STEM-Talk

Today’s interview features Dr. Peter Pirolli, a colleague and senior research scientist here at IHMC since 2017.  He previously was a fellow at the Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) and is known for his research into human information interaction. Peter’s work on information foraging theory led to his book “Information Foraging Theory: Adaptive Interaction with Information.” Peter received his doctorate in cognitive psychology from Carnegie Mellon University in 1985 and throughout his career his research has involved a mix of cognitive science, artificial intelligence, and human-computer interaction. His current interests include disruptive mobile-health technologies for precision behavioral medicine to support healthy behavior. Right now, Peter is working closely with IHMC’s Chief Science Officer Tim Broderick on a DARPA project that Tim discussed in his recent STEM-Talk interview, episode 112. Peter also talks about the project and the work that he, Tim and others at IHMC are doing to increase the biologic aptitude of elite warfighters. In today’s interview, Peter also discusses his role as the principal investigator of a project that the National Science Foundation recently awarded to IHMC. Peter and his colleagues will be working on improving epidemiological models that will be able to more accurately forecast the rate of infections and deaths related to COVID-19. Show notes: [00:02:42] Dawn opens the interview by quizzing Peter about how he took up surfing at the age of 40. [00:05:48] Ken mentions that Peter grew up in Canada, but that his father, who is Italian, decided to move the family to Italy when Peter was 8 years old. Peter discusses what that was like. [00:08:37] Dawn mentions that Peter liked to go camping and canoeing as a kid, and developed a love for astronomy. Dawn asks if it is true that Peter used to keep NASA scrapbooks. [00:10:52] Peter tells the story of the role his mother played in his decision to go to Trent University in Ontario. [00:12:45] Dawn asks why Peter decided to major in psychology and anthropology despite his childhood fascination with astronomy. [00:14:47] Dawn asks what attracted Peter to Pittsburg and Carnegie Mellon University for graduate school. [00:16:12] Ken mentions that at Carnegie Mellon, Peter had the opportunity to meet and work with Herb Simon and Alan Newell, who back in the 1950s were the early pioneers of artificial intelligence. They won the Turing Award in 1975 for their contributions to artificial intelligence and the psychology of human cognition. Ken goes on to mention that Simon also won the Nobel Prize in Economics in 1978.  Ken asks how Peter, with a background in psychology and anthropology, got to work with these pioneers of the field of AI. [00:17:59] Ken mentions that one of his favorite works from Simon and Newell was their physical symbols concept and the papers that arose from that. [00:19:54] Ken mentions that Simon and Newell were interested in developing computational models that could mimic and simulate what the human mind was doing. In addition to AI, they also conducted research that looked at information processing, decision-making, problem-solving, organization theory and complex systems. Ken asks Peter how working with these pioneers influence his later research and career. [00:22:57] Ken asks Peter to elaborate on the concept that Simon introduced known as “satisficing.” It’s a concept credited with revolutionizing economics by introducing the idea of “bounded rationality” where people have limited time and resources with which to gather data to draw their conclusions, as opposed to the “rational man” concept which assumes that a person making a decision uses all conceivably relevant information to inform their decisions. [00:25:54] Dawn mentions that in Peter’s time at CMU, he became interested in building artificial intelligence systems to tutor people one on one. Peter elaborates on this work and explains how it led him to travel across the country to work in Berkeley, California. [00:28:42] Ken mentions that Peter is particularly well-known for developing the concept of “information foraging” with Stuart Card in the late 1990’s. The concept was inspired by animal behavior theories and how animals forage for food. [00:33:42] Dawn explains that Peter’s work on information foraging led him to write his book “Information Foraging Theory: Adaptive Interaction with Information.” Dawn goes on to ask Peter about the concept of “high information scent” and what the significance of that is. [00:36:35] Dawn asks Peter to give an overview of his book which is aimed at an interdisciplinary audience. [00:39:10] Ken asks about Peter’s concept of “cooperative information foraging.” [00:41:33] Dawn mentions that the emergence of smartphones as a ubiquitous device led Peter to become interested in the possibilities of using them to support behavioral change in people. Dawn asks Peter to discuss the research he is conducting on ways to use smartphones to support health and lifestyle changes as well as alter habits. [00:44:28] Dawn shares her thoughts about how it is more effective to do this sort of research in the real world rather than studying people in a laboratory environment. [00:45:46] Dawn then mentions that one of the primary reasons that scientists study people in a lab is to control outside variables that could potentially influence or bias outcomes. She asks Peter how he studies people in the field and integrates these outside variables in his analysis. [00:47:19] Ken mentions that after knowing Peter for decades and admiring his work, Ken was able to convince Peter to join IHMC in 2017 as a senior research scientist. Peter explains what attracted him to IHMC. [00:50:17] Dawn mentions that Tim Broderick, who is the chief science officer here at IHMC, was just on STEM-Talk and discussed the interdisciplinary research team that he has put together for the Peerless Operator Biologic Aptitude project, otherwise known as PEERLESS. Dawn mentions that Peter is a key player in PEERLESS, which is a project designed to increase the biologic aptitude of warfighters so that they can increase their adaptability and resilience in extreme conditions. Peter discusses the project as well as his role in it. [00:54:09] Ken mentions that Peter became the principal investigator of a project related to COVID-19 that was just recently awarded to IHMC by the National Science Foundation. Ken asks Peter about the project, which will be working on improving epidemiological models that forecast the rate of infections and deaths related to COVID-19. [00:59:12] Dawn mentions that she has heard Peter talk about his belief that his interdisciplinary background is responsible for the productivity and success he has had throughout his career. Dawn asks Peter to talk about the importance of an interdisciplinary background in an academic world that insists on specialization. [01:02:17] Ken asks Peter to give his advice for young scientists currently attending college. [01:04:39] Peter tells the story of how he almost drowned as a result of hypothermia while surfing. [01:09:43] Ken asks about the quote Peter has on his website from Cormac McCarthy’s book “the road.” [01:13:46] Dawn mentions that she understands Peter has recently been reading William Gibson’s books and asks if Peter believes that the idea of uploading our minds to the cloud is possible or just science fiction. [01:15:17] Dawn closes the interview mentioning a photo on Peter’s website of him on a paddleboard with his dog Jake, and asks if Jake enjoys paddle-boarding as much as he looks like he does in the photo.

