The Resilient Recruiter

I am proud and excited to share with you the 100th episode of the Resilient Recruiter Podcast! I would like to thank you for listening and following my show, for all the fantastic reviews which I really appreciate. I am humbled by how much people seem to love this show and I don’t take your support for granted - it motivates me to provide really more meaningful content each week. This podcast has given me a platform to meet truly exceptional people which has been an absolute privilege. For the 100th episode, let me share the seven common habits of million-dollar billers who unselfishly shared their stories of humble beginnings, resilience, and success.  Episode Outline and Highlights [3:08] Three things that are not common factors from million-dollar billers I interviewed. [4:46] Habit #1: Niche market mastery. [6:00] Habit #2: Planning and productivity. [6:36] Habit #3: Metrics. [7:17] Habit #4: Repeat business or recurring revenue. [8:36] Habit #5: High volume and high value. [10:15] Habit #6: Partnership. [12:22] Habit #7: Growth mindset. Three Factors That Are Not in Common From Million-Dollar Billers I Interviewed Before I dive into the seven common habits of million-dollar billers I interviewed, allow me to share the factors that were not common among them. The first one is their market sector. The million-dollar billers who I have interviewed come from very different specializations and industries. The next one is personality: from extremely dynamic and extroverted people to some who are confidently quiet and introverted, and of course everything in between. Lastly, this one surprises me the most, some working like machines working 12-15 hours a day while some work way fewer hours than others.  7 Common Habits of Million-Dollar Billers At least 25 of the 96 people I interviewed in this show are solo million-dollar billers. So if it is not about the market sector, personality, or number of hours they work, what are the common factors? Here then are the seven common habits of million-dollar billers I interviewed: Niche mastery. Planning and productivity. They know their metrics. Repeat business or recurring revenue. High volume and high value. Partnership. Growth mindset. I will not deep dive on each of these habits, but I am looking forward to covering it in my subsequent episodes.  About Our Inner Circle Program Speaking of growth mindset and continuous learning and development, I can give you a proven process to double or triple your billings and to generate a consistent predictable flow of placements. If you’d like to learn more, go ahead and book a free Strategy Session here. Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  People and Resources Mentioned James Caan on LinkedIn Greg Savage on LinkedIn Anne Swain on LinkedIn Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn Rich Rosen on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#13 How to Generate Warm Leads On LinkedIn TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage TRR#90 How to Build a World-Class Talent Development Program, with Ann Swain TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy TRR#67 Think Like a Big Biller: How to Get Repeat Business and Referrals, with Rich Rosen   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you want to accelerate your recruitment agency growth, there are two key challenges you absolutely must solve. First, how to attract and recruit the right people. Secondly, how to develop your people into great billers. Consistently achieving both of these objectives will translate into better talent retention and faster business growth. Of course, that’s easier said than done. How do you actually do it?  In this episode, my special guest, Simon Kouttis, gives a masterclass on how to hire, train and develop recruitment consultants. He reveals how they are able to take trainee recruiters and get them billing £500,000 in six months! Simon is an Executive Director and Partner in SOAP, a London-based executive search firm on a mission to revolutionize the cybersecurity recruitment industry. Simon also is a co-host of his own podcast, called Hunters and Unicorns. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:55] How SOAP is revolutionizing recruitment and what their differentiating factor looks like. [6:45] Allowing strategic conversations to take place with internal talent acquisition teams of your clients. [12:16] Simon talks about the SOAP Sales Playbook. [20:33] How to come up with culture and values that are not just lip service. [30:00] How SOAP empowers their employees: practical approach on rewards and compensation. [34:22] The value of training and development and how it works at SOAP. [38:49] Learn about SOAP’s call-listening activity and how it adds to their culture of learning. [42:17] SOAP’s approach to internal recruitment - hiring based on attributes instead of experience. [47:22] Simon shares about his podcast, Hunters + Unicorns The SOAP Sales Playbook One of the differentiating factors for Simon’s firm is their commitment to continuous learning and development. To help their staff to reach their full potential, they came up with the SOAP Sales Playbook. For Simon, it is one of the most transformational things that they have come up in the recruitment business. “We are seeing recruiters that could barely bill doing five hundred thousand in a half a year.”  Simon shared that there are four playbooks on which the foundation is focused on how to influence the most high performing passive candidates in the market. If this idea appeals to you or if you are in the process of creating a developmental methodology for your organization, you will enjoy Simon’s detailed explanation. Culture and Values - Not Just Lip Service Promoting culture and company values is critical for a growing business. For some recruitment companies, however, it can only be lip service. Culture may only be by default instead of by design. For Simon, from a values perspective, they spend three days when people join their business talking about values. Simon explains, “The reason for that is because everything we do as a business, every decision we ever make, comes from those values. Who we hire, who we fire, what process we are going to build, what strategies we are going to execute, everything comes with reference to those values.”  In line with this, Simon shared how their values affect their internal hiring process.  Investing Heavily in Training and Development As mentioned earlier, SOAP invests heavily in training and development of their employees. This is one of the key topics Simon and I discussed. I clearly remember when I started back in 1997, there was really no structured training plan in place. For successful recruitment business owners that I had the privilege of having as guests in this podcast, a common factor is how they value continuous learning for them and their team. SImon is no exception. This is how he puts it: “Learning and development is not something you do at the beginning. It is something that you do every single day every week.”  You will hear Simon reveal their methodology and approach in development, as well as how it has positively impacted their growth as a company.  