In this lively discussion, Gordon Brander, a tech innovator, and Peter van Hardenberg, a software expert, join host Jess Martin to debate apps versus files. They explore the complexities of data ownership and the collaboration benefits of apps. The trio dives into historical perspectives and innovative solutions, including decentralized tools like Subconscious. They also tackle the future of file management, security challenges, and the importance of user control in a rapidly evolving digital landscape.

Peter Van Hardenburg, a researcher at Ink&Switch, and Cory Doctorow, an author and activist, dive into the world of self-hosting and local-first software. They discuss the challenges and benefits of self-hosting applications, highlighting privacy implications and technical complexities. Doctorow emphasizes the importance of interoperability, critiquing the influence of tech giants on user autonomy. The conversation also touches on the need for user-friendly tools and the future of technology that prioritizes flexibility, ownership, and meaningful design.

Peter van Hardenberg, director of the Ink & Switch Research Lab, discusses the concept of Local First software, its limitations, and suitability for different applications. They explore the role of peer-to-peer technology, potential of local-first software, and cross-app collaboration. The chapter delves into the benefits of this approach, examples of successful implementation, and available technologies. The podcast emphasizes the importance of having data live on the user's device.

Peter van Hardenberg discusses the contrast between Industrialists and Academics, the evolution of Ink&Switch, the Hollywood Model in R&D, internal lab infrastructure, and the importance of building a supportive community for idea sharing and project management in a research lab setting.

Ink & Switch is a research lab inspired by Bells Labs and Xerox PARC. Peter is lab director, and he joins Adam and Mark to discuss DARPA-hard problems; the Ink & Switch academic-meets-web essay format; and how an independent research lab can fund itself through a spinout flywheel. Plus: Mendel and his peas, Thoreau and his ants, and the Arrakis attitude of the knife. Discuss this episode in the Muse community Follow @MuseAppHQ on Twitter Show notes Peter van Hardenberg @pvh Ink & Switch hydroponic gardening computer vision knight’s movement in chess efficient frontier Peritext Dynamicland Seinfeld calendar Zettelkasten rich text Metamuse episode with Geoffrey Litt Metamuse episode with Linus Lee “Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife […] It’s complete because it’s ended here.” DARPA Richard Hamming National Science Foundation prime number theorum Ben Reinhardt on innovation orgs Bell Labs list of inventions flywheel Gregor Mendel’s experiments with pea plants “It’s not enough to be busy; so are the ants. The question is: what are we busy about?” DARPA autonomous vehicles contest and prize DARPA hard Gordon Brander pre-infusion Yjs the Hollywood model Martin Kleppmann Code for America no plan survives first contact with the enemy “pencils down” peer review citation