Our guest today is Dr. Tim Broderick, the chief science officer here at IHMC. Tim is a surgeon and biomedical scientist who joined IHMC last year. Tim has had a fascinating career as a researcher, surgeon and aquanaut. He is well-known as a pioneer in laparoscopic, robotic and telerobotic surgery. He also has led multiple ground, flight and undersea-based biomedical research projects. As a result, he is an honorary NASA flight surgeon and a NOAA undersea saturation diver. Tim spent four years as a DARPA program manager where he conceived and established five high-impact biotechnology projects that included revolutionary programs focused on precision diagnosis and treatment of military-relevant diseases and injuries. Over the years, he  has developed a substantial portfolio of cutting-edge Department of Defense research. In today’s interview, Tim gives an  overview of a fascinating project, called Peerless Operator Biologic Aptitude, which he and his colleagues at IHMC are currently working on. Show notes: [00:03:09] Dawn opens the interview asking Tim about growing up in in Cincinnati and going to Cincinnati Reds games in the 1970s with his family. [00:04:59] Ken asks if growing up in the Apollo era and witnessing the moon landing as a child influenced his interest in science and space. [00:06:16] Tim recounts a story about his father saving someone’s life at church when Tim was a child and how that had a profound impact on him. [00:07:13] Tim tells another story from his college days when he saved a man who nearly had his arm chopped off by a machete. [00:11:22] Dawn asks if it is true that as a teenager Tim would regularly dress up as Scooby-Doo. {00:13:39] Dawn asks if Tim always knew he wanted to be a doctor since he grew up in a family full of doctors. [00:15:21] Ken asks why Tim decided to attend Xavier University in Cincinnati. [00:16:41] Dawn mentions that she has rarely heard of someone heading off to college with the idea of double majoring in chemistry and computer science, and asks how that came about. [00:21:17] Dawn mentions that Tim graduated in four years and in 1986 decided to stay in town for medical school at the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine. Dawn asks what drew him there. [00:22:58] Ken asks if Tim knew he wanted to become a surgeon when he started med school. [00:26:37] Dawn asks what lead Tim to go to Richmond, Virginia, for his residency as a surgical resident at the Medical College of Virginia. [00:28:23] Dawn asks about how Tim’s interest in minimally invasive surgery during his residency, which led to him becoming the director of surgical research at VCU’s Minimally Invasive Surgery Center. [00:29:32] Ken mentions that while Tim was working at VCU he became a consulting surgeon for telemedicine and robotics for the NASA Medical Informatics Technology Applications Consortium. Ken asks what that work entailed. [00:32:32] Ken asks about Tim’s early work in laparoscopic robotic and telerobotic surgery. [00:38:00] Ken asks about how Tim’s experience in remote surgery for astronauts led him to become an aquanaut and a crew member for NASA’s NEEMO 9. [00:40:24] Dawn mentions that it was Tim’s support that was one of the reasons that Dawn had the chance to join NEEMO as a crew member. She goes on to mention that Tim logged time underwater as a NEEMO aquanaut when he returned to the project several years after NEEMO 9 for NEEMO 12. Tim describes what his research was focused on for that mission. [00:43:33] Dawn notes the similarities between an operational environment such as NEEMO, spaceflight and the operating room. Dawn asks if Tim’s experiences in the operating room crossed over into his work on the NEEMO mission. [00:45:08] Tim shares some of his favorite memories from his time underwater with NEEMO. [00:49:48] Dawn mentions that beginning in the year 2003, Tim spent seven years as a senior scientist and trauma portfolio manager for the US Army Medical Research and Material Command Telemedicine and Advanced Technology Research Center. Tim describes the work he did during this period. [00:50:49] Dawn asks about Tim’s time as a program manager for DARPA, specifically about his development of biocompatible nanoplatforms that enabled in vivo diagnostics. [00:55:55] Ken ask about Tim’s development of modular therapeutic nanotechnologies that permit flexible targeting of tissues for improved treatment of diseases such as antibiotic resistant bacterial infections and traumatic brain injury. [00:59:29] Dawn asks how Tim ended up becoming the chief science officer at the Wright State Research Institute after his work at DARPA. [01:00:17] Dawn mentions that what she likes most about Tim’s work is its focus on direct development of solutions for the end-user, similar to what is done at IHMC. Dawn asks how this type of work differs from basic science, and what drew Tim to this sort of research. [01:03:10] Ken mentions that prior to joining IHMC, Tim collaborated with IHMC on a project called PHITE for short. Tim expands on this multi-institutional effort and explains its goals and methods. [01:06:30] Ken talks about how last year Tim came to IHMC as chief science officer and a senior research scientist. [01:09:01] Dawn explains that Tim has assembled an interdisciplinary research team at IHMC to develop science and technology with the aim of raising the performance of elite warfighters in roles such as special operations and fighter pilots. She asks about a project called Peerless Operator Biological Aptitude, or PEERLESS for short. Tim discusses how this project is being designed to increase the biological aptitude of warfighters so that they can increase their adaptability and resilience in extreme conditions. [01:13:43] Ken mentions that another important aim of PEERLESS is to develop science and technology that might contribute to extending the career of warfighters in the special-operations community, and asks Tim to elaborate on this concept. [01:15:30] Tim talks about the stellar team he has put together including not only IHMC researchers but other organizations as well. [01:18:20] Tim explains that when he wants to take some time to get away, he likes to spend time at the beach with his family. [01:18:54] Dawn ends the interview mentioning that Tim also enjoys listening to classical music and asks if it is true that he has three daughters who play the violin. Links: Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Tim Broderick bio Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio  

Today we have the second of our two-part interview with Dr. Tommy Wood. Ken and Dawn talk to Tommy about his ongoing research into lifestyle approaches that can improve people’s health span, lifespan and physical performance. Tommy also talks about the physiological and metabolic responses to brain injury and how these injuries can have long-term effects on brain health. In part one of our interview, episode 110, Tommy shared his thoughts on the research he has done on the importance of metabolic health as a way to for people to protect themselves from COVID-19. Tommy also talked about his work on developing accessible methods to track human health and longevity and his research on ways to increase the resilience of developing brains. Tommy is a UK-trained physician who is also a colleague of ours here at IHMC. In addition to being a research assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington  in the division of neonatology, Tommy occasionally spends time at IHMC as a visiting research assistant. For a more detailed explanation of Tommy’s background, check out the introduction to part one of our interview, episode 110. We also recommend checking out Tommy’s earlier appearances on STEM-Talk, episodes 47 and 48. Show notes: [00:02:50] Dawn continues our interview with Tommy asking why some people refer to Alzheimer’s as type-3 diabetes. [00:05:00] Dawn refers to a chart that Tommy incorporated into his IHMC lecture in February of this year, which was part of a paper that showed how glucose responds with age. Dawn asks Tommy to walk listeners through what the chart details. [00:06:38] Dawn asks if Tommy agrees with Art De Vany, who in his most recent appearance on STEM-Talk, said that insulin resistance is associated with nearly every major disease that people worry about today. [00:07:38] Tommy talks about the mean amplitude of glycemic excursions and how this is the best predictor of cognitive functions. [00:09:31] Dawn asks about the waffle/fast-food study, and what the results of that paper mean for the effect of the modern American diet on health and cognitive ability. [00:11:00] Dawn asks about the effects of stress on memory and mood. [00:13:39] Dawn posits that we see many a public-service announcement about the dangers of smoking and alcohol consumption, and asks if the case could be made that we should also have public service announcements about the dangers of high blood sugar, as it is even more of a public-health issue than smoking and alcohol consumption. [00:15:42] Tommy transitions to talking about the importance of sleep in regards to brain health. [00:17:01] Ken mentions that in response to the common advice of getting eight hours of sleep, Tommy has made the point that perhaps more important than the number of hours is the quality of those hours of sleep. [00:20:15] Dawn asks Tommy about the use of Tylenol PM, or Ambien before bed for those people who have difficulty getting to, or staying, asleep. [00:22:07] Ken asks if it is true that muscle mass and body composition are exceptionally important in regards to brain robusticity. [00:24:43] Ken asks about Tommy’s favorite paper, “1,026 Experimental Treatments in Acute Stroke,” and why he loves this paper so much. [00:27:31] Tommy gives an overview of what happens as a result of an acute brain injury across the lifespan. [00:29:35] Tommy discusses Creatine, which is a compound derived from amino acids that has been shown to be effective in treating brain injuries. [00:32:56] Dawn asks Tommy what he has learned in terms of the overall therapeutic effects of ketones. [00:40:20] Dawn asks what would be one question that Tommy wishes health experts contemplated more often, in terms of health span, and what would be his answer to said question. [00:42:35] Dawn mentions that Tommy has done a lot of work helping individuals overcome chronic health conditions, and has thought about ways to scale these processes using digital means. Tommy gives advice to people seeking to develop scalable solutions designed to engineer sustained health. [00:45:33] Ken mentions that Tommy espouses an “ancestral” approach to supporting health, referring to the diet and lifestyle of our Paleolithic ancestors, and the influence that geography had on these factors for various populations of ancient people. Ken asks if there is reason to think that genetics influence the relative importance of animal foods and plant foods for brain health. [00:49:30] Dawn asks if the effects that animal husbandry has on climate change, which can contribute negatively on our health, outweigh the benefits that consuming animal products have for our health. [00:52:42] Dawn asks if there are any plant foods that support our brain health. [00:57:05] In regards to pro-longevity pharmaceuticals, which have not been very fruitful, Dawn asks if Tommy thinks that there are other factors regarding diet and lifestyle that can boost the healthspan more, and that people should be paying closer attention to, rather than waiting for a drug to extend their longevity. [01:00:53] Ken asks if Tommy has changed his thinking with respect to lifestyle determinants of health since his first appearance on STEM-Talk. [01:02:54] Ken brings up that Tommy often talks about the fact that the brain is capable of repairing itself and even growing as we age, but in order to do this it requires stimulation. Ken asks what are the best ways for people to stimulate their brains. [01:05:27] Dawn asks Tommy to explain why learning to walk is, cognitively speaking, more difficult than learning biochemistry, and how this relates to the demand-driven decline theory, as well as the grandmother hypothesis. [01:09:28] Dawn asks if Tommy is on his way to becoming a barbecue master, given his wife’s praises about his cooking. [01:10:38] Ken asks if Tommy ever craves fish and chips. [01:11:52] Dawn asks how Elizabeth is doing, now that she and Tommy share a home with two boxers. [01:14:05] Dawn mentions that a little birdy told us that in Tommy’s medical school yearbook, each person was assigned with a fictional disease, and that Tommy’s was the acronym SHHH. Dawn asks what SHHH stands for and if Tommy has changed at all since then. Links: Tommy Wood bio Tommy Wood Researchgate bio Two new papers by Tommy Wood: Variability and sex-dependence of hypothermic neuroprotection in a rat model of neonatal hypoxic–ischaemic brain injury The Future of Shift Work: Circadian Biology Meets Personalised Medicine and Behavioural Science Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio  

Dr. Tommy Wood is a UK-trained physician who is making his third appearance on STEM-Talk. Earlier this year before the COVID-19 outbreak, Tommy gave a well-attended lecture at IHMC about the latest research on building and preserving brain health across people’s lifespans. The lecture was so popular we invited Tommy to join us for another STEM-Talk interview. Tommy is a research assistant professor of pediatrics in the University of Washington Division of Neonatology. He was our guest on episodes 47 and 48 of STEM-Talk. Tommy received his undergraduate degree in biochemistry from the University of Cambridge and a medical degree from the University of Oxford. In addition to working with newborn infants who have brain injuries, Tommy also develops performance optimization strategies for athletes such as Formula 1 racecar drivers and Olympians. As in our first STEM-Talk interview with Tommy, our conversation was so long and wide-ranging that we have divided it into two parts. In today’s episode, we talk to Tommy about the importance of metabolic health, especially as a way to protect ourselves from COVID-19. We touch on Tommy’s work at developing accessible methods to track human health and longevity, and also his research an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington where he studies ways to increase the resilience of developing brains. In part two of our interview, we talk to Tommy about his continuing research into lifestyle approaches to improve health span and lifespan and physical performance. We also have a fascinating discussion about the physiological and metabolic responses to brain injury and their long-term effects on brain health.  