Today I am joined by Ben Cattaneo, founder of The Decision-Making Studio, to explore the fascinating world of decision-making under uncertainty. Ben shares a compelling first story about an organization entering the Chinese market, drawn by opportunity but ultimately facing challenges they didn’t foresee. It’s a classic case of a simple narrative—“they didn’t understand the market”—but as we unpack the second story, we explore the deeper factors at play: local rationality, fear of missing out, internal pressures, and incentive structures that drive decisions in complex systems. Find Ben Here: Website: The Decision-Making Studio LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-cattaneo/ My "FOCUS" decision-making framework: https://thedecisionmaking.studio/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/FOCUS.pdf Recommended Resources: Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke Quit: The Power of Knowing When to Walk Away by Annie Duke Gary Klein's Works on Intuition and Decision-Making Find Gareth here: Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here

In this episode, I'm joined by Mike Mason, an experienced fast-jet pilot, flight instructor and The Human Diver trainer, to explore the often-overlooked complexity of human factors in high-risk environments. Mike brings a fascinating perspective, blending his experience in the Royal Air Force and his passion for diving, to shed light on how decisions are made under pressure. We dive into a reported incident involving an MQ-9 Reaper UAV crash and dissect the layers of context that often go unnoticed in simple “first stories.” Together, we discuss fatigue, local rationality, and the influence of organisational culture on decision-making in critical situations. What struck me in this conversation is how much we focus on blame rather than curiosity. Mike and I unpack the gaps in traditional incident reporting and the missed opportunities to learn, adapt, and grow. It’s a thought-provoking discussion on the messiness of real-world operations and why understanding the conditions that shape behaviour is key to improving outcomes. Whether you’re in aviation, diving, or any other high-consequence industry, this episode is packed with insights on how we can move beyond ticking boxes and start building a culture of genuine learning. Resources Mentioned: Book Recommendation: Field Guide to Understanding Human Error by Sidney Decker Mike Mason’s Website: On Target Teaming The Human Diver: Learn More Accident Report from USAF: https://www.afjag.af.mil/Portals/77/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=rE1pY1KpuPw%3D&portalid=77 Research: What you look for is what you find - Lundberg et al.  What you find is not always what you fix - Lundberg at al. Connect With Us: Gareth: LinkedIn Mike Mason: LinkedIn Find me here: Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here

Today, I’m joined by Ben Goodhart, founder of Magpie Human Systems, a consultancy working in high-stakes industries like aviation, energy, and healthcare. Ben’s background as a pilot, accident investigator, and lifelong adventurer makes him uniquely qualified to dig into the nuances of risk and reward, and he does so with humor, insight, and honesty. In this episode, Ben shares some fantastic stories—from a near-disastrous glissade on a snowfield (while wearing crampons!) to a high-speed mountain bike crash that left him with a neck brace and a powerful reflection on risk. These stories are more than entertaining; they dive into the deeper questions of why we take risks, how we manage them, and what we learn when things don’t go as planned. We discuss the idea of risk not just as a negative concept but as a pathway to adventure, growth, and self-discovery. Ben brings fresh perspectives on the balance between control and surrender, the evolution of safety technology, and the ways adventure sports can teach humility, curiosity, and resilience. Along the way, we draw parallels to high-risk industries, exploring how decision-making under pressure and the negotiation of trade-offs applies to both work and play. Find Ben Here: Ben Goodhart’s consultancy: Magpie Human Systems Resources Mentioned: Minus 148 Degrees: The First Winter Ascent of Mount McKinley by Art Davidson Reinhold Messner’s mountaineering books Risk Savvy: How to Make Good Decisions by Gerd Gigerenzer Find me here: Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here

In this episode, I had the absolute pleasure of sitting down with Ken Wylie, an incredible adventure educator and risk management expert from Vancouver Island. Ken’s story is one of transformation, resilience, and learning from the toughest experiences life can throw at us. Ken shares his journey from a young adventurer passionate about the mountains to his work in human hazard management. We dive into one pivotal event—a tragic backcountry skiing accident—that shaped his perspective on risk, decision-making, and the social and psychological factors that influence our choices. Ken doesn’t just tell a first story, the surface-level narrative most of us default to—he unpacks the deeper, second story, challenging us to reflect on how we navigate uncertainty and growth in our own lives. We explore some big ideas, including the Hero’s Journey and how archetypes shape how we show up in challenging situations. Ken’s perspective on balancing logic (Logos) with intuition and emotion (Eros) is a powerful reminder that sometimes, the greatest adventure is understanding ourselves. Plus, we dig into the emotional and social pressures that influence risk-taking and why it’s so important to turn adversity into a learning opportunity. This episode is full of thought-provoking insights, personal reflections, and some actionable takeaways for anyone trying to navigate the complexities of human systems—whether that’s in high-stakes environments or just everyday life. Find Ken here: Archetypal (Human Hazard Management) Book Recommendation Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell  Find me here: Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here  

Abhijith Balakrishnan, a master mariner and safety manager, shares his expertise on maritime safety and auditing challenges. He highlights the gap between compliance and real safety practices, arguing that traditional audits often miss the dynamics at sea. Abhijith emphasizes the need for a shift towards understanding operational contexts rather than just following regulations. He discusses building trust within organizations and advocates for a holistic approach to safety, incorporating insights from sailors to enhance auditing processes.

Josh Bryant, General Manager of People, Risk, and Sustainability at Mitchell Services, shares his passion for workplace safety and operational learning. He recounts a serious hand-crush incident, emphasizing a shift from blaming individuals to understanding systemic issues. The introduction of the '4Ds' framework transforms their safety culture by fostering open communication and collaboration. Josh advocates for sharing safety best practices, highlighting the importance of learning teams to cultivate curiosity and enhance organizational safety.

In this engaging discussion, Ron Gantt, HSE Director at Yondr and co-host of the Punk Rock Safety podcast, dives into the hidden complexities of waste collection. He sheds light on the safety risks that arise from unrealistic policies and inadequate training. Ron emphasizes the importance of understanding worker adaptations as a way to identify systemic issues. He advocates for deep audits that focus on real-world operations rather than mere compliance, calling for a culture of proactive safety and support for frontline workers.

This episode features a conversation with Jayson Coil, an Assistant Fire Chief and incident commander. Coil discusses the importance of understanding the “local rationality” or how seemingly irrational decisions made by people in complex situations often make sense within their own context. Jayson explains how the lack of personnel in critical support roles like logistics and planning, often due to competing demands from their primary employers, presents a significant challenge to wildfire management. Finally, Jayson highlights the importance of learning from past experiences, particularly by sharing tacit knowledge gained through experience and avoiding the tendency to simply attribute outcomes to luck or skill. Jayson Coil Jayson Coil is the Assistant Fire Chief and Paramedic for Sedona Fire District with over 25 years of experience. His career began as a Combat Engineer (Airborne) in the U.S. Army, and he has since held numerous roles in fire service, including Captain, Battalion Chief, and Interim Fire Chief. With 20+ years on a National Type 1 Incident Management Team, he has responded to 97 disasters across 17 states. He holds a Master’s in Leadership focused on Disaster Preparedness and is pursuing a Ph.D. in Performance Psychology. Coil is recognized for leadership development, decision-making, and his work in public health. He lives near Flagstaff, Arizona, and enjoys photography, hunting, and backpacking. Links and downloads Left of Bang. In Left of Bang, authors Patrick Van Horne and Jason A. Riley explore the development of "combat profiling"—a proactive strategy to identify and mitigate potential threats based on the recognition of behavioral patterns. The skills outlined allow individuals not only to foresee dangers in military operations, but also in civilian environments. Cynefin Framework. The Cynefin Framework was developed to help leaders understand their challenges and to make decisions in context. By distinguishing different domains (the subsystems in which we operate), it recognises that our actions need to match the reality we find ourselves in through a process of sense-making. Interpersonal Skills - Discovery of Nexus Applied Critical Thinking. Effective Direction. Bespoke consultancy focusing on developing the skills associated with Applied Critical Thinking UK Ministry of Defence Red Teaming Handbook US Army Handbook of Applied Critical Thinking Aircrews, Rules and the Bogeyman: Mapping the Benefits and Fears of Non-compliance - Leonie Boskeljon-Horst. Although rules support people while executing tasks, they are not the same as work-as-done. It can be impossible to follow the rules and finish the job at the same time. In this study, the objective is to better understand the stakes and interests that lie behind retaining gaps between work-as-prescribed and work-as-done, mapping the benefits and fears of noncompliance    Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here