DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast

“He has been the best teacher because it’s just a matter of noticing and playing around with, what is the feedback that I'm getting from this other human being? And it’s just been absolutely amazing.” -Margaret Webb In today’s episode, Coach Jill Farmer sits down with Margaret Webb. Margaret is a Life Coach who specializes in coaching parents on ‘Parenting the child they didn’t expect while they were expecting.’ Margaret and her neurosurgeon husband of 25 years have their own story of the unexpected. Tune in to hear this story and find out what led Margaret down the path of Coaching and how she has been helping others to find the freedom in shifting expectations.   Margaret Webb is a parenting coach who specializes in supporting parents with children who are on their own developmental timeline or who simply march to the beat of their own drum. (ie. Autism, Anxiety, ADHD, ADD, SPD, Apraxic, Dyslexic, Learning Differences, etc.) She and her neurosurgeon husband of 25 years thought that they knew what to expect while they were expecting their now 17 year old son but quickly learned he had other things in store for them. Turned out that the most powerful and helpful lessons for them involved shifting their own expectations and internal rules rather than placing all of the focus on him.  You can find Margaret Webb on her website, MargaretWebbLifeCoach, you can email her at margaretwebblifecoach@gmail.com or you can find her on Facebook and Instagram. Excerpts from the show:   “So let's talk a little bit about your specific journey. You were working full-time as a busy teacher helping to support your husband. He was on the very long and arduous path of medical training to become a neurosurgeon. So then you guys decided it's getting to be time where you might want to become parents yourselves. Pick up the story there, if you would.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “Yeah. We got married when we were 23. So we're about to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. But he was in his research year of his residency and we thought, ‘Ok, this will be an ideal time, because he'll be home more and we're almost at the end stretch of his neurosurgery residency.’ So we decided, ‘Ok, we're almost 30, this will be a great time to get pregnant.’ So we did and from there things got really interesting because things did not go as we expected. We got pregnant and then spent a year in Auckland, New Zealand ...before his chief residency year. He actually had to go to Auckland before I gave birth. I had the choice to either leave my teaching job when I was 30 weeks pregnant so that I could go with him and be over there in time to give birth or I could stay back in the states. So I chose to stay in the states to finish out my teaching year and then have our son at the hospital with the doctors that I knew. So he was not there when I gave birth, which was a very interesting thing because we ended up needing to have an emergency C-section and me not having medical knowledge didn't realize, ‘Like oh, maybe we should just demand to have this sooner than later.’ It ended up that our son had the cord wrapped around his neck, so he was losing oxygen and all sorts of things happened as a result of that. So he was born and things progressed. We went to New Zealand and everything was hunky-dory. Then towards the end of our one year there, it started to become apparent around his one year birthday that things weren't going as planned. He wasn't babbling, he wasn't responding to his name, he wasn't waving bye-bye and so that kind of set up some red flags for us. After the year was up we came back to the states. Then he did his chief residency year and I went back to teaching. Andrew went to daycare and things got even more challenging. He did not want to sit at the table, he didn't want to do certain things that the other kids his chronological age were able to do. So that was the start of our journey.’ -Margaret Webb “So at that point, obviously, chief residency is not a laid-back year and you're trying to juggle parenting and your own career as a teacher. And feeling like, I know from previous conversations we've had, ‘I am a teacher. I should be able to handle this. We've got this. We've got a teacher and a brain surgeon, we can do this with this kid.’ So what was your behavior like at that time and what were you trying to achieve during that early time of knowing that maybe Andrew was on a different path from at least the other kids in daycare at that point?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer  “So we definitely had been high-fiving each other beforehand thinking, ‘All right, we got this thing in the bag. We are going to be the best parents possible for this child based on our experience.’ At that time I went into full-blown warrior mode where I was just like, ‘Ok I've got to fix it. I've got to take care of everything.’ We had visited a pediatrician who happened to be one of the parents of the kids that I was teaching and she started asking questions and I got very defensive around anything regarding differences showing up with my child because you know it was like, ‘Oh my gosh, this is my baby, why are you saying this about my child? Like he's just a late talker, he's just like Einstein. You know, he's brilliant, clearly.’ So there was a lot of defensive warrior energy where I just really wasn't willing to accept that there might be something different. Now I did accept help in the form of a speech pathologist and play therapist who came to our house. We did evaluations, we did the hearing screening, we did all sorts of stuff but at that point in time because he was doing his chief residency year, I felt like I needed to take on everything and make sure that everything was done so that when he came home he got to be ‘park man’. You know, he'd come in and our son would grab him by the hand and take him down to the neighborhood park and they would goof around and swing. So it was very important for me to make sure that they had their relationship and that they maintained that. Looking back now, I realize that it was at the expense of not really bringing him in and allowing his input and support. Like we would go and do MRIs and I would do it by myself. They always ended up being a horrible horrible experience. You know, looking back, I'm like, ‘Ok, he would've been the perfect person to bring. Which I eventually did because I'm like, ‘He would know the language, he would know how to communicate certain things.’ But at that point it was like, ‘Ok I just need to do this all myself,’ which was not good.” -Margaret Webb “So the final question in this part of the conversation, update us now on how hilarious and funny 17 year old Andrew is doing today.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “Yes, he is doing absolutely amazing. He's almost 18, which just blows my mind and he's super excited to become an adult. He thinks something magical is going to happen at 18 to make him suddenly independent, which cracks me up. But he's just kind of like Buddy the Elf. He's just joy and he loves being with other people and doing different things. He went to a social hour the other night with my mother-in-law and there was somebody in the parking lot. As I opened the door, she came over and she said, ‘I just have to say, ‘Do you realize what a joy your child is?’ He's just unapologetic of who he is and will compliment anybody. You know like, ‘Wow you look so beautiful’ or ‘I love your shirt.’ He doesn't have an ego and he doesn't have a social self filter which makes it so fun to be around. Now granted, he's also a teenager for the most part he is who he is and he continues to encourage me to be me unapologetically. I think these kids have a lot to teach us.” -Margaret Webb   Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now        To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

“Constructive conflict is kind of like how diamonds are formed by a little bit of pressure. Sometimes when we're in a group and we're pushing back against each other's ideas and saying, ‘Yeah but,’ out of that comes new and innovative ideas, something fresh.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer In today’s episode, Coaches Gabriella and Jill sit down to talk about dealing with conflict. Many of us avoid conflict. Why? Because it’s downright uncomfortable. But having those uncomfortable conversations can sometimes lead to growth and other positive things. If nothing else, we learn from it. Tune in to hear how to be the leader of your life by dealing with conflict, getting out of your comfort zone and having courageous conversations.  Resources from the show: The Beauty of Conflict: Harnessing Your Team’s Competitive Advantage by CrisMarie Campbell and Susan Clarke Excerpts from the show: “Gabriella, why do you think it is that some of us dislike conflict so much?