Fearless Creative Leadership

Keesha Jean-Baptiste is the Senior Vice President, Chief Talent Officer at Hearst Magazines. During her career, she's also been the Senior Vice President of Talent, Engagement and Inclusion at the American Association of Advertising Agencies (4A's) and the Director of Talent and Human Resources at Wieden and Kennedy. Keesha is brilliant. She is brave. And she is black. And all three of those attributes make her an extraordinarily insightful and powerful advocate for the work that companies need to undertake if their workforces are truly going to reflect society. Today, that work falls under the heading of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion or DEI - and there are many businesses that are filled with good intentions and meaningful efforts to improve their DEI performance. In some cases these efforts lead to tangible and lasting results. In others the work has little impact on the hiring practices or culture of the business. The difference in whether the work works, frequently comes down to one variable. The leader. I don't think it's ever been harder to be a leader. Less is certain and more is expected. There is less to rely on and more to invent. There are fewer shadows to disappear into and many more bright lights to bring the truth into sharp relief. One of the truths is that it's still disproportionately harder to be a minority in America. And if that fact is going to change, actually change, we need leaders who are willing to step forward and who know what to do when they find themselves standing in that light. My conversation with Keesha covers a lot of ground. She talks openly about her own upbringing, about childhood events that shaped her, and about how she sees the challenges and opportunities that leaders face today, as they struggle to come to terms with what's needed in DEI committed companies. It's a conversation that's filled with practical advice about a sensitive and complex topic. It's a conversation that will make you a better leader.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Keesha Jean-Baptiste is the Senior Vice President, Chief Talent Officer at Hearst Magazines. During her career, she's also been the Senior Vice President of Talent, Engagement and Inclusion at the American Association of Advertising Agencies (4A's) and the Director of Talent and Human Resources at Wieden and Kennedy. Keesha is brilliant. She is brave. And she is black. And all three of those attributes make her an extraordinarily insightful and powerful advocate for the work that companies need to undertake if their workforces are truly going to reflect society. Today, that work falls under the heading of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion or DEI - and there are many businesses that are filled with good intentions and meaningful efforts to improve their DEI performance. In some cases these efforts lead to tangible and lasting results. In others the work has little impact on the hiring practices or culture of the business. The difference in whether the work works, frequently comes down to one variable. The leader. I don't think it's ever been harder to be a leader. Less is certain and more is expected. There is less to rely on and more to invent. There are fewer shadows to disappear into and many more bright lights to bring the truth into sharp relief. One of the truths is that it's still disproportionately harder to be a minority in America. And if that fact is going to change, actually change, we need leaders who are willing to step forward and who know what to do when they find themselves standing in that light. My conversation with Keesha covers a lot of ground. She talks openly about her own upbringing, about childhood events that shaped her, and about how she sees the challenges and opportunities that leaders face today, as they struggle to come to terms with what's needed in DEI committed companies. It's a conversation that's filled with practical advice about a sensitive and complex topic. It's a conversation that will make you a better leader.

Julia Goldin is the Global Chief Product & Marketing Officer at The LEGO Group. How do you lead a business that depends on play? How do you deliver results today and build for tomorrow? How do you find yourself when your whole company is watching? And how do you build a team that dreams of possibility when the whole world is craving certainty? Leadership is a lot about pushing the boundaries. And if you're not doing that, you're not actually leading. You're just managing someone else's problems. But even if you show up every day willing to imagine new possibilities and fueled by a clear vision of a new future, you can only do that by yourself for so long. Eventually, if you're going to change the world, you're going to need help. And the more that those people are able to explore and adapt, the more they are willing to see change as an ally not a threat, the greater the success they will help you create. Encouraging the people around you to think and behave like children requires flexibility. On how you see them. And how you see yourself. In a world that's suddenly so serious, that seems risky and maybe even absurd. But the adults haven't done that great recently. Maybe it's time to let the children inside all of us see what they can do.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Julia Goldin is the Global Chief Product & Marketing Officer at The LEGO Group. How do you lead a business that depends on play? How do you deliver results today and build for tomorrow? How do you find yourself when your whole company is watching? And how do you build a team that dreams of possibility when the whole world is craving certainty? Leadership is a lot about pushing the boundaries. And if you're not doing that, you're not actually leading. You're just managing someone else's problems. But even if you show up every day willing to imagine new possibilities and fueled by a clear vision of a new future, you can only do that by yourself for so long. Eventually, if you're going to change the world, you're going to need help. And the more that those people are able to explore and adapt, the more they are willing to see change as an ally not a threat, the greater the success they will help you create. Encouraging the people around you to think and behave like children requires flexibility. On how you see them. And how you see yourself. In a world that's suddenly so serious, that seems risky and maybe even absurd. But the adults haven't done that great recently. Maybe it's time to let the children inside all of us see what they can do.

Gerry Graf is the Co-Founder of Slap Global. They describe themselves as a business accelerator fueled by creativity. Gerry is best known as the founder of Barton F. Graf 9000 - which he built into one of the most acclaimed advertising agencies in America. Business Insider named Gerry "The Most Creative Man in Advertising". Newsweek called him one of the "New Don Drapers". PBS featured Barton as one of the new innovative shops in "The Real Mad Men of Madison Ave". Forbes named Barton one of the 14 Most Influential Agencies in America. Fast Company named Barton one of the Most Innovative Advertising Agencies and Gerry one of the 100 Most Creative People in Business. And AdAge included Barton in their A-List issue 8 out of 9 years and named Gerry one of the 50 "biggest and best thinkers and doers from 20 years of advertising and consumer culture." Despite all of this, the company closed after ten years. Success and failure are cousins. So are risk and fear. You can't have one without the other. How we see them and what we learn from them shape the course of our lives. In a pre-pandemic world, a lot of leaders got their titles as a rite of passage or a reward for longevity. They weren't leaders at all. They were in the right place at the right time, and the playbook they used was well thumbed and easy to follow. We're living in a time in which the rules are different. Many of them no longer exist. And yet so many leaders are still trying to turn the clock back to 2019. Most of the references we hear today are about returning. But the winners will be those who re-imagine. Human beings, by nature, are creatures of habit and risk adverse. And the status quo is a compelling drug. But leadership has always been about looking ahead. About telling a story, building trust and keeping people moving forward. There's risk involved in all of that. You might be wrong. It might not work. Which is when leaders step forward and try again. Which, when you think of it, sums up the entire history of human evolution. What story do you want to write?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Gerry Graf is the Co-Founder of Slap Global. They describe themselves as a business accelerator fueled by creativity. Gerry is best known as the founder of Barton F. Graf 9000 - which he built into one of the most acclaimed advertising agencies in America. Business Insider named Gerry "The Most Creative Man in Advertising". Newsweek called him one of the "New Don Drapers". PBS featured Barton as one of the new innovative shops in "The Real Mad Men of Madison Ave". Forbes named Barton one of the 14 Most Influential Agencies in America. Fast Company named Barton one of the Most Innovative Advertising Agencies and Gerry one of the 100 Most Creative People in Business. And AdAge included Barton in their A-List issue 8 out of 9 years and named Gerry one of the 50 "biggest and best thinkers and doers from 20 years of advertising and consumer culture." Despite all of this, the company closed after ten years. Success and failure are cousins. So are risk and fear. You can't have one without the other. How we see them and what we learn from them shape the course of our lives. In a pre-pandemic world, a lot of leaders got their titles as a rite of passage or a reward for longevity. They weren't leaders at all. They were in the right place at the right time, and the playbook they used was well thumbed and easy to follow. We're living in a time in which the rules are different. Many of them no longer exist. And yet so many leaders are still trying to turn the clock back to 2019. Most of the references we hear today are about returning. But the winners will be those who re-imagine. Human beings, by nature, are creatures of habit and risk adverse. And the status quo is a compelling drug. But leadership has always been about looking ahead. About telling a story, building trust and keeping people moving forward. There's risk involved in all of that. You might be wrong. It might not work. Which is when leaders step forward and try again. Which, when you think of it, sums up the entire history of human evolution. What story do you want to write?

Michael Korda is the Editor-in-Chief Emeritus of Simon & Schuster. We could spend this entire episode talking only about the highlights of Michael's life. He grew up in 1930s London in a family of movie industry icons. As you'll hear, he became close friends with Graham Greene, traveled to Budapest to attend the Hungarian Revolution, and joined the RAF. He did all this before he turned 25. At Simon and Schuster he published books by Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Henry Kissinger, Harold Robbins and Jacqueline Susann, among others. He edited and published all 43 of Mary Higgins Clark's books, and most, if not all, of Larry McMurtry's books, including Lonesome Dove. As a writer, he published over two dozen books of his own, from the autobiographical to the definitive historical accounts of Robert E. Lee and TE Lawrence, better known as Lawrence of Arabia. He has lived several lives in this one, and helped countless others tell the story of theirs. He has survived wars, the London Blitz and cancer. And at the end of our conversation, I asked him about the role that fear has played in his extraordinary life. In a world growing more uncertain by the day, living a full and rich life is increasingly challenging. The media fills us with reasons to be afraid. And the debate between trying to stay informed, and trying to get on and live life can fill the mind with a Rubik's cube of choices. When you add on top of that, the challenges and risks that come with the responsibility of leading others, then the potential for fear to take over from rational thinking becomes a serious threat. Fear is a powerful force. In daylight we are embarrassed by it. At night, we are scarred by it. Rarely do we choose to shine a light on it. But it is only when we do, only when we admit to ourselves that we are afraid, can we hope to move beyond it. And only then can we help others to join us on the other side. And then, you can have a life so rich with possibility that it is unimaginable that everything you have experienced could belong to one person.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Michael Korda is the Editor-in-Chief Emeritus of Simon & Schuster. We could spend this entire episode talking only about the highlights of Michael's life. He grew up in 1930s London in a family of movie industry icons. As you'll hear, he became close friends with Graham Greene, traveled to Budapest to attend the Hungarian Revolution, and joined the RAF. He did all this before he turned 25. At Simon and Schuster he published books by Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Henry Kissinger, Harold Robbins and Jacqueline Susann, among others. He edited and published all 43 of Mary Higgins Clark's books, and most, if not all, of Larry McMurtry's books, including Lonesome Dove. As a writer, he published over two dozen books of his own, from the autobiographical to the definitive historical accounts of Robert E. Lee and TE Lawrence, better known as Lawrence of Arabia. He has lived several lives in this one, and helped countless others tell the story of theirs. He has survived wars, the London Blitz and cancer. And at the end of our conversation, I asked him about the role that fear has played in his extraordinary life. In a world growing more uncertain by the day, living a full and rich life is increasingly challenging. The media fills us with reasons to be afraid. And the debate between trying to stay informed, and trying to get on and live life can fill the mind with a Rubik's cube of choices. When you add on top of that, the challenges and risks that come with the responsibility of leading others, then the potential for fear to take over from rational thinking becomes a serious threat. Fear is a powerful force. In daylight we are embarrassed by it. At night, we are scarred by it. Rarely do we choose to shine a light on it. But it is only when we do, only when we admit to ourselves that we are afraid, can we hope to move beyond it. And only then can we help others to join us on the other side. And then, you can have a life so rich with possibility that it is unimaginable that everything you have experienced could belong to one person.

Justin Thomas-Copeland is the CEO of DDB, North America. He's a dynamic, charismatic leader with a long history of building successful businesses and creating change. It would be great if the state of society allowed us to end the story there. But for all of his many, many accomplishments, Justin's appointment generated attention because of one characteristic that is incredibly rare among CEOs of major companies. He's black. In fact, rare might be an exaggeration. For instance, the Fortune 500 contains four black CEOs. That's down from its all-time high of six. If the leadership of Fortune 500 companies simply reflected American society, there would be 67. It is beyond absurd, beyond outrageous that we even have to say this out loud. Things need to change. And Justin Thomas-Copeland is a change agent. We talk too often about leaders guiding their people through periods of change. But in a business fueled by its capacity to unlock creative thinking and innovation, change is not a temporary state but a permanent one. A company needs to be different tomorrow. It needs to know more and understand better. It has to have a higher tolerance for risk, a greater appetite for exploration and deeper self awareness. And that needs to be true every day. And what makes all that work is showing up as a leader with what Justin describes as the right intent. A set of values and beliefs that withstand the short term set-backs that get in the way, and which overcome the skepticism, the suspicion and the fear that greet most leaders who are trying to lead systemic change. The lack of diversity among the senior leadership of American business is a systemic issue. Changing it will require determination and trust at an unprecedented scale. It will require leaders who have the right intent. What's yours?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Justin Thomas-Copeland is the CEO of DDB, North America. He's a dynamic, charismatic leader with a long history of building successful businesses and creating change. It would be great if the state of society allowed us to end the story there. But for all of his many, many accomplishments, Justin's appointment generated attention because of one characteristic that is incredibly rare among CEOs of major companies. He's black. In fact, rare might be an exaggeration. For instance, the Fortune 500 contains four black CEOs. That's down from its all-time high of six. If the leadership of Fortune 500 companies simply reflected American society, there would be 67. It is beyond absurd, beyond outrageous that we even have to say this out loud. Things need to change. And Justin Thomas-Copeland is a change agent. We talk too often about leaders guiding their people through periods of change. But in a business fueled by its capacity to unlock creative thinking and innovation, change is not a temporary state but a permanent one. A company needs to be different tomorrow. It needs to know more and understand better. It has to have a higher tolerance for risk, a greater appetite for exploration and deeper self awareness. And that needs to be true every day. And what makes all that work is showing up as a leader with what Justin describes as the right intent. A set of values and beliefs that withstand the short term set-backs that get in the way, and which overcome the skepticism, the suspicion and the fear that greet most leaders who are trying to lead systemic change. The lack of diversity among the senior leadership of American business is a systemic issue. Changing it will require determination and trust at an unprecedented scale. It will require leaders who have the right intent. What's yours?