The Non-Billable Podcast

Private equity and other forms of external capital are moving into the legal sector - a shift that is very likely to reshape law firm strategy. In this episode, we speak with Travis Lenkner, chief development officer at Burford Capital, the world’s largest provider of legal finance, about why investors are increasingly eyeing law firms and what that means for the market.Travis shares his unique perspective, having worked as a litigator at Gibson Dunn, served as senior counsel at Boeing, co-founded litigation funder Gerchen Keller Capital (later acquired by Burford), and launched his own law firm before rejoining Burford in 2024. Now focused on exploring potential equity investments in law firms, Travis explains the forces driving investor interest - from the UK’s long-standing ABS regime to growing recognition of law as a professional services market ripe for consolidation and technology-led transformation.We discuss the different ends of the market attracting attention, from private equity-backed regional roll-ups to strategic growth capital for top-tier global firms. Travis explains why Burford prefers minority stakes, the kinds of structures that make sense for law firms wary of losing control, and how outside capital can fund strategic hires, technology investment and geographic expansion. He also tackles the challenges of the traditional partnership model and the cultural shifts required to align incentives with long-term growth.Finally, Travis offers insights on the evolving US market - where regulatory constraints mean law firm investment often looks different - and why he expects both markets to develop rapidly in the next five years. Chapters 00:45 Introduction to Travis And Career Journey02:31 Understanding Burford Capital's Role in Legal Finance04:50 The Financial Model Behind Litigation Funding05:46 The Rise of External Capital in Law Firms06:12 Investment Strategies for Law Firms09:13 The Future of Law Firms in a Competitive Market13:46 The Evolving Landscape of Law Firm Investments17:28 Navigating Risks in Law Firm Dynamics19:20 Understanding Investor Exit Strategies24:14 Burford's Unique Position in Legal Investments25:26 Targeting Growth in Boutique Law Firms29:35 The Future of the US Legal Market34:24 Burford's Portfolio in Five YearsAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Ross McNairn is the founder and CEO of Wordsmith, one of the fastest-growing legal AI startups in Europe. In this episode, Ross shares how Wordsmith is rethinking the in-house legal function - not just with automation, but with a new model for how legal teams can triage and respond to the rest of the business using AI agents.We talk through the challenges of in-house legal teams, why Wordsmith is laser-focused on corporate legal rather than law firms, and how AI assistants are shifting legal from being perceived as a blocker to a true business enabler. Ross also explains how their customers - including companies like Trustpilot - are using the platform to improve responsiveness and efficiency across functions.Ross opens up about raising $25 million from Index Ventures, how Wordsmith became the fastest Scottish company to hit a $100 million valuation, and why they’ve been disciplined about staying lean, product-led, and focused on usage over hype. He also shares his thoughts on legal AI funding trends, the law firm vs in-house tech split, and the future of generalist vs vertical solutions in the space.Whether you’re a GC thinking about legal AI adoption, a lawyer eyeing a career move into tech, or just curious about how legal is changing from the inside, this is a conversation with a founder building at the forefront of the industry.Chapters 00:45 From Law to Software00:53 The Role of AI in Legal Workflows02:11 Introducing Wordsmith05:08 AI Agents: Enhancing Legal Productivity08:08 Customer Success Stories: Real-World Impact of Wordsmith10:57 Sales Strategy: Building Trust in Legal Tech13:55 Funding and Future Plans: Scaling Wordsmith16:30 Building a Lean Company17:27 Hiring for Legal Intelligence19:06 Motivations For People Joining Wordsmith20:50 Competitors in the Legal Tech Space21:17 Wordsmith's Suite of Tools22:16 Future of Legal Tech Solutions23:38 Impact of Recent Partnerships in Legal Tech26:02 Data Needs for In-House Legal Teams28:00 Investment Boom in Legal Tech29:27 Wordsmith's Strategy for Success32:31 Trends in Legal Tech33:25 Hiring Challenges at Wordsmith34:01 Vision for Wordsmith in 2030About Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Adil Taha, a former investment banker and private equity executive, shares his expert insights into the intersection of private equity and the legal sector. He discusses the mechanics of law firm deals and the buy-and-build strategies gaining traction post-COVID. Adil reveals the unique challenges of law firm public listings, emphasizing the cultural clash between legal norms and market expectations. He also identifies opportunities for creating high-performance boutiques, showcasing how private equity could reshape traditional legal practices.

In this episode, we’re joined by Ed Parker, managing director at Fides Search and one of the most trusted headhunters in the City legal market. With nearly two decades of experience advising on partner and team moves, Ed brings a nuanced, data-driven perspective on how top firms are growing, and what that means for lawyers navigating their careers.We explore the structural shifts happening across the partner talent market, from the aggressive expansion of US firms in London to the growing importance of team moves and due diligence in lateral hiring. Ed explains why some firms are placing massive bets on high-performing partners, how they price those hires, and what really determines whether a client book will travel.For ambitious associates, this episode is packed with insight. Ed shares honest advice on timing your move, the risks of chasing quick promotions, and how to position yourself for long-term success - whether that’s through internal promotion or switching platforms. He also unpacks the rise of non-equity partnerships and what clients really care about when it comes to partner titles.Finally, we touch on where the market is headed in the second half the year, from fast-moving jurisdictions like Saudi and Luxembourg to the enduring pull of London as a legal hub. If you're interested in the economics, strategy, and personal dynamics behind law firm hiring, this is one not to miss.Chapters00:45 Introduction & About Fides Search03:45 What Headhunting Actually Involves07:15 Building a Practice from Scratch10:15 The State of the Partner Market in 202514:15 UK Firms: Adapting or Falling Behind?17:30 Team Moves vs. Individual Lateral Hires21:15 The Economics of Big Hires25:45 Is This an Existential Threat to UK Firms?30:15 The Rise of Non-Equity Partners35:15 Advice for Ambitious Associates43:45 Market Outlook for H2 202547:45 Connect with Ed & Fides SearchAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with Richard East, the founding partner of Quinn Emanuel’s London office - the litigation powerhouse that has gone from a 2008 startup to one of the UK’s most profitable disputes firms, with revenues topping £220 million last year. Richard shares how he built the practice from scratch during the height of the financial crisis.We discuss Quinn Emanuel’s distinctive model: no corporate teams, no panels, no conflicts - and no apologies about taking on the banks. Richard explains why that singular focus has been so powerful, and how the firm’s “door-to-door” approach to marketing - cold-calling and in-person meetings - helped them land early clients that fuelled their growth.Richard also opens up about recruiting and compensation, including why Quinn refuses to follow the Cravath scale, why they pay comfortably above Magic Circle firms, and why entrepreneurial mindset is non-negotiable for new partners. He describes a culture that rewards independence and drive - and expects associates to own cases, not just take instructions.We wrap up with Richard’s thoughts on competition, the evolution of the Magic Circle, and what comes next. He shares why he sees massive potential in using AI to stay ahead, why he isn’t afraid of giant mergers, and why after 17 years he still feels like there’s much more to build.Chapters00:40 Launching Quinn Emanuel London in 200804:00 Building a Litigation-Only Practice from Scratch07:20 Marketing that Actually Works: Cold-Calling and Door-to-Door Meetings11:00 Winning Early Clients During the Financial Crisis14:40 How the Firm Thinks About Talent and Compensation20:00 Culture, Independence, and Entrepreneurial DNA24:30 Perspectives on the Magic Circle and Big Law Competitors29:30 The Role of AI and the Future of Litigation33:40 Leadership Lessons from 17 Years at the Helm36:30 Ambition for the Next ChapterAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we speak with Jonathan Keen, head of international legal at Figma - one of the fastest-growing SaaS companies in the world. Jonny leads legal across EMEA, APAC, and Japan, supporting the business through constant product innovation, geographic expansion and a rapidly evolving regulatory landscape.He shares what it’s really like to be the legal lead at a hypergrowth company, from negotiating major enterprise SaaS deals to navigating complex EU tech regulation. Jonny gives a behind-the-scenes view of how his team supports global scale, and what he looks for in the external law firms Figma relies on.We also dive into legal tech and AI, and why Jonny cares more about lawyers who understand tech than what tools they use. He shares his view on how AI is impacting in-house teams, and what traits set great in-house lawyers apart.Chapters00:40 Jonny’s role at Figma02:00 What legal looks like inside a rocketship04:00 A typical day (if one exists)06:30 Enterprise SaaS negotiations: fast and slow lanes08:40 How legal supports the business without breaking it10:00 Working with law firms: what matters12:30 AI and legal tech at Figma15:00 The EU regulatory wave18:00 The compliance burden for mid-market companies20:00 In-house vs private practice: what AI disrupts23:00 What he looks for in new hires25:00 Judgement, humility and curiosity27:00 Advice for lawyers considering a move in-house29:30 The future: what’s next for JonnyAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we sit down with Richard Mabey, the co-founder and CEO of Juro. A former Freshfields lawyer, Richard left private practice in 2013 to pursue an MBA and later joined LegalZoom, before launching Juro in 2016. Nearly a decade on, the company is now one of Europe’s leading legal tech startups, helping fast-scaling businesses automate their contract processes and manage legal work with a radically different approach.Richard talks candidly about his founder journey - from teaching himself to code in the early days, to building a company that's now helping hundreds of legal teams deploy AI agents directly into tools like Slack and Microsoft Teams. We dig into how Juro thinks differently about contract lifecycle management, why Mabey believes the next generation of legal work will be agent-led, and what it really takes to get lawyers to embrace automation.We also cover why Mabey thinks legal teams are being asked to do more with less, how agentic AI is already substituting junior-level tasks, and why the CLM category may be ripe for consolidation. Whether you're building legal tech, working in-house, or trying to understand what the future of legal work might look like, this episode is full of insight from one of the sector’s most thoughtful founders.Chapters00:30 Introduction: From Freshfields to Founding Juro03:44 Starting Small: Building a Legal Tech Community07:00 What Scale-Up GCs Really Care About10:15 The Lawyer’s Role in an AI-First World13:52 The Impact of Agentic AI on In-House Teams17:05 The Training Problem for Junior Lawyers21:10 The End of the Law Firm Pyramid?24:30 How Juro’s Agents Actually Work27:48 Replacing Low-Value Work with Automation30:33 From Founder Doubts to Product Inflection34:10 Building a Legal Tech Startup in the "Dark Ages"36:45 Fundraising Lessons and Conviction in the Problem39:30 How Juro Differs from Traditional CLMs42:58 Defining the Agentic AI Opportunity44:42 Why Legal Tech Will Consolidate (Eventually)46:35 The Vision for Juro and the Future of Legal WorkAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Ian Bagshaw is a City law private equity partner now heading up the London office of US law firm Perkins Coie which he launched in 2024. A highly experienced corporate lawyer with nearly 30 years in the field, he is recognised for his leadership in the private equity market at both UK and US law firms.Before joining Perkins Coie, he was co-head of private equity at White & Case, where he built one of London’s top private equity practices. Before that, he held senior roles at Linklaters (co-head of private equity) and was also a partner at Clifford Chance.In this conversation, Ian discusses his return to law to lead Perkins Coie's launch in London, emphasising the strategic timing and focus on tech clients and founders. He shares insights on building a startup culture within the firm, the importance of talent experience, and the impact of private capital on the legal industry. Ian outlines his vision for the future of Perkins in Europe, highlighting the need for a differentiated approach in a competitive market.Chapters00:40 Introduction to Perkins Coie and London Launch06:10 Focus on Tech Clients and Founders13:10 Building a Startup Culture in a Law Firm17:50 Training and Development Strategies for Talent19:10 Vision for Perkins Coie in the Next Decade22:20 Private Capital’s Impact on Big Law28:44 Investment Dynamics and the Future of Law Firms34:25 The Changing Landscape of Legal Practice37:20 Advice for Junior LawyersAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

Shruti Ajitsaria is a partner at A&O Shearman and the head of Fuse, the firm’s legal tech incubator. Since launching Fuse in 2017, Shruti has helped A&O engage with over 60 startups, run dozens of pilots, and turn legal tech from a buzzword into a real driver of value for both lawyers and clients.In this conversation, Shruti shares how she went from credit derivatives lawyer to leading one of the legal industry's most ambitious innovation programmes. She explains how Fuse works behind the scenes, why A&O Shearman was willing to take a risk on her idea, and what separates the legal tech startups that scale from those that stall.We also get into how the merger with Shearman & Sterling is expanding Fuse’s reach, what clients really expect from law firms when it comes to tech, and why true innovation in legal isn’t just about adopting tools, but creating a culture that’s open to change.Whether you’re a founder looking to partner with firms, a lawyer curious about the future of your role, or just someone interested in how a 100-year-old organisation builds like a startup - this conversation is well worth a listen.Chapters00:40 From Credit Derivatives to Legal Tech03:20 How Fuse Was Born06:17 Launching Fuse and Becoming Partner08:15 What Makes a Startup Right for Fuse09:40 Inside the Incubator: How Startups Work with A&O12:00 Definely, StructureFlow & Building Success Stories14:23 The Anatomy of a Great Legal Tech Founder17:50 Fuse’s Impact Inside the Firm20:41 Legal Tech as Strategy22:25 Innovation Starts at the Top26:26 The A&O Shearman Merger and US Expansion28:23 What Clients Expect in 202520:05 Where Legal Tech Disruption Hits First32:18 Bonus Round: Trends, Hype, and Career AdviceAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk

In this episode, we speak with Philip Young - a former City litigation partner, founder of boutique firm Cooke, Young & Keidan, and now co-founder of Garfield AI, the first AI-powered law firm to gain regulatory approval from the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA).Young shares the origin story behind Garfield, which began as a personal frustration with how hard it was for small businesses to recover unpaid debts - even when the law was clearly on their side. After retiring from CYK and taking a road trip across America, he encountered the first wave of generative AI tools and quickly saw the opportunity to build something game-changing: an intelligent assistant capable of running an entire small claims case, from letter before action to trial bundle.We go deep on how Garfield works, the SRA’s lengthy but supportive approval process, and what it means for the legal industry that a product like this now exists. Young also explains why concerns about overwhelming the small claims courts are misplaced, how he sees AI improving rather than replacing legal work, and why he remains cautious about VC money despite a flurry of inbound interest.With candid insights on access to justice, the role of human oversight, and how legal services might be delivered in the next decade, this is a conversation about a whole new category of legal services as much as it is about a new AI tool.Chapters00:45 From Law to Entrepreneurship: Philip Young's Journey11:57 The Birth of Garfield AI: Inspiration and Development24:13 Access to Justice and AI's Role28:21 SRA Approval Process and Regulatory Challenges33:30 Garfield's Vision and Future Products39:45 The Future of Law and AI's Impact on Junior Lawyers43:30 Finding Garfield and the Story Behind the NameAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals, brought to you by a small team of former City lawyers and finance professionals.Visit our website: ⁠⁠https://www.nonbillable.co.uk