What Would You Look for When Hiring Internally? Let’s be honest, as ironic as it may sound,  effective recruiters are not always as effective when hiring internally compared to hiring for their clients. This is indeed a known challenge to those who have been around for a long time in this industry. So I had to ask Simon, when hiring internally, what are they looking for? SOAP does not only bank on recruitment experience when looking for clients. He discussed different methodologies they apply as well as their hiring process. What do they look for potential candidates? Here are the takeaways: The desire to learn  Coachability  Character and Resilience  Experience / tenure and performance based on previous role, not necessarily recruitment Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Simon Kouttis Bio and Contact Info From: https://huntersandunicorns.com/your-host/ Having graduated with a degree in mathematics, Simon’s early career included property development and owning a hospitality business, before entering the world of executive search. With a decade of experience, Simon is now a Founding Executive Partner at SOAP where he leads the sales enablement function. He has developed industry-leading best practices that include the Trinity Search Methodology, the Candidate Spectrum of Motivations and is the author of the SOAP sales playbook built on MEDDIC. Simon straddles the technical and sales recruitment functions, in order to drive engagement on the largest and most complex global recruitment campaigns.  Simon is passionate about recruitment strategy, which has led to a focus on working with talent acquisition in order to identify the bottlenecks that can suffocate the effectiveness of attracting the highest calibre individuals. Simon kindles his creative spark through his love of art and music.  He is a golf addict, although his first love is Liverpool football club. He is a father to boy-girl twins that keep him away from many of his hobbies. Simon on LinkedIn SOAP website link Simon’s podcast, Hunters + Unicorns website link SOAP on YouTube SOAP on Instagram People and Resources Mentioned Leanne Sara Jones Hunt on LinkedIn Traction, by Gino Wickman Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#66 How to Grow Your Recruitment Business by Hiring Top Recruiters, with Leanne Sara Jones Hunt Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

As agency recruiters, we are often required to collaborate with multiple stakeholders including hiring managers, HR and Talent Acquisition. This can be incredibly challenging and frustrating - especially when there’s a lack of cooperation or a breakdown in communication. To facilitate an efficient and successful recruitment process, we must find a way to engage all the stakeholders. So how could you collaborate effectively with your client’s HR, Talent Acquisition and hiring managers? My special guest, Katrina Collier, will answer this question. Katrina Collier is on a mission to end the collaboration chaos existing between HR, recruiters & hiring managers, to better recruitment and the candidate experience. She is the author of The Robot-Proof Recruiter, a global keynote speaker, and host of The Hiring Partner Perspective (Unedited) podcast.   Episode Outline and Highlights [1:40] Quick snapshot of Katrina’s background. [5:20] Underlying challenges contributing to lack of collaboration between HR, Talent Acquisition & agency recruiters. [9:36] MIndset shift - how to get recruiters to think of themselves as Partners instead of just being ‘servants’.  [13:40] What to expect when establishing partnership with hiring managers. [17:20] The human factor in building trust and attracting talents. [21:00] How to be more empathetic. [27:10] Getting people to respond and improving your response rate.  [42:16] “Get off LinkedIn!” - other channels to utilize when looking for candidates. [49:30] What should be the structure of a good recruiting email? [53:44] Re-engineering your business plans because of the pandemic? Katrina shares her experience. [56:39] Hope for Justice - hear about Katrina’s advocacy in supporting this charity. Challenges When Collaborating for Recruiters and Hiring Managers From Katrina’s point of view, what are the underlying challenges that can affect collaboration among these stakeholders? Two points were shared: Recruiters need a mindset shift in terms of partnership. HR tends to be in competition with Talent Acquisition. How can the above challenges be neutralized? Hear Katrina’s pragmatic advice. Mindset Shift to Partnership and Collaboration Equal and mutually respectful collaboration is the ideal scenario for recruiters and hiring managers. Recruiters need to think of themselves as equal partners in the recruitment process, instead of just focusing on a “customer service” type of mindset. Here is what Katrina said, “Get out of your head and into your heart.” It always goes back to the human factor - we are dealing with humans. Human skills are now more relevant than ever! In this episode, you will hear why. Building and Gaining Trust From Candidates As we are dealing with human beings, we need human skills to connect with candidates. So what’s the best way to build and gain trust as recruiters? Katrina mentioned important factors such as: Empathy and compassion Being fearless  Providing certainty and clarity Patience Improving Your Response Rate When Contacting Candidates  In line with the above, patience is indeed needed when we seem to be getting minimal response from potential clients and candidates. How do we get people to respond? Katrina emphasized the importance of considering your own profile and brand. Do you look like someone who is worth connecting with and speaking to, someone who could add value and provide expert insight? She also mentioned that although LinkedIn is the mainstream platform when searching for candidates, you should leave LinkedIn. I am sure it was an overemphasis, but to Katrina’s point, there are other platforms we can consider when engaging with talents. On top of that, she also gave pointers on how to rethink your approach in engaging your candidates. Hope for Justice Katrina also shared a charity organization that she fully supports, Hope for Justice. She shared how this non-profit organization impacted her life and how it impacts others. If you wish to know more about Hope for Justice, please visit their website in the links below. Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Katrina Collier Bio and Contact Info Katrina Collier is the owner of Katrina Collier Limited . She is the author of The Robot-Proof Recruiter, a well-loved global keynote speaker, and host of The Hiring Partner Perspective (Unedited) podcast.  Enticed by a newspaper advert in 2003, she started her career in recruitment. She spent 5.5 years in an agency and then 18 months in-house. She started teaching social recruiting and sourcing. Tweeting, blogging and, later, The #SocialRecruiting Show led to unexpected notoriety. This opened up opportunities to work with companies and recruiters all around the world, and even to deliver talks on 5 continents.  