Radio Free Mormon

RFM and Bill sit down with David Bokovoy and with a title like that, who knows where the conversation might go………… David Bokovoy holds a PhD in Hebrew Bible and the Ancient Near East and an MA in Near Eastern and Judaic Studies both from Brandeis University. He received his BA from Brigham Young University, majoring in History and minoring in Near Eastern Studies. In addition to his work in Mormon studies, David has published articles on the Hebrew Bible in a variety of academic venues including the Journal of Biblical Literature, Vetus Testamentum, Studies in the Bible and Antiquity, and theFARMS RFM and Bill sit down with David Bokovoy and with a title like that, who knows where the conversation might go………… David Bokovoy holds a PhD in Hebrew Bible and the Ancient Near East and an MA in Near Eastern and Judaic Studies both from Brandeis University. He received his BA from Brigham Young University, majoring in History and minoring in Near Eastern Studies. In addition to his work in Mormon studies, David has published articles on the Hebrew Bible in a variety of academic venues including the Journal of Biblical Literature, Vetus Testamentum, Studies in the Bible and Antiquity, and theFARMS Review. He is the co-author of the book Testaments: Links Between the Book of Mormon and the Hebrew Bible.RESOURCES:https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.02955/full https://theconversation.com/homosexuality-may-have-evolved-for-social-not-sexual-reasons-128123 https://www.amazon.com/Mating-in-Captivity-Esther-Perel-audiobook/dp/B000IB0EYI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=37GYYI3COZDM6&keywords=mating+captivity&qid=1646880888&sprefix=mating+cap%2Caps%2C127&sr=8-1

This is an episode of Rameumptom Ruminations where Radio Free Mormon is interviewed. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has a track record of promoting lawyers among the ranks of the general authorities. In this very special episode, Scott brings in our resident ex-Mormon lawyer Radio Free Mormon into the Rameumptom Studio to chat about the overlap between his professional life and Mormonism.

RFM talks about his background in law from over thirty-years of practice, and applies those principles to the LDS Church. By the end, we start to get a good idea why it is the LDS Church seems to like to call lawyers to positions of leadership–especially over the Church Historian’s Office!

What happens when rather than get in close to the sticky issues of Mormonism you step back? In fact step back so far as to see the 30,000 foot view and look at what Mormonism has standing in the way of its truth claims. And how such speaks to just how reasonable and rational it is to release one’s belief in the faith and to step away having allowed oneself to be a rational logical critical thinking human being. What happens when rather than get in close to the sticky issues of Mormonism you step back? In fact step back so far as to see the 30,000 foot view and look at what Mormonism has standing in the way of its truth claims. And how such speaks to just how reasonable and rational it is to release one’s belief in the faith and to step away having allowed oneself to be a rational logical critical thinking human being. Scriptural IssuesBook of Mormon 19th Century MaterialBook of Mormon AnachronismsPlagiarism from New TestamentBook of Abraham issuesBible Translation plagiarized from Adam Clarke’s commentaryTheological changes in canon over time2nd and 3rd IsaiahSpiritual Manifestation IssueMoroni vs NephiFirst Vision DiscrepanciesSeeing the Cumorah Cave in Palmyra New York in spite of being a clean hillPeter James and John PH restoration added lateMoroni blessing MantiBrigham Young TransfigurationIssues with Joseph Smith’s CharacterLying about polygamy to Emma and othersManipulating Lucy Walker Pattern of approaching girls or young women in his home for intimate relationships (Lucy Walker, Fanny Alger, Partridge Sisters, Lawrence Sisters) Polyandry Nancy Rigdon & The Happiness Letter Underage girls (two 14 year olds, two 16 year olds, two 17 year olds) Treasure DiggingOther financial frauds: Kirtland anti-bank, land issues, bad loansScience and Critical ThinkingGreat Flood Tower of Babel Shiz rises after head cut off 2000 stripling warriors in a battle with a more experienced larger military force and not a single soul was lost not to the battle and not to infection afterwards inspite of many fainting from bloodloss Battles in the Millions around Cumorah and what it takes to have military engagement that large Moroni blessing Manti Trans Oceanic Voyage Lamanite DNA Age of the earth & EvolutionChurch AdministrationSecond Anointings 100’s of Billions of dollars saved in investments rather than solving world problems Nepotism Leaders are insulated and promote yes men Well paid Leaders SCMCPast Prophetic Deception Adam God Doctrine Racial Curse and Racial Valiancy Joseph Smith mock wedding with Partridge Sisters Treasure Digging Mountain Meadows (Brigham’s destruction of the marker and lying about it and blaming the Native Americans) 1890, 1904 Manifesto1933 lying about the 1886 John Taylor RevelationModern Prophetic DeceptionElder Holland (BBC Interview, Story about missionary meeting his brother, Double Digit Stake Creation every week of our lives) Paul Dunn President Nelson (Flight of Death, Zimbabwe, Lady in the hat)Bruce R McConkie lying about Brigham teaching Adam God Elder Oaks lying about Electroshock Therapy at BYU under his presidency Whitewashing and carefully worded denials of the Gospel Topic EssaysTom Monson JrQuinton Cook – HospitalGordon B Hinkley “I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it”Ronald Poelman and the re-do of his conference talkFalse or embellished Faith Promoting storiesSeagulls and Crickets Sweetwater Crossing Holland, Nelson yarn stretchers Brigham Young TransfigurationWhale of a taleWilfor Woodruff Founding FathersLorenzo Snow’s Jesus VisitationTrauma Placed On MembersTemple (Sexism, Objectifying Women, Penalties) One on One interviews with children and others by an untrained clergy “Worthiness” interviews Toxic Perfectionism Patriarchy Marginalizing womenMarginalization of people of colorDestruction of idiginous people’s identity  “Indian Placement Program” Diminishing those who lose faith with labels (chaff, lazy, sinful) Not having a single good story about those who leave Gaslighting people continuously regarding their history All the harm with polygamy Claiming Tithing will get you out of PovertySocial IssuesWomen have lesser place in mortality and in heaven Church still currently maintains that God actually sorted people via their skin color (Be One Celebration)Church imposes significant harm on LGBT members Civil Rights was Communism Not Proactive or reactive on Sexual Abuse People who stop believing are less than and believers should stay at distanceAlways 30-40 years late on almost every social issue in spite of being led by Prophets, Seers, and RevelatorsGlobal/government influences: Defeating ERA, Prop 8, LDS Senator votes for Iraqi War “where boots go, missionaries follow,” the two LDS men (one a Bishop) part of US Govt torture program, cultural appropriation/erasure among Native Americans, Polynesians etc, lobbying against church clergy being mandatory reporters, attempt to make Utah a two-party recording consent state, etc Stop here and discuss how every facet of Mormonism’s truth claims when dealt with logically are in favor of the critic.  That when understood collectively, the only fall back Mormonism has is Spiritual Testimony.   That in spite of all the issues, I still believe because I know by the Holy Ghost that it is true.  Except the Holy Ghost doesn’t get a free pass Ineffectiveness of the Holy Ghost as a tool to convey truthElevation Emotion Illusory Truth Effect Taking Seriously the Spiritual experiences of those outside your faith How completely wrong past leaders were in spite of their “Knowing” How wrong members have been at past times holding views with certainty when such views have been abandoned or disavowed Holy Ghost can be tested and it does no better than no Holy Ghost Leaders have been deceivedmembers have been deceived And as if that isn’t enough if you apply the same critical thinking to Jesus of Nazareth you end up having another pillar of challenges that hits at the truth of Mormonism (Though I admit also all of Christianity) Historical JesusDating of New Testament Authors Wrestling with New Testament gospel contradictions Understanding the prevalent views of Biblical CriticismHow myths are created (Sapiens) How stories easily get embellished (compare with Mormonism) How much easier in an age of unverifiable history When supernatural happens and when it doesn’t Issues with the nativity narrative BONUS ROUND (Not Covered In Episode) Immoral, harmful beliefs taught as moral and good.Problems with the concept of “fallen” man (unnecessary guilt and/or lack of personal accountability)Idolizing parricide as act of “love” and “loyalty” (God + Abraham) Justifying God’s abusive and narcissistic behaviors as “love”Forgiveness expected for misbehaving leaders “give Brother Joseph a break”Lack of empathy/blame for victimsTheological: the Flood, Hell for non-believers, misfortune as punishment (LGBTQ, apostates, etc)Local/current: blaming SA victims, clergy abuse victims, etcInternal morality given to God or those perceived to speak for himBiblical atrocities excused, even genocideGives space for modern atrocities to be committed/accepted (even victims sometimes)Early and modern polygamy/underage rape/traffickingModern spouse/child abuseMurder, theft, imprisonment of apostates/defectors/outsiders (Oliver Cowdery, Danites, Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell)Obligations to support systems that harm self/others (sexism, Prop 8, etc)Personal choices/freedoms overridden in favor of the group ideals

I was recently interviewed by the host of Priesthood Dispatches, a new podcast from one of my friends across the pond! I had a great time doing this interview and I hope you will enjoy listening to it!

Mormonism LIVE: 064: The Role of Women In The Church RFM and Bill dive into the issue of Women in the Church and their role. What does the Church want women to think and believe and what does the system of Mormonism actually tell Women about their place within the Church? We have a guest on Nicole, who along with Maven share their personal journey navigating the hurtful and unhealthy sexist messaging of the LDS Church.

RFM deconstructs the Brad Wilcox Fireside as no one else can! Strap on your seatbelts! It’s going to be a bumpy night!

The earliest account of the First Vision poses some conflict within Mormon Truth Claims about what Joseph Smith experienced and what was invented about the Founding event in Mormonism. If there is no First Vision, there is significant reason to believe the rest of Mormonism is on shaky ground. So how do apologists deal with the 1832 account of that First Vision and what does logic and common sense say about that.RESOURCES: https://www.ldsliving.com/a-closer-look-at-critiques-of-joseph-smiths-first-vision/s/92128 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-circa-summer-1832/1 https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Why_is_Joseph_Smith%27s_struggle_with_Satan_not_mentioned_in_the_1832_account_of_the_First_Vision%3F https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Was_Joseph_Smith%27s_First_Vision_Vision_set_in_heaven_or_on_earth%3F https://www.dropbox.com/s/ooewni4lmhdul9m/Rod%20Decker-Vogel-Peterson-2004.wmv?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/tooif2mz619x5h2/Brad%20Wilcox%201st%20Vision.mp4?dl=0

RFM has saved the best for last in this third and final installment of his landmark series on Magic and Mormonism. Turns out all those hours of practicing magic as a kid weren’t a complete waste of time after all!

BYU has a history of manipulating & pressuring its educators into consistently stopping short of teaching modern best accepted ideas and research. While it claims to be a university that values education what it really does it limit the critical thinking skills and works to prevent its students from having access to the best information. We start by discussing the modern moment where BYU has changed its policy around the worthiness of BYU and CES Educators to control what is taught in the classroom and then we dive deep into the past to show the more things change the more they stay the same. And lastly we demonstrate that agency really is a value that The Church’s mouth writes but their actions just aren’t cashing. A.) BYU’s (All of CES) New policy for its staff (Notice the Church speaks officially for BYU as it is one and the same) The old Wording vs the new wordingThe new policy is: “to hold and be worthy to hold a current temple recommend.”The Old policy is “ “accept as a condition of employment the standards of conduct consistent with qualifying for temple privileges”Friend and One of the Mole Professors I have on the inside of BYU. (We’ll call him Elder Dyches for anonymity) “Elder Dyches” told me that “Under that condition, I could tell my bishop I qualify, but am not interested in having a recommend and it wouldn’t affect my employment.”The permutations of such a changeGives more control to Salt Lake over local leaders and the CES staff those leaders have stewardship for as “worthiness issues arise in an employees behavior (AKA – Apostate Teachings in Seminary or BYU college classesImagine Pressure to stay in line this adds.  Is it significant? Maybe not versus the old wording but it absolutely feels like additional undue influence.  BYU is simply looking for just cause AKA – breaking the “Worthiness Standard”.  Even if on a loophole that involves abusive underhanded methods intended to manipulate people into obedience and loyalty over conscience. B.) Which led me to wanting to share with you The 1911 Brigham Young University modernity controversy In 1907, then BYU president George H. Brimhall (No you silly gooses Elder Oaks wasn’t BYU president back then.  He’s not that old) began hiring a new group of faculty to increase the academic reputation of his school.  His goal “to include in [his] faculty … the best scholars of the church.” (Brimhall was 55 yr old)1907 Joseph Peterson – Psychology (Joseph Peterson was the first Ph.D on the faculty of BYU)1907 Henry Peterson – College of Education.1908 Ralph Vary Chamberlin – Biology1909 William Henry Chamberlin– PhilosophyThese were devout Mormons but who were sought out intentionally to bring the Church’s College approach into Modernity including increasing the intellectual atmosphere of the university and community.This led to these four facilitating discussion and debates on evolution and the Bible, and attempting  to convey that evolutionary ideas and Mormon theology were not mutually exclusive, but rather complementaryThese four professors were popular.They liberal ideas are being met with disapprovalHorace H. Cummings, superintendent of the church schools (and largely self-educated) was deeply bothered by the non-approved curriculum being brought in.Church officials accused the professors of promoting heretical views. First Presidency of the LDS church, consisting of Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder, Anthon H. Lund (Around the beginning of 1910 the First Presidency asked Orson F Whitney to draft an official statement on “the Origin of Man”)It was decided that these men “were out of harmony with the brethren” and Horace H. Cummings offered the Petersons and Ralph Chamberlin a choice: alter their teachings or lose their jobs. Privately, Joseph B. Keeler told Ralph Chamberlin he could stay (His curriculum must have been pretty Vanilla), but he refused, as the Petersons weren’t given the same offer.Brimhall – “There are some people who predict the death of the college if these men go. I am ready to say that if the life of the college depends upon any number of men out of harmony with the brethren who preside over the church, then it is time for the college to die.”Ralph Chamberlin responded during the meeting between these four teachers and the School administration (which included 6 Church leaders) “If you can bring me one student whose faith I have injured in Mormonism, I will bring you five that you, through your narrowness, have driven out of the church. … I never gave a public lecture on evolution until I had consulted you as to whether it would be all right. You urged me to do it. Now, why have you changed suddenly?” Brimhall could only feebly joke, “Well, I’ll tell you, Brother Chamberlin, I know whi ch side my bread’s buttered on.”Unwilling to change their teachings, the Petersons and Ralph Chamberlin left the university in 1911, while William remained for another 5 years, resigning in 1916.The University of Utah in Salt Lake City had a similar controversy — what some at the time described as ‘a tempest in a teapot’ — erupted four years later in February 1915. There, the dismissals of two professors and two instructors by President Joseph T. Kingsbury — and the subsequent resignations of 14 faculty members in protest — launched the American Association of University Professors’ first institutional academic freedom inquest, spearheaded by AAUP founders Arthur O. Lovejoy and John Dewey. The 1911 BYU controversy — involving some of the same professors, including the Peterson brothers and the Chamberlins — led in part to the University of Utah debacleThe BYU and University of Utah incidents were a big impetus for the passing of the 1915 declaration of principles on academic freedom and academic tenure Conclusion: The Salt Lake Tribunes many as 80 percent of the faculty sympathized with the Petersons and Chamberlin. When Joseph F. Smith was told that “a number of [Provo] merchants and others favoring the … teachers had withdrawn their patronage from the [White and Blue],” he “spoke up immediately and said that the First Presidency wanted no change in the paper’s policy and … [said] he would instruct [Zion’s Savings Bank] to keep the paper out of financial difficulties.” Smith also admonished his son, Andrew, a student at the high school adjoining BYU: “For my sake, my son, as well as your own[,] eschew the Petersons’ and Chamberlin’s evolution and all such things.” On 13 March over 100 undergraduates assembled on campus in a mass rally to “stand by their teachers.” The students distributed a petition “ratifying and endorsing the teaching of the professors, and praying for their retention by the Board of Trustees.” Of a total college enrollment of 114 undergraduates, as well as a handful of professors, over 90 students and faculty signed the statement, which both the Tribune and the Herald-Republican printed. Predictably, the Deseret News chastised the students for airing their criticisms in print, especially in the Tribune, while Brimhall publicly scolded them for “dictating” to the “prophets.”Brimhall discussing the issue with Reed Smoot – Throughout the following weeks, Brimhall was left to deal as best he could with dissatisfied faculty and students. In mid-May, he wrote again to Smoot, “I would be in perfect misery if I were not in harmony with those over me—I can stand it to be out of harmony with others. My policy has been to follow the interests of our faculty and also follow the interests of the student body, [but] I cannot be expected to follow either of the latter unless they are in perfect harmony with those above me.” Smoot replied supportively, “If the time ever comes that it is impossible for me to be in harmony with my presiding officer, I will quickly resign, if it involves any great principle affecting my conscience or my religious beliefs.”Joseph Keeler (a counselor to Brimhall in the BYU presidency) later asked, “Brother Chamberlin, why can’t you teach this subject the way we want it taught, [instead of] the way you’re teaching it?” Chamberlin replied, “I’m so constituted that I can’t teach what I don’t believe.” Following the controversy, many faculty and students were reluctant to discuss some “matters of scientific and sociological value [p.36]for fear of losing their positions and receiving the boycott of the church.” Others began asking if there were “any [other] doctrines of the church which [were] inconsistent with the commonly accepted conclusions of science.” School trustees approved a new teaching contract in October 1911 which required loyalty to church authorities as a condition of employment.Back to current momentThe Voluntary adoption of the new policy Mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses –  “https://catalog.byu.edu/about-byu/administration –  Who is at the head of BYU (They are one and the SAME RESOURCES: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1911_Brigham_Young_University_modernism_controversy https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1af8pt/in_1911_a_professor_was_fired_from_byu_for/https://josephsmithfoundation.org/faqs/science/13-3-byu-professors-why-did-president-joseph-f-smith-dismiss-three-professors-from-brigham-young-university-for-teaching-organic-evolution/ https://www.aaup.org/NR/rdonlyres/A6520A9D-0A9A-47B3-B550-C006B5B224E7/0/1915Declaration.pdf https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/george-h-brimhalls-legacy-of-service-to-brigham-young-university/https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Salt_Lake_Tribune/B._Y._U._Students_Destroy_Reply_of_the_Presidency_and_Make_Public_the_Protest_They_Formulated https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/09/07/can-unique-byu-really-be/https://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2016/12/cyclical-nature-byus-religious-education/https://byu.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=2ba3f012bcd865407204981a0&id=b74a02af7a&e=f9fae89146https://hrs.byu.edu/byu-employment-standard https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-educational-system-employment-standards-refinements https://hrs.byu.edu/byu-employment-standard https://news.byu.edu/announcements/a-message-from-president-worthen http://signaturebookslibrary.org/the-1911-evolution-controversy-at-brigham-young-university/ https://web.archive.org/web/20181013203310/https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/013-10-16.pdf https://biology.byu.edu/00000172-29e6-d079-ab7e-69efe5890000/byu-evolution-packethttps://catalog.byu.edu/about-byu/administrationChurch Board of Education and Board of TrusteesPresident Russell M. Nelson ChairmanPresident Dallin H. Oaks First Vice ChairmanPresident Henry B. Eyring Second Vice ChairmanElder Jeffrey R. Holland Board MemberElder D. Todd Christofferson Board MemberElder Paul V. Johnson Board MemberElder Michael T. Ringwood Board MemberBishop Gérald Caussé Board MemberSister Jean B. Bingham Board MemberSister Bonnie H. Cordon Board MemberBrother Steven J. Lund Board MemberR. Kelly Haws Secretary