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “It’s uncomfortable. I mean wouldn't that be the thing? That most of us just want to feel at ease and feel safe and feel comfortable. Conflict means that you have to step out of your comfort zone and deal with the elephant in the room and that is not always a comfortable place to be. So yes, most people will try to avoid the conflict. Now what I'm learning about conflict resolution at this point, is that it's important to kind of pick your battles. Are you going to spend your time arguing with someone over a parking spot? Where does your energy in terms of conflict resolution go? Again, from what I'm learning, it has to do with the relationship and how important that relationship is to you and how invested you are in finding a solution that works for both. So the first two things so far are, step one, step out of your comfort zone and be ok with being uncomfortable, because there's no resolution without discomfort. And number two, do you have a vested interest in that particular interaction and that particular relationship to go the extra mile to really see if you can find common ground? What do you think Jill, what have you learned?” -Coach Gabriella Dennery “Well what I learned that was helpful to me a few years ago when I was co-leading some leadership development stuff in a Fortune 50 company was this idea of constructive conflict versus non-constructive conflict. I was like, ‘What do you mean constructive conflict? There's never a time when it's good.’ Which somebody who can be conflict avoidant like me believes. And I was able to understand that constructive conflict is the type of conflict that has the purpose of embracing different world views and encouraging people to think differently. Constructive conflict is kind of like how diamonds are formed by a little bit of pressure. Sometimes when we're in a group and we're pushing back against each other's ideas and saying, ‘Yeah but,’ out of that comes new and innovative ideas, something fresh. There's all kinds of reasons and we're not going to get into tons of psychology around it. But you know some of us who are conflict adverse maybe lived in a home where there was a lot of conflict and it didn't feel safe to you or you observed at some point in your childhood that people were in conflict and that created some trauma around it. So I'm not being glib or unkind when I say that it doesn't feel good to us. I'm just inviting us and our more wise adult Self, you know the part of us with the capital S, to recognize that a lot of times adults can have differing opinions and different world views. And if we create a container to let that conflict be a little bit constructive, some meaningful things can happen. Like clarification of issues, learning more about each other and considering new ideas. So that's one of the things that comes up for me, what do you think about that Gabriella?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “As always, I agree. I like the idea of constructive conflict and not so constructive conflict. I think that's a brilliant point. Conflict does create a realm of creativity and new ideas and new possibilities and again it’s the willingness to be uncomfortable and go down in those spaces. And as you bring up, it's ok to disagree. It's ok to agree to disagree. Sometimes that's the end of the conversation. We agreed to disagree but that doesn't mean we're at each other's throats. So that would be one aspect of conflict resolution, sometimes it's time to walk away but with the agreement to disagree. Depending on how complicated the issue is, it can take several conversations. It's not something that's going to happen overnight. So are you invested in making those conversations happen? To go from avoidance to, ‘Ok, let's deal with this. Let's move into a territory where we can say, this needs to be resolved. Let's sit down and hash it out.’ It may take several conversations in several settings to do that but it's necessary. The last thing I wanted to add, Jill, is that it's easy to get all hyped up about a conflict. To get reactive about a conflict. It's easy to point fingers and blame. Especially when we're in those kinds of reactive spaces. At the same time, good conflict resolution from my understanding really has to do with looking at one thing at a time and trying not to pile on a bunch of different things. ‘But you said. But you did.’ As opposed to, ‘Let's deal with one issue.’ Again, I'm not an expert in this at all. I'm still learning about it and the question is whether or not it's a better approach to look at one topic at a time as opposed to trying to resolve a whole big pile of stuff. Just start with one thing, what do you think about that?” - Coach Gabriella Dennery MD “I think it's brilliant. And again, Adam Grant, who does some really great work in organizational psychology, says when somebody else gets defensive or aggressive then biologically we go right into defense or aggressive mode as well. So then what happens a lot of times my default is to turn into the prosecutor. ‘Let me give you all the reasons,’ right? And I'm prosecuting my case to win. So when I can recognize that I don't need to pile on the prosecution, I need to go, ‘Ok, let's go back to this one point, take a deep breath.’ Right? A lot of times when we're in an activated emotional state, that's where we are reacting without thinking and we're not responding. So one of the things I like to think about in conflict resolution is that emotional agility thing. I can still have my feeling. I'm not stuffing it down. I can even say I'm a little irritated right now or I'm triggered, I feel frustrated, take a deep breath and say, ‘So let's talk about this point. I hear you saying X’. Reflecting what the other person says can be another good way in a heated conversation. ‘I hear you saying this, this is how that makes me feel, this is how I experience that and I have a different idea.’ A lot of times it's just slowing down the back-and-forth where we just start flinging things at each other, so that we can have a little more space and a little more of what we would describe as a meaningful or courageous conversation and not just another petty argument where we're talking in the same circles. Sometimes it can help us later on even if we said something that we wish we didn't or we had one of those, ‘Oh gosh, why did that happen?’ moments. It's ok to ask ourselves what the other person felt threatened about, just be curious, like you're an anthropologist, and ask yourself what was happening in that situation. And then for yourself, what was feeling threatened for me? For me, a lot of times it's the ability to be right. I don't like being threatened by that. And then I can be like, ‘Oh you funny little person Jill, once again you're trying to be right.’ And who cares if you're right? What if you can both be right? How do we make space for that? So those are ideas I think that can help us when it comes to conflict. And I think you and I are both proof that sometimes even though we don't love conflict, we both have had experiences of being willing to have those courageous conversations and what we would describe as a little bit of that constructive conflict. And moving through the resolution there, can be some of the benefits from it as well.”  -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians.   Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

“I admit that I’m a recovering people pleaser. In that recovery process, I thought, ‘something is wrong, I feel irritated by what this person just said to me. But I can’t seem to stop it because I’m here to serve. Therefore it’s okay, I’ll just tolerate what is happening.’ And it could be any number of examples, whether it was patients, colleagues, or even at home.  I wasn’t terribly good at setting boundaries. And it became clear that it was exhausting, and really not a very self honoring situation to be in. So I had to learn how to to do it. It is not a skill I was born with. I don’t know if it’s a skill anyone is born with, and to be honest it is something you need to cultivate over time.” - Coach Gabriella Dennery MD   Join co-lead Coaches at DocWorking, Gabriella Dennery MD and Jill Farmer as they sit down to talk boundaries. We learn why boundaries are important and that they aren’t just important for us, but also for the people in our lives. We learn that having boundaries isn’t mean, it is actually helpful and the kind thing to do. Not having clear boundaries makes life and relationships messy but having clear boundaries cleans things up. Listen to find out how to implement boundaries in your life and live with the freedom it gives to you and those around you!   Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now  DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How! To learn more about DocWorking, visit docworking.com     We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Reach out to Amanda at Amanda@docworking.com to apply. And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast! Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

