Turning Towards Life - a Thirdspace podcast

On the astonishing power of metaphors to reframe our sense of who we are, what’s possible, and how we might hear and speak with one another… and on the ocean’s vastness and depth as a invitation for us to contain multitudes, especially when in the midst of our most challenging conversations. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction and Context Setting 03:05 Exploring the Poem: 'Until I Thought of Myself as the Sea' 05:58 The Ocean Metaphor: Embracing Complexity 09:05 The Power of Metaphor in Self-Understanding 11:47 Widening Perspectives: The Ocean as a Shared Experience 14:52 Navigating Difficult Conversations with Oceanic Awareness 17:50 Truth and Multiplicity: The Ocean of Perspectives 20:59 Systems Thinking: The Ocean of Relationships 24:02 Conclusion and Reflection Here’s our source for this week: Until I thought of myself as the sea I used to separate good days from bad until  I thought of myself as an ocean. I used to  split times I felt strong from when I felt weak  until I imagined myself as the sea. Calm and  rocky, wild and soft, still and powerful and vast  and more than any one thing. In the ocean it's  hard to divorce one mood from another, one wave  from the next. Now, on my worst days, I think  of how good life is too, how I still can greet joy  while swimming through grief. How fragile  strength feels. How I'm not any one thing in any  one moment on any one day. I'm all of it and  all of it is me. Hannah Rosenberg @hannahrowrites Photo by Sean Oulashin on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

What if we see ‘the self’ not as something fixed, but as an ongoing act of responsibility and ever-unfinished creation… a way we make ourselves by how we live, the choices we make, and the way of relating to others and the world that we follow? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction to Turning Towards Life 02:44 Exploring the Source: Be Yourself 04:37 The Creative Act of Being Ourselves 08:09 FindingTribe and Belonging 15:20 The Power of Choice and Response 18:55 Gentleness and Boldness in Self-Creation Here’s our source for this week: Be Yourself Really? Which self? The self you were when you were two years old, almost out of diapers? The self you were when you were screaming with the fans at the big game? The self you were after a long night? How about this: Become the self you’d be proud to be. Hang out with people and ideas that help you become that self. Act like that self every chance you get. Seth Godin from Seth’s Blog Photo by Nijwam Swargiary on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

How do we discover what brings life and vitality to us? How do we identify and acknowledge the destructive forces within ourselves? Can we approach the complex, ongoing process of discernment with maturity and nuance, avoiding simplistic judgments? And what resources or practices can we trust to guide us through this challenging work? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction and Context of the Conversation 02:57 Our Source for This Week, by Nick Cave 06:05 The Nature of Evil and Human Complexity 08:41 The Inherent Potential for Goodness in Humanity 12:00 The Cosmic Disposition Towards Goodness 14:47 The Duality of Good and Evil in Human Experience 17:45 The Responsibility of Attending to Sorrow 20:46 The Choice to Cultivate Goodness 24:05 The Power of Intentional Living 26:41 The Complexity of Human Relationships 30:01 The Importance of Slowing Down and Reflecting 33:01 Conclusion and Reflection on the Conversation Woven Into Everything I am inclined to believe in a form of intelligence within the universe, as I hold that consciousness or ‘intelligence’  exists throughout everything, that it goes all the way down to the fundamental atomic matter of things. This force, woven into everything - both living and non-living - is inherently good. If we choose, we could call this force God. I view this power as a kind of cosmic disposition that grows, understands, and empathises with us - suffers with us, you might say - and that humans are ‘fractal', as Cormac so beautifully puts it, exemplars or metaphors of the melancholic nature of this God-soaked universe. I believe that evil exists not only within the human heart but also as an external energy separate from us, moving through the world - a nullifying, destructive potency - 'going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it’. We can see it, if we choose, all around us. Yet, we can act as the remedy to this existential predicament by directing our efforts towards the world’s flourishing and away from its destruction, in whatever way we can. It is our duty to attend to the sorrow of the universe - the sorrow of God. Nick Cave from The Red Hand Files Issue # 342 Photo by NASA on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

The conversation dives into the necessity of making the implicit explicit in our relationships. Both hosts explore the cognitive biases that lead to misunderstandings and the emotional resistances that prevent open communication. They emphasize the importance of slowing down while speaking to allow for deeper sharing and understanding. Discussing the pragmatic aspects, they highlight how explicit communication can strengthen personal and societal connections. Ultimately, they explore the risks and creativity that come from revealing our inner thoughts.

