Breaking Battlegrounds

This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, Chuck and Sam are joined by friend of the show, Chris Wilson. Later in the program, Maya MacGuineas of the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget calls in to talk about Bidenomics and our growing national debt.-Prior to starting WPA Intelligence in 2004, Chris Wilson was Global Director of Research for Weber Shandwick International, the world’s largest public relations firm at the time.In 2021 Chris was named Pollster of the Year by the American Association of Political Consultants for his work directing survey research and predictive analytics on the Glenn Youngkin for Governor of Virginia campaign. In 2019 he was named Technology Leader of the year by Campaigns & Elections magazine.In 2016, as the Director of Research, Analytics and Digital Strategy for the Cruz for President campaign, Chris is credited for playing a key role in Cruz’s triumph in Iowa and helping the Texas Senator finish with the most delegates earned by a 2nd place finisher since Ronald Reagan in 1976. Wilson and WPAi work with organizations like the Club for Growth, Freedom Works, Family Research Council, the Republican National Committee, the National Republican Senatorial Committee and the National Republican Congressional Committee providing data and polling.WPAi’s data management platform, Bonfire, has become the dominant desktop as a service tool for conservative candidates and organizations from US Senate down to school board. Bonfire has leveled the playing field with the progressive left when it comes to the important use of predictive analytics by those on the right.Perhaps most importantly, for six consecutive cycles, WPAi clients have outperformed the partisan average win ratio in both their primary and general election contests by double digits.An Oklahoma native, Chris is a graduate of University of Oklahoma and remains an avid Sooner fan. In the rare instances that Chris isn’t working, he enjoys watching OU and Cornell College, where his son Denver is the starting quarterback, football, spending time with his five children, reading, and racking up impressive amounts of frequent flyer miles.Chris is a regular political analyst on Fox News.-Maya MacGuineas is the president of the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Her areas of expertise include budget, tax, and economic policy. As a leading budget expert and a political independent, she has worked closely with members of both parties and serves as a trusted resource on Capitol Hill. MacGuineas testifies regularly before Congress and has published broadly, including regularly in The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Financial Times, The Atlantic, and numerous other outlets. She also appears regularly as a commentator on television.MacGuineas oversees a number of the Committee’s projects including the grassroots coalition Fix the Debt; the Committee’s Fiscal Institute; and FixUS, a project seeking to better understand the root causes of our nation’s growing divisions and deteriorating political system, and to work with others to bring attention to these issues and the need to fix them. Her most recent area of focus is on the future of the economy, technology, and capitalism.Previously, MacGuineas worked at the Brookings Institution and on Wall Street, and in the spring of 2009 she did a stint on The Washington Post editorial board, covering economic and fiscal policy. MacGuineas serves on a number of boards and is a native Washingtonian.-Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds-TranscriptionSam Stone: [00:00:11] Welcome to another episode of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Our first guest up today, Chris Wilson, founder and CEO of WPA Intelligence. Prior to starting WPA in 2004, Chris was global director of research for Weber Shandwick International, the world's largest public relations firm. At the time, in 2021, he was named Pollster of the Year by the American Association of Political Consultants for his work directing, survey, research and predictive analysis. Analytics. Can't speak this morning on the Glenn Youngkin for Governor of Virginia campaign. In 2019, he was named Technology Leader of the Year by campaigns and elections. Awfully impressive resume. Chris, thank you again for joining us and welcome back to the program.Chris Wilson: [00:00:55] Well, thanks. I made it all up and sent it to you. You know, that's actually real. So wannabes out there, that's okay. That's okay. It's 2023. You can do whatever you want. Now, this is radio.Sam Stone: [00:01:01] We're good with fluff. So.Chris Wilson: [00:01:03] Exactly. Before we get to before we get talking some politics, tell us a little bit. Your son's playing at University of Oklahoma and playing quarterback, right? Well, no, they actually moved him to tight end. So really appreciate you asking. Yeah, I actually played quarterback his whole life. I was recruited out of high school to a small college in Iowa as a quarterback, but decided he wanted to come home. And it was a long story, actually. I ran into former Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops at a fundraiser for Kevin Stitt, who's a client of mine, the governor of Oklahoma. And they got to talking. And one thing led to another. You know, Stoops is a walk on wide receiver. Stoops, the son, is a walk on wide receiver at Oklahoma. And he was they were talking about that. And so. Denver yeah, he moved back and and walked on in the in the spring and you got to play about probably two thirds of the snaps in the spring game and we'll see. I have high hopes for him. The kid works his tail off and he's really a proud dad.Sam Stone: [00:01:56] Quarterback move into any kind of receiver position You just up your chance to get drafted by Bill Belichick. That's right. That's all there is to it.Chris Wilson: [00:02:02] That's right yeah that's Yeah. Six three about £210 tight end. You can get out there and rumble a little bit. Yeah. There you go. Um.Chuck Warren: [00:02:10] What a wonderful experience. I know you're a big University of Oklahoma fan, so that's probably extra pleasure for you seeing your boy out there.Chris Wilson: [00:02:16] Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's very cool. I'm pretty excited.Chuck Warren: [00:02:18] That's very cool.Chris Wilson: [00:02:19] And, you know, they'll be out playing at BYU this year.Chuck Warren: [00:02:20] That's right. We're going to see you out there for dinner. Looking forward to it. You'll you'll enjoy the Provo experience. All right. We're going to play a clip real quick. We'll click here real quick here. We'll click on Kamala Harris's word salad yesterday about culture. Jeremy, go ahead.Kamala Harris: [00:02:33] Well, I think culture is it is a reflection of our moment and our time. Right. And and and present culture is the way we express how we're feeling about the moment. And and we should always find times to express how we feel about the moment. That is a reflection of joy because, you know, it comes in the morning. We have we have to find ways to also express the way we feel about the moment in terms of just having language and a connection to how people are experiencing life. And I think about it in that way, too.Chuck Warren: [00:03:14] So Kamala reminds me a lot of your either Sam in elementary school asked to give a book report in front of the class, and we had not read the book. I mean, that's basically what she talks like, right? It's just many words as possible. So my question for you is, and you've done so much polling for so many years, does the vice presidency even matter anymore in regarding how we view the presidency? I mean, because who no one takes her serious. I mean, polling shows that.Sam Stone: [00:03:41] Kamala Harris brought to you by White Claw. Yeah, yeah.Chris Wilson: [00:03:44] Yeah. It's a word salad against word. Salad is a bad name. And she doesn't she clearly has no idea what she's talking about. And anytime she starts ripping on time or moments, you know, it's going to get good fast. Right. And it's also it's it's cringe worthy in the sense that even if you disagree with her and are are sort of watching sitting back going, okay this is now people are going to realize who she is. You're also thinking how embarrassing for the United States of America that this woman is in the second highest office. I guess it's arguable, but one of the highest offices in the land. And she can't deliver a simple sentence without a without embarrassing herself. And then the in the morning and then she does that cackle thing. It's really embarrassing and it's embarrassing for the administration. And somebody's got to just cut her off. They need to travel around like one of those big hooks that they used to have on game shows back in the 50s and 60s and just kind of pull her off stage before she goes so far that the dollar starts losing value.Chuck Warren: [00:04:47] But so my question. Yeah, I mean, so does she prove that who we So you're working for the superPAC for Ron DeSantis, correct? I am. That's correct. So you've you've I'm sure this is not the primary object of your research, but I'm sure you've thought about who's the best fix for him. Right. Do you think unless you get a real popular governor in a battleground state who actually has a. Political organization. Do they really matter at all?Chris Wilson: [00:05:14] Well, you kind of you kind of answered the question with your preamble to the question is, yes, it can matter a lot. Did it matter for Joe Biden? No, because it was an affirmative action pick, sort of like his Supreme Court pick was. He made it very clear that he was looking for an African-American woman and he just wanted somebody to fill that role. And so does it matter? Let's go back a step, though, is remember, whenever Joe Biden was rolling very damaged into South Carolina and he got the endorsement of a very important member of Congress by committing to that member of Congress that he would appoint a black woman as BP and or as to the Supreme Court. And things turned around for him there, because that vote constituency matters in the Democratic primary in South Carolina. So he went from someone who was in danger, grave danger of coming in distant in the primaries, as he had in Iowa and New Hampshire, to moving back into the frontrunner status. So it mattered to him in the primary. And did it matter in the general for him? No, it didn't. But I think you could argue that you can look at past picks that did have a strong impact. And I think about Lloyd Bentsen, even though he lost, but for Michael Dukakis had a big impact for him in 88, probably made a pretty significant difference. I think Al Gore had a big impact for Bill Clinton. He was able to deliver Tennessee. It's the last time, you know, Tennessee went for a Democrat.Sam Stone: [00:06:43] And and there are certainly been picks that that had impact. Kamala, though, Chris, I have to ask, I mean, I don't remember her being this incoherent previously. And it's not age like Joe Biden. So what the heck is going on? Or did we all just miss it? And she actually was this this absolutely this big a mess?Chris Wilson: [00:07:07] Well, I don't think many people paid attention to her as a senator from California or an attorney general from California. And the good thing about being a prosecutor is you're one. You don't really do much prosecuting in those roles. You have people who do it for you to your lines are pretty scripted before you walk out there. And when she's on script, she's not bad. I mean, she can deliver a good speech, but it's just whenever she starts riffing and I think she's developed a little bit too much confidence in her ability to do so. And so that's how you end up with this sort of common the sort of ongoing, embarrassing moments that you saw. I think it was yesterday when she gave the cringe speech.Sam Stone: [00:07:41] How does someone not pull her aside on her staff and be like, this is terrible, you need to fix this?Chris Wilson: [00:07:48] Well, have you read much about the situation with their staff? I mean, every time they do a camera angle, they all are just sitting there staring at you want to blink if they need help. And it's I feel like there is there's probably not anyone who can deal with her in that way. That's on her staff. She just seems to be one of those horrible bosses that just runs through people on an ongoing basis. And it's a it's an unfortunate story. And, you know, it's I often joke around that being a Democrat press secretary has got to be the easiest job on the planet. And this is certainly a representation of that because you think through what if we had if you were working for someone like that, Chuck, and you're doing political campaigns on a major level, or if I was today, there's no way you could survive that kind of situation. So you have one misstep word or, you know, you think back to whenever. Whenever Dan Quayle put an extra two E on potato because that was on the card in front of him. And it was a story that went on for weeks, if not months. And she's able to just roll right through this stuff as if it's we're being unfair or overly critical by by analyzing the fact that she can't put together a simple sentence about what culture is or what time is or what moments are.Chuck Warren: [00:08:58] All right. Let's go. Let's talk. Let's talk presidency. What issues do you feel are the winning issues for whoever the Republican candidate will be to defeat Joe Biden?Chris Wilson: [00:09:12] I think that starts and almost ends with the economy. You've got to understand that, that Americans are hurting. The price of everything has gone up substantially under Joe Biden, that the price is almost cost prohibitive for people to be able to commute to work on an ongoing basis. And that's by design, frankly, by the Biden administration. And so those are the those are the contrasts that have to be drawn and that and they're important. It's really just the overall significance, the overall ability of America to continue to succeed is is incumbent is dependent on that. And so I'd say that's number one. And if you were to go to a second point, I think there is a little bit of building, not a little bit, but there's a lot of rebuilding America's stature in the world after the withdrawal in Afghanistan, the way China has acted toward us, the way that Russia has acted toward us, there is just a complete dismissal of the United States as a foreign power at this point. I think that's an that is an important aspect, someone who can reclaim that. And I think there is another important aspect is just the overall important issue is the ability of parents to raise their own children. It is a a stunning development the way that Democrats have tried to get between parents and their kids. And I'll tell you, it's one of the reasons why you mentioned at the beginning that I worked for Glenn Youngkin. It's one of the reasons why Glenn Youngkin beat Terry McAuliffe, because Terry McAuliffe said made the famous gaffe that he didn't want parents telling teachers what they should teach their kids.Chris Wilson: [00:10:53] And moms and dads in Virginia rose up and said, no, I disagree with that. And I really think that and to be clear, I'm on the super PAC side of the partisan super PAC side. So let me compliment the campaign. They put out a video yesterday for moms for DeSantis, which Casey DeSantis talked about the role that Governor DeSantis has played in the state of Florida of protecting the rights of parents to raise their kids in the way they want to and to stop any woke teachers or woke systems from being able to intervene in the right of a parent to make decisions for their children or their children's education, their children's, the way their children are raised, whether or not their children are able to go and mutilate themselves with a doctor or have themselves mutilated by a doctor. It's just the overall the decisions that or the process that's going on right now. Those of us who have kids have kids. And, you know, I have five that the attempt of the left to get between a parent and their children and inject themselves into everything from the education to the raising to even the mutilation of that child is stunning to me that they believe that that is okay. And so I think that is also going to become it's a major issue that's going to come to light, particularly if Governor DeSantis is the nominee because of what he's been able to do to protect the parents rights in Florida. And I think that is could be the difference between a Republican winning and a losing right again, like we did in 2000.Chuck Warren: [00:12:28] Great. Well, we're going to take a quick break. We're with Chris Wilson. You can find him on Twitter at Wilson, WPA. You can also find him on Instagram at Wilson, WPA. Follow Chris. He has great insights. You'll stay up to date on what's going on on country. This is Chuck Warren Sam Stone at breaking battlegrounds, vote. We'll be right back.Sam Stone: [00:13:05] Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Folks, it's been another crazy week on the stock market. And if you need a opportunity to make a very high fixed rate of return, if you're looking for a fantastic return, that's not coupled to the stock market where you'll know what each monthly statement will look like with no surprises. You need to check out our friends at invest y Refy.com invest y refy is connecting student loan borrowers to to investors and they are just doing great for people on both sides. It's a fantastic opportunity. We highly encourage you to check it out. Go to their website at invest y refy.com or give them a call at 88yrefy 24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you. All right. Continuing on with Chris Wilson of WPA Intelligence. Chris, you are working in the primaries right now. One of the things I think there's obviously a lot of noise with Trump and DeSantis and some of the other candidates out there. But in terms of the issues, what issues should Republican voters be focusing on or Republican candidates be focusing on first to win the primary, but second, and more importantly, set themselves up to win the general election?Chris Wilson: [00:14:19] You know, I think from an issue standpoint, kind of what we covered in the last segment is, is what matters. I mean, all of those issues matter for Republican primary voters to the economy, parents right to raise their own children, a strong education, things like that. But I'll tell you what, if I were advising candidates directly, and particularly if I was advising this kind of gets into you move down from the presidential campaign because I still work with and WPA intelligence, we work with dozens, sometimes even hundreds of candidates around the country. And one of the things I can tell you I hear from them to a person is a concern about who is at the top of the ticket in 2024. And I'll tell you, this is not to nerd out too much on you guys, but there have been a lot of academic research that's been done about the impact that Donald Trump has had since he emerged on the political scene on elections and everything. Be careful what you wish for. Impact of President Trump endorsed in the midterms by Ballard and others, Comparing the impact of Joe Biden on popular attitudes to the parties. By Jacobson. 22 elections by also by Jacobson. But the most recent one, which is really interesting one by experimental evidence on public perceptions of Trump endorsements by Barron, McLaughlin and others all quantify the impact that Trump has had going back to 2018 on close elections. And the reason why this matters is if Democrats take a majority in the Senate, they're going to stack the Supreme Court. They're going to get rid of the filibuster. They're going to make D.C. and Puerto Rico states these aren't these aren't like pie in the sky speculations. These are things they say they want to do, they would do today if it wasn't.Sam Stone: [00:16:00] They've been very clear they want to do everything you just said.Chris Wilson: [00:16:04] So the study I just mentioned by Barron McLaughlin and Bloom on experimental evidence on public perception of Trump endorsements is that when Trump gets involved in a race, it actually costs that candidate seven points. It goes a high from nine to a low of five in a competitive general election. So I want you to think back to last cycle. You know, obviously in Utah, Mike Lee got into a close race. He was able to pull it out at the end, but there were some close races we didn't pull out in Arizona and Georgia and Pennsylvania. We almost I mean, think about how far behind Governor DeWine, JD Vance ran in Ohio. All of those are states are races where Trump had an impact. And so you can quantify that number at 79%. So we as Republicans, I think, should really care about what happens if we have somebody at the top of the ticket that takes 7 to 9 points off of every single candidate who's running in a competitive race. That's a and you can real quickly run down the numbers and think about how many House and Senate seats we would ultimately lose.Sam Stone: [00:17:03] Yeah, I mean, that's a bloodbath that that you're describing. And one of the things, Chris, that I don't think I haven't really seen polling that quantifies this more so just dealing with anecdotal evidence from independent voters or soft voters, whatever you want to call them, they are completely hardened against Trump, rightly or wrongly. And this is one of the things I tell a lot of Trump supporters.Chris Wilson: [00:17:29] And moving more against him, by the way.Sam Stone: [00:17:31] Yeah. And moving more against him.Chris Wilson: [00:17:32] Surveys, they continue to move more against him. Yes.Sam Stone: [00:17:35] And so I mean, for him to if he's going to be at the top of the ticket, he and his team have to address that. There's no evidence they're doing so. I mean, they're doubling and tripling down on all the things that are driving that cohort away.Chris Wilson: [00:17:48] No, I agree. And it's it is a real problem because there is nothing that's been done since 2020 to change the face of the election. If you believe that that weird things went on in Georgia and Arizona last time or there's there's nothing that's being done by their campaign to guard against that. And I'll tell you, there are weird things that happen in elections, no question about it. We had as many people, as many lawyers in Virginia at the Youngkin headquarters as we did staffers, because we wanted to guard against that. And that's how you have to do it in any close election. It's that has been the case since I've been involved in politics, which is over 20 years. And so you've got to guard against that. You've got to understand the rules and play against it. You know, I grew up playing basketball and I was there when the three point line came out. My coach hated the three point line. I said, Well, we still have to use it. Well, the same thing is true with with with ballot harvesting. I may hate that as a rule, but I can't leave that to the Democrats to do all by themselves. And so we will compete at that level and we have to be able to compete at that level. And I think that's the challenges that exist is if Donald Trump is the nominee, Republicans lose in 24 and they probably are 24 and they probably lose the House and the Senate by by historical numbers. And it puts us in a situation where America in 2025 and 26 is a very different place than we live in today. I don't mean to end on a down down note, but since you asked, I think that is the most important thing that every voter should take into account when they cast their ballot for in any primary in 2024.Sam Stone: [00:19:10] And Chuck, if the things that Chris just said listed at the start of this segment come true, in other words, Court-packing, Puerto Rico, DC. There's no recovery for Republicans.Chuck Warren: [00:19:21] No, that's right. No, no, there is not. Chris, what is something we've talked about these main issues, the economy. You know, we have we now have out today that they did a poll of 2500 US adults and they said they need to earn $233,000 a year to feel financially secure. Then you have America's role in the world. And I think one big thing about that's always been is our role as the preeminent power have made us feel safe. But I also think Americans like being number one. I mean, just look at Olympic sports, right? When we win. Right. And then we have the parents, you know, being able to, you know, decide what their children do. What are other issues with your crystal ball and research that you think lawmakers need to start paying more attention to? That can be that could really turn quickly against conservatives.Chris Wilson: [00:20:12] Well, another one that I think is has really come to the top is, is the wokeness of corporations. And I think the the the sort of forcing their values on Americans. And we've seen a lot of backfire on that. We've certainly seen a backfire with target Bud Light and it's even Ben and Jerry's over the weekend where they said you know every every company built on a tribe should give that land back. Everyone should give it a try. And then it turns out their their corporate headquarters on the tribe, they've lost $2.5 billion in corporate value since that happened. So because from people from people selling the stock and and the collapse of the company. So I think those are other aspects of it that where you look at someone who has been willing to take on woke the woke corporate left and stand up to them and take away things like tax incentives they asked for, which really I would argue that tax incentives are a conservative way of approaching work on corporations from a from a local government standpoint. And so I think those are aspects that matter, too. And it's an important thing for us to be paying attention to.Chuck Warren: [00:21:18] Well, Chris, we sure appreciate you joining us today and wish you the best of luck this cycle. We hope to have you on again before the Christmas season. Folks, please follow Chris Wilson at Wilson WP at Twitter, same thing on Instagram. Wilson. Wp There you can learn you can follow University of Oklahoma football quite well and you can also you can also you can also stay in touch with the research that's going on in our country. Chris, we sure appreciate your time and we hope you have a fantastic weekend, my friend.Chris Wilson: [00:21:46] Thank you. Good to talk to you.Chuck Warren: [00:21:47] Thanks. Bye bye. This is breaking battlegrounds. You can follow us at breaking battlegrounds. Vote and listen to us anywhere you get your podcasts. We'll be right back.Sam Stone: [00:22:05] Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone, continuing on with our fantastic guests for today, we have Maya MacGuineas, president of the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. Boy, is that something we have needed for a long time. She is an expert in budget, tax and economic policy and has worked closely with members of both parties and serves as a trusted source on Capitol Hill. Maya, thank you and for joining us and welcome to the program.Maya MacGuineas: [00:22:32] Yeah, happy to join.Chuck Warren: [00:22:34] So both the left and right seem to be like Keystone cops on the national debt and budget deficit. They both think this is the one way or highway and that's the only way that works. So let's take, for example, let's start first with the belief that you can just tax your way out of this by taxing everybody who has money in the country. Is that possible?Maya MacGuineas: [00:22:51] There's not a chance. This is a problem that, quite frankly, you're going to have to put everything on the table in order to get where we need to fiscally. But the notion that you can just do this by raising revenues and you'll hear people who make that case saying, listen, what are the lowest tax countries in the world? We can certainly have higher taxes. True. We can have higher taxes. True. We're going to have to have higher taxes. But absolutely not the case that you can fix this problem entirely. On the revenue side of the budget, the biggest growth in our budget imbalances comes from growing health care costs, growing retirement costs, most of those fueled by the aging of the population and growing interest costs. Because we've borrowed so much interest payments on the debt are the fastest growing part of the budget. So no matter how much you bring your revenues up, the fact that spending is still going to be going, growing faster than your economy means it won't be able to keep pace. And you're going to have to bring some of those spending levels back under control.Chuck Warren: [00:23:50] All right. So now let's go to the argument the right likes to make. We can just cut all these programs and we can do this all in budget. Everything, balance it in ten years. Is that reality? Yeah.Maya MacGuineas: [00:24:01] That also not true and not even close. One of the things during the debt ceiling fight that I was really worried about was that people who thought you could do this on the spending side and wanted to be aggressive and are fiscally focused, which I am, and I share those beliefs. But I was worried they would overshoot and that they would say we have to balance the in ten years and do so by spending cuts. We're not going to be able to come anywhere close to balancing the budget in ten years. To do so would take saving about $16 trillion over that ten year period. The last time we saved $16 trillion was easily never, not not even close. Right. So this is not even in the realm of the possible. Now, a fiscal metric that I think is aggressive but doable would be what if we just stabilized our debt so that it's not growing faster? That doesn't grow up to above where it is right now, which is almost 100% of GDP, just doing that over ten years so that we keep it at the same level of debt to GDP that would require $8 trillion in savings. That is an aggressive amount. It is doable, but it is not doable. On just the spending cuts side of the budget. There's no way that no matter how much you pull back these programs, no realistic way that you could cut spending enough to save $8 trillion. The trajectory we're mythbusting here, which is good because everybody's out there making promises we don't make.Chuck Warren: [00:25:27] I mean, I'm convinced, you know, with our show, we have people I mean, we're conservative, but I don't think people understand math anymore. That's my concern. I mean, this is this is yellow pad, pencil in hand, math. And no one wants to seem to admit it. And we all created this problem. So we're all going to have to work together to get out of the problem.Maya MacGuineas: [00:25:48] Boy, do I agree with that one. And let me talk about that fuzzy math, because basically what you have on both sides of the aisle now is kind of made up fairy tale economics. So on the Republican side, you'll hear time and time again we're going to cut taxes. It's going to generate so much growth, it's going to pay for itself. Just nowhere close to reality. If you cut taxes, it is going to help grow the economy and it will do so so that it generates about $0.20 for every dollar you spend on tax cuts. So you still have to offset the bulk of those tax cuts by cutting spending or raising other taxes. And then on the left, you hear things like this policy is so important, we shouldn't have to pay for it, just not true. Like if something's important, the whole point of budgeting is you should pay for it. And if it's not important, you shouldn't do it. But the other thing that we've been hearing is people for the past year are saying, don't worry, we can just print more money. That is so fundamentally wrong. And we've seen that it's wrong because we've just had a huge bout and are still in the midst of of high inflation kicked off because we we put too much money in the economy. Borrowing for Covid was the right thing to do. But the last bill that we did put way too much money in the economy and created this inflationary problem that has only gotten worse with with additional factors exacerbating it. So there's a lot of made up economics out there. There's a lot of made up mathematics. This basically comes down to the basic issue of budgets and trade offs. We shouldn't be borrowing as much money as we are, and I can talk about that more.Sam Stone: [00:27:17] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Maya, we're going to come back with more from Maya macGuineas here in just a minute, folks. Continuing on. She is the president of the Bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. And frankly, Maya, we really appreciate having you on this program. We love having these kind of honest discussions that I don't think are out there enough. And we're going to be continuing on with that. More in just a moment. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone and Chuck Warren. Folks, are you concerned with stock market volatility? What if you could invest in a portfolio with a high fixed rate of return that's not correlated to the stock market or portfolio? Well, you know what each monthly statement would look like, but no surprises. You can turn your monthly income on or off, compound it, whatever you choose. There's no loss of principle. If you need your money back at any time, your interest is compounded daily, you're paid monthly and there are no fees. The secure collateralized portfolio that delivers a high fixed interest rate and by investing, you can do well for yourself by doing good for others. So check out our friends at Invest by Refy.com. That's invest the letter Y, then refy.com or give them a call at 88 y refy 24 and see how you can earn up to a 10.25% fixed rate of return.Chuck Warren: [00:28:50] Maya So I think one thing that gets lost when we talk budgets and deficits and debt is it becomes sort of an Excel spreadsheet. It's numbers and I think the numbers seem like monopoly numbers to a lot of people, right? So, for example, we want to talk here about, look, we need to have entitlement reform. There's no if butts ands it's, you know, two thirds of our budget Congress doesn't even control. It's just mandatory. And Sam and myself and you, we have loved ones who need Social Security. They're in it or they're expecting it real soon. Right. But I think one thing that doesn't get talked about enough is I'm a father. You have children based on Wikipedia. And Wikipedia never lies. Yeah. How does this when you look at these things, does that concern you for their future? What you have so much debt where you're paying interest more, you're paying spending more than money in the federal budget on interest debts than you are things that matter that it will create inflation, higher interest rates. Does this concern you as a mother?Maya MacGuineas: [00:29:48] Yeah. I mean, it's right. It's both systemic and personal, this issue. And so first, you know, we are actually spending this year more on interest payments to finance the debt of the fast pass than the entire federal budget spends on programs for children. That's how backwards this is. But absolutely, I mean, there are many reasons that I worry about the effects of the national debt. They're economic. They're leaving us vulnerable for future emergencies, their foreign policy and national security, where we're increasingly vulnerable and dependent on other countries. But one of the bottom line issues here is we are spending a lot of money because we want to we like those things and we are refusing to pay for it because none of us like paying taxes. And so the other option is we are then saying we will borrow this money and we will push those bills onto the future, onto our kids. And I will say, my kids refuse to listen to my deficit speeches at the dinner table. So shame on them for not caring. But no, but it is. And it's hard to get younger people to care about it because they think, as we all did when we were in our teens and 20s you're like, the world is great. Everything's going to be fine. I don't need to worry about future. But the truth and it's discouraging truth right now is we are leaving a country and frankly, a world that is much riskier, much more difficult to navigate, much more filled with potential risk to the next generation than we've ever seen before. And this goes well beyond the debt. It goes to national security, to the effects of technology, to all sorts of things that they need a strong budget to be able to respond to. And instead, we are giving them tens of trillions of dollars in debt that they owe just because we were unwilling to pay for these things ourselves, even though we are the beneficiaries of them.Sam Stone: [00:31:32] Yeah, one of the things that I find interesting, Maya, is that the the media and academia or whatever has sold kids on the idea that we are facing an existential crisis, potentially the death of the planet within 20 years from environmental issues. That's not particularly realistic. But we are facing a financial cliff that would affect them far, far more than anything the environment ever will in their lifetimes coming up very soon.Maya MacGuineas: [00:31:59] Well, I think it's interesting. I actually think the environment and the fiscal challenges have something in common, which is there's no immediate moment where it turns into the problem if you default. That happened on a certain day. If there's a government shutdown, that happens on a certain day. But when it comes to these issues, they slowly compound if we don't do anything about them. But there's no one moment where you say we can't return. And so you have members of Congress constantly saying we can punt this off until another day. But there should be no disagreement on the severity of having the amount of debt we have. We're not only are we spending more on interest than we are kids today, five years from now, we'll be spending more on interest payments than we are on national defense. This is an increasingly risky world. And so I don't know how you get kids to take this issue on and make it their own. Again, I think there's this eternal optimism that comes with youth. That means people can't believe it's really that big a problem. And numbers like trillion are so hard to follow. It's very difficult to personalize this. And lastly, the solutions, they're not fun. Here's the truth. We have to raise taxes, cut spending, fix our entitlement programs. Nobody thinks that's going to be fun, but you have to do that for the sustainability of our economic health. And so it's hard to get people to rally and march in the streets calling for fiscal reforms. But really, it's one of the most important things that we could do that also affects all the other issues that people do worry about.Sam Stone: [00:33:22] My I don't know if you saw the piece that was in the Hill on the fourth by Andrew Hale said China is in default on $1 trillion in debt to US bondholders. Will the US force repayment? This is debt that was created by the previous government prior to the Maoist takeover. But in international norms that doesn't erase the debt. China is the only country on earth not paying that. He actually suggested. Simply, we essentially nationalize that debt and wipe it off our books, take, you know, balance it against $1 trillion in in our treasuries that China holds, which would free up $95 Billion a month in interest payments. Is something like that practical or possible? And how much would that trillion dollars actually make a difference to our overall financial situation?Maya MacGuineas: [00:34:10] Yeah, I saw that.Maya MacGuineas: [00:34:11] Piece and I did think that was interesting. And I definitely think that a lot of this is interconnected with the tensions that we have with China and the fact that we are dependent on them, that they own almost $1 trillion of our treasuries. But I don't think unilaterally sort of nationalizing that debt or declaring that we're not going to repay what we owe China would be good because markets are beyond just the bilateral agreements. If we were to do that with China, there would be growing concerns through other countries, and I think that would hasten the effort that there already is to move away from the dollar as a reserve currency. And that is something that benefits us tremendously. So I think it's actually very important that the US not make changes that risk its status right now, something that we benefit from of being the safe haven and the reserve currency. I think what we really have to focus on is balancing our own books, spending only as much as we're willing to pay in taxes, borrowing only when there's economic emergencies and a real reason to do so. And we can't find any shortcuts around those those hard truths.Chuck Warren: [00:35:12] So let's talk entitlements for a minute, a little more detail on it. So like we said, there are people who are on Social Security now. We'll just use Social Security example, but there's Medicare, too, and you've got people who are close to retirement age. What do you think is the type of retirement reform we really should be talking about without affecting those who really count on this right now for day to day living?Maya MacGuineas: [00:35:33] Yeah, and I think that's the right question because I think we need to fix these programs in a way that strengthens and preserves them for the people who most need them, but understands that both of them are headed towards insolvency. Social Security and just over a decade, if we do nothing, there will be across the board 23% benefit cuts. And yet you have politicians of all stripes making promises not to touch Social Security or Medicare. Medicare also will have across the board 10% provider cuts if we don't make changes. So these folks are promising you not to touch your entitlements, are promising you that you will have provider and benefit cuts that will affect everybody. Instead, what we should be doing is. This isn't thought out. Policy solutions and Social Security. This is about 4 or 5 options. You can raise payroll taxes or the payroll tax cap. You can raise the retirement age, which makes sense because we're living longer. And you could start it now, but have it kick in very, very gradually over time for people under 55, 50, whatever. You can slow the growth of benefits. And I would do that on the high end, not across the board. And you can fix the way we calculate inflation, which overstates it right now. There are a lot of fixes we could put in for Social Security, but the longer we wait and we've already waited too long, the more difficult they will be.Sam Stone: [00:36:44] Maya.Maya MacGuineas: [00:36:45] Oh.Sam Stone: [00:36:46] I'm sorry. You talked about slowing benefits on the high end of the scale. This is something that's come up a lot on both sides is means testing for Social Security. I've fought this battle with Republicans for years and just said, look, we're just going to have to do this. This is going to come. There's one objection coming from the right. There's another from the left. It's from the left, though I don't understand their objection because it seems like that falls in line with everything else that they talk about.Chuck Warren: [00:37:13] Make the rich pay their fair share.Sam Stone: [00:37:14] Tax the rich. Why do we need to be, from their perspective, giving wealthy people this benefit rather than means testing it and directing it at the people that need it?Maya MacGuineas: [00:37:25] It's just a great question because it's honestly a policy I have never understood. If you support progressive policies on the tax side, you should also support progressive policies on the spending side. And right now we have actually very we have regressive Social Security benefits where the well-off, their benefits are more reflecting that they paid in more in taxes. And so the concern is, oh, if you if you reduce the benefits for rich people in Social Security, there won't be a strong constituency of support. They won't fight to save Social Security. That's just not true. The biggest growth we've seen in government benefits in past years have been like an Eitc and Medicaid programs that were directed towards the poor. So there are support. There is support for smart programs that help people who need them the most. And when I go out and I talk to people in town halls, they always say means test my benefit. If I don't need it, no problem. I just want it there if I do. So when I hear Democrats saying you can't touch benefits for rich people or having someone like Bernie Sanders actually suggesting increasing benefits for everybody, including rich people, it means it's more money getting spent on those who don't need it and less money for things that you might really worry about, like education, investment in children or at risk youth, things like that. So I think it's an internally very inconsistent argument. And I think means testing is one of the areas that makes the most sense given the situation we're in with Social Security and Medicare.Chuck Warren: [00:38:48] Well, I think I think the left's argument on this is based upon union loyalties, because they get good pensions and they don't want to see it cut for their members. But that's that's a red meat conversation for another day. All right. So let's talk about this. What do you think? I think it's really important that the US stay the economic superpower in the world. We have certain benefits that most countries do not have, nor will they ever have. My question for you is, what do you think we need to do realistically to make sure we keep and maintain that position for the next couple of decades?Maya MacGuineas: [00:39:18] I think there's a few things. One, we need to start paying for all the policies that we do instead of borrowing to we need to switch our budget priorities. Right now, about 85% of our budget is consumption. 