Two veteran climate experts -- analyst Hal Harvey & journalist Justin Gillis -- have released a new book that seeks to home in on the climate policies that offer the most impact for the least effort. I talk with them about learning curves, performance standards, industrial policy, & more.  This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.volts.wtf/subscribe

Justin Gillis, Max Fisher, and Amanda Taub discuss the potential consequences of the US withdrawing from the Paris climate agreement. The episode also covers the production of chocolate in Ira Ghost, the importance of international cooperation, and President Trump's meeting with Secretary of State Tillerson.