Show notes:  [00:05:15] Dawn asks about an article Tommy and a colleague recently wrote, in which Tommy points out that it is becoming increasingly clear that underlying conditions associated with suboptimal metabolic health appear to be associated with poor outcomes in patients with COVID-19. Considering the nature of these underlying conditions, such as obesity and hypertension, he argues that lifestyle-based approaches to protecting ourselves from COVID-19 are likely to be one of our best tools in addressing this ongoing pandemic as well as future pandemics. Tommy summarizes his key points from the article. [00:09:38] Dawn mentions that when Tommy was last interviewed on STEM-Talk, he had just become a senior fellow at the University of Washington and was in the process of moving permanently to the U.S. She goes on to mention that when she asked Tommy what brought him to the states, he said “a girl,” who he ended up marrying. The girl turned out to be Elizabeth Nance who was interviewed on episode 71 of STEM-Talk. Dawn asks how Elizabeth is doing. [00:10:51] Tommy gives an overview of his work as a research assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington in the division of neonatology, where his focus is on ways to increase the resilience of developing brains and also ways to treat neonatal brain injuries. [00:12:45] Dawn explains that Tommy gives a disclaimer at the beginning of his talks that “many of my best ideas are stolen.” She asks what are his best sources for ideas. [00:14:42] Dawn mentions that when Elizabeth was on STEM-Talk, she mentioned that Tommy was constantly reading paper after paper, to the point that it is dizzying to look at Tommy’s computer screen. Tommy describes his research methods and how he goes about collecting material. [00:16:51] Ken mentions that Tommy’s current research interests include the physiological and metabolic responses to brain injury and their long-term effects on brain health. Ken asks about this as well as Tommy’s work to develop easily accessible methods to track human health, performance, and longevity. [00:18:59] Dawn asks why even as a neonatal neuroscientist, Tommy is still interested in working with football players, Formula 1 drivers, and Alzheimer’s patients. Dawn goes on to say that while most neuroscientists specialize in one of the populations, Tommy prefers to look at the brain from cradle to the grave. [00:21:44] Tommy explains how he uses Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs to explain to people what their brain needs. [00:23:48] Dawn mentions that Tommy finds recent brain-age studies to be particularly fascinating because they are just now beginning to show how fetal/neonatal exposures effect adult aging. [00:26:01] Tommy explains the energy demands of the developing brain, and why it takes up 75% of an infant’s metabolic rate. [00:27:12] Dawn mentions that Tommy published a paper last year about the potential use of exogenous ketones for neonatal neuroprotection, which starts with the idea of ketones being essential for the newborn brains. [00:28:53] Ken notes that ketone bodies play a major role in the central nervous system during myelination, not only as a source of energy, but a source of carbon for lipid biosynthesis. Tommy explains the significance of this function of ketone bodies. [00:30:47] Ken asks about unsaturated fats, and their role in brain development. [00:32:14] Dawn asks about the significance of the mother’s diet during infant development, mentioning the work of the late Sheilla Innis, a researcher and proponent of the nutritional needs of babies, children, and expectant mothers. [00:34:13] Dawn mention’s that linoleic acid is a polyunsaturated omega 6 acid that is one of two essential fatty acids for humans. She goes on to explain that since the early ‘60s, the amount of linolenic acid in Americans has increased dramatically, and that it has also has increased dramatically in women’s breastmilk. She asks if this is a problem. [00:36:54] Ken mentions that in the lecture Tommy gave at IHMC, he talked about how people may be suffering from a deluge of processed oils that have become staples of our modern diet. Ken asks Tommy to clarify this and explain the issue with processed oils, and what his advice is on how to deal with that issue. [00:41:11] Dawn explains that Docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, is a type of omega-3 fat. Since our bodies can only make a small amount of DHA, we need to consume it directly from food or a supplement. There have been studies that have shown women who consume 600 to 800 mg of DHA daily during pregnancy reduced their risk of early preterm birth. Dawn asks about the risks low DHA in an expectant mother and if it raises a mother’s risk for a preterm birth. [00:43:07] Dawn mentions that reducing preterm birth is critically important because depending on how prematurely a child is born, they have about a 30% to 50% chance of dying or having a severe disability. She asks what recommendations Tommy has for expectant mothers in terms of reducing premature births. [00:45:30] Dawn asks about something Tommy said in his recent lecture at IHMC, where he quoted Ken as saying, “Humans have, roughly since agriculture, become dumber, weaker, and more frail.” [00:47:35] Ken asks Tommy, given the rise of Alzheimer’s and dementia, and the prevalence of the modern western lifestyle, how does one prevent the brain from declining over time. [00:49:48] Tommy gives an overview of the Amyloid-beta precursor protein, which is a large membrane protein that normally plays an essential role in neural growth and repair. Later in life, however, Amyloid-B can become corrupted and can destroy nerve cells, which leads to the loss of thought and memory in people with Alzheimer’s disease. [00:51:06] Tommy explains why despite the billions spent by the pharmaceutical industry on trials aimed at targeting Amyloid-beta, there have been no promising results. [00:54:01] Dawn mentions that Tommy and his wife wrote a recent paper where they argued that Amyloid-B is an epiphenomenon of neuronal stress. Dawn asks Tommy to discuss this paper and their conclusions. [00:55:30] Ken asks about the most common neuronal stressors, including inflammation from sleep deprivation. Tommy gives a list of the common stressors a person needs to pay attention to for optimal brain health. [00:57:53] Tommy discusses the importance and function of the microglia, better known as the immune system of the brain. [00:59:26] Dawn mentions that inflammation is associated with almost all neurological disorders. She asks Tommy to discuss this as well as the role of fatty acids in inflammatory signaling. [01:02:13] Tommy explains the difference between acute and chronic inflammation. [01:03:41] Tommy talks about his research into how modulating microglia can reduce oxidative stress. [01:06:18] Ken mentions that the problem with modulating the microglia is that they have long memories. He goes on to ask what the solution is to this problem and how does one reduce microglial activation. [01:08:50] Dawn mentions our interview with Francisco Gonzalez Lima, where the drug methylene blue was discussed. She goes on to mention that she and Tommy have been discussing the potential use of this drug in preventing cognitive decline in those working at high altitudes. She asks Tommy about the potential use of methylene blue as a protection against acute brain stress or injury. [01:11:36] Ken ends part one of our interview with Tommy by mentioning everyone agrees that maintaining insulin sensitivity is critically important, but that here in the U.S., we’re not doing a good job of that, with about 82% of Americans having some kind of metabolic disease. Tommy explains why this is such a major health issue.

Today’s guest is Robb Wolf, who is making his third appearance on STEM-Talk. He has a new book, which is being released today, the same day as our interview with Robb goes live. His new book, “Sacred Cow: Why Well Raised Meat Is Good For You and Good For The Planet,” takes a critical look at the assumptions and also the misinformation about meat and provides contrarian views that are science-based showing that meat and animal fat are essential for our bodies. Robb is a former research biochemist who is also the  author of two other New York Times bestsellers, “The Paleo Solution” and “Wired to Eat.” Robb’s career includes a stint as a review editor of the Journal of Nutrition and Metabolism,  a consulting role for the Naval Special Warfare Resiliency Program,  and membership on the board of directors and advisors for Specialty Health, Inc. He also is on the board of the Chickasaw Nation’s Unconquered Life Initiative and works with a number of innovative startups with the focus on health and sustainability. In today’s interview, Robb talks about his move from Reno, Nevada, to the hill country of Texas, the science that supports the importance of meat and fat in a healthy diet, his transition to a ketogenic diet, and how improving our metabolic health is one of the most important things we can do to protect ourselves against COVID-19. [00:03:52] Ken opens the interview mentioning that Robb is making his third appearance on STEM-Talk. He was a guest on episode 27 of STEM-Talk, and also helped Ken co-host an interview with Allan Savory, episode 40. Ken then asks Robb about his move from Reno to the hill country of Texas. [00:05:57] Dawn mentions that Robb has started a new podcast since his last appearance on STEM-Talk. The new podcast is The Healthy Rebellion Radio, and replaces the Paleo Solution. Dawn explains that this new show follows a Q&A format, and features Robb and his wife, Nicki Violetti, answering listener questions. Dawn asks what prompted Robb and Nicki and to start this new podcast. [00:08:12] Dawn asks for an update on a project Robb discussed on episode 27 called the Reno Risk Assessment project, which was a program of diet and lifestyle changes that he and Nicki developed to improve health and performance of police and fire departments. [00:14:07] Dawn asks about the motivations and origins of Robb’s work with the Chickasaw Nation and its “Unconquered Life” project. [00:18:31] Dawn asks Robb about his comments that improving metabolic health is one of the most important things a person can do to protect themselves during the COVID-19 pandemic. [00:20:52] Dawn mentions that researchers at the University of North Carolina published a paper last year that showed only 12% of Americans have optimal metabolic health. The report pointed out that those with poor metabolic health included many people of normal weight. Dawn follows up by asking Robb if he also has found this to be true in his work with people. [00:24:09] Ken asks for Robb’s take on BMI, which can often be misleading. [00:25:21] Dawn asks if Robb’s personal diet has evolved since his previous appearance on STEM-Talk. [00:33:16] Ken mention’s that Robb’s new book, which is scheduled to come out the same day as this episode goes live, is titled, “Sacred Cow.” Ken goes on to say that Robb and his co-author, dietician Diana Rogers, look at the quandaries we face in raising and eating animals. The book  particularly focuses on cows, which Robb describes as not only the largest of our farmed animals, but also the most maligned. Ken begins the discussion of the book by asking Rob why he decided to take on the vegans and the topic of eating animals. [00:38:22] Dawn asks Robb for his take on one of the two major arguments against the consumption of animal products: that eating foods such as beef and chicken and cheese are bad for our health, and what the true science is behind these two claims. [00:42:58] Dawn asks what happens when people replace meat and dense protein sources with plant-based alternatives like grains, legumes, peas, nuts and the like. [00:45:33] Robb discusses the White Oak Pastures Life Cycle Analysis on the beef they raise and how it compares to the Beyond Burger, in terms of net carbon emissions, and other environmental factors. [00:49:56] Dawn mentions that an international team led by Bradley Johnston, an epidemiologist at Dalhousie University, conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis and found very weak evidence that eating red meat is a health risk. Dawn goes on to mention that these authors received significant backlash for their scientific findings as well as attacks  that were both personal and political and motivated more by emotional entrenched beliefs than by science. Dawn asks Robb for his opinion on the study as well as the backlash the authors received. [00:54:45] Ken mentions that the way the authors of this study have been savaged for publishing their findings reminds him of John Ioannidis, who was the guest on episode 77 of STEM-Talk. Ken mentions that Ioannidis argued that evidence-based medicine has been hijacked by researchers with vested interests and personal bias. Ken asks for Robb’s advice for people who are looking for the best information on what is right for their bodies, and how to avoid this sort of biased research. [00:58:21] Ken asks Robb to explain how he addresses the argument that beef supposedly is the most environmentally destructive food, and a serious threat to the environment, in his book. [01:05:42] Ken asks Robb about his analysis of Allan Savory’s work, who appeared on STEM-Talk, episode 40, who argued that increasing the number of livestock on grasslands, rather than fencing them off, is a way to stop desertification. [01:07:53] Dawn asks Robb about the argument that cattle husbandry is extremely water intensive. Robb discusses a study out of the Netherlands which shows that raising beef requires less water per pound than raising avocadoes or walnuts. [01:09:48] Ken mentions that the New York Times recently published an opinion piece titled, “The End of Meat is Here,” with the subtitle, “If you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you have to stop eating animals.” Robb gives a counterview on those claims. [01:12:57] Dawn mentions that Bill Gates, on his website, has a review he wrote of Vaclav Smils’ book, “Should We Eat Meat.” Gates writes that there are indeed environmental issues that need addressing in terms of raising livestock. Gates’ review, however, goes on to explain the many benefits to the poor and developing countries in regards to the introduction of meat into their diets. Robb gives his take on the constant drumbeat in the media for the elimination of meat from our diet despite data such as what is discussed in Gates’ review. [01:16:59] Ken asks Robb about his take on the PRIME Act, or the Processing Revival and Intrastate Meat Exemption Act. Ken explains that the current law requires processing of all beef, pork and lamb to be slaughtered and processed in USDA inspected facilities or state facilities, which are often hundreds of miles away from small farms and ranches. Whereas the PRIME Act would give ranchers and farmers another more local-based option for processing and marketing their meat, and also give local restaurants, grocery stores and other food-service establishments the ability to more affordably source local meat. [01:22:53] Dawn mentions that Robb is part of a team that has put together a  Sacred Cow website. The website focuses on the moral, environmental and nutritional issues we face in raising and eating animals, particularly the cow. Robb discusses the website and how people can order his book. [01:25:18] Dawn asks about the film Robb and his co-author, Diana, are working on, which is designed to be complimentary to the book. [01:26:05] Dawn asks how Robb and Diana met and what lead them to start working together. [01:29:08] Dawn asks Robb for his advice for people who decline eating meat for religious or other reasons that have nothing to do with the environment.  She asks Robb to talk abou optimizing and maintaining metabolic health if you’re a person who doesn’t eat meat. [01:30:59] Robb explains the 30-day challenge he gives readers in “Sacred Cow,” which helps people transition to a healthful and conscientious diet, as well as a way to support sustainable farms. [01:34:14] Ken asks if Robb senses that the mainstream medical community is opening up to the idea of ketosis and fasting as tools to help people lose weight and improve their health. [01:38:26] Dawn mentions that Robb and Nicki co-founded one of the first CrossFit affiliates in the country in 2004, where they worked a lot with people on their diet and exercise regimens. Dawn asks Robb to give an update on the gym. [01:39:13] Ken asks what Robb’s training looks like since many gyms are closed due to COVID-19. [01:42:51] Dawn closes the interview asking Robb if it’s true that he and Ken are working on a book together.

Because of the number of questions that keep pouring in, today we have another Ask Me Anything episode.  We also have been receiving requests to do more of these shows, so we plan to record more frequent AMA episodes in the future. If you have questions for Ken and Dawn, email them to STEM-Talk producer Randy Hammer at rhammer@ihmc.us. In today’s episode we touch a little bit on COVID-19, but most questions revolve around diet and sleep and brain health. Ken also explains the meaning behind IHMC’s name and Dawn shares why she tweaked her vegetarian lifestyle to now include fish in her diet. Plus, Ken weighs in on the dangers of AI, real and imagined. It’s a fun, wide-ranging episode. Enjoy! Show notes: [00:02:28] Dawn opens the AMA with a listener question for Ken about his thoughts on social distancing. [00:03:19] A listener asks Dawn about the long-term pulmonary effects for survivors of COVID-19, and how this will impact divers. [00:04:49] Dawn reads a listener question for Ken about the U.S. relationship with China in regards to drug manufacturing: “During your interview with Katherine Eban, you made a comment about how current events related to COVID-19 truly highlight the fault in our dependency on Chinese manufacturing for our pharmaceuticals. That was just a few months ago…Where do you see our relationship with China heading with respect to drug manufacturing in the future?” {00:06:54] Ken talks about the need for each individual to take responsibility for the pharmaceuticals they ingest and recommends listening to Katherine’s Eban’s STEM-Talk interview and checking out her website, which has a wealth of information about generic drugs. [00:07:19] A listener asks Dawn about her shift from strict vegetarianism to occasionally adding fish into her diet. The listener wonders if this came about as a result of some of the discussions on STEM-Talk, or if her decision was inspired by something else? [00:09:07] A listener asks Ken if he uses branch chain amino acids, and if so how? [00:11:52] Ken talks about how combining essential amino-acid supplementation with mechanical loading via resistance training is a powerful strategy to combat the age-related loss of muscle function and mass that often leads to sarcopenia in the older population. [00:14:45] Dawn poses a listener’s question to Ken about why nutritionists seem to almost unanimously tolerate intermittent fasting or time-restricted eating, but oppose the ketogenic diet. The listener goes on to ask if there is any difference between getting into ketosis through diet versus fasting. [00:17:30] A listener asks Ken, who was an early adopter of a low-carb ketogenic diet, how his understanding of low-carb and healthy diets has changed as research has progressed. [00:19:25] A listener talks about how their adoption of time-restricted eating has led to late-night binge eating. The listener asks if it is true that skipping breakfast makes it harder to suppress ghrelin, sometimes referred to as “the hunger hormone.” The listener is curious about this because so many STEM-Talk guests talk about how they skip breakfast. [00:22:45] A listener asks Dawn: “In your podcast with Francisco Gonzalez-Lima, you talked about the potential role of methylene blue in protecting individuals exposed to environmental hypoxia. Do you know of any studies that have looked at this potential application of methylene blue?” [00:26:05] A listener asks Ken about adding legumes back into one’s diet after losing weight through the ketogenic diet, and if the weight will return if legumes are reintroduced. [00:29:20] A listener asks how Ken came up with the name “Institute for Human and Machine Cognition,” and what all the name entails? [00:30:51] A listener asks Dawn about the replication of extreme environments in a lab setting when studying human performance in various extreme environments. [00:34:56] A listener asks Ken: “There was some recent news coverage about how tanks are being driven by artificial intelligence and how machine guns are being equipped with facial recognition software…As I listened to the interview that Dawn did with you a while back, you said you didn’t agree with Elon Musk’s rather dark vision of rogue robots going around killing people…I’m curious if your thoughts about weaponized robots and the dangers of AI have changed over the past couple of years. And what do you see as the future?” [00:37:14] In responding to a listener’s question about the best ways to improve a person’s mental health, Ken recommends throwing away your TV, limiting your time on social media, taking walks in forests, get better sleep, have more sex, and listen to STEM-Talk. He goes on to expand on some of these ideas. [00:38:27] A listener asks if Ken has ever used the Ooler sleep device, and if so, what does he think of it? [00:39:32] Dawn answers a listener’s question about what her research into the brain’s lymphatic system in extreme environments is yielding. [00:41:54] A listener asks Ken to elaborate on a speech he gave in which he said people should strive to be better animals. Ken explains what he meant and adds that people should also recognize and embrace that we are all part of the animal kingdom. [00:42:56] A listener mentions that there are several activity and sleep-tracking devices in the form of a ring, and that during the Peter Attia episode, Ken and Peter discussed the Oura ring and another ring that Ken said he was evaluating. The listener asks about the results of that evaluation. [00:46:59] Ken asks Dawn if it’s true that you have better glymphatic function when you sleep on your side? [00:47:52] A listener asks how the collection of health-related data via smartphones and wearables will impact the diving community. The listener goes on to ask if Dawn sees the diving community moving toward collecting such physiological parameters to define such things as decompression. [00:50:14] Ken asks Dawn about underwater eye-tracking studies. [00:51:32] Dawn closes the AMA with a listener’s question about natural sleep aids to maintain healthy sleep during the COVID-19 crisis and the disruption of sleep schedules that many people are experiencing in quarantine. Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio  

Behavioral neuroscientist Dr. Francisco Gonzalez-Lima discusses the use of low-dose methylene blue and near-infrared light as therapies for cognitive disorders. Topics include mitochondrial respiration, cognitive benefits of interventions, historical origins of methylene blue, strategies for synergy, and conversations on neurodegeneration and cognitive enhancement.

Our guest today is Dr. Francisco Gonzalez-Lima, a professor in the department of psychology, pharmacology and toxicology and the department of psychiatry at The University of Texas at Austin. He also is a professor at the university’s Institute for Neuroscience. We covered so much ground in our discussion with Francisco that we have split his interview into two parts. Today’s interview focuses on Francisco’s fascinating background as a youth and Cuban expatriate as well as his early research into Alzheimer’s Disease and brain metabolic mapping. The second part of our interview, which follows in a few weeks, covers two interventions Francisco has been exploring with the aim of protecting people against neurodegeneration: low-dose methylene blue and the application of near-infrared light. Francisco describes himself as a behavioral neuroscientist. He and his colleagues at the Gonzalez-Lima Lab are recognized as world leaders for their research on the relationship between brain energy metabolism, memory and neurobehavioral disorders. Although he has spent most of his academic career at the University of Texas, Francisco has been a visiting neuroscientist in Germany, England, Canada and Spain, and has delivered more than 120 lectures around the world about his brain research. He also has contributed work to more than 300 scientific publications. Over the years, Francisco’s brain research has focused on transcranial lasers, memory enhancement, neuroprotection and neurocognitive disorders. Current research in the Gonzalez-Lima laboratory focuses on the beneficial neurocognitive and emotional effects of noninvasive human brain stimulation in healthy, aging and mentally ill populations. This research primarily uses transcranial infrared laser stimulation and multimodal imaging. Show notes: [00:03:23] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that Francisco was born in Cuba where his father worked as a veterinarian. Dawn asks how Francisco’s family ended up leaving Cuba for Costa Rica when he was only ten years old. [00:04:25] Ken asks if it is true that Francisco got into a lot of fights as a child. [00:05:19] Francisco talks about his time as a child accompanying his veterinarian father to take care of cattle. [00:06:46] Dawn asks about Francisco’s time in college, two years of which he spent in Venezuela, and how he became known as an anti-communist student leader on campus. [00:08:18] Francisco tells the story of how he ended up going to school at Tulane University. [00:09:13] Dawn mentions that because Francisco’s father was a veterinarian, Francisco went to Tulane with the intent of working with animals. But after watching a professor dissect a human brain in class one day, Francisco changed his major. [00:10:17] Ken asks Francisco what lead him to decide to get a bachelor’s degree in biology and psychology. [00:11:49] Dawn asks about Francisco’s work with Nobel Prize winner Dr. Andrew Schalley during Francisco’s last summer at Tulane. [00:12:56] Francisco explains how he ended up of the University of Puerto Rico getting his doctorate in anatomy and neurobiology. [00:14:28] Dawn asks Francisco how learning about electrophysiology in his doctoral studies had an impact on him. [00:15:22] Francisco tells an interesting story of his doctoral dissertation. [00:16:21] Dawn asks about Francisco’s work with Dr. Walter Stiehl and the papers the two of them published in the European Journal of Pharmacology. [00:17:19] Dawn mentions that in 1981 Francisco met Henning Scheich, a German professor who had done a study involving the newly developed 2-deoxyglucose autoradiographic method. Francisco talks about why this neuroimaging approach to brain research fascinated him and led him to propose an ambitious collaborative research project with Dr. Scheich. [00:18:27] Dawn asks Francisco to talk about the work he did with Dr. Scheich to develop the human FDG (fluorodeoxyglucose) neuroimaging method, the first functional brain imaging technique to be used in humans. [00:19:58] Ken asks Francisco to explain the difference between functional studies and imaging studies. [00:21:18] Dawn asks about how Francisco met a group of Texas professors at a conference in Madrid, which lead him to join the new College of Medicine at Texas A&M. [00:22:35] Dawn mentions that in 1991, the University of Texas at Austin recruited Francisco to join its new Institute for Neuroscience and the Department of Psychology. [00:23:32] Dawn asks about the research Francisco and his colleagues are doing in the Gonzalez-Lima lab. [00:24:11] Ken asks what Francisco means when he describes himself as a behavioral neuroscientist. [00:25:13] Dawn asks about Francisco’s work on the neuroimaging effects of Pavlovian conditioning. [00:27:45] Dawn asks about the work Francisco did on habituation and sensitization. [00:29:57] Ken mentions that the brain is designed to handle large amounts of communication and computation. He asks if Francisco can elaborate on this concept. [00:31:10] Ken asks Francisco to describe the redundant structures of the brain. [00:33:35] Dawn turns the discussion to Alzheimer’s Disease, mentioning we still don’t fully grasp how the brain works. [00:35:12] Dawn mentions that in 2001 Francisco published a paper titled “Energy Hypometabolism in Posterior Cingulate Cortex of Alzheimer’s Patients: Superficial Laminar Cytochrome Oxidase Associated with Disease Duration.” The main histochemical finding of this study was that the decreased ration or the gravity of Alzheimer’s Disease was not related to any of the other things that were commonly mentioned like amyloid or tau proteins. Francisco gives an overview of this study and its significance. [00:39:32] Ken asks if ketone uptake in the brain diminishes some cases of Alzheimer’s or TBI. [00:41:18] Ken mentions Steven Cunane’s STEM-Talk interview and the work he has done work using neuroimaging to see if it’s possible to replace the energy lost from the glucose deficit with exogenous ketones. [00:42:11] Ken asks about the early signs of Alzheimer’s Disease. [00:45:27] Ken asks about the vascular hypothesis of Alzheimer’s Disease. [00:48:16] Dawn mentions that in the past few years, there has been a lot of coverage in the media about Early Onset Alzheimer’s Disease. She goes on to say that Francisco has pointed out in past interviews that EOAD is a rare genetic disease that is causally different than the most common geriatric dementia that is mistakenly called Alzheimer’s or late onset AD. Francisco discusses how this confusion has been an obstacle in advancing research. [00:52:24] Dawn gives a preview of part two of our interview with Francisco, which will upload in a few weeks. Links: Francisco Gonzalez-Lima bio Gonzalez-Lima Lab Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage  Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio      

Our guest today is Dr. Arthur De Vany, who we interviewed three years ago on episode 30 of STEM-Talk. Art, who is perhaps best known as one of the founders of the Paleo movement, is the author of “The New Evolution Diet: What Our Paleolithic Ancestors Can Teach Us About Weight Loss, Fitness and Aging.” Art is a professor emeritus of economics at the University of California, Irvine. In our first interview, we talked to Art about his early research into the economics of the movie business and how he created mathematical and statistical models to precisely describe the motion-picture market. In today’s interview, Art talks to us about the new book he’s working on that’s tentatively titled, “The Youthful Brain—A Revolutionary Program to protect the Brain, Extend Youthfulness and Prevent Alzheimer’s Disease.” The book is a continuation of Art’s ongoing study of the human body and brain and offers his strategies for preventing brain deterioration and maintaining a healthy, lean body. Show notes: [00:03:13] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that it has been three years since Art’s first appearance on the podcast. She asks Art what it is about the modern Western lifestyle that sends so many people to an early grave. [00:05:42] Dawn asks about Art’s discovery that the world’s healthiest, long-living individuals typically have low insulin. [00:07:44] Ken mentions that Art is working on a new book that will look at brain-body signaling and provide strategies for preventing brain deterioration and maintaining a healthy lean body. Art talks about how we originally planned to write about aging, but that most aging research is bull and that nobody really understands what it is. He explains that in his mind aging is basically a directed random walk into entropy. [00:10:11] Ken asks about one of Art’s key points, that Alzheimer’s disease and many other diseases of neural degeneration and cognitive decline are largely metabolic diseases compounded by loss of muscle mass and stem-cell exhaustion. [00:13:09] Dawn asks about the evolution of the human brain, and how the most recent additions to the brain are the most dependent on glucose metabolism. [00:14:22] Dawn mentions that synapses are essential to neuronal function, as they are the means by which neurons communicate signals. She asks Art to expand on the comment he made in his recent lecture at IHMC stating that “synapses are forever young but in ever need of support and protection.” [00:16:29] Ken asks about the lactate shuttle hypothesis, which is based on the observation that lactate is formed and utilized continuously in diverse cells under both anaerobic and aerobic conditions. [00:18:51] Dawn mentions the role of mitochondria, and how when they are not working the way they should that cells and tissues of our body become starved for energy, forcing us to rely on anaerobic metabolism. This results in a number of issues. She asks Art what we can do to maintain healthy mitochondria over our lifespan. [00:21:25] Art gives advice for reprograming the metabolism of the aging brain. [00:22:35] Ken asks about mTOR from an evolutionary perspective and why people have so many concerns regarding its role in cancer and degenerative disease. [00:24:35] Art explains his view of aging as the “failure of a renewal program,” and why aging is not programmed. [00:26:35] Dawn mentions that she has heard that Art eats just two meals a day, an early breakfast and dinner, to create a long interval between meals so his body can maintain low-insulin signaling. She asks how this brings on the defensive and repair pathways. [00:28:52] Ken asks about Art’s exercise routine and why he prefers fasted exercise. [00:30:46] Dawn asks about the importance of sleep, if Art still takes melatonin to help with his sleep, and what advice he has for people in terms of getting good sleep. [00:32:56] Dawn mentions that Art has commented that physically and genetically we are built to run fast and climb trees, but given the state of the modern world she asks what is the best way to stay physically fit if we are not allowed to regularly do those things that we evolved to do. [00:35:47] Ken asks for Art’s thoughts on why we have seen the loss of mass in the human brain, particularly in the hippocampus. [00:41:44] Ken asks about the role of oxytocin in preserving brain mass. [00:43:02] Dawn points out that Art is 82 years old. If aging is indeed a random walk into entropy, she asks Art what he considers a reasonable expectation is in terms of human lifespan. [00:43:50] Dawn mentions that Art has in the past said that he was 78 years old when he first started thinking about aging.  Given that most people start having those thoughts in their 60s, she asks why it took him so long. [00:44:55] Ken closes the interview asking Art what advice he would give to his younger self. Links: Art De Vany Amazon page Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage  Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio

Today’s interview is with Katherine Eban, an investigative journalist who uncovered the widespread fraud that goes on overseas in the manufacturing of U.S. generic drugs. With the outbreak of the deadly coronavirus, which originated in China but is now spreading across the globe and United States, today’s interview is especially timely. Katherine’s recent book, “Bottle of Lies,” reveals that nearly 80 percent of the active ingredients of all brand-name and generic drugs as well as almost all of our antibiotics in the U.S. are made outside of the country, mostly in China and India. Today’s interview highlights the dangers Americans face in outsourcing the quality and safety of its brand-name and generic drugs to overseas manufacturers. Katherine is an investigative journalist who has written award-winning stories that range from pharmaceutical counterfeiting to gun trafficking to even coercive interrogations by the CIA. Her first book, “Dangerous Doses: A True Story of Cops, Counterfeiters and the Contamination of America’s Drug Supply,” was named one of the Best Books of 2005 by Kirkus Reviews. “Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom” is a New York Times bestseller that came out in 2019 and was named one of the top 100 notable books of 2019 by the Times. Show notes: [00:03:16] Dawn opens the interview mentioning Katherine’s appearance on Peter Attia’s podcast. [00:04:30] Ken asks how Katherine how she ended up living just three subway stops from where she grew up in Brooklyn. [00:05:01] Katherine talks about how despite her talent and interest in writing, she at one point joined the circus in high school and considered going to clown school after she graduated. [00:06:02] Dawn asks how Katherine ended up in Rhode Island to attend Brown University instead of going to Florida to attend the Ringling Brothers Clown College. [00:06:47] Katherine talks about her time at Brown University editing the school’s literary magazine. [00:07:24] Ken Asks about Katherine’s time at Oxford University as a Rhodes scholar. [00:08:37] Dawn asks how Katherine, a woman who holds a Master’s degree in 17th Century English Epic Civil War Poetry, became a journalist. [00:10:23] Dawn asks about Katherine’s first big story, which also happened to be her first story. [00:11:49] Dawn asks Catherine long she worked at the New York Times. [00:13:07] Katherine explains how she came to write her first book, “Dangerous Doses: A True Story of Cops, Counterfeiters and the Contamination of America’s Drug Supply.” [00:14:56] Dawn mentions that after the publishing of “Dangerous Doses,” Katherine spent a decade investigating the generic-drug industry, an investigation sparked by a phone call from a colleague who asked for her help. [00:16:17] Ken asks about the difference between a generic and brand-name drug, and what is involved in the process of reverse-engineering a drug. [00:17:43] Dawn asks about the series of interviews Katherine conducted with patients sharing their experiences with generic drugs, which led to a story she wrote for “Self” magazine in 2009. [00:20:15] Ken mentions that in the “Self” magazine article, Katherine wrote about Dr. Kesselheim, an instructor at Harvard Medical school who reviewed data from 47 clinical studies. He found no evidence that patients on brand-name cardiovascular drugs had outcomes superior to those on generics. Given this study is now 10 years old, Ken asks if anyone has revisited this analysis. [00:21:25] Katherine tells the story of her anonymous informant that contacted her about a month after the “Self” magazine article, who went by the pseudonym “4 Dollar Refill.” [00:22:38] Dawn mentions that over the following five years, Katherine wrote a series of articles about generic-drug quality, which culminated in a 10,000-word article titled “Dirty Medicine” published in Fortune Magazine in 2013. [00:24:03] Dawn mentions that a reason that generic drugs account for 90% of the drugs in the U.S. is that generics are so much cheaper than brand names. She goes on to ask about how in “Bottle of Lies” Katherine explains why the low cost of manufacturing in India and China has created issues for the American consumer. [00:25:08] Dawn asks about the Carnegie Fellowship Katherine received in the midst of working on “Bottle of Lies.” [00:26:42] Ken asks Katherine how many interviews she had to do for her book. [00:27:11] Katherine talks about how the plan to help Africa during the AIDS epidemic laid the groundwork for some of the corruption she laid out in “Bottle of Lies.” [00:29:14] Katherine tells the story of Harry Lever, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic, who started noticing his patients suffering from low platelet count after taking heparin, which raised his concerns, and led him to discover that heparin had been contaminated in China. [00:30:10] Ken asks what the average person can expect if they tell their pharmacist that they do not want the generic version of a drug that their doctor prescribed. [00:31:26] Dawn asks if this problem is being substantially driven by insurance companies. [00:31:56] Ken asks what it was that caused generic drugs to make up 90% of the drug supply today, when in 2009 they only made up 60%. [00:33:16] Dawn asks about Peter Baker, a young FDA investigator, who ended up in New Delhi looking into Indian drug manufacturers. [00:34:17] Ken asks about the obstacles Peter Baker faced. [00:36:47] Katherine explains what the protocol is when an FDA investigator finds contamination. [00:38:18] Dawn asks about Peter Baker’s investigation into the Wockhardt plant. [00:41:22] Ken asks Katherine to tell the story of Ranbaxy, India’s largest drug company. [00:44:27] Katherine how Dinesh Thakur became a whistleblower. [00:45:51] Ken asks what happened to Ranbaxy. [00:46:29] Katherine explains why Peter Baker eventually left the FDA despite the good work he was doing. [00:48:18] Dawn mentions that in light of Baker’s and other FDA investigators’ discoveries of fraud and corruption in China and India, stronger regulations are needed in order to protect consumers. She asks if Katherine has a sense of what direction the FDA is headed in that regard. [00:49:39] Ken asks if we should start producing more of our own drugs in the U.S. [00:50:30] Katherine explains the resource on her website titled “A Guide to Investigating Your Own Drugs.” [00:52:21] Dawn asks about Valisure, a mail-order pharmacy that tests every drug that they dispense to ensure quality. [00:54:18] Dawn mentions that Katherine was recently in India to do some talks and book signings, but that she had concerns about the reception because the Modi Government had put out a statement saying that it was going to take action against her book. [00:55:39] Ken asks if Katherine is working on any new projects at the moment. [00:56:13] Ken asks if Katherine is still in touch with Harry Lever at the Cleveland Clinic, or “4 Dollar Refill.” [00:56:47] Dawn closes the interview asking about Katherine’s 187-pound dog Romeo. Links: Katherine Eban website Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Dawn Kernagis bio