Outthinkers

Eddie Fishman is a senior research scholar at Columbia University’s Center on Global Energy Policy, adjunct professor of International & Public Affairs, and author of Choke Points: How the Global Economy Became a Weapon of War. A former U.S. State Department strategist, he served on the Secretary of State’s Policy Planning Staff and Foreign Affairs Policy Board, and led Russia/Europe sanctions policy—bringing a rare, in-the-room perspective to how economic power really works.In this conversation, we trace how “choke points”—where one nation dominates and substitutes are scarce—have turned minerals, microchips, and money flows into the quiet weapons of great-power rivalry. Eddie unpacks the geo-economic “impossible trinity”—why you can’t maximize interdependence, economic security, and geopolitical calm all at once—and what that trade-off means for leaders making bets on AI, batteries, and supply chains.Whether you’re steering strategy, procurement, or policy, this episode will change how you spot fragile dependencies, anticipate where pressure will build next, and engage policymakers before the rules harden around you.In this episode we cover:Why a true “choke point” = dominance plus low substitutability The geo-economic impossible trinity and its implications for business strategyWhere the next choke points may emerge: AI compute, batteries/EVs, and the energy transitionThe firm’s role: don’t just adapt to policy—shape it (how to engage upstream, practically)Industrial policy realities: U.S. moves on rare earths and semis—benefits, risks, and tolerance for failureEpisode Timeline:00:00 – Cold open: rare earths and leverage02:00 – Guest introduction and Eddie’s background05:45 - Strategy as “winning tomorrow,” not just today07:02 - Defining choke points (dominance + substitution)11:20 - The “impossible trinity” explained with historical arcs27:05 - Should firms adapt or shape policy?30:05 - Emerging choke points: AI chips, batteries, EVs38:05 - U.S. industrial policy (MP Materials, Intel) and what comes nextAdditional Resources:Book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/726149/chokepoints-by-edward-fishman/X (Twitter): https://x.com/edwardfishman?lang=enLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edward-fishmanThank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

In this engaging discussion, Scott Anthony, a Senior Lecturer at Dartmouth’s Tuck School of Business and expert on disruptive innovation, delves into how disruption has shaped human history. He draws parallels between historical events like the invention of gunpowder and modern innovations, emphasizing lessons for today's leaders. Scott reveals how understanding patterns of disruption can empower organizations rather than instill fear. He outlines the roles essential for fostering innovation and shares insights that encourage proactive decision-making in a rapidly changing world.

Adam Brotman, former Chief Digital Officer of Starbucks and co-CEO of J.Crew, dives into the mindset needed for AI-first leadership. He shares insights from his conversations with tech visionary Bill Gates, emphasizing AI as a tool for enhancing decision quality rather than just productivity. Brotman discusses the challenging 'middle era' of AI and how leaders must adapt their strategies. He stresses that authentic inspiration, not technical know-how, is vital for CEOs to drive meaningful AI transformation across their organizations.

Our guest today is Julia Austin—former senior leader at Akamai, VMware, and DigitalOcean, with decades of experience helping organizations make the leap from startup to scale. She’s also studied and guided countless founders as a professor at Harvard Business School. Julia now distills those lessons in her new book, After the Idea: What It Really Takes to Create and Scale a Startup.In this conversation you’ll discover what separates ventures that thrive from those that stall. Every company begins with a spark, but too often innovators fall in love with ideas, overbuild too soon, or underestimate the hard realities of scaling and culture. Julia draws from experience spanning tech giants and countless startups to reveal how leaders can move from inspiration to momentum—and sustain innovation even as complexity grows.You’ll learn practical frameworks and stories for transforming early insights into long-term impact. Whether you’re a founder, strategist, or innovator inside an established business, this conversation offers tools for approaching discovery, scaling, and culture design.In this episode we cover:Four types of scrappy experiments every innovator should run: ethnographic, “be the bot,” Wizard of Oz, and low fidelity prototypesHow to know if there’s really a there there in your marketBalancing beachheads and total addressable markets while keeping unit economics in checkBuilding competitive advantages through team, domain expertise, and partnershipsHow to design org structures and cultures that reward experimentation and embrace productive failureEpisode Timeline:00:00 — Highlight from today’s episode 01:18 — Introducing Julia Austin and today’s topic 04:45 — “If you really know me…” Julia’s art background 06:30 — Julia’s definition of strategy as a “living, breathing map” 09:15 — Lessons from Akamai and VMware on scaling from startup to global enterprise 14:50 — The importance of discovery: why slowing down helps you go faster 21:05 — Four types of experiments: ethnographic, be the bot, Wizard of Oz, low fidelity 33:40 — Testing markets: TAM, beachheads, and unit economics 42:20 — Building competitive advantage beyond the idea 49:15 — Designing cultures that keep innovation alive at scale 55:45 — Why celebrating failure fuels long-term breakthroughs 01:02:10 — Julia’s book After the Idea and how to connect with herAdditional Resources:Book Website: https://www.aftertheideabook.com/ Julia Austin's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliaaustinThank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Martin Reeves is Chairman of the BCG Henderson Institute and author of The Imagination Machine and his newest book, Like: The Button That Changed the World. A prolific strategist and researcher, Martin is known for uncovering practical lessons from unexpected places and helping leaders rethink innovation for the real world.In this conversation, we trace the surprising story of the “like” button—how a few lines of JavaScript, cultural quirks, and serendipitous accidents reshaped business models, advertising, and even human behavior. Martin reveals why most groundbreaking ideas don’t emerge from lone geniuses, but from messy communities, chance encounters, and recombinations of old ideas into something new.Whether you’re leading innovation at scale or just curious about the unintended consequences of technology, this episode will change how you think about creativity, feedback, and the ripple effects of small decisions.In this episode we cover:Why the “like” button is the ultimate case study in serendipitous innovationHow social signals scale beyond social media into CX, commerce, and B2B servicesThe role of culture, language, and naming in shaping adoption and meaningWhy second-order effects of innovation often matter more than first-order onesA practical lens for spotting and leveraging serendipity inside organizationsEpisode Timeline: 00:00 – Introduction 02:00 – Guest Introduction 03:45 – Toaster Projects and Innovation06:13 - Origins of the Like Button08:25 - Cultural History of the Thumbs Up Gesture14:31 - Multiple Inventors and Facebook's Role34:27 - Inside the Code: How Likes Work36:11 - Future Implications of Like TechnologyAdditional Resources:Book Website: LikeBook.orgMartin’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-reevesBook: Like: The Button That Changed the WorldThank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Kurt Miscinski is the co-founder, CEO, and President of Cerity Partners, one of the fastest-growing firms in the wealth management space. Today, Cerity manages over $130 billion in client assets—but it started with a different vision: to create the first truly global, enduring professional services firm in wealth, drawing inspiration from firms like McKinsey and Deloitte, but applying it in a field that historically hasn’t operated that way.  In this conversation, Kurt shares how that vision came to life—not through consolidation, but through a partnership ethos and a language shift that reframed everything from equity to culture. This is a story of architecture: how to build a firm that scales without losing its soul, and how to align incentives, ownership, and strategy to fuel long-term value. In this episode, we discuss: How Kurt went from being a CPA and Deutsche Bank executive to founder of a firm redefining wealth advisory Why Cerity’s operating model borrows more from McKinsey than Morgan Stanley—and how that unlocks scale The strategic philosophy behind reinvesting 100% of profits and how it shaped the firm’s culture of ownership How they use mergers to create a better firm, not just a bigger one—and why that distinction matters The role of language in shaping culture, from avoiding the word “employee” to framing every merger as a partnership Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:55—Introducing Kurt + the topic of today’s episode02:42—If you really know me, you know that...05:30—What's your definition of strategy?06:19—Creating Cerity—the founding story08:57—Deutsche Bank and McKinsey as inspirations for a services-based business model16:33—How has Cerity created a culture of partnership within the firm?26:34—What is Cerity's model for capital allocation?30:21—Where does the strategy office sit within the organization?33:33—What are some of the principles that form your competitive differentiators?37:03—How do you balance and maintain the coordination of the various services offered, as your clients evolve and grow?41:03—What is your process for reevaluating and expanding your client services?45:08—Closing______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtmiscinskiCerity website: https://ceritypartners.com/Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

This special episode of Outthinkers was recorded in front of a live audience in NYC and made possible by our friends at LHH, a global leader in HR advisory and talent solutions, trusted by executives around the world to navigate change and lead with confidence. With deep expertise in executive search, leadership development, workforce transformation, and career transition, LHH empowers organizations and their leaders to thrive in an ever-evolving business landscape. Our guest is none other than Oscar Munoz—former CEO and Chairman of United Airlines, who guided the airline through one of the most significant turnarounds in corporate history. He’s also the author of the acclaimed memoir Turnaround Time, which offers a behind-the-scenes look at the human side of executive leadership. In this candid conversation, Oscar shares deeply personal lessons on leading through crisis, building trust from the ground up, and the enduring power of authenticity. Whether you're leading your organization through change or navigating a career transition, this conversation offers wisdom and inspiration for every step of the journey. Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Ryan Hamilton is an associate professor of marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things. He is also co-host of the podcast The Intuitive Customer, and author of a book by the same name. He has consulted on branding with companies like Walmart, FedEx, Home Depot, Caterpillar, ConAgra, Cigna, Visa, and Ipsos, among others.  To start a successful brand, you usually need to focus in on a specific, often niche, customer. But to grow the brand, you need to expand your customer base. A few brands have done this well (e.g., Starbucks or Apple) which have this loyal passionate base of fans that stick with them as the brands become ubiquitous. But, more often, brands fail to scale because the new customer they need in order to scale are too different from those core customers. They have different values or needs or beliefs. In this episode, we dive into this dilemma, discussing how to predict, preempt, and manage the conflicts that will arise between a brand’s initial customers and the more varied customer segments it must attract in order to scale.  In this episode we cover: This concept of “CSRM”—customer segment relationship management”  Examples of companies who have managed the growth dilemma well and those that have not—and what insights we can draw A practical framework outlining the four types of customer relationship scenarios you may be facing, and what strategies to deploy for each one How brands must be intentional about the type of value they offerEpisode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:14—Introducing Ryan + the topic of today’s episode03:44—If you really know me, you know that...05:12—What's your definition of strategy?05:52—The basis for Ryan's second book, The Growth Dilemma08:34—Breaking down an "identity of culture," within a brand11:07—Have brands moved from functional to identity-based culture?15:30—The concept of CSRM: Customer Segment Relationships Management (and the 2 x 2 matrix)25:25—Breaking down the different types of customer segment conflicts38:07—How do you know when you need to "fire" a customer segment?41:19—How do the principles talked about in this episode apply to the employee segments?43:30—How does the age of hyper-customization affect customer relationship management?46:02—How can people continue learning from you?______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321/Book website: https://www.growthdilemmabook.com/Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Gina O’Connor, a professor at Babson College, specializes in Corporate Entrepreneurship and Breakthrough Innovation. She shares insights from her extensive research on the constraints of innovation, emphasizing that human factors often pose greater challenges than resources. O’Connor identifies three competencies crucial for innovation: discovery, incubation, and scaling. She advocates for viewing failures as learning opportunities and highlights the necessity of tailored management systems and strong internal networks to foster sustainable growth in established companies.

Robert E. Siegel is a lecturer in Management at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, where he has taught various courses ranging from Systems Leadership to Financial Management for Entrepreneurs to The Industrialist’s Dilemma to Corporations, Finance and Governance in the Global Economy. He is also a Venture Partner at Piva Capital and a General Partner at XSeed Capital, and sits on multiple Boards of Directors and has led investments in Zooz, Cirrosecure, and Lex Machina, among others. His multi-lens background and approach have afforded Robert a deep, intricate understanding into leadership in our constantly in flux world today, and how it requires an ever-more nuanced approach.  In this discussion, we dive into key insights from his most recent 2025 book, The Systems Leader: Mastering the Cross Pressures that Make or Break Today’s Companies, a perfect complement to his first book, The Brains and Brawn Company. We discuss the constant web of dualities that the modern systems leader confronts on an ongoing basis, as well as: How while our business frameworks have long been trending towards change-driven  frameworks with terms like “ambidextrous organization” and “exploitation vs. exploration,” world parameters have grown increasingly complex, requiring a different set of leadership skills The key characteristics of a systems leader, including the 5 cross-pressures that these leaders must learn to balance to be effective.  The four abilities that leaders must develop, including developing a product manager mindset—the ability to live at the intersection of customer needs, market demands, and the inner workings of your company  Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:30—Introducing Robert + the topic of today’s episode05:32—If you really know me, you know that...07:48—What is your definition of strategy?08:44—An overview of Robert's first book, The Brains and Brawn Company15:30—What are some key questions in your toolkit to become better at self-diagnostics17:50—Can you explain your quote: "leadership is ability to restrain in response to a certain stimulus"?21:30—Can you define a systems leader for us?23:42—What can we learn from the product manager's mindset?25:35—Can you give us an overview of the 5 cross-pressures leaders face?29:28—How is the landscape of investors changing under these pressures?32:25—The effect of AI on the workforce, and the role of leaders37:45—What is your advice to someone looking to shape strategy in light of these cross-pressures?40:39—How can people continue learning from you?______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertesiegel/Link to website: https://www.robertesiegel.com/the-systems-leaderThank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast