Law, disrupted

David Elsberg, Founding Partner of Ellsberg, Baker & Moruri and former Quinn Emanuel partner, shares insights on launching a law firm. He was inspired by the satisfaction other partners found in building their practices. David delves into the challenges of managing the business side of law, the importance of assembling a cohesive team, and the appeal of boutique firms for young lawyers seeking trial experience. He also emphasizes the need for careful communication when transitioning from established firms to preserve client relationships.

In the final episode in this series recorded before a live audience in China, John is joined by Richard Ma, Founder of the Dahui law firm; Xiao Liu, Quinn Emanuel’s Chair of China Practice and Chief Representative of the Beijing Office; and Yixuan Zhu, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s Beijing office.  They discuss building their respective firms, establishing their firms’ cultures, global expansion strategies, and challenges in cross-border legal practice.  Dahui was established to better serve clients, particularly in fast-evolving new economy industries like technology, media, telecommunications, and healthcare.  Dahui adopted a boutique approach—being the best at what it did and providing full-service legal support to its clients.  Expanding carefully, the firm analyzes whether expanding into a new city will assist its clients and whether it can attract top tier local talent.  The Chinese legal market is also trending towards firms expanding into “second-tier” Chinese cities such as Wuhan, Nanjing, and Chongqing where an increasing number of disputes arise.  Quinn Emanuel’s global expansion has been largely talent-driven and opportunistic, seeking exceptional lawyers to open offices rather than following a predetermined plan.  In addition, the globalization of business has led to a globalization of disputes with proceedings in multiple jurisdictions and key witnesses living around the world.  Firms with talented lawyers throughout the world are simply better suited to effectively represent clients in such cases.  Both firms work to maintain firm cultures that emphasizes competitiveness and client service.  Quinn Emanuel has a tradition of sending firm wide "victory emails" to celebrate case wins and instill a results-driven mindset.  Dahui values commitment to precision and professionalism, ensuring high standards in legal work.  On the evolving Chinese legal market, Dahui bridges the gap between international clients and China’s regulatory landscape, correcting misconceptions and ensuring successful investments and dispute resolutions.  As Chinese companies continue to expand globally, demand for international dispute resolution will likely rise.  Legal complexities stemming from U.S.-China tensions will also likely provide opportunities for experienced litigators to navigate shifting regulatory and geopolitical landscapes.Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fmHost: John B. Quinn Producer: Alexis HydeMusic and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

Victor Shen, Chief Legal Officer of Henkel China, Liu Zhen, Vice President at Xiaomi, and Li Hua, Senior Counsel at a Fortune 500 energy company, dive into the complex world of legal compliance and intellectual property in China. They discuss the challenges posed by non-practicing entities and the changing landscape of IP litigation. The importance of agile legal strategies and strong internal compliance frameworks is emphasized, alongside insights on navigating antitrust issues and maintaining robust relationships with regulators amidst a dynamic global market.

Gao Xiqing, a pioneer in China's financial landscape and former Chief Investment Officer at the China Investment Corporation, shares his fascinating journey from building railroads during the Cultural Revolution to conquering Wall Street as a top legal mind. He discusses his role in creating China's first stock exchange and reflects on the evolution of its regulatory frameworks. Prof. Gao also offers insight into Sino-American relations, highlighting common values that could foster closer ties between the two nations.

John is joined by renowned criminal defense lawyer attorney Ben Brafman, Founder of Brafman & Associates. They discuss Ben’s 45-year career, trial strategies, and reflections on the criminal justice system. Ben, who has tried more than 75 cases, gained prominence in the 1980s and 90s when he defended major criminal trials, particularly organized crime and white-collar cases. He was in trial almost continuously for 11 years. He attributes his success to meticulous preparation and emphasizes that there are no shortcuts in trial practice. Ben describes the evolution of criminal trials over the last 40 years, noting that trials are shorter and less frequent today due to an increase in plea deals. John and Ben also discuss trial strategies. Many cases are won on cross. A successful cross requires deep knowledge of every piece of evidence in the case. He describes one case in which he essentially memorized months of taped conversations to dismantle a key witness’s credibility.  Ben often uses cross-examinations of prosecution witnesses to establish parts of the defense and contradict the testimony of other witnesses. Most cases today are won or lost on emails or texts because they are so prevalent and an incriminating email or text by a defendant cannot be discredited on cross-examination. Ben also reflects on some of his most notable cases, including the acquittal of Sean "Diddy" Combs on gun and bribery charges in 2001 and the acquittal of nightclub mogul Peter Gation after an eight-week racketeering trial. Criminal defense often takes an emotional toll on the criminal defense lawyer, who is witness to the devastating impact criminal prosecutions have on families and personal reputations. Finally, John and Ben discuss criminal justice reform. Ben criticizes mandatory sentencing minimums laws and advocates for judicial discretion to prevent unjustly harsh sentences. Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fmHost: John B. Quinn Producer: Alexis HydeMusic and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Michael Ng, partner at Kobre & Kim.  They discuss the $604 million verdict Michael recently won in a trade secrets case in Alameda County Superior Court in California.  The punitive damages phase of the trial is expected to take place in the Spring. The case centered on allegations that Phillips 66 misappropriated Propel Fuels’ trade secrets while conducting due diligence for a potential acquisition that ultimately did not proceed.  Michael explains that Propel Fuels, a pioneer in renewable fuels, accused Phillips 66 of using proprietary data, including financial models, market research, and operational strategies, to replicate Propel’s business.  Despite Phillips 66's claims that it had no need for Propel’s information, Michael and his team demonstrated that the trade secrets were not only accessed but directly used to launch Phillips 66’s renewable fuels business.  The evidence Michael’s team presented included internal Phillips 66 documents and testimony that showed the rapid deployment of Phillips 66’s business mirroring Propel’s proprietary model.  Michael reviews the strategic decisions he made that led to the verdict, including choosing to proceed in state court rather than federal court, providing a detailed pretrial trade secrets disclosure, selecting jurors with technical expertise, and proactively calling a key defense witness during Propel’s case-in-chief.  He also describes how the trial team effectively explained the complex market and regulatory dynamics of renewable fuels through their clients’ testimony and expert witnesses.  John and Michael also discuss Propel’s damages case, which was based on an unjust enrichment theory that emphasized the head start Phillips 66 gained by leveraging Propel’s trade secrets.  Michael describes internal Phillips 66 communications stating that Propel’s information gave Phillips 66 a ten year head start on entering the renewable fuels market.  Finally, John and Michael also discuss broader trends in trade secrets litigation, including the growing importance of trade secret law in emerging technologies like AI and machine learning, where trade secrets often offer more protection than patents. Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fmHost: John B. Quinn Producer: Alexis HydeMusic and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

John is joined by Catrin Griffiths and Christian Smith, the Editor-in-Chief and Litigation Editor of The Lawyer.  They discuss legal journalism in the UK.  John, Catrin and Christian agree that UK legal reporting is more analytical and critical of law firm strategies than U.S. legal journalism.  They attribute this to the UK’s centralized legal market in London and a British journalistic culture that favors accountability and critical analysis.  They explain that The Lawyer, originally a print magazine, has evolved into a digital platform combining news, data, and insight, providing in-depth analysis of law firms' performance and strategy.  The publication operates like a financial news outlet dedicated to the legal sector, reflecting the industry’s significant contribution to the UK economy.  It covers everything from major legal trends to firm strategies and even lighter, cultural stories within firms.  They also discuss the growing dominance of U.S. law firms in London, noting that American firms often outpace UK firms, perhaps due to longer working hours and more streamlined management.  Catrin explains that UK firms historically thrived with strong infrastructure and global networks, though they now face challenges adapting to market changes.  They also address cultural differences, such as the early retirement age at UK firms, contrasting with U.S. firms where partners often work well into their 70s.  Catrin and Christian also explain the importance of maintaining authenticity when law firms engage with journalists.  They advise against corporate jargon and encourage honest dialogue.  Finally, they discuss how stories about small quirky aspects of a firm’s culture can often reflect broader trends and resonate with readers.Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fmHost: John B. Quinn Producer: Alexis HydeMusic and Editing by: Alexander Rossi

Jacob Buchdahl, a partner at Susman Godfrey, recently clinched a landmark $1.6 billion judgment against China Construction America for BML Properties over the failed Baha Mar Resort project. He delves into the fraud and contract breaches that plagued the project, detailing how CCA misled BML about construction timelines. Jacob discusses his strategic focus on the fraudulent acts revealed in internal documents, which ultimately led to a devastating bankruptcy for BML. The conversation highlights the complexities of international construction law and the challenges of legal adaptation.

David Boies, Chairman and Founding Partner of Boies Schiller Flexner, discusses his storied legal career, highlighting his role in landmark cases like marriage equality and sex trafficking. He shares insights on the unique dynamics of trial advocacy, where he views trials as both morality plays and searches for truth. Boies candidly reflects on the aging process in law, balancing diminishing memory with enhanced judgment. They explore the challenges of legal billing structures and the pressures courtroom lawyers face, emphasizing the intricacies of justice.

John is joined by Dennis Hranitzky, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s New York office and Head of the firm’s Sovereign Litigation Practice; Alex Loomis, senior associate in Quinn Emanuel’s Boston office; and John Bash, partner in Quinn Emanuel’s Austin office and Co-Chair of the firm’s National Appellate Practice. They discuss sovereign debt litigation, particularly the challenges of enforcing judgments against sovereign entities, and the team’s recent success executing on over $310 million in assets to enforce in judgments against Argentina.  Dennis describes his decades-long history of enforcing judgments against Argentina, starting with a case for Elliott Management in 2002, where strategies like freezing Argentina out of capital markets and exposing corruption were key to recovery.  The team’s recent case focused on the collateral for Argentina's “Brady” bonds, instruments from the 1990s designed to make sovereign debt more tradable.  The enforcement litigation was not over the collateral itself, but on Argentina’s "reversionary interest" in the collateral.  Alex explains how the team discovered and leveraged admissions from Argentina's SEC filings to identify attachable assets, including Argentina’s reversionary interest in zero-coupon bonds held in New York and Germany.  The legal arguments involved nuanced interpretations of the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, including whether the reversionary interest qualified as commercial property subject to attachment and whether its situs (location) was in New York or Germany.  John Bash describes the appellate process, in which the Second Circuit upheld the attachment, agreeing that Argentina’s reversionary interest was a commercial asset located in New York.  The discussion highlights the intellectual rigor required in such cases, involving intricate property law and sovereign immunity issues. The podcast concludes with reflections on Argentina’s expected attempt to obtain review by the U.S. Supreme Court and the professional satisfaction the team derived from winning such a unique and challenging case.Podcast Link: Law-disrupted.fmHost: John B. Quinn Producer: Alexis HydeMusic and Editing by: Alexander Rossi