In this lively discussion, Gordon Brander, a tech innovator, and Peter van Hardenberg, a software expert, join host Jess Martin to debate apps versus files. They explore the complexities of data ownership and the collaboration benefits of apps. The trio dives into historical perspectives and innovative solutions, including decentralized tools like Subconscious. They also tackle the future of file management, security challenges, and the importance of user control in a rapidly evolving digital landscape.

Peter van Hardenberg, director of the Ink & Switch Research Lab, discusses the concept of Local First software, its limitations, and suitability for different applications. They explore the role of peer-to-peer technology, potential of local-first software, and cross-app collaboration. The chapter delves into the benefits of this approach, examples of successful implementation, and available technologies. The podcast emphasizes the importance of having data live on the user's device.

Peter van Hardenberg discusses the contrast between Industrialists and Academics, the evolution of Ink&Switch, the Hollywood Model in R&D, internal lab infrastructure, and the importance of building a supportive community for idea sharing and project management in a research lab setting.