Join Sergiu Klainerman, a Princeton mathematician known for his work on black holes, David Berlinski, a philosophical writer and math educator, and Stephen Meyer, director at the Discovery Institute, as they delve into the profound mystery of mathematics. They debate if math is invented or discovered, discuss the 'unreasonable effectiveness' of math in physics, and contemplate its implications for materialism. The conversation intertwines concepts of beauty in science, the nature of reality, and whether numbers hint at a deeper, perhaps transcendent, truth.