In a fascinating conversation, Sahar Heydari Fard, an assistant professor of philosophy at Ohio State University, dives deep into the nexus of complexity theory and social dynamics. She discusses how small shifts can lead to substantial societal change, emphasizing the importance of reevaluating normative claims. Through examples like historical foot binding, she illustrates the challenges of altering entrenched traditions. Heydari Fard also explores collective action problems, highlighting how cooperation can be undermined by self-interest, ultimately shaping our understanding of justice and societal improvement.