The Lawfare Podcast

Dive into a whirlwind of national security updates, including a crucial bill that reshapes Trump’s immigration agenda. Hear fascinating insights on the Justice Department’s legal dance regarding TikTok's enforcement issues. Explore the complexities of immigration policies and the impact of AI regulations on civil liberties. The Supreme Court also makes waves with decisions on citizenship and class actions. Amid serious discussions, enjoy entertaining anecdotes on family travel and pop culture gems.

Ashley Deeks, the Class of 1948 Professor of Scholarly Research in Law at the University of Virginia School of Law, discusses her new book about the intersection of national security and artificial intelligence. She introduces the concept of a 'double black box,' where the secrecy of national security and the opacity of AI decision-making collide. Deeks tackles the challenges of oversight from Congress and the courts, the ethical tensions of AI in military contexts, and compares international AI regulation to the complexities of cyber norms.

Michael Feinberg, a former senior FBI counterintelligence agent focused on China, shares his unexpected resignation after being scrutinized for a friendship with a fired official. He discusses the emotional and professional toll of loyalty tests and the pressures within the Bureau. Feinberg reflects on his commitment to integrity, the challenges of navigating personal relationships in a politically charged environment, and his dedication to public service following his departure from the FBI.

Winnona Bernsen, a nonresident fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Cyber Statecraft Initiative and founder of DistrictCon, dives into the complex world of the offensive cyber industry. She discusses the staggering billion-dollar market for zero-day vulnerabilities and the procurement challenges faced by contractors. The conversation also highlights the contrasting cybersecurity strategies of the U.S. and China, revealing how national values impact hacking culture. With an eye towards the future, Winnona emphasizes the need for international collaboration and talent recognition in cybersecurity.

A lively discussion dives into the Trump administration's ongoing legal battles, focusing on notable immigration cases like Abrego Garcia. The implications of recent legislative changes, including protections for officials from contempt, are explored. The conversation critiques the politicization of the Justice Department and the impact of judicial decisions on asylum policies. Amid serious topics, there's a quirky celebration of Independence Day, complete with humorous reflections on a unique fireworks viewing room, highlighting the blend of law and lightheartedness.

Itsiq Benizri, a counsel at WilmerHale Brussels, dives into the recently agreed EU AI Act and its global implications. They discuss how domestic politics influenced the final legislation and the significance of its risk-based classification of AI systems. Benizri highlights the challenges in implementing the Act and the balance between fostering innovation and setting minimum standards. The conversation also touches on the regulatory approach to deep fakes, emphasizing the need for transparency amidst the rapidly evolving AI landscape.

Molly Reynolds, a Lawfare Senior Editor and Brookings Senior Fellow, joins Benjamin Wittes to discuss the national security challenges facing the newly appointed Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. They dive into critical topics such as aid for Israel, Ukraine, and Taiwan, revealing the complexities of military funding amid potential government shutdowns. The conversation also touches on the divided Republican perspectives on Ukraine support and the legislative hurdles surrounding national security funding, all underscoring the urgent and interconnected nature of these issues.

Teun Janssen, a policy advisor at the European Parliament focusing on EU expansion and support for Ukraine, engages in a thought-provoking conversation. He discusses Europe's potential to take charge of its security as U.S. involvement wanes. The complexities of Ukraine's EU aspirations are highlighted, along with the necessity for systemic reforms and collaboration among EU nations. Janssen emphasizes the importance of tackling corruption and enhancing governance to facilitate EU enlargement, while addressing the geopolitical dynamics at play.

Lindsay Cohn, an Associate Professor at the Naval War College and Columbia University, dives into the intricate world of civil-military relations during the Trump administration. She discusses the fallout from the unprecedented firings of senior military officials and the implications of prioritizing political loyalty. The conversation also explores the controversial use of military parades and involvement in civilian contexts, raising questions about public perception. Lastly, Cohn highlights military influence in elections, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a representative military aligned with democratic values.

In a compelling discussion, Lindsay Freeman, Director of Technology, Law and Policy at UC Berkeley’s Human Rights Center, delves into the disturbing phenomenon of 'war influencers' in the Sahel. She highlights how influencers linked to private military companies, like the Wagner Group, share graphic conflict content that often serves as disturbing self-incrimination. The conversation also addresses the lack of accountability for these war crimes and Freeman's efforts to close the impunity gap through legal frameworks and international advocacy. A thought-provoking look at modern warfare and its digital presence.