“Instead of getting together and playing cards, we get together and lift heavy weights. It's just been a great community to be in.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O. In today’s episode, host Dr. Jen Barna talks with pathologist Dr. Shellaine Frazier. But she isn’t only a board certified anatomic and clinical pathologist, she is also a world champion weightlifter! They discuss everything from how she came to be a pathologist to how she discovered her passion for weightlifting. From there, they discuss community building, building bone density as you age, and more!    Dr. Shellaine Frazier attended medical school at Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, she completed her internship at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation, she completed her pathology residency at University of Missouri Health Care. She is the Associate Professor of Clinical Pathology at the University of Missouri and also the Medical School Curriculum Oversight Director.   Books and articles mentioned in the show:   Lafontaine T, Frazier S: High Intensity Resistance and High-Impact Training and Bone Mineral Density – A Narrative Review: Part 1 NSCA Coach Feb 2019:6(1):16-20   Lafontaine T, Frazier S: High Intensity Resistance and High-Impact Training and Bone Mineral Density – Sample Training Program: Part 2   Robbins & Cotran Pathologic Basis of Disease, (click to purchase).   Excerpts from the show:   “Can you tell us about your decision to become a doctor and how you imagined life as a doctor would be?” -Dr. Jen Barna    “Yeah, so it's kind of a funny story. So my dad was a barber and he had a client that was a pathologist, which is what I am, and he would talk to him. You know how barbers are, they're kind of like therapists. So as he got to know him, he learned what the pathologist’s life was about and he said, ‘You need to be a pathologist.’ He said, ‘That’s the best money for the nicest life.’ So that was actually in junior high. I wanted to be a pathologist. So what happened after that was, I'm sure our audience is probably not old enough to remember the old forensic TV show Quincy from the 70s time period, but I watched that and I saw that Quincy had an MD after his name. So I was like, ‘Oh. I have to go to medical school to be a pathologist. Ok, well that's gonna be a long road.’ But I persevered and just having that goal in mind made me pursue opportunities to look into pathology. Of course, I was drawn in by the forensics and all the drama of that, which is not as dramatic as people probably think it is, as it's displayed on the TV show. As I took opportunities to shadow a pathologist, I learned what pathology was and how broad of a discipline it is. I actually decided I really didn't want to do forensic pathology at all. So I ended up just being a surgical pathologist. I'm board certified in anatomic and clinical pathology. But my career path has always been predominantly an anatomic pathologist in surgical pathology. So that's kind of how I got here and my dad was right. It is a really good job in healthcare. It's a good job for work-life balance.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.   “I want to hear about the weightlifting as well, because that is where you have become a world champion. So how did you go from doing aerobics at home to becoming a world champion powerlifter?” -Dr. Jen Barna   “So at one point after I'd done P90X and I started getting involved and running, I actually had a resident who was into triathlons and she said, ‘You need to do a triathlon.’ She was actually coaching a team in training. She said, ‘You need to go get your VO2 max tested.’ So there was a health and fitness center in Columbia and I went to go get my VO2 max tested there. The person that tested me was Tom LaFontaine. He has a PhD in exercise physiology. He's worked with world class athletes and he came in first or second in a world duathlon and I believe he made the Olympic team or was just shy of making the Olympic team in the kind of weightlifting where you throw the bar over your head... So he was sort of a biphasic athlete also and he had a very energetic personality. He told me I needed to join the gym and that I needed to lift more weights because it would help me with my running. Long story short, we worked together for quite some time. He and his wife at the time and I and one other woman at the gym got this idea to make a group of ‘older women on weights.’ I don't know if you’d call it a club because you don't have to qualify to be in it. But we started getting really involved with recruiting a really big team of people. It was probably up to 40 or 50 at the time just from Columbia. It was women between 40 and 70+ years of age that became power lifters. And we are competing in powerlifting. So I had gotten into a few meets just because Tom wanted me to do a few because unbeknownst to me, my biggest athletic gift is bench press. I just had a lot of aptitude for that and he recognized that, so he encouraged me to be in some meets. His wife and a friend were sitting in the crowd at one of our meets and they were like, ‘We can break those records.’ So from that the ‘Older Women on Weights’ thing was created. So we have this huge team of women that are competitive powerlifters all the way up to 70+ years in age.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.   “There are a lot of different powerlifting federations. We are pretty small on the scale of different federations of powerlifting and they all have their own records. We are without a doubt the strictest federation on drug control. We actually have drug-free in our name and that was very important to me because this was supposed to be promoting a healthy lifestyle, weight lifting as part of a healthy lifestyle, so that women, as they aged, could remain independent and not look like the 70-year-olds that a lot of 70-year-olds look like. So it was really important to me to be in a very strictly drug controlled federation. So that's predominately where I lifted, although I lifted in a few others. So that's the American Drug Free Powerlifting Federation. It's an all volunteer Federation. I'm actually the drug control officer, so I know that we strictly control drug use. Even a hint of anabolic steroids, and you're banned for life. So with that being said, there were a lot of open American records in my age group. So the way that records work is there's an open category which is the youngsters, mostly that's where the 20 to 39-year-olds fit. That's usually the most competitive age group. Then every five years after that. It's based on your body weight to weight lifted. So to win your age group doesn't necessarily mean that you lifted more than the person that weighed twice as much as you. It just means that based on the ratio of what you weighed to what you lifted, you did the best. I qualified in the United States to go to my first World meet which was actually in the United States. I qualified and I was super excited. That meet was ok, I didn't set any records at that meet. But from there on, I just kept lifting and eventually went to world meets in Belgium, France, Wales and England. I almost always win in the bench press and I used to almost always win my age and weight division in the deadlift. In the bench press at world level, I didn't beat people in the open category but in the United States I almost always won even in the open when I was in my 40s. I had my very best meet in the bench press when I was 48. I think the highest I ever lifted was 76.5 kg and that was at a body weight maybe about 51.5 kg.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.   “I’m still very involved in our resident recruitment committee. So I interview a lot of resident candidates for our department and I always ask them questions that nobody else asks. I'm like, ‘What do you do outside of work?’ And I usually say, ‘Don't tell me that you read Robbins, because I don't want to hear that you just read Robbins.’ Then I have to say, ’It's not a trick question, because you're going to spend four years of your life here and you have to be happy outside of the walls of the hospital. Not only do we have to like you, but you have to like us, and you have to like the community that you live in, and you have to have things that you de-stress with.’ Anyway, maybe I've run a few candidates off, I don't know. But I always tell them that.” -Shellaine Frazier D.O.   Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   Our New Virtual Courses ‘STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back’ and ‘A New Era of Leadership’ are Almost Here!  Learn More Now    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

“How are they going to make croissants and not have the recipe? A grocery list? Not have the equipment that you need to make something? It's the same concept. How are you going to be a Chief or Chair or the Dean or the Provost or whatever you want to be without having some sort of roadmap?” -Phyllis A. Dennery, MD, FAAP In today’s episode Coach Gabriella Dennery MD sits down with her sister, Dr. Phyllis A. Dennery, Chair of Pediatrics at Brown University, to have a frank and rich conversation. They discuss topics including leadership, women in medicine, race and medicine, medical careers, diversity and changing the culture of medicine, mentorship and so much more!    Dr. Phyllis Dennery attended medical school at Howard University College of Medicine, and completed her residency at George Washington University at Children’s National Medical Center. Her fellowship in Neonatology was completed at Case Western Reserve University - Rainbow Babies and Children’s Hospital, Cleveland OH. Phyllis A. Dennery MD is the Sylvia Kay Hassenfeld Chair of Pediatrics at the Warren Alpert School of Medicine at Brown University, Pediatrician-in-Chief at Rhode Island Hospital, and Medical Director of Hasbro Children’s Hospital. She is also Professor of Molecular Biology, Cell Biology and Biochemistry at Brown University.* Excerpts from the show:   “So tell me a little bit more about how you see your journey in medicine as a leader. What was the easiest thing for you and what was the biggest challenge for you?” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD  “When I first thought about medicine, as you well know, our family is riddled with physicians throughout the whole family and that was almost a premeditated or predestined choice to go into medicine for many of us in the family. However, at one point I sort of thought, ‘Oh, do I really want to do this?’ I thought about genetics. I wanted to be a geneticist and a scientist. But somewhere along the line I realized when I was an undergraduate that I really did want to go to med school and that was something that was a passion that I wanted to have. So I put my energy into it and said, ‘Ok, I'm going to get there and really make it work.’ So I ended up going to Howard University and enjoying medical school more than I thought. It felt very familiar. It's a lot of stuff I already knew in my mind, or that made sense to me. Then, deciding what to do next, when I was a third-year medical student I walked into the neonatal intensive care unit because we had a pediatric rotation. So now, we would never have a baby out in the open so somebody could reach in because that's not good safe practice and you know, infection control. But there was a tiny baby on a warmer bed and the attending physician reached over and placed her little finger into the space, and the little baby grabbed her little finger just like that, and I said, ‘Wow!’ I said, ‘I want to be a neonatologist because these little creatures that are so fragile will go on to become human beings that participate in this life! This is what I want to do.’ So I pushed for that. That was something that I really thought was my calling. So I realized I had to do a whole lot of things before I got there. I trained in pediatrics and then trained in neonatology and I did all those things, and then I finally ended up with my first position in neonatology at Stanford University.” -Dr. Phyllis A. Dennery, MD, FAAP ‘When I got there (Stanford University), I realized how important research was for me. I wanted to understand why these babies had problems with their lungs. What was causing the problems? Was it the oxygen we were giving in order to support them? And I studied that and I'm still studying that for the last 30+ years. So a strange thing happens in medicine. You're asked to serve as a physician doing clinical work, doing research, doing whatever you're doing in academia, but all of a sudden people say, ‘Well look, this person is doing so well as a researcher, as whatever.’ And they say, ‘Oh she'll be a great leader.’ Well, I don't know how those two connect but that's how people see it. If there is a connection between your skills in the lab or whatever research you're doing and you becoming a leader? So I was approached for many leadership opportunities to become a division director in neonatology. That's what took me to the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia where I spent the next 12 years after spending 14 years at Stanford. Twelve years of my career as a division director in that unit and of course, when you spend time there, you develop programs, and that became more fun for me. To think of strategically engaging people and building programs and making things happen and developing other people. How do you help other junior people learn about what their passion is and how they're going to make that passion happen? So I saw it as a way to pay it forward.  Then, after 12 years of doing that, they said, ‘Oh now you’ve got to do more.’ So I was recruited to be a Chair here at Brown University, the Chair of Pediatrics. So it's an opportunity to really engage others and to take people and help them see their way through this difficult and complicated path of getting a career that is satisfying and fulfilling. So that's kind of been the journey that I've taken and why I’m where I am.” -Dr. Phyllis A. Dennery, MD, FAAP “As far as leadership is concerned, did you feel like you knew what you were doing right off the bat?” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD “Unfortunately, that's what I say is wrong with that system. They don't prepare you as much as they should for the opportunity that they're saying you're so good at. They don't know that. But there's a lot of on-the-job learning. But there are many opportunities now that are much more clear about ways in which people can train to become what they are excited about. So now my journey continues and it's much more strategic about how I get to know what I am getting myself into in these next steps and these next opportunities. And so I took a lot of leadership development courses through various national organizations and also locally to better understand what are some of the pitfalls of becoming a leader. You want to be a leader that's inclusive. You want to be a leader that has a way of thinking that helps people and isn't reactive, isn't strident, isn't many many things. So there's lessons to learn. Because we all have our personalities. But sometimes we have to also understand how our personality traits might affect others and make their lives either good or bad.”  -Phyllis A. Dennery, MD, FAAP “Phyllis, I asked you before we started recording if you were the only black chair at your medical school.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD “My answer can be really simple, yes. But a much more in-depth answer would be to say I really hate the concept of ‘the first’ and ‘the only’. Because the whole point is where it becomes irrelevant. Where it's just as likely that you or your colleagues of color or the woman next to you could be that person versus it just being relegated to men. So right now we're so happy, ‘Oh there's the first this and the first that,’ but the reality is, it needs to become as normal and as accepted and as common as it needs to be for the population.” -Phyllis A. Dennery, MD, FAAP “What does that mean in terms of your work right now though? What is your impact on young doctors of color who are looking at you and saying, ‘Whoa’?” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD “Well, you know just my face makes a difference in young people who are looking at a website and say, ‘Oh,’ and they reach out and they say, ‘Oh, I'd like to talk to you, work with you, do something with you.’ It's a bit easier for me to recruit someone who is of color. So the higher you are in the hierarchy, the more impact you have on who will be there with you. So it's so much easier for me to recruit someone who is like me. I can have much more credibility as a recruiter of these people into my department by saying, ’It’s safe to come here, it's a good place to be. It's a place where you could grow,’ than someone who doesn't represent what I represent. Sometimes they don't come. But one of which, a really brilliant guy, he's now my mentee. He said, ‘I’d like you to mentor me.’ We meet monthly or every month to talk about his career path and I send opportunities his way. So there are ways in which by just being who we are we can help grow that group so that we are not the only one. That's my passion. My determination and what I do is that I feel like a lot of people talk about, ‘Let's diversify the medical school class, let's diversify this one that one.’ Doesn't matter as much in my opinion. I could get a lot of people all upset. But if you have a leader who represents that diversity, so that now you can keep bringing more residents and students and fellows of color into the mix. So it's not that it doesn't matter to do it from the ground up. A lot of people use that strategy. The question is, that pipeline is awfully long and ‘leaky’ in that you send people elsewhere too. But if you bring people into leadership, you can make a difference in that culture. Because someone gets on their bully pulpit and says, ‘No we're not going to accept these micro aggressions. This very white supremacist educational model where you don't think about these things, and how they affect us, and make us feel like we don't necessarily belong.’ The other day some white man was talking about how just not having bandages of color can influence a child in thinking they are outside of the norm. So why aren't we having bandages that are brown and beige and not just white or light? Similarly, when we show a picture of a disease on a white skin, do we now prevent people from seeing and understanding how that disease would look on a brown skin? There's so many things that, only people who are thinking about that, can help change the medical curriculum and can help broaden people's perspective of disease and what's normal. I can play a role as a leader and not feel that I'm going to get reprimanded for saying things. Saying we don't have enough women in leadership at our university. We have two women chairs in the medical school and one is me as a woman of color but there's just two. If you add the Biomed (Department) there's maybe one or two more, so it's very limited when you think about it. So we have to make a difference there.” -Phyllis A. Dennery, MD, FAAP *“Phyllis A. Dennery,” vivo.brown.edu/display/pdennery Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

