Michael Dougherty, co-author of "Shift from Product to People," and Pete Oliver-Krueger, a fellow co-author known for his expertise in people-first agile transformations, dive into the evolution of agile methodologies. They discuss the journey from product-centric approaches to a focus on individuals, emphasizing the importance of authentic relationships in creating effective agile cultures. The conversation explores the use of the Enneagram for understanding team dynamics and highlights the changing landscape of agile in a post-framework world.