The central work of our lives over the last 15 years or so has been as practicing integral development coaches, and as teachers of this way of guiding and supporting others. In this conversation we explore what it is to be a ‘coach’ in this way, to use our humanity, intelligence, hearts and life force to grow wings and then to help other people grow wings of their own. It’s such a rewarding, life-giving endeavour, and it teaches us ever more about being a person and taking care of others. Join us for an exploration of what ‘guiding people up and out’ might be, with inspiration from a lovely and inspiring poem by Ellie Steel. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction 03:03 Exploring Aliveness: A Central Theme 05:54 Navigating by Aliveness: Insights and Reflections 09:10 The Distinction Between Aliveness and Happiness 11:59 Embracing the Full Spectrum of Human Experience 14:52 Creatures of Creation: Our Relationship with Life 17:55 Intimacy with Existence: The Heart of Aliveness 20:56 The Cost of Control: Reconnecting with Aliveness 27:13 The Dance of Control and Aliveness 30:01 Curiosity as a Pathway to Freedom 33:04 The Nature of Care and Connection Here’s our source for this week: Wings (for Miss) Under her wings I live and grow and against and with the feathers soft and strong that open over the heads of all who reach up guiding up and out until the wings flutter away and we who are not in need grow wings for ourselves and open them up to those without wings Ellie Steel From She Will Soar: Bright, Brave Poems about Freedom by Women (link on Bookstore) Photo by Torianna Marasco on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords: coaching, wings metaphor, againstness relationship, growth facilitation, multidirectional holding, self-generating capacity, coaching philosophy, lineage importance, power dynamics, tender development, mutual growth, generative listening, creative holding, leaping ahead, integral development, community practice, dignified support, holding system, personal transformation, growth orientation, generosity practice, wingless to winged People: Ellie Steel (poet who wrote "Wings") Martin Heidegger (philosopher referenced by Lizzie when discussing the concept of "jumping ahead" or "leaping ahead") Cast of the TV Show 'Shrinking'

“The concept that sits right at the heart of a sane and meaningful life,” writes Oliver Burkeman “is something like aliveness.” In this conversation we explore what it is to attend to aliveness, how we might come to notice its presence, and consider steps any of us can take to cultivate it. And we talk about how vital this is in an age where we may find ourselves encouraged in many places to become part of an algorithm - to act in life as if we were machines rather than creative beings who are part of a vast and inherently creative universe. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction 03:03 Exploring Aliveness: A Central Theme 05:54 Navigating by Aliveness: Insights and Reflections 09:10 The Distinction Between Aliveness and Happiness 11:59 Embracing the Full Spectrum of Human Experience 14:52 Creatures of Creation: Our Relationship with Life 17:55 Intimacy with Existence: The Heart of Aliveness 20:56 The Cost of Control: Reconnecting with Aliveness 27:13 The Dance of Control and Aliveness 30:01 Curiosity as a Pathway to Freedom 33:04 The Nature of Care and Connection Here’s our source for this week: The Path of Aliveness The concept that sits right at the heart of a sane and meaningful life, I’m increasingly convinced, is something like aliveness. It goes by other names, too, none of which quite nail it – but it’s the one thing that, so long as you navigate by it, you’ll never go too far wrong. Sometimes it feels like a subtle electrical charge behind what’s happening, or a mildly heightened sense of clarity, or sometimes like nothing I can put into words at all. I freely concede it’s a hopelessly unscientific idea. But I’m pretty sure it’s what Joseph Campbell meant when he said that most of us aren’t really seeking the meaning of life, but rather “an experience of being alive… so that we actually feel the rapture” – although personally I don’t think it’s always rapturous, per se – “of being alive.”In literal terms, of course, “aliveness” can’t be the right word here, because technically everyone’s alive all the time, whereas aliveness comes and goes. Still, I know it when I feel it. And I definitely know it when my misguided efforts to exert too much control over reality cause it to drain away.  And so an excellent question to ask yourself – when you’re facing a tough decision, say, or wondering if you’re on the right track – is: “Does this feel like it’s taking me in the direction of greater aliveness?”Crucially, aliveness isn’t the same as happiness. As the Zen teacher Christian Dillo explains in his engrossing book The Path of Aliveness, you can absolutely feel alive in the midst of intense sadness. Aliveness, he writes, “isn’t about feeling *better*; it’s about *feeling*better.” When I feel aliveness in my work, it’s not because every task is an unadulterated pleasure; and when I feel it in my close relationships, it’s not because I’ve transcended the capacity to get annoyed by other people – because believe me, I haven’t. But to whatever extent I *do* manage what Dillo refers to as fully inhabiting my experience, life is good, in a deep sense, and more vibrant, and I feel more connected to others – and overall, happiness tends to predominate…   I think it might be the key to understanding how to think and feel about AI, how to respond to it, how to integrate it into our lives or not – and how to ensure, as technology marches on, that we don’t lose sight of what really matters for a meaningfully productive life.  Most obviously, aliveness is what generally feels absent from the written and visual outputs of ChatGPT and its ilk, even when they’re otherwise of high quality… It makes you wonder if Wendell Berry had it right when he wrote: “It is easy for me to imagine that the next great division of the world will be between people who wish to live as creatures and people who wish to live as machines.”…  I think it’s good to stay fully, even slightly foolishly, committed to the idea that humans doing human things, with other humans, is and will remain at the vital heart of human existence. Because otherwise what on earth’s the point? Oliver Burkeman The full text of this wonderful post can be found on Oliver’s website ‘The Imperfectionist’, where you can also find out about his books and sign up to his mailing list. Photo by yunona uritsky on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

We make the world, and unmake that which doesn’t serve, by our everyday actions and inactions, our intentional taking care and our turning away. What does it take to have the courage, humility and compassion to attend as fully as we can to the world, to step towards a world we want to live in? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Welcome to Turning Towards Life 02:49 The Joy of Coaching and Community 07:08 Understanding the Shambhala Warrior 12:17 Interconnectedness and Community Resilience 17:08 Humility in Compassionate Action 23:12 The Complexity of Truth and Instant Gratification 28:46 The Call to Action and Hope Here’s our source for this week: Joanna Macy: The Shambhala Warrior Now the time comes when great courage is required of the Shambhala warriors, moral courage and physical courage. That is because they’re going right into the heart of the barbarian’s power to dismantle their power and dismantle their weapons, weapons in every sense of the word. As they make their way into the pits and citadels where the armaments are made, so are they also entering the corridors of power where decisions are made. Now, heed this. The Shambhala warriors know these weapons can be dismantled. That is because they are manomaya, an old word that means “mind-made.” Made by the human mind, they can be unmade by the human mind. The dangers facing us are not fashioned by some satanic deity or by an evil extraterrestrial force or by some immutable preordained fate. These dangers are created by our relationships, our habits, our choices. “So now is the time,” said Chogyal Rinpoche, “for the Shambhala warriors to go into training.” “How do they train?” I asked. “They train in the use of two implements or tools.” “What are they?” I asked, and he held up his hands the way the lamas hold the ritual objects, the dorje and bell, in the great monastic dances of his people. “One,” he said, “is compassion. The other is insight into the radical interdependence of all phenomena. You need both,” he said. “You need compassion because it provides the fuel to move you out where you need to be in order to do what you need to do. It means not being afraid of the suffering of your world. That tool is very hot. By itself it is so hot it can burn you out. So you need the other tool, the insight that reveals the interbeing of all that is. When that dawns in you then you know that this is not a battle between good people and bad people but that the line between good and evil runs through the landscape of every human heart. And you know that we are so interwoven that even our smallest acts have repercussions that ripple through the web of life, beyond our capacity to discern. But that knowing is kind of cool. It can seem at times a bit abstract. That’s why you need the heat of real passion.” From One Earth Sangha Photo by Daniele Levis Pelusi on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife

It's never too late to look at our lives, to set out on a new path, to begin the difficult and necessary and life-giving work of changing course, of learning how to bring ourselves in a way that deepens our depth, courage, love, kindness, truthfulness and contribution. It's never too late to learn something, to teach something. It's never too late to live - even in the very last moments of our lives. This conversation, marking the 8th anniversary of Turning Towards Life, takes us into an exploration of who we humans can be to one another, especially when we pay attention, when we remember our capacities to make worlds together, and when we commit to listen to one another with kindness, truthfulness, openness and care. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Celebrating Eight Years of Turning Towards Life 05:48 Introducing the Source: Harold Schulweis 11:57 Personal Reflections on Change and Growth 17:47 The Power of Openness and Change 24:08 The Importance of Dialogue and Disagreement 29:52 Creating a World of Connection and Kindness Here’s our source for this week: It’s never too late The last word has not been spoken the last sentence has not been writ the final verdict is not in. It's never too late  to change my mind  my direction to say 'no' to the past  and 'yes' to the future  to offer remorse to ask and give forgiveness. It is never too late  to start all over again  to feel again  to love again  to hope again. It is never too late  to overcome despair  to turn sorrow into resolve  and pain into purpose. It is never too late to alter my world  not by magic incantations  or manipulations of the cards  or deciphering the stars  but by opening myself  to curative forces buried within  to hidden energies the powers in my interior self. In sickness and in dying,  it is never too late. Living, I teach  Dying, I teach how to face pain and fear. Others observe me, children, adults,  students of life and death  learn from my bearing, my posture,  my philosophy. It is never too late -  Some word of mine, some touch, some caress may be remembered  some gesture may play a role beyond the last  movement of my head and hand. Write it on my epitaph  that my loved ones be consoled. It is never too late. Harold Shulweis Photo by Ümit Bulut on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Foundations of Coaching, Feb 9-10 2026, Online Our two day introduction to the deep and wonderful way of working with people that we call 'Integral Development Coaching'. www.wearethirdspace.org/foundations-of-coaching Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife People Mentioned: Rabbi Harold Shulweis David Whyte Rainer Maria Rilke Norman Fisher Mary Oliver Maya Stein Rosemary Whatola-Trommer Hollie Holden Naomi Shihab Nye Rebecca Solnit Leo Tolstoy (author of The Death of Ivan Ilyich) Keywords: never late, starting over, forgiveness practice, teaching presence, continuous becoming, habit remaking, interior forces, curative powers, death teaching, final verdict, life ongoingness, changing direction, opening myself, human power, world making, truthful standing, cynicism rejection, spiritual openness, destination pressure, community presence, disagreement kindness, intentional space, learning together, transformative choice, last breath

A conversation about discovering that the entire world around us—the first star breaking through darkness, rain dancing on rooftops, stooping to pick up an acorn—aren't distractions from life's important questions but invitations further into them. That we are never separate from the world, and that there are many ways in which the world is calling to us even when we feel alone. And that rather than retreating from the world to find the answers to our most urgent questions, perhaps we can soften back into contact with what surrounds us as a way into the answers. This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction to Turning Towards Life 02:25 Exploring Ingrid's Poetry 06:30 On Ordinary Moments 10:07 Connection to the World Around Us 14:34 Receiving from the World, Finding We Are Not Alone 19:24 Discovering our Non-Separateness Here’s our source for this week: Questions for Discerning What is Timeless and True When mist settles thick on the water as far as the eye can see, may you hold yourself in generosity, and ask what do you endlessly dream? When the first star breaks its light through the darkest evening sky, what is the wish that flutters in the temple of your heart? When rain dances with joy on the roof above your head, what do you feel most grateful for, and for what do you give thanks? When the catbird settles on a branch nearby, tips his head back and sings, what sweet urgency pours from your life into the living, breathing day? When you stoop to pick up an acorn that has fallen along your trail, allow yourself to wonder: what seeds do you plant and grow? When the autumn leaf lifts on a swirling current of wind: what journey are you missing? What adventure do you long to begin? When the present insight slips into the vast eternal realm, what do you still remember in the very bones of your soul? When the morning sun wakes you and asks for your finest gift, what do you pull from your infinity to give and give, and open to, and give? Ingrid Goff-Maidoff ingridgoffmaidoff.com Photo by Lucas van Oort on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords: timeless questions, sweet urgency, temple heart, infinity giving, autumn leaf journey, catbird settling, acorn wondering, star breaking light, rain dancing joy, mist settling thick, bones soul memory, morning sun gift, world offering attention, contact receptivity, contracted separation, life calling back, rose smelling presence, ordinary invitations, belonging planet, softening contact, generous participation, separateness fear, social media hysteria, retreat fantasy, bodily contraction, woods walking

