Michelle Haas, a defense analyst at Ghent University, discusses how European states are reacting to the proposed 5% defense spending goal amidst the Ukraine conflict. Sammy Mahdi, leader of Belgium's CD&V, vehemently opposes the goal, calling it 'crazy' and raises concerns about budget reallocations affecting social programs. Ralf Stegner, a senior German Social Democrat, advocates for prioritizing diplomacy over militarization, emphasizing the need to balance defense investments with domestic welfare. The episode dives into the political complexities around Europe's defense policies.