Failing Forward: Turning Mistakes Into Stepping Stones for Success is a book by John C. Maxwell, you can find it here   “We’re kind of wired as humans to grow and to live our most meaningful, richest, flourishing life when we step out of that comfort zone, step out of the box and break the cycle of monotony in our lives by being willing to try new things.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer   In today’s episode Coaches Gabriella Dennery MD and Jill Farmer talk about having the courage to try new things and why that is so important. So when was the last time you stepped out of your comfort zone and tried something new? Recently? Awesome! But if you’ve just been going through the motions lately, this episode is for you. Remember to give yourself grace through the process, let go of perfectionism and have fun!      Excerpts from the show: “Most of the time when people come to me with great fear and trepidation and all kinds of reasons why it's a terrible idea to try something new, it's because they're convinced that if they're not certain whatever it is will be a wild success or they're going to be perfect at it, they feel like something is wrong and therefore they shouldn't try it. So a lot of my encouragement and coaching around when somebody has this kind of spark or inspiration to want to try something new and then the other part of the brain that is saying, ‘Don't try something, you're not going to get this right, you're going to screw this up.’ They tend to want to default and listen to the voice of doubt or inner critic, the part of them that is saying, ‘You can't do it’ and pull back into that safe place. The problem with that is, of course, we're kind of wired as humans to grow and to live our most meaningful, richest, flourishing life when we step out of that comfort zone, step out of the box and break the cycle of monotony in our lives by being willing to try new things. So the price of admission for letting that caution voice always be the one telling you that it's uncertain, unsafe, better not try it, which is really strong in doctors and I love that a lot of doctors have a really strong voice of caution to try to keep everything safe for those that they're serving. We're not asking you to change that part of you that has prudence and caution. It's just to recognize that sometimes that can be a little over developed when it comes to things in your life that have lower stakes potentially that you could try and develop. And the price of admission for that is that you lose the reward of mastering new things, playing with new things, learning new things when you stay stuck in those old ways.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “I think you bring up an important point. How do you distinguish between the caution that you need to exercise at work to make sure that you mitigate risk for your patients and for your colleagues etc. etc. and what happens at home and outside of work? The ability to avail yourself of new ideas and new opportunities and a quality of life that may be different. You know, to expand your quality of life. It's easier to take that work philosophy home. So to be able to separate the two, I think it's about stepping out of the comfort zone. It's like, ‘Ok it's safe for me to try in-line skating now because I don't have to do that at work. I can do that at home. Yes, I may crash a few times and I'll need a few Band-Aids and I may look foolish. No, I won't master the first time on those skates, but I get to have a little fun and to learn something new that I've been curious about.’ It's kind of a mundane example, but a lot of times it's about knowing that work is work and play is play or outside of work is outside of work. It may not necessarily be play, it may be other things that you're interested in. So what do you think in terms of coaching and in terms of encouraging somebody to try something new, whether it's at work or in other situations? Is it fair to say that part of the encouragement is to say, ‘You're not necessarily going to be great at it right away?’ How do you approach that perfectionism, that need to get it right, that need to master everything right off the bat? And is it more of a need to impress somebody or to make sure it's done right as opposed to going into the situation with the curiosity of a child, with that growth/learning mentality which says there may be times when I'm going to suck and that's ok? What has been your experience with that and trying to push people out of that comfort zone?” Coach Gabriella Dennery MD “Well, what I like to tell people is there's just a lot of brain science behind the idea that when we have a growth mindset, which is what the work of the masters in positive psychology, which is really the science of success, positive psychology isn't about being a peppy person, it's how do we work with people who are on the well side of the psychological scale and help them thrive instead of just surviving. And one of the things we know about that science of success is that people who have a growth mindset, which means they look at a challenge or something new as an opportunity to learn, they are happier and more successful than people who look at challenges with a fixed mindset, which is what I call problem stalling instead of problem-solving. ‘Here's all the reasons that it's going to be hard and I'm not going to be great at it and I might make a mistake.’ So we know in that science of success also, that we have to set ourselves up to be allowed to make mistakes because mistakes are how we revamp. I'm not talking about mistakes that are going to harm patients, obviously. Since we're talking to physicians here, we understand that we're not encouraging that. But I find a lot of physicians are really uncomfortable with setting themselves up or making space for making mistakes anywhere and being willing to revamp and being willing to use those mistakes as data. I know you've heard me say it before, but I love what Richard Branson has said about the reason that he's so wildly successful. It's because he has a bigger capacity for failure and he kind of likes it when things go wrong because he feels like that's how he learns how to make things go right. I think that's what you were talking about. Making some space for mistakes to happen. Because that's data that can help whatever it is we're learning new and be more in line with what we want it to look like. And that's how we grow and actually thrive. When we have that setback, reconfigure, move forward motion, that's a really good place for humans to thrive.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “Absolutely. You're absolutely right about that. Because part of it and just speaking from experience being on wards and emergency rooms and CCU’s, it can potentially be a very judgemental environment and you don't want to make mistakes. Clearly for the sake of your patients and at the same time it's about how your colleague is judging you or how the chief is judging you or the chair is judging you. There's always a process of evaluation, of testing, of performance. So yes, getting out of your comfort zone in other arenas of your life or even in a career track or a different career choice can become difficult because of that fear of judging, that fear of being judged and being looked at in a certain way. You want to do the right thing, but what is the right thing? That is really still a very subjective thing. So to be able to allow yourself to just take a breath. To allow yourself to say, ‘You know what? I'm on a learning curve.’ For example, podcasting for me, although as much as I love it and enjoy it, it's still very new and I'm still on that learning curve. I've still got a lot to learn and I know I've made a lot of mistakes. At the same time it's learning how to enjoy that process. To fail forward instead of just seeing it as falling backwards and not trying again. So we get back on the horse. And yes, if it risks looking silly for a little while or sounding totally crazy for a while, that's ok, too. So it's being ok with making mistakes. I think that's the point that I think is a really really important point for why it is important to muster up the courage to try new things. You have to be ok to not be perfect and great with making mistakes and even relish in making mistakes so that you can learn and love it and laugh about it and say, ‘Wow, look at what it was six months ago compared to what it is today.’ And you enjoy the learning curve. You're able to just flourish in the learning curve itself. So that's what I love about it.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD   Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