15% is investment. We need to turn that on its head. We need to be making investments in human capital, basic R&D. We just put a lot of money into infrastructure. So I think that that should be fine for a while and we need to reduce overall spending so that more of that money can be in the private sector and making private sector investments. And finally, we need to switch our spending priorities, which are all focused on the old into investments in the next generation, because just the same reason it's damaging to borrowed so much and pushed that into the future and to kids not failing to invest in them, but giving very comfortable benefits to my father who doesn't necessarily need them. Those priorities do not keep us strong as an economic superpower. We also want to deregulate and a lot of ways and smart trade policy, all of those things which are going to recognize the importance of our being an economic superpower in this highly integrated global economy.Sam Stone: [00:40:22] You know, one of the discussions, Maya, that never comes up that I mean, and this may be a little bit outside your specific area of expertise is the cost of government programs has gone up dramatically, far more than the delivery of services from those programs. You're seeing a huge bureaucratic bloat. And it would seem at some point like one part or the other needs to start getting serious about leaning down government to actually deliver the dollars where they're intended to go.Maya MacGuineas: [00:40:51] 100%. 100%. If you talk to anybody in agencies right now, they are feeling the bloat. There's been so much money that has been a big run up in funding agencies in the past years, that there are situations where people are traveling because they don't know what to do with their budgets. There are people who are absolutely underworked and it's well known and that undermines the morale in place. So, listen, I don't want to take away from the main point, which is we have to fix our entitlement programs. We're not going to be able to do this without revenues. But there are savings to be had throughout the government, in the Defense Department, in the health care industries, in every one of our programs that's out there and in the government bureaucracy itself. And this should be something in order to help regain trust in government that we are able to really go through with a fine tooth comb and revamp a lot of these programs, free them of some of the bureaucratic constraints so that people can have more trust that if they are paying tax dollars, that those tax dollars are going to be used.Sam Stone: [00:41:48] Well, yeah, absolutely. I think all of that is critical. Maya macGuineas, thank you so much for joining us today. We really, really appreciate having you on the program. Folks, You can follow her on Twitter at Maya macGuineas, Mac McGinnis at Budget Hawks at Fix USA. Org and Crfb. Org. Maya, again, thank you so much for joining us on the program. We love having you on and look forward to having you on again in the near future.Maya MacGuineas: [00:42:17] Great. Nice to talk with you.Chuck Warren: [00:42:18] Thank you. This is breaking battlegrounds. Join us next for our podcast segment. We'll be honored to have Kylie Kipper straight from Houston talking crime and baseball. We're very excited about this.Sam Stone: [00:42:29] It's been a long time since we had Kylie.Chuck Warren: [00:42:31] She's got she's got a doozy. So folks, follow us at Breaking Battlegrounds Vote, share the podcast, and we'll talk to you here briefly on the podcast episode by.Sam Stone: [00:42:51] Welcome to the podcast, only segment of breaking battlegrounds. Up next, it's been a long time. It's been a very long time since we had a kyli true crime update. Kylie Kipper, our producer, hates being on the microphone today. She's been forced to be better at it. You know, you're great at it.Kylie Kipper: [00:43:10] That's the I'm getting more comfortable. I meant.Sam Stone: [00:43:12] Okay.Chuck Warren: [00:43:12] Two years will do that to you. Two years will do that to you.Sam Stone: [00:43:14] It's been a while, huh? So.Chuck Warren: [00:43:16] Kylie, you're actually in a state where there's been sort of this mystery. This young man was missing seven years ago, and then he showed up. And, you know, look, Americans love a kid being recovered. Story. All people do. If you don't, you don't have a heart. Right?Sam Stone: [00:43:29] So this is a strange one, though.Chuck Warren: [00:43:30] Chuck, So we're all excited about it then. Come to find out there's a little bit more to the story, which sadly seems to be a lot to these stories now. There always seems to be a little bit more to the story, right? So you've done some digging on it. Tell us about it. What's what's the true story here?Kylie Kipper: [00:43:44] Yeah, So there's a few pieces of this investigation which it's still ongoing. They have another press conference tonight, but they had one yesterday which has caused a lot of feathers to be ruffled. So Rudy Farias was 17 years old when his mom reported him missing after he took the dogs for a walk. It turns out that he had just run away and his mom had told him that police are looking for him and we'll put him in jail if he does not come home. So at that time, he went home two days later, but his mom never reported him of coming home. She just kept the investigation saying he's still missing. So he was discovered this week unconscious outside of a church in Houston where the police, when they reported to it to the scene, had just ended up calling his mom, saying, we found your son. And she was like, oh, this is amazing. She posted photos. I'm putting in air quotes of him in the hospital, which people, family members, his aunts, cousins have come out to say that those photos were taken in 2012. And they're not recent photos in which he did not, after being discovered at this church, did not go to the hospital to get any of the help that he may have needed. Um, the yesterday and the investigation. Police chief had said that they had many run ins with their family and that the entire time his mom would just say he is still missing if they would ask who he is in the house, because at this point he's gotten older, she would say, this is my nephew and give him a fake name.Sam Stone: [00:45:17] So So he was around. They they like set him up with a fake ID or something and were telling people he wasn't him.Kylie Kipper: [00:45:25] Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so the weird part about it is, is when they did the investigation with him and his mom, Rudy obviously would not speak about any wrongdoing of his mom the past eight years. So he would just say, you know, yeah, I was living at home. She just wanted me to keep it private. X, Y, z, until he got separated from his mom, which then he was doing an interview with a detective and this community activist named Quanell X. So this is where it gets like, all kind of. Different sides of the story. So the police chief in the interview yesterday said Rudy did not report any sexual assault charges by his. Or sexual assault wrongdoing by his mom. However, this Cornell gentleman who came out and was speaking and seemed very passionate about it was crying in the interviews. He was in the interview with the detective, and he clearly stated many times of sexual encounters with his mom that ultimately led him to run away after eight years, which is how he ended up at the church. So he had stolen his mom's car to get away from his mom. And some of these can be a bit disturbing, but you know, many things. So a little backtrack, a little history about his parents is his dad was also a part of the Houston Police Department until he committed suicide in around 2011, I believe, after they were investigating him for being corrupt. So people think that that has something to do with why the police chief is saying that there was that Rudy did not report any of this. However, Quanell has come out and done a bunch of interviews on Newsnation and Fox and is just saying he's reported that his mom would make him play daddy and would sleep naked in bed together.Chuck Warren: [00:47:19] And oh my gosh.Kylie Kipper: [00:47:21] Can use that kind of imagination, which ultimately would lead him to try to escape his mom again. After eight years. He would take she would take Rudy to work and make her or make him do her job.Sam Stone: [00:47:35] Um, she what was her job, do we know?Kylie Kipper: [00:47:38] It just seemed like some, like, low level.Chuck Warren: [00:47:41] Clerical type job.Kylie Kipper: [00:47:42] Yeah. Um.Sam Stone: [00:47:44] Was there any, like, financial incentive? I mean, was she, like, raising money for the search for him or something? What's the.Kylie Kipper: [00:47:50] Yes, she did have, um, a fundraiser online, which her goal was 75,000. I have not been able to find if she actually raised that money. But something else that came up was in Texas. If you have a child that goes missing after three years, you get a basically like a life insurance payout. So that's another thing that their goodness to see if she got that money. Um, but an ex-husband came out and said this is a little background about his mom now is an ex-husband came out and said that she was a bigamist. And what I could find is in 1997, she married some she married a guy. Then again in 1998, she married another guy in that same year. She wanted a annulment on the basis that she was already married to the previous guy, which neither of these is the police detective. In 2007. She then marries the detective for the Houston Police Department. And then in 1999 to 2010, there's another marriage that's been found and then a fourth marriage from 2009 to 2012 that has also been found.Chuck Warren: [00:48:56] Boy, some kid sure draw the short end of the stick who they get stuck with, parents and folks for you if you don't know, bigamy is when the crime of marrying someone while you're still married to someone else. In case you don't know that term, I hope it doesn't come up a lot in your conversations at home, but nonetheless, that's what it means. So what do you think happens now? What are the police saying? Or I guess we'll know more tonight, right? I mean, that's really the key.Kylie Kipper: [00:49:16] So everyone so after this investigation between his mom and his and Rudy, the detective that sat there with Quanell X, this community activist, left the room and Quanell, said, I'm going to do interviews on this. Is there anything you don't want me to say? And he said, No, you can say whatever you want. The detective then went into the next room and arrested or put handcuffs, not arrested, put handcuffs on the mom, which indicated that Quanell says this detective thought his mom had committed a crime. However, at the end of the day, they ended up just walking both of them out and they left together. So now no one is 100% positive where Rudy or his mom are located today.Chuck Warren: [00:49:54] Well, how old was he when he disappeared?Kylie Kipper: [00:49:56] He was 17 and.Chuck Warren: [00:49:58] He's been missing. They may say he was of sound mind to be in a relationship. I bet. I bet that's part of it. So we're going to have you talking about this again next week. You'll keep us up to date when you're back in the studio now, folks, so you don't understand. Kylie is in Houston today, not because she loves the summer weather of Houston, but nobody.Sam Stone: [00:50:16] Nobody loves the summer weather or the smell of Houston in the.Chuck Warren: [00:50:19] Summer. Her fiance, Isaiah Campbell, who's been playing Double A for the Seattle Mariners affiliate in Little Rock, was called up to the big league club, the Mariners, yesterday. And Kylie hopped on a plane and flew out there. And Kylie, just what was that experience like? What were your feelings? I mean, it's you know, look, a lot of people don't get to do this. So how was it for you?Kylie Kipper: [00:50:41] I mean, sometimes still to this moment, it doesn't feel real. Um, I think I did an interview yesterday with an MLB TV reporter, and it was very hard to articulate how I was feeling. And, you know, just like the emotions that go into it because he has just had this dream For him since he was little. And it's finally coming true. He is. Yesterday he was not in the game yet, so we're still waiting for his. Actual official debut. But he is on the roster and we're hoping it's. Tonight or tomorrow.Chuck Warren: [00:51:10] Well, folks, as you know, Sam and I adore Kylie and the great work she does on the show and Jamie. And so I was last night watching two teams. I could care less about the Astros and Mariners waiting for her to pitch. And apparently Isaiah's good teammate was the starter last night and decided like, let me pitch like a Cy Young Award winner this year. It's what he did. So Isaiah did not get in the game. So this weekend, if he can pull up the Mariners and Houston Astros and look for Isaiah Campbell to come in late innings to help the team out.Kylie Kipper: [00:51:39] Yeah.Sam Stone: [00:51:40] Can we just get Kylie to post a clip of his appearance so I don't have to watch a mariners Astros game?Chuck Warren: [00:51:45] Chuck Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. So before you get Kylie off and end the podcast, we just want to give a congratulations. And since Kylie is engaged, she'll appreciate this. Jimmy, Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter today are celebrating their 77th anniversary. Now, folks, let me let me talk about this for a minute here. The US census says 6% of married couples in the United States make the 50th wedding anniversary, one tenth of a percent make their seventh of those 75 years or more. They don't even keep the statistic. So that's that's how rare that is. And Sam makes a good point. You know, it's the longevity. The lifespan of.Sam Stone: [00:52:23] A man is like 79.Chuck Warren: [00:52:24] Years. There's a lot to this, but there's a lot of people who just don't want to be together 77 years. So there's something to this, right?Sam Stone: [00:52:30] It's an amazing it's an amazing thing. And congratulations to both of them, without a doubt. And it speaks to great character on both.Chuck Warren: [00:52:37] It really does. It really does. And it speaks to a great partnership. Yeah. So happy anniversary to the Carters. Kylie, We're very excited for you and we're excited for his first pitch to Major League Baseball this weekend. And so we'll keep in touch with you on that, folks. This is breaking battlegrounds. You can follow us on breaking battlegrounds vote. Besides the radio stations we're on, you can also catch us on podcasts wherever you listen to a podcast, please share. Please rate. Thanks a million. We'll be back next week. Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, Chuck and Sam are joined by friend of the show, Martin Di Caro of the Washington Times and host of the History as It Happens podcast. Later in the, Utah’s Congressman Blake Moore calls in to talk about his work on the House Ways and Means Committee. -Martin Di Caro brings 25 years of broadcast journalism experience to the Washington Times. He has won numerous prestigious awards throughout his career in major media markets across the country. Before coming to the Times, Martin was a news anchor at Bloomberg Radio’s Washington bureau. From 2012 to 2017, he covered transportation at NPR member station WAMU 88.5 in Washington, where his work on the yearslong Metrorail crisis earned Martin his second Edward R. Murrow award, which included hosting the radio station’s first podcast, Metropocalypse. Martin worked as a reporter for AP Radio in New York and Washington for eight years starting in 2008. He lives in the Columbia Heights neighborhood of D.C. and his interests include reading history and following his beloved New York Jets. He can be reached at mdicaro@washingtontimes.com.-A native of Ogden, Blake Moore is a proactive problem solver committed to representing each and every constituent of Utah’s First District. He is dedicated to reflecting Utah’s values in Congress and finding solutions to the challenges facing the district and the state. Advocating for inclusive, pro-growth, and aspirational principles, Blake is amplifying Northern Utah’s voice on a national level to ensure Utahns receive the service and representation they deserve.Blake currently serves as the first-ever Utah Republican on the House Ways and Means Committee, where he sits on the Healthcare, Social Security, and Work and Welfare subcommittees. He also serves on the House Budget Committee to push for policies to reverse our national debt crisis and advocate for Utah’s defense community. Blake continues to represent Hill Air Force Base as co-chair of the Armed Forces and Depot caucuses.Before being elected to Congress, Blake worked for small businesses and in the foreign service, experiences that now guide his work on domestic and foreign policy. As a Principal at Cicero Group, Blake worked primarily in the social impact, marketing research, and strategy practice areas leading projects and serving clients throughout Utah and the nation. He has expertise in education, financial services, public policy, healthcare, transportation, supply chain, and waste industries, and this work informs his customer service and problem solver approach in Washington, D.C., as he identifies ways to help the federal government better work for Northern Utah. His passion for helping organizations manage the change process drives his ambition to overcome partisan gridlock, improve federal agencies, and smartly streamline the nation’s bureaucracy.Previously, Blake worked abroad in business development in the healthcare and financial services industries, which led him to understand the challenges that small businesses grapple with daily. Blake was also honored to serve in the Foreign Service for the U.S. Department of State, where he gained first-hand knowledge of America’s international threats. This experience taught him to take seriously the United States’ diplomatic apparatus, the readiness of the Armed Forces, and the nation’s commitment to strengthening partnerships and alliances across the globe.Blake joined Congress in 2021 and served on the Armed Services, Natural Resources, and Budget committees during his first term. On these committees, he advocated for Hill Air Force Base and Utah’s defense community, promoted domestic energy production, worked on addressing our debt and deficit crises, among several other efforts. Congressman Moore convened a Debt and Deficit Task Force in Ogden to create a framework of solutions with local leaders for how the federal government can grow the economy, save and strengthen vital programs, focus America’s spending, and fix Congress’s budgeting process. For these efforts, he was named a 2022 Fiscal Hero by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. He also successfully pushed for provisions in the National Defense Authorization Act packages for FY22 and FY23 that support Hill Air Force Base’s modernization efforts, Sentinel program, housing availability, and more.Blake was the most successful freshman Republican member in terms of legislation passed, with four bills signed into law by President Biden and several more passed through committee. His bills that became law are the Saline Lake Ecosystems in the Great Basin States Program Act, the Better Cybercrime Metrics Act, the National Medal of Honor Act, the Modernizing Access to our Public Land Act, and provisions in the Afghanistan Accountability Act.Blake is an active and valued team player within the House Republican Conference, chosen to serve as an Assistant Whip on the Republican Whip Team, the House Armed Services Committee conferee on the China legislation conference committee, and co-chair of the bipartisan Depot, Air Force, and Future caucuses. Blake obtained a Master’s in Public Policy and Administration from Northwestern University. He graduated from the University of Utah after serving a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Seoul, South Korea, and signing a scholarship to play as the quarterback at Utah State University. In high school, he was awarded the Wendy’s National High School Heisman, an award honoring one male and one female senior for excellence in athletics, academics, and citizenship. He remembers fondly a conversation with a Heisman trustee after the ceremony. The trustee mentioned that it was Blake’s Eagle Scout and other service projects that set him apart. Blake recalls thinking at that moment, “I’m not special; that’s just the way kids are raised in Northern Utah!”Blake is married to Jane Boyer, his amazing, humorous, and very candid wife, who encourages him to take risks and pursue big things. Blake and Jane have four awesome and active boys who keep them on their toes- Max, George, Winston, and Franklin. Even with a congressional term under his belt, Blake’s most prized title is “Little League Coach.”-Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds-Transcription Sam Stone: [00:00:10] Welcome to another episode of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. First up today, we're very excited to have returning guests, Martin Di Caro. Martin is a broadcast journalist for The Washington Times and host of The History As It Happens podcast, which I know Chuck is a huge fan of. I've tuned into a number of times, highly recommend that folks and Chuck take it away.Chuck Warren: [00:00:32] So folks, we'll post this on our social media. Martin had a great episode this past Thursday called Our Radical Declaration, talking about the Declaration of Independence since July 4th is here coming up. And Martin, thanks for visiting us today.Martin Di Caro: [00:00:49] Chuck and Sam, I'm delighted to be here. Happy Independence Day in advance.Chuck Warren: [00:00:54] Thank you very much. Are you as well? So the podcast is history as it happens. And Martin, I want to I want to start off with this question. So we all have origin stories. We were talking before the show, Apple, they did a garage. I mean, it seems like all tech companies start in a garage for some reason, but nonetheless, it's a garage, right? But these origin stories define who we are. Right? And I was thinking the other day on a flight where I hit four cities in five days and the Delta flight attendant came up and hand me a thank you letter for flying three. 3 million miles, Right. Like, I don't know what they expect me to do with the letter, but nonetheless, it was nice of her. And and I thought about all the times I have taken red eyes home to go see kids games, be there for events. And I asked my kids, what do they remember? And they said, I just remember you sacrifice for the family. So that's an origin story for our family, right? What is the origin story for our country, specifically July 4th? And does that origin story still stand?Martin Di Caro: [00:01:55] I would say yes. We're still living in the political world of the founders. Lots of changes. Of course, lots of stuff has happened, had a civil war and what is often called our second founding with the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. And of course, World War Two made the United States a global power right. Uncontested global power in the Cold War victory in late 1980s. But to get back to your question, yes, our origins are still very important. They're still contested. But, you know, we're a nation built upon ideas, and ideas are never static. They're dynamic. And, you know, what does it mean to be an American? That question was trenchant in the late 18th century, and we're still contesting it today. And that's kind of the nature of democracy, right? It's permanent origin. It's permanent argument. Just look at the Supreme Court decisions that have come down the past week. Right. They deal with fundamental rights, sometimes competing rights. You know, as David M Kennedy, a great historian has said, who gets a seat at the table of the great American barbecue. So our origins, you know, in retrospect, were rather puny when you think about what the revolutionaries accomplished, right? But that egalitarian rhetoric, those egalitarian ideals are still very much with us. We're still contesting them. Our history is a history of political conflict.Sam Stone: [00:03:20] Martin I actually don't like the idea of a second founding as much as realistically after the Civil War was the I don't want to say culmination because we've seen with these Supreme Court cases even this week the continuation. But that was really the first major step in fulfilling all the promises that the founders laid out. And part of the genius to me of of both the declaration and the Constitution is that they understood that they were imperfect and that they would not achieve right away all the ideals they laid down on paper, but they left a path for us to do it.Martin Di Caro: [00:03:56] Absolutely. And I like how you linked both the Declaration and the Constitution together. Obviously, the Constitution created our government or our second government because the Articles of Confederation didn't work out. But that was very Lincolnian of you. I mean, he saw both of them as being connected. Yeah, I mean the revolution. And I'm going to I'm going to cite Gordon Wood's work here, by the way, in my first podcast of this three part series I'm doing, my guests were Sean Wilentz and Jim Oakes. They are fantastic. I hope everyone takes a listen to that. But I'll cite Gordon Wood here. He says the revolution did more than legally create the United States. It transformed our society. The changes were radical and they were extensive, he says. You know, instead of focusing on what the revolution did not accomplish, to your point about it being incomplete, we should focus instead on why these ideas were so powerful and continue to animate our politics to this day. Our revolution eliminated monarchy. It created a large republic. It reconstituted again, citing Gordon Wood. What Americans meant by public or state power brought an entirely new kind of politics and a new kind of democratic. Office holder onto the world stage. And I do think the revolutionaries of the late 18th century knew that they were you know, I don't want to say that they knew they would be talking for the ages, you know, for all time. But they got the sense that they were on history's stage as well. I mean, it was a revolution. It did reorder society.Chuck Warren: [00:05:26] Wherewith Martin Di Caro. He is a broadcast journalist for The Washington Times and host a great podcast history As it happens. If you want to be smart, listen to that podcast. Let me ask you this question. I think there's one thing people don't understand about the Revolutionary War and the Declaration of Independence, and hopefully you can talk a little bit about it. A third of the country supported it. A third probably was ambivalent. And the other third was, you know, the British fanboys. Right. I mean, is that fair to say?Martin Di Caro: [00:05:53] Yeah, that's what John Adams said. You know, it's hard to say exactly what public opinion was at any given time. You know, there was no polling. Of course, even polls today aren't altogether accurate. But yeah, that's roughly how how historians see it. You know, you had that middle ground of people who were indifferent. I mean, revolutions and wars are scary things. And we know that ordinary people get swept up in are damaged by, you know, the the vicissitudes of war. How do you like that word? Love it more so than you know, others. So, yeah, you did have people who were ardent revolutionaries who wanted to break with Great Britain. He had other revolutionaries who were more moderate, looking to reconcile even well into 1776. And then, of course, you did have loyalists, but, you know, loyalist the number of loyalists and their strength was always overestimated by I mean, that was one of the problems of the way parliament and the king handled all this. They thought that Loyalism was was stronger than it actually, it was. It was actually. And as the war goes on, it becomes weaker and weaker.Sam Stone: [00:06:56] Well, and when you talk about that ambivalence, one of the things if I if you go back and think about it was a historical in many ways, but the movie The Patriot with Mel Gibson one of the one of the depictions that I did like in that was that they showed the war happening in people's front yards. Right. Which was the truth, right? I mean, this was not being fought in some remote battlefield that nobody had any connection to. This was this was a civil war, a revolution fought in people's backyards and people's front yards. And so you can understand the ambivalence of a lot of folks who didn't want to see that for any number of reasons, merely the protection of their family.Martin Di Caro: [00:07:36] Yeah, Revolutionary War was in many ways a civil war. Loyalists had their lost their property. They were outcasts from society for a while after the war ended. And we can celebrate the revolution because it turned out the way, you know, we think it should have turned out. But at the time, of course, there was no unity about any of this. Right? Right. We tend to look back at the revolution as a source of, well, something that all of us can celebrate. But don't use the word unity. As I mentioned at the top of the show, we're still contesting its meaning. We're still arguing over the meaning of freedom and civil liberties and rights. I mean, that's something that comes up in this series. I'm doing Jack Rakove, another great historian, will be my guest in part two of this series. He talks about, you know, the revolutionaries who were gathered at the Continental Congress in Philadelphia. They were not concerned with, you know, what we now consider to be statements of individual equality. You know, their purpose and this makes sense, of course, was, you know, in the in the maelstrom of a war, to declare that the colonists as a people had the same rights to self-government as other nations. But, of course, they use universal language. I mean, Jefferson wrote it a certain way for certain reasons, and that language became aspirational for anybody. I mean, even during the war enslaved black people, they start to cite the Declaration of Independence. These ideas about egalitarianism are percolating at a level audible to normal people, and they're citing the declaration to sue for freedom. And they're collaborating with whites to end slavery in the northern colonies than the northern states, which as we know does happen mostly in a gradual sense. But there was an anti-slavery aspect to the revolution.Chuck Warren: [00:09:22] Well, didn't Martin Luther King call the Declaration of Independence a promissory note? He did at.Martin Di Caro: [00:09:27] The March on Washington. 60th anniversary of that is coming up this year. Elizabeth Cady Stanton at Seneca Falls in 1858. She cites the the Declaration of Independence in her Declaration of Sentiments. And that, of course, is part of political struggle. It takes another 70 years for women to get the right to vote in the federal constitution and amendment, of course, even. Ho Chi Minh, a communist. He cited the Declaration of Independence verbatim in 1945 when he tried to announce Vietnamese independence after World War Two.Sam Stone: [00:10:00] You know what I always found interesting about the founding and the writing of the declaration, the Constitution, This was not the first time that any of. These ideas had been put on paper, but it was the first time they were brought together as the foundation of a new government. In other words, these ideas had been percolating.Chuck Warren: [00:10:16] It wasn't a talk, the talk. It was a walk. The walk.Sam Stone: [00:10:18] Right? Yeah. Which made it very different.Martin Di Caro: [00:10:22] And they had no way of knowing it would even succeed. I mean, as a matter of fact, the Revolutionary War did not go well, right? For a lot of reasons. I mean, they barely could keep an army in the field. I mean, this frustrated George Washington to no end. The state governments didn't want to pay, you know, their fair share to keep an army supplied. And it was very difficult to raise taxes at all under the Articles of Confederation to pay for things. Inflation was rampant. As I mentioned, war is miserable. And there was also a smallpox outbreak. Yeah.Chuck Warren: [00:10:55] So. Martin, that is a great point here. I think people seem to forget that America has always been somewhat messy because we're allowed to speak our mind, right? And and with a minute 30 here for our next segment, what have you, as you've studied and interviewed all these great historians, what do you view as the top three or 2 or 3 qualities that American president has to have unite people to for a common good, A common cause?Martin Di Caro: [00:11:21] You said an American president? Yeah. Oh, I think vision is important. I think it's important to invoke our origins to. But not an idealized kind of silly or patriotic way. But, you know, I think also for any president, right. Any politician to understand the importance of politics, I think a lot of people today kind of throw their hands up in the air. Yes. And I noticed this a lot on the especially among younger people on the left. Politics is slow and ineffective. And, you know, our all that egalitarian rhetoric was a lie when they said it back in the 18th century. I do not agree with that position. So, you know, you get this pessimistic, despondent type of attitude when, you know, our history is a history of political conflict. It's about, you know, stating a vision. I think any successful politician can state a vision, but also be good at the politics.Sam Stone: [00:12:14] Fantastic. Martin We're going to be coming back, folks, with more in just a moment from Martin DeCaro of The Washington Times and host of History As It Happens podcast. Be sure you're tuning in and downloading. Go to breaking battlegrounds vote. You can get the links to all of our Substack, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, all the good stuff there. Make sure you're signing up to get our latest episodes right in your email box. We really appreciate it. And hang on because we have more with Martin Di Caro coming right up.Sam Stone: [00:00:05] Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. On the line with us is Martin Di Caro, broadcast journalist for The Washington Times and host of History As It Happens podcast. But folks, are you concerned with stock market volatility? If you're not, you should be. Market's been going up and down like a rocket. Any returns you're getting out there, it's very hard to count on them. That's why we at Breaking Battlegrounds have endorsed investing with Y Refy. If you invest with Y Refy, you can earn up to a 10.25% rate of return. That's a fixed rate of return at 10.25%. It's the best deal out there right now. Log on to invest Y Refy.com that's invest the letter y, then Refy.com or call them at 888. Y refy 24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you. You won't regret it. Chuck We're continuing on right now with Martin Di Caro. Fantastic conversation so far as we're heading into the July 4th super long weekend. This time.Chuck Warren: [00:01:05] Martin Talk to our audience a little bit, expand further on our last question about how political conflict works in America. And it's sometimes it's just a messy pot of stew. Yeah.Marti Di Caro: [00:01:16] Yeah. No one's going to hire me to be a political consultant, by the way. But I mean, being good at politics is hard. I mean, there's not just one actor either. So you have a, you know, a brilliant political manipulator like Lyndon Johnson. But, you know, he wasn't the only actor in all of that as well. He needed help from other people. But I guess my point is, you know, I'm more interested in I've been doing these shows now about the American Revolution and just trying to understand why things happen the way they did, rather than saying, Oh, I wish this had happened sooner than it actually did. You know, why did it take 20 years to finally get rid of the slave trade through federal legislation in 1807 1808, following the compromise that was made at the Constitutional Convention? Why did it take Abraham Lincoln all of 18 months? As if 18 months is a really long amount of time to do a full emancipation proclamation out of after the start of the Civil War. You know, why did it take 70 years after Elizabeth Cady Stanton in the Seneca Falls meetings in 1858? 70 years to finally get, you know, women's suffrage? Well, instead of saying, you know, complaining that things didn't happen on the schedule, we think it should have, we need to think more historically and really understand why things happen the way they did. How is an American Revolution even possible to begin with? Why were people ready to hear those egalitarian words and act on them when they did? I think we get a better understanding of our origins when we do that.Sam Stone: [00:02:41] Because in many ways, Martin, a lot of those ideas were not to the benefit of the the most powerful people who had guided our society and every other society prior to the implementation of these ideals, right? I mean, they they benefited from the system that was previously in place.Marti Di Caro: [00:02:59] Absolutely. I mean, you can make the point about Thomas Jefferson himself, right? He penned the document with some help from Adams and Franklin and others. He was a lifelong slaveholder and he certainly did not want to see slavery. Well, you know, Jefferson's views on slavery do change over time. Early in his career, he took some aggressive moves to try to end slavery. But later on, he didn't, partly because it was an unpopular thing to do in Virginia, which was a very large, you know, slave holding colony, then slaveholding state. But certainly, yeah, you know, this is a very corrosive idea, egalitarianism. It challenges the status quo. Other people are free to interpret those words any way they want in a democratic society and say, you know what, I want a seat at the table as well. So, yeah, you're right.Chuck Warren: [00:03:48] Of the 56 delegates at the Second Continental Congress, we call them our founding fathers, who was one besides the obvious? Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, who's who's somebody that stands out that people don't pay enough attention to.Marti Di Caro: [00:04:00] I think somebody like John Dickinson, who was a patriot and a revolutionary, but he was rather moderate. I think it's interesting to look at the way and I can recommend a book about this. Please do. Please do. Yeah. Well, and I think this book is still in print. I was able to find a copy of it. Wouldn't that be great if I recommend a book that no one can actually find?Chuck Warren: [00:04:18] Yeah. Yeah.Marti Di Caro: [00:04:19] The Beginnings of National Politics by Jack Rakove. I use this book to frame our conversation in part two of my series. Dickinson was very, very interesting as to why he was trying to still reconcile with the Crown. You know, people like James Otis, George Mason, they articulated many of these ideas and ideals, but we don't often think of them. They don't come to mind right away. We rather think of Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, George Washington.Chuck Warren: [00:04:47] Will Gallup this week released a poll and the headline Extreme Pride Americans remains Near Record Low, which was funny about it, is 67% of Americans are extremely or very proud of the United States. That's a pretty high number. Right. And then which.Sam Stone: [00:05:03] Throws a lot of the modern.Chuck Warren: [00:05:04] Narrative. Yeah. Yeah. It did. Another 22% of us adults are moderately proud. I mean, so basically you're over you're close mid 80s on this. Right. But why do you think to our audience, why do you think we should be proud to be Americans?Marti Di Caro: [00:05:18] Well, you know, I'm also not happy with a lot of things these days. And, you know, I guess depending on your politics, maybe the Supreme Court has you pulling your hair out. Maybe you think, hey, this is how our founders intended it to be. Right? Right. You know, your question again, why, why or why should people be proud of their country? I think because, you know, we have a premise for a politics, a progressive politics, if you want to use that word, to make positive change. Now, maybe some people aren't happy with that use of my choice of words there. So guess what? I guess what I'm trying.Sam Stone: [00:05:52] I'm all for stealing progressive back.Marti Di Caro: [00:05:55] You know, if people are going to sneer at our country, right. And our founding and these ideals and the egalitarian, egalitarian rhetoric and say, well, it was a lie then and we've never been able to fulfill it as if anyone actually argues it was a reflection of reality in the late 18th century. Right. Well, if they're going to sneer at that, as James Oakes said on my show, then what's their premise for change? What are you going to base your politics on? Right. I think I like our system, right. I like the idea of fundamental human equality as the guiding principle for our nation.Sam Stone: [00:06:30] I think that's a great point, because with all the tear the system down rhetoric you hear today in the news and on social media, the one thing that's missing is what? What follows? What are what are you trying to replace these current systems with other than some vague notion of.Chuck Warren: [00:06:49] Yo have a my way or the highway mentality is what you.Marti Di Caro: [00:06:51] Have. That's people who give up on politics. Then, you know, abolish the Senate, abolish the Supreme Court. I mean, that's not serious stuff.Chuck Warren: [00:06:58] But, you know, but in fairness to you, you're also a patient man. I mean, for example, you're a Jets fan, right? So this is taught you this is taught you amazing patience over the years, right?Marti Di Caro: [00:07:08] Yes. And I will never give up on them because I know the moment I finally, you know, throw in the towel, they'll win.Chuck Warren: [00:07:14] I remember I remember for the Giants became this this great power years when I grew up in the Northern California, the old next door neighbor who loved the giants said, look, I've just learned to say there's always next year, you know? And I think that's for the Jets fans, too. You know?Sam Stone: [00:07:28] You know what? You know what I want for the Jets season? I want a great like six games from Aaron Rodgers, who goes down with a tragic injury. And we see we see we see Zach Wilson come back with the all time great comeback. Yeah, great comeback. Rebirth of his career.Marti Di Caro: [00:07:45] Well, you know, everyone needs a soap opera. Some people watch real soap operas. I watch the Jets.Sam Stone: [00:07:51] Well, I get I get The New York Post in my news every morning, and they're panic over. That would be.Chuck Warren: [00:07:56] Fantastic. It'd be amazing.Marti Di Caro: [00:07:58] Great sports section in that paper.Chuck Warren: [00:08:01] Martin. Martin, what else with our limited time here, what else do you think people should pay more attention to regarding the July 4th? We have one minute.Marti Di Caro: [00:08:10] You know what? Go and read the Declaration of Independence. Everyone can cite those, you know, 55 most famous words. Read the grievances, especially the final grievance. You know, we didn't get to this, but that's okay. This whole idea of a slavery revolution, that's a nonsensical idea that's been put out there by the 1619 project. Yeah. Read those grievances and then go and understand, you know, what was the purpose behind them? Why was Jefferson and his compatriots, why did they, you know, go after King George the third the way they did after, you know, going after parliament through most of.Sam Stone: [00:08:42] The the antidote to ahistorical nonsense is actual history. Thank you so much, Martin De Caro, broadcast journalist for Washington Times and History as It Happens podcast. We love having you on the program and look forward to having you again, folks. Breaking battlegrounds. Back with more in just a moment.Chuck Warren: [00:00:09] Welcome to Breaking Battlegrounds. I'm your host, Chuck Warren, with my co-host, Sam Stone. Today, we are lucky to have with us on these two segments, Congressman Blake Moore. Congressman Moore represents Utah's first Congressional District. He is also the first ever Republican from Utah who sits on the House Ways and Means Committee, which discusses issues we talk about all the time. Sam, health care, Social Security work and welfare subcommittees.Sam Stone: [00:00:32] Pretty much all the most important stuff in the country goes through ways and means.Chuck Warren: [00:00:35] Exactly. He is married to Jane Boyer, who the former Jane Boyer. And she is a very candid wife. And so we want to know how she's candid with you, Blake. And he's also the father of four active boys and he's also a little league coach. How are you as a Little League coach, Congressman?Congressman Moore: [00:00:54] You know, I've had a ref pull me aside the other day. He said, wait, you're the congressman, aren't you? And I go, Oh, boy. And he said, he goes, You were on our case today, but I like it. I'd vote for you because you're fiery. I like that you got passion. So I figured it could very well work in the opposite for me as well, too. So I do have to be careful.Chuck Warren: [00:01:18] So what are the what are the age range for your boys?Congressman Moore: [00:01:21] Ten, seven, seven and about 18 months.Chuck Warren: [00:01:24] So which one do you coach, the ten year old or seven year old?Congressman Moore: [00:01:26] Mostly to this point. The ten year old. The seven year old started playing a lot of sports kind of right when I was first running for office. And that was that was tough. So I did a lot with the seven year old. And now I'm picking it back up now that I'm, you know, in my second term, a little bit of a groove scheduling wise that I can, you know, try to try to get engaged a little bit more. So mostly. Mostly, yes. Football, basketball and baseball. You get me outside those three sports, I don't know what I'm doing.Chuck Warren: [00:01:53] Or does your wife feel outnumbered in the house or everybody knows who's really in charge there?Congressman Moore: [00:01:58] They know who's in charge. But she. I actually wanted the girl more. Uh, ironically enough, I think if we were to have had a girl, it would have been she. She would have definitely said that was the best thing. But I still am the one that wants the daughter wants the wedding one day to give away the all that stuff. A little bit of a traditionalist there. So I do feel like we never got that girl, but we definitely don't need five boys. So the risk of going for any more is going to be way, way out.Chuck Warren: [00:02:30] You're not you're not taking that to Vegas. Um, so how do you handle the travel with four young boys and take it? Your family lives in the district in Utah. How do you handle your travel back and forth?Congressman Moore: [00:02:40] Fortunately, I'm about 15 minutes from the airport, and we have direct flights from Salt Lake. So that is a uniquely special thing we can have direct to DC. So that cuts down. I have colleagues from North Dakota, Iowa, some places in Texas, they're an hour, hour and a half away from an airport. Then they're taking a layover. It can always be worse for you. And so my mindset is, one, it could always be worse. I have it pretty, pretty good. Um, think of what some of our military folks go through and the time they spend away from their family and, and, you know, the duty and honor that they do in their life and their service is more honorable, I think, than than what we do in Congress. But it is a fight in Congress. And and it is it is a sacred position. So, um, other folks have always sacrificed more. I think that's how I look at it. My wife deals with it. She she said to me when I first ran, Now listen, if you win, which I don't think you will, you when you win, you can't give me a hard time or make any of those snide comments you do. When we budget together, you can't be passive aggressive about babysitting costs. You just have to you just have to take it and you have to deal with it and not give me a hard time. And you let me own that.Sam Stone: [00:03:53] And Congressman, we could feel bad for you. But we've had the member from Guam on this show and there's nobody who's got a travel schedule as rough as that Poor guy.Congressman Moore: [00:04:02] Exactly.Chuck Warren: [00:04:03] Um, quickly here, tell us a little bit about your work with small business. Is there any bills you're sponsoring on it?Congressman Moore: [00:04:09] So in 2017, Republicans, you know, went at it alone. They used the budget reconciliation process, which allows you to pass a bill without, you know, by bypassing the filibuster when you have the White House, House and Senate, Republicans and Democrats both do this often. Sometimes that leads to big legislation that you wouldn't otherwise do or be able to do given the filibuster. But, um. They they they did the Tax Cut and Jobs Act. And in that tax cut, Jobs Act was a lot of things. And it is our job now and we're in a different political environment. So we're not going to be able to do that same thing over again and re-up everything that's in the Tax Cut and Jobs Act because it's not a political reality. Right. The things that expired, the Democrats aren't going to go on board with. But there are issues. There are there are provisions inside that bill that we have to be able to look back and say, what has worked, what has driven growth, and the Small Business Growth Act that we put together that was passed out of the committee just a few weeks ago, something we're really excited about. And basically it doubles your ability to take itemized deductions on capital improvements, farm equipment, office equipment and just things that you're investing in your own business. A major piece of manufacturing. If you can write all.Chuck Warren: [00:05:25] These all these things, that creates productivity and jobs, correct? Exactly. We're going to take a quick break here with Congressman Blake Moore. Utah's first Congressional District. He sits on the House Ways and Means Committee. This is breaking battlegrounds. You can find us at breaking battlegrounds. Vote. We'll be right back.Sam Stone: [00:00:11] Welcome back to.Sam Stone: [00:00:12] Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Continuing on the line with us, Congressman Blake Moore from Utah's first Congressional District here in just a moment. But folks, are you struggling with stock market volatility right now, especially with Joe Biden in office? What if you could invest in a portfolio with a high fixed rate of return that's not correlated to the stock market? A portfolio where you know what each monthly statement will look like with no surprises, you can turn your monthly income on or off, compound it, whatever you choose. There's no loss of principle. If you need your money back at any time, your interest is compounded daily, you're paid monthly. There are no fees. And this is a secure collateralized portfolio that delivers a fixed rate of return up to 10.25%, up to 10.25%. It's the best deal out there in investing right now. Check out our friends at Invest Y Refy.com That's invest the letter Y. The letter Y, then Refy.com or give them a call at 888 Y Refy 24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you. Okay, Chuck Continuing on with Congressman Moore. Congressman, are you familiar with the proposal that I believe it's Congressman Schweikert here from Arizona has put up to increase the minimum before businesses have to file a 1099 for contract employees and the like from I believe it's currently $600 or 800 up to 5000. Talking to a lot of small business owners, that's the kind of simple thing that would make their lives massively easier. Is that something that that you're looking to support and that others should be talking about more? Because I heard a little about it and then it seems to have disappeared.Congressman Moore: [00:01:47] It's absolutely yeah, I know about it. We passed it in the the economic package a few weeks ago. This is the this is an opportunity to that the chairman, Chairman Smith wanted us to go out into, you know, regular America, not just inside the Beltway and do some and do some public hearings. And this is one of the things that rang true and kind of highlighted to us. Well, we need to really be focused on this. This is like listening to, you know, everyday Americans running their businesses. This is what we learn from them. And we're like this. This was set years and years ago. And if you would have just adjust for inflation, it would go up. That's how you get with the regulatory body. It becomes archaic and you don't create opportunities to be dynamic within the system. So it's a no brainer in my opinion. It's an overly burdensome. And I think the best example is the Chairman Smith, who still runs a small family farm. If someone comes and bails hay for him, like every like high school senior that comes and bails hay for, you know, ten bucks an hour, they end up having to do a full 1099. That is not the intent. So up the threshold, still holding people accountable. This isn't where the all the tax evaders are doing a bunch of high school seniors. This is not where it is. And babysitters like.Sam Stone: [00:02:58] No smarter.Congressman Moore: [00:02:59] Than our economy.Sam Stone: [00:03:00] The tax evaders tend to be in much higher tax brackets than people who are filing a few thousand dollars in a 1099. Exactly right. One of the things that I think has been a good focus within this Congress and this touches on it, but is and it seems like we could at least find some more room with Democrats to agree on. This is going through some of these archaic rules and saying, hey, does this really still work or does it need to be adjusted or does it need to be replaced or gotten rid of it? Deregulating in a way that doesn't reduce oversight is very possible, isn't it?Congressman Moore: [00:03:35] Yeah, it's very possible. And we need to be adults back in Washington and find those simplistic things we can address on in the Ways and Means Committee. Right now, trade is largely bipartisan and we actually have really good collaborative work together. We do on that. Taxation has become so toxic that I feel that I fear people aren't looking at the big picture. And and if you take an individual piece, I think you got a lot of agreement, but it's how you move it forward. And that's the thing I don't think Americans necessarily understand well enough is, yeah, we agree on a lot of things, but then how you move the package forward, do you tie it to something else that's less popular and try to get more support? That's where we've got to get to more single issue voting that would make everything run more smoothly back there.Chuck Warren: [00:04:24] Well, that's absolutely right. We've often wondered and we talked to various members and they all say, yes, you're correct, Why don't you push more single issue? So, for example, here's one we had a former attorney here who worked on the border and she suggesting, for example, an immigration bill that says unless you come through a port of entry and there's about 327 of them, some of them in the United States, unless you come through a port of entry, you're immediately denied asylum. You need to come through the front door. Right? Right. There needs to be a process that seems like a pretty easy bill. If somebody just submitted that issue alone, one pager, it gets through.Sam Stone: [00:04:57] From an Arizona perspective. It separates the wolves from the sheep. Right. Because the wolves will keep going through.Chuck Warren: [00:05:02] So why don't so so, Congressman, more why don't they do that more?Congressman Moore: [00:05:08] I, i, i. It would make so many things better in our legislative experience. Um. I. Immigration particularly has become a wedge issue. I don't know how else to put it. For 40 years, we've had people that want to to build the right type of policy. You either have to do one of two things on immigration and I'll be brief. You either have to do what we're talking about, make it very simplistic, and tie it together or make it more comprehensive. And and I think people want to get like halfway comprehensive, like I'm supportive of of truly looking at DACA and a visa system that makes sense and is streamlined and gets more workers here. I want more workers here. My district desperately needs more good workforce here, and that can come from a more streamlined immigration. But if we do all if we do that before we tighten up the border process, then the cartels will just be the cartels will be empowered. So you have to build a more comprehensive approach. I do like what Maria Salazar is doing in that comprehensive piece. I just don't think we're we're not ready for it right now because as Republicans, we want to make sure that you see the first part done, and that is the good policy remain in Mexico policy and tighten up the border security. And then we'll get plenty of people on board for for for streamlining it. But it's it's a conundrum and it's a wedge issue. And that's that's and we're not living up to what the Americans need. Every single person back in Washington isn't isn't living up to what they need.Chuck Warren: [00:06:37] So, Congressman Moore, let's talk about a simpler issue. And I say that sarcastically. You're on the House Ways and Means Committee. What do we do about Social Security? I mean, it's a ticking time bomb. People are not being honest about the reform. I have not heard any Republican to say, yeah, we're going to cut benefits now. We've made promise to some people currently retired and those close to retirement that need to be upheld. But what do we need to do for a workforce in their 20s and 30s who are going to have 80 plus year, you know, longevity? What do we do?Congressman Moore: [00:07:06] We took the best first step, last, last session of Congress. The 117th passed the secure 2.0 bill. Secure 2.0 will allow for younger workers to have an extra five or so years saving for retirement. If you are paying down your student loan, say you've graduated from grad school, you're 25 years old and you start paying down your student loan, you you oftentimes have to choose between paying down your student loan or contributing to your 401. K. Your company can. Now, if you are if you're paying your student loan down and a big, big win in Scotus today about the student loan repayment, we can get into that but the company can now contribute on your behalf even if you're not putting in your own match. So we're going to start having people save for retirement much earlier. Um, and that that will.Sam Stone: [00:07:53] That's a great step, Congressman. And thank you. I mean, it's the.Congressman Moore: [00:07:57] Right it's the right step. It had over 400 votes in Congress in the House to pass. Very bipartisan. It's productive. We we have to create other incentives that you do probably have to means test Social Security going forward. We got people getting it that really have that don't really they don't really need it. And they could actually probably delay if they were to be willing to take it in case they lived longer just to offset that risk. So there's all sorts of productive ways we can be doing this without just saying we need to tax more because we have a worker to retirement work ratio issue and we've known it's been coming. I will say this retroactively, if we would have done what President Bush had tried to push, tried to do, we would have been putting money instead of just into a, you know, a government low yield bond like the trust fund. We would have been putting money into mutual funds. And and Dems Democrats will always say, oh, you're privatizing it. You just want to help your Wall Street buddies. That's fundamentally false. And they know it and it's dishonest. If we would have done that, we would have been able to grow the amount of money that we have to contribute to that. Over the last 20 years, would anybody not choose to put money into an S&P 520 years ago? Absolutely not. It was closing at 900 and today it's closing at 4000. Stock markets go up into the right generally over time. They always have. If we don't if we're not willing to trust that, then we're not going to be able to to to to do that. So there's all sorts of things out there that could be doing and we're stuck in stagnation. And if we don't do something in the next ten years to truly address this issue, then, you know, we are we are literally dooming people to having far fewer, you know, 75% of the benefit automatically kicks in. So we're doing them regardless.Sam Stone: [00:09:41] It's a it's a really dishonest talking point, Chuck, to say that the market is somehow robbing people because over any 1 or 2 or 3 or 5 year period, the market may go up or down. But over any ten year period in US history, over 20 years, 50 years, it always goes up. Well, it's even more.Congressman Moore: [00:09:58] Look at all these Ivy League schools with their endowments, right? They're out there. They're out there engaging in growth opportunities, in market opportunities. And and I don't hear any Democrats complaining about all these Ivy leagues that are that are, you know, using their endowments to to cover their expenses. And they're doing a they're doing a fabulous job. And they're also very profitable. And we could be doing that more with with the government. I think Senator Cassidy, I believe, has got some really good proposals that that way it's tougher now because we just don't the trust fund is in such a dire it's in a more dire situation than it was back in the early 2000 when when President George W Bush wanted to push this more. It's just disingenuous.Sam Stone: [00:10:39] And I'm really glad, Congressman, that you brought up means testing, because I've heard too many politicians be afraid of that. But I've never talked to anyone who was rich who cared. No, you know, I mean, honestly, if you're rich, the amount you're going to get from Social Security is so minimal that it takes an actual Scrooge to care about whether they're going to get that money at that point, that that's just the way it is.Congressman Moore: [00:11:02] And what wealthy people want to see is good money going after good. If they're good, money is going after complete government waste. And right now we have just too much government spending and people are like, well, geez, I would love to be contributing to paying down our debt. If I knew that it was going to actually make a difference. But if it's not making a difference, then they shouldn't. So so I kind of see it both ways. But you're right, you've been saying and I think you can offset the risk by saying, I don't need to engage in this for, you know, if I live past I'm 80 or, you know, at 78, I will defer that to that point. There's no real serious conversations going on. It's more so just a little bit of of the latter. And, you know, Republicans had a chance to do it in 2017 and they they deferred and they President Trump wanted to wait till he was in his second term. And it's so ironic right now. I'm a guy that can call it both ways to see President Trump criticize House Republicans, trying to say we're out there trying to get rid of Social Security. That is also disingenuous and it's all political and it's just kind of lobbying for older people's votes. And that's that's not what that's not being an adult back there as not good.Sam Stone: [00:12:08] Governance, that's.Chuck Warren: [00:12:09] For sure. Governance at all. We have two minutes left here. So we're coming up on the July 4th weekend. Tell our audience what this holiday means to you. And specifically, what is your hope and vision for America ten, 20 years down the road?Congressman Moore: [00:12:24] Oh, thank you. I love that question. I really appreciate you focusing on that. You know, it's not just a talking point or a feel good statement, but but God, country and family, they really do mean a lot. And they should be. What everybody what we root ourselves in for this holiday is is family. For me, I've always been able to find time to boat, to golf, to to to something outdoors. We're not great campers. We got young kids still. But like in Utah, like this holiday matters. And there's always time to to find opportunities to to be with family. And I love it. And Utah is a unique place because you have the 4th of July and then you have the 24th of July. And that's our sort of a holiday when the Pioneers came into to Utah. So we call it Pioneer Day. And so there's a lot of fireworks, a lot of God country and family in this place. And my my honest vision for America is to recognize that we have some we have policy differences. Um, but if we let those policy differences divide us continually and if we if that moves into constant personality and division, then China wins, Russia wins, our adversaries win. And we don't have the strength that we have and what we've led the world on over the over the last century. And my vision is to to be firm on where I'm at policy, defend it, try to persuade, and then look for opportunities to to unite our nation more so than than I feel like we are right now.Chuck Warren: [00:14:04] Congressman, we have 15 seconds with you. Where can people follow you on social media?Congressman Moore: [00:14:09] Electmoore.com Is my website or just go to rep Blakemore There's uh, I can't remember. So there's campaign and there's but rep Blakemore on all my socials. Uh, and we would love, would love to follow.Chuck Warren: [00:14:24] Congressman Moore, Utah's first Congressional District. Thanks for joining us. Have a great 4th of July. This is breaking battlegrounds. We'll be back after this break. Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, Chuck is out of the studio but Sam is joined by friend of the show, former Arizona State Legislator Michelle Ugenti-Rita. Sam and Michelle speak to Ann Atkinson who organized a Health, Wealth, and Happiness program at Arizona State University which featured prominent conservative speakers and was met with intense opposition from the left. Later in the show, Christina Eichelkraut returns to offer a unique perspective on the impact of artificial intelligence. -Ann Atkinson is the former Executive Director of the T.W. Lewis Center for Personal Development at Barrett, the Honors College. Ann is a Barrett alumna, entrepreneur, former public company executive, frequent public speaker, healthcare real estate expert, wife, mother, and triathlete. She has regularly volunteered for the Lewis Center, which has helped fulfill her passion to better prepare students for the challenges and opportunities of life.  Ann earned a Bachelor of Science in Finance from ASU, where she graduated from Barrett, the Honors College and with honors from the W.P. Carey School of Business.  She was introduced to commercial real estate through her Barrett honors internship, which led to a distinguished 17-year career in healthcare real estate. She most recently founded and led a privately-held national healthcare real estate investment firm. Previously, she was an executive officer for a healthcare real estate investment trust listed on the New York Stock Exchange, where she led acquisitions and dispositions on behalf of the company. Formerly, she worked for Jerry Colangelo, David Eaton, and Mel Shultz of JDM Partners, specializing in commercial real estate investments. Ann started her career with a national commercial real estate brokerage firm, specializing in office and medical office investment sales. -Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegroundsTranscription: Sam Stone: [00:00:10] Welcome to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone. Chuck Warren out of the studio today and we are blessed to have the talented, too talented and lovely women in the studio with me today, Michelle Ugenti-Rita. Thank you so much for joining us.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:00:25] Happy to be here.Sam Stone: [00:00:25] Former state legislator in Arizona. Lots of fun going on there right now.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:00:29] I know we could spend many segments on that.Sam Stone: [00:00:31] And we will get to a little bit of that later in the show, folks, as well. We also have a returning guest, Christina Eichelkraut, joining us. She's going to be featured in the podcast segment. Christina is my friend who's a progressive Democrat and loves to argue with me so it makes for good radio. Stay tuned. Make sure you download that podcast segment. But first up today, a story that's kind of been breaking in the last few days here, personal for a lot of us here in Arizona with our education system, with what's going on, with the sort of intellectual intolerance that is creeping into so much of this country. We have Ann Atkinson, former executive director of the T.W. Lewis Center for Personal Development at Barrett, the Honors College at Arizona State University. She is a Barrett alumna, entrepreneur, public company executive, you know, health care, real estate expert, wife, mother, triathlete. Heck of an impressive resume. And she put together helped put together an event. And we want to talk about that because the repercussions of that have been astounding to me. I mean, disheartening and astounding. So, Ann, thank you so much for joining us on breaking battlegrounds this morning. We really appreciate having you here.Ann Atkinson: [00:01:42] Thank you, Sam. It's great to be with you and with your audience today.Sam Stone: [00:01:46] Can you tell us because a lot of people, you know, maybe some folks here in Arizona will know what we're talking about offhand. But can you lay out the background of this? What happened? You know, kind of the timeline and then where we're at with it today, Because this is really kind of a stunning, disheartening, but also all too predictable now occurrence in higher education. So go ahead.Ann Atkinson: [00:02:10] Absolutely, Sam. At a very high level, the T.W. Lewis Center is a personal development center that puts on speaker programs and workshops and also has some honors courses for the students at ASU's Barrett Honors College. We put on a lot of programs. We had 40 just this last spring semester and one of those programs was entitled Health, Wealth and Happiness. This was a program where we brought in experts in those areas. It was optional and open to the public, and it took place at Arizona's home of Broadway at ASU. Gammage And in response to our organizing a program on health, wealth and happiness, the faculty at the Honors College, not the students, but the faculty, led a national condemnation campaign to chill and suppress and intimidate our right to bring these speakers into campus. They attacked the speakers, our donors, myself, the Lewis Center. And it was really just an incredible response, given what we were trying to accomplish with this program. And then finally, a big part of the story is that the Honors College participated in the attempts to suppress this free speech, even despite ASU's very strong policies on free speech. So they took down our marketing. They tried to limit what the speakers were allowed to say. They wanted me to read a warning statement to the audience at my during my opening remarks, and that is directly incongruent with the robust free speech policies that ASU should be providing to all of those community. So I'm here today. I appreciate the invitation just to share my story of of what what happened to to folks that put on an event that was consistent with the intent of their of their center.Sam Stone: [00:03:59] Yeah. Not only consistent with the intent of their center but featuring some very well known national guests with high public profiles who have, you know, legitimately one of them were, for instance, talking about Robert Kiyosaki, who I consider a friend. Robert is clearly a very healthy man at his age, but he's also amassed a great deal of wealth by being a smart guy. Right.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:04:24] Who were the guests?Sam Stone: [00:04:26] So, yeah.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:04:27] So I think that's important.Sam Stone: [00:04:29] Go ahead, Anne.Ann Atkinson: [00:04:30] Yeah, we had we had the panel is a two hour program. 90 minutes was a panel on health, wealth and  two-hours happiness. We had Dr. Rajagopalan, who's a renowned heart transplant cardiologist on health. We had Robert Kiyosaki, obviously, you know who he is on Wealth and Dennis Prager on happiness. And then during opening remarks, I spoke,our donor, Tom Lewis, spoke. And Tom had invited Charlie Kirk to share remarks as well on happiness and human enlightenment.Sam Stone: [00:04:58] Well, and for folks who know them and on breaking battlegrounds here, we've had a chance. Obviously. Robert is a resident of Phoenix, so I've gotten to know him and a few other ways. But Dennis Prager has come on the program here. We've had a chance to meet him and talk with him. He's a happy guy. He lives a great life.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:05:17] But what was the criticism from the faculty? What were they so opposed to? I mean, these are speakers that have spoke in front of large and small audiences all over the country.Sam Stone: [00:05:30] All over the world.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:05:30] All over the world. That's right. I mean, what specifically were they so offended by?Ann Atkinson: [00:05:35] Well, and that's key here. So the 39 of the 47 faculty at the Honors College that signed the petition condemning the event claimed that the speakers focused primarily on on Dennis Prager and Charlie Kirk, but also on Robert Kiyosaki are purveyors of hate who have publicly attacked women, people of color, the LGBTQ community and institutions of our democracy. They decried ASU platforming and legitimizing and legitimating their views, describing Prager and Kirk as white nationalist provocateurs, antebellum slaveholder apologists. And they claim that these two would undermine the value of the democratic exchange by marginalizing the school's most vulnerable students. So the faculty decided they don't like these speakers. They proved their point by referencing media matters in their petition. Which Media Matters is a watchdog reporting organization that reports on conservatives. And they determined that the speak they don't the speech they don't like is hate speech, and therefore it's dangerous and unsafe for students.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:06:48] They're the ones I feel like that are a threat to democracy by shutting down free speech. But I think there's a big difference between describing and then actually pointing to. Actual things these speakers have done to justify their position. I mean very creative language used in describing why they were offended by these speakers, but I doubt they had specificity and could point to anything. Probably large, broad generalities, rather.Sam Stone: [00:07:15] Well, one of them was was Dennis Prager's criticism of George Soros, which which for those who aren't aware, is Jewish on Jewish violence. I don't know how you call that hate in any sense of the word.Ann Atkinson: [00:07:28] You know what's interesting, The faculty describe Prager and Kirk as white nationalist provocateurs, as I mentioned. But I also was pulled into a meeting with my leadership at the Honors College in an outside marketing firm and asked to defend what would stop the Lewis Center from inviting the KKK to campus. Because these speakers share some of the same values as the KKK. Now, the speakers that I invited. One is from Sri Lanka. Robert Kiyosaki is of Japanese descent and Dennis Prager is a religious Jew. Yeah. So I thought that these these claims not only from the faculty, but also in meetings with with leadership of the Honors College, were really surprising.Sam Stone: [00:08:12] Isn't it, to me? And I think one of the sort of fundamental problems underlying situations like this is the idea that students are harmed by hearing views that they might not agree with or that they might find offensive. Isn't that minimalizing these students? Isn't that marginalizing these students to to first intellectually marginalizing them, but second, emotionally marginalizing them that they're not smart enough to separate an intellectual discussion from an emotional reaction?Ann Atkinson: [00:08:50] That's a very important point. The faculty, by deeming this as hate speech and therefore dangerous and unsafe, are telling the students, we think it is our job to protect you from dangerous speech, when in fact, again, ASU is a big place. It welcomes all sorts of different ideas, and it's not our job as educators to tell anybody what what to think. It's to help them learn how to think. And I think that by characterizing this as dangerous hate speech by the faculty, using their classroom, teaching time and mandatory honors courses to these students, two freshmen, nonetheless, to condemn the program and say supporting this talk is dangerous, that I think they're really they're really insulting the students and undermining their intelligence.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:09:41] And if you mentioned that ASU has a very strong policy on free speech and they welcome free speech, how did the faculty members get away with this kind of conduct then? If you have ASU out there, you know, strongly supporting a multitude of different mechanisms of speech and and variety of guests.Ann Atkinson: [00:10:02] You know, I'm perplexed. You know, again, a university so celebrated for those policies that this is what happens. And that's that's why I'm telling the story. Right, is that by bringing in speakers that someone doesn't like, this has been the reaction from the faculty and the staff and leadership of the Honors College.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:10:21] But what's the president what's what's Crowe doing about it?Ann Atkinson: [00:10:25] I don't know. You know, I would I would love to know. I have a great amount of respect for him. I appreciated that when I took my concerns, all of these directly up to the very top and through all channels over the past several months that he took the time to respond and to encourage me and to schedule a meeting with the provost, Nancy Gonzales, so I could address these concerns with her. I don't I don't know what he's going to do. I'm sure he's well, I don't want to assume. But if if I were the president of a university here, I would be deeply troubled by the way that my community is undermining my vision.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:11:03] Yeah, but this isn't the first time they've struggled with this. We've had to pass legislation called free speech zones for our universities because they have struggled to to demonstrate that they actually have a very strong policy on free speech and care about a multitude of expressions and opinions.Sam Stone: [00:11:19] And this actually worries me, Michel, because ASU has been one of the better ones, not what I would say. Good. I don't think anyone has been great at defending free speech in the world of higher education lately, with a very few exceptions. But ASU has generally been better than most. And this is this kind of thing is very troubling. And we're seeing an increase in these incidents at ASU specifically.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:11:42] It's a slippery slope, and if it's not course corrected now, I don't see it stopping. So I'm very curious. And I believe, you know, Ann is as well to see what President Michael Crow does. It needs to he needs to have a strong, swift reaction and there needs to be clarity.Sam Stone: [00:11:59] Yeah, We're going to be coming back with more from Ann Atkinson talking about this this attack on free speech that continues in too much of our higher education establishment and happened here in Arizona at Arizona State University. We have about 35 40s before we go to break here. But obviously, Michelle, this is something that isn't going to go away. This is a battle that people need to fight. And I really appreciate people like Ann stepping up and not just meagerly moving on, because if you read a resume, folks, she's got an incredible resume, incredible background, and she could go on and do almost anything she wants to do And just, you know, that would be the easy route. Just quietly go away and let this happen. She has stood up. You're hearing it here. She's been on some other programs talking about this. It's important we have these discussions right now.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:12:52] Absolutely.Sam Stone: [00:12:53] Breaking battlegrounds. Back in just a moment. All right. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone and Michelle Ugenti-rita. Also in the studio with us today, Christina Ashcroft. As always, Jeremy in the booth, doing a fantastic job on all our audio fun. And Jamie here desperately hoping I won't force her on to camera or onto a microphone. She does all our digital work. So thank you to everyone who helps make this show possible. We're continuing on right now with more from Ann Atkinson, former executive director of the Lewis Center. We're talking about an incident where she helped arrange a program with some what are perceived as conservative leaning guests, talking about issues of health, wealth and happiness, and subsequently was terminated under some really sketchy conditions. And what was said about why they did it doesn't really match the reality. And I want to end to get into that. But also, she wasn't the only person who was damaged by this. So, Ann, what did the university say when when they terminated you and what are they doing here? Because because to me, some of their arguments just don't hold water.Ann Atkinson: [00:14:17] Well, a part of what the university said was true is that Tom Lewis canceled his donor agreement. That's true. That happened this spring. And since then, I had brought new donors to the Honors College, excited to continue the mission of the Lewis Center. So their interest and enthusiasm was based around the intent of the Lewis Center, and that included things like traditional American values, hard work, personal responsibility, civic duty, faith, family and community service, and also entrepreneurship, career success, happiness, personal finance and so on. But when I.Sam Stone: [00:14:55] None of that sounds bad to me, and to be honest with you, it sounds.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:14:58] Outrageous.Sam Stone: [00:14:59] Yeah.Ann Atkinson: [00:15:00] Well, I'll tell you what, that is the reason why I came to the Lewis Center and why I took a sabbatical from a great career in health care, real estate investment, and also a passion for the students. But that reason is why I think it's so important that we have something like that in higher education. And I was really excited to be able to deliver on the intent of the Lewis Center. Now, as executive director, my job is to fulfill the intent, including that language. So the dean of Barrett, who joined as the dean less than a year ago, expressed no interest. When I said, Look, I have new donors excited to continue this mission. I made that offer on multiple occasions. And then in my firing conversation or meeting on May 30th, when she told me this was purely a fiscal decision, I said it's not a fiscal decision because I'm telling you, I've brought new donors, a diversified group of funding to keep this program going so long as we keep our our normal and current intent. So that's the part of the story perhaps sees as a detail. But in the fact of it, that's everything. By the dean declining to maintain the intent, she dismantled the heart of what the Lewis Center is.Ann Atkinson: [00:16:16] And I got to say on that point in particular, they're talking about the message that, for instance, this event would send to students from from having these speakers there. Well, as I see it and tell me if you see it differently, but as I see it, what they did in using this excuse that it's the money, when you had already raised this, it's cowardice, what they're teaching their students cowardice because if they were being honest, they would come out and say, we just don't want to have a center with these philosophical foundations here. And that's an argument they're not willing to have. And so they took a route that teaches students well, you just lie when you want to get out of an uncomfortable conversation. You just lie your way out of it. Am I wrong about that?Ann Atkinson: [00:17:04] It's unfortunate, right? There's these donors were very excited to have that conversation and the dean wouldn't even have the conversation. So I think what this tells the students is that in the event you dare to represent values that differ from the prevailing orthodoxy, there will be consequences. And even with my meeting with with ASU leadership, the feedback I received was we allowed the speaker. But you then have to take the consequences. And that is to me profound because that is exactly what happened. So I think I think this sends the wrong message to the students. And further, the way that the Barrett faculty took these issues into the mandatory classes for honors freshmen, they're they're raised in an environment of fear and intimidation. Given the power dynamics of the faculty who controls things like grading and can grade objective topics like participation. So this this culture of the condemnation campaign really instilled a fear, a culture of fear in the students. I had students come up to me say, Anne, I really want to attend the Health Wealth and Happiness program, but I cannot be photographed at this. I cannot have my faculty member, my professor see that I attended this event and others were just outright afraid. They were afraid because their faculty, people that they trust that are their leaders that they've developed relationships with through their classes are telling them this is dangerous and they don't want to be associated with something that's dangerous. So it's giving the wrong message to students. And the students have probably also seen by by me speaking up that in the event you speak up, there will be consequences.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:18:50] Well, ASU Barrett College needs a consequence. And I think it starts with maybe an appropriation or a lack thereof. I mean, they feel like they can do this. That's that's my take away. They're not afraid. They're not afraid to have this negative press. They think it's going to they will weather it. They're not afraid of people speaking up, speaking out. And that's unfortunate because they get away with it way too often. And so we're probably going to they probably need to take it where it hurts, which is in the pocketbook, which is in their bottom line. I mean.Sam Stone: [00:19:23] Well, it's interesting because, you know, I think one of the problems is they don't care that much about the public funding they get anymore.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:19:30] Oh, yes, they do.Sam Stone: [00:19:32] Oh, they care about every.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:19:33] Dollar all.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:19:33] The time.Sam Stone: [00:19:34] About money. Oh, yeah.Sam Stone: [00:19:35] But but that is a standard tactic for every institution with public dollars. Right.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:19:40] If they didn't care.Sam Stone: [00:19:43] One of the things I think worries me is that they they put the ideology over the welfare of the students, including potential funding. Right. I mean, that's that's what you're saying here. What they're saying is, hey, we're not worried about any consequences. It's more important to us to keep students from hearing an opposing viewpoint than to concern ourselves with that sort of end.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:20:04] Right. Because they've never felt a consequence.Sam Stone: [00:20:07] Fair point. Ann one of the other elements of this I want to touch on is, is this didn't just impact you. We have about a minute and a half before we go to break. We can continue on in the next segment if you'd like. But but this actually had impact on on on at least one other person, right?Ann Atkinson: [00:20:23] Yes. The events operations manager at ASU, Gammage Lynn Blake, was responsible for organizing this event on behalf of the venue on behalf of ASU. Gammage and she received tremendous pushback. After our event, she told me that she was berated by ASU Gammage leadership for coordinating an event that did not align with the values of ASC. Gammage And she's also has said that the leadership of Gammage asked her why she brought a white supremacist to their venue. She was also fired.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:21:00] Which was the white supremacist. Again, it's hard to keep track of all of their insults.Ann Atkinson: [00:21:05] Is that maybe the the either the Japanese gentleman, the Sri Lankan gentleman or or the religious Jew? I don't I'm not sure.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:21:13] Incredible.Sam Stone: [00:21:14] This is these stories are just amazing. And the fact that a lot of folks in the country won't ever hear about it because the news is is very selective. Also as selective as colleges are and their chosen ideology these days. But I mean, I, I really appreciate you standing up to this and and coming out. We're going to be following this story as we continue. And we will post that op ed on Breaking Battlegrounds website and on our social media. Thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate having you. Breaking battlegrounds coming back in just a moment. All right. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds. This is Sam Stone in the studio today, Michelle Gente, Rita, Christina Kraut. Michelle, I really want to thank Anne for coming on and for being willing to talk about this, not just taking her firing quietly, which she could have done and would be in many ways the easy way out because she has a, you know, another option in her career where she can go back and probably make a lot more money than she's been making working at ASU. She was doing this for very good reasons. As you heard Michael Crow, the ASU president, he.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:22:38] Look.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:22:39] You can't be silent. And to your point that you made earlier on with Ann if this is how you really feel, then justify it. Yeah, you know, don't lie about it. Come out and say that. Yes, we're very particular about what ASU looks like they're condoning and and the perspective ideology we want to stand behind. This is not something we support.Sam Stone: [00:23:00] Yeah. I mean, come out and say I refuse. We refuse to have conservative speakers and thinkers on our campus or have our students exposed to them at any ASU venue. And then let's go ahead and have that argument. To me, it is very cowardly and disingenuous. And Michael Crow again continues. You know, first I think he's he's primarily a developer, not not a university leader. I think his major interest is in in business, not education. But secondly, I think this happens a lot because he's totally let this university get out of control. For folks who don't know critical race theory die. Asu is one of the national homes, the the sprouting institutions for this. And this has happened under Michael Crow's tenure. And a lot of Republicans in Arizona continue to hold a higher opinion of Crow than certainly I do. And part of it is they don't know that this goes on and they don't know what he's done and not done. I am this guy is an embarrassment at this point. And if we get a Republican governor in there in a couple of years, he needs to be gone.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:24:03] Well, this.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:24:03] Is an educational institution that's and we've lost sight of that. This is all it seems like. A lot of times it's about propaganda. It's about putting the university's heavy hand on how students think and believe and total contradiction in what a university should be and ought to be, which is, you know, a melting pot of ideas and opinions. So it's disconcerting. And look, I wanted to touch on the fact that we have to have legislation that sets up little, little zones of free speech that's hardly congruent with a university that says that they support and excel at free speech.Sam Stone: [00:24:44] You know, and I agree 100% it's free speech zones are an atrocity. They should never.Sam Stone: [00:24:53] That's.Sam Stone: [00:24:53] An absolute atrocity.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:24:54] Embarrassing.Sam Stone: [00:24:55] It's a it's public land that's all free speech zone. Right. The only free speech zone on the planet should be private property. And that just means you're not allowed to stand there while you say it. Go out in the road.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:25:05] Right? Right.Sam Stone: [00:25:06] That's what we're talking about here.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:25:08] But see, until they have a consequence, this is not going to change. And this isn't really an ASU predicament. This is happening all over the country. They are not afraid. So we're going to have to do something beyond just sharing the stories. I mean, they have to feel it. I think they have to feel it when it comes to their funding. That's the only thing they respond to is a former legislator. I can tell you that's the only thing they respond.Sam Stone: [00:25:35] To their funding and jobs. So Ron DeSantis in Florida has taken very strong steps, right? He has replaced the boards. He started firing and getting rid of the DEI departments and the professors behind them, and they're throwing an absolute fit. And every time he just says, I don't care. And he's right.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:25:53] Because that's where the public sentiment is with with someone doing what Ron DeSantis is doing, not the reverse. You have to you have to push back on these bullies and realize that they don't have the public.Sam Stone: [00:26:07] Yeah, I mean, one of the things, you know, if you're if you're talking about critical race theory in the confines of a class, right, and you're talking about it as an ideological pole and you're comparing it to others, that's a very appropriate thing for a university to do. But taking that one singular ideological pole and making it the guide star for your entire university, this is this is absolutely everything universities were designed not to do.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:26:36] That's exactly right. And it has to stop. So hopefully things like this bring larger attention and ASU and Michael Crow are on notice.Sam Stone: [00:26:48] Yeah. I mean, look, we're going to have to this is why local elections matter. This is why your state legislature, your all your state seats matter. It's not just about your taxes, although those are important, too. But at the end of the day, there really is this huge push to eliminate free speech in in educational settings and to limit it. Someone it was reading a case. We only have about 45 seconds here. We can come back to some of this in the podcast if we want. But you know, a school in Massachusetts disciplining, suspending a student for wearing a shirt that said two genders. Right.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:27:26] Read about that. Right.Sam Stone: [00:27:28] Like, okay, scientifically, that student's pretty much on.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:27:31] Point, right?Sam Stone: [00:27:32] You can argue in an ideological sense, but it's absolutely ridiculous what's going on in our educational system. And it starts at the universities. Absolutely. People have to step up to stop it. Do what DeSantis is doing. Folks breaking battlegrounds will be back with more in just a moment. We've got a fantastic returning guest, Mark Skousen coming up, and then we're going to be talking education. Christina's here. Gritting your teeth, her her progressive teeth. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone. Chuck Warren out of studio today. But in studio with us, the lovely Michelle Ugenti-rita and equally lovely Christina Ashcraft. Christina, thank you so much for joining us. We were going to have a mark Skousen on talking a little bit about Freedom Fest. Folks, if you haven't had a chance to check that out, go to Freedom Fest. I don't know if it's dot com or.org, probably both and it's a great time. I'm going to be there. So you can come to Freedom Fest and see me. Right.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:28:32] I think that should be the only motivation.Sam Stone: [00:28:34] That should be the.Sam Stone: [00:28:35] Absolute only motivation. I mean, I'm bringing, I'm bringing some other personalities along with me, but they don't matter.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:28:41] No, That's your team.Sam Stone: [00:28:42] That's right.Sam Stone: [00:28:43] So Christina has something interesting she's doing. She's a school board member at Ball School District. We've had her on to talk about that before. But I actually wanted to talk a little bit because one of our ongoing themes for a lot of our listeners has been AI.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:28:57] O.Sam Stone: [00:28:58] And we're talking about AI, Christina actually is, is much more involved than I would ever want to be in the tech world.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:29:07] And I'm still tangential.Sam Stone: [00:29:08] Yeah. She's she spends a lot of her time wrangling tech bros.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:29:13] Oh well it sounds like a weekend fun.Sam Stone: [00:29:16] It sounds like weekend fun. If I get a lasso and a barbed wire fence thrown in. So. But but Christina manages to do it. But she's also created a business. There's been a lot of talk about what AI is going to do to various areas of employment. One of those is writing.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:29:33] Exactly.Sam Stone: [00:29:34] You know, So, Christina, tell us a little bit about what you're doing. Is AI going to overtake human writing?Christina Eichelkraut: [00:29:41] I think it definitely has the potential to, but that doesn't necessarily render humans irrelevant. So as you know, my background, I spent nine years as a community print journalist and then I started a digital marketing company. So when AI and ChatGPT came out, a lot of the groups that I'm involved with with copywriting on LinkedIn were like, Oh my God, you know, because it's already an oversaturated market, you're already dealing with the perception that it's a hobby, not a skill that's not helpful. You know, there's a lot there already. So ChatGPT three comes in and people are like, Oh, you can get all this like quality content. But the fact of the matter is, the majority of my clients right now, I'm actually editing AI generated text and that's actually something. And I'm really marketing hard that, you know, I provide human generated content because a lot of what I do, even in the industrial and technical fields, is not going to be able to be done through autocomplete. So what I mean by that is what people don't understand about AI generated text is that it's using the corpus of knowledge from the past. It can only look past, not forward. So in certain things, if you're developing a new biomedical software, for example, or if you have a blog that's going to rely on emotional appeal for marketing to get users, to get buyers ChatGPT it doesn't use syntax well, it doesn't use colloquialisms well, and it certainly can only autocomplete things that are already known. So in industries, both industry and software where you're having innovation and it's new things looking forward and oftentimes that does lead to new etymology, new words, new you know, you'll have new like portmanteau words, things like that. It can't do that. It's going to autocomplete based on the past.Sam Stone: [00:31:16] So and see, Christina just used at least three words that no one else in the history of this program has ever used. Yeah.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:31:23] Yes. Grammarly is always telling me I use unique words, so I do think there are certain writing functions. There are certain boilerplate things where ChatGPT can be useful. I will point out there was a school district that sent out a condolence letter in another state about a student who died and then one of the parents ran it through one of the scanners and found out that it was a AI generated condolence letter. And this did not go over well. Wow. So, yeah, so, yeah, So so I do think this notion that like, you know, we're never going to need human writers, we're never going to need, you know, I think there's going to be more of a transition into it's going to be more editing than original writing. But again, if you're if you specialize, for example, in industrial disc grinding, right, and you're appealing to a military contractor and they need a very specific kind of steel disc grinding for their equipment, that's not something you're going to I don't care how good your prompt is, you're not going to get that from chat. Gpt three You need to have a human conveying that to another human. And then it's just true in terms of just innovation, things like that. There's new biomedical terminology because of some of the advancements being made right now in, in in prosthetic software. That's another great example.Sam Stone: [00:32:36] That's one of the things I really hadn't heard anyone put it that way. I mean, essentially between a software that can look backwards. Yes, but humans obviously can look forwards and at this point, ChatGPT can't do that. It is.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:32:51] Auto correct. People don't understand that. Now, there is a there is there's reason to believe, you know, ten, 20 years down the line, we're going to have neural networks that are advanced enough where you're going to have those associations. But as of right now, it is glorified autocorrect. Let us be clear that it is going from a corpus. How does ChatGPT happen? There are you know, you have tens of thousands of people in lower in developing countries like Nigeria, for example, and they literally have been spending the last 20 years doing very repetitive, very low paid work to do. You know, whenever you get that box that says, you know, click on every square that has a traffic light versions of that. So they might have to like stand back and take a picture of themselves in a motorcycle helmet and take a picture of themselves in a t shirt as opposed to a suit jacket. That's how these models learn, right? So it can only look backwards, right?Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:33:41] I saw a wonderful documentary that talked about this on Netflix, and that's exactly their point. Or individuals that were critiquing artificial intelligence and some of this stuff was that they can only do what's already been done. And so there's a handicap there in, you know, like Christine was saying, for particular industries where you need to write and talk about things that are going to happen and only a human can really contemplate that.Sam Stone: [00:34:07] And I've got to say, I know people have talked about AI getting to that point, but I'm not sure that's a point we actually want AI to get to. Is it?Christina Eichelkraut: [00:34:15] I think that's a question worth asking, right? So I did I wrote an article actually for my nonprofit that talks about this and it talks about the sociological impact of when you remove humans from human interaction. And we know from a variety of circumstances there's quantitative data of about this. There's qualitative data. The more you remove people from human reactions, the more you see a deterioration of human traits that include empathy, that include critical thinking. And I'm talking about and this is not high level, you know, high tier academic stuff. This is like if you're using the self-checkout at the grocery store, for example, as opposed to just saying hello to your checker. I have a checker that I have. He's my favorite checker at Safeway, and I know that his kids graduated college. I've been going to the Safeway for like five years. I go.Sam Stone: [00:35:01] Wait a minute, chat.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:35:02] Right, Like like, right. This is this is a human interaction. We're not besties. We don't hang out, you know, But, you know, yeah, you kind of like catch up on little tidbits about each other's lives. And there's a real underestimation of the importance of those interactions in terms of what that does to you as a human, as opposed to like scanning through a self-checkout.Sam Stone: [00:35:20] You know what's funny? A couple of days ago, there was a New York Post piece out about how disconnected and socially isolated Gen Z is because they grew up, you know, their education really got interrupted in the pandemic with digital learning, remote learning now remote work. And they were talking about this, and I read this whole piece and I'm like, Man, this is really tough. If you were writing those key years and you get to the end and they, you know, asking the experts, they're interviewing for this what the answer is. And the literal closing of this was, Oh, they're going to have to learn new ways to to communicate like an app. Oh.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:35:58] Yeah.Sam Stone: [00:35:59] I'm like a joke. What? Yeah, the answer.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:36:04] People are going to tolerate this, though. I mean, I think you're going to see people crave and look for opportunities to interact and you'll see businesses try to specify what kind of material they're getting, if it was AI generated versus human generated, if you will.Sam Stone: [00:36:19] You know, one thing. So I've as some folks may know, I've started doing a little bit of work with YRefy. And I actually got I need to do a sponsor read before we close out here about them because since they started sponsoring us, I started working with them and their office is a little bit hybrid between remote and in-person. And we've actually been having a lot of conversations like maybe what we need to start doing is scheduling some sort of office social hours, essentially where we're coming in and doing these various team and group building things, even if that's a little uncomfortable for people, just simply because otherwise you're missing so much of the interaction of office workers. I forgot, you know, in the days when I go in, there's a bunch of people in there. It's really fun to be able to go around. You have a bunch of coworkers, you can sit there and chat with. You have different conversations. You hear stories about lives that are totally unlike yours and you learn from them. You know, Man, that's so different than the isolated environment. A lot of days when I go in there and I'm one of only two people in that office and I'll be in there for 3 or 4 hours, it's it's quiet. It's sort of intimidating in that sense. I think we really need to focus right now on the discussion about AI and how it changes human interaction and maybe put some limits on it for that reason.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:37:46] I think they're definitely it's I think what we're going to have to do is I think you spoke to something and we I already have seen that push back at different you know, there's different advertising firms and other friends of mine in marketing where one thing they're doing now is like they will call up and they will say if part of their package includes web copy, they'll say like, you're not just going to have something chat GPT three because they're like, I'm not going to pay 700, 800, $1,000 a month to have you plug in a prompt that takes you 30s that I could do myself, right? And that's a valid point too. And syntax, tone, colloquialism, slang, like all of these things, they're valid and ChatGPT is getting very good at them. But I think there's a there is a place for ChatGPT. There's a lot of places where it eliminates potential for human error, certain programming, certain, you know, certain boilerplate things are fine. But I, I think this notion of simply absconding humanity just because we can is, is perhaps folly. I don't think that's necessarily going to lead to any good outcomes for anybody.Sam Stone: [00:38:46] Christine, are we having enough conversations? Is the tech world because you're close to this than. I'm not that.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:38:51] Close to it, but.Sam Stone: [00:38:52] Yeah, but you're a lot closer.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:38:53] I'm tech adjacent at best. I'm tech adjacent at best.Sam Stone: [00:38:57] That's better. That's better than tech distance. Like me, I still struggle to turn on an iPhone.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:39:05] So let's. You're getting there, though. I saw you try to turn it on this morning.Sam Stone: [00:39:10] I was working on it, but I haven't gotten it yet. I figured now that I'm here with Jamie, I just hand it to her and she can do it. Yeah. No, but. But are the are the discussions about the morality, about the how far I should go. Are those happening?Christina Eichelkraut: [00:39:30] Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think so. 100%. Yeah. There. Yeah. That's absolutely happening. I don't think it's I think there are a lot of people who actually understand how this technology works and understands where it is, and they're not thrilled about the public perception of it. It's like the public is perceiving a Ferrari when what we have is like a very souped up Impala, right? That does have power seats and does have power windows and it's very good, but it is not a Ferrari. And you have kind of like this public perception of like, you know, let's all get in the Ferrari. So I think there are definite concerns about that and I think there are a lot of of concerns. I am I will say one thing about the tech industry as a whole that that I just really kind of grinds my gears is you have all these leaders now and all these developers of AI that now that the genie is out of the bottle and this is a tradition in tech going back to Oppenheimer and the A-bomb right now that the genie is out of the bottle and we're already here, they're going to sign a letter and they're going to talk about, oh, we're really worried now. And it's like, well, you know, you could have put that in your research paper prior to releasing this.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:40:36] And there's discussions to be had about open source technology versus proprietary. What is this going to do in terms of access? If you have countries where you don't even have Internet access, how are we exacerbated the disparity in terms of access to tech and how does that exacerbate the detrimental consequences of that disparity? That's another conversation to be had. It's like anything, you can't take something as general as all morals and apply it to all tech in all situations, because there are plenty of situations where this is going to be great. It's going to help people, it's going to further us, it's going to bring us forward. Right? There's going to be plenty of situations where it does the exact opposite, but the sociological component in terms of what it's doing to us as humans, as just, you know, the warm, fuzzy, soft science stuff that people are so quick to dismiss nowadays with, you know, bowing to the altar of Stem. It's that needs to happen. It's that t shirt. This all comes down to the t shirt that says science will tell you how to bring back the T rex. The humanities will tell you why it's not a good idea. It is that t shirt. Everything comes back down to that like a.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:41:34] T shirt theme. And the other one, the other t shirt you brought up that the student wore that said, There's two genders, right? It's all about that t shirt too, right?Sam Stone: [00:41:42] Yeah. No, I mean, that's actually it's really interesting to me because a lot of these conversations are not happening the way they need to be happening at the highest levels right now. And one of the things with tech is and you served in the Arizona legislature, you know how many people there are really tech proficient.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:42:00] No one.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:42:01] Nobody. Nobody. Nobody. How many.Sam Stone: [00:42:04] In Washington, Christina, do you think are.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:42:06] Going to say I'm going to excuse me. I'm going to say Senate. I'm going I'm going to say Lindsey Epstein. Actually, she she knows what she's about.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:42:13] Is she a Democrat? Because then.Michelle Ugenti- Rita: [00:42:14] She doesn't.Christina Eichelkraut: [00:42:15] She she knows she knows what she's about. When it comes to tech folks.Sam Stone: [00:42:19] You heard it here. But do check out our friends at invest y refy.com invest y refy.com. You can help somebody who has a default student loan, get their life back on track, reduce their payment and you can make a fantastic profit up to 10.25% APR while they do it. That's a deal you can't pass up. It's the ultimate form of capitalism. One person with a need, one person with an opportunity. Give them a call at 88835 24 or again, log in to invest y refy.com. Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, Sam and Chuck are joined by friend of the show and former Fox News executive Ken LaCorte. Ken is also the host of the Elephants in Rooms podcast. -Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds-TranscriptionSam Stone: [00:00:11] Welcome to another episode of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone on the line with us today, returning guest and friend of the program, Ken Lacourt. Ken is the host of Elephant in the Room, a fantastic podcast. I highly encourage all of you to check it out. He writes about censorship, media malfeasance, which gives him lots of materials these days. Uncomfortable questions and honest insight for people curious how the world really works, which too often isn't the media these days, is it? Ken? And thank you for joining us. Welcome to the program.Ken LaCourt: [00:00:47] Oh, thanks for having me on again, guys.Chuck Warren: [00:00:48] So I want to talk about a poll that came out today by USA Today on the third party candidate. But the Republicans are elephants, Democrats are donkeys. What would be the animal ascribed to the third party movements? Anyone know you asking me that? Yeah. What should it be? What should it be? They need an animal. I mean, we've got elephants, Republicans, donkeys, Democrats. What? I don't.Sam Stone: [00:01:10] Know. Porcupine. Keep everyone the heck away.Ken LaCourt: [00:01:12] Yeah, and Porcupine used to be. Didn't that used to be a GOP thing from years and years back or.Sam Stone: [00:01:17] It was. Yeah. No. Yeah.Ken LaCourt: [00:01:19] A Whig thing. That wouldn't be too bad. You know, the problem is it'd have to be the disappearing cat. Because as much as we always see a poll out there like that and I mean, look, it's hard to, to bypass the fact that the top two nominees, the top two likely nominees right now, both have about a 33% approval rating in national national polls.Sam Stone: [00:01:41] I saw that in some polling yesterday, Chuck. And I was astounded at how much the country hates both Biden and Trump.Chuck Warren: [00:01:48] Yeah, they're done. So there's a poll that came out today by USA Today. It's done over the fifth and 9th of June and it shows 2024 national general election. Biden 34%, Trump 32, third party, 23. And then another one, Biden 33%. Desantis 26. Third party, 25. Desantis. Just people aren't familiar yet. I mean, I think his numbers are probably the same as Trump. I think he could do better. But so I looked it up and the same time in June in 1992, had Perot at 36%, George Herbert Walker Bush at 30%, and Bill Clinton at 26%. We just recycle. Well.Sam Stone: [00:02:26] Perot was, you know, as much as as much as the media glommed on. I remember that campaign pretty vividly. The media really glommed on Perot. He had a lot to say that was outside of the mainstream of both parties. I think you get a little of that with Vivek Ramaswami, but for the most part, you don't know.Chuck Warren: [00:02:44] So so, Ken, the question is, what do you think? What is the what is the ceiling for a third party candidate in the 2024 general election, do you think?Ken LaCourt: [00:02:53] I think that the the real ceiling is zero because the ceiling in running for president isn't isn't whether you can get 5 or 10% of the votes and and Perot probably got a little bit under he ran twice he probably got a little bit under 20% in 92. And neither time did he get one single vote in the Electoral College. Right. So it a third party is fun to talk about. The system is not designed for that or it's certainly not designed to have one when as we have it shaped right now. And look, the only thing Republicans and Democrats agree on is that either a Republican or a Democrat should be running the country. I mean, they have complete unanimity on that and they design all the rules to help bolster that. So I think any third party candidate, you'd have to look at who is he or she going to take votes away from as opposed to, oh, could this person get elected? It really just doesn't go beyond that.Chuck Warren: [00:03:49] Well, I see. I think Cornel West attempting to get the Green Party nomination could play some havoc in cities like Milwaukee, in Atlanta. Would you would you agree on that?Ken LaCourt: [00:04:01] Yeah. Look, if you can get I mean, look, the trick to putting a third party or having a third party person run where it helps you out is get somebody who you think would siphon votes from your opponent anywhere. So I've seen, for instance, in a in a statewide race in in Hawaii where a green candidate won, siphoned off a decent amount of votes from the Democrat, and it gave a Republican, you know, a chance to win a race in a very, very blue state. So, yeah, certainly I think in any close states, if you said, wow, here is a look, a popular libertarian will pull votes from the Republican. A popular green will pull votes from the Democrats.Chuck Warren: [00:04:43] Agree. All right. Let's talk about CNN. Cnn seems to be I know everybody likes to focus on Fox, but CNN has its own share of problems right now. Tell us a little about our audience, a little bit about that can and what's going on there and what do you foresee for CNN's future?Ken LaCourt: [00:04:59] Well, you know, CNN started this whole game. I mean, right. I mean, I worked at Fox for 20 years. I might not have had that job if it wasn't for Ted Turner and him saying, hey, I got a crazy idea. Let's go. 24 seven with news and they had a monopoly for a very long time. And of course you do well when you have a monopoly, right? We came in, MSNBC came in, and CNN kind of tried to you know, they were always leaning left, but they weren't like hard core left like they've become in the last five, five, seven, ten years, really, five, seven years. So as that as kind of Americans got a little bit more polarized as the media started getting more polarized, they found themselves in a bad position. Msnbc was was pulling in the hard core Dems, Fox News was pulling in conservatives, and they kept diminishing in the Trump years. Cnn did great. I mean, it's like, you know, people rage. Watch Donald Trump and that helps ratings. It helps money. It helps all sorts of things. I mean, you know, the Never Trumpers, you know, the professional never Trumpers out there.Ken LaCourt: [00:06:02] They're praying that he runs again. So they did okay during that. But then when he you know, then when he was off the stage, their numbers just went in the toilet. And I mean, you know, people are saying, my gosh, Fox News numbers are down after the whole Tucker thing. And they're right. But I looked at the numbers yesterday, the lowest rated original show, not repeat, but the lowest rated show on Fox News is Trace Gallagher Show because it's on at midnight, midnight Eastern, Trace Gallagher's lowest rated show beat every single hour of CNN during the day, every one of their prime time shows just, you know, it towered over all of those. So CNN has a ratings problem, but they're still making money. I mean, that's another dirty secret is is they're probably they're probably profiting a billion bucks a year even with those crappy ratings. So, you know, but look, they've become they've become like what people always accused Fox of. They've become you know, they're not fair and balanced journalists. They are hard.Sam Stone: [00:07:01] It's an ideological echo.Ken LaCourt: [00:07:02] Chamber, ideological driven thing. So the new the new guy went in and said that he had the support of David Zaslav, who is the is the chairman or CEO of Discovery, which owns that, but he's also a corporate guy who's not going to you know, these guys look out for themselves before they look out for anything else. So Chris Licht went and was told to, you know, make it more moderate. Let's go back to getting kind of both sides in. Let's not be a hard core. Let's even if it costs us a little bit of ratings and money in the meantime, let's do this. Well, he did that and tried that. Really, he did more talking about it than actually accomplishing something. And all the lefties and all the lefties at CNN, which is 90% of the staff, freaked the hell out. And how could he do this and how could he do that? And it was a drama, you know, And then he stupidly lets a, you know, a mainstream reporter walk around and follow him for two weeks with a tape recorder recording every single stupid thing he says. And that was kind of the final, don't you?Chuck Warren: [00:08:00] Don't you find don't you find that I find that interesting. He did that. And you find this with candidates a lot. They always just think they're smarter than the person following them with a tape recorder.Ken LaCourt: [00:08:09] You know, it never works. Never, never. And, you know, part of it is these people are because I just did a longer one on that. It wasn't about me, although then it turned out to be me by some scumbag reporter. And they're they're nice people. They're engaging, they're smart. You have like, good intellectual conversations with them and you think that it's going along okay, and then they get their, you know, their 50 hours of tape and say, okay, where did this guy say something that I can twist into making it look like he's a whatever ist? Or if there is these days he's a racist, he's a homophobic, he's a this, he's a that.Sam Stone: [00:08:45] Looking at it.Ken LaCourt: [00:08:46] That's what their game.Sam Stone: [00:08:47] Looking at it from the outside. I really felt like Licht and Donald Trump essentially made the same mistake, which is they didn't realize how deeply they had to clean house on day one to have any chance at all. I think he had a lot of arrogant mistakes. He clearly overestimated himself. But start right there. Well, look, it's.Chuck Warren: [00:09:05] The same problem. You know, Republicans now, their big thing is we're going to move FBI out of DC. We're going to clean up the Department of Justice. The problem is you can't clean up any of these unless you have a wholesale cleaning out of the house, because when you still leave people behind, they have their loyalties. Am I wrong on that, Ken?Ken LaCourt: [00:09:21] No, you're absolutely right. And what you it's more difficult to do in the federal government because you can't just fire everybody at the Doe. You you can only you can only affect the handful of top politically appointed jobs and everybody else is protected. Look, when the when the Murdochs took over Fox and they did this to the Wall Street Journal and they've done this, they went about very quickly in changing the corporate culture. And that's why Fox is kind of wussy these days. So what does that mean? Well, part of it is they with The Wall Street Journal, they physically moved the company. You used to have offices here. Now you have offices down the street. And that just it signals to everybody this is a different place. This is a different you know, it's all different. Well, at Fox, they did the same thing. They didn't move them physically. But like Roger Ailes office doesn't exist anymore. The entire second floor where all the executive. Fox is now a newsroom. So they just gutted it, made all of the trappings of the past gone and they and they redid it. Second thing is, is you go in and you take over. And this is why so many companies are are so woke around the world or the country at least is you take over the HR department and you get them doing different things and you get them treating treating people differently and instilling whatever values you try to bring in there. So Fox News now and this just came out is you know they've got they get pride month and and you know trans trans crossword puzzles for the employees I mean there's all sorts of just kind of like you're really going on at Fox. So they needed to change that corporate culture and said he went out and talked about doing it and then just it just it just bounced off. But look, this is a this is a guy who'd never really run anything larger than a show. So even if he kind of had good editorial chops, he probably didn't have deep management chops.Chuck Warren: [00:11:11] Well, and and again, it's one of these things and this this story as old as time. You know, he comes in, you have the owner of it, Time Warner, say, you have our support. You do what you need to do. You have our support. So he goes in, like you said, he doesn't have experience. He's fumbling through it, but he's making changes. The powers that be that stayed are hairs up on the back of their neck. And guess what? Time Warner said, Oh, no, it's just too much disruption. We can't do it. And that's why things don't change.Sam Stone: [00:11:39] He also had, to me, a fatal flaw in that he wanted, as most people do, he wanted to be liked. Yeah. And coming into that job, you can't consider that.Chuck Warren: [00:11:49] No, no. The Roger. The Roger Ailes cared if he was liked or not.Ken LaCourt: [00:11:53] They used to joke that that, you know, Republicans never get invited to parties in New York City and he just didn't care. But that's but that's really that's really important to be liked by. He wanted to be liked by Rupert Murdoch. And he was always very clear. He's like, Rupert doesn't keep me around because he really likes me. He likes me because I hit my numbers every quarter.Chuck Warren: [00:12:14] And which is which is business. Which is business, right?Ken LaCourt: [00:12:18] They look, if they really wanted to make those changes, they should have told Chris to go in, do some wholesale firings. You know, he did a couple of little shiftings. It's like we take Don Lemon and we put him in the morning show and it's like, well, you got rid of the fat kid, Brian Stelter.Chuck Warren: [00:12:32] It's like it's like the guy in the subway, red cups. I mean, he.Sam Stone: [00:12:34] Was like the easiest. Stelter was like the easiest guy in the world to fire. Folks. We're going to be coming back with more in just a moment. Breaking battlegrounds. Be sure to go to breaking battlegrounds, vote. Download all of our past episodes. You can check those out there. We're on Substack, Spotify, all the various places, Apple Podcasts, everywhere you get your podcasts, breaking battlegrounds is there. And we're back in a moment. Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Hey, folks, are you looking for a great way to earn a fantastic return on your money and actually do good by doing well for yourself? You need to check out investyrefycom that's invest the letter y then refy.com? They are taking distressed student loans. They're refinancing them. You can actually invest in what they're doing. You can earn up to a 10.25% fixed annual rate of return and you're helping a student get out of debt, get their credit back online. This is the the most basic form of capitalism. One person with a need, another person with an opportunity coming together to help each other. So check out investyrefy.com or give them a call at 888 y Refy 24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you.Chuck Warren: [00:13:52] Can I want to ask a question here? If you were running any Republican opponent in the primary against Donald Trump, what is the message you would be selling to people or is there a message that would even work? Do you think?Ken LaCourt: [00:14:06] That's a tough one? I actually think that the DeSantis is. I'm not sure if his delivery is as good as it needs to be for him to really rise and be a captivating and charismatic candidate. But I think the concept but but I think his overall platform is good, which is I did stuff I didn't just sit out and give a speech on here and complain about something. I actually made the government work for us. And whether that was in changing some of the education things, both in keeping keeping, you know, gay gay salutes to the flags out of third grade classes. What did that he made some changes on the on the on the one what was it the one institution that they had that was a college that they had where he changed some things around. Right.Sam Stone: [00:14:54] He's the University of South Florida, I think it was. Yeah.Ken LaCourt: [00:14:58] So I think that that's actually a good thing because, you know, a decent comeback to Trump is, you know, you set a lot of great things, but the wall ain't there. And Omarosa didn't change whatever agency she was trying to do. And you fired half of your staff and hate them all. And, you know, you have good ideas and you're solid for that. But let's start winning. And you haven't done that except for one election. And that that concept, I think, you know, Republican, you could go to Republicans and say if you really want to upset Washington, elect somebody who can not only win the next campaign, but actually institute what they believe.Chuck Warren: [00:15:36] Exactly.Ken LaCourt: [00:15:37] That's not a terrible that's not a terrible.Chuck Warren: [00:15:39] No. Yeah, the proof's in the pudding type thing. All right. Let's talk quickly here. The one thing that really put DeSantis on the map is how he handled Covid. Now, you know, Jack Kemp, Governor Kemp did the same thing, but not quite with the fanfare. Ron was a little more in-your-face about it.Sam Stone: [00:15:55] In fairness, Ron was further out front of him. He kind of broke the trail. But him and Christie Noem.Chuck Warren: [00:16:01] Yeah, Kemp Kemp will argue with that. But my point is on the so Covid really was what put him on the map in a lot of ways. And there's a new book out by the Institute for Economic Affairs in London called Title Did Lockdowns Work The Verdict on Covid restrictions? And it is a slap against the government bureaucracy, against government health organizations. The quote from the book says, When it comes to Covid, models have many things in common dubious assumptions, hair raising predictions of disaster that miss the mark and few lessons learned. The science of lockdowns is clear. The data the data is in the life saved were a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering collateral cost imposed. And they say, for example, Neil Ferguson's infamous Imperial College of London model predicted lockdowns would avoid 1.7 to 2.1 million Covid deaths. The study actually finds that it reduced Covid deaths from 4300 to 15,000. Do you think being in the news business, how do you think they should have handled it? Now I get the first two weeks, all hell is breaking loose, right? They don't know. Right. But what do you think they should have done after a month or two months in the news business and handling Covid because they just didn't know It was like a moving target all the time and they weren't honest about it.Ken LaCourt: [00:17:16] On the news side or on the government.Chuck Warren: [00:17:17] Side? Both. Let's do news first. What you're really familiar with.Ken LaCourt: [00:17:21] Well, I mean. You know, news likes to scare you. Yes. And they don't sit around in their meetings and say that say, oh, how do we how do we frighten people from going from sending their kids to school? Because there was a school shooter here. They don't talk or even think in those ways, but it just kind of has the same effect. They sit around and say, what's a what's a oh, that's a very, very interesting story. Oh, that scares me. So part of it is that baked into their model is scaring the heck out of you look. But what was so on on on this was it just got caught up in. Trump Yes. Trump No, I mean, if you tell me who you voted for, I could tell you what you think about hydroxychloroquine or any of these pills. And the media was just as bad. So I think that they brought their banner. Trump doesn't wear a mask. He's a murderer mask. You know, everybody has to have a mask. Stay home. And I think that that that politics kind of override all of that. And if somebody would have had the.Ken LaCourt: [00:18:24] The.Ken LaCourt: [00:18:26] Time and the attitude to kind of be in the center on that. But I tell you, it is hard to win in the cable news game or the or the news game in general being a a centrist. Fair and balanced type person. That's not the stuff that people share. It's not what they want to watch. They don't want to watch the news shows. They want to watch Sean Hannity or Rachel Maddow kicking the other side in the teeth. And it's easy to blame the media, but the media is reflecting what we click on and what we turn on.Chuck Warren: [00:18:56] I'm thinking I'm going to make a I have a perfect example. So I was in DC this week and met with a friend who he used to play in the NHL. He's been the national marketing person for Adidas. I mean, he's a man about town, right? And we were there for these Icahn conferences and he was just talking about how disappointed he was on the news, not being more balanced and things of that nature. And then everything he fed me was from a MoveOn.org email. I mean, everything was so extreme. But in his mind, I'm being fair and balanced. There's just these crazy people. And like, he wouldn't even acknowledge that why we have our nut jobs on the right side. The left has more than their fair share as well. Actually, there are studies that show left wing activists are basically nuts and narcissists, right? I mean, there's actually studies on it. But he just didn't want to realize that fact. And you're right. So they they sell what they think is reasonable, but it's really just feeding what they already believe or want to believe.Ken LaCourt: [00:19:55] Yeah, I mean, that's that's what we click. That's what we share. That's what we talk about with our spouses when we get home. And it's a it's a model that is is not helping us overall, but it's kind of hard to point to the bad people in it.Sam Stone: [00:20:09] Guys. I you know, I actually think it was a little more nefarious than that with Covid because you clearly have this really deep connection between the two leading news agencies from which all other news agencies get their information. The Washington Post and The New York Times, with federal high level officials at a handful of federal agencies. And I really felt like they were playing this game where they were trying on the federal end to manipulate Donald Trump and then attack him for everything they were manipulating him into doing. I mean, call me a conspiracy theorist for that, but I really think the entire Covid narrative came is what it is and was what it was because they were trying to get rid of Donald Trump.Ken LaCourt: [00:20:55] Yeah, it's hard to kind of read people's hearts at a certain point. I can say that when I sit in political meetings on the left or the right, I see more people just wrongly, How do I say I see less nefariousness and more like people convincing themselves that they are saving lives, for instance, in this debate. So I suspect when you go in there, it's like, you know, when Trump doesn't wear a mask, he's killing people. Yeah, he's a murderer. Stop this. We got to do this. So, you know, it's usually easier and it's to say, well, they're probably all, you know, Soros types. And I don't want to I don't want to act like that doesn't exist there. I usually find that I usually find that people they they fool themselves into into thinking that they're going after the greater good, even if even if they're wrong.Sam Stone: [00:21:43] And we'll be coming back with more breaking battlegrounds in just a moment here. And more from Ken Lacourt. Folks, be sure to check out his podcast, Elephant in the Room, Breaking Battlegrounds. Back with more in just a moment. Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. On the line with us right now, media expert Ken LeCourt. Check him out at Elephant in the Room, his fantastic podcast.Chuck Warren: [00:22:15] Ken, UFOs, are they real?Ken LaCourt: [00:22:20] You know, I don't know. But up until two weeks ago, I would have said, yeah, look, there may be other life and there probably is other life in other planets, but but not here. And you know, every person who's talking about UFOs, you know, they don't really look like the most intelligent person. And when they've done talking about UFOs, then they tell me about, you know, the Jews brought down the Twin Towers. And I started hearing all sorts of crazy conspiracies. But some weird stuff is going on. And the biggest thing is some news that has been just really ignored in almost all the mainstream press. And it's that a fairly high level national security, defense, intelligence guy who worked on some of this stuff came out with some just crazy concept saying, eh, that the United States has multiple alien crafts in its possession and is reverse engineering and has this stuff out there. So that was the essence of his claim. And you normally just say, forget it. But this was a guy who had the, you know, a GS 15 clearance who has has serious, serious people saying you should listen to this guy because he's he's real like a general and the former head scientist at at at one of our one of our top agencies he filed a whistleblower complaint, a complaint that he actually helped write the law for for UFO whistleblowers, which they now call UAP, unidentified aerial phenomena.Ken LaCourt: [00:23:52] And you can't dismiss him as a nut. Now, maybe he just took a whole a whole lifetime of being a serious guy and having high level government security clearances and whatnot, and just decided to lie and sell some books going on, although he may go to jail if that's the case, because he's given some specific testimony to Congress and he's going back and they're they're they've announced that they'll have some House oversight hearings on this. And he alleges that basically parts of the government and private industry really, really like that. It's kept at some of these these large defense contractors have been misleading the government have been lying about how they're spending money. And that's the basis of his of his of his whistle whistleblower lawsuit. Well, not a.Sam Stone: [00:24:37] Lawsuit, Ken. One thing that made me believe him more when this came out is the admission. You know, if you go back in 2020, the Air Force admitted that they've had numerous encounters with what they identified as uaps, unidentified aerial phenomenon aircraft or some type of craft moving in ways that atmospheric flight craft cannot move. Right. And they actually put out some of those videos. And then here you have this guy coming along with testimony from a slightly different agency and angle, but it's certainly not contradictory information. So yeah, I'm putting on the tinfoil on this one.Ken LaCourt: [00:25:16] And and yeah, it's kind of weird. It's just, you know, to have your mind kind of ripped into two two directions, neither of which should be true or should be believable without with our current understanding of life. But yeah, look, NASA, NASA held a hearing two weeks ago where they showed some of that some of those footage of metal spheres that are flying through the air and doing weird things and they're like, We have these on visual, we have these on on radar, we have these on multiple sensor type of systems. So we don't think it's, you know, we think that these things are actually real and we really can't explain it. And then it puts so many past guys that you said, Oh, he was a nut, he's a nut. She's a nut into into a little bit better perspective. It makes you scratch your head.Chuck Warren: [00:26:00] There's some there's some ponytail guy in a trailer in Nevada and Northern California saying, I told everybody I was right. I told everybody I was right.Sam Stone: [00:26:07] If resurrection is real, we need someone to pull Art Bell out of the ground right now.Chuck Warren: [00:26:11] By the way, I want to bring up something funny that just cracks me up. So the S&P global to the London Stock Exchange. Tobacco companies are crushing Tesla and the ESG ratings. I mean, is this ESG the biggest joke around or what?Ken LaCourt: [00:26:27] It's a it's a scam. It's a scam, and it's from A to Z.Chuck Warren: [00:26:32] I mean I mean, the left hates Elon Musk and he's made what they want a reality efficient electric vehicles. And he has a lower rating than tobacco companies. I mean, are we that crazy?Chuck Warren: [00:26:45] I mean, those poor.Chuck Warren: [00:26:46] Guys in the trailers.Ken LaCourt: [00:26:47] Hitler was a vegan. I mean, they they've got a problem because they and I live right outside of San Francisco. You know, they love this guy. Up until about six months ago when he started doing things they didn't like. It's been funny to watch him go from from oh, my gosh. Ellen is is the ideal man, too. He's a mega nut job. It's been hilarious.Sam Stone: [00:27:08] Can we have just one minute left? Tell folks how they can stay in touch and follow and support all your great work.Ken LaCourt: [00:27:15] So best thing is YouTube. Elephants in rooms I put together. Look, I'm a huge believer that there are just so many conversations, like some of what we've had right here that you're just not supposed to have. And we should. And whether it's, you know, a lot of that is race based, a lot of that is just is is things that you're not supposed to say aloud, but it actually hurts people in the long run if you don't. So elephants in rooms Lacourt and you can find.Chuck Warren: [00:27:44] Me on there. Ken, let's get you out to Arizona. Have you in the studio?Ken LaCourt: [00:27:47] I'd love to. My daughter lives up up in Prescott, so I'd love to beat it.Chuck Warren: [00:27:50] Get on out here. Thanks a lot, buddy. All right, guys.Sam Stone: [00:28:04] Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren and Sam Stone. We want to thank Ken Lacourt for the fantastic interview today. Really appreciate having him on there. Folks, make sure you catch up with his podcast, Elephant in the Room also, but be sure to download ours as well. Go on Substack Spotify. Go to our website Breaking battlegrounds. Upvote You can find all our past episodes there. Fantastic opportunity for you to stay informed about things that are happening in the world and the unique insights from some of our fantastic guests. While you're doing that, maybe think a little bit about your financial future and considering investing with refi. Why? Refi is a due diligence approved firm. You can earn up to a 10.25% fixed rate of return. That's right. 10.25%. Just go to investyrefy.com. That's the letter. That's invest the letter y, then refyfy.com or give them a call at 888Yrefy 24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you.Chuck Warren: [00:29:01] Well, what, uh, what a pleasure to have Ken on a little bit longer format today. He's always interesting and keeps up on the news and I enjoy his newsletter. It's succinct. He I think he and Eric Erickson do a fantastic job summarizing just some of the highlights of the day and, you know, provide a link to the article. And it's great.Sam Stone: [00:29:22] Reading. I think he's he's one of those sources that if you're looking for honest news in the world, it's a great place to elephant in the room is a great place to go start with, you know, the stuff that's not going to get covered on CNN or at least not be covered fairly and honestly, Chuck, I love the longer format with guests. I like having kind of a little bit more time for these interviews so we can flesh out the discussion a little.Chuck Warren: [00:29:46] Well, it's funny, when I was in DC this week, I got in yesterday, I was meeting with some communications press secretaries for congressmen, and they were excited that we do longer than five minute interviews like you do 20, 30 minutes and they call that long format. And I, I don't view it as long format, but they do.Sam Stone: [00:30:04] I got to tell you, I actually always feel rushed because there's so much good information that we're getting from our guests. I agree.Chuck Warren: [00:30:11] I mean, especially Congressman Dunn, that you had on. I mean, you could have been a whole hour with him.Sam Stone: [00:30:16] I would love to have done the whole hour with him. And that, folks, by the way, if you're listening to this on one of the Salem radio networks, call into your local station and tell them if you're getting in this on a podcast, call your local station. Tell them you want to have breaking battlegrounds on the air and tell them you want us to be on for two hours. I mean, if they're going to put us on there for two hours, we'll be here for two hours talking to you and we'll be talking to some fantastic guests doing it.Chuck Warren: [00:30:39] So a couple of topics I want to discuss that we did not discuss with Ken. Let's first talk about something regarding Arizona. There is a new measure to put an initiative on the ballot regarding public transportation Folks, What we have currently, and I think it's been around, what, a decade or two, so.Sam Stone: [00:30:54] Actually 40 years now.Chuck Warren: [00:30:56] 40 years. We have a half a cent sales tax, a half.Sam Stone: [00:30:58] A cent sales.Chuck Warren: [00:30:59] Tax to transportation, which in a lot of ways, if you're believe in federalism and state rights, you know, the state should cover their highways and their transportation. Right? And Sam, maybe I'm wrong. I know you follow this much more closely than I do. What we have is they have language they want to put on the ballot. And Katie Hobbs. Wants more for light rail.Sam Stone: [00:31:24] Basically, yeah. So, so this is really interesting. And I know folks, if you're listening out there in another state, you might think, Hey, this doesn't really apply to me. They're just talking about Arizona. But no, this is a discussion that's happening in every state and every city. Every county right now is what does the future of transportation look like? And so we've had this sales tax on the books. It's actually been it was originally put on the books in 1985, and the reasoning was for the expansion of the I-10 and I-17 corridors and for some of our rural state highways. And it did a very nice job of that. 20 years later, the tax was extended by voters. Now it's up again. Now, each time it's been put up, it's been promised to sunset at the end of its 20 year run. And obviously that's not happening. But but there's a really interesting battle going on here right now between the governor and MAG, which is the Maricopa Association of Governments, which is a very left leaning sort of overarching entity that, quite frankly, I don't think should ever been created. But the battle is entirely over, not extending the tax. Everyone has agreed to do that. The battle is over how that money gets spent. Republicans want to spend the you know, they're fine with adding buses and bus rapid transit, but they don't want to expand light rail and they don't want to do something else. That's in the MAG version very specifically. And folks, when folks when people on the left are prescribing transit these days, it's not just light rail, it's not just trains. People tend to like trains, um, for for some really bad reasons, quite frankly. But they do.Chuck Warren: [00:32:59] And if you haven't seen the Modern Family episode on trains, please look it up. Yeah.Sam Stone: [00:33:03] No, that's exactly that's exactly right. I will try to attach that on the end of this thing here if you go to our website. But, but what they don't like is road diets and.Chuck Warren: [00:33:12] And explain to people what a road diet is.Sam Stone: [00:33:14] So a road diet is a prescription that any major arteries if they are two or more travel lanes in each direction, they're going to take a lane away from the from vehicle travel in each direction and replace it with. Again, it sounds really good multimodal multi-use path, right? What that means is a bike path that's going to be empty 99% of the time and a bigger detached sidewalk that especially here in Arizona, is also going to be empty most of the time and taking away a lane of travel. So every two lane road becomes one lane in each direction. Every three lane road becomes two lanes. You're talking about a massive increase, a massive increase in traffic and time and the people doing this. One of the things I always love this, we're going to cut down the emissions because we're going to drive people out of cars. Well, they've done this in a lot of cities Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles. They have tied traffic in knots. They certainly haven't reduced emissions and they haven't gotten people out of their cars. They've just managing to make them wait idling longer air.Chuck Warren: [00:34:22] Which causes air pollution.Sam Stone: [00:34:23] Which causes pollution. Yeah.Chuck Warren: [00:34:25] I mean, or supposedly climate warming. Yeah. Well, right. I mean. I mean, is that what they say?Sam Stone: [00:34:29] Right, right. Yeah. No, this is exactly right. So it's counterproductive. The fact is that if people I mean, we did we we we worked together on an initiative to try to to roll back Phoenix's light rail expansion a few years back. Chuck And you actually commissioned some polling in that. One of the questions was, why do you support. If you support light rail, why do you support it? Do you remember what the number one answer was on that survey?Chuck Warren: [00:34:57] Other people off the road.Sam Stone: [00:34:59] Other people.Chuck Warren: [00:35:00] Not you. Other people.Sam Stone: [00:35:02] Right. Nobody answering that. That question envisioned themselves leaving their car at home and hopping on the light rail. They just hoped it would make traffic less inconvenient for them.Chuck Warren: [00:35:12] Exactly.Sam Stone: [00:35:12] Everyone had that same hope. Boy, that's some kind of fallacy right there. I mean, come on.Chuck Warren: [00:35:18] But you're going to see this more and more. And I think, folks, what you have to be aware of, based upon the fiscal calamity in D.C., more of this burden is going to be put upon the states. It is. And conservatives are going to be confronted with the fact that you're going to have to find the money within the budget for transportation and roads and things and nature, which we all need. It's part of economic development and part of safety.Sam Stone: [00:35:42] I'm not against bus and bus rapid transit expansion. Light rail is a bad solution.Chuck Warren: [00:35:47] No, I agree in that. What I'm saying is conservatives are going to have to come up with because of the fiscal problems of District of Columbia and Congress, I think more of this is going to be put on because as more and more so, the one issue that Democrats in the press during the national debt debate were unwilling to confront is so much of our national spending is mandatory. Right? So that means obviously you have less discretionary, which is transportation. More of this is going to be thrown on the states. There's there's no way around it. And folks, you're going to have to judge who your legislators are, who your city council people are yourself, but they're all going to be confronted. How do they find this extra revenue? So you're either going to have to tell them to find it from this area of government. Currently they're spending and cut it and apply it to this or they're going to have the dilemma we have. We've had 40 years now. Here are a half a cent sales tax. It's been efficient in a lot of ways. It's put, you know, it's.Sam Stone: [00:36:45] Put a lot of miles of road on the ground. It's also put a lot of miles of largely unused light rail on the ground.Chuck Warren: [00:36:51] Right? And so you're going to have to make decisions on that. And Sam, and I've always felt regarding light rail, to me, the light rail never works unless the federal government comes in and says, here's hundreds of billions of dollars and we're going to connect everything at once, because what they do is they do this piecemeal thing that makes it completely ineffective.Sam Stone: [00:37:07] Well, also, I mean, one of the one of the if you actually dig into the numbers, light rail is never going to be any kind of rail system does not work unless you have massive density. You have to have population density that does not exist.Chuck Warren: [00:37:21] It just does not work out west.Sam Stone: [00:37:22] Outside of the the East Coast.Chuck Warren: [00:37:24] New York or Chicago or something.Sam Stone: [00:37:25] To a smaller extent. San Francisco, Los Angeles.Chuck Warren: [00:37:28] You probably do Miami, but it's very limited. So anyway, pay attention to that. That's a real debate here. Katie Hobbs, you know, which you would expect from a liberal governor loves, you know, the light rail. And Republicans are like.Sam Stone: [00:37:42] Well, you know why They you know, why they love light rail. You want to know who one of the biggest donors to Democrats is? Horizontal construction. The people that build roads because they're heavily unionized. Right. Right. The union employees make sure that they kick huge amounts of money to Democrats, including at the corporate level. But then obviously, these are the people who build the light rail. If you're talking about spending $30 billion on light rail, the companies here are looking at that as a minimum. I tell you for sure, a minimum of $6 billion of profit out of that 30 billion, 20%. So if they end up giving $1 billion to Democrats to make 5 billion, they do that. And that's exactly what's funding they would probably.Chuck Warren: [00:38:29] Give to to get four. It's a pretty good deal at the end of the day. All right. Let's talk about news for in Dallas is reporting a story and the headline is Realtor Helps LGBTQ. Plus Texans Leave the State Through Rainbow Underground Railroad. There's two fallacies here. And, you know, they've interviewed some people. One, you don't need an underground railroad in America. You just pick up and leave. No one's telling you not to leave. Call U-Haul. No one's. Yeah, call U-Haul if you can find one. No one's. No one's forcing you. No one's forcing you to stay in any state. The only actually the only people forcing you to stay in the state is California who wants to apply taxes on you if you leave. So really, if you need an underground railroad, it's for Gavin Newsom and California's tax.Sam Stone: [00:39:23] Well, see, that's the other side of this truck. You can get a very cheap U-Haul in Texas. Yeah, Yeah. You get a very cheap U-Haul in Texas. As long as you're willing to drive it back to a blue state because nobody's doing that.Chuck Warren: [00:39:33] So in this article, it quotes the lifelong Texan, whose name is Paul Lewis, committed in January to begin looking for somewhere else to move. He explained how two factors solidified that decision, pointing to the growing number of Lbgtq restrictions introduced in the. Slate of session and the deadly mass shootings happening in the state. Now, the latter. Look, we talked about this. People are uncomfortable, right? And if that's something that makes you uncomfortable, that's that's what it is.Sam Stone: [00:40:00] But but let's you and I have slightly different takes on that. But we both agree that this is a big problem, a big problem in terms of the the perception.Chuck Warren: [00:40:08] It's a big problem. It's a big problem for fair. It's a big problem for fair. Right. So, okay, let's go and say that's an issue, right?Sam Stone: [00:40:14] The LGBTQ stuff. Are you kidding?Chuck Warren: [00:40:16] Let's talk about what these restrictions are. What we're simply saying is you can't mutilate mutilate a child. And and and so now this is anti LGBTQ plus legislation saying you can't do irreparable harm. That can't really be reversed.Sam Stone: [00:40:35] Which by the way, is something that every almost now every European country is running to implement these restrictions and not allow this type of, as Jamie.Chuck Warren: [00:40:43] Pointed out, socialized medicine countries are saying you can't do this to children anymore.Sam Stone: [00:40:50] Right now. And countries that are brought up by the left as avatars of left ideology are running from this as fast as they can. They see the harms. This is not going to stop in. American hospitals are making a fortune.Chuck Warren: [00:41:05] And as you said before the show, what's going to happen is you're going to see several huge civil lawsuits that may bankrupt these hospitals who have made a fortune off Covid. But again, the thing that really stuck out at me, so this is what the this is what the left does, they try to frame this. And Republicans are very bad at this. An underground railroad assumes that in secrecy you need a guide to get you out of the hands of slave owners. I mean, no one's I mean, I am sure no one in that neighborhood is saying, oh, Paul, you know, don't let the door hit you on the butt. He sounds like a jerk. And so, you know, it's just one of those things. And it's again, it's again where the Republicans and conservatives are simply failing to communicate their message and they need to stop calling it anti Lbgtq. We start saying this is pro kid legislation.Sam Stone: [00:41:55] Well, it's we're against child mutilation as a pretty straightforward position. I mean, honestly, just like.Chuck Warren: [00:42:01] Look, let kids be kids and they'll figure it out. They want change after 18. Let them do.Sam Stone: [00:42:04] It. Yeah, I don't care what anyone does as an adult. If you're making a decision in your right mind about yourself and that decision is to chop off your genitals, I think you're an idiot, folks. You can. You're an idiot with the right to be an idiot.Chuck Warren: [00:42:16] Look us up at breaking battlegrounds, dot vote or anywhere where you find your podcasts, make sure you review. Make sure you share. We've enjoyed our time with you and we hope for all the fathers out there. You have a fantastic Father's Day. Enjoy your family.Sam Stone: [00:42:30] Barbecue.Chuck Warren: [00:42:30] Something good? Yeah. Take care. 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This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, we are joined by friend of the show, Congressman Dusty Johnson of South Dakota. Later in the program, we speak with Dr. James Bosbotinis, a UK-based specialist in defense and international affairs.-Dusty Johnson brings an energetic and optimistic style to Washington as South Dakota’s lone voice in the U.S. House of Representatives. A recognized leader in issues related to rural America, agriculture, and welfare reform, he serves on the Agriculture Committee and as Chairman of the Commodity Markets, Digital Assets, and Rural Development Subcommittee. As a member of the Transportation & Infrastructure Committee, Dusty has been focused on finding solutions to the supply chain crisis through his Ocean Shipping Reform Act which passed the House in 2021. Appointed to the Select Committee on China, Dusty addresses the 360-degree threat posed by China, especially their ownership of American ag land and ag businesses and control over tech. Prior to being elected to Congress, he served as chief of staff to the Governor and as vice president of an engineering firm specializing in rural telecommunications. Dusty lives in Mitchell with his wife and three sons.-Dr James Bosbotinis is a specialist in defence and international affairs. He has particular expertise in the study of contemporary maritime strategy, assessing naval and air force developments, geopolitical analysis, and generating understanding of the connections between maritime strategy and national policy. Dr Bosbotinis has extensive experience encompassing academic and policy-relevant research and analysis for a range of customers, including UK government bodies. He has written widely on issues including the development of British maritime strategy, maritime airpower, Russian maritime doctrine, naval and wider military (including nuclear) modernisation, long-range strike technologies (including hypersonic weapons) and their impact on strategy, and China’s evolving strategy. He is the Book Reviews Editor of The Naval Review, and an Associate Member of the Corbett Centre for Maritime Policy Studies, King’s College London.”-Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds- TranscriptionSam Stone: [00:00:11] Welcome to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Folks, up first as our guest today, a returning guest and friend of the program. Welcome to Congressman Dusty Johnson, the lone representative from South Dakota. He serves on the as chairman of the Commodity Markets Digital Assets and Agriculture Committee. Or sorry, I am all over the place reading this today. He serves on the Agriculture Committee and as chairman of the Commodity Markets, Digital Assets and Rural Development Subcommittee and as a member of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. He's also been doing a lot of work as part of the Select Committee on China. Dusty, thank you so much for joining us and welcome to the program.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:00:53] Well, thanks for having me again. I'm glad I didn't flunk the first appearance.Chuck Warren: [00:00:57] We are, too. I've been horrible for ratings. All right. So China has made a secret agreement with Cuba, which is about 100 miles south of Florida. For those of you who bet on geography that they're going to do electronic eavesdropping facility in Cuba, is this alarming or should it be?Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:01:16] It is alarming. It's alarming for two reasons. Number one, I mean, they're going to have the capability to do all kinds of electronic surveillance across the southeastern United States from there. That's going to give them access to stuff that they don't otherwise have. They can't get this same stuff from space. They could get it from balloons. But obviously, balloons are pretty easy to to bring down. So this is going to give them new capabilities, particularly to scoop up information communications from military sites in the southeastern United States. But the second reason it's concerning is that it shows additional provocation by Xi Jinping. They just keep pushing the envelope. They keep pushing us. They want us to know that they're going to be the bosses of the next 100 years. And it's a problem. I mean, we have a rules based international system was largely erected by the United States after World War II and our allies. And China hates it. They just hate it. They don't think those rules of fair play make any sense. They want to knock down that system and build a new international system with their values at the core of it. And all of these provocations are just part of a longer term strategy. And I would just say this by way of closure. They have a strategy. I'm not sure our country does. I think we just we don't have a thoughtful and deliberate plan on how to make sure that the next century continues to be part of, you know, an American century.Chuck Warren: [00:02:46] Speaking of that, so now we're talking about Cuba. Is the United States with really no strategy neglecting Central and South America, which China seems to be focusing on?Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:02:58] Yes. Yeah, we. So many Americans. I mean, we're in a little bit of an isolationist time. People want to, you know, America first. And listen, of course, when we make policies, we should look first to how is it going to impact America, How is it going to strengthen American prosperity and security? But America first can't mean America. Only some people will sometimes say, well, why would we care about Guyana? Why would we care about, you know, Qatar? Why would we care about Ukraine? But when we recede from international leadership and create a vacuum, China is all too willing to step up and fill that void. They love it. They love it when Americans put our head in the sand. They what I would call the Southern globe. They really are trying to be the dominant force there. China is the largest trading partner with every single South American country. That's it used to be America, and now it's China. In public opinion surveys, increasingly, citizens of African nations are saying that it is China that is the leader of the world and not the United States.Sam Stone: [00:04:03] Well, and that is a matter of world opinion, not U.S. Opinion, too. I think we have to take that into consideration. You can't be the leader of the world just because the people in your country say so.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:04:14] Right. Yeah, that's a really good point. And I just think a world where people think China is in charge is a more dangerous world for freedom. And the thing that I've loved about America through the last 247 years is that to a greater degree than any other country in the history of the world, we have been on the side of the right guys, of the good guys, and we've fought for values. And, you know, we haven't been perfect, but we've gotten it right way more often than anybody else has. And that is not China's track record.Chuck Warren: [00:04:46] Well, and it's interesting. China has sort of become the world's loan shark. It's loaning money to these third world countries for ports, infrastructure. When they can't pay it back.Sam Stone: [00:04:57] They kneecap.Chuck Warren: [00:04:57] Them. They kneecap them. Exactly. And trademarked that term. And so we do that. And so that brings me to we talked about I feel the United States for decades has ignored Central and South America. Right? I mean, we have every abundant resource in the world in our hemisphere. We seem to ignore it. And now you have The Washington Post came out this morning with the Saudi crown prince privately threatened a major economic pain on the US amid a showdown over oil cuts. Leaked intelligence show. And now you have Saudi Arabia inviting China over. We just dropped the ball here. I mean, I don't I don't think I have felt this insecure about our ability in the world right now since I have the late 70s.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:05:44] And I would tell you, this sort of sense of populism that's growing on both sides of the aisle is contributing to that. Free trade is out of vogue. It used to be that that was a key Republican value, that a willing buyer, a willing seller, that kind of free trade without undue government intervention that made both sides more prosperous. Again, it's voluntary. I mean, they're only going to enter into it if they if it makes their individual lives or country stronger. Correct? At least in theory. I mean, Colombia is the fifth largest market for American corn. Is that because Colombia's a top five nation in population or wealth? No, is because Colombians have some unique tastes for corn. No, it's because we have a free trade agreement with Colombia. And so the invisible hand just kind of wants this American product to flow toward that country. And this administration, the Biden administration has no trade policy, Zero. There have been no there's been no progress on any trade deal in the last two and a half years. And the world when I have people come to my office from other countries, they they want to do business with America. They want to buy our beef, our dairy, our corn. They want to buy our manufactured goods. And we are not making it very easy for them. And you're right, that kind of stepping back of American leadership is absolutely. Injuring American competitiveness.Sam Stone: [00:07:14] Well, they want to buy our products because our products are well made. They're safer than food coming from China. Know all of those things. We have this really good capitalist system, but at the head of it is a government that has no idea what it's doing and keeps making radical course changes between administrations. That has to be throwing out all of our allies for a loop.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:07:37] That it is they they still realize that, you know, when we lead, we're the best leader in the world. There's nobody else can bring to the table what America does. They get a little nervous when they feel like America is too inward focused. Tony Blair, former prime minister of the United Kingdom, told me a few months ago that America's political division is a global security threat, that when our Republicans and our Democrats are bickering, the rest of the world gets concerned. And when we're getting along, when America is united, the whole world just breathes a sigh of relief. Oh, thank goodness. Mom and dad, they're the cops on the beat. There's going to be more security. There's going to be more free trade. There's going to be more prosperity across the globe. When we drop the ball, everybody feels it.Sam Stone: [00:08:30] How much is what China is doing right now is really reminiscent of an economic version, if you will, of the Empire Building of the 18th and 19th and early 20th century. How did they how do Chinese people view what they're trying to do in their territorial ambitions? Have you gotten any information on that from your briefings? I mean, do they have real popular support in their country for this sort of muscular foreign diplomacy?Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:09:00] We heard from two survivors of the Tiananmen Square massacre. Last week, it was the anniversary of the massacre. And what was most interesting to me about that briefing wasn't just replaying the terrible events of that day, but about how little awareness there is among the Chinese people about the actions of their government. The Great Chinese Firewall is for real. It is very difficult for everyday Chinese people to gain understanding of what their government is doing. And this is the most sophisticated surveillance state that has ever been constructed with human knowledge. And I don't I think Americans don't understand how bad it is. I mean, there are regions in China where you can only get toilet paper in a public restroom by scanning your ID. They want to know where you are. They want to know what you're doing. They want to know how much toilet paper you're using. This is an almost breathtakingly deep invasion of people's privacy, so people are not comfortable speaking out there. There is not a free media. And I not only do they not understand what their government is doing today, there is almost no historical memory of the fact that this has been a repressive and oppressive regime for decades. It is a major problem. The Chinese people are not are not an adversary to our nation. It is just Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party.Sam Stone: [00:10:35] Well, and that brings up a good point. You talk about the digital wall that they've created. I mean, one of the ways that we've really advanced towards ending the Cold War and ending the antagonism with the Soviet Union was with Voice of America, with other communications, where they started seeing on TV the lies their government was telling. Because their government says everyone in America, its poor, it's racked by race riots. All the time. It's a terrible place to live. And then I talked to one ex-Soviet who said, hey, they showed us that. But then they're saying these are the ghettos and everyone has cars and none of us had cars. How do we break through the digital wall? I mean, is there a way for us to start trying to to direct more information to these folks?Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:11:25] Yes. And I think things like low earth, low orbit satellites can can play a role in giving people access to Internet that doesn't go through the great Chinese firewall. It can help, you know, one, 1.5 billion Chinese people understand that their regime is evil and is working to make them subservient every single day. But that requires an investment like putting satellites up in space and giving people access to, you know, the World Wide Web. This is not something that happens for free. And I think in our political system right now, if somebody said, well, we want, you know, X hundreds of millions or, you know, a few billion dollars to be able to deploy these satellites like the Voice of America to cut through these tyrannical regimes. What do you all think? I mean, I think a lot of Americans would say, well, why do I care what's going on in Hong Kong? Why do I care what's going on? I mean, I just it seems like it doesn't affect my life.Chuck Warren: [00:12:24] And well.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:12:25] The so I think we've got some information sharing we got to do. Well.Chuck Warren: [00:12:28] We're almost out of time here for this first segment. But I think my final comment here real quick is there's just so much going on in the world. You're saying, how much can I handle mentally? I think that's a big part of it. Now, we're with Congressman Dusty Johnson, South Dakota. This is breaking battlegrounds. Find us at breaking battlegrounds, dot vote or your favorite podcast. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds. I'm your host, Chuck Warren and Sam Stone. We are honored to have friend of the show, Congressman Dusty Johnson, Republican from South Dakota, a true leader in Congress. And folks, are you concerned about your retirement? You probably should be. Things aren't getting cheaper. Social Security going to have to be altered some, whether you like it or not, in the future. That's why Sam and I are recommending to you Yrefy? They are a great opportunity to help students pull out of their private loan college debts, and you can get up to a 10.25% return. That's right, 10.25%. So learn more about how to make your investment dollar go further better than the stock market, actually. And that's why we suggest you call Why Yrefy at eight, eight, eight. W Yrefy two four? Again, call eight, eight, eight Yrefy two four and tell him Chuck and Sam sent you.Sam Stone: [00:14:00] Congressman, thank you for sticking with us, folks. He's going to be on for one more segment after this. Also. So, Congressman, we very much thank you for your time this morning. But one thing we wanted to touch on before we move on to other topics is we've been talking about China. You're part of the China Select Committee. We had Congressman Dunn on the program a couple of weeks ago, and he told us something that I actually was not aware of and hadn't heard that all those little South Pacific islands that MacArthur used as essentially the latter to Japan and that we would, quite frankly, need in a war between Taiwan and China to be able to effectively operate in that theater. The Chinese, just like you were talking about in South America, they're making both economic and military overtures and essentially weaponizing that ladder against us. Can you tell us any more about that or is what are they doing? Because it seems very clear that they are gearing up for an attack on Taiwan.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:15:01] Everything you said is absolutely spot on. And we talked about in the first segment about American leadership receding a fair amount across the broader world. There are diplomats who say, oh, you know, from from these smaller countries who say, when I talk to the Chinese, I get an airport. When I talk to the Americans, I get a scolding.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:15:22] And.Sam Stone: [00:15:24] I'll take the airport. Thanks.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:15:27] Yeah. And that's what they're saying now. They know that the airport is going to be built in a very shoddy manner. They know that there's this loan shark mentality that you described, but these are poor countries. And there are times when they've got their backs up against the wall where they don't really know what else to do. They also don't get the sense that this is I mean I mean, Americans have a tendency to view things in pretty stark terms in kind of black and white. I think, by the way, that's when we look at the Chinese Communist Party. We are right to look at them as the bad guys. I think it is that simple. I think Xi Jinping is every bit as big a villain and a tyrant as the famous tyrants of the 20th century we all learned about in third grade. And so I do think that that we are right to look at it in those terms. The rest of the world, you know, these poor countries, they're not so sure. They're trying to make sure their people are fed. And so when these overtures that you're talking about are made, they are far more open to them because America is a little missing in action. Now, I think we have an opportunity here to step up our game because they don't want to cut these deals with the Chinese, but we have to give them an alternative. One more thing in there have been some recent years where where China's Belt and Road initiative invested more money in the developing world than the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund combined. And so it's not just America that's getting outspent by the Chinese. It's really the entire free developed world. We just were getting lapped.Chuck Warren: [00:17:00] Do you think the American public, especially those under the age of 40, really understand what communism is?Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:17:05] No, and in part because both political parties are free to use those terms whenever they think that it will provide a short term political benefit. So we really don't I mean, there's not a deep understanding of different political philosophies. No, it is with some communities. It's very clear. I mean, Carlos Gimenez from Florida is on the Select Committee on China with Neal Dunn and myself. And he having spent some time early on in his life in Cuba, I think does understand the backbreaking poverty that can be caused by communism, by socialism. So it's not I mean, it is not unusual among Cuban Americans or among people who emigrated from Eastern Europe for them to understand those concepts. But native born Americans, we just don't get it.Chuck Warren: [00:17:56] I want to switch subjects real quick here. Let's talk about Isgs for a moment. So there's a report out today by the Texas Public Policy Foundation that says under Biden, oil and gas investment is down 80%, 80%. So we just talked earlier about Saudi Arabia threatening economic sabotage on the American economy because Biden doesn't know what he's doing. And now you have these folks that are afraid to put capital on new oil and gas wells, refineries, pipelines, etcetera. We have a problem here because we can be you know, look, there's two things. America should always be self-sufficient on food and energy. There's no reason for it. How do we turn this around?Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:18:38] And that is really well said. I do think food and energy are they are the very base of the pyramid. It's hard to build anything upwards if you don't have those as the foundation. And we know that it's almost impossible to cite big projects, whether they be energy or infrastructure in this country. The same project that you can get done in two years in France or Germany takes you five years to get done in this country. I mean, France is not generally considered a paragon of regulatory efficiency. So when we are getting our butts kicked by France, I think that is a should be a major wakeup call. And this is bipartisan, by the way. We've had Secretary Buttigieg come to our transportation committee and talk about how we need to streamline permitting. We have clearly, Senator Manchin has tried to be a leader on this issue. We have really made no meaningful progress until last week. Where the debt ceiling deal, the Fiscal Responsibility Act, which I think was pretty unfairly maligned by, you know, far right conservatives for the first time since the 1970s made major improvements in how we can streamline these things. It gives a shot clock for environmental review on energy projects and other projects. So you can't take five years to complete an environmental impact statement. It makes sure that there's a federal government, one agency who's the coordinator who's trying to drive these decisions to fruition. I mean, it does a lot of things that we've been talking about for a long time, but we need even more of it because I think affordable energy is a is an American competitive advantage and we are squandering it.Sam Stone: [00:20:21] Yeah, that's also very well said. It's a huge advantage. We have just about a minute here before we go back to break. We're going to be coming back for our third segment with more from Congressman Dusty Johnson of South Dakota. Congressman, how do folks follow you and your work? Stay in touch with both what you're doing at the Capitol and while you're at home there in South Dakota?Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:20:41] Well, at Rep Dusty Johnson, so Rep, Dusty Johnson kind of on all of the social media platforms, not TikTok, because that's just Chinese malware, but basically everywhere else, that's where we're at. And we'd love to have people join the conversation.Sam Stone: [00:20:56] I did a thing not too long ago for a group of folks asking about different social medias. I went through the purpose of each one of them. I got to Tik Tok and I said, If you have this, throw away your phone.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:21:06] Yep, yep. It's true.Sam Stone: [00:21:09] Congressman, thank you so much. We're going to be coming back here with more from Congressman Dusty Johnson on breaking battlegrounds in just a few moments. We want to touch a little bit on something else that's going on that the congressman has been working on, particularly relating to food security here in the United States and to our our food systems. That has been a major focus of his. And thank goodness we do have some folks in there focusing on it. Folks, make sure you download and tune in to our podcast only segment. You can get that wherever you get your podcasts. We are doing quite a bit on that these days. Those segments keep getting longer and longer and Chuck and I have a nice argument for you at the end of this one. So folks, breaking battlegrounds. Back in just a moment. Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. On the line with us right now, Congressman Dusty Johnson of South Dakota. Congressman, one of the things that you've been working on really since the pandemic has been our food supply security, its supply chain crisis overall. You've been working on the Ocean Shipping Reform Act. Tell us what's going on in both of those areas, because I think Americans still don't realize how fragile our supply chain has been ever since 2020 and continues to be right now.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:22:37] There are a lot of factors that make that supply chain pretty fragile. I mean, we're 80,000 truck drivers short. We only have five major ocean carriers. And so if 1 or 2 of them decide that they're not interested in fairly hauling American products to market, we've got a problem. We had done somewhat of an underinvestment in infrastructure over the previous 20 years. I think that's beginning to move back in the right direction. So we do listen. We have some work to do. And just to give you an example, during the kind of the 18 months after the worst of the pandemic, so we've moved past the worst of health issues, but we were still dealing with some economic fragility. 60% of containers that were going back to Asia were going back empty. This at a time when we had American food products literally rotting on the on the on the docks there because the foreign flagged ocean carriers just wanted to make a quick turn. They didn't want to haul American goods. They wanted to get back, grab Chinese iPhones and bring them back quickly. And I totally get it in a in a true free market system. Okay.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:23:49] Listen, you get to decide how you want to make your money. If you can make more money doing that, I guess, good on you. But these guys are using American ports. And I just think at some point you need some basic reciprocity. And we pass the Ocean Shipping Reform Act. It was signed into law last year that said, there has to be if you're going to use American ports, you've got to play by some very basic rules of the road, like not ignoring American goods just because you think it's convenient to do so. And then we're also passed out of committee two weeks ago, a bill that would allow trucks if they add a sixth axle to increase weight so we can have those truck drivers when they're on the road do so safely. It doesn't cause more damage to the roads, it doesn't cause more accidents. It just allows those hardworking men and women to to work smarter and more efficiently. But we've got about 100 other things like that we've got to do throughout the system. If we fail to act, we're just going to give China that much more control over the global economic system.Sam Stone: [00:24:48] Congressman, how much do you think and you touched on this earlier, talking about China, but also talking about just our investment, whether it be a low orbit satellite system here in the southwest. We desperately need some new consideration for desalination and pipelining of water. The power grid across the country is very vulnerable and needs to be hardened. There are all these major infrastructure needs or or project needs here and around the world that we should be participating in investing in. How much more would the American public trust our government if we just started getting these things done?Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:25:29] There is a sense that the era of big projects in America is kind of in the rear view mirror. And I think that's sad because I think the story of the 20th century in this country was so much about big projects, big dreams coming to fruition. I mean, rural electrification. The universal service where we everybody got a dial tone. The interstate highway system. We connected every one of the states. The the damn system that provides, you know, 15 or 20% of the electricity for this country. I mean, it was just major homerun after major homerun where we said this is America, this is the land of builders. And now it's like you can't I mean, you can't get anything built without spending, you know, ten years in litigation.Chuck Warren: [00:26:20] Right. Right.Chuck Warren: [00:26:21] And and it's people it.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:26:22] Makes me sad because we need we need to bring back that American swagger of just competence and construction. That doesn't mean we're going to roll over any landowners rights, but I think it does mean that these getting a maybe answer after ten years is obnoxious. Let's give these companies a yes or no so they can figure out what to go invest in.Chuck Warren: [00:26:44] Well, maybe he's the third worst answer. The best answer is yes. Second best, no. The worst answers may be and that's what we keep doing and what's finally what's funny is the progressives want to keep pushing these things that delay these projects, which would help a lot of low income and middle income families. And I sort of have to agree with Sam. Sam thinks this is on purpose because they want to break America. Congressman 30s, tell us what's going good in America right now.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:27:06] Well, research and development, technology, I mean, those are really the things that make people's everyday lives better. Government tries to screw that stuff up, but thank goodness we're failing and innovation continues.Chuck Warren: [00:27:21] We're with Congressman Dusty Johnson. Congressman, thank you for joining us today. You can find him on all social media, on Twitter at Rep. Dusty Johnson, same thing on Instagram, same thing on Facebook. Congressman, thanks a million.Sam Stone: [00:27:33] Never on TikTok.Chuck Warren: [00:27:34] Never on TikTok. It's communist. Thank you, Congressman. We appreciate it.Congressmen Dusty Johnson: [00:27:38] You bet. Thank you.Chuck Warren: [00:27:38] Bye bye. Bye.Sam Stone: [00:28:06] All right. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Folks, are you concerned with stock market volatility, especially with Joe Biden in office? What if you could invest in a portfolio with a high fixed rate of return that's not correlated to the stock market? A portfolio where you know what each monthly statement would look like with no surprises, you can turn your monthly income on or off, compound it, whatever you choose. There's no loss of principle. If you need your money back at any time, your interest is compounded daily, you're paid monthly and there are no fees. So go to investyrefy.com that's invest the letter Y, then refy.com or call them at 88yrefy 24 and get yourself in line to earn up to a 10.25% fixed rate of return. That's right, folks. 10.25% fixed. It's the best deal out there in investing today. So give them a call.investyefy.com or 888 y refy 24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you? All right, Chuck. Next up, a guest I'm very excited to talk to doing some very good work in the area of military affairs particularly, he is a specialist in defense and international affairs. They focus on maritime and Air Force developments. Welcome to the program, Dr. James Bosbotinis, He and thank you for joining us this morning. You have some fantastic pieces out on hypersonic weaponry that's being developed. Can you tell us first what is a hypersonic weapon?Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:29:29] Thank you very much. And, uh, it's my pleasure to be speaking to you today. A hypersonic weapon is basically a missile that travels at speeds of in excess of Mach five or faster than the five times faster than the speed of sound. The difference between a hypersonic missile as attention is being drawn to now and a traditional ballistic missile which travel at speeds above Mach five and have been in service, uh, for decades now, is that the new generation of hypersonic weapons that are being developed? Hypersonic glide vehicles and hypersonic cruise missiles can maneuver within the atmosphere. Which complicates detection, tracking and defense.Sam Stone: [00:30:27] That's one of the first questions. Thank you. That was one of the first questions I was going to ask, because obviously a traditional ICBM is actually coming in faster than than these things go. And we have developed some systems to try to at least target those and be able to shoot them down. But your concern, you say, with these.Sam Stone: [00:30:46] Is.Sam Stone: [00:30:48] There's almost no way to for our current defense systems, our ship point defense systems, our national defense systems to deal with this threat as it evolves at this time.Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:31:00] Defense against the latest hypersonic threats at present is very limited. The United States has said it has a nascent capability against, for example, hypersonic glide vehicles, with the Sm6 deployed on US Navy warships. And it's working to develop a glide phase interceptor, which will enter service later this decade, and that will be capable of intercepting the latest hypersonic threats that are being developed, as we have seen most recently in Ukraine. The Patriot Air defense. Air and missile defense system does offer a capability against the Russian kinzhal The Kinzhal is described as a hypersonic weapon system. And strictly speaking, it is. It travels faster than Mach five. But. It's a sort of entry level hypersonic system. It's an it's effectively an air launched ballistic missile. It's an air launched version of the Russian Iskander Ground launched tactical ballistic missile. So it it falls within the intercept capability of existing systems such as Patriot. The higher end systems glide vehicles such as the Chinese DF 17 or a hypersonic cruise missile. They are much more taxing.Chuck Warren: [00:32:30] Why should Americans, our brothers and sisters, the United Kingdom, freedom loving countries be concerned about Russia and China having hypersonic missiles? Explain to them what is the danger of them in practical terms.Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:32:46] A hypersonic weapons by virtue of their speed, their flight paths, their unpredictable trajectories and maneuverability, make detecting, tracking and engaging them very difficult. So they are particularly well suited to striking very high value targets. It's why the United States, for example, is working to develop its own hypersonic weapons capability. If you want to hit something that is extremely high value, such as an aircraft carrier or a deeply buried, hardened command facility, a hypersonic weapon provides. That effective means of penetrating an adversary's own missile defenses and striking it. Are not a panacea. They're not going to be silver bullets. They form part of a wider strike complex, but because of those particular characteristics, they pose particular challenges. And that is why they are eliciting so much concern in terms of potential adversaries deploying them.Chuck Warren: [00:34:02] The United States obviously omits and shows its power around the world through our aircraft carriers. There are amazing vessels. They show amazing presence. Why would a hypersonic missile mean to our aircraft carrier presence throughout the world? Let's say Russia or Iran have one. What does that mean?Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:34:24] It provides a potent means of targeting the carrier. But a carrier is inherently an extremely difficult target to prosecute. It's mobile. A US carrier will be moving hundreds of miles a day. The maritime environment is inherently dynamic, and to find, fix, track and target a carrier is difficult. You need a very robust supporting kill chain or intelligence surveillance reconnaissance systems that can locate the carrier, keep track of it and help cue long range strike systems onto it. And those systems can be targeted kinetically so reconnaissance aircraft can be shot down. They can be targeted for electronic warfare and cyber means. So the system can be disrupted in a in a variety of means. But. Assuming that it's still functioning, the adversary can launch a hypersonic missile, which because it travels so much quicker than a long range than other subsonic long range strike systems, the time a subsonic cruise missile would take to travel, say, 600 miles in an hour. A hypersonic missile can do in, say, ten minutes. So because it's compressing the time that it takes to travel to the target, it means that the carrier and its strike group have a much shorter window in which to detect, track and engage the incoming threat. So that is why hypersonic weapons are seen as posing such a challenge to time critical targets such such as an aircraft carrier.Chuck Warren: [00:36:07] You need people who think on their feet.Sam Stone: [00:36:09] Yeah. One of one of your recent articles on that same point, it's not just compressing the time that a carrier or carrier group has to deal with an incoming threat, But the potential for these missiles to be used in both conventional and nuclear configurations means that for political decision makers, these may compress the time in ways that really, really restrict their ability to react to a situation intelligently. Right.Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:36:39] Yes, there's always the problem with dual capable systems, that is weapon systems which are both nuclear and conventional, that when one is traveling towards you, you don't know whether it is a nuclear weapon on its way or a conventional weapon. And that poses all sorts of challenges in terms of escalation control. Uh, for example, the Chinese DF 26 intermediate range ballistic missile is both conventional and nuclear. And if one is launched in the event of hostilities at Guam, uh, there is no way of telling until it detonates what warhead it it is carrying. So with any dual capable long range strike system that discern that, discerning whether it is nuclear or conventional is a particular problem. And, uh, certainly hypersonic missiles would be would be no different. And, uh. The Russian Kinzhal system, which is being employed against Ukraine, is a dual capable system. And. It's likely that other hypersonic weapon systems will also be dual capable.Chuck Warren: [00:37:56] With Dr. James Bosbotinis, he is a United Kingdom based specialist in Defence and International Affairs. He is co CEO of JB Associates, a geopolitical risk advisory. What have we learned about Russia's military capabilities in Ukraine?Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:38:13] We have learnt that pre-war assessments governing how Russian military modernisation efforts have proceeded over the past decade or so were. Overoptimistic, shall we say, the rush, the deep, deep structural flaws in the Russian military, which are reflective of the wider Russian state, have not been addressed. The Russian. The Russian military. Has. Made fundamental errors. For example. In the employment of the ballistic and cruise missile forces. They spent 20 plus years developing a doctrine of how to employ these. And when war broke out, they didn't actually use them as they had written about how they would use them, which was extremely fortunate for Ukraine. The Russians haven't conducted large scale combined arms training. Their air force does not train to anywhere near the level of Western air forces. They haven't developed the joint command structures, all various issues. Their logistics system is, as we have seen.Sam Stone: [00:39:39] When I was about 11 years old, I had a chance to visit still the Soviet Union, and we were there with a group of writers who were it was the start of glasnost. They were talking about some of the environmental damage. We came back. Everyone was plowed drunk one night from a Georgian restaurant in Moscow. One of the big writers in front of us was trying to open his door to his hotel room. He fell into the door, the door frame and all fell into the room, splintered apart. He rolls over, laughing. He looks back at us and says, And you were afraid of our missiles. I think that in certain sense still describes the nature of Soviet manufacturing and weapons propaganda.Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:40:14] Yes, a lot of Russian weapons systems are not anywhere near to the same standard of equivalent Western missile systems or other weapon systems. On the other hand, they're the they're long range strike systems. They're iskandar's. They're cruise missiles, for example. They have worked uh, it's a question more of the human element in how in how the weapons are employed rather than the actual effect themselves. When a when an Iskander hits a target, it is detonating and it is causing damage and their cruise missiles have proved devastating. But the Russians, instead of launching these weapons at critical national infrastructure targets at the start of the war. Air defense systems, command and control facilities, they used them against civilian targets and firing, for the most part, firing a ballistic missile or a cruise missile against a civilian apartment block is apart from being an absolute war crime, it's also a complete waste of a weapon system. So they didn't actually employ their systems, right? Had they employed them differently, we could have seen a very different. Progression of the conflict.Sam Stone: [00:41:35] Do you think that's partially because they were trying to simply get the Ukrainian people to force a capitulation at that point? Or because that seems like the only reason you do that instead of targeting military assets.Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:41:50] Yes, indeed. The operational planning was guided by completely false assumptions. The Russian government, the Russian government thought that a Ukrainian resistance would collapse after about three days and the Ukrainian people would simply greet the Russians with open with open arms. And so perhaps they thought that there's no need to conduct air strikes against infrastructure targets. Yeah. Dr..Sam Stone: [00:42:20] Dr. James Bosbotinis is a UK based specialist in defense and international affairs, particularly focus on maritime and Air Force development. Dr. How do folks follow you and your work?Dr James Bosbotinis: [00:42:29] I'm on Twitter, I'm on LinkedIn. I write on a freelance basis for a variety of publications.Sam Stone: [00:42:36] We appreciate you having having you on the program here today. I want to bring you back on again in the future. Thank you so much. We're running out of time here in the program, Dr.. But I very much appreciate your time this morning. Well, welcome to the podcast. Only segment of breaking battlegrounds. Want to say thank you to both of our guests today, Congressman Dusty Johnson and Dr. James Bosbotinis. Good discussions there from both of them, Chuck. But there's obviously some really big news kind of stirring the country right now. Broke last night with the indictment of Donald Trump on a number of charges, which are frankly hard to deny that that he did do those things. And it's hard, hard to say he didn't commit a crime, on the other hand. The prosecution. I have a real issue with the prosecution of Donald Trump. When you're not prosecuting Hillary Clinton, when you're not prosecuting everyone else who's taken the documents, it's this way.Chuck Warren: [00:43:40] It's again, a double standard. And that's the problem with it. You know what? I understand and this could be wrong, is he was contacted by our archives and he delivered in January 20th, 22, 15 boxes of documents that they said should not have been taken from the White House. So he gave those back. And then through tips or something, I don't know. It's a little unclear. He supposedly had more documents and that's hence we end up getting a raid in August. So the question is, you know, what they're saying is different versus other people is that when he was approached about it or confronted however you want to term it, he sort of dug his heels on some documents. Now, again, you and I have discussed this. I have always believed that there was such chaos in that White House in the last days that who knows what's packing those boxes, right? Well, yeah. I mean I mean, who knows? I mean, stuff gets thrown in boxes all the time. I mean, they're talking about finding pictures within there and Newsweek and and magazines. So it tells me this wasn't a really well conceived conspiracy to take documents. So the question is, I think.Sam Stone: [00:44:52] They were just throwing everything in the offices in boxes and moving.Chuck Warren: [00:44:55] Out the door. And I think and I think they're going fast because they were disputing 2020. So I think that was their focus plus running the country. And then I think, oh my goodness, it's Sunday and we got to leave Tuesday or whatever. And but I.Sam Stone: [00:45:07] Also don't think that's terribly different than what ends up getting taken out of there by every previous president. Yeah.Chuck Warren: [00:45:13] And and that's what I just don't know. I really wish they would tell us what these documents supposedly are that are endangering national security.Sam Stone: [00:45:19] I mean, my problem with that is claiming it's endangering national security at all, because at the end of the day, Donald Trump is not some foreign asset or weapon that whole narrative has been garbage. If anything, he kept these things for ego. You know, I mean, it's as many presidents do, have a giant ego and they want to be able to, you know, show people after their career this letter they got from the president of France or whatever.Chuck Warren: [00:45:46] Well, there's going to be so much more to come. Again, it does show why Hillary Clinton is not biased, why DOJ is protecting Hunter Biden. These are concerning matters. And if you're going to apply the rule of law, I want it to be applied. Even Steven, I don't want you to be picking who you decide should be prosecuted and who should not. And right now, I think this is the problem for DOJ. Now, I think it's really funny. Look, if you prosecuted.Sam Stone: [00:46:17] Clinton, I would have no problem with them.Chuck Warren: [00:46:19] Prosecuting. I think I think a real funny thing is here's the Biden administration saying we didn't know anything about it till we saw the indictment come through. Oh, come on. Just just I mean, just it's just better say I don't know. It's just such a lie. And the thing is, it puts when they do that.Sam Stone: [00:46:32] Well, they can't be honest because they're using the DOJ to target their political adversary.Chuck Warren: [00:46:36] So if you are a Trump supporter or are you inclined to believe the government is doing rotten things, making a statement like that, people like, come on, of course you know about this, right? And so it will be interesting. You know, we still have the investigation of January 6th. We still have the Georgia investigation, which I'd be surprised if indictments don't come out of that. I mean.Sam Stone: [00:47:01] They're going to.Chuck Warren: [00:47:02] It's a big it's a becoming. Is it becoming just such white noise now that people are ignoring it? That's my.Sam Stone: [00:47:08] Question. It's white noise right up until the point where they actually convict him and lock him up. I mean, which they're really threatening, like lengthy prison sentences with some of this. Yeah. I mean, so we'll see how this plays out. But I got to say, I mean, yeah, I agree. He broke the law and there should not there should be consequences when you break the law. But on the other hand, if the consequences apply only to one side, then you don't have a law.Chuck Warren: [00:47:31] You just. Well, that's.Chuck Warren: [00:47:32] Well, that's that's not rule of law. Yeah. And that's the problem with it. So, you know, it's got to be clearly implemented for everybody or not at all. And that's what apparently that's not what we're even at. We're just like we're going to depending who the political party opponent is, we're prosecuting.Sam Stone: [00:47:48] So this is this is a really politicized federal law enforcement and DOJ right now. And it's really damaging to.Chuck Warren: [00:47:54] It really needs to be cleaned up. It would be I would truly be interested in Congress passing something about some sort of lack of a better term term limits in the DOJ.Sam Stone: [00:48:07] Yeah, absolutely.Chuck Warren: [00:48:09] Something has to be done. It's too entrenched with bureaucratic attorneys.Sam Stone: [00:48:12] Well, you know what I was thinking about the other night and I didn't realize it at the time, but I remember some of these articles from the time period Clinton towards the end of his term, and then Obama went big with this. They didn't place people leaving their administration in your typical political appointee positions. They got them jobs inside the bureaucracy in all these agencies. And now we're seeing the the fruit of having ceded all the federal agencies with political Democrat political activists rather than people who were there to actually do the job. They are infiltrated in every bureaucracy from the mid levels up. Right. And that's a hard thing to dis entrench.Chuck Warren: [00:48:54] Exactly. Exactly.Sam Stone: [00:48:56] You're talking about trenches switching topics here, Chuck, But there was a big announcement recently by the governor of Arizona about our water situation here, where they project a 4% deficit in water over the next hundred years.Chuck Warren: [00:49:11] How much was.Sam Stone: [00:49:11] It? 4% over 100 years. So we're not talking end of the world stuff. But the way they did the press conference, it certainly made it sound that way. And they made a big announcement about we're going to stop new construction in Arizona. Now, what they meant was new construction outside of areas served by water grids. Right. If you're on the Phoenix Water or Tucson Water, Flagstaff, water, whatever, that wasn't what they were talking about. But the way they present it, I really believe the environmentalist movement is pushing for planet wide population reduction. They don't want any new growth. They don't want any of this stuff. And this governor fell in this trap. And all week long I've been dealing with businesses from across the country going, hey, we were considering Arizona. We don't think that's viable. Now, if what your governor just said, they botched this thing from top to bottom. Katie Hobbs is utterly incompetent when it comes to handling the routine business of government, because you could have put this out in a press release with nothing else, instituted the exact same policy. We're not going to allow growth in these wildcat areas where you don't have water. That's that is smart policy. Right. But the implementation of it and how she went about it. So Ham handed that it's literally hurt the state of Arizona and that ties to what we're talking with Congressman Johnson. Look, the solution to all of this. The entire US Southwest needs water enhancements. We need new water, whether from the Snake River to the north, the Mississippi, Missouri's to the east or from the Gulf of Mexico, You.Chuck Warren: [00:50:44] Know, And the.Chuck Warren: [00:50:45] Technology is there to.Sam Stone: [00:50:45] Do it. Yeah, it is. But the problem.Chuck Warren: [00:50:47] Is you're gonna have a bunch of environmentalists sue, which you're going to delay at 10 to 20 years. And this is literally issues you can resolve in two years.Sam Stone: [00:50:54] It absolutely is. And that's the other point we brought. I brought this up with one of the other congressmen we've had on the program. But I don't understand why we don't just declare if something is environmentally beneficial and taking the southwest off of groundwater and off of river water would be massively environmentally beneficial. Augmenting our river water, taking us off of groundwater would help the environment here tremendously, period. No question. In that case, why? Why are these why are they allowed to sue on Nepa or any of this other stuff? The project should go forward. You just do the engineering reviews and you're done.Chuck Warren: [00:51:31] Well, it should be like something. Eminent domain. Yeah, that's.Sam Stone: [00:51:33] What I mean.Chuck Warren: [00:51:34] Come on in. And just this needs to be done and it's just ridiculous.Sam Stone: [00:51:37] Like in this case, Look, all your lawsuits. No, you know, we don't even entertain those things in this type of situation because it is an issue of national security and safety for our citizens here in the southwest and to have an assured water supply.Chuck Warren: [00:51:49] And it helps the environment.Sam Stone: [00:51:51] And it helps the environment.Chuck Warren: [00:51:52] Yeah. What do you say? You support helping the environment, but you're fighting something that can absolutely help the environment, right?Sam Stone: [00:51:59] That that is the ridiculousness of the modern environmental movement, which to me is frankly just a eugenicist movement in hiding.Chuck Warren: [00:52:07] Let's finish one last topic here. The Tampa Bay Rays are a third through the season and they are almost 30 games above 500.Sam Stone: [00:52:16] Chuck, I'm a Red Sox fan and this is the podcast segment, so I can say what I really feeling right now, which is f**k you, man. Seriously, they are. No, they're amazing.Chuck Warren: [00:52:25] They're amazing. They are an amazing organization.Sam Stone: [00:52:28] What they do with no money, I mean, no money.Chuck Warren: [00:52:32] And you sort of get the sense the Diamondbacks have taken a page from them, what they've building up on their farm system.Sam Stone: [00:52:36] I've said for years, if you if you watched and do what Tampa does, but just add a little money to the mix where you can keep some of your best players from time to time and you don't watch them go to the Padres. That's that's the that's the formula.Chuck Warren: [00:52:49] I agree.Chuck Warren: [00:52:49] I agree.Sam Stone: [00:52:50] Well, in which the Diamondbacks can go lock up Corbin Carroll right now.Chuck Warren: [00:52:55] Well, they have, haven't they.Sam Stone: [00:52:56] Did they? Yeah. Did I miss.Chuck Warren: [00:52:57] That? Was that the ten year deal?Chuck Warren: [00:52:59] I don't. Corbin Carroll? Yeah.Chuck Warren: [00:53:00] Corbin Carroll, ten years.Sam Stone: [00:53:01] We're looking at the girl in the studio who's getting married to a professional ballplayer. And she doesn't.Chuck Warren: [00:53:05] She knows.Chuck Warren: [00:53:05] Nothing. She knows nothing. Corbin She hasn't.Sam Stone: [00:53:08] Even given us an update on the Idaho murders.Chuck Warren: [00:53:10] I believe. I believe Corbin Carroll signed a ten year deal. That's what everybody's been going on about early. They just tied him in. So. Okay.Sam Stone: [00:53:15] Well, thank goodness for that. Yeah.Chuck Warren: [00:53:17] By the way, anything before we close off on the Idaho murders that we should be aware of?Kiley Kipper: [00:53:20] No, not too much. I think they had like a few 20 days ago or something like that. They had 60 days to determine if he was going to get the death penalty or not. And then Brian Kielburger has now come out and said that he doesn't want cameras in the courtroom. So now that's the whole hot discussion is like, well, then let's have them, because why does he not want why do we care what he says?Speaker4: [00:53:40] Chuck.Sam Stone: [00:53:41] You okay with the death penalty? In this case?Chuck Warren: [00:53:44] I'm always okay of the death penalty.Speaker4: [00:53:46] It's a rare.Chuck Warren: [00:53:47] Exception that I'm not okay with the death penalty.Sam Stone: [00:53:50] And that's the final.Sam Stone: [00:53:51] Word today from Chuck.Chuck Warren: [00:53:54] Maybe with those 9% shoplifters you wrote about.Sam Stone: [00:53:56] Oh, yeah. No, we can start with them for sure.Sam Stone: [00:53:59] Right?Sam Stone: [00:54:00] Retail theft off with his head.Chuck Warren: [00:54:03] Sam, closing here. How much does it cost the average American annually for shoplifting?Sam Stone: [00:54:07] Yeah. So go go on. Our substack folks, because we ran the numbers on this Capital One putting out a survey and then I broke the numbers down $318 per person.Chuck Warren: [00:54:17] That's probably.Chuck Warren: [00:54:17] Undercounted and.Sam Stone: [00:54:18] That's undercounted. If you read the article, you realize that's the direct cross from the losses that they're taking from shoplifting. Then you add in all the additional security, the other measures that they're putting in place. Those things all cost money, too. There's probably a lot, as we saw with Lululemon, that's not reported because of politics, essentially where they're fired, two employees for even just reporting a theft to the police. I doubt they're reporting their numbers accurately and probably there's a bunch like them. This might be a $5,600 per person a year tax is what we're facing.Chuck Warren: [00:54:53] Well, and folks, if you are purchasing from Lululemon, realize there is a shoplifting tax assessed on your clothing, whether whether they listed or itemized it or not, you're paying for.Sam Stone: [00:55:03] It before they go to Lululemon, though, Chuck, and this is a free plug. Isn't your former assistants, Katrina, doesn't she have a a clothing line or company that she.Chuck Warren: [00:55:12] Works with a clothing line in Salt Lake knowing the ownership, they will not tolerate shoplifting.Chuck Warren: [00:55:17] So okay.Sam Stone: [00:55:18] What's the name? Do we do you know? Do I know?Chuck Warren: [00:55:21] We'll tell We'll put.Chuck Warren: [00:55:22] It on our social.Sam Stone: [00:55:23] On our substack. Yeah. Hey, look. Good opportunity to pay pay for a product from someone who actually feels the way you do.Chuck Warren: [00:55:29] Exactly. Well, folks, we hope you have a great weekend. We hope you enjoyed our guests today, both wonderful people to have on the show and we hope you share it. You can download our podcast, go to breaking battlegrounds, dot vote, share it, rate it. We'd appreciate it. Help our audience grow. Have a great weekend. Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, we are honored to be joined by Congressman Neal Dunn and Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart, both Republicans from Florida. Later in the program, sports journalist Ron Futrell calls in with his take on the A’s proposed move to Las Vegas. -Dr. Neal Dunn grew up in an Army family and was stationed at over 20 places before college including in Vietnam during middle school. He was an Eagle Scout and National Merit Scholar before matriculating at Washington and Lee University. After medical school at George Washington, he joined the US Army as a surgeon completing his residency at Walter Reed Army Medical Center (WRAMC) and Surgical Fellowship at Duke University. He continued his surgical career in many stations around the world before settling in Bay County, Florida in 1990. It was during his service at WRAMC in Washington that he met and married his wife Leah, of over 30 years.Dr. Dunn was a surgeon in Panama City for 25 years and was the founding president of the Advanced Urology Institute, a 45-physician practice with over 400 employees. He also founded the Bay Regional Cancer Center and pursued a special interest in advanced Prostate Cancer. He sat on the Governor's Prostate Cancer Advisory Council and the Florida Blue Physician Advisory Board. Prior to being elected to Congress, Dr. Dunn served on the Board of Governors of the Florida Medical Association, and as President of his County Medical Society, Chief of Staff of Gulf Coast Hospital, and Director of the Bay Medical Center Sacred Heart Joint Venture. He was recognized as a Healthcare Hero by the Florida Department of Health for his chairmanship of Bay Cares, a medical charity headquartered in Panama City that provided about $30 million of completely free medical care annually to the working poor in Bay and 8 surrounding counties.Dr. Dunn was also the founding Chairman of Summit Bank, a rapidly growing 5-star community bank headquartered in Panama City. He was honored to be named to the Board of Directors of Space Florida which operates the space launch complexes and numerous research, assembly, and support facilities on Cape Canaveral. He also served as a Director of Enterprise Florida, the state's economic development agency.Dr. Dunn lives in Panama City, Florida with his wife Leah. In his free time, he enjoys quail hunting and spending time on the water. They are the proud parents of 3 sons (Alexander, Patrick, and David) and 3 grandchildren.-Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart is currently fulfilling his 11th term in the U.S. House of Representatives, serving Florida’s 26th congressional district. Diaz-Balart is a senior member of the House Committee on Appropriations, and he is the Chairman of the State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs (SFOPS) Subcommittee, in addition to serving on the Transportation, Housing, and Urban Development (THUD) and Defense Subcommittees.Diaz-Balart passionately serves his constituents, acting tirelessly in defense of individual rights and liberties, promoting economic prosperity, and supporting a robust national defense. He is well-known for his advocacy of human rights and democracy around the world, as well as for his staunch support of our global allies. Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 2002, making him the Dean of the Florida Delegation and Deputy Whip in Congress. Prior to his time in Congress, Diaz-Balart served in the Florida State Legislature in both the House and Senate chambers. He chaired several committees, including the Combined Appropriations/Ways and Means/Finance and Tax Committee.Diaz-Balart was born on September 25, 1961, in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, to Rafael and Hilda Diaz-Balart and is the youngest of four brothers (Rafael, Lincoln, and Jose). He studied Political Science at the University of South Florida in Tampa. Diaz-Balart currently resides in Miami, Florida, with his wife, Tia, and son, Cristian Rafael.-Ron Futrell is a longtime journalist who has worked at a number of local TV/radio stations throughout the western United States. He has covered sports in Las Vegas since 1984. Ron began his broadcasting career in the early ’80s in Salt Lake City at KSXX radio and KTVX TV. From there, he covered sports and news at KNDO TV in Yakima, WA. Ron has covered Stanley Cup Finals, Super Bowls, World Series, NBA Finals and NCAA Championships. He has reported on virtually every major sporting event in Las Vegas over the past three decades, including major boxing and MMA events, NASCAR races, the rise and fall of UNLV basketball, the careers of local athletes like Greg Maddux, Andre Agassi, Randall Cunningham and Mike Tyson, along with many others. Ron is also well known for covering local high school and club sports in Las Vegas. Ron is perhaps best known in Las Vegas for his work covering UNLV basketball throughout its glory days. As host of the Jerry Tarkanian TV show for 10 years, Ron was able to get the inside story on one of most remarkable teams in college basketball history.Ron is also a journalism professor at University of Nevada Las Vegas and was the first to teach Sports Broadcasting classes at UNLV.Ron says some of his greatest moments covering sports have been sitting ringside at the Hagler/Hearns fight in 1985 at Caesars Palace, watching the UNLV Runnin’ Rebels win the basketball National Championship in 1990 and witnessing the tremendous success of the inaugural season of the Vegas Golden Knights in 2017-18. -Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds-TranscriptionSam Stone: [00:00:24] Welcome to another episode of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone. My co-host Chuck Warren, is out and traveling today. But some big news in the country and we are very excited to have Congressman Neal Dunn of Florida's second Congressional District. Congressman Dunn grew up in an Army family, was stationed in over 20 different locations, including in Vietnam. During middle school, he was an Eagle Scout National Merit Scholar, then went to Washington and Lee University, went to medical school at George Washington, joined the US Army as a surgeon, completed his residency at Walter Reed Medical Center. Folks, I'm going on and on and on because this is the kind of resume, frankly, we need a lot more of in Congress. People who have real accomplishments. You're too kind. Well, you know what, Congressman? I mean, how many people in Congress right now have an actual medical background?Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:01:20] Well, there are 17 doctors.Sam Stone: [00:01:23] Honestly. Okay. I'm actually shocked. That's more than I thought. And there were only.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:01:27] Nine when I got here, but we're adding so.Sam Stone: [00:01:30] Good. Well, see, I mean, frankly, I think that's pretty valuable given how much of the medical industry comes under the purview of Congress these days.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:01:39] It's very important.Sam Stone: [00:01:41] So before we get into more of that and and I do want to talk a little bit about your background, but obviously the big conversation that's lighting up the country right now is the agreement over the debt ceiling. Yes, Speaker McCarthy put together an agreement and despite the best efforts of the national press to pretend that never happened, uh, negotiations did conclude very recently an agreement was signed. Now, you did vote for it. I did. And as Chuck and I have said here many times, we would also and tell folks why.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:02:17] Well, so this, you know, is certainly one of those tough calls that we face in Congress. It's it's why the job can be difficult. You know, this this first off, we should say this bill really does cut the spending. So President Biden had come forth with a budget and we went after that budget to say we got a this is way too much. It's it's the kind of budget that caused the inflation that we're suffering with. And so we managed to I say we, you know, and actually the credit should go to Speaker McCarthy and the negotiation team led by Garret Graves and they just did a brilliant job getting the getting that number down by 4.8 trillion with a T trillion dollars over the the ten year window. And so that that's a big savings. There's never been a cut on the president's budget, anything like that big in history.Sam Stone: [00:03:13] A trillion here, a trillion there. Pretty soon you're talking real money.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:03:17] Yeah and you know, we used to say a million and a million here. Now it's trillions. You're right. It's it's it is. It is real money. Now let's let's don't kid ourselves. This is just a first step because the debt is still going to glide somewhat higher over the next ten years. There's going to be increased. There's still we're still going to be borrowing money. We're still going to be facing, you know, the situation where we're spending more than we're bringing in. And we have to go after that, too. But we really got some good wins on this bill. One of the things that should appeal to everybody was we we kept the IRS from getting any more new agents this year or next. And then, of course, we'll have to fight that in the 20 in the 25 appropriations process again. But bearing in mind we only control one House, the House and.Sam Stone: [00:04:12] Senate control one House.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:04:13] Yeah, very with a narrow majority. This is really a remarkable bill given the the sort of weak hand that we had to play. And so I was actually, you know, you could always wish for more. My God, yes, you could wish for more. But we did manage to protect the the defense budget entirely. So we plussed it up from the president. And and we get we this is no time to cut on the military. We got too many threats around the world right now. And we also kept the veterans intact. But everybody else took a little bath.Sam Stone: [00:04:47] Well, as they had to. I mean, the run up in spending in the last few years has been extraordinary. It has. This is the first step in starting to rein that back in it. How important was it not to default? Because I think a lot of people out there were expecting you know, there's some folks in the Republican Party saying they expected more. They wanted a more, you know, more drastic.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:05:12] It's really irresponsible to default on on debt. Let let let me see if I can underline that. So the the importance of a strong dollar, the fact that the global economy is dollarized is as important as having a strong military. It's that important. So a strong US dollar is fundamental to the national security and frankly, to the stability of the world system.Sam Stone: [00:05:39] And so and and from what I understand and different economists have slightly different takes. But if the US were to lose our status, which is is clearly there are countries trying to take it away as the as the world reserve currency that would be something like an instant 15% tax increase on every single American.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:05:58] That's right. And you would be far less safe as well.Sam Stone: [00:06:03] Absolutely. And you have an interesting background. We got into it a little bit earlier. You know, obviously amazing background with the military surgical fellowship at Duke University. Um, but you also have a background in banking and in finance.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:06:21] Yeah, I do. So, you know, what happened is I got out of the military. I'd always been getting a paycheck all my life, and I'm in private practice, and all of a sudden I'm running a private practice. And I didn't really know how to run a business at all. So I approached it like a, you know, another school course. Okay, we got to study this thing and figure out how how businesses work and and how to report and how to account for the money. And I had a great deal of help, frankly, in my I moved into a town I live in Panama City, Florida. And my patience, I'm in a surgical specialty that tends to have these older guys as patients. And so they were a lot of businessmen and they mentored me all the way through this. And among my mentors was a banker. And he he graciously spent some years teaching me about banking. And and eventually I got the bug bit and we started a bank of our own. So and it did very well. I was very pleased with it. We kept it for about a dozen years.Sam Stone: [00:07:21] Well, and that's an amazing story too, because, you know, not only do you have the experience in the medical industry, but also the financial industry. So when you go to Congress, you're coming in with a great deal to contribute right off the top based on those experiences, right?Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:07:39] Yes. And I think, by the way, the business and the banking experience was very helpful. When we come up here and we start throwing around numbers like trillions of dollars, you know, that's a scary number to throw at a banker. You know, people start talking about defaulting on that and you go, boy. Put the gun down and back away. This is dangerous stuff you're talking about.Sam Stone: [00:08:01] Oh, absolutely. Now I'm laughing and joking about this a little bit, but this is really deadly serious stuff. It is.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:08:10] It's deadly serious.Sam Stone: [00:08:11] And the the consequences of the default would have been so dramatic that I want to say thank you to you and your colleagues who had the courage to see this process through.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:08:23] Well, thank you. And I'll tell you what, I hope that we get back together in a year and we find out that we've also fought the fought the the people want to spend all this money to have standstill yet again on the appropriations next year, too.Sam Stone: [00:08:36] So that's actually one of the things I was about to get to. And I'm glad you went there first, is this isn't the hill to die on. The the full faith and credit of the United States is not the hill to go out there and die on and say we're going to hold our ground no matter what.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:08:51] Yeah, this is not the place to throw a hissy fit. I mean, we we absolutely have to, you know, meet our debt. This is why the world depends on the United States. If we default on our debt, you know, all of a sudden we become a lot less important to everybody.Sam Stone: [00:09:09] Yeah, absolutely. But there is a place to do that, to have that fight. Right. And that's absolutely in the future here in the next couple of years with the various budget processes.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:09:21] There's a lot of places to have that fight. One of them would be in November at the ballot box. But, you know, if you really feel strongly about the debt, then don't elect a bunch of people and don't nominate a bunch of people who can't get elected to office that are that are going to be irresponsible with with the dollar. You know, this stuff really matters to our children and our grandchildren. I have grandchildren, so I tend to have a longer horizon. But, you know, it's important that we don't we don't hurt them.Sam Stone: [00:09:55] Yeah, you can. You can make mistakes. Now that will take away so much of the opportunities in their future. That's right.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:10:03] And there's another side to this. And I get this, too, when people say that, you know, well, we're we're swimming in debt. We are right now. The every man, woman and child in America has about $4 million in federal debt. $4 million.Sam Stone: [00:10:18] I don't have $4 million to give you, Congressman.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:10:21] Well, I was going to ask you for that later in the show.Sam Stone: [00:10:25] Well, I don't know. Maybe the ratings from this show will go through the roof. And, you know, next year you'll be able to collect. I don't know. But, you know, but in the meantime, one of the you made a great point there. I thought about not nominating people who can't get elected. Um, I always love the Reagan maxim. I want to nominate the most conservative person I can get elected. Right.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:10:51] That was, you know, that was really pretty simple truth that he that he used to say he had a lot of quick little aphorisms like that that really cut right down to the bottom line.Sam Stone: [00:11:01] He he was so good at that and so good at narrowing things down for the public in a way that they could understand and taking complex issues and making them accessible. Uh, I think great.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:11:15] Communicator.Sam Stone: [00:11:16] Yeah, we miss that too often. Um, so we only have about two minutes left in this segment. We're going to be coming back here with more from Congressman Neal Dunn of Florida's second Congressional District shortly. Um, we want to talk a little bit, too, about your Bacares medical charity there in Panama City, because I think I think a lot of times people don't, um, people think of Congress, members of Congress, only in that one role.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:11:46] Yeah, I think you're right. They do think he's a congressman. What did he do in real life? Yeah.Sam Stone: [00:11:51] Yeah. I think too often that's the case. And you've done a ton in real life. So I want to touch a little bit more about that. Also, when we come back here and we're going to have a little bit of discussion on what what we're going to be doing, what you're going to be doing in Congress going forward the next few months. I want to, you know, what should the American people be watching out for? Okay. So when breaking battlegrounds comes back in just a moment, we'll hit on more of that. Folks, thank you for tuning in. Be sure to download our podcast, go to breaking battlegrounds dot vote. You can get all of our past episodes. There we are on Substack, Spotify, Apple Podcasts. Anywhere you get your podcasts, breaking battlegrounds is there. We will be back with more from Congressman Dunn in just a moment. All right. Welcome back to Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Sam Stone. Chuck Warren out of studio today. On the line with us, Congressman Neal Dunn of Florida's second Congressional District. We've been talking about the debt ceiling. We've been talking about some of his background, which is just amazing. But right now, we want to talk about what is coming up in Congress. What are the next issues that are going to be on your plate there?Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:13:33] Well, so we do tend to give everybody sort of subspecialized. And I sit on the Energy and Commerce Committee, which is also home to the big health care committee. So we do health care policy, but we also do energy and and all the foreign and domestic trade policy. So I don't have to tell you that energy's been a big, big subject lately. We want to reestablish energy independence. We know how to do this. We did it very nicely in the last administration, and we did in that same debt ceiling bill. We included a whole bunch of streamlining for energy projects, in fact, for all large building projects. So we took that environmental permitting process and capped it at two years and actually made the the regulatory agencies liable to be sued if they don't make those environmental statements and rulings within two years. And I offer as an example, the Atlanta airport where they just added a runway after nine years working on it. And the first seven of those nine years were just permitting, didn't move a shovel full of earth, and then they built it in two years. So we need to get that permitting process down a lot. It takes about 20 years to permit a mine for anything you want to mine in this country. And that's that's just an impossible obstacle to overcome in any kind of affordable way. Yeah.Sam Stone: [00:15:02] Well, we our broadcast studio is I think most people know is in Arizona. There has been a project here called the Rosemont Mine. I think the names have changed on it a few dozen times now. I know personally because I've been dealing with it, that process has gone on close to 20 years now. It could be one of the largest copper mines in the world. Copper is desperately needed for all of these electric vehicles, for the phones, for the computers and and the opposition to it. This this baffles me, Congressman, the opposition to it, we're told by the environmental movement and I agree with them in this, that we have one planet, that this.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:15:39] Is one same people who want everything to go electric will prevent you from mining or refining any of the things you need to make electricity and batteries and all this stuff. It's really it's it's almost childishly foolish.Sam Stone: [00:15:53] Well, I think it's worse than that, Congressman, because not only do they do all that here, but then they turn a blind eye to China to all these.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:16:01] Glad you said that, because all the.Sam Stone: [00:16:02] Countries around the world that do this with the worst environmental controls imaginable.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:16:07] Unbelievably bad. You're right. They have no environmental controls, whatever. China is another subject we're going to be spending a lot of time on. I sit on the China Select Committee. And so this is a select committee that looking at China as a as an adversary in terms of competing in everything, including militarily speaking. And we're peeling back the layers of of of how deep China is embedded into our economy and our lives. And let me tell you, it's awful. It's just awful. They have they have really stolen a lot of marches on us. They're making headway in South America. They're making headway across the Pacific, in Asia, in Africa. And and everybody is is very dependent on their production.Sam Stone: [00:16:51] Well, one of the one of our very recent guests was former Afghan Special Forces General Sami Sadat, who detailed how much China has moved into Afghanistan, taking over the mining and the industry there. As soon as we stepped out that there.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:17:08] It turns out that Afghanistan has a lot of rich mining of minerals in it and the Chinese aren't hesitant to go after it. They're also running Bagram Air Base, the one we we abandoned there the one night. No.Sam Stone: [00:17:21] It's it's every time I hear you more about what we did in Afghanistan on our way out the door, the more embarrassing that whole episode becomes. I mean, we really put ourselves in a difficult position internationally with that move.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:17:35] I can't say enough bad about that. I was on active duty when the Saigon fell. And and I have to tell you, I thought that was the most humiliating moment of my life for the military, for our country. And I didn't think it would ever happen again in Afghanistan actually was worse. I couldn't believe I was stunned. And of course, the really bad news here is Russia saw that, Putin saw that. And he said, oh, I know what they'll do if I invade Ukraine. Nothing. And so he was. Began massing troops on the border of Ukraine while we were still evacuating people out of that humiliating mess. And of course, China's looked at it and saw the same thing. He said, Ah, Taiwan is next. Honestly, I think if Putin had managed to roll up Ukraine the way he thought he was going to, JI would have been in Taiwan the next week. So you put it that way. You realize the Ukrainians are not just defending Eastern Europe, they're defending Taiwan, the whole Indo pack.Sam Stone: [00:18:37] Well, and and the rest of their region. Right. All those Baltic states are are at enormous risk. And Russia has said Putin has said they want to recreate the Iron Curtain. They want to rebuild the Soviet empire.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:18:51] They absolutely do. And you know this people think this is just like a one off aggression. This is the ninth invasion. Putin has stated started ninth. So this is just one in a long string. You know, you're going to fight this war in Ukraine or you're going to fight with Americans in Poland.Sam Stone: [00:19:08] Mhm. Yeah. And Poland certainly all, you know, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, all of those is.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:19:16] Probably even before Poland.Sam Stone: [00:19:17] Yeah. And those states are, are fantastic growing economies that are contributing to the world and Yeah. And hugely democratic, hugely capitalist and.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:19:28] They're Article five nations in NATO which means we're we are tied to them.Sam Stone: [00:19:32] Absolutely. We have just about two minutes before we have to go here. But I did want to touch on something else you've done, which is Bacares, a medical charity headquartered in Panama City. Um, tell us what what you've done there, because that's a really amazing story.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:19:48] You know, I was really gratified to do that. So Florida has a system where we call it's the we Care system where if doctors or hospitals, clinics, labs, whatever, will donate free medical care, they get sovereign immunity from the state. So they can't be sued. No liability. And and so we find that medical personnel are very much more willing to to deliver care for free if it's accompanied by sovereign immunity. And so I was able to recruit in my relatively small area. We had nine counties we were serving. But so it was probably a total population of 400,000, not not a giant city. We were able to get $30 million a year in free, utterly free medical care, just people willing to donate, doctors, you know, hospitals and and clinics of all types, diagnostic centers, pharmacies, $30 million a year in that little town.Sam Stone: [00:20:47] That's a huge amount of quality medical care that your residents are getting for free, because.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:20:52] I ran it for a number of years, but I had to give it up when I came to Congress. And it's still in good hands back in Panama City. So if anybody in Panama City or anywhere around Panama City is watching this, you can you can donate your services to Bacares.Sam Stone: [00:21:06] Fantastic. Congressman, before we wrap up here, how do folks follow you and your work and stay in touch with everything you're doing?Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:21:12] Thank you so much for letting me share that. So on Twitter, it's at Dr. Neal Dunn Fl2 and I spell Neal n e a l. Dr. Neal Dunn, Florida two. And on Facebook, it's Congressman Neal Dunn, MD.Sam Stone: [00:21:28] Perfect. Thank you so much, Congressman. We really appreciate having you on the program. We'll look forward to having you back on again in the future.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [00:21:35] Thanks so much. I hope we have as much good news. Next time.Sam Stone: [00:21:38] Cross your fingers, folks. Are you concerned with stock market volatility, especially with Joe Biden in office? If you are, go to investyrefy.com, you can earn up to a 10.25% fixed rate of return that's investyrefy.com or call them at 888Y, refi 24 and tell them Chuck and Sam sent you. Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Chuck Next up on the line with us right now, Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart fulfilling his 11th term in the US House of Representatives, serving Florida's 26th Congressional District. He is a member a senior member of the House Committee on Appropriations, chairman of the State Foreign Operations and Related Programs Subcommittee, and also serves on some other key committees Transportation, Housing and Urban Development and Defense. So, Congressman, you are you are covering the spectrum on policy there in Washington right now. That's actually pretty darn impressive.Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:22:46] Look, I'm a blessed person to be able to be in a situation, in a position to be able to fight for things that I think are important for our country. And obviously, whether it's defense, whether it's foreign policy, whether it's infrastructure, those are issues that I spend a lot of my time on. But as well as, you know, I, I was the main sponsor of the of the, you know, border security bill. So there are a lot of things that I've been able to because of first, the folks who sent me to D.C. and then the confidence in my colleagues I've been able to to get involved in a lot of different issues. You're absolutely right.Chuck Warren: [00:23:21] So you are a sponsor of H.R. two. Yes, And it has. So we tell us a little bit about the the details regarding border security on that and then take some time and tell us how does this help people bring in with work visas? One thing I think people misrepresent Republicans about is we still allow about 1.2 million people to come into the country legally every year. I mean, that's not a minor number.Sam Stone: [00:23:47] Right. And I've never met a Republican who wasn't willing to have a conversation about legal immigration.Chuck Warren: [00:23:52] And I've never met a Republican who says cut that number. Right. So first of all, tell us about the border security details of H.R., H.R. two, please, and then let's discuss the other items.Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:24:02] Yeah, look, HR.2 first, you know, we before the elections, Kevin McCarthy, again, he wasn't speaker. He put together the Republicans and said, let's come up with a commitment to America. What is our agenda going to be? One of those was securing the border. And, you know, I was fortunate to be one of the people that helped draft that component of it. We won by a very slim margin, but we won the majority in the House, only in the House, unfortunately. And then we wanted to make sure that we deliver on the commitment, on the promise that we made to the American people. So H.R.1 dealt with energy energy independence. H.R.2 is border security. So there were a lot of Republican bills filed out there to deal with the bleeding that we are experiencing on the southern border. And I say bleeding. This administration has literally given the control, has totally just who decides now who comes across the southern border to the United States are the drug cartels and not to mention the fence and all that's coming across the southern border, the terrorists that we know are coming across the southern border. And then, by the way, a lot of victims that are being used by the cartels and are being brought across.Sam Stone: [00:25:07] Can I stop and ask for for some clarification? I'm certainly not asking you to throw your colleagues under the bus, but do a lot of the Democrats who have kind of resisted this border security, do they understand how much the control has been ceded to the cartels? And and what you just said that you do not cross that border without the permission of the cartels at this point?Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:25:28] Well, but I'll answer your question. But to your point, if anybody thinks that an individual can come from a country and, you know, somehow get us to the southern border and walk across, that's not possible. The cartels will kill you. The this is a monopoly controlled by these narco terrorist cartels. Different cartels have different part of the southern border. That's who determines who comes across 100%. And so and do my Democratic colleagues understand that? Some do You know, you have folks like Henry Cuellar who who has been one of the most outspoken people in telling the administration this has to stop. We have a problem here. But it seems that many are just okay with that or and the administration seems to be okay with that. The secretary of Homeland security continues to say that the southern border is secure, which is insanity, because he wants us to believe him and not our very own eyes.Chuck Warren: [00:26:21] So we have about 90s to a break. Congressman, why do you think they feel that way? That it's just okay? I mean, there has to be a reason you've talked to them enough. Is there have you ever heard a good justification or reasoning why they think this is just okay?Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:26:34] No, I haven't I haven't heard any good explanation from the administration or anybody else as to why this is okay. Why handing over to the cartels the southern border is okay. Why 300 Americans dying every single day? Because of of of of of a product that's coming across the southern border is okay. While you know why hundreds of 900 migrants dying just last year is humane, there is no good explanation. That's why I'm so proud of H.R. 2. And the colleagues, the Republican colleagues have put this together.Sam Stone: [00:27:03] Fantastic. Congressman, when we. Come back. We're going to have more from Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart of Florida. Congressman, before we we go there, I want to give folks your Twitter handle because I think it's very important they stay up with the work you're doing. Folks, you can follow him at at Mario DB on Twitter there. Great opportunity to stay in touch with his work. Breaking battlegrounds is going to be coming back with more from the congressman in just a moment. We want to get into some of the specific provisions that are in this bill, but also we want to touch on some of the other work you're doing, including the Parents Bill of Rights and the recent trip you made to the Dominican Republic. All that and more when breaking battlegrounds comes back. Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Moran. I'm Sam Stone. Folks, are you concerned with stock market volatility, especially with Joe Biden in office? What if you can invest in a portfolio with a high fixed rate of return that's not correlated to the stock market? You can make up to 10.25% fixed rate of return. And when you invest with a refi, you're actually helping people get their private student loans paid off sooner, helping them restore their credit. And you make a fantastic return on your money. This is the this is the definition of capitalism, folks. This is people helping people. So give them a call today at eight, eight, eight, 8524 or go online at investing. Com that's invest the letter Y then Syfy.com and let them know Chuck and Sam sent you. Okay. Coming back with more from Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart. When we went to break, we were talking about the immigration bill, H.R. two. Congressman, what are some of the specific provisions in there, both relating to border security and to legal immigration that people should be aware of?Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:29:05] Well, look, first, it secures the border. It finishes the construction of the wall. It provides more personnel and increases the salary of those heroes who are struggling to protect our border. So, again, a lot of common sense border security, things like that. But to your point, one of the things that should also be upsetting and, you know, you wonder why to your question before we we broke. Right. What are the Democrats say about this? Nothing good. But but if the others who are suffering, it's not only our national security interests, it's not only the rule of law, it's also those who are actually who potentially have legitimate asylum claims because they can't get their legitimate claims heard. So among the things that this bill also does is it it frankly modernizes it streamlines the actual real process for those who have legitimate asylum claims so that they can have their claims actually adjudicated. And it also even has a particular area there for folks who come, for example, from this hemisphere, from Venezuela or Cuba or Nicaragua that you would think have the likeliest chance of having legitimate claims. Well, they can't get their claims heard because of the disaster created by the Biden administration. So this deals with that as well. It's not only border security that's the main issue. It's the secure the border, but it also makes the legal system a little bit better. Does it solve every problem? No, it secures the border. It stops this horrific situation that is inhumane, that is a threat to our national security and also provides some avenues for those who have legitimate claims, for example, legitimate asylum claims.Chuck Warren: [00:30:41] Where the congressman, Mario Diaz-Balart, if you're in the Miami area, you can catch this interview on Newsradio 6:10 a.m. So you live in Miami Dade and it's it's a it's a county, Sam, and I've been to many times it's full of immigrants. What do they think your Venezuelan Colombians, your Cubans, what do they think about the border crisis? What are your constituents tell you about this?Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:31:04] You know, they understand that one of the reasons that one of the reasons that immigrants have always come to this country, I don't care if you get you came here, you know, five generations ago or if you're coming now, it's because of the rule of law. The rule of law is what makes everything else possible and that you have to adhere to the rule of law. And so immigrants who are in this country and I represent a heck of a lot of of of, you know, Americans who are, again, first generations or or foreign born Americans. They understand that you have to adhere to the rule of law. That is the reason that everybody wants to come to the United States. That's the reason this is the country of opportunity. It's the rule of law. It's the free market system. But you can't have a free market system or you can't have anything. You can't have security without adhering to the rule of law. And that's why, again, this bill is very strong on that adhering bringing back the rule of law to the southern border and to those communities in the southern border that are struggling because of the policies of the Biden administration.Sam Stone: [00:32:10] Congressman, here in Arizona, I've found in talking to first generation immigrants and a lot of people in that, you know, obviously predominantly Mexican American community here, they have a much better understanding than a lot of folks out there of how the cartels, you know, really abuse the people that are coming across the predations that they inflict upon them. Do you do you get that? And, you know, I my experience in Florida is you get that plus people who have maybe a little bit better understanding of communism than we often do here. Does the Republican Party need to do a better job of emphasizing those voices?Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:32:46] I mean, I think we can always do better. I know that in Florida, by the way, and, you know, look at look at the election and the re-election of Governor Ron DeSantis. Right. Remember, Ron DeSantis got a group of immigrants who got here across the southern border and he sent them to a sanctuary community. That publicly expressed that they are a sanctuary place and that they have they want, you know, folks, even if they're here unlawfully, to to go to Martha's Vineyard. So this governor sent people over there not to be punitive, but to actually say, look, if you've got opportunities for them, you want them there. Here we go. And then what happened that immediately. Martha's Vineyard, by the way, put them on buses and they put them in a military base. So the sanctuary committee there in New York is another sanctuary, right, city. They're sanctuary cities until anybody shows up and then they immediately want them out of there.Sam Stone: [00:33:40] They're fine. Sticking them on border towns in Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, all the way into Florida. They just don't want them in their community no matter what they say. Talk is.Chuck Warren: [00:33:50] Cheap.Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:33:51] Yeah, look, it's. It's like socialist. Socialist or socialist for everybody else, not for me. Right. And and, you know, you want everybody to drive bicycles, but want to be able to have my car. Right. That's socialism 101.Sam Stone: [00:34:02] They. They all envision themselves like the Soviet leadership driving down their exclusive lane on the middle of Nevsky Prospekt.Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:34:10] Correct. That's exactly right. Socialism. Socialism is really good for everybody else, but not for them. Right. And and, you know, government control is they want to be able to impose their views on everybody else but don't not on them. Right. And and which is why, again, look, this country is based on individual freedom, on the rule of law, on opportunity. And the reason this country has been and continues to be the wealthiest, the most generous, the greatest country in the history of humanity is because of individual freedom and opportunity and the rule of law. And, you know, you mentioned folks who have come here by choice. They get that. They understand that. And one sympathizes with these victims, by the way, that the cartels are using and abusing. But the reality is that you have to adhere to the law and the rule of law. Otherwise, nothing else is.Chuck Warren: [00:35:00] Possible with Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart. He's in Miami Dade County. You can catch him on Twitter at Mario DB. All right. We're going to give you the softball question. You're introducing a new bill here in two weeks. Tell our audience a little bit about it.Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:35:14] Yeah, well, I chair the subcommittee. I'm my privilege that my colleagues have put me to chair the subcommittee, that the House subcommittee of Appropriations Subcommittee that funds everything have to do with foreign policy. That includes, by the way, funding for the UN. That includes funding for our allies like Israel, that includes funding for the State Department and so much more. And so a couple of things. Number one is we're going to be spending a heck of a lot less money than the Democrats have been spending because they've been wasting money and we're going to be responsible. So we're going to be spending a hell of a lot less money, number one. Number two is, to me, it's very simple. If you're an ally of the United States and if you're helping our national security interests, I think this bill will recognize that in a positive way. But if you're in cahoots with our enemies, if you are targeting our allies, this bill is also going to recognize that in a way that they're not going to like. Foreign policy has to be dictated on one thing and one thing alone. The national security interests of the United States.Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:36:09] After that, you have a lot of things that are important, human rights, etcetera. But it's all based on one thing the national security interest of the United States. So we're going back to some pretty basic things that the Democrats have totally forgotten about. Democrats love to, you know, fund things that have nothing to do with our national security interests. We're cutting all that. They like to fund folks and entities that are frankly not helping us are not on our side. I'm not willing to look the other way. I'm not willing to look the other way. If you have international organizations that are targeting Israel or that are targeting the United States, I'm not willing to look the other way. It's going to be a there's going to be all sorts of criticism when I drop that bill, when I file that bill. But I will tell you, I'm very proud because we're going back to basics. If you're pro-American, then we're going to be trying to help you. And if you're in cahoots with our adversaries, you're going to suffer the consequences in my bill.Sam Stone: [00:37:00] I love that, Congressman Chuck, because frankly, what other country on earth does their government not work to protect their own people? We there's there's this push on the left that seems like our job in our government is to protect everybody but Americans.Chuck Warren: [00:37:13] So you are the dean of the Florida delegation. You've been around the block a couple times now.Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:37:18] You're calling me old. Yeah.Chuck Warren: [00:37:19] I'm calling it. I'm old, Sam. We're all his old people are old guys. Rule. Okay. My question is, what keeps you up at night? I mean, what is the one thing that you know, because you see very sensitive documents that we don't have access to. What keeps you up that you fret about? I mean, obviously, you know, a lot of things seem to work themselves out. I always feel America will end up doing the right thing long term. But what keeps you up at night? Like, holy moly, this is bad.Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:37:46] Yeah. You know, I don't know if I've been asked that question, but I think I can answer it relatively simply. Number one is obviously our fiscal situation, our debt, and that we waste so much money on things that we shouldn't be doing. And then and then the other thing that keeps me. Is China, which is the existential threat, and they're both tied together. We waste money on things that frankly do nothing or actually do us harm. And then we don't spend enough resources, enough money on, frankly, confronting the existential threat today, tomorrow, and for the decades in the future. And that's China. We have to have the strongest defense. We're not doing enough there. And we have to have a strong economy, which means we have to stop misspending money.Sam Stone: [00:38:30] That is one thing. Chuck, I was a little dismayed about in this budget that is being discussed in the debt ceiling deal is a reduction again in the number of naval vessels that are under the US flag. I mean, we.Chuck Warren: [00:38:42] Should be at 350. That's that's what our strategy is, 350 ships and we're at what, 280?Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:38:47] Yeah. And China is building them. You know, like by the time we finish this podcast, they probably have built already another ship, right? So China is is a real danger. Look, we we have to confront we have this issue of our debt and that's because we are mis spending so much money and we need to be much better stewards of the people's money. And obviously, the Democrats have been on the spending spree. But it's not only the Democrats in the past. Let's be very clear. We have to do a better job. But on the other hand, we cannot deal with defense as a number. Ronald Reagan used it, to paraphrase him, used to say defense is not a budgetary issue. We have to avoid war at all costs. The way to do that is to have the toughest, the strongest military in the entire planet. China is a real threat. So we can we spend more on defense while still dealing with our debt. Yes, we can, because defense is still something that we have to do. We have to, by the way, reform the programs that are causing the debt. A lot of that. For example, Social Security and Medicare, we have to defend and protect those, but we also have to reform them, reform them to make sure that we have those for future generations so we can do both things, spend more and spend more wisely on defense to confront China while we deal with the other big threat, which is our escalating national debt.Chuck Warren: [00:40:07] Congressman, do you feel there's a danger within the Republican Party of this strident, isolationist wing that they just seem to want to ignore the world and don't realize when we ignore it, the world is in trouble, which means we're in trouble?Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:40:21] Well, look, you know, I don't want to be critical of I try to adhere to the again, once again talking about Ronald Reagan. Right. He talked about the 11th commandment. Right. Which is not to ever say negative things about other Republicans. And so I won't do that. And I wish all Republicans had that same attitude because there's a lot of things that we need to talk about that the Democrats are doing wrong and they're helping to destroy this country. Right. So but but I will tell you that we have to treat defense not as a number. We have to look at defenses. What do we need to confront China? Whatever it costs, then we have to deal with everything else. Because if we do not get defense right, nothing else will matter. And the way to avoid war is to which is really obviously the number one goal. Number one goal is to have the toughest, the strongest, the most agile, the most lethal defense in the planet so that China and others do not dare confront the United States. Are we there now? No, we are not. We can do better, but we also have to deal with the debt. Those are not mutually exclusive if we're smart about how we spend our money.Sam Stone: [00:41:25] Yeah, absolutely. Great point. Before we go, Congressman, we have just about one minute left here on the program, and we thank you very much for joining us. We look forward to having you on again. Folks, if you want to follow him on Twitter, it's at Mario. Db Fantastic opportunity to stay up with one of the folks who's helping lead our foreign policy engagement in a really smart and intelligent way. So, Congressman, thank you so much for joining us here. I'm going to throw kind of a softball at you. How much do we need to focus on stripping back the the barriers that are preventing us from building things the way we did 50 years ago in this country?Mario Diaz-Balart: [00:42:06] Oh, it's nuts. It's nuts. And most of that is government regulation. You know, we went from being energy independent, which was a dream. We actually became energy independent just two years ago to now, in essence, depending mostly on Chinese goods, Chinese solar panels. It's insanity. These are government created problems if you just unleash the American people. It's amazing what they have done and what they will continue to do. A lot of times the problem well, the problem is the federal government.Sam Stone: [00:42:36] That's the last word right there. Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart, thank you so much for joining us. Folks. Be sure to tune in again next week and download our podcast segment. We have a very full podcast segment for you this week, breaking battlegrounds back on the air one week from today. All right, Welcome to the podcast. Only segment of breaking battlegrounds. Packed show today. But one thing Chuck and I always love is sports. And there's a lot going on in one particular town in this country. Las Vegas, been in the news for a lot of sporting reasons.Chuck Warren: [00:43:13] Viva! Viva Las Vegas!Sam Stone: [00:43:14] Viva! Viva! Viva! Everything. Las Vegas. Viva is.Chuck Warren: [00:43:18] Right. Viva as Ron Years ago.Sam Stone: [00:43:20] But we didn't actually introduce him, so we got to introduce Ron Futrell, a longtime journalist. He's worked in a number of local TV and radio stations throughout the western United States, and he's covered sports in Las Vegas since 1984. Began his broadcasting career in the 80s in Salt Lake City. And from there, he's covered sports and news pretty much all across the western United States. Ron, welcome to the program.Ron Futrell: [00:43:44] It's a long time. I've been here almost 40 years.Chuck Warren: [00:43:46] Yeah, It doesn't show, though. It doesn't show. That's amazing.Sam Stone: [00:43:50] We don't actually admit to those things on this podcast. Ron, it was yesterday. You arrived yesterday?Ron Futrell: [00:43:56] Yeah, yesterday. I will say this and this sort of remarkable. The first the first event I covered in Las Vegas was April 5th, 1984, at the Thomas and Mack Center. The Utah Jazz were playing a split schedule then because not a whole lot of fans were going to the Salt Palace. And Sam Battistone, the owner, wanted to see if Vegas could be a market for them. And he was thinking about moving the team here. And it just so happened that the night that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar set the all time NBA scoring record should have been in Salt Lake at the Salt Palace, But it was in Las Vegas at the new Thomas and Mack Center. And I was three days on the job and I'm covering that. And, of course, it's been significant lately because Lobos broke that record. That's a record that stood for almost 40 years. And and so that and I think what it did also is.Sam Stone: [00:44:49] Wait a minute.Ron Futrell: [00:44:51] If we don't start showing up to games. They were getting 8000 a game there in Salt Lake at the time and fans reacted showed up and and the rest is history. Now the Utah Jazz have a permanent home there in Salt Lake and.Chuck Warren: [00:45:04] And beloved up there a matter of fact I think the Utah Jazz is a good Segway. So the Utah Jazz are a unifying force in Utah. No one would disagree. Democrat, Republican, non LDS, LDS. You and I talked a decade ago when we were working on a project together and we were talking about what a difference a professional sports team would mean to Las Vegas and Nevada. It would be a unifying force. Have you has that come to fruition now that you have this great hockey team? You have the Raiders and you have the A's possibly coming, which we'll talk about here in a minute. How do you see that in the community?Ron Futrell: [00:45:35] Yes, it certainly has with the Knights. I mean, you had it years ago. I covered Unlv basketball in the glory days, and it's been now 33 years since they won the national championship against Duke. A lot of people remember that Unlv, Duke Matchups and the 1990 national championship team that won it all. And I was at both of those Final Fours and covered them extensively. But but that that did unite Las Vegas, certainly that everybody in town were rebel fans and out of town. Either you hated or you loved the rebels, but they always elicited a response, which I think the NCAA loved. And it's the Golden Knights did that, especially the first year. Now we're talking six years ago when they went to the when they went to the the Stanley Cup final lost to Washington at that time. But it was the same feeling here in town. I've always been jealous going to San Diego to Petco Park and seeing the Padres and the Gaslamp district, and I see a bunch of locals there hanging out and it seems like everybody knows everybody else and it's family and friends getting together and and hanging out and having a good time. And I've been jealous that Vegas didn't have that. Well, we do now with the Knights. We do with the aviators, which is a ballpark minor league team for the A's up in Summerland. And you can go there and you can hang out, have a it's a beautiful ballpark. I would suggest you go check it out at some point, but you now have that. As for the Raiders, I don't know. I mean, I'll say I'll say you can get the same thing. But there's the NFL is much more tribal in in that you're a Raiders fan or you're not or you hate the Raiders or you don't you know so so it doesn't do that in the same in the same sense because of the nature of the Raiders and the nature nature of the NFL.Sam Stone: [00:47:25] Do you think, Ron, I kind of got to two questions, maybe related sort of. One is I think the Knights really, really benefited from that early run of success that establishes them in the community, you know, rather than, for instance, an expansion team having a very long build up period. They're losing a ton of games for a decade, but two with the Raiders. I really thought and I think this of the A's too, they should not keep their name. They should have adopted a Vegas specific name for that team and rebranded it.Ron Futrell: [00:47:58] The okay know that. Well, they have tried to rebrand it in one sense. The NFL didn't want the Raiders to have that. You know, the areas with all with all the crazy black hole the black hole area. Right. They just they sort of disbanded that in the sense now the club still exists, but they put all those people in, spread them out all over the stadium so they didn't have a specific black hole area. And I think the NFL I know the NFL did not like the Raiders bad boy image and branding and that they wanted to try to do away with that coming to Vegas. And I think it was best to do that, quite frankly. You know, they still kept part of it. You can't totally get rid of the ice cube feel of Southern California at that time when the Raiders adopted that that that feel. But it's yeah the image I don't know about changing the name I mean the Raiders brand is still it I mean it's still the brand I don't I don't think the athletics changed their name if they come here. No because they've they've moved four times. This would be their fourth move and they've kept that for over 100, 120 years. They've had that.Sam Stone: [00:49:09] I agree. But I also don't feel like they've ever been fully embraced in their community the way some of the other teams, like the Giants, are clearly a much more embraced team in that community than than the A's were in theirs.Ron Futrell: [00:49:22] I think if they start winning, they will. I think that does make a difference. And that's what happened with the Knights. Now, the Knights success in that first season was phenomenal, was unprecedented For an expansion team to go to the final in that first year was nuts and it also what it did now it yeah it it bound the community to the team, but it also spoiled a lot of people in the community and that, oh no, they thought that this just is the way it happened. And I'm sitting there, I grew up in LA, so I'm a Kings fan from way back in 1967, and it was until 2012 when the Kings won their first cup and then won again in 2014. Then they missed the playoffs for five years in a row and ask a Blackhawks fan or a Detroit Red Wings fan about how easy it is to to make the playoffs and succeed. It ain't easy in the NHL and I think the fans here absolutely are spoiled. I guess it's a good thing. The alternative is have a miserable team, but they got to put that in perspective and go, You know what? It doesn't it doesn't just happen automatically.Chuck Warren: [00:50:29] No, it doesn't happen automatically. But so I have a friend who knows the ownership of of the Knights, Golden Knights. And they were telling him before they played their first game that they said, look, we got 2 or 3 years to become part of the consciousness of Vegas or we're going to get killed when another team like the Raiders comes in. I mean, they just knew they had to start out sprinting. So Las Vegas and Nevada have been lucky with their success, but but that has to be a good ownership group, right? What have they done different? I mean, they just they seem to really be in the psyche of Las Vegas residents. Every time you go down there, I hear someone talk about the Golden Knights.Ron Futrell: [00:51:04] No, they are on the pulse of the community. And that's nice. And it started out with and you can't separate what happened. They call it the 1st October shooting, the shooting at Mandalay Bay right into the into the country concert That happened on 1st October 2017. There was a I was at an exhibition game that night on the Strip when that took place. The game had ended by then, but we were all down there and covering it. The team was down there and there were a lot of a lot of players are talking about going to the concert. It was a pretty big deal, the Route 91 festival, and decided fortunately against it, but 58 now I believe there's another one at 59 people were killed in that shooting when a mad man from the Mandalay Bay shot down on that. Concert goers still, still. We haven't gotten an explanation for that. And that's still it's still weird to me. And now it's six years later. But that event, the way the Knights handled that, the grief, they began their season. Okay. Like I said, an exhibition game was happening that night. Their regular season was was seven days later after that. And they held the memorial and they did. Derek England gave a rousing who was a local who had played here for the Wranglers in the East Coast Hockey League. So he knew Las Vegas. So he gave this speech before the game. And, you know, it just it it helped. If that tragedy helped bring the community together. In that sense, the Knights helped the community deal with that tragedy. And I think that that's something that will not be forgotten and shouldn't be. Right.Sam Stone: [00:52:46] Yeah. So, Ron, in terms of the A's coming in here now, what is that going to happen? I think it appears to be a foregone conclusion to most people. Is it seen that way in the Las Vegas area?Ron Futrell: [00:53:01] It does seem that way. It's getting pretty political. Monday, Monday night, I had a crazy Monday night, so I'm watching sitting there at home with my laptop and I'm watching five hours of the Nevada legislature debate. Senate Bill 599, which is the bill that would create a special use district on the strip, not increased taxes overall to the community, but just this one special area that if you go into it, you're going to pay a higher tax rate to be a.Sam Stone: [00:53:28] Lot of a lot of downtowns have that type of business district overlay that that has higher taxes on that area. Yeah.Ron Futrell: [00:53:35] And it's not it's not unusual. Not uncommon. So anyway, I'm watching the Knights against Dallas at 5:00 and this session started at 4:00 and went for five hours. So I'm trying to do double duty there. At the same time, sitting in the living room. It was amazing that here's a political part of it. First of all, what a lot of people don't know, John Fisher is a pretty conservative dude and lives in the Bay Area. So there you go for he's a unicorn up there, very rich. He's the owner of the A's worth $2.2 billion, give or take, depending on where the market is on any given day. And he his father started the Gap clothing store. So that's where he made his money.Sam Stone: [00:54:16] Okay. Okay.Ron Futrell: [00:54:17] So he buys the Oakland A's in 2016. And, you know, when people where I'm going with this is when people gave their they had public comment. And the public comment against Fisher was largely, well, first of all, Battle born Progress, a big leftist group in Nevada, was the first to go up there and say and oppose it and say, we don't want a billionaire. And they everybody used the word billionaire as a pejorative. And that's, to me, a little frightening. Well, yeah.Chuck Warren: [00:54:49] I mean, who else owns these teams, right? They continue. Yes.Ron Futrell: [00:54:52] A billionaire. We don't want to give a billionaire our tax dollars. Well, then. And my answer is always then, then don't go to the games. Don't go to that area where the Tropicana Hotel currently is, where the stadium is planned on being built. I look at it from the other point of view is that here's a guy that's worth 2.2 bees and wants to put 1.1 into a property on the Las Vegas strip, and it's not going to raise taxes in the general public. Joe Lombardo, who is the current governor of Nevada, Republican, has said he wouldn't do it if it raised taxes on the public well, which this is not.Sam Stone: [00:55:28] And one of the things I think I really love the idea of having this stadium right there on the Strip, because I think one of the things that Vegas struggles with the most is finding things for people to do who don't want to be spending all their time in the casinos. Right? Like it's, you know, other than you can go play golf during the day, there's some things, but you need more entertainment that's not inside a casino.Ron Futrell: [00:55:52] Oh, no. And that's it's another thing that would help unite, unite the community. One thing John Fisher said that was interesting, he's up in Carson City. He and Dave Kaval, the team president, are up there right now lobbying, lobbying some of the legislators to try to get this thing passed. There's no word on when they're going to vote on it, but the session does end June 5th. So they got until Monday at midnight to be able to make something happen or they'd have to do a special session. Back to your point there, Sam, is that he said he said that he's considering Fisher did some 4 p.m. starts in Las Vegas for games for that very reason. And also the casinos would love that because they don't like losing people at night. Right? They don't mind people going golfing during the day. Right. But they don't like pulling people out of casinos at night because that's their heavy gambling time. And you've got the MGM is the big winner in this one. Certainly if it happens because you've got seven MGM casinos within walking distance, parking distance of the stadium, that's going to take advantage of that. Allegiant Stadium is the same thing. It's right there in that same area off the strip, but close to it where you've got these those MGM properties can all take advantage of being there.Chuck Warren: [00:57:09] That's fantastic. With Ron Futrell, he is a sports journalist out of Vegas, been there for decades. Ron, by the way, does Billy Beane still own part of the A's?Ron Futrell: [00:57:22] Yes.Chuck Warren: [00:57:22] Oh, yeah. So he still does. He still.Ron Futrell: [00:57:24] Is. I interviewed him probably a season ago. Probably last season. He was here in Vegas because the triple-A affiliate. Right. For the A's is in Las Vegas. They play in Summerlin.Chuck Warren: [00:57:35] So as we wrap up here, this this portion of our show, I want to ask you this question. You've interviewed a lot of athletes from Andre Agassi and Mike Tyson to Greg Maddux, who has been your favorite and why? I mean, what's been the most interesting interview?Ron Futrell: [00:57:50] I'm going to go back to Marvin Hagler. I'm going to go way back.Sam Stone: [00:57:54] You are going way back.Ron Futrell: [00:57:56] That's he was my favorite boxer. He was left handed. So am I. So I had an affinity there. Mike Tyson covering his career from start to finish was was crazy. He once got mad at me during an interview. Called me a smart aleck.Sam Stone: [00:58:11] Which. Which at that time in particular, you did not want to get on Mike Tyson's bad side in any situation at all.Ron Futrell: [00:58:17] We're good friends. We were good friends then. I thought, we are now. We've touched base quite a few times and and I've done an interview with him. He's won a little while ago with him about his pot farms in California. Wow. And it certainly has mellowed him out quite a bit. But it was crazy. It was never it was never a dull moment when Tyson and you always had a mega fight and you always had, you know, just fantastic events. And it was fun to sort of be there when he first came to Vegas and covered his career here from start to finish, because it was legendary. But, you know, it was also covering those those four guys in the middleweight and lightweight division that Hagler-hearns Leonard Duran, the big events. I fell in love with Vegas when I got here and started covering those big events. Well, and even though.Sam Stone: [00:59:06] Yeah, for people who are younger, they they probably don't realize that in the 80s and through the early 90s, boxing and Vegas were synonymous around the world and boxing was just massive. It was around the.Chuck Warren: [00:59:19] World back in that time. People's calendars were circled for those fights. I mean, things were shut down to watch those boxes. People got the pay per view and everything. Yeah.Ron Futrell: [00:59:28] Yeah, that was before the Fertittas bought the UFC and changed it and turned it into what it is today is a monster. They then sold it for 4 billion, $4 billion and the owners of station casinos here in Vegas.Sam Stone: [00:59:43] Well, let me.Chuck Warren: [00:59:43] Let me ask you that question, though, real quick. So you have the UFC now and you have boxing. What were the ratings for those big boxing matches then versus the UFC now?Ron Futrell: [00:59:53] Oh, the boxing was much Boxing was much bigger, Yeah.Chuck Warren: [00:59:56] I mean, how many millions, how many millions.Sam Stone: [00:59:58] Is this comparison?Ron Futrell: [00:59:59] I don't know the numbers. I mean, you'd have to then you'd have to put how many people were.Sam Stone: [01:00:04] I remember like offhand, someone saying like a third of the country tuned in to one of Tyson's fights at one point.Ron Futrell: [01:00:12] Oh, it would not be surprising, even though they only lasted a minute or two. Yeah.Sam Stone: [01:00:17] In most.Ron Futrell: [01:00:17] Cases. In most cases, they were pretty short. I remember going to the gigabyte fight. It was in June.Sam Stone: [01:00:24] The Holyfield.Ron Futrell: [01:00:25] Yeah, Holyfield the second, their second fight. And that was when he bit his bit, his ear twice in that fight and the second time took a chunk out of it. And it was the only pay per view I've ever bought in my life. And I was at the fight. And the reason was my wife wanted, you know, my wife who doesn't care much about sports. She wanted to see it and she had some friends over to the house. And so she she bought the pay per view and it only lasted less than three rounds before Mills Lane stopped it because of the second ear bite anyway. And the Holyfield won. But it was it was interesting because my wife was complaining and other people were going, wait a second, it's. And there was even a lawsuit against Tyson at the time because the fight was so short. Right. I said, wait a second. This is one of the greatest sporting events of all time. I watched the tape of it. I taped it at home on an old VHS and I watched it ten times later. I said, Did we get our money's worth? You bet We got our money's worth. That's 50 bucks. Very well spent, even at $97. I haven't bought a pay per view since. And I. And I, that was the only one I've ever bought. Was that one. And it was.Sam Stone: [01:01:30] Well worth it.Chuck Warren: [01:01:32] Well, just as a comparison, I looked up the the highest UFC rating with a combined audience was 1.8 million. Okay. Floyd Mayweather in 2017 had 4.3 million pay per view purchases.Sam Stone: [01:01:48] That was.Ron Futrell: [01:01:49] Floyd against.Chuck Warren: [01:01:50] Against Connor. Against Conor.Sam Stone: [01:01:51] Mcgregor. Conor McGregor. Yeah. Yeah.Chuck Warren: [01:01:53] I mean. I mean, just think about it.Sam Stone: [01:01:55] Well, worldwide, the audience for boxing is still there, still there to at least some degree. But, but it's nowhere near what it was. I mean, it was enormous.Ron Futrell: [01:02:03] Well, I miss it. I miss boxing. I do. I say that. And okay, we got Tyson Fury back and he's sort of fun and interesting to listen to the Gypsy.Sam Stone: [01:02:14] I just found it. I find it far more interesting to watch than MMA fight.Chuck Warren: [01:02:18] Well, it's compelling and there's always a good story behind it.Ron Futrell: [01:02:21] Yeah, I'll put it this way. My kids, my sons, because they've grown up here in Las Vegas and they took him to the UFC fights early on. They love the UFC because of because they were raised here on it. And it's a local sport with gets a lot of attention here where I'm the old guy and I'm going box give me boxing any day, a good boxing match. Nothing beats it and it's they're few and far between when they when they happen but they do happen. I mean I can still remember hagler-hearns like it was.Sam Stone: [01:02:51] They happen, they.Sam Stone: [01:02:52] Happen in there. Fantastic when they do. Ron, I apologize. We're running out of time on the podcast here. We really appreciate having you on and look forward to bringing you back to talk a little more sports in the near future.Ron Futrell: [01:03:03] Anytime we got some hockey in town this weekend should be fun.Chuck Warren: [01:03:06] Thanks, Ron. Appreciate it, buddy. Have a good weekend.Sam Stone: [01:03:08] Thanks to you.Chuck Warren: [01:03:10] Well, Sam, thank you. And you had a great interview this week.Sam Stone: [01:03:13] Yeah, we had we had a great interview here in the first half of the program. And folks, we decided to continue it because in talking to congressman, done something actually came up at the after the program when we were talking off air that I wanted to put on air. So we we kept going. We did a little more for the podcast. Please stay tuned for that because it's really interesting. He's got he had some information, Chuck, about China and what they're doing in the Indo-Pacific that I was totally aware of, unaware of. And you and I are follow this kind of stuff as closely as almost anybody does. You rarely get that kind of new brand new information about something of critical strategic importance happening in the world right now. But you're going to hear it if you stay tuned right at this moment on breaking battlegrounds. And then, folks, obviously, we're back on the air next week. So please join us for that. And as always, be sure to download and share this podcast with your friends. Keep us on the air. Keep us coming into your inbox.Chuck Warren: [01:04:11] Have a great weekend.Sam Stone: [01:04:27] All right, folks, welcome back to the podcast. Only portion of breaking battlegrounds. When we went off the air earlier with Congressman Don, he mentioned that he is on a committee I didn't even realize he was on and that there are some things going on with China right now that folks, I think I'm a pretty informed person. I read a ton. I pay attention to news from around the globe. I did not realize this was happening. So we're back with Congressman Dunn for this podcast segment. Uh, Congressman, first, what what is the committee you're on? And then tell folks what you were just telling me about the Indo-Pacific.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:05:03] So the committee is the Select China Committee, and it's so it's really is a newly formed committee, specifically bipartisan of to look into China. By the way, this is also a committee where we find the Democrats and the Republicans are marching in lockstep. So this is a committee that typically has 100% consensus on what we think the problems are and where we need to go with those. And we are all working to uncover the problems and share them with each other in real time. My most recent project is indeed working on the island nations in the Indo-Pacific because those form the stepping stones, the corridor, if you will, to the to the far western Pacific of China's border Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Philippines, and of course, all of Southeast Asia. And that's their also the corridor to Australia and New Zealand. So if that.Sam Stone: [01:06:02] If that corridor is weaponized against us.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:06:06] Yeah.Sam Stone: [01:06:07] That's that is an enormous risk.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:06:09] It's largely weaponized already, although there are some corridors through there which are closing rapidly. So the Marshall Islands, the Federated Compact states, the freely associated compact states that they they gave up all of their defense to us and they freely associate with America, by the way, also serve in our military at a higher rate per capita than any other population in America. They have fully 1% of everybody on the island enlist in the military. So these are really good people. They really love America, but their governments have been corrupted by the Chinese. The money they're going in, they're buying real estate, they're buying politicians. They're buying newspapers and news outlets out there. And and they have largely replaced us in the economy of these island nations. And so this is a really dangerous thing. We all remember Douglas MacArthur's island hopping campaign that he wasn't doing that because he was touring the South Pacific. That was the only way to get to Japan. And it's also the only way to get to China. You know, we can't fight an air war from Hawaii to China. That's just way too far away.Sam Stone: [01:07:23] Yeah, If you if you can't climb that ladder, there's no getting out of fire on the roof of that house, right?Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:07:28] That's exactly right. That's exactly right. You need to have you need to have friends across the Pacific. And they are isolated. They have built China has almost completed what we like to call the greater wall of China because it's even bigger now. This stretches across the entire central and South Pacific. This is an area that's 2 or 3 times the size of the United States.Sam Stone: [01:07:52] Well, and it's not just the military issues, but then there's the trade issues, right, that that come with all of this.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:07:59] Well, that's what they care about. They love their economies. And and we have ignored them and frankly, let their economies sort of slide towards welfare states. And we need we need to be better allies, honestly, to the Pacific Island nations. They love Americans, but they're not really seeing a lot of Americans. What they're seeing is a lot of Chinese. Yeah.Sam Stone: [01:08:19] A few months back we had the member from Guam on the program with us and he was talking a little bit about it. You know, I knew nothing about their economy or tourism and the opportunities for folks to go over there, be able to enjoy visiting and, you know, working with them and their in doing business with them. But that's an enormous opportunity we're missing. It is.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:08:41] By the way. It's a beautiful place to visit. I was stationed in the Pacific Theater when I was in the Army, and my work took me throughout the Pacific Rim and I had a chance to visit a lot of these nations in my work. So we're talking about visiting them in the in as a matter of fact, medical evacuations and things like that. But but they were remarkable.Sam Stone: [01:09:05] I imagine they were eager to see you at that time.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:09:10] Didn't have much touring, but I will say nothing but good about the people out there. They're wonderful to work with and true friends of America if we just give them a chance.Sam Stone: [01:09:20] I think I think this is a really critical discussion that isn't coming up enough in public that we're not talking about all of our various allies in that region.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:09:30] This is my new my new homework project.Sam Stone: [01:09:33] Well, I'm glad you brought it to us because like I said earlier, I had no idea this was going on. And I do consider myself pretty well informed.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:09:43] Yeah, it's amazing. We are America walks around with a blind spot on the Pacific. We think it ends in a Y and starts again in Taiwan. It's it's. It's a little.Sam Stone: [01:09:53] A little.Sam Stone: [01:09:54] If there's no surfboards or semiconductors, who cares, right.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:09:58] Yeah, that's right. So all they have really is fish. Right. And but you know, but they're they're very geo geopolitically geostrategically, very, very, very important locations. And if you have to remember, each nation has its own exclusive economic zone. And if China controls that government, they control the exclusive economic zone, too, and they interlock all the way across the Pacific.Sam Stone: [01:10:24] Well, and one of the one of the issues there, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm kind of just connecting dots on my own here. But one of the issues there is that China, when they get into various territorial waters, has a tendency to heavily overfish those waters.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:10:38] Oh, yeah, absolutely. They they they have no regard whatsoever for fishing laws.Sam Stone: [01:10:43] And so so that being such a big part of the economy and the diet of all these these countries, if China gets in there and does that, the the chance that they all end up totally dependent on China goes up dramatically. Right?Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:10:56] Absolutely. And, you know, not only does it hurt them in terms of what they eat, it hurts their economy, their ability to export and frankly, ruins the environment as well. We saw what the Chinese did around the Spratly Islands. They chased out the Philippines, which really owned those islands, and then they built them into, you know, fortresses. They're all armed with anti-ship missiles, surface to air missiles. They've literally fortified parts of the Philippines. This is China against us.Sam Stone: [01:11:28] Now, I've heard very recently there's a new deal that's been put together with the Philippines that there's some pushback coming there. We're kind of strengthening our ties with them. Can you tell us what's going on with that?Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:11:39] Yeah. So they they changed governments. And the ironically, the new president is the son of Ferdinand Marcos, who we all have mixed memories about.Sam Stone: [01:11:51] But I just remember the photos of Imelda shoe collection.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:11:56] But he's pro-American. He is. And he's anti-China. He knows the Chinese are taking over his, you know, pieces of his country piece by piece. And he knows that there are malign interests. You know, the Chinese don't come anywhere and make it better. No, they may come and bring some money for the politicians, but they don't make the country better.Sam Stone: [01:12:14] Well, and realistically, with their Belt and Road program, they're creating serf nations using that program.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:12:22] It's it's old fashioned colonialism and imperialism.Sam Stone: [01:12:26] But it's just being done with dollars instead of sailing ships, essentially.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:12:30] Yeah, that's right. So you could fight a war you don't always have to be shooting to have a war. You know, you can have an economic war, too.Sam Stone: [01:12:37] Yeah. And clearly we are there. Congressman, I want to thank you so much for your time this morning. I really appreciate you sticking around for this this segment. I know it was instructive for me. And so I hope our viewers will appreciate it also.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:12:51] Well, stay tuned. I'm going to be digging into this a little more in the near future, and I hope to have a lot more to say. And I'll be working with your friend from Guam and also the representative from American Samoa.Sam Stone: [01:13:02] Fantastic. And and please stay in touch with us as you go forward on that. We would love to to bring you on regularly to be able to get updates and and learn more about it, because this is exactly why Chuck and I do this program is for moments like this when we can learn something or our listeners and viewers can learn something too. Thank you so much. Really, really appreciate today's discussion.Congressmen Neal Dunn: [01:13:25] I promise to do it. Thanks so much, Sam.Sam Stone: [01:13:28] Fantastic folks. Breaking battlegrounds will be back on the air again next week. Be sure to tune and download all of our podcasts. You can find them wherever podcasts are found or go to breaking battlegrounds. Upvote All the past episodes are up there. And again, thank you to Congressman Dunn. We very much appreciate his time today. And we. Breaking battlegrounds back next week. Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, we are joined by Utah State Treasurer, Marlo Oaks. Later in the show, we check in with former Arizona Congressional candidate Mark DeLuzio, a Gold Star father, for a look at the true meaning of Memorial Day. Finally, Jeff Taylor of the Salvation Army calls in to discuss the homelessness crisis and what can be done to solve it. -Treasurer Marlo Oaks spent 17 years overseeing multi-billion-dollar portfolios, first at Farmers Insurance Group in Los Angeles (15 years, $24 billion) and then at Intermountain Healthcare (2+ years, $7.5 billion) in Salt Lake City. He oversaw the Treasury function at Intermountain, along with all the community portfolios, including Primary Children’s Hospital Foundation. He has experience managing foundation, endowment, healthcare/hospital system, insurance, defined benefit (pension), defined contribution (401K), taxable, and tax-exempt portfolios, including manager searches, due diligence, risk management, asset allocation, investment strategy, investment policies and guidelines, and reporting to senior executives and boards of investment committees.During the 2008 – 2009 Financial Crisis, his portfolios’ performance were among the best in the country, outperforming the median corporate pension plan by 11.5% (funded status basis), representing $200 million in added portfolio value. The insurance pools were top performers among their peers, allowing the company to purchase AIG’s Direct Automobile Business, adding $4 billion to the portfolios, at the bottom of the market (March 2009). Treasurer Oaks began his career in Hong Kong on the derivatives desk at Standard Chartered Bank, a large British Bank with offices primarily in emerging markets.As a volunteer, Treasurer Oaks served on the foundation investment committee at Utah Valley University for nine years. He also co-founded two non-profit organizations, the Stella H. Oaks Foundation that provides hope to single mothers through scholarships, and FIRST Utah Robotics a series of four programs that inspire children K-12 to pursue STEM careers. He is a member of the Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) Society of Salt Lake City, the Chartered Alternative Investment Analyst (CAIA) Association of San Francisco, and holds both designations in addition to a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Brigham Young University. He completed a Masters of Business Administration at UCLA Anderson School of Business. He and his wife are the parents of six children.-Mark DeLuzio was the first in his family to earn a college degree. After college, Mark was successful in the corporate world, advising senior executives on strategy and tactics in a multitude of diverse industries. For the past 20 years, Mark has been a successful entrepreneur as the founder of a global management consulting company and has received international acclaim as a leader in his field. Mark has been married to his college sweetheart, Diane, for 41 years. They have two sons, Scott and Steven, who joined the military after the 9-11 terrorist attacks. Steve was killed in action in Afghanistan while his brother Scott was fighting just miles away. Like their two sons, Mark and his wife continue to give back to America by dedicating themselves to various military charities. Mark has also helped countless Veterans to start successful businesses. Mark and Diane have three beautiful grandchildren who are the joy of their lives.-After retiring from a very successful run on Wall Street in his late 20’s, Jeff had an escalating drug and alcohol addiction. By the age of 34 he was living on the streets of Phoenix and was arrested many times for homeless “survival” crimes that soon grew into non-violent drug motivated felonies. Finally, facing a longer-term prison sentence of 4 years, his sentencing judge diverted him to The Salvation Army Harbor Light Drug Treatment Program. Now Jeff serves as Chairman for Salvation Army of Arizona.   -Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe

This Memorial Day weekend, Chuck and Sam are honored to speak with Sergeant First Class Shane Vincent. Shane joined the Army in 2008 and was assigned to the 3rd Infantry Regiment, more commonly known as The Old Guard, where he became a Sentinel of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. He joins Breaking Battlegrounds this weekend to share his experiences in honoring the men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect our nation. -On March 4, 1921, Congress approved a resolution providing for the burial of an unidentified American soldier, following the custom adopted by other allied countries after World War I. The site was to be the plaza of Arlington National Cemetery’s Memorial Amphitheater, which had been dedicated the previous year.On Memorial Day, 1921, an unknown was exhumed from each of four cemeteries in France. The remains were placed in identical caskets and assembled at Chalon sur Marne.On October 24, Army Sergeant Edward F. Younger, wounded in combat and highly decorated for valor, selected the unknown soldier for World War 1 by placing a spray of white roses on one of the caskets. Those remaining were interred in the Meuse Argonne Cemetery, France. The Unknown Soldier then returned home to the U.S. to lie in state in the Capitol Rotunda until Armistice Day. On November 11, 1921, President Warren G. Harding officiated at the interment ceremonies at the Amphitheater.The monument which rests on top of the Unknown grave is a sarcophagus simple but impressive in its dimensions. Its austere, flat-faced form is relieved at the corners and along the sides by neo-classic pilasters, or columns, set unto the surface.Sculpted into the panel which faces Washington are the three figures of Valor, Victory, and Peace. On the plaza face the words "Here Rests in Honored Glory An American Soldier Known But To God".On August 3, 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a bill to select and pay tribute to the Unknown Soldiers of World War II and Korea on Memorial Day 1958. The World War II Unknown was selected from 19 remains exhumed from military cemeteries in Hawaii, Europe, and the Philippines.Two Unknowns from World War II, one from the European Theatre and one from the Pacific Theatre, were placed in identical caskets and taken aboard the U.S.S. Canberra, a guided missile cruiser resting off the Virginia capes. Hospital Man First Class William R. Charette, then the Navy’s only active duty Medal of Honor recipient, selected the Unknown Soldier of World War II. The remaining casket received a burial at sea.Four unknown Americans who had lost their lives in Korea were disinterred from the National Cemetery of the Pacific in Hawaii. Master sergeant Ned Lyle, U.S. Army made the final selection. Both the caskets arrived in Washington on May 28, 1958 where they lay in the Capital Rotunda until May 30.That morning they were carried on caissons to Arlington National Cemetery. President Eisenhower awarded each the Medal of Honor and the Unknowns were interred in the Plaza beside their comrade of World War 1.Twenty six years later, on Memorial Day, May 28, 1984, after a search made difficult because of advances in technologies used to identify the remains of unknown soldiers, President Ronald Reagan presided over the interment ceremony for the Vietnam Unknown service member. Like his predecessors, he was laid to rest in the plaza of the Tomb during a ceremony that received national coverage.Originally a civilian watchman was responsible for the security of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Then, March 24, 1926, a military guard from the Washington Provisional Brigade (forerunner of the U.S. Army Military District of Washington) was established during the day-light hours. In 1948 the 3d U.S. Infantry "The Old Guard" assumed the post following the units reactivation in the nation’s capital. Members of the 3d Infantry’s Honor Guard continue to serve in this distinguished duty today.A soldier seeking the honor of serving as a sentinel at the Tomb must possess exemplary qualities, to include American citizenship, a spotless record, and impeccable military bearing.While on duty the sentinel crosses a 63-foot rubber surfaced walkway in exactly 21 steps. He then faces the Tomb for 21 seconds, turns again, and pauses an additional 21 seconds before retracing his steps. The 21 is symbolic of the highest salute accorded to dignitaries in military and state ceremonies.As a gesture against intrusion on their post, the sentinel always bears his weapon away from the Tomb.Only under exceptional circumstances may the guard speak or alter his silent, measured tour of duty. He will issue a warning if anyone attempts to enter the restricted area around the Tomb, but first will halt and bring his rifle to port arms.The Guard wears the Army Dress Blue Uniform, reminiscent of the color and style worn by soldiers during the late 1800’s. Tomb Guards are privileged to wear the Tomb Identification Badge on the right breast pocket. The design is an inverted open laurel wreath surrounding a representation of the front elevation of the Tomb. The words "Honor Guard" are engraved at the base of the badge. A guard leaving after at least nine months of service is entitled to wear the badge as a permanent part of the uniform.-Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, friend of the show Congressman Drew Ferguson returns to bring us up to speed on the results of the Durham investigation. Later in the show, our friend and presidential candidate Larry Elder stops by to talk about his campaign. -Congressman Drew Ferguson is a proud native of West Point whose family roots in the West Georgia area are several generations deep. He attended the University of Georgia and gained early acceptance to the Medical College of Georgia. After graduating with a degree in dental medicine, he moved back to his hometown and established a successful family dental practice.In 2008, Congressman Ferguson was elected mayor of West Point and was at the forefront of attracting and keeping jobs in his community. By lowering taxes, eliminating government barriers and reforming education, he led a community in economic ruin back to life. Today, a wide range of new businesses and industries call West Point and the surrounding area home. Led by KIA Motors, automotive suppliers and related businesses, 16,000 new jobs have been created in the community. Congressman Ferguson came to Washington to apply the lessons he learned revitalizing West Point to creating policies that once again make America the most competitive place in the world to do business.Just as important as the creation of jobs, Congressman Ferguson wants to remove barriers to prosperity that prevent those in poverty from being able to move into the middle class. Congressman Ferguson believes these problems cannot simply be regulated away, but Congress should look for solutions that get government out of the way of American opportunity for innovation and growth. This is as much a moral issue as it is a practical matter.Congressman Ferguson currently serves on the Committee on Ways and Means and the House Budget Committee. On the House Ways and Means Committee, he serves as the Chairman of the Subcommittee on Social Security, and is a member of the Subcommittee on Select Revenue Measures – also referred to as the Subcommittee on Tax. He previously served as the Chief Deputy Whip for House Republicans from 2018 – 2022.Drew and his wife, Julie, reside in The Rock, Georgia, and together they have six children: Anderson Drew Ferguson V, Lucy, Mary Parks, Thad, Elizabeth, and Olivia.-Larry Elder—the Sage from South Central—is a nationally syndicated radio host and newspaper columnist, bestselling author, award-winning documentary filmmaker, and one of the best-known media figures in America today. His flagship daily radio program, “The Larry Elder Show,” is heard every weekday in all 50 states, on more than 300 stations.Elder’s unique style, personal background, and professional experience combine to inspire, inform, and persuade his listeners, readers, and viewers to embrace the timeless American principles of personal responsibility and public accountability. “The question is not which party has my back, but which party can get government off our backs—so that we might all realize our God-given capabilities,” says Elder.Elder was born and raised in South Central Los Angeles—and his family’s story represents every bit of the American Dream. His father was born in Athens, Georgia, served in the U.S. Marine Corps during World War II, and moved to California and opened his own restaurant—Elder’s Snack Bar. Elder’s mother, originally from Huntsville, Alabama, was a clerical worker for the U.S. Department of War (now the U.S. Department of Defense) and raised three boys as a stay-at-home mom.Elder has a B.A. in Political Science from Brown University, and a J.D. from the University of Michigan School of Law.-President Adams graduated from Layton High and went on to earn a Bachelor of Arts at the University of Utah in business finance. He currently resides in Layton, where he and his wife, Susan, raised their four children. Today they are the proud grandparents to 16 grandchildren.President Adams is a partner in the Adams Company, a Real Estate, Construction and Development Firm in Kaysville. During his time in real estate, he has been named Builder of the Year by the Northern Wasatch Home Builders Association.Before being elected to the Senate, President Adams served four and a half years in the Utah House of Representatives and nine years on the Layton City Council. He is the former Chairman of the Utah Transportation Commission and Chairs the Military Installation Development Authority (MIDA).During his time representing the 7th District, President Adams passed legislation to address religious freedoms, affordable energy, clean air and transportation.In his words, he is “honored to represent the community where he grew up and raised a family” and enjoys working in his capacity as Senate President to benefit all of the great State of Utah.-Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe

This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, we are honored to be joined by three distinguished guests. First, we sit down with Senator Ted Cruz to discuss the recent political attacks on the Supreme Court and what conservatives can do about woke corporations. Later in the show, General Sami Sadat of Afghanistan calls in for a no holds barred conversation of the United States’ withdrawal from his country. Finally, friend of the show Chris Campbell returns with an update on the negotiations over raising the debt ceiling. -Ted Cruz grew up in Texas. His father, Rafael, fled Cuba after being tortured and imprisoned and came to Texas with just $100 sewn into his underwear. Rafael got a job washing dishes making 50 cents an hour and learned English. He worked hard and attended the University of Texas at Austin, earning a degree in mathematics. He later started a small business in the oil and gas industry. Today, Rafael is a pastor in Dallas.Ted’s mother, Eleanor, was born in Delaware to an Irish and Italian working-class family. She became the first in her family to go to college, graduating from Rice University with a degree in mathematics. She broke boundaries at Shell as one of the few women working as a computer programmer at the dawn of the computer age.Ted earned his undergraduate degree from Princeton and his law degree from Harvard Law School. After law school, Ted clerked for Chief Justice Rehnquist and then worked in private practice. In 1999, Ted joined George W. Bush’s campaign for president as a domestic policy advisor. The best thing about Ted’s experience on the Bush-Cheney campaign, by far, was meeting Heidi Nelson, who also worked on the policy team. Heidi and Ted married after the campaign.After working at the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission during the Bush administration, Ted moved back home to be the Solicitor General of Texas. As Solicitor General, Ted argued eight cases before the Supreme Court of the United States, and defended our freedom of speech, our right to keep and bear arms, and our religious liberty in courts across the nation. Following his service as Solicitor General, Ted returned to private practice, where he continued to litigate high stakes cases and argued his ninth case before the Supreme Court.Ted and Heidi also started their family, welcoming Caroline and Catherine.-General Sami Sadat was born 1986 in Afghanistan. After graduation from school in Kabul, he studied military information operations in NATO school in Germany, he also holds a BBA, he then studied advance command and staff college in UK defense Academy and was graduated with highest distinction and also has finished his MA in Strategic Management and Leadership from UK Charter Management institute.His work experience is mostly visible in security sector, he worked as Deputy Director for Strategic Communications and as Policy Advisor to the Minister of Interior in Afghanistan. Mr. Sadat is a founding member of Afghanistan Analysis and Awareness (A3) a Kabul based Think-tank. A3 is a strong lobby group focusing on Afghan-US and other Afghanistan friend countries to foster better strategic relations.-Prior to Kroll, Chris was unanimously confirmed by the U.S. Senate to serve as the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Financial Institutions from 2017 to 2018. In that role, he was responsible for coordinating the Department’s efforts regarding financial institutions legislation and regulation, legislation affecting federal agencies that regulate or insure financial institutions and securities markets legislation and regulation. Specific policy and program areas of oversight included government-sponsored enterprises, critical infrastructure protection (cyber security) and compliance policy, the Federal Insurance Office (FIO), small business, community development and affordable housing policy.Chris was the Treasury board representative on the boards of the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC) and the Financial Industry's Critical Infrastructure Group. He regularly met with the heads of the 15 federal financial regulators. Additionally, he oversaw the Deputy Assistant Secretaries for Financial Institutions Policy and Small Business, Community Development and Affordable Housing, and Cyber Security, in addition to a staff of 200.Prior to his role at the Treasury department, Chris was the majority staff director to the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance. He designed, managed and coordinated the U.S. Senate Republican agenda in the areas of international and domestic taxation, international trade, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the U.S. National Debt, and oversight of three presidential cabinet secretaries. He was named by Roll Call Newspaper as one of the 50 most influential staffers on Capitol Hill, seven years running. Previously, he served as legislative director to Senator Orrin G. Hatch, where he coordinated and managed the senator’s legislative activities.Immediately prior to rejoining Senator Hatch’s staff, Chris owned a business consulting firm that specialized in business strategy for clients from all-sized companies across the country, and from a variety of industries.Chris is a director of Intrado, Coinstar, WeConnect Health Management, tZERO, and a board advisor at Cross River Bank. Additionally, he is a Professor of Practice at his alma matter, Thunderbird School of Global Management. He also serves as a strategic advisor and consultant to several large national and international organizations. He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.He holds an MBA from Thunderbird School of Global Business Management and a bachelor’s degree in political science from the University of California, Santa Barbara.-Connect with us:www.breakingbattlegrounds.voteTwitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_BattleFacebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegroundsInstagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegroundsLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds Get full access to Breaking Battlegrounds at breakingbattlegrounds.substack.com/subscribe