Pierre Rochard, co-founder of the Nakamoto Institute, and Michael Goldstein, a key figure in Bitcoin and Austrian economics, dive deep into Bitcoin's role in shaping money and governance. They share insights on how Austrian economics illuminated Bitcoin's potential early on and argue for the importance of hoarding Bitcoin. The conversation also explores speculative attacks, Bitcoin's incentives, and the implications of states adopting Bitcoin for monetary power transformation. Their reflections on past skepticism and evolving perspectives add depth to the discussion.