She is also an Ambassador for Hope for Justice charity, and you’ll find her on LinkedIn and on Instagram & Twitter @KatrinaMCollier. Katrina Collier Limited website link Katrina on LinkedIn Katrina on Instagram Katrina on Twitter @KatrinaMCollier  People and Resources Mentioned Hope for Justice website link Playing Big by Tara Mohr Wayne Daley on LinkedIn Mark Lundgren on LinkedIn How to Get a Meeting with Anyone by Stu Heinecke Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Imagine if instead of placing one person at a time, you were able to recruit a whole team and enjoy correspondingly bigger deal values. I always thought team moves were rare opportunities that you might come across once in a blue moon - if you’re lucky. That was until I met my special guest Harlan Friedman.  Harlan has developed a process for “lift outs” and has moved teams multiple times in his career.  Through experience, he understands the nuances of how to put these complex deals together.  Sometimes instead of recruiting an intact team, Harlan creates a “dream team” and places them together at a client company.  In this episode, you’ll hear Harlans’ tips and advice on how to strategically move teams. Plus, be inspired when you hear Harlan’s remarkable story of how he joined the search industry at age 55 with $300,000 in debt. Listen to how he turned his finances around within 18 months by becoming a consistent top producer before eventually building his own search firm.    Episode Outline and Highlights [1:40] It is never too late! Hear Harlan’s remarkable story and how he joined the recruitment industry at age 55. [8:39] Differentiating factor and secret to Harlan’s success. [11:10] Best practices: reaching hard to reach clients using targeted emails and opportunistic hiring. [19:07] The effectiveness of addressing your candidate or client’s biggest concerns. [23:50] The key to being a good recruiter: don’t try to sell anybody anything. [27:40] How Harlan works in a very disciplined way. [32:19] Why take calls from individuals that you may not be able to place? [35:00] Team moves versus individual hires - how to recruit teams or even create them. [46:56] Harlan’s proudest accomplishment in the last 10 years. Fascinating Story of How Harlan Started His Recruitment Career One fascinating story about Harlan is he actually started in the search business in 2011, he was in debt and 55 years old. Harlan had enjoyed a very successful career as a public finance banker.  However, when the real-estate market crashed, his high six-figure income turned zero overnight. Unfortunately, his wife lost her job around the same time and as the months went by with no job offers, they ended up $300,000 in debt.  Harlan’s fortunes changed when he responded to an ad in Craig’s list and persuaded the owner of a small search firm to give him a chance.  With no background in recruiting, Harlan became rookie of the year and the top biller in an office of about 8-10 full time recruiters, enabling him to pay off his debts in 18 months. The Key Success Factor How did Harlan do it? What made him very successful in the recruitment business even if he has no prior experience? This is how he puts it, “I think the number one answer is I am very coachable.” He shared the story of how he was inspired by a shoe salesman becoming a top salesperson of the company (you need to hear this one from Harlan). He also mentioned how discipline plays a key role in his daily routine. Selling by Not Selling - “Don’t Sell Anybody Anything” Another remarkable takeaway from our conversation is Harlan’s perspective on reaching out to clients. He focuses on what their concerns are -- not on how he will get the deal. “I don’t try to sell anybody anything. That’s the key to being a good recruiter, don’t sell. Because if they think you are selling, you have nothing.”  Harlan revealed how he came up with his own system as he adapted to the industry. Below are some key pointers: Not presenting the offer unless you know it’s going to be accepted. Being extremely disciplined everyday when he steps into his office. Write a blog once a week - he creates a blog which is like a journal of what he learned the previous week and sends it to everyone in his database. Successful Team Moves As a recruiter or a business owner, how often have you successfully completed a project on which you moved a whole team instead of just one candidate? This is not something we encounter very often, and when it does happen, it tends to be opportunistic rather than strategic. In Harlan’s case, he’s developed a repeatable process for “lift outs” and he actively looks for these types of situations.  According to Harlan, “The key to working with teams is a hundred percent mindset.”  Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Harlan Friedman Bio and Contact Info Harlan is the Founder & Principal of H. Friedman Search - responsible for all recruiting of Municipal Finance Bankers, Advisors & Bond Counsel.  Harlan’s recruiting efforts result in sole sourcing of both candidates and companies within the area of banking, finance & law.  He oversees all recruiting nationwide representing both Regional and Super Regional Investment Banking firms and  Regional and National Law Firms. He is tasked with the responsibility for overseeing and managing all aspects of client and candidate relationships from initial interview to transition.   He has been instrumental in sourcing, presenting, negotiating and closing candidates.   Harlan earned Rookie of the Year, his first complete year in the business as well as becoming a 2012 - 2018 President's Club member.  Over his tenure at both Armstrong Financial Group & Novum Group  which is eight  years in the industry he has recruited over 85 individuals and teams throughout the United States.  In 2018, Harlan was admitted into the Pinnacle Society, an elite organization for Top Recruiters in North America. He credits his in-depth knowledge of Public Finance and the Legal arena for his success.  As he is fond of saying, when you know the industry inside and out, senior people welcome the opportunity to have high-level conversations with you. Harlan on LinkedIn Harlan on Facebook H. Friedman Search website link People and Resources Mentioned John Schlegel on LinkedIn  Paul Taaffe on LinkedIn Michelle Parchman on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#65 Recruiting Success: How to Bill $700k+ While Achieving Work-Life Balance, With John Schlegel TRR#21 The Former CFO Turned Finance Recruiter Who Billed €4M Last Year, with Paul Taaffe How to Bill Half a Million and Work Less Than 15 Hours a Week, with Michelle Parchman   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Exploring new markets can be really exciting especially if you’re considering international expansion. But as much as opening offices in a new territory can present big potential for growth, it can also present an enormous amount of challenges. That is what my special guest, Rob Green, will be sharing in this episode. Rob has built recruitment teams across Europe, Asia, North America, Australia, and Africa.  Despite some significant successes, it was never a walk in the park. In this interview, Rob shared both the  mistakes and learnings he gained. Rob has almost two decades of experience in the recruitment industry, recruiting lawyers in 40 countries. He launched his career in London with Badenoch & Clark. Since then he has worked and lived in various locations around the globe. In 2014, he took over the Hong Kong branch of his company, rebranded it as GRM Search and won 15 industry awards over 8 years working with the most coveted legal firms, multinational companies and financial institutions in the world. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:49] How Rob and I were first introduced to each other. [4:29] Rob’s colorful recruiting journey in 18 years. [20:30] Challenges and resilience in recruitment during a recession. [27:11] Ego is the Enemy - what ego cost Rob and the valuable learning he had. [29:00] Rob reveals the story behind his biggest challenge by far. [35:49] In hindsight, what would Rob have done differently? [38:07] When growing your business, how fast is ‘too fast’?  [46:53] The value of getting help. [50:00] Rob’s venture in South Africa - achievements and main learnings. Overcoming His Biggest Challenge Rob humbly shared his biggest challenge which took place in 2016 when he started in Hong Kong. Growing to 25 people with expensive offices, high salaries, and high commissions, the business was not sustainable. When local market conditions worsened, he had to scale down the business or go bust.  Within six painful weeks, he had drastically cut his overheads which sent a shock through the HK legal recruitment market. Behind the scenes, he was going through a very tough time because of personal problems which magnified the issues he was having with his business. Rob recalled, “I had grown the business too fast. We had a number of offices that just weren’t profitable. I was trying in many cases to buy my way out of trouble by starting new desks, starting new offices… We just grew too rapidly with the wrong people and the wrong structure.” I certainly admire Rob’s unselfishness in sharing his story. In our conversation, you will hear what steps he took to stabilize his operation in HK while expanding successfully to South Africa. Key Learnings From Mistakes This podcast is called The Resilient Recruiter for a reason, and indeed Rob personifies that quality. He has built teams and offices in Cayman, Hong Kong, Melbourne, Johannesburg and Cape Town, which were all successes. He also expanded to Brisbane, Singapore and Tokyo which he considers as “massive failures''. Rob is happy to talk about the things that he did right as well as sharing the mistakes he made. Here are the takeaways of what he shared: Having the right people  Having the right compensation plan Having a sound structure Understanding the culture of your market, building the market and creating the demand Try to put aside your ego The Value of Getting Help One of Rob’s key success factors is getting guidance from others. This is how he put it,  “This is for all business owners for recruitment - get help!” Rob believes that you can learn a lot from fellow business owners as well as professional coaches. The key is to have a growth mindset, be receptive to feedback, open to new ideas and focused on constant improvement. As the expression goes, “you don’t know what you don’t know.” Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Rob Green Bio and Contact Info With almost two decades’ experience in the recruitment industry, Rob has recruited lawyers in 40 countries, working with firms and companies from the biggest in DLA Piper, Bank of America, Facebook, Alibaba, and such like, to small one-person law firms, looking to double in size. Rob launched his career with leading financial services agency, Badenoch & Clark, in London. Following his relocation to the Cayman Islands in 2005, he joined one of the Caribbean's top recruitment companies, CML, to establish the region’s leading legal recruitment provider. In 2009, Rob became a partner in the business and moved to Hong Kong to grow the business and become one of the top consultancies in Asia. He took full ownership of the Hong Kong branch and rebranded as GRM Search in 2013, winning 15 industry awards in 8 years and working with some of the most coveted legal firms, MNCs, and financial institutions in the world. Enticed by the link between Africa and Asia, Rob opened GRM Search’s first office in South Africa in Johannesburg during 2014. He moved with his family to settle in Cape Town and spearhead the growth of the business into the African continent in 2017. GRM has had notable successes in Asia, Africa and Australia, with some failures along the way to keep him humble. Rob regularly shares his views on the legal job market with industry publications, business radio shows, HR seminars, and law graduates at HKU, Stellenbosch University, and UWC. He is renowned for his global outlook, experience, legal market knowledge, and down-to-earth approach. In his spare time, Rob is the proud founder and chairman of South Africa’s first soccer programme for special needs children (GPS Vikings FC) and a part time boxing ring announcer as well as a doting father and husband. Rob on LinkedIn Rob on Instagram GRM Search website link  GRM Intelligence website link GRM Group on YouTube People and Resources Mentioned Rob’s podcast - Welcome to My House Joel Slenning on LinkedIn Greg Savage on LinkedIn James Caan on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs TRR#64The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage    Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

For a lot of recruitment business owners, going to the next level and scaling their business can present unexpected challenges. But no matter how difficult you’re finding it to grow your recruitment business, I hope today’s episode will inspire you to never give up! My special guest, Edward Chamberlain, shared that by far his biggest challenge was scaling the business. In this episode, he shared how he was able to overcome a lot of obstacles you may also be facing now and build a really successful recruitment business from scratch, with no external investment. Ed is a serial entrepreneur and founder of Altus Partners, a market leader in Private Equity search with a team of 30 people. Ed also co-founded C&C search with his sister Lucy, an HR and business support recruiting firm. Both of these firms generate multi-million pounds in revenue. Previously, Ed was a founding member of Investigo (a Virgin fast-track business), which grew from a team of 4 to over 250 people, before its sale. He recently launched Stryve, an ATS that can help SMEs grow their businesses faster. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:52] A serial entrepreneur: Ed reveals how he started Altus Partners. [3:41] What is the ‘hybrid search’ model? [7:57] What is the map and track approach? [10:08] Enhancing your selection process with the Hogan Psychometric Evaluation. [12:16] Ed’s biggest challenge and lessons learned.  [22:28] What a robust People Plan looks like. [24:28] Two keys to replicating your effectiveness as a recruiter to your whole team. [27:51] Why Ed believes that retained recruiting is the best approach in favor of the client. [33:17] Good business books recommended by Ed. [37:10] Ed’s advice to recruitment business owners who want to scale their business. [45:47] Recruiting and building a community of like-minded people . [51:49] Training as a key pillar of the business during the pandemic. [56:54] What motivated Ed to create their own ATS (Applicant Tracking System). Innovative Tools to Add Rigor to the Process As we talked about best practices, one thing I noticed is how Ed is constantly innovating and striving to add rigor to the recruiting process on behalf of the client. Ed breaks down his unique search methodology and highlights a few of the key elements:  The Hybrid Search model The Map and Track approach Creating an Applicant Tracking System (ATS) The Hogan Psychometric evaluation tool You will definitely enjoy learning about how Edward’s focus on constant improvement has helped with client acquisition and scaling his businesses. The Challenge of Scaling A Business Ed is definitely a serial entrepreneur, but you might be surprised that one of the biggest challenges he had to overcome was scaling his business. He was very open about sharing his failures and learnings. You may be able to relate to some of these challenges. You will hear Ed’s advice on how to create a robust People Plan, replicating your effectiveness as a recruiter to your team, and why the retained approach works best for you and the client. Ed’s Advice If You Want to Scale So if there was one key piece of advice he would give to a business owner who wants to scale, what would that be? Ed said, “If you are going to start a recruitment firm, generally speaking you are going to be a salesperson or recruiter before that. Inherently what goes hand in hand in that is individuals that don’t like planning and often don’t like the administration piece. The bit of advice I would give to anyone is to make sure to go back and do that. Put it together, put your finances together, put a really good business plan.”  Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Edward Chamberlain Bio and Contact Info Ed is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of Altus Partners and has built an enviable track-record, over many years within Private Equity search. He has placed from Partner to Analyst level with a range of high-profile funds to emerging managers. His guiding principles of honesty and integrity have enabled him to build long-standing, trusted relationships with key figures in the Private Equity industry. Ed graduated with a BA Hons in Architecture before starting his career in Search in 2002. He was a founding member of Investigo (a Virgin fast-track business), which grew from a team of 4 to over 250 people, before its sale. He helped establish another search firm in 2006 (rather this name isn't mentioned ;) One Search) – before identifying a gap in the market and setting up Altus Partners in 2009.  Altus Partners has become a market leader in Private Equity Search and continues to thrive today, placing c-suite professionals into Private Equity Backed Companies and also Investment Professionals into the funds themselves. Further to this he co-founded C&C Search with his sister in 2014, which places HR and Support Staff Professionals and has a training academy (launched to counter the pandemic), which has seen over 5,000 people enroll in their courses and has won corporate training contracts with the likes of Sony, Warner Brothers, Amazon and Campbell Soup.  More latterly, and out of a desire to see small and growing companies recruit better, he launched an ATS - Stryve. He raised seed funding of £500k in March 2021 and launches the Beta product this month! Ed on LinkedIn Altus Partners website link  Altus Partners on Twitter @Altus_Partners Stryve website link  People and Resources Mentioned Joel Slenning on LinkedIn The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencion Work Rules! by Laszlo Bock The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey The Personal MBA by Josh Kaufman Key Person of Influence by Daniel Priestley Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you want your clients to work with you on a retained basis, you need a strong value proposition and an effective sales process.   In this episode, my special guest, Chris Schoettelkotte, gives a masterclass on selling retained search, including how he developed his unique value proposition.  He shares how he transitioned his firm from contingent search to a retained business model. Chris and I discussed in detail why retained search is usually a better solution for the client and how to explain the benefits.  You’ll even hear us deliver an impromptu training session on how to pitch exclusivity. Chris is the President and Founder of Manhattan Resources, an executive search firm based in Houston. Chris has been incredibly successful in the search business and he’s consistently one of the top recruiters in the United States. In his best year, Chris collected $2.3M dollars in placement fees -- that’s personal production not including his team’s billings. In this interview, you’ll discover what it takes to perform at the highest level in our industry. Episode Outline and Highlights [2:40] From a career as a corporate executive to starting an executive search firm -- how and why Chris got into the business. [7:39] Developing a powerful Value Proposition -- how Manhattan Resources differentiates their service from other search firms. [13:30] The secret to converting 95% of Manhattan Resources’ clients into repeat customers.  [23:25] Why Chris isn’t concerned about the risk of flying to meet a potential client and then not getting the business. [26:10] Transitioning contingent clients to retained search, how did Chris do it? [31:41] Why the contingent model can actually work against the client due to compromised quality. [39:26] Best practices for pre-qualifying a client. [45:31] Chris’s recent example of dealing with a challenging client and why he had to be really transparent in giving feedback. [51:23] Two things that all recruiters need to understand. [55:06] What does it take to be truly excellent in the recruitment business? [1:00:41] At this stage in Chris’ career, what motivates him to keep doing what he does? How Manhattan Partners Convert 95% of Their Clients Into Repeat Customers On top of being ranked as one of Houston’s top search firms for 18 straight years, another outstanding feat of Manhattan Resources is having a minimum 95% of clients becoming repeat customers. What is their secret? Chris shared, “It is all about investing in long term relationships.”  For Chris, this means having the proper value proposition for your clients and candidates as well as going above and beyond what is expected. He shared how his approach works for most of his clients - jumping on a flight and visiting every potential client to get to know them. “There is not a time where the client said, ‘Hey you’re in Houston, I’m in New Jersey, and we want to hire you, you don’t need to come.’ Yes we do. So we are going to get on a plane, we are going to fly to New Jersey, we are going to get a hotel, we are going to spend a couple of days in your office, I want to interview all the stakeholders involved in this position… At the end of this before I get back on a plane I am going to go to whoever the primary stakeholder is… I’m going to say, this is what I know...” Isn’t it risky to invest time and money up front? What if the deal doesn’t materialize?  Chris admitted this can sometimes happen, and shared a couple of actual experiences.  But this is immaterial compared to the relationship built and the long term benefits produced. How to Sell Exclusivity Manhattan Resources started out as a contingent search firm because, in Chris’s words, he simply didn’t know any better at the time.  However, they quickly evolved into a retained executive search business.  Chris explains how and why they switched to the retained model not just because it’s more profitable, but also because it benefits the client as well. In this part of our conversation, you will hear verbiage that you can use to sell the true benefit of retained search. Chris indeed shared how he was able to convert his contingent clients into embracing the retained approach.  The Two Things All Recruiters Must Understand Another golden nugget of wisdom shared is the two things all recruiters must understand: Everytime you place somebody, that’s a relationship that you should never, ever let go. When you complete a search, all those people you didn’t place, you should follow up with them, thank them, and continue to build a relationship with them. Chris further elaborated on the second point, which is actually a brilliant approach in establishing a potential business relationship in the future. What Does it Take to be Successful in Recruitment? Chris’ longevity and accomplishments in the recruitment industry gives him credibility to give advice on what it takes to be successful in this business. He mentioned insightful advice and here are some takeaways: Mental agility Approaching recruitment as a profession Building your brand of excellence Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Chris Schoettelkotte Bio and Contact Info Chris Schoettelkotte founded Manhattan Resources in 1999 after serving in various leadership positions with Union Pacific, Olsten Corporation and Corporate Express.  His background in business strategy, integration, high performance team development and business turnarounds in both corporate and private equity environments uniquely prepared Chris to look at Executive Search differently.  Chris determined from the beginning that the value proposition in the search industry wasn’t strong enough or aligned properly with the needs of the client.  Building and refining a robust and transparent search process that enables our client’s to make strategic hiring decisions confidently has always been his primary focus.   Chris believes that helping our clients build high performance teams is our mission.  We do this by working with our clients to understand our client’s business and the specific needs of the team.  We work with our clients to fill the intellectual capital needs of the team while carefully keeping in mind the individual cultures of our client companies.  Chris has his B.A. in Business from Western Illinois University and his MBA in International Business from the University of Houston Bauer College of Business.  Chris enjoys coaching Boys Varsity Basketball in Houston, Texas where he resides with his wife Anna and their four children. Chris on LinkedIn Manhattan Resources website link Manhattan Resources on Facebook Manhattan Resources on Instagram Manhattan Resources on Twitter @MR_ExecSearch People and Resources Mentioned Jordan Rayboy on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#46 How to Run a Million Dollar Recruiting Firm From Your RV, with Jordan Rayboy Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

If you enjoy listening to the Resilient Recruiter podcast, I have a special treat for you. In this episode, I am collaborating with fellow podcaster, Hishem Azzouz, host of the Recruitment Mentors podcast. Between us, Hishem and I have interviewed hundreds of recruitment business owners. We decided to compare notes and discuss the key factors that the most successful recruitment companies share in common. We both came up with five things, so you are about to hear the top ten success factors for growing your business.  Episode Outline and Highlights [4:06]  Willingness to seek help. [6:56] Niche market specialization. [12:33] Don’t romanticize what worked in the past. [18:33] The ability to attract and retain top recruiters. [22:35] Investing just as much into keeping people as hiring people. [26:22] Serious commitment to talent development and career progression within your organization. [30:17] Having a compelling vision for your company. [34:20] Developing your culture. [39:43] Humility. [43:18] Investing in marketing. The Top Ten Success Factors for Growing Your Recruitment Business Willingness to seek help. Hishem stated, “A common hindsight learning that I hear sometimes from recruitment business leaders that have gone on to do really well, when I ask them things like ‘What would you do differently’ or ‘If you could speak to your younger self, what would you say?’, a real common answer is they would have asked for help more quickly.”   Niche market specialization.  The vast majority of the firm owners I’ve interviewed or worked with who have been the most successful are specialists in a particular field. Hear the reasons why focusing on a particular niche is building your marketplace rather than limiting it. Don’t romanticize what worked in the past.  Being open-minded to trying new things, learning, and getting out of your comfort zone are qualities that make a successful recruitment leader. Successful leaders do not romanticize what worked for them 10 or 15 years ago. They are always thinking, learning, and trying to understand what more they could be doing. The ability to attract and retain top recruiters.  Internal recruitment strategy is critical. The companies that scale are really good at recruiting recruiters. In contrast, the companies that  remain small may not be able to figure that important piece out.  Investing just as much into keeping people as hiring people.  Investing heavily in talent development is an important key to scaling your business. Having a mindset of nurturing current employees is a successful recruiter leader’s way of thinking. Serious commitment to talent development and career progression within your organization.  Complementary with the above previous points mentioned, having a serious commitment to establishing a career ladder within your organization is key to growing your business. Hishem added, “I’ve been interviewing people in their first year in recruitment, second year in recruitment, and they are all people who have graduated in the last two years. I just ask them a direct question like, ‘what type of company are you excited to work for?’ The number one thing is progression. Having a compelling vision for the company.   Genuinely, most scaling recruitment agencies that you may know in the market are guaranteed to have clarity on what they want and where they are going. This inspires confidence in your existing team members and attracts great people to join your company. Developing your culture.  The question is have you designed your culture? Or do you just have a culture by default? The most important defining feature of the culture comes down to the values. Humility.  “For me personally in my own experience, most recruitment business leaders I speak to have humility in abundance,” explained Hishem. This enables leaders to have an open mind to learn and grow.  Investing in marketing.  Recruiting is a sales business, and like my friend Greg Savage says, your sixth, or seventh hire should be a full-time marketing person. Visibility as a thought leader and someone who adds value to your industry is ultimately good for business. Investing in marketing is significant to achieve this goal. Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Hishem Azzouz Bio and Contact Info An underperforming recruiter that turned his fortunes 180 degrees in six months using the power of personal branding and the launch of the Recruitment Mentors podcast. Over 100 episodes, and 20,000 monthly listeners later he founded Azzouz Branding to help recruiters leverage personal branding & social selling. He helped 200+ agencies and consultants build their brands. Recruitment Mentors is the brainchild of Hishem Azzouz. Hishem on LinkedIn Recruitment Mentors podcast link Recruitment Mentors website link People and Resources Mentioned Michael Young on LinkedIn James Caan on LinkedIn James Fernandes on LinkedIn Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday Greg Savage on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter  

When you started in your recruitment career, how long did you visualize yourself doing this for? Many recruiters get into this profession because of the earning potential but don’t necessarily see recruiting as a long-term career.  There’s no question that recruitment is challenging. The failure rate among rookie recruiters is high and many experienced recruiters suffer from burnout. Is it possible to make recruitment a rewarding career for the long term? My special guest, Michael Goldman, is an example of someone who has enjoyed longevity and sustained success in recruitment.  Michael started his recruitment career in 1980 and founded his own firm, Strategic Associates, in 1988. Michael has built an excellent reputation as an executive recruiter in manufacturing and supply chain nationwide, in both contingency and retained basis. He is a Founding Member and former President of the Pinnacle Society. Having run a successful desk for over 40 years, and being consistently a top producer, he also speaks on, and enjoys teaching, recruiting tactics and strategies to recruiters globally. In this episode, Michael shares his passion, learning, and what makes his recruitment career a fulfilling and rewarding path. Episode Outline and Highlights [4:22] Michael’s story on how he got into recruiting in the 80’s. [7:54] The 3 keys to long term success and fulfilment as a recruiter [10:42] Understanding the value you bring to clients and candidates.  [17:48] How to become a "career conciliere" rather than just a "resume traffic cop" [26:22] The power question to ask your client to engage them. [29:01] Trying to convert a contingent client to a retainer: what are the best selling points? [40:00] In his 40 years in the industry, what is the biggest challenge that Michael has faced? [44:28] Michael reveals a quote he cut out of a newspaper years ago that drives him to this day. [48:13] Michael's recruitment solo practice. The 3 Keys to Long Term Success and Fulfilment as a Recruiter Successfully running his desk as a consistent top biller for 40 years, I wanted to ask Michael on what can young recruiters learn from a seasoned veteran like him. He responded, “understand what it means to bring value.” MIchael is passionate about helping recruiters develop themselves as "counseling" rather than "transactional" recruiters. He has helped a lot of recruiters, candidates, and clients as well as changed people’s lives with this clear mission of bringing value. He further expanded on what this means and outlined three keys: Understanding the purpose of your business Understanding what value you could bring  Understanding how to influence people rather than “sell, sell, sell.” What It Means to Add Value What does it mean to add value as a recruiter? Michael explained, “Providing expertise, a counsel to help guide people not just on where they want to get to from point A to point Z. But how to put tools and tactics and strategies together to get to that point. We are not about just transactionally being traffic cops and sending out resumes and setting up interviews. The better among us, the most self-fulfilled among us are ones that can tap into what will help motivate people for success. It is not just on the candidate’s side it is on the client’s side too.” I absolutely agree with this mindset. Recruiting is indeed not about being too transactional as engaging with your stakeholders and motivating them. I believe this approach is the secret to Michael’s longevity in this industry. Why Michael Does Things that Scare Him Michael shared a fantastic quote from the Founder of Southwest Airlines: “I love to do things that scare me because without fear there is no courage.”  He cut this quote out of a newspaper years ago and it’s wisdom drives him to this day. This philosophy has helped Michael face challenges, adapt to changes and always stay out of his comfort zone. Do you have a favourite motivational quote you can share? Let me know in the comments below! Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Michael Goldman Bio and Contact Info Since 1980, both in his native New York and Austin, Texas, Michael Goldman has cultivated a respected reputation for achievement in nationwide manufacturing/supply chain executive recruitment on both a contingency and retained basis. In 1988, he founded Strategic Associates with the purpose of creating a highly specialized firm encompassing talent in the areas of supply chain, procurement, quality/regulatory affairs and operations (plant and corporate).  Clients span industries from medical devices to consumer packaged goods to industrial to high technology products–from perishable goods to durable–from food products to computers and personal communication devices to biomedical technology to capital equipment. They are from Fortune 500 and 50 to mid-sized privately-held firms.    Michael is an original Founding Member of the Pinnacle Society and, from 1991 to 1995, served two consecutive terms as its second president.  He was awarded the Honorary Lifetime Membership in recognition of both his accomplishments in recruiting and service to Pinnacle.  In addition, he has earned his CPC through the National Association of Personnel Services.    Along with continuously maintaining his consistent success as a “desk-running” recruiter for over 40 years (and currently), Michael also speaks on and teaches domestically and internationally advanced and basic recruiting tactics and strategies. He has been requested to provide grass-roots recruitment seminars and speaking engagements to American state and national organizations as well as international audiences. To date he has personally educated recruitment professionals in the US, Ireland, England and South Africa.  