In this engaging discussion, Luke Kemp explores the intricate relationship between credit and bullion through the lens of history. He delves into David Graeber's critiques of traditional debt systems, advocating for 'human economies' that prioritize personal relationships. The conversation uncovers the cyclical nature of money, revealing how historical debt cancellation practices in civilizations like Sumeria have shaped concepts of social justice. Both Kemp and the host challenge societal norms, navigating the complexities of debt, freedom, and the moral responsibilities they entail.