Michael C. Jackson, a professor of management systems and former dean at Hull University Business School, discusses Critical Systems Thinking. He introduces the EPIC process, a practical framework for leaders to navigate complexity. The conversation critiques traditional MBA tools, highlighting the need for a holistic approach in modern business. Jackson also explores five unique perspectives on systems thinking, stressing the importance of diverse insights in problem-solving. The talk reveals how organizations can better embrace systems methodologies amidst contemporary challenges.