Latter Day Struggles

Send us a Positive Review!Series Title: Real Talk about the Book of Mormon [Part IV of IV]Join Valerie and special guest Paul Toscano in this part four (last in this series) focused on untangling some of the complexities of The Book of Mormon.In this episode Val questions Paul on a variety of topics involving The Book of Mormon, including its connection with Joseph Smith Jr., her own wrestles with the fraught relationship between leadership & followership;  the roles, expectations, and hopes of a spiritual leader, and so much more.Here are a few teasers to get you excited to listen in to this conversation:All mystical texts, trancelike experiences, and visionary accounts are strange, uncomfortable, and often implausible—including the very birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.God has shown humans mysteries through a variety of “weird” manifestations with large numbers of eye witnesses throughout time. One of the greatest tests of true discipleship is to learn to forgive God…for the pain of our suffering…for Their not preventing harm to those we love at the hands of those in powerThis kind of discipleship forces us to learn how to hold the tension of opposites and demands that (if willing) we be stretched beyond our known capabilities. This process makes us holy.Finally, Paul shares these views: Salvation is not a community experience.  Salvation is an individual experience and it happens in the act of saving wounded things.  The individual saves the church, not the other way around. The individual saves the family, not the other way around.  You won't want to miss this conversation with one of Mormonism's great scholars.  These conversations with Paul are breathtaking.  Support the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!Series Title: Real Talk about the Book of Mormon [Part III of IV]Join Valerie and special guest Paul Toscano in this part three on a series focusing on untangling some of the complexities of the Book of Mormon.  Paul had a lot of fascinating ideas about this topic including 3 ways to look at the Book of Mormon:As a historical record (the most immature, irrelevant, and unhelpful approach)For its literary value (perhaps interesting but often not transformative)As a mystical/visionary text (as a living, supernatural text intended to be interpreted by the reader with the objective to transform in ways only possible by suspending one’s demand for proof, evidence, certainty.)According to Paul there are several reasons why very few people are able to approach the Book of Mormon as a mystical/visionary text:We currently live in a world steeped in scientific materialism. Our minds are socialized in understanding and valuing only the rational and literal; often struggling to interpret the spiritual, supernatural, or mystical. The LDS church itself has proven to be a huge stumbling block through its decades-long efforts to “prove” that the Book of Mormon is a historical text, hoping that by proving its historical truth, it might thereby “prove” to be the “only” true church. The LDS church leadership have provided additional stumbling blocks through their heavily correlated efforts to prescribe dogmatic meaning to the text rather than allow readers to find meaning for themselves in this and other mystical texts.Toscano contends that The Book of Mormon was never intended to “prove” that the LDS church is true, but rather has one—and only one—prominent purpose.  Book References in this Episode:The Sanctity of Dissent, by Paul ToscanoMormonism in Crisis: A Critique and a Defense, by Paul ToscanoLatter-Day Dissent, by Paul ToscanoStrangers in Paradox: Explorations in Mormon Theology, by Margaret and Paul ToscanoPodcasts Referenced in this Episode: Mormon Stories EpisodeGospel Tangents EpisodeThe Toscano DialoguesSupport the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!Series Title: Real Talk about the Book of Mormon [Part II of IV]In this second of a four part series tackling various aspects of the Book of Mormon with a couple of prominent Mormon theologians, Valerie continues to talk to Taylor Petrey about the negative impact that many current members are experiencing around the overly simplistic narrative regarding the translation of the Book of Mormon, its origin, meaning, and literalness.Valerie contends that this complicates one’s ability to read this book and find its potential gems of truth from a place of candid openness when it brings up other complicated feelings related to historical transparency and a long culture within the church that is "faith promoting" at the expense of complex reality.Too much to say in the show notes about this vibrant and loaded topic!! Listen to these episodes and discern for yourself if/how the Book of Mormon can lead you closer to Jesus Christ.Links for the lit review referenced in this podcast series:The Dialogue Journal: Dialogue Topic Pages #7: Book of Mormon Topics, Part 1⁠⁠The Dialogue Journal: Dialogue Topic Pages #8: Book of Mormon Topics, Part Support the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!Series Title: Real Talk about the Book of Mormon [Part I of IV]It's time to take a deep dive into what may be a psychologically and spiritually confusing topic for many expanding members in and around the LDS church—THE BOOK OF MORMON. In this FIRST of a four part series tackling many complex aspects of the Book of Mormon with prominent Mormon scholars, Valerie begins the conversation with friend and colleague Taylor Petrey (editor in chief of the Dialogue Journal of Mormon Thought) where together they review a myriad of topics that have been addressed over the years in the Dialogue Journal related to the ongoing skirmish between the “naturalist” and the “apologist” camps regarding authorship, authenticity, and historicity (just to name a few!).They talk about the Isaiah controversy, chiasmus, contemporary doctrines of the early 19th century woven into this text, DNA issues, and the rise and fall of FARMS (Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Study) among other important topics. They also address thoughts from religious scholars (LDS and non-LDS) who maintain that regardless of the above complexities, the Book might be (and has been) valuable for many, once it’s genre is better understood and if it were read as scripture rather than history.  In the second segment of this series, Valerie engages Taylor in a dialogue about the challenging relationship that many people in and around the LDS church have about The Book of Mormon due to their early learnings that were overly simplistic or inaccurate regarding the translation of the Book of Mormon, its origin, meaning, and literalness. Links for the lit review referenced in this podcast series: The Dialogue Journal: Dialogue Topic Pages #7: Book of Mormon Topics, Part 1The Dialogue Journal: Dialogue Topic Pages #8: Book of Mormon Topics, Part 2Support the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!While *generally* trying to avoid “taking pages out of Satan’s playbook” [which sounds both a little terrifying and very intriguing at the same time], Val and Nathan recently found themselves at odds in their respective interpretations and experiences listening to P. Nelson’s April 2023 General Conference address titled “Peacemakers Needed”. Listen in and see how healthy it is to have different thoughts, feelings, and interpretations regarding religious experience.  The ability to tolerate and even celebrate the otherness of others is what creates true connection.  Link to the address:Peacemakers Needed, by President Russell M. NelsonSupport the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!This episode introduces the concept of “non-hierarchical revelation” as key to the spiritual health of any Christ centered organization.This episode dives into ideas about how revelation going in both directions:1] creates a synergistic partnership between leadership and lay membership where both parties are increasingly growing in their abilities to not only communicate with God, but also where all parties learn to work together as spiritual equals2] insulates the church from the misplaced idea that God limits revelation to those with certain positions of formal power3] protects leaders from a burden of perfection in receiving revelation that no one cannot be expected to maintain 4] takes the pressure off of leaders [and their predecessors]  from fruitlessly defending their own stances when their directions prove afterwards not to have been revelatory.In sum, the model of non-hierarchal revelation invites our entire spiritual community to become more mature, seeking, and collaborative as it spreads out the burden of responsibility amongst the entire body of the church! Book and chapter referenced heavily in this episode:  Women and Authority: Re-Emerging Mormon Feminism, edited by Maxine Hanks.  Chapter title:  “Non-Hierarchical  Revelation” by Todd ComptonSupport the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!Join Val and Nathan in this episode where they respond to the address recently given in April 2023 general conference by Allen D Haynie, titled “A Living Prophet for our Day”. Specific points from this address explored:The rule-of-thumb suggested privileging current prophetic counsel over past prophetic counsel when contradictions surfaceParents who teach and model by example the importance of personal discernment over strict compliance to church authorities will inevitably negatively impact their children's spirituality, andExact obedience to the prophet protects us from a hostile and dangerous worldVal and Nathan discuss troubling nature of the tactic of fear used to motivate obedience throughout this address. They also discuss the problematic nature of the “water bottle crushing” example as one that might suggest compliance to the inessential [or nonsensical] as a new form of higher law. They explore how the "water bottle crushing" antidote also invites inappropriate scrutiny upon a fellow mortal and exacerbates the perceived power differential that inhibits both leaders and constituents from living healthy, autonomous lives in respectful support of one another.This entire episode calls for the need for personal discernment as the fundamental guiding principle in guiding all of our choices in our discipleship of Jesus Christ.Support the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!In this episode Valerie and Nathan reminisce about the "good ol’ days" when they anticipated General Conference and the spiritual feasting that it involved.  This podcast (111th semi-weekly session, btw ;) of reminiscing was produced mainly to help many of us make sense of the very complicated feelings we have when the first weeks of April and October roll around.What do some of us feel?  Based on their conversations with dozens of Latter Day Struggles Support Group Members…Many feel trauma activated within our bodies due to past (and the anticipation of future) spiritually and psychologically damaging sermons that condemn us and our friends and loved ones. Many feel frustration over what feels like ongoing blindness to the pain of individuals and families in faith crisis feeling unseen, unheard, and misunderstood.Many feel invisible at the ongoing underrepresentation of the female gender in a church that proclaims gender equality but does little to  display this in doctrine or practice.And then there is grief.  Grief at the memory of when General Conference used to mean simplicity, sweet rolls, and maybe bingo games.  This memory feels like life in another dimension altogether. It was certainly back in another stage of life and spiritual development.Val and Nathan share thoughts and feelings about the growing pains of transitioning from a relationship between the compliant and slightly frightened child [our old selves] relating to the overly protective authoritarian parent [the institution], to their present relationship, which they insist becomes like one between two adults relating to each other from a place of discernment, choice, and candor.Support the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!In this episode Val and Nathan explore what it takes to form a psychologically healthy system…whether this system is an immediate or extended family group, a relief society class, priesthood quorum, Sunday school group, or any combination of people who come together regularly to share some part of their lives, thoughts, feelings, or experiences.Val and Nathan walk through the four stages that all groups of people must pass through to become a safe and vibrant place for human growth and development in an interpersonal setting.The four stages of healthy community development are:PSEUDO-COMMUNITY (faking common experience, belief, and agreement in the majority narrative)CHAOS (someone shares a differing idea, experience, perspective, and others frantically try to reconvert them back to their way of thinking, feeling, believing)EMPTYING (the mandatory inner work of emptying ourselves of self righteousness, expectations, pride, the need to convert, heal, and save others)TRUE COMMUNITY  (Where people come together and support one another in their own unique journey, accepting others exactly where they are and allowing love—not same belief—to drive connection and unity)Join Val and Nathan as they break down these concepts, share personal experiences, thoughts, and feelings about the challenges of pseudo-community, how to invite healthy community, why community building is especially challenging in systems created around a foundation of supposed right belief, and how even an ongoing personal “emptying” is healing and helpful in cultivating healthy relationship with others when larger scale community building seems daunting.Support the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website

Send us a Positive Review!In this episode Valerie reviews some fascinating ideas about the relationship between cognitive dissonance and self justification and applies these ideas to humanity, institutions, churches, and the LDS church.She walks you through the following ideas:why humans and institutions self justifywhy people in leadership are especially prone to self justificationwhy entire communities get caught up in self justifying behaviorsthe self-justifying tactics people and institutions use when they are called out for questionable behaviorswhat can be done to overcome the tendency to self justify In this episode Valerie applies principles of “self justification theory” to make sense of both historical and current struggles within the LDS church where this concept seems to readily apply.  This episode is intended to help faith expanding Latter-day Saints better understand the nature of their struggles as well as shine a light on typical phenomenon connected to the human experience that might be manifest on the faith journey. The book referenced throughout this episode is calledMistakes Were Made (But Not By Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions and Hurtful Acts, by Carol Tavris, Marsha Mercant, et al.Support the showListen, Share, Rate & Review EPISODES Friday Episodes Annual Subscription $89 Friday Episodes Monthly Subscription $10 Valerie’s Support & Processing Groups Donate: ⁠Venmo or Patreon⁠ Visit our Website