Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations in Healthcare and Beyond

Audio remastered June 2021 Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/7  Here is LeanBlog Podcast #7, a new discussion with our friend Norman Bodek, President of PCS Press and the author of many books, including Kaikaku: The Power and Magic of Lean. In this Podcast, we discuss Toyota's response to recent quality problems and recalls along with other Lean leadership topics. LeanBlog Podcast #7 Show Notes and Approximate Timeline 1:40 What are Norman's thoughts on Toyota's recalls and their response of adding time back into the product development process to build in quality? 2:08 “When your model is being attacked, it's unnerving. Very often, people are looking for an excuse to not do something.” 2:50 Yes, Norman buys Toyota 2:57 The book 40 Years, 20 Million Ideas: The Toyota Suggestion System 3:50 How Toyota invests in people, their training and development and how “lifetime employment was a brilliant concept” because that investment in people is an investment in the company. 5:45 A few years ago, Norman visited Toyota Georgetown, why was the number of suggestions dropping? Employees had been getting $20 per suggestion, no matter how small and so employees “played the game and played it well.” So, Toyota stopped the program. 7:55 “The greatest respect you can show somebody is asking their opinion and listening to their ideas.” 8:10 Norman suggests that Toyota should have just changed their system to pay $20 for an idea “if it was worth $20.” 8:40 “Lifetime employment” or “lifetime improvement?” 9:10 As employees, do we learn and improve for the sake of “me” and “my career” or for “the company?” Norman says it's “sad” that I don't want to improve for the company's sake. 10:00 Although Toyota Georgetown does not have “lifetime improvement,” they have never laid off a worker. 10:10 Are Toyota “temp” workers treated differently? Do they get a similar sense of commitment for ideas and suggestions? 11:15 How “Quick and Easy Kaizen” focuses on what's good for the worker? How do you make your work more interesting and easier? Norman says, “The result will be better quality, safety, customer service, productivity…” 12:30 Back to Toyota's product development and quality 13:10 Motorola and product development engineers improving the process 14:00 “How can you ask employees to be innovative rather than needing to have everything controlled by management, as we do in America?” 14:55 Norman says, “Management is not trained extensively, as they should be” 16:10 Working every day to improve, as employee, in a highly competitive world 16:30 Sending work to China for cheaper labor to do non-value added work versus eliminating waste? Why? 17:40 What about Toyota describing product development problems as “bonehead mistakes?” Is that not showing “respect for people?” 18:00Toyota tries to take waste development out of the development process without working them too hard. 20:20 Why Norman likes the theme of “respect for people”

Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/6 Remastered June 2021 Here is LeanBlog Podcast #6, the second part of my discussion with Jamie Flinchbaugh, co-author of The Hitchhiker's Guide to Lean. You can find the first part of the podcast here. In this Podcast, we talk about how leadership needs to apply the ideas of waste to reduction to their own jobs and how leaders really “lead” rather than being merely “behind” lean efforts. 0:50 How do you teach people how to see waste? What is the role of leaders in eliminating waste? 1:10 More about the “language of waste” and specific waste terminology, why is that important? 2:10 How leaders can eliminate waste from their own role and your own work 4:20 How can leaders get people to move to action? Does fear get in the way? 4:55 “Be visible” – being visible versus being a “showman” 5:10 “Great leaders ask great questions” but it's also important to make suggestions as a leader, to help drive action 5:30 “The management support myth” — being “behind” lean versus being a leader 6:35 Asking questions versus pointing out things to do 8:30 Doing lean “with” someone versus “for” them Jamie's most recent column in Assembly Magazine can be found here. Click here for an archive of Jamie's columns.

Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/5  Remastered June 2021 Here is LeanBlog Podcast #5, with a new guest: Jamie Flinchbaugh, co-author of The Hitchhiker's Guide to Lean. In this Podcast, we talk about the “language of waste” and how waste reduction is a critical tool in the implementation of lean manufacturing and the Toyota Production System. There will be a second Podcast to follow, where we focus more on the role of leadership in driving waste out of your processes. If you're a regular Lean Blog reader, you should recognize Jamie as a valued contributor to the blog. Click here for a link to some of his blog posts. Prior to starting the Lean Learning Center, Jamie was part of the development, training and implementation of the Chrysler Operating System. Jamie also worked at DTE Energy, parent to Detroit Edison, as a lean thought leader to help transform the operations, leadership and thinking of the utility industry towards a philosophy of lean systems. You can read more about his background here on Jamie's web site.   LeanBlog Podcast #5 Show Notes and Approximate Timeline 1:15 Why does Jamie use the terminology “hatred for waste” in the book? 2:00 We need to not just identify waste, we need to be compelled to fix it, to take action.2:20 Do companies get hung up in the “analysis” phase? 3:10 Waste elimination is a “tool” and should be a daily activity 4:00 Do some companies waste three months by analyzing things, because they're afraid of doing the wrong thing? 4:40 Is there a risk of focusing on waste so much that you ignore your customer needs and value creation? 5:15 Jamie says “waste elimination should be an act unto itself” as opposed to just being the end goal of a different lean activity 5:40 Jamie talks about the value of “waste walks” 6:45 The “language of lean” and the types of waste 9:00 Discussion about “Waste” and “value,” the balance between the two — can you eliminate waste, but become irrelevant to your customer? 11:00 Can insourcing steps of the value stream help add more value in certain cases? 12:30 Most lean efforts are still manufacturing-centric and the amount of value you can provide is limited Jamie's most recent column in Assembly Magazine can be found here. Click here for an archive of Jamie's columns.  

Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/4 Remastered June 2021 This is the second part of my discussion (started in Episode #3) with Dr. Jeff Liker of the University of Michigan and his books, including "The Toyota Way." This time, we focus on "lean healthcare" or the applications of lean in hospital settings, waste elimination, and problem solving. Please visit www.leanblog.org for show notes, links and more information. 1:28 Dr. Liker's comments on lean healthcare at the University of Michigan and their 5-day certificate program 2:03 Dr. Liker visited Toyota's own hospital last year and they are just starting to implement lean and the “Toyota Way” at “Toyota Memorial Hospital“ 2:53 “Hospitals are often a complete mess, lack of organization.” 3:50 “A lot of a hospital is just a huge material flow system… and it's done really badly.” 5:08 Can also look at patient “value streams” 5:15 Can eliminate 80-90% of the waste (waiting) from a patient perspective 5:48 How the American Heart Association used the Toyota Product Development System 6:28 Why doctors are afraid that “standardized work” might stifle their actual work, “it's really about becoming a learning organization” 7:48 How healthcare professionals can be open to principles (lean principles) rather than being told what to do 9:33 Why Toyota has “mechanized the routine tasks” — to free people up for problem solving 10:48 Workarounds and problem solving in healthcare 13:03 How simple, visual tools helped 13:28 What kind of consulting or advising does Dr. Liker do for those who might want to contact him? Keynote speeches, conferences, leadership workshops and vision setting. His firm, Optiprise, does more detailed consulting work. 15:29 The Toyota Product Development System (with Jim Morgan) is a new book that came out a few months back. Currently working on a new book with David Meier (co-author of the Toyota Way Fieldbook), called Toyota Talent, about how Toyota develops their people. It is part of what will be a series of books. The book will come out next year.

Author of "The Toyota Way" Show notes: https://www.leanblog.org/3 Remastered June 2021 Here is the third LeanBlog Podcast, featuring Dr. Jeffrey Liker, Professor of Industrial and Operations Engineerring at the University of Michigan. Dr. Liker is very well known in the lean world and is a leader in studying Toyota's own practices and management approaches. More information about Dr. Liker and his books can be found in the show notes, below. LeanBlog Podcast #3 Show Notes and Approximate Timeline 1:45 What originally got Liker into studying Toyota — product development and supplier interaction. 3:58 Liker: “What do you see when you go on a tour? You see the factories. The see the factory's cleaner, it's better organized, the workers seem to be working hard a very engaged… so what Americans saw was really on the surface, so what they copied was on the surface.” 5:06 Are people working on less surfacy issues now? Liker talks about the move toward “lean enterprise.” 6:08 Back in 2000, Liker was quoted as saying “50% of auto suppliers are talking lean, 2% are actually doing it.” How do you think those numbers have changed today? 7:18 Liker: “What they've done is used individual tools.” 8:02 What about companies who claim to “implement” lean in 13 weeks? 8:33 Liker discusses how Toyota develops leaders in advance of opening a new plant. How long will it take the new San Antonio plant to become a true lean factory? 10:58 Can you pick and choose which of the Toyota Way 14 points that you use? 11:08 Liker discusses mixed feelings about “creating your own system,” good in theory, but the risk is you just pick and choose isolated practices. The goal really is to become a learning organization. 13:18 Liker: “We're not putting in the kanban system to eliminate inventory.” Liker discusses the balance between short-term gains and building a lean learning culture 16:03 Liker uses the phrase “Genchi Genbutsu” (or “go and see”) 16:08 Do you sometimes have to drag senior management out to the shopfloor? 17:22 Liker discusses how finance-driven companies drive metrics that interfere with lean. How has Toyota worked to set up an accounting system that supports the Toyota Production System? 20:28 Are there other Toyota Way Principles that companies struggle with? 22:33 Liker uses the phrase “hansei” (or “reflection”). 24:03 Why Toyota thinks you can't “implement a perfect lean system.”  

Remastered audio June 2021 Show notes https://www.leanblog.org/2   Here is the second LeanBlog Podcast, featuring author and consultant Norman Bodek, President of PCS Press. The first one can be found here and you can visit the main Podcast page, which includes information on how to subscribe via RSS or via Apple Podcasts. LeanBlog Podcast #2 Show Notes and Timeline More on airport near misses here and here 2:55 Respect for people, the key difference between Toyota and American companies who aren't maximizing lean 4:45 Why managers are responsible — not setting up the process properly and not giving power to the people who are in contact with the customer 6:00 Toyota realized that to give people respect, you have to give them power 6:30 In his first trip to Japan in 1981, Norman didn't see people waiting in the factories 6:55 How “jidoka” and the separation of man and machines allowed one person to run seven machines 8:21 Why it's OK to have the machine wait instead of having people wait 8:31 Norman is speaking at the Lean Accounting Conference 9:30 “The machine should be no bigger than five times the size of the part.” 10:45 How do we get managers to take responsibility for the design of the system? 11:55 How Fujio Cho changed the “line stop” by adding time buffers, so the whole factory doesn't shut down — why Taiichi Ohno wouldn't have liked that 12:20 Ohno liked the whole plant to shut down because it forces you to find the root cause 13:32 Why you don't criticize people as a manager, how to bring out creative ideas 14:54 “Toyota was the most ruthless organization in Japan… Ohno was a terror… but from this comes the most humanistic management system.” 15:34 “A Toyota manager is told to ask, not tell.” 16:55 “Blame closes people up like an oyster.” 18:39 Why we should want people to make their own work easier and more interesting 19:25 “If we want to compete with the Toyotas of the world, we have to learn how to bring out the best of our people.” 19:38 “We send work to China and Toyota comes here to make cars.” 19:50 Discussion of Toyota's hiring approach and selectivity 22:10 Our management system is broken… 23:00 How healthcare is better about no layoff pledges along with lean and how that helps

Author & President of PCS Press Remastered June 2021 (the best I could do with a 2006 recording) Show notes: HTTP://www.leanblog.org/1  Here is my first LeanBlog Podcast, featuring author and consultant Norman Bodek, President of PCS Press. I have to give credit for the idea to Norman, as he approached me about doing a series of audio interviews as a follow up to and continuation of our Q&A that I posted here on the blog earlier this year. I'll take credit for turning it into a Podcast, something that I plan on making a regular feature, every month or so. There will be additional conversations with Norman and I also plan on interviewing other lean leaders and innovators. Visit the main page for all episodes and information about how to subscribe. LeanBlog Podcast #1 Show Notes and Timeline: Introduction to the Podcast (until 2:22) The difference between kaizen and kaizen events, early history of bringing the kaizen blitz (“kaikaku”) to America (starting at 3:18) Early development of employee suggestion systems (4:18) Difference between suggestion systems and “cost savings systems” (5:00) How Toyota started their suggestion system of “small, little ideas” (5:26) There is a point where the audio is poor, Norman says at 6:00, “…ideas per employee per year, one per month, one per month implemented idea per employee. So, that represented millions of ideas. In fact, I published a book once…” Norman mentions an early book, 40 Years, 20 Million Ideas: The Toyota Suggestion System, now out of print, but available used through amazon.com, albeit at a rare book price. Then, the audio improves again. How do you “manage 1800 ideas” per month? (6:40) Norman's experiences with Gulfstream and employee suggestions (8:30) How kaizen is not a bureaucratic system (10:40) What are the proper incentives for employee suggestions? (11:40) What are the two pillars of TPS? (13:05) How do you “keep score” with employee suggestions? (14:15) How do you balance between kaizen and standard work? (14:40) What is your role as a supervisor with employee suggestions? (15:40 and 22:30) How has Toyota changed their suggestion system over time? (16:50) Why giving $20 an idea was a problem (18:15) Proof that Toyota sometimes makes mistakes – but improves! (18:50) Focusing on “implementations” as opposed to “suggestions” (21:05) What happens when you criticize a suggestion? (23:00) Here is a blog entry that Norman wrote about the podcast, with additional thoughts: “Mark Graban interviewed me this past week for his first Podcast.  We talk about my discovery of Quick and Easy Kaizen, how it was the heart of the Toyota system – getting all employees involved in continuous improvement.  The puzzle to me is why every company doesn't add this most valuable process to their management lexicon.  We say that “People are our most valuable asset.” but we do very little to develop that asset to its fullest.    China does represent short-term labor savings but in the long term we are giving away our companies to them.   This week I was watching parts of the  Tour de France bicycle race on television and saw one of the leaders on a Giant bike. At one time over fifteen years ago, Schwinn was probably America's leading bicycle company.  They went to Taiwan to manufacture their bikes to take advantage of the low labor cost.  The company in Taiwan was Giant.  Initially, Schwinn wanted to reduce their assembly costs but Giant convinced them to also save money on engineering and every other phase of manufacturing and design.  After ten years or so when the initial contract was over, Giant told Schwinn, “We don't need you anymore.  We know how to make great bikes, you taught us how.”  All we have to do is learn how to market the bikes.  “Shortly, thereafter Schwinn went bankrupt and sold their “name,” to another American company. Unfortunately, we are great in short term thinking.  Toyota recognizes the threat from China but they are building more and more automobiles in America.  If they can do it why can't other American companies do it?  To me, the only difference in Toyota and American manufacturers is that Toyota develops their people and the best way to develop people is from their own creative ideas. Please do listen to the podcast… And give me some feedback, Thank you” Here is an amazon.com link to Norman Bodek's Books. My announcer is my old friend, Steve Sholtes, a musician from Michigan.