Fearless Creative Leadership

Edited highlights of our full conversation. What do you need to know and when do you need to know it? Sir Martin Sorrell first appeared on the show in 2019, and in that conversation, I was struck by his pride in building companies that provide the livelihoods for hundreds of thousands of people. Sir Martin is a polarizing figure. But he is, of course, much more human than his public persona has shown over the years. He is, also, I find, increasingly self-reflective. What do you need to know and when do you need to know it? Those questions sit at the heart of modern leadership. Knowledge is indeed power. Demand too much knowledge too soon, and you can restrict the curiosity and the exploration on which creativity and innovation depend. Ask too few questions and wait too long, and you can expose the business to unsustainable and perhaps even catastrophic risk. The best leaders, I find, have thought through the questions, 'What do I need to know and when do I need to know it?' and they put in place a clear set of expectations and practices that create clarity and consistency for the people around them. Sir Martin, famously, held very tight reins on his companies. Tighter than many liked. And perhaps his companies could have achieved even more if he had held those reins a little more loosely. But he has built companies that are undeniably creative and undeniably successful. Creativity requires room to breathe. But it does not require, nor does it expect, chaos in order to thrive. It needs simply a consistent set of conditions. If you are clear and consistent about how you create those conditions, your ability to unlock the potential of others goes up exponentially.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. What do you need to know and when do you need to know it? Sir Martin Sorrell first appeared on the show in 2019, and in that conversation, I was struck by his pride in building companies that provide the livelihoods for hundreds of thousands of people. Sir Martin is a polarizing figure. But he is, of course, much more human than his public persona has shown over the years. He is, also, I find, increasingly self-reflective. What do you need to know and when do you need to know it? Those questions sit at the heart of modern leadership. Knowledge is indeed power. Demand too much knowledge too soon, and you can restrict the curiosity and the exploration on which creativity and innovation depend. Ask too few questions and wait too long, and you can expose the business to unsustainable and perhaps even catastrophic risk. The best leaders, I find, have thought through the questions, 'What do I need to know and when do I need to know it?' and they put in place a clear set of expectations and practices that create clarity and consistency for the people around them. Sir Martin, famously, held very tight reins on his companies. Tighter than many liked. And perhaps his companies could have achieved even more if he had held those reins a little more loosely. But he has built companies that are undeniably creative and undeniably successful. Creativity requires room to breathe. But it does not require, nor does it expect, chaos in order to thrive. It needs simply a consistent set of conditions. If you are clear and consistent about how you create those conditions, your ability to unlock the potential of others goes up exponentially.

If you died today, what would you regret? Jon Cook is the Global Chief Executive Officer of VML, the world's largest advertising agency. Jon died last October. As you'll hear, the fact he is still here to have this conversation required a set of circumstances so improbable that they would have strained the credibility of your favorite episodic drama. But the fact he is still here, gives him, and those that meet him, a living and breathing teacher of what will really matter to us, when we reach our end. As we age, our priorities and the emphasis of our life changes. We define success in more personal, more human ways. And yet, when we become leaders we are judged - and we judge ourselves - against metrics that have limited shelf lives. That will not change any time soon. If you do not deliver economic performance in a for-profit business, you will not be a leader for long. But, and this is a big but, ask yourself now, what would you would regret if today was your last day on the planet? And then live a life that makes room for the behaviors that would change that answer. Life and leadership are about choices. Don't wait until you're dead to make better ones.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. If you died today, what would you regret? Jon Cook is the Global Chief Executive Officer of VML, the world's largest advertising agency. Jon died last October. As you'll hear, the fact he is still here to have this conversation required a set of circumstances so improbable that they would have strained the credibility of your favorite episodic drama. But the fact he is still here, gives him, and those that meet him, a living and breathing teacher of what will really matter to us, when we reach our end. As we age, our priorities and the emphasis of our life changes. We define success in more personal, more human ways. And yet, when we become leaders we are judged - and we judge ourselves - against metrics that have limited shelf lives. That will not change any time soon. If you do not deliver economic performance in a for-profit business, you will not be a leader for long. But, and this is a big but, ask yourself now, what would you would regret if today was your last day on the planet? And then live a life that makes room for the behaviors that would change that answer. Life and leadership are about choices. Don't wait until you're dead to make better ones.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. If you died today, what would you regret? Jon Cook is the Global Chief Executive Officer of VML, the world's largest advertising agency. Jon died last October. As you'll hear, the fact he is still here to have this conversation required a set of circumstances so improbable that they would have strained the credibility of your favorite episodic drama. But the fact he is still here, gives him, and those that meet him, a living and breathing teacher of what will really matter to us, when we reach our end. As we age, our priorities and the emphasis of our life changes. We define success in more personal, more human ways. And yet, when we become leaders we are judged - and we judge ourselves - against metrics that have limited shelf lives. That will not change any time soon. If you do not deliver economic performance in a for-profit business, you will not be a leader for long. But, and this is a big but, ask yourself now, what would you would regret if today was your last day on the planet? And then live a life that makes room for the behaviors that would change that answer. Life and leadership are about choices. Don't wait until you're dead to make better ones.

How fast are you going? Andréa Mallard is the Chief Marketing & Communications Officer of Pinterest. I interviewed Andréa at Cannes, in the lobby of the Majestic Hotel. Her energy struck me, the moment she arrived. Her perspectives about her life and her leadership have stayed with me, long after we said goodbye. Leadership is a forcing function for the forces of physics. Which direction are you going and how fast are you moving are determined entirely by the leader. Those two factors are affected directly and acutely by the leaders' willingness to challenge the status quo. To take off the handbrake that the unasked question leaves in place. There are some leaders for whom disruption is the fuel that gets them up in the morning. But for many, the fear of confrontation provides a natural suppression of the instinct to ask the difficult questions. That fear helps them ignore the rising temperature of the water that they and their company are sitting in. And when the future suddenly arrives, and stares us in the face, we find that all those unasked questions, all those moments when we avoided the hard conversation, suddenly come with a heavy cost. Or worse. Leadership asks that we overcome our fears in order to help others with theirs. It asks us to be status quo shakers and rule breakers. It asks us to search for the invisible anchors on our businesses and release them so we can meet the future - on our terms. I heard - or perhaps dreamt - a quote the other day. In any case, I can't find it on Google so maybe this is an original thought. Either way, it strikes me as true. You may not be interested in the future. But the future is interested in you. Ask the questions you didn't ask yesterday. Feel the temperature of the water around you. Meet the future on your terms. As fast as you can.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. How fast are you going? Andréa Mallard is the Chief Marketing & Communications Officer of Pinterest. I interviewed Andréa at Cannes, in the lobby of the Majestic Hotel. Her energy struck me, the moment she arrived. Her perspectives about her life and her leadership have stayed with me, long after we said goodbye. Leadership is a forcing function for the forces of physics. Which direction are you going and how fast are you moving are determined entirely by the leader. Those two factors are affected directly and acutely by the leaders' willingness to challenge the status quo. To take off the handbrake that the unasked question leaves in place. There are some leaders for whom disruption is the fuel that gets them up in the morning. But for many, the fear of confrontation provides a natural suppression of the instinct to ask the difficult questions. That fear helps them ignore the rising temperature of the water that they and their company are sitting in. And when the future suddenly arrives, and stares us in the face, we find that all those unasked questions, all those moments when we avoided the hard conversation, suddenly come with a heavy cost. Or worse. Leadership asks that we overcome our fears in order to help others with theirs. It asks us to be status quo shakers and rule breakers. It asks us to search for the invisible anchors on our businesses and release them so we can meet the future - on our terms. I heard - or perhaps dreamt - a quote the other day. In any case, I can't find it on Google so maybe this is an original thought. Either way, it strikes me as true. You may not be interested in the future. But the future is interested in you. Ask the questions you didn't ask yesterday. Feel the temperature of the water around you. Meet the future on your terms. As fast as you can.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. How fast are you going? Andréa Mallard is the Chief Marketing & Communications Officer of Pinterest. I interviewed Andréa at Cannes, in the lobby of the Majestic Hotel. Her energy struck me, the moment she arrived. Her perspectives about her life and her leadership have stayed with me, long after we said goodbye. Leadership is a forcing function for the forces of physics. Which direction are you going and how fast are you moving are determined entirely by the leader. Those two factors are affected directly and acutely by the leaders' willingness to challenge the status quo. To take off the handbrake that the unasked question leaves in place. There are some leaders for whom disruption is the fuel that gets them up in the morning. But for many, the fear of confrontation provides a natural suppression of the instinct to ask the difficult questions. That fear helps them ignore the rising temperature of the water that they and their company are sitting in. And when the future suddenly arrives, and stares us in the face, we find that all those unasked questions, all those moments when we avoided the hard conversation, suddenly come with a heavy cost. Or worse. Leadership asks that we overcome our fears in order to help others with theirs. It asks us to be status quo shakers and rule breakers. It asks us to search for the invisible anchors on our businesses and release them so we can meet the future - on our terms. I heard - or perhaps dreamt - a quote the other day. In any case, I can't find it on Google so maybe this is an original thought. Either way, it strikes me as true. You may not be interested in the future. But the future is interested in you. Ask the questions you didn't ask yesterday. Feel the temperature of the water around you. Meet the future on your terms. As fast as you can.

How do you feel? Tim Mapes is the Chief Marketing and Communications Officer for Delta Airlines. Delta employs over 90,000 people and puts 4,000 flights into the air every day. As Tim points out, a Delta plane is in the air every second. It is a high-pressure, highly visible job. Behind that job, is a person. Early in our conversation, it became obvious that Tim is very willing to look at himself honestly and at his own behavior with self awareness. I asked him where that came from. And he said, simply, counseling. Invariably, in my experience, it ties back to an experience you had as a child that is being triggered by something in adult life, but it's evocative of a feeling that you either liked or didn't like or were scared of as a child. Leaders are human too. It's easy to forget that simple truth in a world in which leadership itself is too often deified. The more impressive the title, the more we imbue that person with mystical powers of knowledge and wisdom. Leaders need to earn the respect of the people that choose to work for them. And re-earn it on a regular basis. The problem is that over time, successful leaders often tend to create a one way mirror that shows them the world they want to see. And the people that work for those leaders quickly learn that challenging that image is a ticket to nowhere. The act of building that mirror is usually not one of arrogance or hubris. More often, much more often, it comes from a need to protect ourselves from a feeling that is too difficult to confront. The willingness to ask ourselves how we really feel, and the courage to explore that question honestly, is the beginning of a journey that replaces the mirror with a window into the lives and feelings of others. And from that beginning, anything is possible.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. How do you feel? Tim Mapes is the Chief Marketing and Communications Officer for Delta Airlines. Delta employs over 90,000 people and puts 4,000 flights into the air every day. As Tim points out, a Delta plane is in the air every second. It is a high-pressure, highly visible job. Behind that job, is a person. Early in our conversation, it became obvious that Tim is very willing to look at himself honestly and at his own behavior with self awareness. I asked him where that came from. And he said, simply, counseling. Invariably, in my experience, it ties back to an experience you had as a child that is being triggered by something in adult life, but it's evocative of a feeling that you either liked or didn't like or were scared of as a child. Leaders are human too. It's easy to forget that simple truth in a world in which leadership itself is too often deified. The more impressive the title, the more we imbue that person with mystical powers of knowledge and wisdom. Leaders need to earn the respect of the people that choose to work for them. And re-earn it on a regular basis. The problem is that over time, successful leaders often tend to create a one way mirror that shows them the world they want to see. And the people that work for those leaders quickly learn that challenging that image is a ticket to nowhere. The act of building that mirror is usually not one of arrogance or hubris. More often, much more often, it comes from a need to protect ourselves from a feeling that is too difficult to confront. The willingness to ask ourselves how we really feel, and the courage to explore that question honestly, is the beginning of a journey that replaces the mirror with a window into the lives and feelings of others. And from that beginning, anything is possible.