“Burnout is a real issue and I feel like I got to that point where I was like, ‘I just can't do this anymore.’ And I don't think it's a good way to practice medicine. Especially what I do, cannot be done in a five to ten minute visit.” -Dr. Becky Lynn, MD, MBA, IF, NCMP       In today’s episode, Coach Jill Farmer talks with Dr. Becky Lynn. Dr. Lynn is the CEO and Founder of Evora Women’s Health, a concierge private practice. Jill and Dr. Lynn discuss what it was like to leave traditional medicine to open a concierge practice. We find out why Dr. Lynn made this choice, what the benefits are, if there were any challenges along the way, and she shares her tips for anyone considering delving into the concierge business model.    Dr. Becky Lynn is the CEO and Founder of Evora Women’s Health. She is also an Adjunct Associate Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Saint Louis University School of Medicine.   You can find her website here, her Facebook here, Instagram here and Twitter here.       “Can you tell us about your experience transitioning from a busy life as a practicing OB/GYN and professor full-time into starting this all new practice on that concierge model, and what that journey has been like for you? Is there one thing that surprised you most about your experience of making this transition over the last few years to this new practice?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer     “Well, I'm a planner. I used to be full-time faculty at St. Louis University. I left there and I spent all this time creating a business plan. I had this vision of how things were going to go. When I look back, I've been in private practice concierge for a little over a year, my business looks nothing like what I expected. So I almost have to laugh at that. I'm really happy about what it's morphed into. But when you start, you have this idea but then as things go along, things change. And then, not to mention I started in February 2020, so right as the pandemic hit. So if you can imagine, nothing was working as planned in April, May and a lot of March, too.” -Dr. Becky Lynn     “So being somebody who really likes to have a plan and have things turn out the way that you planned them to be, what you discovered is you have to plan and kind of hold it loosely, right? Because you have to be willing to pivot.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer     “Pivot, and you have to be flexible. You know, I really think that you try something and if that doesn't work you move onto your Plan B. You sort of learn along the way, and that's one of the things that I really enjoyed about my new practice, it's all about learning. I'm a lifelong learner. I love teaching, I love learning. So this has definitely been very eye-opening for me, a challenge for me, I love it, apart from the fact that I get to practice medicine in the way that I want to practice medicine. Where I have time with my patients, where I call them directly. The business model of concierge really works well. I just wasn't really happy with the short visits where you didn't have time to get to know your patients and get to the root cause of their issues or talk about preventative medicine and just being healthy. So apart from the fact that I love this model, I do love learning. So it's been a challenge and a good one.” -Dr. Becky Lynn     “I’ll also say that we do a lot of things here that are nontraditional. So I think that's been kind of fun to try things that are different, not as far as treatments or anything, we're pretty evidence-based and academic. But right now the way that it works we don't have one person usually specifically assigned to the front desk. My medical assistant will go to the front, bring the patient back, check the vitals, all that, but then they check out in the room. She goes back into the room and does all the check out in the room. Our office phone is a cell phone. Why not? We're concierge, you can reach us after hours on the weekend. So it's been kind of interesting to be able to think outside the box and not say, ‘Oh we have to have this many people at the front desk and this many people at check out.’ And not taking insurance gives us a lot of leeway to run as efficiently as possible. So it's been fun and interesting.” -Dr. Becky Lynn     “When I was figuring all this out, I felt horrible for my patients who couldn't afford me. Part of it is not fair. If you have money then you can spend an hour with your doctor. If you don't, you get a five minute visit and if you have a second problem you have to come back and pay another co-pay six months from now. So I did, I felt bad. And I really enjoy working with my patients and I like the patient/physician relationship. And I just couldn't bear to abandon my patients. So what I did is, I started a giving back to the community day. So that is the second Tuesday of every month. I see patients in my office regardless of ability to pay. So they can pay nothing, they can pay something, it just runs the whole gamut. I tell everybody they can bring me cookies, nobody's brought me cookies yet, but I’ll take them! It's just whatever they feel is appropriate. And I like doing that. That way I don't feel like only the wealthy can have time with their doctor or a thorough history taken or a thorough exam or talk about prevention and lifestyle and things like that. So that's one way that I've handled it. I started that from day one and I still have my giving back to the community day.” -Dr. Becky Lynn   Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

“Mindfulness, hobbies, gratitude, proper sleep, proper rest and proper nutrition, these are not necessarily things that can be compromised.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD    In today’s episode Coaches Gabriella Dennery MD and Jill Farmer discuss why it’s important to have hobbies and passions outside of work. We need these outside interests for so many reasons that Jill and Gabriella outline in this episode. Not only do hobbies and passions help us to access different parts of our brains but they can also connect us with different people outside of our work world and also a sense of community which we all need. These are things that can contribute to our mental and physical health and help us to thrive. Tune in to find out all the benefits of incorporating hobbies into your life!   Podcasts mentioned:  Episode 38: Procrastination: The Self Defense Mechanism We Can Do Without   Episode 35: Perfectionism: Why 100% at Everything Doesn’t Add Up   Episode 27: Interview with Dr. Ysaye Barnwell: Singer and Composer From Sweet Honey in the Rock, Author, Actress, Educator   Excerpts from the show:   “Why do you think it’s so important for physicians to find time to do things that light them up outside of their workplace?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “You need that creative juice. You need that creativity somewhere along the line and it's not just work related. I think if we could take work off the table for a minute, life is not just about that. There are other things going on. You need to recharge and I think one of our podcast guests said it wonderfully. Ysaye Barnwell talked about creativity and she said that sometimes you need to shut off one valve and open another one up and allow something else to come in. Just take a mental and physical break to recharge, to get the juices flowing, to have a different kind of community, a conversation. I took up African drumming when I was an attending physician within the first six months of starting my first job as an attending. I was in New York City and it was something I wanted to do, something I was curious about. I saw it on stage one day and there was a particular drum that I wanted to study. I said, ‘Well, I'm in New York City. This is the right place to be! Let's go for it.’ So I found a teacher. Within six months, I started a new job in July and by January, I was in drum classes. And to be around a different community of different people who didn't talk about patients and didn't talk about diagnoses and consultants. They were from different walks of life and they talked about anything and everything. And to be in a space where I was learning something completely different. So encouraging somebody by saying, ‘You know what? I know you think there's no time, and I think through the coaching work what's important is you realize that there is more time than we think there is.’ But even if you believe there is no time and there are other things that are more pressing or more important and a hobby is something you can just push aside… the hobbies are what you dig into even more when you're stressed. Why? Because it gives you that breathing room and that breathing space.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD  “Yeah, I love what you just said, I think it's really important. We talked about it in other conversations and other podcasts which I highly recommend folks tune into about procrastination and perfectionism. A lot of times people actually procrastinate doing their hobbies because they are so attached to the outcome. ‘Well I can't paint because I can't make a pretty picture out of it.’ This is an important time for us to really play with progress over perfect. It's the process not the outcome. The process is doing as you said, shutting off one valve and turning on another. The term that I use a lot of times with my clients is that we have to change the channel. As a kid growing up in the 70s before we got cable, I'm watching the Brady Bunch and all I've got is a bunch of white fuzz on the screen for some reason, you know whatever day there's not a good signal coming in. We had this trick where we would turn the channel and we’d watch a little Gilligan’s island for a while and then sure enough we’d come back and the channel was clear again. Our brains are a little like that too. We need to be shifting some of those neural pathways. We need to be reusing that glycogen in different ways and changing the channel is important. So one of the things that comes up in my physician clients who I'm encouraging to look for some ways to change the channel and to explore some hobbies and some interests and some passion, something that they're interested in outside of work. And they'll say, ‘Well I don't have any of those because I'm not good at it.’ So they're not a painter and they have no haute couture skills. They're not a drummer like you. I'm that way. I don't have any hobbies that are actually other high-end skills for me but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have ways to explore that. What do you say to people like that, Gabriella, who say, ‘Well I'm not good at anything else so how can I have a hobby?’” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “Understand that it's not just about the activity itself, it's a benefit you get from it. So what are you going for? Are you going for perfectionism? Are you going for getting it right? So you don't do it because you're not going to be a world-class painter? I think my father sold three paintings in 86 years of life. It's not about that, it's about the pleasure of it. So where is your joy? Where is the pleasure? Where is that leisure time? And if you don't have a hobby, and I'm saying this to everybody, find one. Go for what you're curious about. And you can always drop it if it's something that you tried but it’s not interesting. So I'm curious about knitting, let me see how that works. Ok, that bores me. Let me find something else. Get curious. Go with where your curiosity leads. It doesn't have to be the next big thing. It doesn't have to be how you earn your living. It doesn't have to be your next business idea. It just has to be something that breaks the routine and helps you think and access your brain in different arenas. Where different pockets of your brain are activated you know. Get that creative right side brain going as opposed to always being about logical decisions. Stop being logical for a moment and be illogical. Have fun, go with your curiosity. Find stuff out. Ask people, ask your friends what they do. One thing I ask my clients is what hobbies did you have when you were growing up? What was fascinating to you then? What about your teen years or younger adult years before you went into that medical track? What were your personal side gigs that had nothing to do with money or performance but had everything to do with where you found your joy? That seven or eight-year-old kid knew what they were fascinated about, so if we have to go all the way back there then that's what I do until we find that thing. It may be something new, but just to tap into that curiosity again, that kid-like curiosity.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD “I love that so much. The hot track right here that we follow is what are you interested in and exploring it and also being willing to be more kid-like, like you said. As kids we would change our mind about stuff. Remember you'd be into something and then a couple years later you see that Aunt that you hadn't seen in a couple years and she’d ask if you were still into geodes and you're like, ‘No I'm not into geodes anymore.’ But that's ok. As a kid you thought it was ok and there was no crime in moving onto the next thing. And so I think to give ourselves permission as adults to play in that space is important. Another thing I realized around this subject over Covid times was I had kind of let my phone and my iPad become a bit of a hobby in a way that wasn't particularly satisfying to me. It was just a default mechanism more than a real place that was drawing me in out of curiosity. You know it's fine to play solitaire on your iPad, I thoroughly enjoy it and I'm not saying it's evil. It could be a really nice thing to do. It's just I let myself realize that was my default and there might be other things I wanted to do. So I've just come back to good old-fashioned reading mystery novels that I hadn't read for a long time. The other thing that I think is important that I know is something we're both passionate about, is looking for ways to be connected to other people. A sense of community is important to us. We know it's actually an antidote to burnout as well. So I love encouraging my physician clients to notice whatever they're interested in and are there places they can go be interested in that thing with other people? Whether it's sailing or needlepointing or biking or tae kwon do as you mentioned. Whatever it is. It's letting ourselves play. When we are hard workers and high achievers, which physicians are, we somehow think that play is for other people or for people that have more time on their hands, and we don't recognize that as creatures we were literally built to balance what we're doing in terms of effort with some play. It's part of our biology and we forget that.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

“We all know what a deep hole the Internet can be. A tremendous amount of misinformation, especially with medicine. So I personally think that the more physicians are out there really putting true evidence-based medicine, regardless of your field, it really does all of us a service.” - Dr. Marissa Tenenbaum In today’s episode, Coach Jill Farmer talks with Dr. Marissa Tenenbaum about social media. Social media can be a great way to build your brand, build your practice and also educate. But for doctors, it can be tricky. How much do you share? Does your employer place parameters around how you use social media? Is it worth the trouble? Dr. Tenenbaum walks us through how she uses social media, how she makes time for it, what saves her time and the benefits she has seen and more! Tune in to hear how she aces social media and don’t forget to follow DocWorking!  Dr. Marissa Tenenbaum is a board-certified plastic surgeon. She is an associate professor at Washington University School of Medicine. She is the program director of the Plastic Surgery Residency at Washington University. She is currently working at West County Plastic Surgeons.    Follow Dr. Marissa Tenenbaum here! DocWorking Podcast episode mentioned in the show: Episode 26 Physician Burnout: Proactive Steps You Can Take Today Excerpts from the show:   “Marissa, the reason I wanted to chat with you today is you do an excellent job of getting out in the world with social media. I really love following you to see what you're doing in work and life. I know from my own clients that I talk to all over the country that there can be a love-hate relationship with social media. So, I just want to talk to you a little bit about why you decided to use social media in your work and life and what it's doing for you.” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “So, this is a great question and it's such a hot topic. As a plastic surgeon I do think that in my particular field it really does lend itself to social media pretty well. Plastic surgery is very visual. So when you think about all the different channels of social media, I think Instagram is probably the most popular for us. For me, I certainly wasn't an early adopter. I had a lot of colleagues around the country that were using social media really really well and I was intrigued. I was on social media, but more of a private account, really just more the typical share with your friends kind of social media. I made a conscious effort about a year ago actually to flip the switch and try to incorporate a lot more of my professional life and I think there's a lot of different ways that you can do that in medicine. I'll just tell you what I did, and we can talk about some of the different ways if you want to. But what I did was try to have a sort of combination of some professional advice with specific regard to plastic surgery. So surgery, non-surgical kind of aesthetics like skin care, and injections and Botox and lasers and things like that. As well as wellness, and I did that because I think it is a particular passion of mine. Wellness, fitness, health, nutritional eating, etc. That's a particular passion of mine that I love sharing. But I also think it lends itself really well to plastic surgery and a plastic surgery audience and what they may be interested in. But then I also choose to share my personal life and my family. Not everybody does that. I think there are pros and cons to that. But the reason I chose to do that is because I think that one of the elements of social media for me and branding is for my patients or potential patients to get to know me as a person. I think in my field of plastic surgery that is a really important piece of it. You know, patients kind of feeling like they may have a connection with you, they kind of like your style, if you will. I think that can be really important, maybe less important in certain fields, but really important in plastic surgery. So that's sort of why I did it and a small piece of how I do it.” - Dr. Marissa Tenenbaum   “Any downsides that either you've experienced or that you've seen colleagues experience that we need to chat about?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer   “Absolutely. The downsides are that you're putting yourself out there a bit, you're making yourself vulnerable. Now if you do choose to (you can) really just focus on patient education, which just as a side note, I think is almost like a public service to all of us in medicine. I don't want to get too far off on a tangent on this, but we all know what a deep hole the Internet can be. A tremendous amount of misinformation, especially with medicine. So I personally think that the more physicians are out there really putting true evidence-based medicine, regardless of your field, it really does all of us a service, not just the patients. Starting with that I think it’s a bit safer. But once you do start kind of going into the world of, ‘Ok, I'm going to show a little bit more of my personal life,’ obviously you're making yourself a little more vulnerable. You're putting yourself a little bit more at risk of trolls and different people maybe some more negative, that can be challenging. And then you do have to be incredibly careful about HIPPA, obviously. So if you're discussing any patient issues, or again in plastic surgery we're very visual, and so we do have some patients who consent very specifically to allowing us to use their images on a website or social media. But of course, you have to be incredibly careful about that. And I certainly do know colleagues who have been burned in that regard, where maybe they haven't had the appropriate consent or something along those lines. That's really really not a place any of us want to be. The biggest thing though, I think, is those trolls. I think the more followers people gain or I’ve seen colleagues have to deal with some tremendous negativity especially as they get more followers. And trying to handle that professionally can be really challenging.”  -Dr. Marissa Tenenbaum   “All of my physician clients are perfectionists, so a lot of times I have to remind them that this is not surgery where we need to have a really perfect outcome.”  -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer   “Right, you can delete the post if you don't like it. I think the other thing that is challenging for a lot of us in medicine is obviously a lot of our personalities aren't necessarily personalities where we want to be on camera or we want to show off. It can feel really inauthentic to get on live stories or something. That does just take practice. Personally, if I'm being honest, I hate taking pictures of myself. I hate seeing myself on camera, I hate it. So I'm not as good at that part. I'm not good at going on stories every single day and walking you through my day. I see other people do that and I go, ‘Oh I wish I was better at that.’ But the more you do it, you get more comfortable just like anything, right? It’s practice.” -Dr. Marissa Tenenbaum    Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

Lisa Kuzman’s DocWorking courses on Diagnosing Your Leadership Style and Communication For The Win are coming soon to DocWorking.com! Please click here to let us know you’re interested and we’ll keep you updated on the go-live dates! “So the little bit of time to build that connection, is definitely going to serve you in the long run” -Lisa Kuzman Today’s episode is all about communication! Coach Jill Farmer talks with Lisa Kuzman about how we can improve our communication skills in order to improve our work and home life. Do you ever feel as though what you said wasn’t heard or that what you said was taken differently than you intended? If so, tune in to find out how to be heard and be understood and also how to hear and understand others.    Lisa Kuzman is a clinical social worker turned Leadership Coach for Women of Influence, who helps her clients understand how to create massive change without re-traumatizing themselves. She also provides trauma-sensitive certification and supervision for coaches in the personal development industry.    By blending her 15 years of mental health experience in healthcare, learnings from entrepreneurship, and personal trauma survivorship, she supports her clients with understanding how the high-risk threshold of running a business and showing up as a leader can trigger old stuff that needs to be attended to rather than ignored so it doesn't block one’s ability to create change.    While physicians earn a great wage and hold positions of power, medical training doesn’t adequately prepare one for the leadership acumen required to manage their multifaceted roles. Lisa’s approach to leadership, her background in healthcare, and her understanding of trauma offer unique insights that physicians can apply to every area of their lives.  Excerpts from the show:   “Lisa, why do you think that physicians might want to take a closer look at the way they communicate in their work or in the world?” - Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “Part of the reason why this is so important is because it is the most critical element of clearly helping people understand the task at hand, getting people on board and being able to move forward smoothly. Physicians are highly skilled at all the things that they do and communication is one of those elements that is really, really helpful for pulling it all together.” -Lisa Kuzman “The first mistake we're going to be talking about here that you've identified is underestimating the big picture. What do you mean by that?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “What I mean by that is in any given situation you have your environment, right? So you have all the people in the environment including you and your patient or the nursing staff or other auxiliary staff around you outside of the environment. You have the task at hand, you have however much sleep you got or didn't get, whatever may or may not be going on for the other parties involved, right? Everybody comes with a different perspective when it comes to communication and it can be really easy to arrive in a conversation and only think about it through your own lens. That is the way that most of us do approach communication. But there can be a lot of cues in the environment if you just expand your lens out a little further to look at the whole big picture. Including aspects for yourself and other parties involved and then even the environment. And it doesn't have to be a super in-depth thing. It can take 20 seconds of consideration. It doesn't have to be a huge extra task. But that can be an extremely helpful component for being able to shift and maneuver your way into or through communication to make it go more smoothly.” - Lisa Kuzman “So an example might be somebody who is in a hurry and is backed up, they might run in just to deliver information and it can backfire because people will tell them later that they didn't hear or understand what they said. So would you say the technique for being able to help avoid this mistake as you said is just sort of just taking in the bigger picture? Just pause, and for instance look everybody in the room in the eye for a second? Is that a good way to take the temperature so to speak, of what the environment is, to help you calculate a better way for you to say what it is you need to say to get the outcome that you think is going to deliver the most help in the given situation?” - Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “Yeah, I think a quick pause is super helpful. I think the other thing is even just slowing down a touch, right? When moving really fast and juggling many balls in the air, sometimes what happens is that we're not really taking much time to breathe and we're kind of rushing around so we just simply missed something. Even just slowing down, taking a couple deep breaths before you step into a room, allowing yourself 30 seconds to kind of collect yourself or even just to make a little eye contact.” -Lisa Kuzman “Yeah, eye contact is one of those things I sometimes share with my coaching clients. If they’re really highly cerebral and they're used to thinking about things, they often are looking up and out to the left as their brains are kind of spinning and people will say, ‘You weren't talking to me’ and they're like, ‘Who else was I talking to? You're the only person in the room.’ But it's something that doesn't always come naturally to people. So I think that's interesting. So the second thing I want to talk about is that mistake that you have identified based on your experience in this realm, is physicians don't always think about positioning themselves in communication. What does that mean?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “Yeah, so I come to my approach around this from social work. Social workers often use what's called a strengths-based perspective. Essentially what I mean when I say this is, to know yourself well enough to know what it is that you might need to be a little more successful in communication. So that people hear you. So that your thoughts are collected. So that the point gets across. When we know it's going to go well for us or when it's going to go poorly for us we can adjust accordingly so that we can position ourselves for success.” -Lisa Kuzman “What might be a specific example of that? Or can you think of one that would help people put that into a practical example?” -Master Certified Coach Jill Farmer “Yeah, one of the things that always works for me is to really take the time to slow down. The eye contact we already mentioned. But being collected. I am somebody that can really ramble and go off on a tangent. I like to be chitty chatty and sometimes when there's not a lot of time, that's not really productive or helpful. Or if tensions are high, it's also not helpful. So one of the things I do is look at What is the number one thing I want someone to hear me say, that I want to get across? Because what I say versus what someone hears might be very different. So I come up with one to three things that I hope that people have as a take away from our communication. Then that helps me not ramble around with my words.” -Lisa Kuzman Check out Lisa's self-paced course called Communication For The Win which is specifically for physicians. If you want to dive deeper to find out how you can be a more effective communicator to deliver meaningful results this course is for you. Click here for more info and to get updates on when it goes live!  Check out Lisa Kuzman’s podcast, Serving it Hot, a podcast about Women in Leadership. You can find her website here or follow her on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn. Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran