talks about how Dr. Giller had just completed a study on Vietnam veterans showing low cortisol levels. [00:18:40] Rachel talks about how for her post-doc at Yale she wanted to look into the biology of personality, but was told that it was a “dumb idea” for post-doc research. [00:22:06] Dawn asks about the paradox uncovered by Dr. Giller’s research into Vietnam veterans showing low cortisol levels when stress is supposed to be associated with elevated cortisol levels. Dawn goes on to ask how this finding led Rachel to interview Holocaust survivors in her hometown of Cleveland. [00:24:43] Rachel tells the story of when she talked to a group of Holocaust survivors, a woman came up to her and said: You know, Dr. Yehuda, we don’t have VA centers like your veterans do. [00:26:20] Ken asks about the program Rachel set up to help Holocaust survivors. [00:27:20] Dawn points out that in 2016 Rachel published the results of a study looking at the genes of 32 Jewish women and men. She and her colleagues at Mount Sinai studied Holocaust survivors who either had been interned in Nazi concentration camps during World War II or had witnessed or experienced torture. Rachel also looked at the genes of 22 children who were born to the Holocaust survivors after the war. Rachel discusses how the changes in the DNA of Holocaust survivors were in a way passed down to their offspring. [00:29:13] Rachel discusses the necessary caution we should take regarding our understanding of mechanisms and how effects get from one place to another, or from the experience of one generation into the biology of the next, because we simply don’t have sufficient human studies that can truly pinpoint what truly causes the effects we see. [00:32:06] Ken asks about Rachel’s realization that past effects could transform not only the narrative of a person’s life but also their physiology. [00:33:59] Dawn describes Rachel’s 2005 study with woman who were pregnant in the World Trade Center during 9/11, which showed, along with other studies, that children of traumatized parents are at risk of having similar problems as their parents due to changes occurring in the biology of the parents as a result of trauma exposure. Dawns asks about the process of epigenetic changes being transmitted to offspring, which has become known as “intergenerational transmission.” [00:36:27] Ken asks if cortisol is uniformly low, or if there is substantial variation from person to person, since one often hears of elevated cortisol levels in first responders and military populations. [00:38:43] Ken asks Rachel how she ended up at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. [00:39:40] Ken asks about Rachel’s role as the founder and director of the Division of Traumatic Stress Studies at Mount Sinai. [00:41:20] Dawn asks Rachel to describe what happens inside a person’s body when they find themselves in a stressful situation. [00:42:47] Dawn mentions that in psychiatry and mental health, symptoms of trauma are treated as psychological, but that Rachel is finding that these problems of trauma also correlate to people having physical problems. [00:44:02] Rachel talks about her role as the Director of the Mental Health Patient Care Center at James J. Peters Veterans Affairs Medical Center in the Bronx, which she has inhabited since 2009. [00:44:58] Rachel is asked to talk about how there are only a few approved pharmacological treatments for PTSD, and no approved medications to enhance resilience. [00:46:38] Ken asks about a study Rachel published in 2013 which indicated that effective psychotherapy can be thought of as a form of “environmental regulation” which is able alter a person’s epigenetic state. [00:49:36] Ken asks how Rachel thinks the discovery of the epigenetic inheritance of trauma could change the way we approach and treat chronic health conditions, and if it is possible that much of what we are experiencing in terms of physical and mental illness as a society at large could be manifestations of trauma that has been caused by changes to epigenetic memory. [00:51:09] Rachel describes her excitement about MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, an interest she is collaborating on with Dr. Dave Rabin, who was interviewed on STEM-Talk episode 99. [00:52:14] Dawn refers the MDMA study that Rachel and others are collaborating on with Dave, and how this study has started its phase III trial with the FDA. Rachel gives an overview of what is going on with this study and how MDMA could be licensed and become a medicine. [00:56:09] Ken asks Rachel about her quote where she said in an interview, “My career has been enhanced by the fact that early on nobody believed in PTSD. Well, now, I almost think we’ve been a victim of our own success in many ways because I think we’ve ended up really pathologizing it to a large extent.” [00:58:37] Ken comments on how he relates to Rachel, in that his early career saw him also studying something believed to be impossible, AI, and that things have now been reversed and the power of AI is often overestimated. [00:59:45] Rachel explains that she is thankful to have become a scientist, even though she enjoyed philosophy in her youth, but that if she could no longer be a scientist for some reason, she would want to become a musician. [01:00:15] “Dawn mentions that Rachel has some experience appearing on stage as a singer, such as when she performed at the Meeting of the International Society of Psychoneuroendocrinology with colleagues Thomas Neylan  and David Spiegel (interviewed on STEM-Talk episode 45).  The song Rachel sang was titled “The Grant Song,”  Dawn closes the interview asking Rachel if she wrote the humorous lyrics. Rachel Yehuda bio Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio