In this engaging discussion, Joscha Bach, an AI researcher specializing in cognitive architectures, and Karan Malhotra, CEO of Nous Research, explore the untapped potential of simulative AI. They dive into interactive AI capabilities, highlighting WebSim's creative tools and alternate realities. The duo also examines the evolving relationship between AI and creativity, touching on ethical considerations and the quest for consciousness in AI systems. With insights into the challenges of language models and community dynamics in AI, the conversation offers a captivating glimpse into the future of technology.