In this conversation, Roger Cohen, a physician focused on cancer drug development, and Amy Wax, a law professor, delve into themes from their book 'The War on Science.' They examine the ideological corruption in academia and the impact of social justice activism on scientific integrity. Topics include the effects of cancel culture on open debate, the challenges posed by DEI initiatives in medicine, and the political influences on research funding. Together, they advocate for a return to empirical evidence in educational reform and medical training.