Summary Data transformation is a key activity for all of the organizational roles that interact with data. Because of its importance and outsized impact on what is possible for downstream data consumers it is critical that everyone is able to collaborate seamlessly. SQLMesh was designed as a unifying tool that is simple to work with but powerful enough for large-scale transformations and complex projects. In this episode Toby Mao explains how it works, the importance of automatic column-level lineage tracking, and how you can start using it today. Announcements Hello and welcome to the Data Engineering Podcast, the show about modern data management RudderStack helps you build a customer data platform on your warehouse or data lake. Instead of trapping data in a black box, they enable you to easily collect customer data from the entire stack and build an identity graph on your warehouse, giving you full visibility and control. Their SDKs make event streaming from any app or website easy, and their extensive library of integrations enable you to automatically send data to hundreds of downstream tools. Sign up free at dataengineeringpodcast.com/rudderstack- Your host is Tobias Macey and today I'm interviewing Toby Mao about SQLMesh, an open source DataOps framework designed to scale data transformations with ease of collaboration and validation built in Interview Introduction How did you get involved in the area of data management? Can you describe what SQLMesh is and the story behind it? DataOps is a term that has been co-opted and overloaded. What are the concepts that you are trying to convey with that term in the context of SQLMesh? What are the rough edges in existing toolchains/workflows that you are trying to address with SQLMesh? How do those rough edges impact the productivity and effectiveness of teams using those Can you describe how SQLMesh is implemented? How have the design and goals evolved since you first started working on it? What are the lessons that you have learned from dbt which have informed the design and functionality of SQLMesh? For teams who have already invested in dbt, what is the migration path from or integration with dbt? You have some built-in integration with/awareness of orchestrators (currently Airflow). What are the benefits of making the transformation tool aware of the orchestrator? What do you see as the potential benefits of integration with e.g. data-diff? What are the second-order benefits of using a tool such as SQLMesh that addresses the more mechanical aspects of managing transformation workfows and the associated dependency chains? What are the most interesting, innovative, or unexpected ways that you have seen SQLMesh used? What are the most interesting, unexpected, or challenging lessons that you have learned while working on SQLMesh? When is SQLMesh the wrong choice? What do you have planned for the future of SQLMesh? Contact Info tobymao on GitHub @captaintobs on Twitter Website Parting Question From your perspective, what is the biggest gap in the tooling or technology for data management today? Closing Announcements Thank you for listening! Don't forget to check out our other shows. Podcast.__init__ covers the Python language, its community, and the innovative ways it is being used. The Machine Learning Podcast helps you go from idea to production with machine learning. Visit the site to subscribe to the show, sign up for the mailing list, and read the show notes. If you've learned something or tried out a project from the show then tell us about it! Email hosts@dataengineeringpodcast.com) with your story. To help other people find the show please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends and co-workers Links SQLMesh Tobiko Data SAS AirBnB Minerva SQLGlot Cron AST == Abstract Syntax Tree Pandas Terraform dbt Podcast Episode SQLFluff Podcast.__init__ Episode The intro and outro music is from The Hug by The Freak Fandango Orchestra / CC BY-SASponsored By:Rudderstack:  RudderStack provides all your customer data pipelines in one platform. You can collect, transform, and route data across your entire stack with its event streaming, ETL, and reverse ETL pipelines. RudderStack’s warehouse-first approach means it does not store sensitive information, and it allows you to leverage your existing data warehouse/data lake infrastructure to build a single source of truth for every team. RudderStack also supports real-time use cases. You can Implement RudderStack SDKs once, then automatically send events to your warehouse and 150+ business tools, and you’ll never have to worry about API changes again. Visit [dataengineeringpodcast.com/rudderstack](https://www.dataengineeringpodcast.com/rudderstack) to sign up for free today, and snag a free T-Shirt just for being a Data Engineering Podcast listener.Support Data Engineering Podcast

Toby Mao, co-founder and CTO of Tobiko Data, shares insights from his rich experience at Netflix and Airbnb in this engaging discussion. He dives into the transformative journey of building SQLMesh, highlighting its innovative features for data operations. The conversation contrasts SQLMesh with DBT, showcasing SQLMesh's strengths in state management and error checking. Toby also emphasizes the importance of the semantic layer in data quality and shares the collaborative spirit behind SQLMesh's community, making it a vital tool for modern data engineering.

Toby Mao, Founder of SQL Mesh, talks about simplifying data transformations. He discusses experimentation best practices, data tools, driving cars, and much more.