'For the sake of what am I doing this?' is the question that animates this week's conversation. For the sake of fitting in? Of having feelings that I want to have? For the sake of serving? Of bringing the unique gifts I have to offer? For the sake of doing the big jobs, the ones that make a difference over the long term - such as pursuing love, justice, peace? Rather than pursuing quick wins that shrink our ambitions, might we find courage to take on impossible jobs and measure our lives not by immediate results but by unwavering dedication to the particular gifts that each of us has to bring? This week’s conversation is hosted, as always, by Lizzie Winn and Justin Wise of Thirdspace. Episode Overview 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 04:14 Introducing Parker Palmer and this week’s Source 08:52 The Concept of Faithfulness vs. Effectiveness 15:42 The Challenge of Complex Issues in Life 22:33 Finding Fulfillment Beyond Short-Term Goals Here’s our source for this week: Faithfulness and Effectiveness Take on big jobs worth doing, jobs like the spread of love, peace, and justice. That means refusing to be seduced by our cultural obsession with being effective as measured by short-term results. … Our heroes take on impossible jobs and stay with them for the long haul because they live by a standard that supersedes effectiveness. The name of that standard is "faithfulness" - faithfulness to your gifts, to the needs of the world, and to offering your gifs to whatever needs are within your reach. The tighter we cling to the norm of effectiveness, the smaller the tasks we'll take on, because they are the only ones that get short-term results. Public education is a tragic example. We no longer care about educating children - a big job that's never done. We care only about getting kids to pass tests with measurable results, whether or not those tests measure what matters. In the process, we're crushing the spirits of a lot of good teachers and vulnerable kids: there are millions of kids in this country who long to be treasured, not measured. Care about being effective, of course. But care even more about being faithful, as countless teachers do - faithful to your calling and to the true needs of those entrusted to your care. You won't get the big jobs done in your lifetime. But if, at the end of the road, you can say, "I was faithful", you can check out with a sense of satisfaction. Parker Palmer, from "On the Brink of Everything", p47-48 Photo by Alexey Demidov on Unsplash --- Join Us Live in 2026 Turning Towards Life Live Season 2, from March 2026 Our Turning Towards Life live programme of community, learning and reflection runs in six month seasons, in person on Zoom once a month. We're very excited about it. A chance to expand beyond the bounds of a podcast into forming a community of learning and practice. You can find out more and join us here: www.turningtowards.life/live ---- About Turning Towards Life Turning Towards Life, a week-by-week conversation inviting us deeply into our lives, is a live 30 minute conversation hosted by Justin Wise and Lizzie Winn of Thirdspace.  Find us on FaceBook to join in the lively conversation on this episode. You can find videos of every episode, and more about the project on the Turning Towards Life website, and you can also watch and listen on Instagram, YouTube, and as a podcast on Apple, Amazon Music and Spotify. Join Our Weekly Mailing: www.turningtowards.life/subscribe Support Us: www.buymeacoffee.com/turningtowardslife Keywords: faithfulness practice, effectiveness obsession, long-term commitment, cultural critique, big jobs worth doing, short-term results, treasured not measured, educational reform, calling dedication, gift recognition, world needs, satisfaction fulfillment, loyalty examination, complex missions, unfinished work, life dedication, cultural metanarratives, social exclusion fear, heart questioning, purpose alignment, decision making clarity, service orientation, love peace justice, parenting faithfulness, recognition limitations, life filling, tribe dedication, spiritual satisfaction, deeper commitment, relationship building, podcast longevity