

MOPs & MOEs
MOPs & MOEs
Changing the fitness culture of the force. Your one stop shop for all things fitness for tactical professionals.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jun 25, 2023 • 1h 15min
The 5ft Firefighter with Katrina Mohr
This episode is a slight detour from our normally military-focused content into the world of wildland firefighting. Katrina Mohr was recently featured on Outside Online where she talked about her path into firefighting as well as the challenges of being a small woman in an extremely physically demanding job. There were some great insights there, so we invited her to join us for a conversation as well.
When we first reached out to Katrina she was hesitant to come on the podcast because she didn't feel qualified, but we think as you listen you'll find a lot of practical insights here that apply to anyone pursuing physical challenges, or big goals of any kind.
Her blog, The 5ft Firefighter, contains a wealth of resources for anyone looking to learn more about wildland firefighting, especially if they want to find out how to get into this kind of work. If the conversation we have here piques your interest, definitely go check it out to learn more!
Since recording this episode she's been advocating for the Tim Hart Wildland Firefighter Classification and Pay Parity Act. This bill would go a long way to helping these critical firefighters make a living wage. They currently make as little as $13.45 an hour, and that does NOT include times when they're on standby or even times when they're on assignment but not actively at the fire site.
You can find the fact sheet here and more information and testimonials here.
You can also find Katrina on Instagram here.

Jun 18, 2023 • 56min
Challenges in Military Nutrition Research with LTC (R) Steve DeLellis
Lieutenant Colonel (Retired) DeLellis leads research focused on traumatic brain injury, including managing the longest continually running TBI surveillance project in the Special Operations community and co-authoring more than 30 articles on TBI in SOF. But in this episode we aren't here to discuss the research he's had success in, we're here to discuss the research he hasn't been able to get off the ground. On numerous occasions he has tried and failed to initiate research projects on nutrition for soldiers, and we brought him on to talk about why that might be.
LTC (R) Delellis had a truly incredible career in the Army, with combat service in essentially every conflict the United States has participated in in the last four decades. He was on the ground in Operation Just Cause (Panama,) Operation Gothic Serpent (Mogadishu, Somalia), Operation Uphold Democracy (Haiti), Operation Deliberate Force (The Balkans), and eleven rotations in Operations Iraqi and Enduring Freedom.
He entered active duty as a Private in 1983 and went on to serve as an Infantryman, Team Leader, Squad Leader, and Battalion Assistant Operations Sergeant for the 1st Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment at Hunter Army Airfield. From 1988 to 1998 LTC DeLellis served as a Team Member and Team Leader in the Army’s Special Missions Unit at Fort Bragg, NC.
Upon graduating from Physician Assistant School, LTC DeLellis served as the Battalion PA for 3rd Battalion, 325th Infantry, 82nd Airborne division, and the Battalion PA for 3rd Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group. From 2004 to 2014 he served as a Squadron PA, Family Medicine Clinic Supervisor, and Deputy Surgeon for the Army’s Special Missions Unit. LTC DeLellis served briefly as the Deputy Surgeon for the XVIII Airborne Corps before moving back to USASOC as the Chief of Medical Training and the Deputy Command Surgeon.
Today, DeLellis is the Executive Director of the Fort Bragg Research Institute, a program of The Geneva Foundation, where he continues his important work supporting the operational needs of the warfighter.
Learn more about the Fort Bragg Research Institute here
Learn more about the North Carolina Center for Optimizing Military Performance (NC-COMP) here
We discussed some DoD obesity data which can be found here
We also discussed comparisons in obesity rates between branches which can be found here

Jun 11, 2023 • 1h 1min
Building a Culture of Performance with COL Michael Kloepper
COL Michael Kloepper has spent effectively his entirely career as a paratrooper, and now as Commander of the 173rd Airborne Brigade he has implemented some really interesting policies around health, fitness, and wellness.
There's a good chance you've heard about his "Policy Letter #2 - Cohesion and the Pursuit of Excellence," commonly referred to as the incentives memo. This policy allows soldiers to earn time off for everything from graduating Ranger School to traveling around Europe to taking a picture at the Trail #173 sign in the Dolomites.
In this episode we talk about that memo (which was originally inspired by a Specialist in the brigade), as well as the 173rd's Tough in Spirit initiative, his efforts to improve the DFAC, and even - prepare yourselves - limiting alcohol sales on post.
And of course we talk about his approach to physical fitness.
COL Kloepper is a 1997 graduate of West Point, a 2015 graduate of UNC's Keenan-Flagler Business School, and a 2021 Distinguished Graduate of the Army War College. He is an Infantryman, Ranger, and Paratrooper whose assignments include Ranger Regiment, 173rd Airborne Brigade, and USASOC.
You can read the incentives memo here.
He also discussed many of these topics at the H2F Symposium, and you can view that presentation here.

Jun 4, 2023 • 1h 9min
Rethinking Powerlifting with Taylor Starch
This episode is a crossover between the Instagram version of MOPs & MOEs (punchy, oversimplified, sometimes deliberately instigating, etc.) and the podcast version of MOPs & MOEs (more thought out, addressing nuance, etc.).
I (Alex) recently connected with Taylor Starch over a discussion about spinal flexion in strength training. Seeing some of Taylor's subsequent content got me thinking about the outsized influence of powerlifting on strength and conditioning in general, and especially the tactical space. While powerlifting is not alone in this, it does seem to face the least scrutiny - squat, bench, and deadlift are broadly accepted as the core of strength and conditioning.
If you missed my post articulating this, this episode is essentially a discussion about how that conversation rapidly devolved. Since Taylor sent me down this rabbit hole in the first place, we thought we'd include him in the discussion, and he added some really interesting perspective.
Taylor Starch has his bachelors in health and exercise science and health promotion from Colorado State, where he was on the cycling team and competed at the national level. Since then he has accumulated roughly fifteen years of experience from personal training to running his own company and now to tactical. His last six years spent in tactical have included time with Air Force Special Warfare and currently with the 56th Fighter Wing. Along the way he has acquired an astonishingly extensive list of professional certifications, and if you follow him you'll quickly learn that he's a big trail runner.
You can find Taylor on Instagram
Drew mentioned an Elon Musk video discussing first principles
Alex mentioned a study showing mixed results from the Tactical Athlete Performance Center

May 28, 2023 • 2h 16min
History of Army Physical Fitness with Dr. Whitfield "Chip" East
This is a special episode, in more ways than just being twice as long as the rest. Dr Whitfield "Chip" East literally wrote the book on the history of Army physical fitness, and the incredible depth of knowledge he has on historical physical culture is absolutely astonishing. His insight reveals that many of the problems we're reckoning with today are echoes of extremely similar problems from decades ago.
Dr. East played an integral role in the development and implementation of the ACFT, and you'll see over the course of this episode how it fits into the broader context of Army fitness history. As we chronologically work our way through a couple hundred years of history we pause at key junctures to discuss the implication of these events for our current fitness culture.
I (Alex) have been lucky enough to be both taught by and work alongside Dr. East, and every visit to his office led to a fascinating conversation. This episode is no exception, and you'll definitely learn something interesting. From the origins of Turnverein gymnastics training to the role of political and social trends in military fitness to tracing the history of fitness testing, we cover centuries of relevant history in this conversation.
Most of the episode centers around summarizing key pieces of Dr. East's book A Historical Review and Analysis of Army Physical Readiness Training and Assessment (available as a free pdf here)
Dr. East also makes several references to West Point's Indoor Obstacle Course Test (IOCT). For those who are unfamiliar, these videos provide some context:
IOCT Men's Record: Matthew Bassette
IOCT Women's Record: Elizabeth Bradley

May 21, 2023 • 1h 18min
Wounding Warriors with LTC (R) Dan Gade
We've touched on conversations about veteran disability before, but on this episode we're going all in. To get this conversation right we needed a guest who really understands the VA disability system, and it's hard to imagine someone more qualified to discuss this issue than Dan Gade. Dan is an Army veteran who became an amputee in 2005 while serving as a company commander in Ramadi, Iraq. Since this is an audio only format and we don't discuss it directly in the episode, it's important to note that Dan is missing almost the entirety of his right leg. He continued serving despite his injury and retired as a Lieutenant Colonel in 2017. He went on to work as a disability and veteran services activist, professor, and researcher. He currently serves as the Commissioner of the Virginia Department of Veterans Services.
Most importantly for this conversation, Dan is the author of Wounding Warriors: How Bad Policy is Making Veterans Sicker and Poorer. This well researched book unflinchingly goes after the "third rail" political topic of veterans disability reform. Described as a "must read" by GEN (R) Jim Mattis (former Secretary of Defense) and Jim Nicholson (former Secretary of Veterans Affairs) the book takes on controversial issues that others tend to avoid.
Dan has his bachelors in environmental science from West Point and his Masters in public administration and his PhD in public policy from the University of Georgia. He served in the administration of President George W. Bush, taught at both West Point and American University, and was appointed to the National Council on Disability. He also knows a thing or two about fitness, he became the paralympic world champion at the 2010 Ironman 70.3.
Additional Resources:
Of course we recommend reading Dan's book Wounding Warriors: How Bad Policy is Making Veterans Sicker and Poorer. You can even order a signed copy from Dan from woundingwarriors.com.
You can find Dan's article "A Better Way to Help Veterans" in National Affairs here.
Read his article "Why the VA is Buried in Disability Claims" in the Wall Street Journal here.
He has also published formal research:
"Combat exposure and mental health: the long-term effects among US Vietnam and Gulf war veterans" in Health Economics can be found here.
"Where Did You Serve? Veteran Identity, Representative Bureaucracy, and Vocational Rehabilitation" in the Journal of Public Administration Research and Theory can be found here.
In our discussion he also recommended listening to his appearance on the Cleared Hot podcast with Andy Stumpf.

May 14, 2023 • 1h 12min
Asking Better Questions with Alec Blenis
This week we have Alec Blenis back for round two. If you didn't catch his first episode back in August, it's one of our most popular and definitely worth going back for. Alec has a really unique background ranging from Georgia Tech physics grad to former professional Spartan Racer and competitive ultramarathoner to Murph world record holder. Lately he's becoming a bigger and bigger voice in the fitness social media world with his emphasis on hybrid training, antifragile approach to movement, and willingness to take on big problems in the space.
In this conversation we cover a lot of ground. We start with how to ask better questions (Alec is a master of the Instagram Q&A) and then we dive into interference effect, how people misinterpret the concept of progressive overload, and more.
You can find Alec on Instragram @alecblenis where he has tons of great content, and he also offers paid programming and coaching.
He's also currently running a side bend challenge if you have what it takes to compete!

5 snips
May 7, 2023 • 1h 38min
How to Train for the ACFT
This is a "give the people what they want" kind of episode. If you've been following us for any amount of time, you'll know we're not fans of training for the test. But so many people have foundational misunderstandings about what types of training will serve them well on the test that we thought this conversation might be helpful.
We start with a little history of how we got to the ACFT we know today, then we lay out a few policy and doctrinal references for how training is "supposed" to be done. These might come in handy if, as we encourage, you're teaching classes to soldiers on how to train more effectively. They will hopefully also clear up a bit of confusion, since people get them wrong so often.
But of course the bulk of this episode is a breakdown of the specific test events, what components of fitness they are designed to assess, and what types of training will improve those components of fitness. We routinely get questions about these topics, so now all the answers are in one place.
If you find this episode useful, please share it with other soldiers! There are several topics in this episode that we brushed past very briefly. If you want to dive deeper on any of these, here are the episodes and resources we referred to:
How to Build Your PT Plan episode
Programming for Strength episode
ACFT development episode with Dr. DeGroot
Zone 2 training episode with Scott Johnston
Stronger by Science article about the Hinge-Squat Continuum
A throwback early MOPs & MOEs post about the "hardstyle plank"

8 snips
Apr 30, 2023 • 1h 24min
The Full Bird's Eye View: A Commander's Perspective on H2F with Colonel Jon Harvey
As a current Brigade Commander Colonel Jon Harvey oversees an embedded team of human performance professionals as part of the Army's Holistic Health and Fitness (H2F) program. Because human performance in a military setting is so dependent on leader buy in, we wanted Colonel Harvey's perspective on how he utilizes this team, and why he is personally so passionate about the program. It is obvious in this conversation that he is all in, and they're already seeing some impressive results.
Colonel Jon Harvey is a US Army Field Artillery Officer and commander of the 18th Field Artillery Brigade at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. He has commanded soldiers at every level from small units up to brigade, and he has extensive staff experience to include the Joint Staff, the Army Staff, and U.S. Forces Afghanistan. His postings have taken him all over the world from Korea, to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, to Fort Drum, New York, to Washington, D.C and now to the center of the universe at Fort Bragg. Operationally, he has served in Kosovo, Afghanistan, Haiti, and Iraq. He has a bachelors in political science from Eastern New Mexico University, a Masters from the Army Command and General Staff College, and a Counterterrorism and Public Policy fellowship from Duke University where he focused on military senior leader decision making and the Army’s professional military education of staff officers.
You can find Colonel Harvey on his (very active) Instagram page.
The 18th FAB H2F team (STORM) also has their own Instagram page.

Apr 23, 2023 • 1h 8min
Dr. Ben Singh: Treating Mental Health with Physical Activity
You may have seen headlines the last few weeks saying things like "Exercise is More Effective than Medication for Mental Health" and "It’s Not Just Exercise that Improves your Mental Health – Intensity and Type Matters Too." The research that is driving all these headlines comes from Dr. Ben Singh's team at the University of South Australia, and he's our guest on this week's episode.
The study that has caught everyone's attention has been described as “the most comprehensive synthesis to date of evidence regarding the effects of all modes of physical activity on symptoms of depression, anxiety and psychological distress in adult populations.” Their team pulled together systematic reviews spanning numerous exercise modalities, mental health disorders, and patient populations to synthesize a comprehensive overview of the current literature.
The article has done the research equivalent of "breaking the internet." As of this episode posting, it has an Altmeric Attention Score of 2957 (and rising), it has been picked up by 195 news outlets, and it has already been cited in three academic articles despite only being published a couple months ago. For context, any score over 20 is considered quite good, and Dr. Singh's previous high was 60. This article is already in the top 1% of all research ever tracked by Altmetric.
In the episode we discuss how different types of physical activity may be more or less beneficial for different conditions, the importance of including exercise professionals in the treatment of mental health disorders, and the many obstacles to normalize exercise as a treatment modality. For an example of the insights Dr. Singh's team found, resistance training appears to be most effective for depression, whereas pilates and yoga were more effective for anxiety. Both outperformed aerobic exercise despite previous guidelines that prioritized it. But tune in to the conversation before you draw your conclusions, because Dr. Singh discusses limitations of the existing research, and how much work there is left to do.
You can find the original article HERE.
You can find Dr. Singh on Twitter.