STEM-Talk

Our guest today is Dr. Mark Mattson, who is affectionally known as the godfather of intermittent fasting. The National Institute of Health describes Mark as “one of the world’s top experts on the potential cognitive and physical health benefits of intermittent fasting.”  He is considered a leader in the area of cellular and molecular mechanisms underlying neuronal plasticity and neurodegenerative disorders and has made major contributions to understanding the pathogenesis of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and stroke, and to their prevention and treatment. After spending nearly 30 years researching calorie restriction and intermittent fasting, Mark has written a book on the topic, “The Intermittent Fasting Revolution: The Science of Optimizing Health and Enhancing Performance.” Our interview with Mark came the day after MIT Press released his book. This is the second time Mark has appeared on STEM-Talk. When we interviewed him back in 2016, intermittent fasting didn’t register on Google’s list of top-10 searches related to diet and eating plans. By 2019, however, intermittent fasting was more widely searched on Google than any other diet. Today, intermittent fasting and the ketogenic diet jockey for Google’s top spot for diet searches. We talk to Mark in this interview about how, as the title of his book suggests, we are indeed in the midst of an intermittent fasting revolution. In today’s episode, Mark walks us through our evolutionary history and how it has sculpted our brains and bodies to function optimally in a fasted state. We talk about ways our overindulgent sedentary lifestyles have negatively impacted not only our waistlines, but also the size of our brains. After describing the various ways to go about intermittent fasting, Mark dives into the science behind fasting. This leads to a fascinating discussion about the metabolic switch that transitions a person from the utilization of glucose to the utilization of fat-derived ketones and how research is showing that this switch becomes an important factor in the treatment of not only cognitive disorders like Alzheimer’s, but also a range of other diseases and disorders like cancer, diabetes, inflammation, kidney, and heart disease. Mark is on the neuroscience faculty at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. He recently retired from the National Institute of Aging where he led its neuroscience laboratory for the past 20 years. Show notes: [00:04:16] Dawn opens the interview congratulating Mark on his new book and asks how long it took him to write it. [00:05:09] Dawn mentions that when Mark was last on STEM-Tall in 2016, intermittent fasting was just beginning to come to the public’s attention, and that today it is almost impossible to pass a grocery store checkout counter without seeing a rack of magazine covers touting intermittent fasting. Dawn asks Mark for his thoughts about what happened in the past decade to suddenly spark so much public interest in fasting. [00:08:20] Ken mentions the title of Mark’s new book, “The Intermittent Fasting Revolution: The Science of Optimizing Health and Enhancing Performance.” Ken asks Mark to expound on the idea that we are witnessing a revolution of interest in intermittent fasting. [00:10:39] Dawn explains that the first chapter of Mark’s book begins with an overview of how evolution sculpted humans and animals to function best in a fasted state. Mark, in this section of his book, makes the point that fasting is not a diet, but an eating pattern that puts a person into a fat-burning state. Dawn asks Mark to briefly walk through this evolutionary history. [00:13:06] Ken mentions that Yuval Noah Harari, author of, “Sapiens: A Grief History of Human Kind,” has said that ancient foragers were the most knowledgeable and skillful people in history. Ken asks Mark to weigh in on Harari’s point that the size of the average brain in Homo Sapiens has actually decreased since the age of hunters and gatherers. [00:17:10] Dawn asks Mark to talk about how our modern overindulgent sedentary lifestyles are having negative impacts on our brains. [00:18:20] Dawn mentions that fasting was relatively popular in the U.S. at the turn of the 20th Century and mentions Josh Turknett, who was recently on STEM-Talk, pointed out that Upton Sinclair actually wrote a book about fasting in 1911.  Dawn mentions that Mark in his book also writes about Sinclair as well as Dr. Edward Dewey, who in 1900 wrote “The No-Breakfast Plan and the Fasting Cure.” Dawn asks why society turned its back on fasting when a century ago it was quite popular. [00:19:55] Ken asks Mark to explain how he first became interested in researching intermittent fasting in the 1990s. [00:22:10] Dawn explains that Alzheimer’s disease ultimately affects almost half of the population over the age of 85, and that diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s often start 15 years before serious symptoms are noticed. Dawn asks Mark to explain the hallmarks of brain aging in relation to these diseases. [00:24:55] Ken asks about the evidence for fasting-induced autophagy in humans, and how much fasting is required to activate it. [00:26:22] Dawn asks about the emotional impact of Alzheimer’s and mentions that Mark’s father was diagnosed with the disease. [00:29:57] Mark expounds on his observations that Alzheimer’s and many other diseases of neural degeneration and cognitive decline are largely metabolic diseases. [00:31:45] Ken asks if the loss of muscle mass could have an impact on Alzheimer’s due to the role skeletal muscle plays in glucose storage. [00:33:11] Ken mentions that Mark writes in his book that fasting is characterized by an increase in the concentration of ketones in the blood, and that fasting therefore can be thought of as a ketogenic diet. Ken goes on to mention that in a relatively sedentary person it typically takes about 12 hours to deplete their liver glucose stores and trigger ketones. Ken asks Mark to walk through the chain of events that happen once glucose in the liver is depleted. [00:34:59] Dawn asks Mark to give a brief description of some of the more popular ways of fasting such as time restricted eating, prolonged fasts, fasting mimicking diets, and the 5:2 fast. [00:37:40] Dawn mentions that Gary Taubes came on STEM-Talk last year to talk about his new book “The Case for Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat Eating.” Dawn asks if there are differences in terms of the benefits of intermittent fasting and a low-carb ketogenic diet. [00:39:48] Ken asks Mark what distinguishes fasting from caloric restriction, and why does fasting yield benefits beyond what we see in caloric restriction. [00:42:10] Dawn asks about Mark’s work today at Johns Hopkins. [00:44:50] Dawn mentions that one of the key takeaways from Mark’s new book is that metabolic syndrome can often be completely reversed by the adoption of a lifestyle that includes intermittent fasting and exercise. Mark points out that there are studies of animals and humans, however, that show intermittent fasting alone can reverse metabolic syndrome. Dawn asks if Mark believes that a combination of exercise and intermittent fasting is still the best approach. [00:46:33] Ken asks about Mark’s 2019 study that looked at how intermittent fasting improves mood and cognition, which found that hippocampal neuronal networks adapt to intermittent fasting by enhancing GABAergic tone, which is associated with reduced anxiety and improved hippocampus-dependent memory. [00:49:37] Dawn asks about another of Mark’s studies published in 2019 that highlighted what research has revealed so far about the effects and benefits of intermittent fasting. [00:53:06] Dawn asks Mark to briefly discuss why switching the metabolic switch from glucose to ketones seems to have a near system-wide effect, improving outcomes in diabetes, multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, kidney disease as well as stroke. [00:55:13] Ken mentions that intermittent fasting seems to have benefits for a wide swath of our generally overweight and metabolically unhealthy population but wonders if it might be inappropriate in the long-term for vulnerable populations such as the elderly experiencing sarcopenia. [00:59:45] Dawn explains that cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of death in the U.S. and that the fourth leading cause of death is stroke. She goes on to explain that the combination of obesity, insulin resistance, hypertension and aging are the major risk factors for cardiovascular disease and stroke, but there are now studies that show intermittent fasting can reduce stroke and heart disease. Dawn asks Mark which of these findings he thinks shows the most promise. [01:01:22] Ken asks about the new book Mark is currently working on, which has the working title of “Sculptor and Destroyer: The Story of Glutamate, the Brain’s Most Important Neurotransmitter.” [01:04:39] Ken closes the interview asking when the new book is set to go to the publisher. Links: Mark Mattson bio Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio    

