The Simple Heart w/ Wayne Hsiung

Hadar is the Thomas Miller Professor at UC Hastings College of the Law and an expert on criminal law. And the things she has discovered in the course of her research – for example, “pay to stay” schemes whereby prison inmates are forced to pay for their own incarceration, after they are released – have changed the way many view our system of criminal justice. But while Hadar has exposed all manner of corruption and injustice, to me, she has been a source of hope. This is true of her personal life, where she’s managed to balance an incredibly intense academic job, risky activism, and raising a child in a historically difficult moment in human history. It’s true of her academic and legal work, which has provided crucial support to the movement of open rescue – and also quite possibly saved my own legal license, when the industry attempted to have me disbarred. The most important source of hope, however, comes from her philosophy on life – that human beings, at root, are good and decent beings, and that truth has the ability to correct our flaws to create a better world for everyone. Hope should be a hard thing to maintain, when you’re in a position like Hadar’s – appreciating in deep detail the many injustices that our society ignores. But Hadar offers some tips in this podcast on how to do just that. Hadar's most recent book (2020) - Yesterday's Monsters: The Manson Family Cases and the Illusion of Parole Hadar's book (2019) - The Legal Process and the Promise of Justice Hadar's first book (2015) - Cheap On Crime Recession: Era Politics and the Transformation of American Punishment Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

Carter Dillard was a bright law student looking to make a difference in the world. And he did what most ambitious young lawyers do: he took a job with the most prestige, the so-called “honors” program at the Department of Justice. But when 9/11 happened, everything changed. He switched to the newly-created Department of Homeland Security and started working on “terrorism busts.” But something was wrong: the government wasn’t just using its power against actual terrorists. And, spurred by a chance encounter on the Washington Mall with animal rights activists, Carter made a sudden switch: from cop to “criminal.” Carter is a long-time friend and has some of the deepest knowledge of the law and history of animal rights in the movement. But the lessons he’s learned, on everything from human motivation to messaging, will be relevant to anyone interested in making change. Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

In less than 2 months, I go to trial, where I face more than 10 years in prison, for freeing animals from nightmarish abuse. It’s for that reason I thought it was particularly important to have this conversation now. Ingrid Newkirk, among animal advocates, is a household name, one of two people (along with Animal Liberation author Peter Singer) most known for the founding of the animal rights movement in the 1970s. And she has learned some lessons in that nearly half century of work that would serve all activists – and people interested in change – to hear. Consider the lesson of her book Free the Animals: when systems are broken, it’s important for us to take direct action. Whether it’s monkeys trapped in a lab or human beings having their rights violated, when corrupt institutions are failing to do their job, it has always taken grassroots activists to create change. Sometimes, this even involves people who are deeply embedded in these institutions, as was the case with “Valerie,” the police officer who, after witnessing disturbing inaction by the authorities, took it upon herself to free the animals herself – and launch the Animal Liberation Front in the United States. (Valerie’s story has just been republished, in Free the Animals’ 30th Anniversary edition. Along with Peter Singer’s Animal Liberation, it remains, in my view, one of the two foundational texts of the animal rights movement.) But perhaps the most important lesson from this conversation is less-obviously related to animal rights. It is the importance of remaining focused on a mission. Ingrid has been relentlessly focused on creating impact for animals for virtually her entire adult life. And while others are distracted and even defeated by various personal doubts and disagreements – e.g., one notable and fierce “disagreement” I had with Ingrid that became so heated for me that I ended up in a Chicago jail cell – Ingrid has always kept her eye on the prize. There’s power in this sort of focus, the power to change the world. Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

Jeremy Beckham is a long-time animal rights activist who I’ve wanted to have on the show for a while. For one, Jeremy has an encyclopedic knowledge of animal rights history – and the lessons from that history for anyone who cares about social change. For another, Jeremy has an important perspective on modern progressive politics, and how our desire for safety has insulated us from the very people we need to change. But probably the most important reason I wanted to have Jeremy on is that he’s lived one of the most interesting lives of anyone I know. Raided by the government while living in a “squat” house in Utah; touring the country to protest primate experiments with a band of stuffed animals (who saved him at a key moment in his tour); and diving into the darkest aspects of our society, into spaces that few people even know about, much less dare to explore… Jeremy’s biography would make for a wonderful movie. But it also has important lessons in it. Among the most important is this: to truly understand the world, or make change, you have to dive deep. This is a long one, but a fun one. Hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did, as Jeremy and I dive deep into a whole host of issues for nearly 3 hours. Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

Zoe Rosenberg and Sherstin Rosenberg are two of the most inspiring people I know. Shocked by the horrors of factory farming about 10 years ago, they decided to start a sanctuary for animals that had a unique focus: giving each individual animal world-class care. Zoe, as a teenager who ultimately would choose to be home-schooled, and Sherstin, a veterinarian trained at the best schools in the nation, were in the unique position to deliver on this vision. But they also created something else: A model for human politics.  You see, as our institutions fray, and our politics devolve into mud slinging or even violence, there’s something powerful about looking to our relationship to animals for inspiration on the world we can build with each other. I point out three ways the sanctuary can be a model for a fundamental transformation in human politics and society: resource provision; conflict mediation; and in so-called “terminal values.”  I have so much more to say about this subject, and especially that last point. (I have a draft post titled “The Empire of Kindness” that’s in the works.) But I think the best way to understand Happy Hen is to listen to its founders. Enjoy. Happy Hen Animal Sanctuary (website) Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