In addition, he has conducted webinars for state recruiting organizations and Pinnacle Society meetings and Pinnacle Panel events. Michael on LinkedIn Michael’s website link People and Resources Mentioned John Schlegel on LinkedIn James Caan on LinkedIn Jeff Herzog on LinkedIn Danny Cahill on LinkedIn Paul Hickey on LinkedIn The E-Myth by Michael Gerber Joel Slenning on LinkedIn Pinnacle Society website link Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#65 Recruiting Success: How to Bill $700k+ While Achieving Work-Life Balance, With John Schlegel TRR#53 How to Scale Your Staffing & Recruiting Firm to $16,000,000, With Joel Slenning TRR#71 How to Build a Successful Executive Search Business While Running Your Own Desk, with Jeff Herzog TRR#81 James Caan on the 10 Characteristics of Highly Successful Recruitment Entrepreneurs   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Starting a recruitment business isn’t easy. Scaling a recruitment business is even harder, as evidenced by the fact that 73% of recruitment companies never grow beyond 10 employees.  Selling a recruitment business is rare indeed -- according to BDO there are only 20-40 M&A deals done per year in the UK recruitment sector.   Accomplishing all of this in 7 years while still in your 30’s is practically unheard of.  Yet that’s exactly what my special guest, Karla Reffold, has achieved. I had so much fun interviewing Karla about her entrepreneurial journey as a young, female founder.  She shared the challenges she faced and the crazy ups and downs she experienced.  You’ll hear what she learned from having founded, scaled and sold her recruitment business in the tech space -- traditionally a male-dominated sector. Karla founded the international recruitment business, BeecherMadden in 2010 before overseeing the acquisition by Nicoll Curtin. In 2020 she joined Orpheus Cyber as COO. Karla is also an experienced speaker on cyber security and was included in SC Magazine’s Top 50 Women in Security in 2019. Episode Outline and Highlights [1:57] Karla talks about how she launched, scaled, and sold her recruitment business at a young age. [6:01] When should you expand? Karla’s trigger for making your next hire. [11:10] How Karla established a foundation for growth during the first 12 months. [15:40] Hear how the “Green Flag System” helped Karla’s business to consistently grow. [19:00] Best practices to be successful in winning business. [26:08] Hiring based on values, developing your company values and assessing talent against them. [28:00] Resilience when things don’t go your way - Karla shared the key challenges she encountered while growing her startup recruitment business.  [32:40] Karla reveals why she decided to expand to the US and what she learned from opening an office in New York. [46:30] When is the right time to exit and sell your business? [54:22] Challenges of being a young female founder in the tech space. Increase Your Success in Winning Businesses A critical part of Karla’s success as a founder is how she consistently wins businesses which immensely contributed to her company’s growth. What are the keys to increasing your success in winning clients? Karla shared at least three. Invest in marketing and branding. BeecherMadden created a salary survey which they leveraged to get publicity and appointments with key prospects. She also set up internship programs to create a strong social media presence, which in turn launched marketing careers for her interns.  Speaking engagements. Karla would speak at every industry event she could, persuading event organizers to give her an opportunity. Her expertise in tech enabled her to share meaningful insights and these speaking engagements helped to make the BeecherMadden brand dominant in the cyber security market.  People. As a team, they really focused on business development and Karla gives credit to the hard work her team put in. Confidence. Something that really stood out to me was Karla’s confidence, which she explained is something she’s always had. Her upbringing played an important part in her envisioning success and knowing that she can do anything she puts her mind into. What if Things Don’t Go Your Way? As a young founder, things wobbled a bit when she was expanding quickly. In fact, she believed that one of her learnings as a business owner is that growing too quickly can create a lot of problems. Another huge challenge is stepping back from the day to day management, which she attempted to do after her second child was born. Karla told me the story of hiring a Managing Director to run the business while she was on maternity leave, which turned out to be a disaster.  Listen to how she was able to get things back on track after this major setback. Hear her other stories as well as her key learnings on never underestimating her value. If you are a business owner or someone who is just starting, you may find this one truly relevant. Careers Beyond Recruitment - Becoming a Senior Executive in the Tech Space Karla is now a COO at Orpheus, a leading cyber threat intelligence and cyber risk rating company and is respected in her industry. Unfortunately, that respect wasn’t always there. What were the challenges she faced as a young woman in tech? Karla recalled, “I was in my 20’s when I started... I remember people would literally say things like, “you’re very young aren’t you?” Fortunately, Karla believes the industry has changed for the better and the tech space is gradually becoming more diverse.  In 2020, Karla transitioned from the recruitment industry to cyber security, which brings a new set of challenges. One question she now gets asked is “Wow, how does a recruiter become a COO?” Her response: “I founded a 7-figure business and sold it for a really decent multiple - that’s how.”  Our Sponsors This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro®.  i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Our technology and methodology allows recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees and increase their billings. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter for a 25% discount. Book your free, no obligation consultation here: www.recruitmentcoach.com/retained  Karla Reffold Bio and Contact Info An experienced business owner and leader, Karla is passionate about values-led leadership and people development. Karla founded the international recruitment business, BeecherMadden in 2010 before overseeing the acquisition by Nicoll Curtin. In 2020 she joined Orpheus Cyber as COO. Orpheus is a threat intelligence company with a SAAS platform that helps organisations manage their own risk, and that of their third parties, with an easy-to-understand cyber risk score.  Karla is an industry awards judge, the host of industry interviews on the Cyber Talks media platform and the Zero Hour Podcast. She is also an experienced speaker, on the topic of cyber security and women in technology.  Karla was included in SC Magazine’s Top 50 Women in Security in 2019. She was a finalist at the Women of the Future awards in 2016, for Entrepreneur of the Year and a finalist in The Future Ladies Awards for Mentor of the Year in 2019. Karla’s website link Karla on LinkedIn Karla on Instagram Karla on Twitter @karla_reffold Orpheus Cyber website link People and Resources Mentioned Leanne Sarah Jones Hunt on LinkedIn Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#66 How to Grow Your Recruitment Business by Hiring Top Recruiters, with Leanne Sara Jones Hunt   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter