
Pondering AI
How is the use of artificial intelligence (AI) shaping our human experience?
Kimberly Nevala ponders the reality of AI with a diverse group of innovators, advocates and data scientists. Ethics and uncertainty. Automation and art. Work, politics and culture. In real life and online. Contemplate AI’s impact, for better and worse.
All presentations represent the opinions of the presenter and do not represent the position or the opinion of SAS.
Latest episodes

4 snips
Apr 19, 2023 • 47min
Keeping Work Human with Dr. Christina Colclough
Dr. Christina Colclough discusses tech determinism, human labor value, managerial fuzz, collective will, digital rights, and participatory AI deployment. She highlights the disconnect between public fascination and worker experience, the neglect of the labor market in AI regulation, and the need for critical analysis. They explore regulating AI systems, the importance of inclusive governance and transparency, and the protection of labor while adapting to technological changes.

Apr 5, 2023 • 46min
Practical Ethics with Reid Blackman
Reid Blackman, AI ethics expert, discusses practical approaches to AI ethics, debunking ethicists as moral priests, balancing advocacy vs. activism, and distinguishing AI ethics from ethics writ large. He emphasizes the importance of language, justified buy-in, and concrete ethical guidance. The chapter also explores the challenges of fanaticism and the need for a flexible ethics framework for emerging technologies.

Mar 22, 2023 • 50min
Generative AI: Unreal Realities with Ilke Demir
Ilke Demir depicts the state of generative AI, deepfakes for good, the emotional shelf life of synthesized media, and methods to identify AI-generated content.Ilke provides a primer on traditional generative models and generative AI. Outlining the fast-evolving capabilities of generative AI, she also notes their current lack of controls and transparency. Ilke then clarifies the term deepfake and highlights applications of ‘deepfakes for good.’Ilke and Kimberly discuss whether the explosion of generated imagery creates an un-reality that sets ‘perfectly imperfect’ humans up for failure. An effervescent optimist, Ilke makes a compelling case that the true value of photos and art comes from our experiences and memories. She then provides a fascinating tour of emerging techniques to detect and indelibly identify generated media. Last but not least, Ilke affirms the need for greater public literacy and accountability by design.Ilke Demir is a Sr. Research Scientist at Intel. Her research team focuses on generative models for digitizing the real world, deepfake detection and generation techniques.A transcript of this episode is here.

Mar 8, 2023 • 1h 7min
Plain Talk About Talking AI with J Mark Bishop
Professor J Mark Bishop reflects on the trickiness of language, how LLMs work, why ChatGPT can’t understand, the nature of AI and emerging theories of mind.Mark explains what large language models (LLM) do and provides a quasi-technical overview of how they work. He also exposes the complications inherent in comprehending language. Mark calls for more philosophical analysis of how systems such as GPT-3 and ChatGPT replicate human knowledge. Yet, understand nothing. Noting the astonishing outputs resulting from more or less auto-completing large blocks of text, Mark cautions against being taken in by LLM’s disarming façade.Mark then explains the basis of the Chinese Room thought experiment and the hotly debated conclusion that computation does not lead to semantic understanding. Kimberly and Mark discuss the nature of learning through the eyes of a child and whether computational systems can ever be conscious. Mark describes the phenomenal experience of understanding (aka what it feels likes). And how non-computational theories of mind may influence AI development. Finally, Mark reflects on whether AI will be good for the few or the many.Professor J Mark Bishop is the Professor of Cognitive Computing (Emeritus) at Goldsmith College, University of London and Scientific Advisor to FACT360.A transcript of this episode is here.

Feb 22, 2023 • 44min
In AI We Trust with Chris McClean
Chris McClean discusses ethics vs. risk, positive outcomes, trust, expanding definitions of privacy, and the role we play in creating the digital ecosystem. They explore the importance of digital ethics, highlight the need to consider various ethical impacts in AI, and discuss trust-related harms caused by AI systems. The interplay between digital makers and takers is explored, emphasizing responsible innovation. They also delve into surveillance vs. monitoring in the workplace, and the ethical aspects of the metaverse, including privacy concerns and positive uses.

Feb 8, 2023 • 40min
AI for Sustainable Development with Henrik Skaug Sætra
Henrik Skaug Sætra contends humans aren’t mere machines, assesses AI thru a sustainable development lens and weighs the effect of political imbalances and ESG.Henrik embraces human complexity. He advises against applying AI to naturally messy problems or to influence populations least able to resist. Henrik outlines how the UN Sustainable Development Goals (SDG) can identify beneficial and marketable avenues for AI. He also describes SDG’s usefulness in ethical impact assessment. Championing affordable and equitable access to technology, Henrik shows how disparate impacts occur between individuals, groups and society. Along the way, Kimberly and Henrik discuss political imbalances, the technocratic nature of emerging regulations and why we shouldn’t expect corporations to be broadly ethical of their own accord. Outlining his AI ESG protocol, Henrik surmises that qualitative rigor can address gaps in quantitative analysis alone. Finally, Henrik encourages the proactive use of SDGs and ESG to drive innovation and opportunity.Henrik is Head of the Digital Society and an Associate Professor at Østfold University College. He is a political theorist focusing on the political, ethical, and social implications of technology.A transcript of this episode can be found here.

Aug 3, 2022 • 39min
The Philosophy of AI with Dr. Mark Coeckelbergh
Dr. Mark Coeckelbergh, Professor of Philosophy of Media and Technology, member of the High-Level Expert Group on Artificial Intelligence (EC) and the Austrian Council on Robotics and AI, discusses the political implications of AI and technology, the challenges of incorporating ethics and human aspects into AI discussions, and the need for collaboration and education in the field. He also emphasizes the difficulty of global governance and sounds a cautionary note about the potential for AI to undermine democratic institutions.

Jul 20, 2022 • 39min
Keeping Science in Data Science with Patrick Hall
Patrick Hall is the Principal Scientist at bnh.ai.Patrick artfully illustrates how data science has become divorced from scientific rigor. At least, that is, in popular conceptions of the practice. Kimberly and Patrick discuss the pernicious influence of the McNamara Fallacy, applying the scientific method to algorithmic development and keeping an open mind without sacrificing concept validity. Patrick addresses the recent hubbub around AI sentience, cautions against using AI in social contexts and identifies the problems AI algorithms are best suited to solve. Noting AI is no different than any other mission-critical software, he outlines the investment and oversight required for AI programs to deliver value. Patrick promotes managing AI systems like products and makes the case for why performance in the lab should not be the first priority.A transcript of this episode can be found here.

Jul 6, 2022 • 42min
Synthesizing the Future with Fernando Lucini
Fernando Lucini is the Global Data Science & ML Engineering Lead (aka Chief Data Scientist) at Accenture.Fernando Lucini outlines common uses for AI generated synthetic data. He emphasizes that synthetic data is a facsimile – close, but not quite real - and debunks the notion it is inherently private. Kimberly and Fernando discuss the potential pitfalls in synthetic data sets, the emergent need for standard controls, and why ensuring quality - much less fairness - is not simple. Fernando assesses the current state of the synthetic data market and the work still to be done to enable broad-scale adoption. Tipping his hat to fabulous achievements such as GPT-3 and Dall-E, Fernando identifies multiple ways synthetic data can be used for good works and creative endeavors.A transcript of this episode can be found here.

Jun 22, 2022 • 46min
The Future of Human Decision Making with Roger Spitz
Roger Spitz is the CEO of Techistential and Chairman of the Disruptive Futures Institute.In this thought-provoking discussion, Roger discusses why neither humans nor AI systems are great at decision making in complex environments. But why humans should be. Roger unveils the insidious influence of AI systems on human decisions and why uncertainty is a pre-requisite for human choice, freedom, and agency. Kimberly and Roger discuss the implications of complexity, the rising cost of poor assumptions, and the dangerous allure of delegating too many decisions to AI-enabled machines. Outlining the AAA (antifragile, anticipatory, agile) model for decision-making in the face of deep uncertainty, Roger differentiates foresight from strategic planning and anticipatory agility from ‘move fast and break things.’ Last but not least, Roger argues that current educational incentives run counter to nurturing the mindset and skills needed to thrive in our increasingly complex, emergent world.A transcript of this episode can be found here.
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