Alexandra Paul was on Baywatch, the most watched television show on the planet in the 1990s. But instead of following in the footsteps of other Hollywood stars, she did something different: she turned her life toward activism. When I asked Alexandra, who is one of the happiest and most centered people I know, why she took that route, she shared something I’ve heard before: that her privileges in life gave her the willingness to take on big risks. But as I listened to her speak, I wondered if the opposite might also be true: namely, whether her willingness to take big risks – choosing to become an actor and model over a more conventional life at Stanford; getting arrested early in her career; and taking on a cause (animal rights) that was far from popular when she took it up – was itself a reason that she became such a confident and secure person. Regardless of your answer to that question, I think you’ll find Alexandra’s life and stories fascinating – and perhaps learn something about how you can become a more confident person, too. Alexandra’s podcast: Switch4Good Also, for those of you who listen to the end of this podcast, you’ll hear that my birthday is coming up in a few days on June 18. Here’s a link to the fundraiser I’ve set up: https://www.facebook.com/donate/752497609261930 Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

On May 20, the Court of Appeals in Utah ruled against us in our effort to reverse a trial court order forbidding us from introducing evidence of animal cruelty in a criminal trial involving an open rescue at the largest pig farm in the nation. The decision, though not unexpected, was still a tough one. There is no factual dispute as to what happened; our defense rests on not what we did, but what was on our minds. The most important evidence as to our motive and intent will not be heard in court. If we are convicted, as a result of this improper and unconstitutional ruling, we could face more than 10 years in prison. It might surprise you, therefore, to hear that I am incredibly optimistic about this trial, which will begin on Sept 9 in Utah. I invited two of my co-defendants in the case, Paul Picklesimer and Jonathan Frohnmayer, on the podcast to break down why – and detail how two prior efforts by the industry to cover-up misconduct have backfired spectacularly. Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

In 1968, Doug McAdam was an aspiring basketball player and occasional anti-war activist when he heard the devastating news: Martin Luther King, Jr. had been assassinated. He pulled over to the side of the road and started bawling. But things only got worse that year. Within months, Bobby Kennedy, who many believed would be the next President of the United States, was also murdered. And when the Democratic National Convention ignored the wishes of primary voters and selected a pro-war candidate, riots broke out on the streets. The nation was gripped by fear, anger, and violence. And yet, the period after the 1968 convention was a period of positive change: an end to the Vietnam War, the passage of the groundbreaking Clean Water Act, and the Supreme Court’s decision in Roe v. Wade. As an acclaimed sociologist at Stanford, Doug has now spent a lifetime understanding how change of that sort happened. And it turns out that anger — often seen as an emotion that stifles progress — was central to the social transformations of the 1970s. In fact, anger is one of the two central emotions that have driven social change for generations. That is perhaps good news for those who seek change today. The anger, and deep sense of injustice in the world, are palpable; and that feeling crosses the political spectrum, from Tucker Carlson to Bernie Sanders. There was another emotional ingredient in 1968, however, that Doug believes is missing in movements today: hope. You see, anger without hope for change is counterproductive; it leads people to cynicism and even inaction. And despite the killings and riots of 1968, the 1960s were a time of immense hope. People felt that all the tumult was building toward something better. That’s not true today. Whether the issue is wage inequality or the climate crisis, most people don’t see much hope for change. This is one of the reasons that, despite the fact that we have not seen the violence of the 1960s, Doug believes the present moment to be the most intense crisis he’s personally experienced in American history – even more than the tumult of the 1960s! But that does not mean all is lost. Skilled movements through history have found hope in crisis. And it can be done again. This conversation is about a lot of things – the pitfalls of social movements, the evidence on how movements grow, and the challenges of activism in a digital era – but perhaps the most important topic is the question of how we can inspire hope. And, without giving things away, there’s a one-word answer: community. This was a fascinating conversation with one of the deepest and most evidence-based thinkers on the question of social change. And many of you contributed to it, by offering questions (including audio recordings) in advance. Let me know what you think, and thanks, as always, for listening. Doug’s pioneering study on social ties and activism Doug’s book on the Freedom Summer, a historic effort to register Black voters in 1964 Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

Katie Cleary is a model, actor, entrepreneur, and documentary maker. She has not only hung out with some of the biggest names in Hollywood – but also headed out to the frontlines of animal abuse, to protect endangered wildlife from poachers who are armed to the teeth. But she’s also something else: a Christian. And while I sought Katie out for this conversation because of her work protecting endangered animals, we ended up talking about another vanishing species: progressives with deep religious faith. This was a challenging conversation for me. While I identify as Buddhist, I don’t believe in anything beyond the material realm; my Buddhism is more philosophical than it is spiritual. That’s why it was surprising to me that I found so much to value in what Katie shared about her faith: a code to live by, stories to inspire good deeds, and above all, a sense of purpose beyond oneself. I doubt I’ll become religious myself. But conversations like this one have changed the way I see faith. And it might give you some food for thought, too. Trailer for Why on Earth Is animal rights a “religion”? Music by Moby: Everything That Rises

Jane Velez-Mitchell is a former news anchor who created one of the biggest grassroots platforms for information on animal rights. She’s also a recovering alcoholic, who speaks openly about some of her most embarrassing experiences as an addict. And the mistakes Jane has made have, in many ways, given her the wisdom and strength to succeed. What’s true for Jane, however, is true of so many other institutions in society today. The media. Politics. And even mainstream dietary practices. Jane argues that the consumption of animals, for example, is a form of addiction. And that perspective should reshape the way we think about the problem of killing animals for food. What if it’s not a choice, in any meaningful way, but a disease of the human hive mind? Then the problems for solving the problem, as you see in this conversation, might be very different. In particular, maybe the key to creating change is cultivating a sense of openness, for all of us collectively to admit our mistakes, rather than assigning blame or cultivating shame. UnChainedTV.com - Jane’s platform and app for animal rights Trust in media hits new low Music by Moby: Everything That Rises