Our guest today describes the global response to COVID-19 as one of the biggest public-health fiascos in history. As you would expect, he gained quite a bit of notoriety for this contrarian view. Dr. Martin Kulldorff is an epidemiologist and biostatistician who has spent the past 30 years researching infectious diseases as well as the efficacy and safety of vaccines. He is internationally known for his statistical and epidemiological methods for the early detection and monitoring of infectious diseases. A former Harvard Medical School professor who today is the Senior Scientific Officer at the Brownstone Institute, Martin worked with the Centers for Disease Control on its current system for monitoring potential vaccine risks. Today, the U.S. and other countries around the world use Martin’s detection methods to monitor COVID-19. Martin made national headlines in October of 2020 when he and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford and Dr. Sunetra Gupta of Oxford published the Great Barrington Declaration, a paper that questions school closings, lockdowns, travel restrictions and other governmental responses to the COVID-19 pandemic. The three authors recommended “focused protection” instead, a policy of protecting senior citizens and others who are most at risk of dying from COVID while allowing young people and others who face minimal risk of death to resume their normal lives. The three authors were immediately skewered for what critics called a radically dangerous approach for pandemic management. At STEM-Talk, however, we appreciate that a curious, open, and even skeptical mind is at the heart of the scientific method. Because of that, we have invited Martin to sit down with us to discuss the Great Barrington Declaration as well as his views about pandemics and the best ways to safeguard the public. We also review with Martin the age-adjusted mortality rates of states like Florida, New York and California which had quite different responses to COVID-19. Ironically, co-host Dawn Kernagis learned on the morning of our interview with Martin that she had contacted COVID. So, she has to skip today’s discussion. (Note to listeners: It was just a mild case and Dawn is already back on her feet.) But in today’s fascinating episode, Martin and host Ken Ford discuss: — The safety of vaccines, including the coronavirus vaccines. — Martin’s thoughts about the Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine for children. — The Great Barrington Declaration and the concerns it raised about the physical, mental-health and economic impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 responses. — The effectiveness of natural immunity compared to vaccine-induced immunity. — Whether hospitals should be hiring caregivers with natural immunity rather than firing them. — Martin’s thoughts about Sweden, which was the only Western nation that did not impose lockdowns or close its schools and daycare centers in response to COVID-19. — What age-adjusted COVID mortality rates for the U.S. have to say about the different approaches states used in response to the pandemic. Show notes: [00:05:20] Ken opens the interview mentioning that Martin was born in Lund in 1962 in southern Sweden, but grew up in Umea, a university town in northeast Sweden. Ken asks what prompted Martin’s family to move to Umea when he was two years old. [00:05:47] Ken mentions as an aside that he once spent an enjoyable week at the University of Umea visiting Lars-Erick Janlert.  Ken served as the external expert for a PhD dissertation. [00:07:00] Ken asks Martin what he was like as a child. [00:07:32] Ken asks what drew Martin to math, and if it came naturally to him. [00:08:15] Martin talks about his decision to attend Umea University and major in mathematical statistics. [00:09:09] Ken asks why Martin moved to the United States and to attend Cornell University as a Fullbright Fellow for his postgraduate studies, and why he decided to earn his Ph.D. in operations research. [00:10:39] Ken asks about the software Martin developed called SaTScan, which analyses spatial, temporal, and space-time data for the purposes of geographical and hospital-disease surveillance. [00:14:13] Ken asks why Martin returned to Sweden to be an assistant professor in statistics at Uppsala University after receiving his Ph.D. [00:15:26] Ken asks when and why Martin became primarily focused on diseases and epidemiology rather than other fields where statistics is applicable. [00:16:47] Ken mentions TreeScan, a data mining software package that Martin developed which looks for excess risk in a large number of individual cells in a database as well as in groups of closely related cells. Ken asks Martin to talk about how this software is used for disease surveillance and what some of its key features are. [00:18:09] Ken mentions that Martin is also the co-developer of the R-Sequential software program used for exact sequential analysis, with his key scientific contribution to it being the development of the statistical and epidemiological methods used in this software. Martin gives an overview of what these methods include. [00:20:01] Ken asks why Martin returned to a university setting when he left the National Cancer Institute to work at the University of Connecticut. [00:20:50] Ken mentions that in 2002, Martin took a position as a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and Brigham Women’s Hospital. Martin talks about how much of his research at the time was focused on developing new statistical and epidemiological methods for disease surveillance and looking at ways to optimize health outcomes for individuals and populations. [00:21:43] Ken asks Martin to talk about his work with a CDC working group that looked at the Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccine, also known as the MMR vaccine. [00:25:34] Ken mentions that Martin had been a member of the FDA’s Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee and asks Martin to talk about this work. [00:28:06] Ken asks about Martin’s work as part of the World Health Organization’s Disease Mapping Advisory Group in 1997. [00:29:07] Ken asks Martin to describe how his methods and contributions to the development of statistical and epidemiological methods for early identification of infectious disease outbreaks are being used today to monitor COVID-19 in the U.S. and abroad. [00:30:18] Ken mentions that much of Martin’s research today focuses on developing and applying new disease surveillance methods for post-market drug and vaccine safety surveillance. Ken also mentions that a significant number of people today have concerns about the safety of not just the coronavirus vaccines, but all vaccines. Ken asks what insights Martin can share with people about the safety of the coronavirus vaccines as well as vaccines more generally. [00:32:57] Ken mentions that Martin has helped develop key parts of the U.S. vaccine safety system, and in 2020 he became a member of the CDC’s Covid Vaccine Safety Technical Work Group which reviewed COVID-19 vaccine safety data on a weekly basis when the U.S. began its vaccination program. Ken goes on to mention that in April of 2021, the CDC removed Martin from the work group after he publicly disagreed with the agency’s pause of the Johnson and Johnson COVID vaccine for older Americans. Ken asks Martin what his key objections were to the pause of the J&J vaccine and what were the issues that led to his removal from the safety group. [00:38:32] Ken explains that the CDC is now recommending the Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine for children 5 through 11 years old, as well as children 12 to 17. Ken asks what Martin’s thoughts are on this and what advice does he have for parents about giving this to their children. [00:41:59] Ken explains that Martin has been an outspoken critic of not only the U.S. response to COVID-19, but also the global response, which he has described as the biggest public health fiasco in history. Ken goes on to mention that Martin and two other scientists – Sunetra Gupta fron Oxford and Jay Ghattacharya of Stanford – wrote The Great Barrington Declaration, which raised concerns about the damaging physical, mental-health, and economic impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 responses. Instead of Lockdowns, Martin and his colleagues recommended focused protection. Ken asks why Martin thinks lockdown policies have produced devastating effects on short and long-term public health. [00:44:53] Martin elaborates on the concept of focused protection and how it is fundamentally different than the lockdown approach. [00:49:00] Ken mentions that Martin has made the point that nurses and caregivers who have recovered from COVID-19 have stronger and longer-lasting immunity than vaccinated people who have not been infected with COVID-19. Ken asks Martin to elaborate on his position that hospitals should be hiring caregivers with natural immunity rather than firing them if they refuse to take the vaccine. [00:51:47] Ken mentions that a recent Israeli study conducted in early 2021, that looked at a group of people who had contracted coronavirus and thus had natural immunity. The study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease, and hospitalization than two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Ken mentions that this study has not been peer-reviewed yet and it only focused on Israelis who received the Pfizer vaccine, but asks Martin to give his initial thoughts about what this research shows in terms of an immune hierarchy related to the coronavirus. [00:54:23] Ken asks if we know if there is a difference of degree of protection afforded to individuals infected by different variants of COVID-19. [00:55:54] Ken mentions the John Snow Memorandum, published in in The Lancet,[85] which is a response by 80 researchers denouncing the Great Barrington Declaration. Ken explains that the memorandum contends that the idea of herd immunity is a “dangerous fallacy unsupported by the scientific evidence.” [00:58:49] Ken mentions that Martin has been a proponent of the approach that has been followed by Sweden, which was the only Western country that did not close its schools or daycare centers, asking Martin to talk about Sweden’s response and some of the key lessons and insights that we should take away from it. [01:03:37] Ken explains that Martin and his co-authors of the Great Barrington Declaration have been fiercely criticized, with William Haseltine, a former Harvard Medical School professor saying herd immunity was just another word for mass murder. Ken goes on to explain that Haseltine, in 2020, said that if we allowed the virus to spread in an attempt to reach herd immunity, that we were looking at two to six million American deaths. Ken goes on to say that this has not happened either in the U.S. or in Sweden, and asks Martin if he thinks there is more openness today in the research community to the points raised in the Great Barrington Declaration, as well as Sweden’s response to COVID-19. [01:08:57] Ken mentions that lockdown policies affect working class people the most, those who cannot perform their work over Zoom. It affects people like policy makers the least. Ken and Martin discuss how different the pandemic has been for the Zoom class compared to the working class. [01:11:43] Ken explains that New York State and California both had long periods of strict lockdowns in 2020 and 2021 while Florida had a shorter lockdown period and reopened businesses and tourism and schools much sooner than most states. Ken goes on to mention that Florida has also rejected mask and vaccine mandates and that a lot of people have second-guessed Florida’s approach to COVID. But in terms of age-adjusted COVID mortality rates, Florida is much like Sweden in that the catastrophe that was supposed to happen didn’t. Ken explains that New York had one of the highest age-adjusted COVID mortality rates while Florida and California had mortality rates lower than the national average. Ken asks Martin for his take on Florida and California’s identical outcomes although the two states had starkly contrasted responses to the virus. [01:14:56] Ken asks about the increase in hospitalizations among children with the Omicron variant. [01:18:20] Ken asks if Martin thinks we should start to accept that we can’t eliminate COVID and its variants, much like the flu, and instead should work towards mitigating risks in the future. [01:24:06] Ken mentions that Martin recently left Harvard and has joined the Brownstone Institute as its Senior Scientific Director. Ken explains that Brownstone was founded in 2021 to respond to the COVID crisis and provide a “safe haven” for scientific research. When accepting his new role, Martin said that “governments, universities and scientific leaders have failed us during this pandemic, resulting in the biggest health fiasco in history.” Ken asks what Martin hopes to accomplish through his work with Brownstone. [01:27:10] Ken talks about how non-medical experts like engineers, computer scientists and mathematicians are increasingly analyzing medical research and producing sophisticated observations that are at times at odds with medical orthodoxy. Ken asks Martin if he believes this kind of research by so-called outsiders should be encouraged or, like some suggest, should be censured. [01:31:02] As Ken closes the interview asking Martin if it is true that something besides COVID also weighs heavily on Martin’s mind. Links: Martin Kulldorff  Brownstone Institute page Martin Kulldorff Wikipedia page Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio    

Our guest today is Dr. Christopher Logothetis, one of the nation’s foremost experts on prostate cancer. Chris has spent nearly five decades at MD Anderson in Houston developing therapies for prostate cancer as well as conducting research into the underlying biology of the disease. Aside from skin cancers, prostate cancer is the most common cancer among men, claiming a man’s life every 15 minutes in the United States, according to the Prostrate Cancer Foundation. Since the 1970s when Chris joined the staff at MD Andersen, which is the nation’s top-ranked hospital for cancer care, he has been dedicated to the treatment, research, and prevention of genitourinary cancers such bladder, kidney, testes and penis cancer. For the past 25 years, he has focused primarily on prostate cancer and the development of effective chemotherapy treatments. Today, Chris is the director of MD Anderson’s Genitourinary Cancer Center and the director of the Prostate Cancer Research Program. Show notes: [00:03:23] Dawn opens the interview mentioning that Chris went to medical school in Greece and asks if he grew up there as well. [00:03:43] Ken asks Chris when he first became interested in science. [00:04:09] Dawn asks if there were a particular teacher or class that prompted Chris’ decision to pursue medicine. [00:04:39] Dawn asks what led Chris to attend the University of Athens School of Medicine. [00:05:10] Dawn mentions that in the ‘60s and ‘70s, talking about cancer was almost taboo and asks Chris to talk about the stigma that surrounded cancer for quite some time. [00:05:57] Ken asks if Chris knew he wanted to specialize in cancers when he first started medical school in Athens or if that interest developed later. [00:07:06] Dawn mentions that Chris graduated from medical school in 1974 and then took off for Chicago where he had an internship at Cook County Hospital. Dawn asks about the experience, and if it were a culture shock to go from Athens, Greece to Chicago in the 1970s. [00:08:54] Dawn asks what took Chris to Texas and MD Anderson after his time in Chicago. [00:09:36] Dawn mentions that after Chris finished his fellowship, he joined the faculty at MD Anderson, and is now coming upon his 50th anniversary there. [00:09:51] Chris explains his view that we need to better understand the drivers of cancer and goes on to talk about what we currently know about these drivers. [00:12:06] Ken asks about the significance of the Human Genome Project on cancer research. [00:13:49] Dawn mentions that along with new technologies, there evolved a strategy of what is called co-clinical investigation where researchers study the mouse, but in parallel look at the difference and similarities with humans. She asks him about how that integrated data required a new language to bring it all together, which is now known as Prometheus. Dawn asks Chris to talk about Prometheus and how this has led to an accelerated understanding of cancer biology. [00:20:47] Dawn mentions that Chris has studied a range of genitourinary cancers throughout his career, such as germ cell tumors, bladder, and renal cancers, but that his interest in prostate cancer is a more recent development. Dawn asks what led to this specific interest. [00:23:12] Dawn explains that metastatic cancer was first cured in 1956 when methotrexate was used to treat a rare tumor called choriocarcinoma. She goes on to say that since then, chemotherapy drugs have been used to treat mixed germ-cell tumors and has led to dramatically improved survivorship among patients with metastatic germ-cell tumors. She also mentions that in 1982 Chris published a paper in the journal Cancer titled, “The growing teratoma syndrome,” at which time, tumor growth following chemotherapy for mixed germ-cell tumors had been considered a reliable indicator of a persistent active carcinoma, with the rule being that if the cancer didn’t respond to treatment that operations were futile. Dawn explains that in Chris’ 1982 paper, he demonstrated that you could alter a tumor with chemotherapy in such a way that surgery could now cure it where previously could not. Chris expounds on this paper and its significance. [00:27:21] Ken mentions that Chris had another paper where he described the spiral diagram of cancer progression, where the cancer sends a message to the host, which sends a message back in a cycle over time. Ken goes on to say that Chris’ conclusion was that this interaction between the cancer and the host eventually evolves into the patient’s body and becomes, in a sense, complicit in the cancer’s growth. Chris goes on to explain the spiral of cancer progression. [00:31:19] Dawn points out that in the spring of 2021, Chris published a paper in Clinical Cancer Researched titled “Radium-223 Treatment Increases Immune Checkpoint Expression in Extracellular Vesicles From the Metastatic Prostate Cancer Bone Microenvironment.”Dawn goes on to explain that Radium-223 is a radiopharmaceutical used to treat metastatic cancers in bone. Bone-targeting radiotherapy with Radium-223 prolongs the survival of patients with metastatic prostate cancer. Treatment, however, is often followed by a detrimental relapse and progression. Dawn explains that despite this, Chris detailed in his aforementioned paper a treatment strategy that could potentially increase the effectiveness of Radium-223. [00:34:24] Ken mentions that prostate-specific antigen test, or PSA, has become controversial for its utility as a screen, and asks Chris for his thoughts on the matter. [00:36:09] Ken asks if a change in PSA levels in a patient over time is more of an elucidating marker than a single high value at one point in time. [00:38:20] Dawn mentions that Chris wrote in a paper that appeared in the Journal of Cell Science & Therapy. “When we aspire to cure cancer, we need to search no further than a curable cancer such as germ cell tumor of the testis, also known as TGCT.” Dawn asks Chris to expound on this paper and how TGCT provides us invaluable lessons about curing other intractable solid tumors. [00:41:18] Ken mentions that Chris and his colleagues at MD Anderson and the School of Medicine at the University of Thessaly in Greece wrote an opinion piece that ran in European Urology titled “Prostrate Cancer: Quo Vadis?” The article stressed that utility measures are urgently needed for the clinical application of new diagnostics to reduce excessive intervention. Ken asks Chris to provide more background on this piece and describe the type of diagnostics he and his colleagues recommend in it. [00:44:27] Dawn explains that while there has been some very promising research into the development of a stress response therapy, metastatic prostate cancer remains an incurable disease, and no effective therapies have yet come out of the research. She goes on to say that Chris addressed this issue in a 2018 article in Science Translational Medicine titled “ER stress in prostate cancer: A therapeutically exploitable vulnerability?” The article was in response to a paper that also appeared in Science Translational Medicine titled “Development of a stress response therapy targeting aggressive prostate cancer.” Dawn asks why Chris wrote this response, and since the publishing of these papers, if there has been much progress in developing effective therapies that target these aggressive prostate cancers. [00:49:12] Dawn mentions that prostate cancer is a highly heritable disease with disparities in incidence rate across ancestry populations, with the Prostate Cancer Foundation saying that this is one of the largest health disparities in all of medicine. Dawn asks Chris what his thoughts are on this in light of his investigations into the issue. [00:51:29] Ken explains that there is a precision prostate cancer screening in development called the “Smith Test,” which is something that could help address the disparities in incidence rates across ancestry populations. He goes on to say that the test is described as a simple blood test, similar to a cholesterol test, that would be able to indicate the lifetime risk of prostate cancer of any man. Chris gives his thoughts on this effort. [00:55:35] Since the death rate from prostate cancer dropped more than 50 percent since the establishment of the Prostrate Cancer Foundation in 1993, Dawn asks Chris about research on the horizon that gives Chris the most hope. [00:58:27] Dawn mentions Chris’ evening lecture at IHMC titled “Addressing Paradoxes in Health Care,” and asks Chris to give a short summary of his talk. [01:02:25] Dawn asks if Chris is currently considering retirement anytime soon. [01:04:16] Ken asks about Chris’ passion for sailing. [01:06:40] Dawn closes the interview asking if it is true that Chris is such an avid sailor that he has a sailboat in Greece as well as Texas, and that he does some of his best work on sailboats. Links: Christopher Logothetis bio Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio  

Our guest today is Dr. Josh Turknett, the author of “The Migraine Miracle” and “Keto for Migraine,” two books that have helped thousands of people use a holistic approach to end their chronic migraines. Josh is often referred to as “public enemy number one to migraines” everywhere. He is a neurologist, musician, author, and entrepreneur. He has more than two decades of experience in the field of cognitive and behavioral neuroscience. Josh practices medicine in Atlanta at the Turknett Center for Neurology and Cognitive Enhancement. In today’s episode, we talk to Josh about his own history with migraines and how migraine is a common and complex neurological disorder that includes a genetic component. Josh earned a bachelor’s degree in cognitive neuroscience from Wesleyan University, an M.D. from Emory University, and completed his residency training at the University of Florida. In addition to his medical practice, Josh also is the founder of Brainjo, a company that creates educational resources that utilize a system of instruction based on the science of learning and neuroplasticity. He’s a musician who plays in the band The Georgia Jays and teaches people to play the clawhammer banjo, fingerstyle banjo, fiddle and ukulele. As if he didn’t have enough to do, Josh also is the president of Physicians for Ancestral Health and the chief medical officer for humanOS, which was recently acquired by Restore Hyper Wellness. Josh also is the host of the Intelligence Unshackled podcast, which explores the many ways that human potential is constrained and how people can go about optimizing it. Show notes: [00:03:22] Dawn opens the interview asking Josh about his mother’s struggles with migraines. [00:04:59] Dawn asks Josh how old he was when he first started having migraines. [00:06:15] Ken asks Josh how he first became interested in science. [00:08:24] Dawn asks Josh how he ended up in the Connecticut at Wesleyan University for his undergraduate degree. [00:09:35] Ken asks if Josh knew he wanted to major in neuroscience when he first arrived at Wesleyan or if that was a later decision. [00:10:49] Dawn asks if it is true that Josh’s girlfriend at the time played a role in his decision to move back to Atlanta to go to medical school at Emory after his undergrad. [00:11:55] Dawn asks what motivated Josh to attend the University of Florida for his residency after being a lifelong Gator-hater. [00:14:39] Ken mentions that despite all the hype around neuroscience when the field was emerging, the last major breakthrough in neurology was in the ‘90s with the discovery of triptan drugs for migraines. Ken asks if we have made any major neurological advances since then, and if not, why? [00:17:41] Ken asks Josh what he would suggest to today’s neurology residents and neuroscience graduate students who might want to avoid the recent failures of the modern approaches to treating neurological disease. [00:19:57] Dawn explains that a migraine is a complex neurological disorder affecting 15 to 20 percent of the population, with many subtypes including a genetic component. Dawn asks Josh what is currently understood about the genetic component of migraines. [00:21:28] Ken asks Josh at what point in his career did he decide to specialize in migraines. [00:23:17] Dawn asks Josh to explain to people who have not suffered from migraines what it feels like to experience a cascade of symptoms such as numbness, tingling, visual disturbances, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, fatigue, and blinding headaches. [00:25:15] Ken asks Josh what the difference is between cluster headaches and migraines. [00:26:49] Dawn mentions that people can start to feel the onset of a migraine 48 hours before the pain sets in, a phase called the prodrome. Josh explains what the prodrome is and what its symptoms are. [00:28:03] Dawn mentions the fact that the pain of a migraine is preceded by an aura, which is often a frightening but temporary neurological disturbance that sets off an alarm of an impending migraine headache. She asks Josh what is known about auras. [00:30:11] Ken asks if the auras experienced by migraine sufferers is similar to the experiences some people have preceding an epileptic seizure. [00:30:41] Ken asks if people bounce back immediately once the migraine is over, or if there is a recovery period involved. [00:31:53] Dawn switches to the topic of how diet and lifestyle can help people manage their migraines by asking Josh about how his interest in ancestral health, and the ancestral way of eating. [00:34:43] Ken asks Josh what discoveries led him to write his 2013 book, “The Migraine Miracle.” [00:38:12] Dawn mentions that the ketogenic diet has become extremely popular over the past few years. Dawn goes on to say that while the ketogenic diet has been largely understood to help people with weight loss, epileptic seizures, metabolic disorders, and many other health issues. Dawn asks Josh to talk about how when his book “Keto for Migraine” came out, there weren’t many references to how a low-carb/high-fat diet could help people with their migraines. [00:42:16] Dawn mentions that in “Keto for Migraine” Josh points out that the typical version of the ketogenic diet can make migraines worse. Given that, Dawn asks what the keys are for maximizing the benefits of keto for the migraine brain. [00:43:12] Dawn asks Josh to address how ketosis impacts blood cholesterol testing. [00:45:46] Ken asks what other things Josh has learned about ketosis and the migraine brain. [00:48:42] Ken mentions fasting as a way to induce ketosis, and asks if Josh utilizes fasting, either for himself or as a recommendation for his patients. [00:51:43] Although fasting has become a popular fad in recent years, the journalist Upton Sinclair wrote a best-selling book back in 1911 called “The Fasting Cure.” Dawn asks Josh about the interesting things he learned from reading Sinclair’s book. [00:53:34] Ken asks if Josh has investigated the possibility of a connection between migraines and gut health, given the multitude of disorders now being associated with a breakdown in the gut. [00:56:25] Dawn mentions that in addition to Josh’s medical practice, he is a musician, playing banjo for the Georgia Jays. He also is an entrepreneur, a business consultant, and is currently the president of the Physicians for Ancestral Health, a role previously held by Tommy Wood. Dawn asks how Josh can manage this wide variety of roles and interests. [00:58:49] Dawn asks how long Josh has been playing banjo. Josh also talks about the band he plays with, the Georgia Jays. [01:00:08] Dawn mentions Josh’s book “The Laws of Brainjo,” a compilation of articles about the fundamental principles of learning, described by Josh as a neuroscience-based system of instruction for learning as well as an owner’s manual for molding a musical mind at any age. Josh gives a brief overview of his Brainjo system. [01:03:33] Ken mentions Josh’s recent IHMC lecture about how the significant reduction in cognitively demanding activities that occurs over a typical human lifespan may be a driving force in the development of cognitive decline and dementia, a phenomenon described as the Demand Driven Decline Theory. Ken asks Josh to touch on the Demand Driven Decline Theory and on some of the key points from his lecture. [01:08:04] Dawn mentions that a previous STEM-Talk guest, Dr. Dale Bredesen has proposed a multi-modal model that includes toxic exposures, stressors, diet, genetics, and hormonal effects as drivers of cognitive decline that need to be individually assessed and addressed based on the patient. Dawn goes on to explain that in this model, the capacity of the brain slowly decreases over time as injury accumulates, until supply of cognitive function no longer meets demand. This model contrasts Josh’s Demand Driven Decline Theory and given that there is evidence to support both theories, Dawn asks Josh how they might be reconciled. [01:11:15] Ken asks Josh to reiterate the importance of adults doing things they are not good at, and if Josh has any thoughts on how we can encourage and support people to continue to learn new skills. [01:15:09] Dawn mentions that in 2018, Josh launched the Intelligence Unshackled podcast, which explores the potential of human intelligence. Dawn goes on to mention that on the show’s home page, Josh points out that the human brain has far more potential than most people realize and that releasing that potential requires people to understand and address the ways in which their brains are limited or shackled. Josh talks about what led him to enter the podcast world and gives an overview of his show. [[01:18:01] Dawn mentions that Josh plays tennis in his spare time, asking if this is something he has always done, or an interest taken up later in life. [01:19:24] Ken asks if it is true that another part of Josh’s daily routine is a walk with his wife. [01:20:19] Ken closes the interview mentioning that a little birdie, perhaps a Georgia Jay, told him that Josh and his family have a special musical tradition at Christmas. Links: Josh Turknett website Josh Turknett Amazon page Georgia Jays Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio    

Our guest today is Dr. Morley Stone, the former Chief Technology Officer for the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) and former Senior Vice President for Research at Ohio State University, who is now IHMC’s Chief Strategic Partnership Officer. Morley is recognized as an international leader in biomimetics and human performance. In today’s interview, we talk to Morley about his time as AFRL’s chief technology officer as well as his stint as the chief scientist for the Air Force’s 711th Human Performance Wing, which is responsible for providing technical oversight of projects geared to optimize human performance for the nation’s air, space, and cyberspace forces. We also have a fascinating conversation with Morley about his early career and research into biomimetics, which is the study of using biological structures, materials and principles as models for the development of new materials, structures, and devices. In his new role at IHMC, Morley will become the institute’s point person for public- and private-sector partnerships. He also will work with IHMC’s scientists and research staff to help coordinate and implement the multitude of scientific projects the institute has in its pipeline. Show notes: [00:03:07] Dawn mentions that Morley grew up in a small steel producing town in Pennsylvania and asks him what he was like as a kid. [00:03:56] Ken asks Morley about his days as wrestler growing up and why he still today views wrestling as a special sport. [00:05:00] Dawn asks about Morley’s move to Dayton, Ohio, when he was 17. [00:05:36] Dawn asks how Morley decided upon Wright State as opposed to the University of Dayton. [00:05:57] Morley tells the story of how a girl in college pointed out an ad for an internship and how that helped him decide to become a biochemistry major. [00:06:43] Dawn asks what happened to the girl who pointed out the aforementioned ad. [00:08:28] Ken asks Morley to talk about the Air Force Research Lab (AFRL) and the role of the lab’s Materials and Manufacturing Directorate. [00:09:53] Dawn mentions that after earning his bachelor’s degree, Morley had a short stint as a materials research engineer at the directorate before heading off to Carnegie Mellon University to work on a Ph.D. in biochemistry. Dawn asks why Morley chose to attend Carnegie Mellon. [00:11:08] Dawn mentions that in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, Morley had the good fortune to work with scientists who had the foresight to know that there was going to be a radical change in material science, which up until that point had been dominated by metals and ceramics. Morley talks about the most important lessons he learned from these colleagues and mentors. [00:12:41] Dawn asks about Morley’s time as a research biologist, and eventually principal research biologist, at the Materials and Manufacturing Directorate after his Ph.D. [00:14:41] Ken asks Morley to explain biomimetics and discuss the systems that Morley and his colleagues looked at during his time at the Materials and Manufacturing Directorate, ranging from infrared sensing to instances of biological camouflage. [00:18:01] Dawn mentions that the creation of nanoscale materials for advanced structures has led to a growing interest in the area of biomineralization, she goes on to say that during Morley’s time at the directorate, he especially researched the process of biomineralization and the assembly of nanostructured inorganic components into hierarchical structures, which led to the development of a variety of approaches that mimic the recognition and nucleation capabilities found in biomolecules for inorganic material synthesis. Morley discusses his 2002 paper in Nature Materials where he described the in vitro biosynthesis of silver nanoparticles using silver-binding peptides. [00:21:20] Dawn asks about Morley’s 2004 paper in Advanced Materials where he and his colleagues had taken a protein that was responsible for thermal sensing and incorporated it into an array. [00:23:21] Ken asks about the follow-up paper to Morley’s aforementioned 2004 paper, published in 2005 in the Journal of the American Chemical Society. It was titled “Polypeptide-Templated Synthesis of Hexagonal Silica Platelets.” [00:25:28] Dawn asks Morley about his time as program manager in DARPA’s Defense Science Office from 2003 to 2006. [00:27:30] Morley explains what the Heilmeier Catechism is. [00:28:51] Dawn asks about Morley’s time as senior scientist for Molecular Systems Biotechnology in the Human Effectiveness Directorate of the Air Force Research Laboratory. [00:31:25] Ken mentions that in a 2011 report that ran in The Armed Forces Journal, Morley laid a foundation for how the Department of Defense could play a leadership role in human performance augmentation as a way of developing the “quantified warrior” as he described it. Ken goes on to mention that he cited this paper in a 2014 article he co-authored with Clark Glymour for the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists titled “The Enhanced Warfighter.” Ken asks Morley to talk about his paper and the changes that he has seen in the field since it was published. [00:35:31] Dawn asks what led Morley in 2018 to become the senior vice president for research at Ohio State University. [00:36:33] During a meeting recently held at IHMC, a young academic asked Morley why he left the lab and working directly in applied research to pursue more of a leadership role. Morley responded by saying, “I’m going to be very clear that there’s nothing as fun as when you’re a bench scientist.” Dawn asks Morley why he thinks this. [00:40:00] Ken asks Morley what it is about the various leadership roles that he has had over the years that he finds most rewarding. [00:42:36] Dawn asks why Morley recently joined IHMC and how he sees his new position as the institute’s Chief Strategic Partnership Officer. [00:44:26] Ken mentions that during Morley’s time at DARPA he focused on biologically inspired robotics. Now that Morley is working at IHMC, Ken asks how it feels to be working with a robotics lab that also draws its inspiration from biology. [00:45:40] Ken asks Morley what he likes to do with his spare time now that he and his wife have settled into Pensacola. Links: Morley Stone bio Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio    

In today’s episode, Dr. Tommy Wood returns for his fifth appearance on STEM-Talk. Tommy is a UK-trained physician and an assistant research professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington. He also is a visiting research scientist and a valued colleague of ours here at IHMC. Today’s interview focuses on a new paper that Tommy just had published by the American Society for Microbiology. It’s titled, “Reframing Nutritional Microbiota Studies To Reflect an Inherent Metabolic Flexibility of the Human Gut: A Narrative Review Focusing on High-Fat Diets.” We discuss the paper and follow up on some research Tommy has done since his last appearance on STEM-Talk, a two-part interview that took place a little more than a year ago. In that two-part interview, episodes 110 and 111, we touched on Tommy’s research into the importance of metabolic health and how only one in eight Americans is considered metabolically healthy. We also talk to Tommy about a new grant he just received to examine the effects of azithromycin on premature brain injury in a ferret model. As part of this grant, Tommy will be collaborating with his wife, Dr. Elizabeth Nance, who also is an assistant professor at the University of Washington and was our guest on episode 71 of STEM-Talk. Show notes: [00:03:15] Dawn opens the interview mentioning Tommy’s new paper published by the American Society for Microbiology titled “Reframing Nutritional Microbiota Studies to Reflect an Inherent Metabolic Flexibility of the Human Gut: A Narrative Review Focusing on High-Fat Diets.” Dawn mentions that in our last interview with Tommy, he talked about the importance of insulin sensitivity and metabolic health, yet as Tommy has pointed out, more than 80 percent of Americans have some kind of metabolic disease or dysfunction. Given that, Dawn asks Tommy to revisit key points regarding insulin resistance; the importance of metabolic health; and why so many Americans struggle with this issue. [00:06:18] Ken points out that the common view held in much of the nutritional-microbiota research is that high-fat diets are harmful to human health, at least in part through their modulation of the gut microbiota. Ken goes on to say that there are a number of studies that support the inherent flexibility of the human gut and our microbiota’s ability to adapt to a variety of food sources, suggesting a more nuanced picture than the commonly held view. Ken asks Tommy to give an overview of the gut microbiome and how research in the past decade has explored the effects of the gut microbiome on our metabolism, immune systems, our sleep, and our moods and cognition. [00:09:50] Dawn asks Tommy to explain the history of how fat, and high-fat diets, became public enemy number one in many circles, including gut microbiome research. [00:12:46] Ken mentions that there are many limitations when it comes to preclinical nutritional research, with many studies on the role of fat in the diet being based on animal models, particularly rat models, which presents several problems since the natural diet of a mouse is low in fat and high in carbohydrates. [00:15:50] Ken asks Tommy about the need for a more nuanced view of fat and our microbiota’s ability to adapt to different food sources. [00:17:33] Ken points out that while people might throw around the term “healthy gut microbiota,” the research into the gut microbiota is so new that we don’t yet know for sure what a healthy gut microbiota should look like. [00:21:22] Ken asks Tommy how we should go about reframing the debate about fat and high-fat diets to better reflect the overall evidence. [00:23:48] Dawn mentions that in the past decade, researchers have significantly improved our understanding of the gut microbiome. She asks about Tommy’s belief that there is a need to understand the gut microbiome in an evolutionary context as well. [00:25:18] Tommy gives an overview of the gut-barrier function and its role in health and disease. [00:25:31] Dawn asks Tommy to talk about the significance of the study by Duke University’s David Lawrence that Tommy cited in his aforementioned paper, which highlights how quickly and reliably the human gut microbiota adapts to dietary changes. [00:30:42] Dawn mentions that there is a lot of research supporting the therapeutic effects of a ketogenic diet on overall health in the context of epilepsy and multiple sclerosis. She asks if there is any such research that focuses on the gut. [00:34:01] Dawn asks about the assertion in Tommy’s aforementioned paper that while butyrate production may be reduced on a ketogenic diet, other molecules can potentially take butyrate’s place to maintain the gut barrier function, an assertion that challenges many assumptions about normal metabolic pathways in the gut. [00:36:21] Ken asks if there have been any studies that Tommy knows of that have assessed the effects of ketones, or a ketogenic diet, on the gut barrier function. [00:39:50] Dawn asks about the mouse models and preclinical studies that show that ketogenic diets or ketones are cancer suppressive. [00:40:52] Ken mentions that Tommy addresses three objections concerning the effects of fat and protein on our gut microbiota in his paper, asking Tommy to briefly go over these objections and his responses to them. [00:45:42] Dawn asks Tommy what he believes are the questions that need to be asked or answered when it comes to nutritional microbiota research. [00:46:36] Dawn mentions Tommy’s 2020 IHMC evening lecture about nourishing the human brain titled “Brain Health Across the Lifespan.” Dawn asks about the grant Tommy just received to examine the effects of azithromycin on premature brain injury in a ferret model. [00:48:35] Dawn asks Tommy what it is about azithromycin that he finds particularly exciting as a potential neuroprotective agent. [00:50:52] Ken mentions that Tommy will be collaborating on the grant with his wife, Dr. Elizabeth Nance, a faculty member of the University of Washington who was our guest on episode 71 of STEM-Talk. Ken asks Tommy how he and his wife’s work on this project will intersect. [00:53:42] Dawn asks Tommy how Elizabeth is doing. [00:54:26] Ken asks how Tommy’s findings on neuroprotection in babies might be transferable to adults looking to optimize their neural health. [00:59:02] Dawn closes the interview asking Tommy about his dogs and his most important goal in life. Links: Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio Tommy Wood bio Tommy Wood talk on brain health  

It’s time for another Ask Me Anything episode. In today’s show, Ken and Dawn tackle a wide range of listener questions about: — Protein intake on a ketogenic diet. — A new study on the efficacy and safety of MDMA-assisted therapy. — The Pentagon’s new report about UFOs. — Virta Health’s two-year pilot study that demonstrated people diagnosed with prediabetes had normalized their glucose through carbohydrate restriction. — The FDA’s controversial approval of the Biogen Alzheimer’s disease drug Aduhelm. — The deepest man-made pool and diving research facility that just opened in Dubai. — Strategies to deal with the so-called “keto flu.” — And a lot more. Enjoy. 00:02:49 A listener asks Ken about protein intake on a ketogenic diet. The listener says they have heard some experts say that protein intake should be fairly low on a ketogenic diet while other experts suggest protein needs might actually be higher than what is generally recommended. The listener, who is physically active and on a ketogenic diet but isn’t seeing much muscle growth, asks Ken what the research says about what proper levels of protein on a ketogenic diet. 00:05:05 A listener asks Ken about STEM-Talk’s interview with Gordon Lithgow, episode 120 of STEM-Talk, mentioning that Ken and Gordon referenced arginine AKG, a supplement often used by athletes and bodybuilders to improve their performance and reduce muscle fatigue. The listener asks if arginine AKG, or calcium AKG, or something else can help them recover from exercise as they get older. In his response, Ken discusses a 2017 meta-analysis by Robert Wolfe. Ken also mentions two essential amino acid blends, MAP Master Amino Acid Pattern. The other blend is called Mass Pro Synthagen. 00:12:09 A listener mentions in their question that there is a new study that just came out in Nature Medicine looking at the efficacy and safety of MDMA-assisted therapy for people diagnosed with severe PTSD. Nearly 70 percent of the participants who received MDMA therapy no longer qualified for a diagnosis of PTSD after two months of treatment. The listener asks Ken and Dawn if they have read this study and what their thoughts are. Ken in his response mentions two STEM-Talk episodes that touched on MDMA-assisted therapy, David Rabin in Episode 99 and Rachel Yehuda in episode 101. 00:14:37]A listener asks Ken what the justification for spending almost $3 billion on the Perseverance Mars mission is, going on to ask with all the needs here on Earth, how does NASA and Congress justify the billions that will be needed for a manned mission to Mars. 00:19:06 A listener asks how Dawn’s research on glymphatic function in extreme environments is going. 00:22:31 A listener asks Kens for his thoughts on the recent media coverage of the Pentagon’s new report on more 100 UFOs, or “unidentified aerial phenomena,” that the Pentagon cannot explain. 00:25:49 A listener mentions that Virta Health is wrapping up its data collection of a five-year trial that looks at nutritional ketosis as a treatment for type-2 diabetes and prediabetes. Virta recently published the results of its two-year pilot study that demonstrated people diagnosed with prediabetes had normalized their glucose in the blood through carbohydrate restriction. The listener asks Ken to comment on this two-year pilot study since Ken is affiliated with Virta. In his response, Ken mentions Amy McKenzie’s 2021 paper. 00:27:17 A listener asks Ken about the controversial FDA approval of the Biogen Alzheimer’s disease drug Aduhelm. Despite murky clinical trial results, the drug was fast-tracked, even though it will cost a person $56,000 annually. 00:30:57 A listener asks Dawn, given her diving background, about the deepest man-made pool and diving research facility that just opened in Dubai. 00:33:44 A listener asks Ken about a study that ran in JAMA that found that fasting for 12 hours or more led to minimal weight loss and significant muscle loss. The listener mentions that these results go against the research of some previous STEM-Talk guests like Satchin Panda, and asks Ken to weigh in on these results and the design of the study. In his response, Ken refers to several well-done studies and a 2019 paper by Tinsley, titled, “Time Rest Restricted Feeding Plus Resistance Training In Active Females, a Randomized Trial.” 00:37:21 A listener asks Ken about the new center for human performance that IHMC is looking to build in Pensacola. 00:38:07 A listener mentions a study that ran in PLOS Medicine which reported that men and women whose workout routines consistently included resistance exercise were less likely to become obese. The listener asks if, based on this, whether what we do in terms of exercise, particularly resistance training, is just as important as the foods we eat and the diets we follow. 00:40:28 A listener mentions Dawn’s research in neuroprotection in stressful environments and asks if Dawn is also looking at applying these findings to clinical scenarios, such as surgery, anesthesia, and radiation. 00:42:00 A listener asks Ken about how to deal with the “keto flu” mentioning that he remembers being given salt tablets by his coach when he was younger, but is unable to find them now. In his response, Ken mentions Robb Wolf’s LMNT electrolyte product and an article on Virta Health’s website that addresses electrolytes and the importance of managing potassium and sodium as part of a well-formulated ketogenic diet. Links: Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio

Our guest today is Dr. Christoffer Clemmensen, an associate professor and lead researcher at the University of Copenhagen’s Novo Nordisk Foundation Center for Basic Metabolic Research. Christoffer’s lab at the university explores pharmacological and therapeutic treatments for obesity and its related diseases and disorders. He and his colleagues focus on dissecting the neuroendocrine signals involved in coordinating appetite, food-motivated behavior, energy expenditure, glycemic control, and lipid metabolism. We have a fascinating discussion with Christoffer about his lab’s efforts to turn molecular and physiological insights into innovative therapeutic strategies that Christoffer hopes someday can reduce obesity and its associated metabolic disorders. Christoffer is a native of Denmark who earned his Ph.D. in Molecular Pharmacology from the University of Copenhagen in 2013. Joining Ken for today’s interview is IHMC colleague and senior research scientist Dr. Marcas Bamman, who was our guest on episode 116. Marcas is the founder and former director of the University of Alabama at Birmingham Center for Exercise Medicine.  Marcas joined IHMC last year as a Senior Research Scientist. Show notes: [00:03:24] Marcas asks Christoffer about growing up in a small rural town in Denmark in the 1980s and ‘90s. [00:04:05] Christoffer’s talks about his days as an elite tennis player when he was a youth. [00:04:41] Ken asks Christoffer when he first became interested in science. [00:05:48] Marcas asks Christoffer what changed his mind about wanting to study computer science at university. [00:07:04] Christoffer explains how he decided to attend University of Copenhagen. [00:08:19] Marcas mentions that Christoffer’s original focus at university was on exercise biology, but that he became fascinated by the mechanisms of obesity and that interest took him in a new direction. Marcas asks how that shift in interest came about. [00:10:01] Marcas follows up on the previous question and asks if there were a particular instance that persuaded Christoffer to switch from focusing on exercise to focusing more on weight control and obesity. [00:10:40] Ken asks what led Christopher to pursue a Ph.D. in molecular pharmacology after attaining a bachelor’s degree in exercise biology and a master’s degree in human biology. [00:12:11] Marcas asks Christoffer why he went to Munich, Germany, as a postdoctoral fellow at the Helmholtz Diabetes Center after completing his post-doc at the University of Copenhagen. [00:14:00] After mentioning that Christoffer eventually became the group leader at Helmholtz, Ken asks Christoffer why he then transitioned back to the University of Copenhagen. [00:14:52] Marcas asks Christopher to talk about the big questions that get to the heart of his research. [00:16:20] Ken mentions that Christoffer is now an associate professor at the Nova Nordisk Foundation Center for Basic Metabolic Research at the University of Copenhagen, where he is the head of the Clemmensen Group. Ken goes on to mention that the Clemmensen Group’s website says the lab focuses on dissecting the neuroendocrine signals that coordinate appetite regulation, food-motivated behavior, energy expenditure, glycemic control, and lipid metabolism. Ken asks if Christoffer could give an overview of what all these research focuses entail. [00:18:17] Marcas mentions that obesity and its related diseases, such as type-2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease, have become serious problems affecting the world’s public health and global economy. Marcas goes on to say that Christoffer’s 2019 paper titled “Emerging hormonal-based combination pharmacotherapies for the treatment of metabolic diseases” makes the observation that the treatments we have been using to deal with this problem have not been able to effectively reverse the staggering rates of obesity we’re witnessing around the world. Marcas asks Christoffer to talk about this paper and how it underscored the need for better treatments of obesity. [00:19:48] In light of the need to target multiple signaling pathways to effectively treat obesity that Christoffer described in his 2019 paper, Ken asks Christoffer to explain the hormonal-based pharmacotherapies that he has been looking into as potential treatments for obesity. [00:21:58] Marcas asks Christoffer why an overwhelming majority of people who do manage to lose weight end up gaining the weight back, and what are the most effective therapies to help keep the pounds off once a person does lose weight. [00:23:56] Marcas mentions that Christoffer followed his 2019 paper with a review in PLOS Biology that looked at the evolutionary and environmental perspectives on human body weight. The paper asks the question, “Why are we not all obese?” Marcas, considering that poignant question, asks Christoffer why everyone isn’t prone to gaining weight in the same way. [00:26:44] Ken mentions that he has heavy doubts that our species experienced a recent biological change that would have caused a massive increase in obesity within the last 30-80 years, given that only a few decades ago most people were slender. [00:27:52] Marcas asks about the elusive slimming gene, mentioning that biologists have identified the physiological agents that keep our fat mass from becoming too low, but have had trouble understanding the exact mechanisms that regulate excess fat. He asks Christoffer to expound upon the current research as well as evidence dating back to the 1950s for the existence of a blood-borne, weight-gain preventive molecule. [00:30:09] Ken asks Christoffer about other factors that regulate energy balance in the body. [00:32:10] In light of the fact that a chronic state of positive energy balance leads to weight gain, Ken asks Christoffer what he believes is the key pathway to target, whether it be appetite control, energy expenditure, or a combination of both. [00:34:14] Marcas asks Christoffer to explain the remarkable differences between brown fat and white fat, and in this context to summarize his 2018 paper in nature communicationsthat described the potent effects of stimulating brown fat thermogenesis with a drug called icilin. [00:37:14] Marcas mentions that Christoffer’s paper in PLOS Biology addressed how geneticists are starting to uncover potential weight-gain defense genes. The paper, however, argues that for humans to fully benefit from such research, physiologists will have to play a role in the interpretation of such genetic discoveries. Marcas asks Christoffer what kind of collaboration he thinks is necessary between physiologists and geneticists. [00:39:08] Ken asks if the fact that the human genome has stayed stable throughout the rise in obesity over the past several decades suggests that epigenetic modifications play a role, and if Christoffer thinks that differences in obesity susceptibility across individuals might be partially explained by differences in the epigenome. [00:41:28] Marcas asks what the current status of pharmacological obesity treatment is and if Christoffer anticipates that landscape changing in the near future. [00:43:43] In terms of translating promising results in rodents to humans, Ken asks Christoffer to describe the specific challenges we face in using rodents to understand obesity in humans. [00:47:18] Ken mentions the overreliance on weight and BMI as measurements as opposed to body composition, which depreciates the value of muscle as an energy storing organ. [00:49:03] Marcas mentions that the model for pharmacological treatment of obesity seems to be leaning towards suppression of appetite. Marcas asks if such an agent were to be found, how successful does Christoffer think it would be in the long term if the pharmacotherapy was given in the absence of a behavioral change. [00:51:16] Marcas asks Christoffer to elaborate on his belief in the importance of omic-methods as well as how he is using such methods in his own research. [00:53:17] Ken asks about the greatest benefits, as well as the challenges, of using an untargeted approach to metabolomics profiling, which Christoffer wrote about in his 2020 article addressing molecular changes in the body following bouts of endurance and resistance exercise. [00:56:05] Ken asks how Christoffer decided which metabolites to study more closely in the aforementioned study. [00:57:14] Marcas mentions that Christoffer’s aforementioned 2020 study focused on physiological changes that took place within a few hours of exercise. Marcas goes on to mention that efforts are underway to better understand such acute molecular changes in the context of longer-term training, as the acute responses to exercise in a sedentary human are likely to be much different than the acute response of a trained individual. Marcas asks how we can learn from the range of responses in trained vs. untrained states as it pertains to weight management mechanisms or other health benefits. [00:59:08] Marcas brings up Christoffer’s most recent paper published earlier this year in Nature Communication, in which Christoffer asks the question: How does the exercise-and-appetite-related protein GDF15 act in different contexts? Marcas goes on to mention that the paper found that GDF15 acts differently based on whether it is endogenously produced or pharmacologically applied and asks Christoffer to talk about this in more depth. [01:04:00] Marcas explains that exercise-response molecules, of which there are a number, are dose dependent, which is to say that they are produced more, or stay in the body longer, depending on the mode and or intensity of the exercise. He goes on to ask if GDF15 has any dose dependency associated with it in respect to the magnitude of elevation and time it stays elevated. [01:06:30] Marcas congratulates Christoffer on his research gaining more attention and his lab growing to about a dozen people. [01:07:57] Marcas asks Christoffer what he does to stay in shape and if he still plays tennis. [01:08:52] Ken closes the interview asking if this is Christoffer’s first podcast interview in English and if Christoffer enjoys listening to podcasts. Links: Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio

Today we have the second part of our interview with science and health journalist Gary Taubes. In the first part of our interview, episode 124, we talked to Gary about his new book “The Case For Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat Eating.” In today’s episode, we talk in detail about a growing body of research and evidence that demonstrates the health benefits and safety of ketogenic diets. We also address why there remains stubborn resistance to low-carb/high fat diets in some nutrition circles. Plus, Gary responds to common arguments used against the ketogenic diet, ranging from health and safety and climate change to claims that ketogenic diets don’t work for women. Gary turned to journalism back in the 1970s after receiving his master’s degree in aeronautical engineering from Stanford University. Today, he continues to practice journalism and is the founder and director of the Nutrition Science Initiative. Be sure to check out part one of our interview, as well as our 2016 interview with Gary which followed the release of his New York Times best-seller “The Case Against Sugar.” Show notes: 00:02:58 Ken starts part two of our interview with Gary by mentioning that there is now substantial evidence supporting the efficacy and safety of low-carb diets. Ken mentions more and more physicians are prescribing this way of eating to their patients and large numbers of people are having success losing weight and managing type-2 diabetes using ketogenic diets. In light of that information, Ken asks Gary for his thoughts on why the U.S. News and World Report annual diet ranking stubbornly continues to describe the ketogenic diet as a detrimental way to eat. 00:09:25 Ken asks Gary to respond to some of the common arguments against the ketogenic diet ranging from human health and safety to climate change. 00:12:50 Ken asks about the claim that people on a ketogenic diet might lose a lot of weight in the short term but gain that weight back in the long term. 00:13:56 Gary tackles the criticism that ketogenic diets do not work for women. 00:16:02 Ken asks Gary to address concerns about the supposed unsustainability of ketogenic diets, noting how it is possible some people might have difficulty maintaining the diet for long periods of time. 00:19:20 Ken supposes that perhaps some of the anxiety surrounding a low-carb/high-fat diet has to do with LDL cholesterol. Ken mentions that some people on the diet, often referred to as hyper-responders, experience elevated levels of LDL and are warned by their physicians that this increases risk for heart disease. Ken asks Gary what he thinks the road forward should be for hyper-responders and others who are anxious about their LDL levels. 00:28:55 Dawn mentions that in 2018, Lancet published a study that aimed to make sense of the increasingly crowded world of low-carb diets. The authors, a team from Harvard, studied more than 15,000 American adults (aged 45-64) from four different communities over a 25-year period using dietary questionnaires. Dawn goes on to explain how these questionnaires revealed that consumers of both extremely low-carb diets and extremely high-carb diets had higher death rates over the course of the study. The lead author of this study was quoted as saying, “Our findings add to the growing evidence that animal-based low-carbohydrate diets are associated with increased mortality and therefore should be discouraged in the long term.” The last line of the paper reads, “Alternatively, when restricting carbohydrate intake, replacement of carbohydrates with predominately plant-based fats and proteins could be considered as a long-term approach to promote healthy aging.” News outlets described this paper as “the most comprehensive study of carbohydrate intake done to date.” She asks Gary to respond to this study and its conclusions. 00:39:31 Dawn asks what Gary’s ideal study design would look like to examine the safety and efficacy of the ketogenic diet. 00:42:30 Considering the recent birth of initiatives like EAT-Lancet, Dawn asks Gary if he sees the diet-science world moving in a more positive direction. 00:45:36 Ken asks Gary to elaborate on his view that the tools and equipment we use in science often shape the way researchers perceive the phenomena they observe. 00:50:21 Dawn asks Gary what it’s like being married to someone who prefers a mostly vegetarian diet. 00:51:52 Dawn mentions that even more than nutrition science or public health in this country, Gary’s interest has always been understanding the difference between good science and bad science. Dawn asks when Gary will write a book on that topic. 00:53:35 Ken mentions how the media often promulgates the notion that “science proceeds by consensus,”and that if the majority of scientists agree on a topic it is societally decided to be true. He goes on to say that this, of course, is not how science works, and the increasing attempts to squash criticism of established thinking parallel Gary’s career since the early 2000s. Ken asks if Gary has any more thoughts on this phenomenon. 00:57:12 Dawn closes the interview by asking if it is true that Gary had a high school guidance counselor who tried to put Gary in his place by saying Gary was “no Einstein.” Links: Gary Taubes bio Gary Taubes on Amazon Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio  

Today we have journalist Gary Taubes making a repeat appearance on STEM-Talk to discuss his new book, “The Case for Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat Eating.” Our interview with Gary in 2016, episode 37, followed the release of his book, “The Case Against Sugar,” which went on to become a New York Times best seller. “The Case for Keto” is Gary’s fourth book about diet and chronic disease. Gary made national headlines in 2002 when he wrote an article for the New York Times Magazine challenging the low-fat orthodoxy that had held sway in America since the 1970s. In the article, titled “What if It’s All Been a Big Fat Lie,” Gary wrote that perhaps Dr. Robert Atkins with his Atkins Diet was correct in suggesting that it’s not fat that makes us fat, but carbohydrates. Our conversation with Gary covered a lot of ground, and we have divided his interview into two parts. Today we talk to Gary about his reasons for writing the new book and how opinions on a low-carb and high-fat diet have changed over the past 20 years. In part two of our interview with Gary, we dig deeper into his efforts to set the record straight about the role of diet and weight control in preventing chronic diseases, as well as the role that diet plays in helping people improve their health spans. Gary turned to journalism back in the 1970s after receiving his master’s degree in aeronautical engineering from Stanford University. Today, he continues to practice journalism and is the founder and director of the Nutrition Science Initiative. Show notes: 00:03:43 Dawn welcomes Gary back to STEM-Talk and asks how things went for him as a writer during COVID-19 and the lockdowns. 00:04:24 Dawn gives some background on Gary’s new book The Case for Keto, which is his fourth book to follow and expand upon a 2002 article he wrote for the New Times Magazine titled, “What if It’s All Been a Big Fat Lie?” She asks Gary if he ever anticipated writing four books about the relationship between diet and chronic disease when the article came out 20 years ago. 00:06:09 Ken mentions that Gary’s New York Times Magazine article questioned the effectiveness of low-fat diets, which the government’s dietary guidelines had been recommending since the late 1970s. Ken adds that almost overnight Gary become public health enemy number one, and asks Gary if he expected so much pushback as a result of the article. 00:10:53 Dawn describes how the release of Michael Pollan’s book The Omnivore’s Dilemma, which draws on work by both Gary and Dr. Atkins, seemed to change consumers’ eating habits. Dawn then asks Gary if he remembers seeing or being surprised by the disappearance of pasta and bread from restaurants and grocery shelves. 00:14:41 Ken notes that in the blurb Michael Pollan wrote for the jacket of Gary’s 2007 book, Good Calories, Bad Calories, Michael said the book would change the way people think about eating. While Gary’s work did not end up changing national heart, health and diet guidelines, low-carb and ketogenic diets have become quite popular since then. Ken asks Gary what he thinks is driving this interest in keto. 00:19:41 Dawn describes Gary’s 2011 best seller Why We Get Fat as a condensed summary of the research contained in Good Calories, Bad Calories combined with new research on hormonal-based weight gain. She mentions Gary’s argument that the medical community and the federal government has misinterpreted scientific data on nutrition over the past several decades in developing a U.S. food policy that recommends a low-fat diet. Dawn notes there has recently been a steady accumulation of studies supporting carbohydrate restriction and the safety of saturated fat since Gary’s first two books came out. She asks Gary if this trend has been rewarding to watch. 00:22:47 Ken mentions that Gary’s new book, The Case for Keto, is an attempt to rectify decades-old misunderstandings people have had about the ketogenic diet, weight control, and health span. Gary explains why he chose to tackle the topic. 00:27:15 Dawn notes that although the medical community is beginning to see the benefits of a ketogenic diet, many doctors still promote the low-fat Mediterranean diet because they believe it is safer in the long term. Gary outlines the relative safety of the ketogenic diet compared to a Mediterranean. 00:34:02 Ken asks Gary for his thoughts on the cartoonish portrayals of ketogenic diets that describe them as being comprised of Crisco, butter, and bacon. 00:38:55 Dawn notes that there are many degrees of carbohydrate restriction that can be termed low-carb and asks Gary if there is a threshold that people should aim for in order to derive the metabolic benefits of a low-carb diet. She also asks whether a ketogenic diet provides additional benefits over a low-carb diet that simply limits carbohydrates. 0042:49 Gary ends part one of the interview by discussing the effects of burning fat for fuel rather than carbs.